Portland Adventist refuses to respond to emergency in hospital's parking lot,says call ambulance

[villager]

Source: Oregonian

Portland Adventist refuses to respond to emergency in hospital's parking lot, tells police to call ambulance


Portland Adventist Medical Center policy is not to respond to emergencies in its parking lot.
A 61-year-old man suffering from a medical problem drove himself to Portland Adventist Medical Center but crashed into a light pole in the parking lot just after midnight. A bystander flagged down a Portland officer who was in the area investigating an unrelated traffic crash.

The officer found the motorist in the hospital's parking lot unconscious and unresponsive, and began CPR on him.

Another officer ran into the hospital's emergency room to summon medical help. But he was told to call an ambulance.

"He was told by hospital staff that their policy is not to respond to emergencies in their parking lot. They needed to call for an ambulance,'' said Sgt. Pete Simpson, Portland police spokesman.

The officers were stunned. "It's certainly very frustrating for the officers who are not medical professionals in a hospital parking lot, to be told they have to call for an ambulance to help this man. The officers didn't stand there and argue, they continued CPR,'' Simpson said. "But they were in disbelief.''


<snip>

Read more: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/portland_adventist_refuses_to.html

[FreakinDJ]

1. Tax Exempt Non Profit status no doubt

Time to put strings on the commonly used Tax Dodge

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

60. "That's some dodge, that tax dodge 22." - FDJ/Yossarian

It's the best there is.- RiF/Daneeka

[Ken Burch]

101. Uh...how would that explain them refusing to help a guy in their own PARKING LOT?

Do they lose the exemption if they don't require ambulance calls?

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. We are getting more and more of these cases

this is the second in two months, The other was in NY, where a pregnant woman delivered outside an urgent care center. You know the society is going down the crapper when this is tolerated.

[patrick t. cakes]

19. down the crapper indeed

[24601]

52. Yeah, fucking repug states...oops, maybe not. n/t

[wpelb]

141. Oregon is not controlled by the GOPhers

As 24601 appended to the title of his post, Oregon is not a Republican state. It's pretty close to being evenly divided, though. Portland is, like most cities, heavily Democratic (though it's hard to be sure, since the city council is elected on a non-partisan ballot).

[Xithras]

127. We had one of these in 2008

Kaiser Permanente Modesto Medical Center. It's a brand new, state of the art facility. Drunk driver slammed his car into a light pole on the street right in front of the hospital in December 2008. Even though the guy had major injuries, the doctors and staff wouldn't leave the hospital to help him, and the ambulance couldn't take him to their emergency room. He was eventually extracted from the car and taken to another hospital six miles away, where he was pronounced dead on arrival.

An investigation found that the hospital staff did nothing wrong.

[Enthusiast]

134. At least they prevented socialism. nt

[Kennah]

3. It was the Seventh Day, so they rested

[Canuckistanian]

80. LOL

I shouldn't have, but I did.

[hedgehog]

4. We had a similar case here Dec 27.

Minetto is 5 miles north of Fulton, 25 miles north of Syracuse, so you drive through Fulton to get to Syracuse from Minetto.

The local hospital in Fulton was recently closed and converted to an Urgent Care Center.

This woman in Minetto woke up in labor, called her doctor and was sent to a hospital in Syracuse for the delivery.

When they got to Fulton, she knew she wasn't going to make it, so she had her husband pull into the parking lot of the Urgent Care Center as they drove past. Someone went in and grabbed two nurses, who came out and told the woman she could not enter the building and that they had called an ambulance.

When the ambulance arrived maybe 5 or 10 minutes later, they found out that the baby's head had already emerged and assisted the woman to complete the delivery in front of everyone going into the building in the 10 degree weather.

The NYS Health Board says the nurses acted properly.



http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=578652

[Mojorabbit]

31. I almost had to deliver a baby at a gas station

in the 80's. I was going out dancing with another nurse friend after work and we were pulled over by the cops for a broken tailight. When they found out we were nurses one dragged us over to a car where a woman who spoke no English was in labor. The ambulance arrived before the baby crowned, thank goodness. It never occurred to me to not help. Was it for fear of legal repercussions that the nurses refused? Things are so different now.

[james0tucson]

37. .

>Things are so different now.

Things are not so different now. If you, a doctor, stand by and allow someone to die who you could save via your professional expertise, you can certainly lose your license, face an expensive wrongful death suit, and in some cases even go to prison for a very long time for not rendering aid.

[Mojorabbit]

48. I thought I read that

the dept of health agreed with the decision in one of the cases mentioned and I wonder why.

[COLGATE4]

83. That is absolutely incorrect. There is no legal affirmative duty

for a doctor to act. By not doing so s/he does not risk any type of lawsuit, much less 'prison time'.

[truedelphi]

136. In principle, I agree with you. But several other DU posters have

Already pointed to accident cases where the medical personnel inside of the hospitals or clinics were standing by and would not help because of protocols, and after "investigation" they were cleared of any wrong doing.

This society is now run by bureaucrats, and "protocols" designed for the sake or organization have become sacrosanct.

[Horse with no Name]

72. Not every nurse knows how to deliver a baby

and to do so and have something go terribly wrong leaves the nurse and facility wide open for a huge lawsuit...as well as the nurse being reprimanded by the state board for practicing outside her scope of practice.

[Mojorabbit]

82. This is true

I learned it in school in the 70's but I know nursing has greatly changed since the eons ago when I practiced.

[lonestarnot]

70. So if you drag someone into the building they have to treat the someone? In a post on this thread,

said 2 nurses refused the lady having a baby entrance to the building.

[Angry Dragon]

5. One more step down the slippery slope leading to the

Bowels of Hell for this country

When they right the book about the Ancient Civilization
I wonder where this country will rate and what will they
say was the cause of the downfall

[cleanhippie]

34. Religion and corporations.

Culprits one and two.

[Joanne98]

6. I'm beginning to hate doctors!

[Enthusiast]

135. I could tell you stories. nt

[naaman fletcher]

7. It's not their fault

it's the lawyers. I guarantee they have sued everybody to the point that only an ambulance can respond.

[hedgehog]

8. I wonder if that is the case, or if every hospital adminstrator

thinks they'll get sued. I would think the Good Samaritan laws would apply here.

[Hoopla Phil]

68. Good Samaritan laws do not cover professionals engaged in their

profession. They only cover someone that is being a "good samaritan".

[Moonwalk]

111. Not so! The good samaritan law was created because an actual doctor---

--was the one who go sued for helping a man. Good Samaritan laws were created for just such a situation with just such professionals.

[WatsonT]

85. GS laws don't cover professionals

and every hospital administrator should think they'll get sued at some point because it's true.

Medical lawsuits are a lottery to some people.

[liberalhistorian]

90. Yeah, my lifelong best friend's family, who lost her two year ago

tomorrow to a horrible case of egregious and inexcusable medical negligence after she suffered terribly for nearly a year, that's the first thing they thought of, how thrilled they were going to be to "get rich" now. I'm sure they much rather would have had the money than their daughter/sister/aunt back. And I'm sure my other friend was so thrilled that her husband died needlessly due to the careless negligence of an ER doc, her first thought was all the money she could rake in. Uh-huh.

There is no such thing as a frivolous medical malpractice suit. They are VERY expensive to prepare and try, often a hundred thousand dollars or more, with months of preparation work without pay but having to upfront all the fees involved. And NO recoupment of those fees unless the case is won. Most attorneys vet such cases very diligently and if they're not good, solid cases, they won't be filed because it isn't worth it.

And why the fuck shouldn't people who've been badly harmed, or lost relatives, due to medical negligence, get recompense for it? Especially those who become disabled and unable to work because of it. Why should the medical field be free from accountability for its negligence, which is far more common than any of us would ever like to think?

[boppers]

92. "Most attorneys vet such cases very diligently"?

Why would that be required, I wonder?

[WatsonT]

95. Because medical malpractice is a very grave matter

and no one ever sues a hospital frivolously.

[boppers]

102. You missed the sarcasm tag?

..or perhaps, you have confused "frivolously" and "profitably".

[WatsonT]

106. I was replying

as the person you were replying to would have.

He seems to think there is no such thing as a frivolous medical lawsuit.

[AngryAmish]

103. Because it costs between $50,000 to $150,000 to bring a med mal case to trial

For every case you file on you reject about 20. I'm a trial lawyer.

[dotymed]

109. Isn't it almost

impossible to get one medical professional to testify against another one, unless they are "paid, professional witnesses?"

[AngryAmish]

115. Depends

If the guy was doing surgery with a knife and fork then you might get some help. But 9 times out of 10 you have to get someone from out of town. THey don't rat on each other, like cops. And if the doc is good it is $5,000 to $10,000 daily rate, plus airfare and hotel.

[CLANG]

116. Trial lawyer AND a Bears Fan? DO you also kill kittens for fun?

:sarcasm:

[AngryAmish]

123. Need muskie bait, don't I?

[CLANG]

130. Sorry, forgot about that! I find that squirrels work better though...

[amyrose2712]

119. Tell me about it, almost lost my arm, have a huge scar...

was told I have no case. And there was most definitely negligence. Would have just cost too much, was hard to get anyone to testify and I guess the return wouldn't have been enough.

[WatsonT]

93. "There is no such thing as a frivolous medical malpractice suit."

Well that's just plain not true.

Are you sure you want to use your own personal anecdote to state something conclusively for millions of other people you have never and will never meet?

"Why should the medical field be free from accountability"

A troubling assertion that literally no one has made. Ever.

[Zhade]

105. Your last sentence contradicts what you take issue with.

I love unintended irony!

[WatsonT]

107. Um . . no, it doesn't

not at all. Not even close. Wow, not even vaguely if you squint real hard.

It's only contradictory if you think frivolous lawsuits = holding accountable.

Question: do you suppose people can be in favor of legitimate lawsuits against doctors/hospitals who have screwed them over while at the same time being opposed to illegitimate lawsuits against people who have done nothing wrong?

[Goblinmonger]

121. Way to push the RW Tort Reform meme.

Everybody's lawsuit is bullshit except for yours. THAT is the mentality of this country that leads us to tort reform madness.

[WatsonT]

128. Yep, that's clearly what I stated

I said in my first post "all lawsuits ever brought to court are frivolous. Every single one without exception. No I am not being sarcastic I am literally stating that 100% of all lawsuits are frivolous and should be tossed out".


Yep. I said that.

[Goblinmonger]

131. Nope, but you said "Medical lawsuits are a lottery to some people."

Who, exactly, has won the lottery with their medical malpractice lawsuit?

[WatsonT]

132. So you extrapolated 'some' to mean 'all or most'

Interesting.

[Goblinmonger]

133. I'm looking for an actual example from your statement

yet you provide none.

Interesting.

[WatsonT]

138. Well I suppose it could be that doctors are getting radically more incompetent

BTW, our president agrees with me:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sc-dc-0129-medical-malpractice-20110128,0,7681182.story

[Goblinmonger]

139. So it shouldn't be hard to find an example of someone

who "hit the lottery" on a medical malpractice suit. Wow me with one why don't you.

And our president has been wrong about a lot of stuff. This is another instance of him pandering to the right.

But, hey, show me an example or two of these lucky lottery winners.

[nadine_mn]

11. its not the lawyers fault either - they are doing the work for their clients

Its their clients policy - the lawyers are only doing their job. Its so easy to blame lawyers - but they aren't the ones coming up with the policy to nickel and dime people.(well unless they are paid to - again, someone has to hire them to do it)


full disclosure

I went to law school, passed the bar, and chose not practice. But I stilled get my feathers ruffled

[naaman fletcher]

12. you have a point,

but then again the judges are all ex-lawyers, and its the lawyers that staff like 75% of the legislative seats around the country and write the laws that they all get rich off of.

[liberalhistorian]

89. Excuse me, but my husband has never been anywhere near rich,

and neither have the majority of other attorneys I've known. That's a RW talking point myth and I'm fucking sick of it.

[boppers]

94. $58K-117K

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_/_Lawyer/Salary

Upper-middle class to lower-upper class (depending on terminology)

[naaman fletcher]

117. Fine

But has nothing to do with my point. The lawyers may just be representing their clients but they do it under laws written by themselves.

[WatsonT]

108. It's not the clients fault

it's how they were raised. It's the parents' fault.

[LiberalFighter]

13. Lawsuits are not the problem.

[naaman fletcher]

38. so,

you think they are just jerks who didn't feel like walking out to the parking lot to help?

[james0tucson]

36. want a suit?

I guarantee you have a solid case against anyone and everyone in that facility who holds a medical license.

[Horse with no Name]

73. And you would be wrong. n/t

[COLGATE4]

84. What law school did you graduate from? I guarantee you that there

is NO legal cause of action against the people in that facility. (Attorney with 25+ yrs. experience)

[AngryAmish]

104. Ravenswood Hospital

Same thing happened at Ravenswood Hospital in Chicago. They were sued in a case like this and lost. It does not exist anymore.

Now Ravenswood would have gone under eventually because it was a small facility and those don't work anymore. But the massive judgment (or settlement, I forget) did not help.

If you are saying no individual has personal liability, then sure. But think about it. Can you get a hospital administrator to say it was a violation of the standard of care not to go get this guy? Sure. The jury will buy it. Damages is another matter.

[mopinko]

140. the judgement was for $12m.

i can't believe they weren't insured for that.
ravenswood went under because it was landlocked and unable to improve and grow. you couldn't park anywhere. the buildings were antiquated. the dental school, like many others, closed up because flouride works. and the land that it sat on was worth a boodle.

[Ian David]

44. There comes a point where covering your ass becomes criminal indifference. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

81. That's a good way to put it

Either CYA or blind adherence to arcane rules. Either way, common sense was abandoned in that parking lot.

[WatsonT]

87. That could be an interesting case

Criminal indifference for failing to act despite legal restraints preventing you from acting.

[liberalhistorian]

88. Bullshit. I used to be in the legal field and there are

very few "frivolous" cases filed when it comes to medical matters. It's very expensive to prepare a case and those expenses must be paid upfront as the case is in preparation; you can work months or years without getting any money and you don't recoup that unless you win the case. And, often, juries don't like finding doctors guilty no matter how strong the evidence against them is. Most cases aren't filed unless they have firm chance of winning; they will usually have other doctors review the medical records and sign affidavits attesting to medical negligence. And medical personnel should damn well be held responsible for the very real harm and/or unnecessary death caused by negligence and it happens a helluva lot more than any of us would ever like to imagine. For some reason, the medical field is one group that people don't like holding acountable, no matter how much harm they may cause.

Tomorrow is the second anniversary of the death of my nearly lifelong best friend from an egregious and inexcusable case of medical negligence and malpractice; she suffered horribly for nearly a year before dying. All because a medical resident couldn't perform a simple fucking bone biopsy (comprehensive blood test), a very common test, without going in the wrong place, nicking an artery and allowing internal bleeding of arterial blood for nearly a day, KNOWING that that was what happened, failing to do anything about it and the attending physicians, her supervisors, failing to do anything about it. Another friend lost her husband in his early forties when an ER doc sent him home after dismissing his symptoms as heartburn when the tests CLEARLY showed he'd had a heart attack and needed immediate care; he died of another heart attack the next day. Another case I personally know of, a woman lost her teenage daughter to a sudden illness because the ER doc, who already had a bad reputation and was moved from hospital to hospital by the company he worked for, hardly did any tests claiming that she was just "playing possum" and didn't check on her or have nurses check on her for hours, hours that would have made a difference. I could go on and on and on. And you're telling me that they shouldn't be held accountable?? BULLSHIT.

[Kceres]

9. Profit and health care do not go together. Never have, never will. n/t

[npk]

21. It has little to do with profit and everything to do with liability. N/t

[liberation]

26. liability impacts profit tremendously

so yes, it has everything to do with profit. As always.

[Abq_Sarah]

33. Right

Because that money has to come from somewhere since the magic money fairies are no longer dropping it from the skies. So, does it eat out profit or is it subtracted from budgeted operating expenses in the case of a government owned facility? The hospital and the employees take a hit, either way.

[RufusTFirefly]

78. +1 You are absolutely right.

It's profit not lawyers that lies at the heart of our horribly inhumane health care system.

[CTyankee]

47. Thank you! Of course, and I have said this again and again. You cannot subject health care

to the capitalist market. That market is designed to enhance profit and you cannot profit by ensuring sick people.Ipso facto.

Why do people even believe anything diffent?

[Still Blue in PDX]

10. That's policy at every hospital I've worked for.

The explanation I've been given is that the "immediate responders" are equipped to handle an emergency outside. The emergency department personnel handle patients in the ER. Stupid, I know, but that's the way it is.

If the ER staff took off to help a person outside they could be disciplined for leaving their workplace. Again: Stupid, I know, but that's the way it is.

:shrug:

[hedgehog]

16. I suspect every hospital show on TV has shown the ER staff

running out the doors to aid someone who has collapsed or been dumped in the parking lot. So much for veracity

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. That happens, IN OTHER COUNTRIES

[Still Blue in PDX]

99. Actually, my dad coded while sneaking a cigarette outside the ER at the VAMC in Portland.

They resuscitated him.

My dad was actually DNI/DNR at the time, but he wasn't so far gone that he didn't find it humorous that the habit the docs said was killing him had saved his life, at least temporarily.

I don't know if it was ER staff or paramedics dispatched by the ER. Whoever it was, I was happy to have my dad around a little longer. That was in 1993.

[amyrose2712]

120. I've seen that happen quite a few times at ERs.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

67. There is actually a federal law that they must help anyone within 250 yards of the property.

at least that's what they said on the news this evening. :shrug:

[somone]

75. Yep, it's in the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/790053-overview

Persons covered by the "250-yard rule"

In addition to persons who come to the ED requesting treatment, EMTALA rules also apply to any person who presents on the hospital campus and requests or requires emergency services. Known as the "250-yard rule," the hospital campus is defined below2 :

* Campus means the physical area immediately adjacent to the provider's main buildings, other areas and structures that are not strictly contiguous to the main buildings but are located within 250 yards of the main buildings, and any other areas determined on an individual case basis by the HCFA regional office, to be part of the provider's campus" (42 CFR 413.65).
* The "250-yard rule" obligates hospital staff to recognize when a visitor, another employee, or anyone on the hospital campus, is in need of a medical screening examination. This includes, "Anyone whom a layperson would believe, based on the individual's appearance and behavior, that the individual needs examination or treatment."
* Campus typically includes the parking lot, sidewalks, driveways, and inpatient and outpatient areas.
* The campus does not include nonmedical businesses such as retail business, private physicians' offices, or other medical entities that have a separate Medicare identity.

[boppers]

96. So, what's the argument for their policy, then?

Ignorance of the EMTALA?

[boppers]

98. Nevermind.

See #51, they did respond.

[forty6]

14. I guess the "first do no harm" part of the oath no longer applies

to hospitals if they so choose.

In which case, I see no reason to keep those hosptials open in the USA. Threaten to close them, and then we'll see who changes their stupid policies first, and which ones choose to be shut down for violating that oath.

And in my perfect world, when a corporate hospital lawyer needs medical attention, we'll let another corporate hospital lawyer deliver it.

[AsahinaKimi]

28. Could be thats changed.. now its

FIRST DO NO HARM, AFTER you get paid. :sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[jdadd]

74. Actually the new oath dosn't even say that....

I was surprised while attending my nieces medical school graduation,there is now,a new oath.....http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_modern.html

:wtf:

[abelenkpe]

15. good to know

next time there's an emergency I'll call an ambulance rather than attempt to deliver myself or loves ones to the emergency room.

Still, you have to be a special kind of heartless a$$ to refuse to help someone desperate for medical attention in the parking lot of a hospital. I would not be able to live with myself if I was forced by protocol to not help another in such a situation. Prolly, why I chose a profession where such responsibility does not exist.

[hedgehog]

17. You know - I recall going into an ER to the desk and telling them I needed

a stretcher for my daughter. I suspected correctly that she had a ruptured spleen and drove her to the hospital. Looking back, I should have called an ambulance in the first place rather than try to move her myself.

[LiberalLovinLug]

18. That would be unheard of in a country with universal medical care

Like here in Canada. You can go to any hospital emergency at any time and later see any doctor for follow up. Its the law. Every hospital whether public or private is bound by this.

As far as everyday, if you are below a certain income you pay nothing, if you are working you pay no more than about $60 per month depending in which province you live in. Medical care is a right, not a privilege. After having that right since 1967, it is unfathomable for Canadians to imagine a country not believing this.

But the MSM corporate press did such a good disinformation job, or downright blackout, on our system that it, or any similar single payer system, didn't have a snowball chance in hell. I was so sad and frustrated for you all watching the NON medical debate going on there in the media last year.

[Abq_Sarah]

39. In 2005

A gentleman named Ralph Vogel of Kelowna BC was letting a homeless man stay in his motor home. Vogel and his wife became concerned when they couldn't wake him up so they drove him to Kelowna General Hospital and went inside requesting assistance. They were told to dial 911 and wait for an ambulance in the parking lot, outside the Hospital.

[24601]

54. Bullshit - when we lived in the UK, a child was denied a stem-cell

transplant because she had already had her one chance - even though doctors agreed a 2nd attempt was a reasonable course. By the time a private donor came forward, her cancer had progressed too far and it failed. NHS sucked Donkeys - our assigned "family GP" was a shrink who didn't believe in treating fevers as it was "nature's way." We bypassed NHS and took our 3-month old an hour away to base to be seen by an Air Force Doctor who actually knew something about medicine. This was in the mid 1990s.

[SharonAnn]

77. Hmmm, here she wouldn't get even one chance unless she had insurance and approval

[boppers]

97. ... and it might be denied afterwards as "pre-existing"....

...and her family could be sued into bankruptcy for the resulting costs.

[npk]

20. This is a CYA country we live in

Everyone, including hospital admin are basically trying to do everything they can to limit their exposure to law suits. This is what happens when businesses are sued over and over again, eventually they stop going out of their way or out of policy to help you. It's the same thing we now see from bystanders who are reluctant to help. Because if things go wrong, they are afraid they will be sued.

[Goblinmonger]

122. You make it sound like suing a med mal case is

all rainbows and butterflies. It costs A LOT of money to sue like that. The RW would like you to believe that we are a sue happy nation and that doctors get sued for putting the wrong color band aid on, but that just isn't the case.

[forty6]

22. When we call the ambulance service in my area for a 3 mile trip to the ER, the cost is..

$650.

I drive my neighbor, if I can, (and only charge him a bottle of scotch)...(just kidding)

[rustydog]

25. rather than call 911, a homeowner drove a landscaper to the hospital

after he fell 20' on her property. He died. I've seen people racing in the ED driveway with loved ones inside who are near death or appeared to be near death. An ambulance is their best bet. They can run red lights, they have radio contact with a physician, they have meds on board...

[MikeW]

23. unbelievable they let the man die .... hope they get sued anyway

[DCKit]

24. They'll be surprised as shit when random strangers punch them in the schnozz. nt

[krispos42]

29. Gee, I wonder what would have happened...

... if one of the ER nurses and ER docs got jumped in the parking lot and beaten to a bloody pulp within site of the sliding doors.

Bets on his or her co-workers calling for an ambulance?

Anybody?

:banghead:

[brer cat]

30. Maybe it was because I worked in a community, rural hospital...

but hardly a day went by that we didn't go into the parking lot to help someone into the ER, with wheelchair or stretcher. We also on rare occasions responded and started CPR on patients who collapsed in the parking lot or in a private car on the way to the hospital. By law we couldn't turn away a woman in labor and even though we didn't deliver babies at our hospital, kept the necessary equipment on hand in the ER to handle an emergency delivery. I can see that Urgent Care Centers may not have the set up to do that, nor the trained personnel to handle it.

[Curmudgeoness]

32. Makes me wonder, does the hospital also own the ambulance company?

That ambulance ride to the door would have cost a fortune.

After all these years, and all horror I have heard about, why do I still get shocked?

[Lasher]

41. I don't think that's what's going on here.

If you don't have insurance, ambulance drivers are directed to take you elsewhere. If you drive yourself, their 'parking lot' policy is designed to keep you out - like it did in this case.

[Curmudgeoness]

43. It has been my assumption that in a life and death situation,

you are taken to the closest ER. Besides, in cases like this, how do they know if you have insurance or not? You can't tell them, and they can't check it out fast enough when they are only concerned with keeping you alive and getting you treatment.

[Lasher]

56. Ambulance drivers do their best get your insurance information.

They relay this information to the hospital before they arrive. If you show up by yourself in the parking lot, the hospital doesn't know if you have insurance or not. That was my point. If you are alone without an insurance card, and if you collapse into a coma in front of an ambulance, I don't believe they would take you to the hospital discussed in the OP. But I don't know this for a fact, I'm speculating.

In September I suffered a serious trauma. The 911 dispatcher asked about my insurance, and asked a number of other time consuming questions before they would send an ambulance. My wife told them that was taking so long that she thought it would be better to just drive me herself. The dispatcher said that would probably be best and that's just what Mrs. Lasher did.

BTW, I have good insurance. And ambulance service is free to all residents of my county. They will bill insurance companies but will not charge an individual, regardless of insurance status.

Around here they take you to the best ER in the area for what ails you (trauma center if you've been shot, cardiac place for heart attack, etc), unless you give them another preference.

[Curmudgeoness]

63. Wow, I am glad that you obviously made it to the hospital

without problems. I am amazed that the dispatcher would tell you to drive yourself instead of sending an ambulance.

I had one time where I had to call an ambulance, and I had no problems at all. I feel sorry for you for the problems.

[Lasher]

76. Thank you, I'm lucky to have had my wife and daughter with me.

In this rural area we can often drive ourselves to a hospital more quickly by skipping the wait for an ambulance to arrive.

[liberalhistorian]

91. I have never, ever heard of a 911 operator

asking about insurance status. Ever.

[Lasher]

110. It happened to me.

This is firsthand.

[cleanhippie]

35. From their website under "Mission"...

reflecting God's love by serving our patients, guests and each other with compassion, dignity and respect;



Well, some might say that they are doing exactly that...or not.

[Ian David]

42. If he was in the parking lot, he wasn't a guest yet.

You're not a guest until you're inside.

That's how they know god wants you to be helped.

And if he wasn't a 7th Day Adventist, he wasn't one of "each other."

[Vinca]

46. Except for the poor slobs who wrap themselves around light poles in our parking lot.

[grahamhgreen]

40. Medicare for all, please.

[area51]

125. +1

It amazes me that some people think this is a civilized country. It's not.

[bbinacan]

45. It is the fear of lawsuits. Plain and Simple.

Somewhat similar. I had a head injury and the local hospital didn't have a neurology staff. They wanted me to go to a trauma hospital in Pittsburgh. I said fine, what time should I be there and how's the parking? The Doc said that I was going tonight and that I would be strapped down on a board, with neck collar, etc. I came back to my bed in the ER to see a perplexed EMS crew. They asked where I had been and how could I be walking. I said that I walked out for a smoke. They apologized as that strapped me down. Once in the 3/4 ton ambulance, I asked what the deal was. They replied that Allegheny General would not accept ANY patients that weren't immobilized upon delivery. I asked, what if this happened in their parking lot, he said that it would be the same. He ended with "damned lawyers" and I agreed.

[Goblinmonger]

124. I hope you never, ever need a lawyer.

But if you do, I hope they read the post by you and don't take your case.

[bbinacan]

137. I got it covered.

My brother's a lawyer. :headbang:

[BrklynLiberal]

49. "The best health care system in the world??"....what a joke!!!

[RufusTFirefly]

79. Worse than a joke. It's an obscenity. n/t

[obxhead]

112. It is the best.

If your an insurance co executive, high paid doctor, or otherwise elite enough to get the best health care the world has to offer.

For the other 99% of us it is no where near the best. It is one of the cruelest though.

[Paka]

50. It's all about money.

Can't blame the doctors. It's the hospital admin folks who are part of the whole HMO system and that includes the ambulances. If you don't call an ambulance, someone stands to lose a thousand bucks. How dare you drive yourself to the hospital.

[AlbertCat]

53. It's all about money.

Bingo!

If an ambulance is not involved, somebody can probably sue... or something.

[Moosepoop]

51. Statement From Adventist Medical Center:

http://www.kptv.com/news/26825631/detail.html

...
2. We do NOT have a policy against responding to emergencies in our parking lot. In fact, we always call 911 and send our own staff into these situations whether they are gun shot wounds, heart attacks, or any other medical emergency. We have done so many times in the past year alone.

3. In this specific situation, we would like to clarify the facts:

--A Portland Police Officer informed us of a car accident in our garage that we believe occurred at least 20 minutes prior. We advised the officer immediately call 911 because EMS have the mobile equipment to respond to a car accident.

--Before the officer left our Emergency Department, our charge nurse directed a paramedic to go immediately to the scene. She also dispatched our first responders, who are trained security staff, to go outside to the scene of the accident. When the security staff arrived, the police were already doing CPR.

The nursing supervisor also ran out to the garage, according to the statement.

[lefty2000]

55. Then this whole thread was

much ado about nothing.

[Lasher]

59. Not really.

Looks like somebody's lying, either the police or the hospital personnel. That alone is noteworthy.

[arcane1]

66. "EMS have the mobile equipment to respond to a car accident"

Makes sense to me :shrug:

[lib2DaBone]

57. It's all about law suits... this is SOP..ER Staff will not respond outside the doors....

Patients in distress need C-Spine, backboard.. and proper package and triage.

Medical personnel rushing out the door of the ER into the Parking Lot can not possibly carry all the equipment they need to properly stabilize a patient.

Make one mistake or omission.. and the attorneys will have a field day.

Yes.. it's all about the lawsuits... no question.

[lobodons]

58. So this is the America we live in today?

Not much to be proud of.

[Taverner]

61. Why is everyone upset over a Christian Policy made by Christians?

Don't you know - its one of their commandments - no services done in parking lot.

And think of the poor EMT companies that are not getting paid because that man was too lazy to go into the hospital, or call an ambulance!



oh, and just in case....:sarcasm:

[happyslug]

62. You had rules like this 50 years ago, before the "Crisis" of Medical Malpractice

My mother was always WHEELED to the curb in a Wheelchair after she gave birth to her children EVEN IF SHE COULD WALK. Furthermore the Hospital demanded that she be picked up in a Automobile or a cab, she could NOT walk home nor take the Streetcars (Streetcars were still working then). This was true even when she went to the Hospital for something OTHER then giving birth, all of the local Hospital had that rule.

My family always suspected the Cab Companies insisted on it during the 1920s and 1930s and kept doing so till the Hospital finally permitted people to walk away (and most people had cars).

I suspect the same when it come to ambulances, most are tied in with Hospitals and the Hospitals can charge an extra fee if one is used. Those fees add up, way more then any potential legal liability. Furthermore if it is NOT an ambulance tied in with the Hospital that take you to the Hospital, the Ambulance once it has delivered you needs new "equipment" i.e. new sheets, new pills, to be sanitized etc, which has to be done in the Hospital so even such private Ambulances produce money for the Hospital.

It is these fees the Hospital wants in such cases NOT any concern about liability.

[MasonJar]

64. What kind of policy is that? And even so, where is their humanity?

Is this hospital related to Seven Day Adventists? Its tax exemption should be revoked.

[RedCloud]

65. Care giver taketh away. The power of God. How ennobling it mus feel.

[ladjf]

69. America is turning into one of the meanest Countries in the World.

Somehow, the religious in this Country seem to have habit of reversing the primary rules of ethics.
Why do they do that?

[Horse with no Name]

71. This is actually the "new standard of care"

At the hospital I worked at, if a visitor dropped dead of a heart attack in the middle of the hallway --we were to call 911 and NOT TOUCH THE VISITOR.
I don't agree with this, at all.
It goes against everything we were ever taught.

[snort]

86. What a fuckwad country we are turning in to.

Just unpleasant really.

[Ken Burch]

100. BTW, the man was having a heart attack, and died.

If they'd just gone out to the parking lot with a gurney and run him in, he might well have lived.

His widow needs to sue the living SHIT out of Adventist.

Did they somehow forget the words "first, do no harm"?

[LynneSin]

113. There are 2 hospitals in my town and I live closer to the catholic owned one

I have in my wallet a request that I not be sent there for any emergencies. I do NOT want religious practiced with my medicine!

[mimitabby]

114. hello? the other side of the story!

http://www.kptv.com/news/26825631/detail.html

this is the hospital's statement.

[Goblinmonger]

126. You mean nasty lawyers haven't ruined this country? n/t

[Sentath]

129. This Is an important perspective

Makes the timeline look a little different.


Its times like these that I wish I could vote up a post...

[earcandle]

118. more insanity by the 1984 language crowd.. do as you are told.

[nonpareil]

142. New information in this story

Police chief: hospital tried to aid dying man PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Portland's police chief has stepped back from criticism officers leveled at a Portland hospital where a 61-year-old man was dying in a parking lot last week and officers were told to call 911.

Chief Mike Reese appeared briefly at a press conference Tuesday with Portland Adventist Hospital officials who said medical workers did everything they could or should have done — except communicate well with the officers. <snip> http://www.katu.com/news/local/116258189.html

[tammywammy]

143. kick for your post.