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OneAngryDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:23 PM
Original message
Loughner's former girlfriend speaks
Source: KGUN9

TUCSON, Ariz. (KGUN9-TV) Jared Lee Loughner is described as a loner. By all accounts, he stayed away from just about everyone, including his own neighbors. But, at Mountain View High School, it seems things were just a little bit different.

"He was a very nice kid. He was very, very intelligent. He would help me out with like my math and that's how it started off," explained Ashley Figueroa. She told KGUN9 she dated Jared Lee Loughner in high school.

"He would lose me in conversations that we would have. He was very opinionated about his opinions, I guess you could say .He's very strongly opinionated. I always used to tell him he should be a lawyer because he always used to argue with people, the pros and cons. He used big words. I couldn't keep up with him," said Figueroa.

"What sort of things would set him off that way? KGUN9 asked. "Things about the government, things about politics...anything that pretty much had to do with the government." she said.



Read more: http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13834898



Reading on, we find out that Ms. Figueroa is of the view that Jared is (GASP!) "faking everything. I think he's planned it, planned for sometime."

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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, I'm very opinionated about my opinions as well.
Anyone who actually believes that Loughner is not mentally ill and is faking it, having planned this all for some time (evidently years) should seek mental health assistance themselves.
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OneAngryDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Not so fast...
One most consider whether or not eliminationist ideaology is a de facto mental illness, first, elocs.

And I am not 100% sure that it is.

If he viewed liberals and democrats as existential threats to him, and all he held dear (as do an awful lot of conservatives), he also viewed himself as a 'victim' and, therefore, killing democrats and liberals, in his mind, could have been an act of self-defense.

Obviously, the ideaology of elimination is wrong and evil... but is it a mental illness?
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If you know something about mental illness, schizophrenia in particular
(I don't know if you do or not) then this clearly looks like that is what this is.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, swims like a duck then although I am not a wildlife expert I would feel safe in saying it is a duck. A wildlife expert might be better in knowing exactly what kind of a duck it may be, but it is a duck.
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OneAngryDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. What I do know...
What I do know is that a few of the more unhinged modern-day American conservatives have targetted liberal democrats for political assassination (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... ), and they have cited the danger liberal democrats pose to the nation as their justification.

PS: I never said Loughner wasn't loopey - just not certifiably so.

But then again, maybe he is both crazy, and also capable of planning this particular attack while simultaneously fully aware of what he is doing and justified by an eliminationist purpose.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. There are other conditions besides schizophrenia
that can produce similar symptoms.

Some organic psychoses can look a lot like this.

But whether or not it's schizophrenia, I think he qualifies as nuts (to use the technical term).
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. My teenaged goddaughter with schizophrenia staying with me loves to be called "nuts".
She just can't get enough of that technical term. Close seconds are "crazy" and "looney".
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I acknowledge my insensitivity.
Sorry.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Funny you should mention that
The possibility has arisen that Loughner is/was a member of the sovereign citizen "movement."

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-repo...

These folks have a history of getting in trouble with law enforcement, especially federal law enforcement, as one might expect of folks who deny the authority of the government. They stand up in federal court and deny that the judge has any authority over them, noting that their name appears in ALL CAPS in the charges, and that it therefore refers to a fictional legal entity, and not the actual persons themselves. Federal judges who are not familiar with this, who expect deference from folks in their courtrooms, say to themselves "WTF?" and often order psychological evaluations. At this point, the psychologist doing the evaluation will find that, though the person has crazy ideas, they are not actually crazy (the federal standard for insanity is a tough one to meet in any event).

In other words, certain varieties of right wingers have ideas so far outside the mainstream that they are routinely mistaken for insane by the legal system, until they get to the piont at which they encounter someone familiar with the sovereign citizen movement who takes the time to explain everything to the court.

This does not mean, of course, that this young man is not schizophrenic or have some other mental disease or defect: there have been mentally unstable sovereign citizens, as one might imagine. I'm not qualified to make that determination in any event. The age of onset for a variety of mental illness happens to coincide with the age of onset of a variety of forms of political extremism, too, though. I think it's best to reserve judgment. The only thing we can say with a high degree of certainty is that he is almost certainly criminally responsible for his acts, because he evidences an understanding of the nature of the wrongfulness of those acts.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. He could be mentally ill AND planning it
Paranoid schizophrenics are perfectly capable of planning things.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Certainly, the two are not mutually exclusive. Planning over a very long time
would likely be problematic.

My 19 year old goddaughter who is living with me and is a paranoid schizophrenic is capable of planning things when she is not doing well and even when she was in the midst of a psychotic break she could plan things. To be mentally ill does not mean you are stupid, but you are operating under a different set of conditions than those who are not mentally ill.
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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. am i the only shallow duer that immediately wanted to know what she looked like...




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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. she forgot her shirt!
what's that about?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. She is in Tucson, Arizona. It may be warmer there than where you are.
It is quite warm in Los Angeles today.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Yes. The rest of us aren't so shallow.
:evilgrin:

Are you kidding? I was DYING to know what she looked like! Plus, there's another one they talked to, so it would be much appreciated if you'd provide photo-documentation of her, too. That one (the other) said she thinks he as a mental illness.

I know this one went to high school with him, not sure about the other. Wonder if he had any relationships post-high school? He's 22, after all. :shrug:

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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. here's the other GF..
hi gateley,

i think this one was more serious than the one above. must have been slim pickens in that H.S. for these girls to date him, although this one said he wasn't a weirdo till after she dumped him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/13/jared-loughner...

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. The two stories about Loughner are very different.
Edited on Thu Jan-13-11 04:27 PM by JDPriestly
The first young woman seemed to know about his political views. I had a sense that the woman interviewed on CBS knew Loughner when he was younger than the other young woman interviewed in the clip on the OP.

They have very different opinions about Loughner's family. I suspect child abuse played a role here.

I posted on that earlier:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/JDPriestly/18...
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Thanks -- this one certainly rings more true. I was thinking, while reading of the
other one, that wow, it's been YEARS since she knew him, what makes her think he's the same person now as he was then? :eyes:

There were some pics of him where he looked like a nice, happy guy - although I know pics can be misleading - but not sure of the time when they were taken.

I'm not an expert on mental illness other than people I know who are afflicted, but it would make logical sense, anyway, if the illness was progressive. He may have indeed been a "different" person back then.

Ha! I was only kidding about you finding Bachelorette Number Two, but good job!! :headbang:

:hi: :pals:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Hey, you're slipping.
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32571 Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. After reading some of the stuff he supposedly wrote online,
I would have assumed she was a blow up doll.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Interesting. nt
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. My opinion
is that his fascination with lucid dreaming evolved into blurring lines between dreaming and reality. I want to see the dream journal. I think he found that he could be a dark person in his lucid dreaming over time without repercussions and lost touch with what was real and not real.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. Don't confuse lucid dreaming with conscious dreaming...
Whether or not it has anything to do with his behavior, they are different from each other.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. "Things about the government" would "set him off that way"
Gee, I wonder where anyone would get the idea that "government" is a big problem.

You have to love those young naive high school girls, though. "He used big words." HAHA
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OneAngryDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I, too, have already decided...
that the jerk was a tea-bagger. It'll be awfully embarassing if it turns out he isn't, though.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. He doesn't have to be a stereotypical 'bagger
I'm referring to the 24/7 non-stop "government is bad" media in which the country is immersed. One doesn't have to be an acolyte of Palin and her terrorist videos to be affected by the caustic non-stop media.

Stochastic Terrorism.

I wonder if Bin Laden and Palin will release their videos on alternating weeks. I suppose their respective programming departments are negotiating this now. They could save money by sharing production facilities.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Did you see what he said about abortion?

After an incident in February 2010 in which Mr. Loughner blurted out in a poetry class that dynamite ought to be attached to babies, a campus police officer wrote, I suggested they keep an eye on him and call us if anything else developed that concerned them.

Mr. Loughner explained the remark matter-of-factly. He said that the class had been talking about abortion, which made him think of death, which made him think of suicide bombers, which made him think of babies as suicide bombers, wrote Mr. Conover.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/us/13college.html?hp
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. Many Paranoid Schizophrenics
Edited on Fri Jan-14-11 01:25 PM by RobinA
in this country believe the government has it in for them. It has nothing to do with politics. That being said, I'm sure all the anti-government propaganda that is so easily accessible these days doesn't help the situation much. If I'm already paranoid and delusional to this degree and I see heads on TV talking about Obama's plans to take over the country and install his own brand of government, I'm not sure it's not almost rational (given the belief system at work) to attempt to strike back. The thing you have to remember about psychosis is that the person believes what he is thinking to be the truth.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. What kind of liberal is anti-government?
"Figueroa added, that Loughner basically kind of thought that the government was crap and that it was just this big, bad thing that was trying to just take over everybody and that we had no say in anything; that we were controlled by them 100%, and he strongly disagreed and felt people should be able to make own choices," she noted."

The R/W is saying he's a liberal, of course. :eyes: Sounds like a typical TP'er to me.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. I had a HS friend who was schizophrenic, and it would be easy to think..
she was "faking it" when she had delusions. It's hard to accept that someone who can be rational and normal much of the time can also have a severe mental illness.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yikes. did you catch her opinion of his sanity?
Figueroa believes Loughner planned the shooting, "He's a smart kid, I think he did his homework. And, I think he's playing everything. I think he's trying to get sent to a psych ward because he doesn't want to go to jail because he didn't die like he wanted to."

"I think he actually expected to get shot that day because if you looked at his Facebook and his Youtube everything was written in past tense. That's not common unless going commit suicide. Or, something bad is going to happen to you," Figueroa added.

"There's a lot of people out there right now who are saying Jared Loughner is mentally ill, I know you're not a doctor, but your gut feeling, is he mentally ill or an accumulation of everything you talked about?" "I don't think he's mentally ill at all. I think he's honestly, I think he's faking everything. I think he's planned it, planned for sometime."
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Merlot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. I agree with her. I don't know why, I just do.
"I don't think he's mentally ill at all. I think he's honestly, I think he's faking everything. I think he's planned it, planned for sometime."
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. I agree with her. I think he is unstable and evil. not insane.
and I await more news of his homelife, as the authorities have already alluded to a very "dysfunctional" home life. I would imagine he grew up around anti-govt rhetoric.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
29. Hold it! K-GUN? Really?
Tucson's ABC affiliate is K-GUN?
Oh boy.
:eyes:
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. How very telling that a guy who believes that everybody should be allowed to make their own choices
proves with one of his own that the notion is absurd. Big words notwithstanding, Mr. Loughner isn't too bright.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
33. Did she mention that he's a cross-dresser?
Edited on Fri Jan-14-11 04:48 PM by slackmaster
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xor Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
35. A lot can happen in five years time.... Not sure why her opinion matters much now...
I'm certain people who knew me five years ago couldn't speak much as to how I am now. It seems even less likely for this situation, since in the time span he went from teenager to what most would consider adulthood.
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