DHS Memo Suggests Shooter May Be Linked To Racist Organization

[kpete]

Source: FOX

DHS Memo Suggests Shooter May Be Linked To Racist Organization

by Jennifer Griffin | January 09, 2011


According to a memo obtained by Fox News with information compiled by the Department of Homeland Security and released to state law enforcement officials, Jared Loughner, the alleged shooter of Congressman Gabrielle Giffords, may have been influenced by a pro-white racist organization that publishes an anti-immigration newsletter.

No direct connection, but strong suspicion is being direceted at American Renaissance, an organization that Loughner mentioned in some of his internet postings and federal law enforcement officials are investigating Loughner's possible links to the organization. The organization is a monthly publication that promotes a variety of white racial positions.

"The group's ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic," according to the memo which goes on to point out that Congressman Giffords is the first Jewish female elected to high office in Arizona. A recent posting on American Renaissance's website on January 7 begins with an article entitled: "Exit poll: Whites are Different." The site goes on to list anti-immigration articles. Investigators are also pursuing Loughner's alleged anti-Semitism.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has taken command of the investigation.



Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/01/09/dhs-memo-suggests-shooter-may-be-linked-racist-organization#ixzz1AYOlfLCz

[LawnKorn]

1. Jared Loughner favored the book Mein Kampf

Mein Kampf is almost required reading for the right wing, skin head, white supremacists.

[aquart]

6. He was trying to beat up Jews in high school. Didn't work.

Shouldn't have picked on big Jews.

[Suji to Seoul]

9. he tried beating up my brother. 6'3" and 265 lbs. . .Jared got the snot beat out of him twice.

My brother throws semi tires around like they are pebbles.

We're Jewish.

[forty6]

15. Has law enforcement been in touch with your family yet about this?

Seems like this is highly relevant to the picture of him as a bigot.

[Suji to Seoul]

20. They have the yearbook. I'm sure they can find my brother. He still lives in Gabby's District.

that's all I will say. He won't volunteer information for fear of people overturning his life, but if asked, he will answer.

[aquart]

37. I know. That's what I was referencing.

I linked what you wrote last night to my FaceBook page.

[progressivebydesign]

50. omg... I would imagine the shooter grew up in a racist home. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

98. Wait

Isn't he Jewish too? Reports saying his mother is Jewish - that makes him by birth (as my mom's father was a son of a Jewish mother and Methodist father) Jewish.

Is this self-hatred perhaps?

[South End Liberal]

12. What about Peter Pan and Fahrenheit 451?

Loughner's MySpace page listed his favorite books as "Animal Farm," "Brave New World," "The Wizard of Oz, " "Aesop's Fables," "The Odyssey," "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland," "Fahrenheit 451," "Peter Pan," "To Kill a Mockingbird," "We the Living," "Phantom Toll Booth," "Siddhartha, "The Old Man and the Sea," "Gulliver's Travels," "Mein Kampf," "The Republic" and "Meno."


Reports coming out claim the guy had mental health issues in high school and college. He would often burst out during classes, rambling on about things his classmates couldn't follow. He also supposedly was very concerned about 2012 predictions.

You want to have a meaningful discussion about the shooter -- the congresswoman he shot was a supporter of mental health care.

[teabaghater]

53. Why was he

allowed to have a gun? In AZ are there NO laws? As much as I hate Arpaio hope this POS ends up in his hell. No, Fed Judge, Needle time for Jarrod, no more Subway turkey subs for you dude.

[boppers]

92. In AZ, you can conceal carry if you haven't been put away.

There are very few gun laws.

[librechik]

54. those sound like a collection of book club "Family Classics."Wonder if he actually read them.

It just says on his bookshelf, after all.

[sulphurdunn]

41. Mein Kampf

should be read by anyone wishing to understand the nature and tactics of the totalitarian mind.

[Turbineguy]

59. Lots of people have read

Mein Kampf, Das Kapital and loads of other books. It doesn't mean they put it into deed. In any event, this should leave Sarah Palin and her ilk some wiggle room to evade responsibility.

[thecrow]

2. They might charge him with a hate crime, too.

Sweet

[Raster]

3. "...a memo obtained by Fox News with information compiled by the Department of Homeland Security..."

Translation: Don't blame Faux and don't blame the Teabaggers.

...says the quasi-fascist cheney*/bush* government agency. We'd like to lay this on the Jew haters and white supremacists.

[Raster]

4. Our hate speech did not cause this, THEIRS did.

[emulatorloo]

18. OTOH Anti-Semitism is not totally inconsistent with Teabaggery

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. But it's very consistent with truther libertarians

They are now blaming the Jews for 9/11.

I know several who were once part of the anti-war movement. Still on their email lists. They've been on this Jews 9/11 connection for about a year now.

[Raster]

26. Israel had NOTHING to do with 9/11, except for MOSSAD delivering several very strong warnings

...to cheney*/bush* that some type of attack with hijacked airplanes was eminent.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. I know that.

I'm just saying that the truther meme is that they are responsible.

[stockholmer]

69. a deeper dig into Mossad/9-11 link ,via NYT, CNN, ABC,Salon, Alexander Cockburn, Christopher Ketcham

I want to emphasize that I do not think it was a giant Israeli concieved and executed plot, that is disinfo, but there are large unanswered questions on almost every major angle of the 9-11 tragedy

regardless of what actually happend, the results are indisputable, over 1 million dead war victims since 9-11, mostly civilians, trillions spent by the USA and others on the empiric wars, the ushering in on a global basis of a police/surveillance state, and the shredding of your Constitution due to such abominations as the so-called Patriot Act, NSA electronic surveillance programme, Protect America Act of 2007, the TSA, Homeland Security Dept., etc (started under Bush, continued and expanded under Obama)

http://www.christopherketcham.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/Final%20PDF%20of%20CounterPunch%20article%20re%20Israelis%2001-29-07.pdf

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn03072007.html

ABC’s 20/20, The Forward, and Salon.com have all covered the story. But where’s the follow up? Democracy Now spoke to the author of the article, Christopher Ketcham; Counterpunch editor Alexander Cockburn; and Marc Perelman, the Forward reporter who did one of the first reports on the story in 2002.

Real Video Stream http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2007/feb/video/dnB20070208a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=00:44:45

Real Audio Stream http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2007/feb/audio/dn20070208.ra&proto=rtsp&start=00:44:45

MP3 Download http://www.archive.org/download/dn2007-0208/dn2007-0208-1_64kb.mp3


more articles

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/05/07/students/

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/pf/p-j030802.html

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?geopolitics_and_9/11=israel&timeline=complete_911_timeline

New York Times
Cousin Of Alleged 9/11 Hijacker Exposed As Israeli Spy
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/world/middleeast/19lebanon.html?_r=3&hp

The cousin of alleged 9/11 hijacker Ziad al-Jarrah has been exposed as a long standing Israeli spy in yet another startling intelligence connection between the Zionist state and the attacks on New York and Washington.

A New York Times report details how Ali al-Jarrah was a highly valued spy for Israel for no less than 25 years, sending reports and taking clandestine photographs of Palestinian groups and Hezbollah since 1983.

According to the article, “From his home in this Bekaa Valley village, Mr. Jarrah, 50, traveled often to Syria and to south Lebanon, where he photographed roads and convoys that might have been used to transport weapons to Hezbollah, the Shiite militant group, investigators say. He spoke with his handlers by satellite phone, receiving “dead drops” of money, cameras and listening devices. Occasionally, on the pretext of a business trip, he traveled to Belgium and Italy, received an Israeli passport, and flew to Israel, where he was debriefed at length, investigators say.”

To emphasize how highly regarded he was by Israel, Israeli officials even assured Jarrah that his town would be spared at the outset of the 2006 Lebanon-Israel conflict and that it was safe for him to stay at home.


Federal Assistance to Recipient URBAN MOVING SYSTEMS INC

http://www.fedspending.org/faads/faads.php?&recip_id=903577&sortby=u&datype=T&reptype=r&database=faads&detail=0


CNN
Ziad al-Jarrah was questioned by UAE authorities at the request of the CIA in January 2001, eight months before 9/11, about his alleged terrorist activities, but was subsequently released. http://articles.cnn.com/2002-08-01/us/cia.hijacker_1_cia-operation-al-qaeda-training-camp-sources?_s=PM:US

ABC
Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?(ABC)
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1


Haaretz (Israeli National News)
Odigo says workers were warned of attack
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579

[Raster]

89. I do believe that there may have been persons associated with the Israeli government that may have

much more information than publicly revealed. However, that is not Israel nor the government of Israel. Just as I believe that persons associated with the cheney*/bush* government know far more than they have let on.

[TheMadMonk]

93. Failure to police their own does not absolve other people of the actions of their own.

[MrMickeysMom]

29. Please....

I happen to be a liberal who questions the incompetence (LITHOP) in the Bush administration with 9/11, and never have associated the Jews with this. I support the reinvestigation of 9/11, but I would hate to be pegged as an anti-Semite.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. So am I. Don't peg me as an anti-semite either.

I'm just telling you there are truthers who blame the Jews. It's disgusting but it's true. I get at least an email a week from them that is more "proof" for their sick theory.

I'll go to my grave wanting to know what really happened that day. But that doesn't mean I believe all the nonsense theories.

[obxhead]

35. That would be libertarians, not liberals.

A huge difference.

[MrMickeysMom]

55. I understand the difference

[molly77]

78. I would hate to be labeled anti semitec because of the things that

my govt. does. Which is to kill Arabs. They are semites too. Helen Thomas has pointed this out.

Does the FBI investigate right wing hate groups?

[Behind the Aegis]

97. Learn the definition of the word "antisemitic" and not the disingenuous one you are trying to use.

[South End Liberal]

5. Spin, spin, spin........

Wolf Blitzer on CNN yesterday kept asking his guests if the shooter was right wing fringe or left wing fringe. Then he asked if the shooter knew that Giffords is Jewish.

Do you see a pattern here, folks?

[slackmaster]

36. They're trying to pin it on Helen Thomas?

:argh:

[stockholmer]

75. roflmaooooooo n/t

[lonestarnot]

81. OMG! ROFLMAO! Funniest fucking thing I've seen here all day.

:rofl: I needed that thanks! Because I was mortified when I just came here and saw a Faux snooze link on DU's home page. :cry:

[RamboLiberal]

7. The Memo

MEMO:
"The investigation has been taken over by the FBI, and is being run through the Tucson Command Post. Here's what can be confirmed at this time (1800 hrs)...

* Gabrielle Giffords Is in ICU.* Federal judge John Roll is deceased. He did rule on a 32 million dollar civil rights lawsuit in February, 2010. That ruling brought death threats to Roll and his family, and for a time he was given a protection detail.

* 6 deaths attributed to the shooting. 19 total people hit by gunfire.

* suspect’s mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors

* the suspect has multiple arrests ... But no criminal record? Intervention by someone?

* no direct connection - but strong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.

* DHS have a list of names and dates of birth of all victims.

* the ACTIC is still playing a major role in the investigation... Computer forensics is cleaning up the surveillance videos, and images from around the scene, and involved in the investigation - working together, was MCSO, DPS, Phoenix PD, ICE, and of course the FBI. It did just come in from the command post, that the federal judge was Not originally scheduled to attend the meeting, according to wife. She stated that he received a phone call about an hour before and was invited to attend. Wrong place - wrong time. For the planning side, there are impromptu memorials popping up all over the state, but the largest one is downtown phoenix, at the capital."

http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/latest-on-shooting-of-congresswoman-giffords-motivation-anti-semitic-and-she-was-the-target/

[emulatorloo]

13. Sounds like they can tie the rhetoric in the YOUTUBE vids to

ideas out of American Renaissance.

[bemildred]

8. This kind of reminds me of OKC.

A little bit, the political background.

[Raschel]

10. So I think this group fits right in with the tea bag platform. "Real Americans" (same language KKK

used), anti-immigration, White.

[lobodons]

11. But that girl said he was a liberal?

I thought that girl who was his friend back in 2007 said he was a liberal.

[YDogg]

14. She may not have a clue what a liberal is

[onpatrol98]

21. She has a clue...

She has a clue. We have to hold individuals responsible for their acts. No matter how warm and fuzzy we feel about tying any and every crime to loud mouths like Palin, Hannity, and Beck. The rhetoric is hot every where and on every side. If you're liberal, you're convinced the rhetoric is loudest from Fox News, tea party members, and their blogs. If you're conservative, you think it's hottest from MSNBC, liberals, and our blogs. My primary concern is that we don't trip ourselves up in this rush to tie legal speech from one person or group to the actions of another. That's a fairly broad brush.

Not to mention, this guy seemed to have enough variety in his reading list to tie him to any group you could consider. Try to limit the public speech rights of far right loons, and invariably we limit our own.

[The Wielding Truth]

28. He was delusional, if his writings are his, yet is was just a matter of time

before someone off balance would act on the RW hate speech and targets put on the heads of their political enemies.
He is not the only off balance person who has been promoted to attack RW enemies. This must be stopped and the people using this method to overcome their opponents be restricted form public interaction.

[RBInMaine]

48. He could appreciate his actions though. He could control himself. He PLANNED this.

[comtec]

44. there is sizable difference between "politically offensive" speech and INCITING violence

Reading Niche and actively culling the herd are two different things.

from your post it feels like you are not making a difference between what fox and it's hosts say day in and out, and reading mein kampf and Marks.

Arguably they both advocate violence to achieve their ends (oddly similar ends, but for different benefactors) but they are in fact political speech.

What fox does isn't protected speech, it's yelling fire in a crowded theater. It's throwing matches in a powder keg and trying to blame the person that tried to stop them.

[kath]

45. Puh-leeze. Spare us the "both sides do it" crap.

[RoccoR5955]

56. It seems that a lot of that "both sides" garbage is coming from the usual trolls

Just ignore them and they will go away. They only seek attention, so please don't feed the trolls.

[onpatrol98]

90. It's not garbage, it's reality...

It's not garbage, it's reality. Talk doesn't cause a sane person to kill. I don't care how hot the talk. It's ridiculous and dangerous to public speech. Something I've always considered MORE important to liberals. If the best you've got to throw at me...is calling me a troll, I can take that. This is about discourse. If you don't want to discuss the issue with me, go away. I don't mind the conversation from those that do. This liberal believes in freedom. Unfortunately, freedom comes at great risk. I have said things I wish I hadn't said. When Bush was in the White House...please! Should I be blamed if after listening to me, someone else goes out and does something stupid or evil. Are we into censorship, now?

I don't want anyone to freeze my speech...I don't seek to freeze anyone else's. I'm not a troll. I'm an American. I'm a democrat. I'm a liberal. It's naive to think both sides don't do it. Or, delusional. It's human nature. The other side is wrong...our side is right. We're intelligent. They're stupid, they're evil...they're (fill in the blank). Of course, both sides do it and will continue to do until people cease to exist. The signs that this kid was slipping was evident. Not in whether or not he watched Fox News. It was evident in what his friends are just now speaking on out in the open. Did you hear what his friend said...she said she just ignored his behavior, his ramblings that didn't make sense. This is no lifelong republican or democrat. He was 22 years old. She was talking about him having issues in high school. When he was in high school there was no tea party, no first black President, and he probably was not a news junkie.

Why wasn't anyone able to give him the mental help he needed in high school? Why even now, does it make us feel better to blame people who have never met him, than to be adults and realize this was simply a kid with some serious mental issues that went unchecked...year after year.

It never fails...after the crime, friends and family recognize the signs. Next, we'll hear from his teachers, etc...and republicans want to talk about the greatest medical system in the world. This is evidence of our failure. To reduce it to a conversation about Beck or Palin would, in my opinion, oversimplify a serious failure in our society. Not an opportunity to censor speech.

[RoccoR5955]

91. Oh, I suppose

That you believe that telling people to "Lock and load," against a candidate, or using a second amendment remedy if an election does not turn out your way is freedom of speech? I suppose that you believe that shouting, "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater is also free speech. IT'S THE SAME THING.

When people use terms that advocate violence, surely most sane people would take it with a huge grain of salt, however, there are kids, whose values are being formed, and when one advocates violence, you make that kid, who may be just a little off, think it's okay to go out and kill an elected official.

Yes, the kid should have had mental help, but in order to stave off this kind of thing, Palin and her ilk should not have advocated violence in any way, shape or form.

By stating that we are "freezing" someone's speech, you sorely miss the point. PALIN AND OTHERS SHOULD NOT HAVE USED THAT LANGUAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Yes, there is too much violence in society today, but what becomes of our society when people running for office, and their lackeys advocate assassination?
And YES, it's just that simple.

To advocate otherwise is just being a damn troll, AFAIC!

[onpatrol98]

95. Nutty...

This is ridiculous. If someone tells you every day to lock and load...are you really going to go out and lock and load? Of course, not!

There would have to be something else there. That's almost (but not quite) as silly as an adult calling another adult a troll. How the heck old are you?

No matter what anyone tells you, you're not going to go out and start shooting people in the street, I hope.
There would have to be something more to it. I doubt very seriously that the average tea party person is a killer. Misinformed, definitely...under educated, perhaps...but ready to shoot someone at a moments notice?

I'm sorry. I still say the kid had mental issues. Of course, not every person that has mental issues kills. This kid seemed too...and he did. And, if he did, anything could have been his trigger. On a bad day, one of us could have been his trigger...cut in front of him on the freeway, give him a failing grade. I bet if you asked him (after he promised to blame Palin), he'd give you a list of grievances as long as your arm.

I'm not saying what Beck, Palin, and Hannity do is helpful for our society. I'm saying using a broad brush to stifle what we're sick of hearing doesn't help our democracy and might bite us in the butt, later. In addition, I'm saying this kid should have been able to get help. If considering these points, pulls out a troll comment from you instead of reasonable discussion, I'll leave you alone.

...instead of the devil, now it's Beck made me do it. Give me a break.

[RoccoR5955]

99. It's really simple.

If there was NO violent rhetoric, and a lot less violence in society, where would have this kid have gotten the idea to kill a politician? When people are telling others to lock and load, and use second amendment remedies, they are urging the weak of mind to do it. Especially those youngsters who are still forming their world view. Yes, he should be responsible for his actions, but his actions are a product of his environment. An environment wrought with hate and violence. All the top movies, video games, "news" programs, are violent ones. You do know that someone once said that if you repeat something often enough, people will think it's okay, don't you? Well the violence and hate have been spewed for quite some time.

By trolling, and stating that it was a mental disorder is only a part of a greater picture. There has to be less violence in society. Whether or not that means legislating it, is something that we all have to grapple with.

[Rainbow Wave]

94. You're pretty much wrong on all counts.

1. Research has shown that politically violent rhetoric does increase support for political violence. The effect is more pronounced on men under age 40 (like Jared Loughner, for example.) - <http://scienceblogs.com/tfk/2011/01/asking_why_without_the_blame_g.php>
2. The mentally ill are not more prone to violence than those who are not mentally ill. - <http://www.slate.com/id/2280619/>
3. There is a difference between protected free speech that states an ideological position and veiled or not so veiled threats of physical violence. And it simply is not the case that people on the left (minus the occasional anonymous blog commenter) have been calling for violence upon their political adversaries like the right has been doing from the airwaves, at rallies and town hall meetings, online, and even from the halls of Congress. If the right has a valid political point to make, they should be able to make it without threatening people.
4. This armchair pop-psychologizing about Loughner's supposed mental illnesses is in itself an oversimplification - and one that does not ultimately pass the smell test (see number 2).
5. Very much is made on the rightwing blogs about what this one girl said. There is no proof that: a. She is who she says she is. b. Her politics are not driving her assertions. c. She even knew Loughner well enough to determine what his politics were. d. She isn't lying through her teeth. We know that investigators are searching for ties with American Renaissance based on what they found on his computer. American Renaissance is a white supremacist publication that has Tea Party ads on its website. That trumps what one girl said, especially given a, b, c and d.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stockholmer]

76. well said n/t

[lark]

87. Where is the evidence to back your claims?

Seems like you are just an appeaser, citing msm bs without using any thought. Name me one major liberal who has people in the audience threatening his/her opponents, who uses gun imagery and threats against their opponent in all their literature as well as their talks - can't think os one - can you? That's because there isn't one. We may call the opposition crazy and traitorous, but we don't agitate for death threats against them - ever. We may push for trials for him and for him to be in jail - but killed - never. There is a big difference.

[Frances]

17. Liberal????????

[YDogg]

19. She posted this on twitter and has repeated it in at least one msnbc interview

I doubt she knows what the word means. She may have meant libertarian or even something else. Maybe her interpretation is that he is liberal if he used drugs as has been suggested. She also said this morning on msnbc that he is a big believer in the 2012 end times bullshit. That alone doesn't shout liberal to me.

[forty6]

25. Agreed, I saw here on TV this morning, she knows NOTHING, and..

she hasn't talked to him in 3 years!!!!

I just think she wanted her one minute of fame.

She also looked pretty clueless about politics.

[progressivebydesign]

52. based on what I've read, I'd guess libertarian. No way a liberal.

but that doesn't stop the idiots on Fox News and on the internet forums from trying to advance that idea. Yeah.. a liberal high school student who used to beat up jewish students. Hardly.

[newspeak]

57. libertarian, probably

liberal, hmm, I don't think so. If he didn't believe in government involvement, especially programs helping people, I don't believe he was a liberal. If he believed in small government or no government, then he's a libertarian fool or a rightwing teabagger. Liberals believe that the government is the people, and that the government is to serve the people and by pooling our resources together, it is used to aid the people.

I do not know one liberal who believes that government should be done away with or government should be "drowned in a bathtub."

Of course if he was reading Icke, then I wonder if he believes there's a bunch of alien reptiles out there. Icke is one who takes some grounded facts, then destroys it by making outlandish claims. I believe he actually does a favor for those who actually have a lot of dirt, just by throwing in the outlandish claims. However, if this young man believed in the gold is everything, no government then it almost sounds like he's been listening to Beck. Also, some liberals are not the only ones who use drugs, all you got to look at is one blathering right wing talk show host.

[Igel]

58. Expand your mind.

A lot of people don't hew to a party line at all. They pick and choose according to their own thinking, however logical or emotional that may be, and what they come up with may not seem all that coherent to anybody else. Yet it is, to them.

We argue about labels when there are 100,000 different sets of views out there and 4 or 5 high-level labels and perhaps a dozen arrayed on the next lower tier. The labels mask reality even though we think the labels say something Truly Meaningful. So-and-so's not a "true" whatever, he's a WINO, a whatever-in-name-only. She's not a real whatever, she's a closet corporatist/collectivist, a traitor or betrayed of the whatever cause. Labels are actually fuzzy. Calling my mother a racist would be accurate; she's also a strong supporter of Obama and her "racist" views of "Mexicans" is that they're all hard working and good people. Calling my friend George a "homophobe" overlooks his gay friends, that he believed strongly in equal rights for gays (not marriage, though), and that he believed that if Jesus was tempted like all men (and women) then Jesus also necessarily found having sex with men to be about as tempting as having sex with women--unmarried heterosexual sex was as bad as unmarried homosexual sex, but George wasn't a heterophobe. Even such relatively narrow labels mask underlying complexity.

Manipulating labels is easier, though. Keeping track of 4 or 5 labels, with one assigned to any given person, is a lot easier than finding out about dozens of polyvalent views per person and keeping them all straight. We believe that the labels are really, really meaningful because we have assigned one of the labels to ourselves and need to defend the sanctity of that label. You see that kind of argument on DU (and conservative sites) all the time. "I'm a liberal, I'm a good person, so if somebody says something bad about liberals they're saying something bad about me." Talk about whole-part fallacy and the quasi-fallacy that employs shifting definitions.

The guy's label doesn't matter. What matters aren't even his views, since most people with those that I've heard about don't go and gun down 6 people, wounding a dozen others. Rather than pointlessly arguing, as the RW does, over labels, what about the underlying pathology or factor(s) that made him snap and actually gun somebody down? Even calling him pathological or a loon primarily says that he's not one of my group, the necessarily non-pathological non-loons.

(Ah, I see: I just don't get it. It's not because of anything "underlying," it's because he's a "teabagger," part of the dreaded subhuman tribe of uber-conservatives with no morals and no ability to think, and so we find the answer in a trite label. Deep, truly critical thinking, that, up there with the 9/11 bombers did it because they were Muslims and black murderers just do it because they're black. Labels, labels, labels, the all-determining, all-important labels. Having labeled something we now control it, have made it safe, have protected ourselves from the evil unlabeled evil. Well, a relative had his disease labeled calciphylaxis a couple of years ago and a lot of people immediately breathed a sigh of relief. The label meant control and was assumed to mean understanding and treatment when it was a feel-good substitute for understanding. But calciphylaxis has no cure, no treatment, nobody knows why it happens but we do know it is invariably painfully and brutally fatal--properly labeled or not--within a couple of years. Yes, he died over a year ago.)

[Enthusiast]

71. End -Times liberal?

I don't think so.

[ThomThom]

73. 2012?

I thought it was May 2011.

[left on green only]

83. I thought that as well

But what do we really know when all we have to go on is what we are told by the media? The media doesn't report the news, or the truth. All the media does is attempt to stir people up and cause them to become anxious and paranoid so that they will continue to listen. The reason why they do that is so they can use the total number of people (who they have duped into listening to them) to lure potential advertisers who will translate into a greater source of income for them. Cynical, but true. And, yes, I have even seen evidence of this over at HuffPost. Hey, nothing wrong with that, right? It's what is called capitalism. And capitalism is what our country is all about. So when it comes to news, we are all sheep who feed out of the trough of wall street. I apologize for having gone off topic.

[AlienGirl]

86. She might have listened to Beck and think that Nazis are "liberal"

The guy liked Hitler's book, after all, and Beck's always saying that fascism, Nazism, communism, socialism, and liberalism are the same thing.

Tucker

[Rex]

39. She did, but obviously that is not true.

I have never met a single Dem that was also a card carrying member of the White Identity Movement and never will I bet.

[progressivebydesign]

51. Yeah, one person says she thought he was a liberal when he was.. 17???

I mean, have you not met any teenagers in your life? If someone thinks he was liberal when he was 16 or 17, he could have tried a hundred different stances by 2011. He's not a liberal. Not by a mile.

[YDogg]

16. May be true but fox has a vested interest in protecting their own

[The Wielding Truth]

24. dingdingding! They twist and shade and cannot be trusted.

[Blaze Diem]

23. "Bullying" to the extreme..

Didn't Obama just sign an anti bullying law?

Doesn't this also qualify as bullying?

[starroute]

30. Add in the David Icke connection

The SPLC guy mentioned Icke in the Olbermann segment, so I've been reading up on him. Apparently Loughner's rants about conscious dreaming come directly out of Icke's stuff.

Icke is the source of an elaborate conspiracy theory that recycles a lot of old anti-semitic materials but blames the Illuminati and the other usual suspects on alien lizard-people rather than Jews.

He mixes these basically right-wing materials with a lot of New Age stuff -- basically a gnostic type of theory that suggests the world is a dream from which we have to awaken, Matrix-style. That's apparently where his encouragement of lucid dreaming comes in -- I guess the idea is that if you can become aware within your dreams that you are dreaming and use that to gain control over the dream, you can do the same in waking life.

Icke is apparently on good terms with some of the hard-core racists and white supremacists. They see him as a kindred spirit, despite his New Age-y beliefs.

And the one thing the high school classmate said that did ring true was that Loughner was obsessed with 2012 prophecy stuff. That plus the numerous children's fantasies on his list of favorite books suggests that he can comfortably be placed within the occult wing of the extreme right.

[MrMickeysMom]

31. In mentioning Icke last night, something occurs to me...

... and so, I think of this -

Do you think that this guy's interests, mixed up as they were were so extreme right fringe, this is why he is confused as extreme left?

Theory: If one travels so far out to the fringe of the right, one meets the other fringe of the left.

[Blaze Diem]

34. Perhaps that happens in the psyhchotic minds of the unhinged..

Palins 'Base'.

[earcandle]

43. I think its just the right spin on it to obfuscate the Palin influence.

[Enthusiast]

82. At this point I believe they will

try anything to inject doubt. Just more obfuscation by the right.

[Blaze Diem]

32. Then O'Donnel really believes she is a is a witch? Bunch of freaks

They've always existed among us, but old geezer McCain gave them a leader when he drudged up Palin. Palin herself had her own personal witch doctor at one time didn't she?

[left on green only]

84. It seems to me

that you may be giving a bunch of people with double digit IQ's the attribute of intelligent thought.

[Blaze Diem]

88. Well ok, double digit may be stretching it a bit

Yes Palin did consult a witch doctor at some point.
oooo eeee oooo ah ah

Like 'night of the living dead' goes to Washington.
Old stinky man McCain unleashed them.

[AlienGirl]

85. Icke's bizarre-ass theory says that Jews *are* lizard people, so it loops right back... nt

[pam4water]

38. Who leaks to fox? Fox has so spun this story already. I don't know why anyone would leak to them

unless it preemptive of something worse.

[DrZeeLit]

61. Fox is already walking it back -- saying it's not from DHS, but from a law enforcement source

[RBInMaine]

40. This guy obviously embraces radical right wing views.

[freshwest]

42. But they're squealing it isn't their fault already. I'm not buying their spin.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

46. What about his ties to Sarah Palin and the Tea Party

... that should have been available on 1) his weblinks 2) his family members?

Why the 'possibly based on a mention' about the Hate Group and nothing on ....

oh wait, NEVERMIND.

[quakerboy]

60. I did not find your point clear

what exactly are you trying to say?

[louis-t]

47. And tomorrow, Limbaugh will call him a

"leftist". I promise.

[L0oniX]

64. The dude follows Rush ...he's one of Rush's listeners.

[progressivebydesign]

49. Gosh, and all the like-minded posters on news sites say he's a "librul"

I am not surprised about this. The little info they've gleaned totally points in that direction. The people who are just as vile as he, are all over the internet claiming he's a "hippie" a "demorat" and "librul" cuz they think he was smoking pot. It's obvious he was unstable, but I doubt he's insane. He's just filled with hate, ignorance, and susceptible to the anti-govt paranoia that surged when the republicans lost power and the Beck, et al, starting ratcheting up their "FEMA concentration camps" bullshit.

[ehrnst]

62. Freepers are calling the shooter a leftist, new age homosexual

Also - expect Obama himself to be blamed for the fact that the shooter was able to buy an automatic weapon, despite his history of arrests/mental illness, and comparisons of Laughner to William Ayers.

[gejohnston]

67. automatic

means fully automatic, strictly regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934. More accurate to say simply pistol (vs revolver).

[ehrnst]

79. Thanks for the clarification, gejohnston.

[soryang]

77. Freepers = Right Wing Authoritarian Followers

"...research reveals that authoritarian followers drive through
life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than
most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly
compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-
blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and--to top it all off--a
ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever
change their minds with evidence or logic. These seven
deadly shortfalls of authoritarian thinking eminently qualify
them to follow a wouldbe dictator. As Hitler is reported to
have said,“What good fortune for those in power
that people do not think.”" Bob Altemeyer in The Authoritarians

[L0oniX]

63. I suggest they he also may be linked to FOX!

[Optimistic]

70. Notice it was Fox News report

They are admitting that they caused this.

[Very_Boring_Name]

65. We had a thread on DU from someone whose brother went to HS with him and said he was anti semitic

[valerief]

66. And racist organizations are well known for being liberal.

:sarcasm:

[Optimistic]

68. So Fox News admits they caused this--Amazing!

[queerart]

72. Isn't This Group >>> ALSO

Anti Gay..... and considers themselves a Christian Organization?


So wouldn't that make the shooter a ummmmmmm.... Oh, I don't know.... what is it called?


DAMN... it's on the tip of my tongue.....


OH RIGHT....... a "Christian Terrorist"!


I'd say he is hardly the "Liberal" like the haters want the country to believe....


More like a drug taking, hating....... Christian Terrorist.....

[PatrynXX]

74. anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic

Basically the extreme Right should admit it. They love Iran's current government.


Really strange FOX Pac dug this up. maybe shepherd smith had them do it.

[defendandprotect]

80. Official story now ..... "acted alone" --

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

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