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NeoConsSuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 05:47 AM
Original message
Source: NY Times

On Tuesday afternoon, as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton spoke in Washington about the Internet and human liberty, a Columbia law professor in Manhattan, Eben Moglen, was putting together a shopping list to rebuild the Internet this time, without governments and big companies able to watch every twitch of our fingers.

The list begins with cheap, small, low-power plug servers, Mr. Moglen said. A small device the size of a cellphone charger, running on a low-power chip. You plug it into the wall and forget about it.

Almost anyone could have one of these tiny servers, which are now produced for limited purposes but could be adapted to a full range of Internet applications, he said.

They will get very cheap, very quick, Mr. Moglen said. Theyre $99; they will go to $69. Once everyone is getting them, they will cost $29.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/nyregion/16about.html...



Very interesting article.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very interesting. The sooner the better.
Edited on Wed Feb-16-11 06:03 AM by ixion
Because despite all the big talk about freedom and human liberty, our government is in the process of locking down both our lives and the internet.

It is not hard, when everybody is just in one big database controlled by Mr. Zuckerberg, to decapitate a revolution by sending an order to Mr. Zuckerberg that he cannot afford to refuse, Mr. Moglen said.

By contrast, with tens of thousands of individual encrypted servers, there would be no one place where a repressive government could find out who was publishing or reading subversive material.

In response to Mr. Moglens call for help, a group of developers working in a free operating system called Debian have started to organize Freedom Box software. Four students from New York University who heard a talk by Mr. Moglen last year have been building a decentralized social network called Diaspora.
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AnotherDreamWeaver Donating Member (917 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. Where can I get one? (NYTimes wants me to log in and accept cookies...)
So I didn't read the link.
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siligut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Definitely something to consider
Eben Moglen is thinking ahead. He says he needs $500,000 to get this off the ground.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think it's more than a consideration. I think it's inevitable
at least if we want to be able to continue to communicate and exercise Freedom of Speech.
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siligut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Maybe ponder would be a better term?
Edited on Wed Feb-16-11 06:33 AM by siligut
I agree, something must be done in light of the information we have about the invasion of our privacy through the Internet. I meant, I wanted to think more about Moglen's solution and what other measures to take.

Edit to get the guy's name right, geesh.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yep, agreed. Something to ponder, and to work towards.
:toast:
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
Hope it will work with my mac. Excellent point about facebook, can't cede any control to the ptb.
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. like many things in this world
it is a good thing but also a bad thing.

while "regular" people are safe but so are the folks who use the internet as a criminal tool.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. My thoughts exactly. Who was it, HBGary? that was working w/ B of A
to sabotage Wikileaks? It might have been much harder to expose them, or even the government, for that matter. The internet is a tool for people of all stripes...even those who should NOT be protected by their secrets.

We like it when our side has privacy to press for freedom, but it gives the other side freedom to do things that are not for the common good.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Sort of like streets and sidewalks.
Criminals use them too! Oh No!

And look at the crime wave telephones caused...


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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. unlike streets and sidewalks
there are no cops patroling.
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. Actions like this are quite important
If we are to survive the coming storm.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
10. Facinating-basics like not know where/what server your g-mail is, and
that they promise not to be evil....


"Everyone wants a piece of you these days: Google, Facebook, Flickr, Apple, AT&T, Bing. Theyll give you free e-mail, free photo storage, free web hosting, even a free date. They just want to listen in. And you cant wait to let them. Theyll store your stuff, theyll organize your photos, theyll keep track of your appointments, as long as they can watch. It all goes into the Cloud.

How we got here is quite a scary story. But nowhere near as scary as getting out again. Eben Moglen, a Professor of Law and Legal History at Columbia University and the founding director of the Software Freedom Law Center, warned you about privacy and the cloud before. At a public meeting of the Internet Society of New York on February 5, Moglen asked you to consider how much worse things have become since then and explain what you can do to reclaim your freedom in the era of Web 2.0."


Sprint: gave out real location to law enforcement millions of time.....

Telephany is a service of spying... that you have to pay for.

http://www.isoc-ny.org/?p=1338 List to this link.....


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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. Following the tradition of pirate radio
There were underground radio stations that broadcast during the late 1960s... beyond the control of the FCC and the US government.
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Chris_Texas Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
12. B-But....what about the scary bad guys?!?!

There will always be bad guys online. The question is not how do we get rid of them, but rather which bad guys do we prefer. Do we want the occassional drug dealer or terrorist or rapist... or do we want government agents AND the occassional drug dealer, terrorist, and rapist.

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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. 'Making it easier for the people trying to make change, rather than for those trying to oppress.'
Now THIS would be truly 'revolutionary':


Individual encrypted servers, as a small plug-in to the wall. About the size of a cell phone charger and run on a low-power chip. And inexpensive.


Decentralizing the Internet So Big Brother Cant Find You

NYT
By JIM DWYER

February 15, 2011


....

This month, Mr. Moglen, who now runs the Software Freedom Law Center, spoke to a convention of 2,000 free-software programmers in Brussels, urging them to get to work on the Freedom Box.

Social networking has changed the balance of political power, he said, but everything we know about technology tells us that the current forms of social network communication, despite their enormous current value for politics, are also intensely dangerous to use. They are too centralized; they are too vulnerable to state retaliation and control.

In January, investors were said to have put a value of about $50 billion on Facebook, the social network founded by Mark Zuckerberg. If revolutions for freedom rest on the shoulders of Facebook, Mr. Moglen said, the revolutionaries will have to count on individuals who have huge stakes in keeping the powerful happy.

It is not hard, when everybody is just in one big database controlled by Mr. Zuckerberg, to decapitate a revolution by sending an order to Mr. Zuckerberg that he cannot afford to refuse, Mr. Moglen said.

By contrast, with tens of thousands of individual encrypted servers, there would be no one place where a repressive government could find out who was publishing or reading subversive material.

In response to Mr. Moglens call for help, a group of developers working in a free operating system called Debian have started to organize Freedom Box software. Four students from New York University who heard a talk by Mr. Moglen last year have been building a decentralized social network called Diaspora.

Mr. Moglen said that if he could raise slightly north of $500,000, Freedom Box 1.0 would be ready in one year.

We should make this far better for the people trying to make change than for the people trying to make oppression, Mr. Moglen said. Being connected works.



Stripping the centralized weapon of huge databases away from those who want to repress the population, will greatly shift the balance of power back to the people.


This development bears close watching.




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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Links...
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
15. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, NeoConsSuck.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
16. Definitely a threat to the established order.
Edited on Wed Feb-16-11 12:21 PM by ronnie624
Big corporations will not like this, one bit.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. Great idea. Recommended.
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booley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. So where do you get one of these?
I can't log into the article
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BadgerKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Start here: google "wall plug computer" n/t
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
20. I can't imagine that these would remain legal in the US
The Justice Department, the NSA, the FBI and virtually every other law enforcement agency will demand that they be outlawed, and will very likely be granted their wish by Congress.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. You can bet one of the large corps stands ready to erase that idea quickly!!!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. I love this! Hope Moglen stays safe and can make it happen before the bastard TPTB shut him down.
Edited on Wed Feb-16-11 02:59 PM by earth mom
Those jerks won't be happy until they own the internet and turn it into t.v. :puke:
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. Technology Moves Faster Than Totalitarianism
Edited on Wed Feb-16-11 03:56 PM by Yavin4
They're going to have to shut off the power in order to thwart the will of the people.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Even Shutting Off the Power May Not Work
Those tiny servers only draw 5 watts, that could easily run off of batteries, solar power, etc.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. This guy is brilliant.... go to his site at this link and
listen to him talk about creating your own server.....http://www.isoc-ny.org/?p=1338
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. He Also Did a Keynote at FOSDEM Relating All This to What is Going on in the Streets Right Now
This was the keynote speech for a conference of open source developers.

It's on Youtube:


Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNaIji_3xBE

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qol6f-QbrAE

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yHzok5TpJU
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MattSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
29. Hope this guy has heard about kickstarter.com
He'd probably have no problem raising that kind of money there.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
31. I wondered when the people would find a way to fight back
against government intrusion into their lives.

Thanks for the thread, things seem to be turning around, a teeny, tiny bit after a decade of darkness.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
32. Kick back to the top.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
33. Brilliant!
The sooner, the better.
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devils chaplain Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. Count me in, Mr. Moglen. n/t
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
35. Putting aside for the moment my concern over man-in-the-middle attacks...
This is a great plan, albeit somewhat reminiscent of Cory Doctorow's book, Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Someone_Comes_to_Town,_Som...
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