U.S. Discusses Plan for Mubarak to Quit (Immediately. Obama admin discussing w/ Egyptian officials)

[Turborama]

Source: NYT

By HELENE COOPER and MARK LANDLER
Published: February 3, 2011

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is discussing with Egyptian officials a proposal for President Hosni Mubarak to resign immediately, turning over power to a transitional government headed by Vice President Omar Suleiman with the support of the Egyptian military, administration officials and Arab diplomats said Thursday.

Even though Mr. Mubarak has balked, so far, at leaving now, officials from both governments are continuing talks about a plan in which, Mr. Suleiman, backed by Sami Enan, chief of the Egyptian armed forces, and Field Marshal Mohamed Tantawi, the Defense Minister, would immediately begin a process of constitutional reform.

The proposal also calls for the transitional government to invite members from a broad range of opposition groups, including the banned Muslim Brotherhood, to begin work to open up the country’s electoral system in an effort to bring about free and fair elections in September, the officials said.

Senior administration officials said that the proposal is one of several options under discussion with high-level Egyptian officials around Mr. Mubarak, though not him directly, in an effort to convince him to step down now.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world/middleeast/04diplomacy.html

[Hissyspit]

1. Reuters: FLASH: NY Times reporting that the Obama administration is discussing a proposal with Egypt

Reuters: FLASH: NY Times reporting that the Obama administration is discussing a proposal with Egyptian officials for Mubarak to resign immediately

[tekisui]

2. knr.

[xchrom]

3. He's our puppet -- it's the least we could do.

Kid kiss hug hug -- hosni!

[TBF]

4. Well after he whined on TV about wanting to leave they had better help him out -

no matter how much they'd rather prop him up for the next 8 months.

[Arrowhead2k1]

5. With the Vice-President taking power, I'm afraid even that is not going to cut it.

The entire government needs to be toppled and replaced by representives of the people.

[Matilda]

6. Agree - Sulieman was Mubarak's choice, foisted on the people.

So how much can he be trusted?

[Bragi]

17. If he's just a caretaker, shouldn't be a dealbreaker /nt

[wisteria]

19. And, who would they be? n/t

[wisteria]

20. At some point the protesters have to recognize they can not get all the demands they want.

People are going to start turning on them, if it appears they refuse to compromise and demand everything their way. The VP was appointed not because his is Mubarak's man, but because he can actually run the country and command the military.

[David__77]

24. Of course they can.

All they have to do is link up with those who are in a position to launch a credible armed struggle. The arms are there for the taking, and the lower ranking officers are sympathetic. People certainly needn't accept the US's choice for leader.

[Codeine]

29. Those in a position to offer credible armed struggle

are likely the Islamists. Nothing good will come of strengthening their hand -- the movement should stay secular.

[defendandprotect]

31. What? VP is the guy who coordinated US/Egypt TOTURE/Rendition program!!

The protesters have one demand -- that the dictator, Mubarak and his regime, leave --

[bread_and_roses]

41. I was in a meeting last night on Gov's draconian budget with someone saying same about NYers

In this case, he was an elderly, gentle soul unwittingly acting in the interests of our Oligarch Overlords by being "reasonable." "We can't say 'no cuts' to education." "We can't just demand what we want."

But why not? For one thing, which child are we going to sacrifice to give tax cuts to the rich? (Our new "Democratic" Gov does not want to extend a tax on the rich - this when he's talking about draconian cuts to education and health care and threatening to lay off thousands of teachers and public sector workers - like that will help our economy, right.)

For another, it is simply poor tactics. Once you concede that some of us must suffer to keep the rich rich, you've lost. Then, you are just bargaining over the scraps.

We have the absolute right to demand full funding for education and health care. And the Egyptians have the absolute right to demand that all these cronies and beneficiaries of the torturing Dictatorship go.

And the VP was appointed in the hope that the people would be satisfied with a cosmetic change, go home, and nothing would really change except the face at the top. The protesters are right to reject such a blatant attempt at manipulation.

And NYers should not accept that one single child will suffer so the rich can get even richer.

On edit, and Obama and his advisers know perfectly well that this is what's going on, and are simply playing out the usual agenda of Empire trying to keep their hands on the reins - it has nothing to do with any concern for the Egyptian people. We've been quite content to call the Regime our "good friend" as long as it served US interests - no matter that it acted with savage brutality to its own people. They don't care how many of the people suffer and die - all they care about is serving their Corporate Masters, and all they fear is real democracy.

[defendandprotect]

30. Suleiman coordinated torture program -- US rendition in Egypt!!

[Proletariatprincess]

7. I'm uncomfortable with this....

The USA should just bow out. It has no right to interfere in any way....especially now.
I don't trust that the USA is an honest broker here. It may be attempting to put in another puppet government. Even if Obama means well, there is no reason for the people of the Middle East to believe it and they won't. Just stay out of it!

[peachykeen]

14. Agreed. We need to keep out of this

They need to drive their own fate and have full accountability for their future.

[AnOhioan]

8. Yeah, put Mubarak's torturer in power...sounds like a plan

[decidedlyso]

9. If Suleiman takes over, things will get worse--not better. Those protesters

will be rounded up and put in prison--or worse.

[Turborama]

10. John King on CNN right now trying ot take credit for this news and standing up for McCain

I swear he keeps getting so much more and more egotistical he cares less and less about expounding his Neocon-wingnuttery.

I really hate the way he slurps like a lizard when he speaks, too.

[Matariki]

11. Free and fair elections - and we'll donate the voting machines...?

[Turborama]

12. LOL, good one. And the technicians from Ohio, just to show them how it's done. n/t

[wisteria]

21. At some point there needs to be some trust. n/t

[Matariki]

23. At some point there needs to be some accountability.

Blind trust there's been no shortage of.

[defendandprotect]

33. Trust has to be earned -- and certainly Mubarak has shown who he truly is ...

over the last 30 years -- and with his faked "supporters" vicious attacks on

the protesters in the square!

[defendandprotect]

32. +1000%

[harun]

43. lol, it's about to start raining voting machines in Cairo.

[Fokker Trip]

13. Mubarak is the classic Mafia boss type. Its all about what sort of deal he can get.

Good news though, Obama could do really well from this if he can orchestrate Mubaraks exit.

Bush would already be in Cairo helping to torture the pro-democracy protesters.

[Zhade]

42. You're kidding, right? Obama is talking about installing the current regime's chief torturer!

NT!

[Tx4obama]

15. K & R n/t

[Bragi]

16. Please let it be so!

This would be fabulous if true. I've been an Obama critic on this, and still think it could have happened two days ago, but if this deal is true, then I give full credit to Obama for pulling it off.

This deal would eliminate the need for any the violence tomorrow, and turn tomorrow into an amazing festive, liberation day!

Hope it is so.

[wisteria]

18. I don't like it because the Muslim Brotherhood is involved. n/t

[Bragi]

22. I don't think they can be summarily excluded from any process

They should not control the process, but they need to be part of deliberations that are supposed to lead to democratic reform.

[David__77]

25. We should have no say in if they lead or do not lead any process.

It is the most popular party in Egypt certainly. Others may disagree. If there are elections, I think that assessment will be correct.

[Turborama]

26. Is that because you're concerned about Muslims being elected in the new democracy? n/t

[comsymp]

27. Dunno if this will help ease your concerns

as I'm not sure how much info you have on MB vs how much propaganda is out there, but it's an interesting read - think it's been posted around here before, but worth bringing up again:

The Egyptian Brotherhood renounced violence years ago, but its relative moderation has made it the target of extreme vilification by more radical Islamists. Al Qaeda’s leaders, Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri, started their political lives affiliated with the Brotherhood but both have denounced it for decades as too soft and a cat’s paw of Mubarak and America.

[defendandprotect]

34. Only 20% of Egyptians support the Muslim Brotherhood ... it is no threat ...

and they very early on agreed that they would stand back with other political

groups and let the Egyptian citizens decide on a government/leader --

[Turborama]

35. Coptic Christians have even voted for them out of frustration

Not sure if you've seen this yet but the first two parts are about how Mubarak came to power and the last two parts are about modern Egypt. I think it's part 4 which mentions the Coptic Christians voting for the Mulim Brotherhood.

Links to it here (this one has it split into 4 different parts): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x290240#298452

And here (this is a full version): http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x549034

[comsymp]

36. BTW Just want to give you an attaboy and thanks

Been meaning to say this for several days - You've really been on top of this story, and have added immesurably to the discussion. I, for one, really appreciate your contributions.

[Turborama]

40. Thank *you*, much appreciated!

Responses like yours are a lovely surprise and make it all seem worthwhile.

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

37. Didn't know that ... but Egyptians want a new Constitution and an end to any gender

discrimination or discrimination vs Christians/Muslims -- and would

probably be a great idea if they also got Separation of Church & State --



would be great if we did, too!! :sarcasm:

[harun]

44. Liberty isn't always what YOU want.

[defendandprotect]

28. Meanwhile, looks like Mubarak is setting up for a huge attack on protesters overnight ... ???

Does Mubarak really think that he can murder these protesters and walk away --

or stay in power?

[Matilda]

38. He probably could - been doing it for decades.

I would guess it all depends on the army - it's because they've refused to fire on the protesters that the people are still there. Now if they were to turn on the "supporters" (i.e. secret police) and fire on them, even Mubarak would have to see the writing on the wall.

The only negative side to that would be if it were to lead to a military coup.

But it's very interesting that the army has been so restrained until now - this isn't usually the case. They almost always back the established power. I have heard in the news that they really hate Mubarak's son, and I guess they figure that Mubarak's days are numbered anyway, so they're making sure that Gamal won't inherit.

[bread_and_roses]

39. Here's Fisk on Suleiman

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-egypt-death-throes-of-a-dictatorship-2198444.html

In the pantomime world of Mubarak himself – and of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton in Washington – the man who still claims to be president of Egypt swore in the most preposterous choice of vice-president in an attempt to soften the fury of the protesters – Omar Suleiman, Egypt's chief negotiator with Israel and his senior intelligence officer, a 75-year-old with years of visits to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and four heart attacks to his credit. How this elderly apparatchik might be expected to deal with the anger and joy of liberation of 80 million Egyptians is beyond imagination. When I told the demonstrators on the tank around me the news of Suleiman's appointment, they burst into laughter.