U.S. Military Seeks to Expand Raids in Pakistan

[Elmore Furth]

Source: NY Times

WASHINGTON — Senior American military commanders in Afghanistan are pushing for an expanded campaign of Special Operations ground raids across the border into Pakistan’s tribal areas, a risky strategy reflecting the growing frustration with Pakistan’s efforts to root out militants there.

The proposal, described by American officials in Washington and Afghanistan, would escalate military activities inside Pakistan, where the movement of American forces has been largely prohibited because of fears of provoking a backlash.

The plan has not yet been approved, but military and political leaders say a renewed sense of urgency has taken hold, as the deadline approaches for the Obama administration to begin withdrawing its forces from Afghanistan. Even with the risks, military commanders say that using American Special Operations troops could bring an intelligence windfall, if militants were captured, brought back across the border into Afghanistan and interrogated.

The Americans are known to have made no more than a handful of forays across the border into Pakistan, in operations that have infuriated Pakistani officials. Now, American military officers appear confident that a shift in policy could allow for more routine incursions.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/world/asia/21intel.html?hp

[ixion]

1. Oh, cool. So now we'll soon be occupying Pakistan, too

really, this isn't going to end well, I'm afraid. :(

[saigon68]

8. Another War for Obama

To make a few more Gold Star Mothers

[Bragi]

2. A totally predictable and bogus excuse for a failing war

Is it just me, or does it always happen that right after the U.S military is forced to publicly report that they are losing the war in Afghanistan, that there is a new round of finger-pointing at Pakistan as the culprit in this fiasco?

I mean, it's not like the U.S didn't know when it invaded the country that the Pashtun nation it was attacking straddles both sides of the Af-Pak border.

Nothing has changed on this in almost 10 years, including the unwillingness of Pakistan to have its sovereignty compromised.

Yet two or three times each and every year, U.S papers reprint these same woeful laments from the U.S military as though they constitute news.

[closeupready]

7. Yep. You nailed it on every single point.

+1000.

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. Wait..they are kidnapping Pakistanis and renditioning them to Afghanistan

for..."interrogation"?

so this thing about a countries borders has no meaning to the USA, huh?

[Hawkowl]

4. A 21st Century Cambodia

The Vietnamization of Afghanistan continues! When can we start carpet bombing Islamabad? What? They have nuclear weapons?

Well maybe when we have a Pakistani version of Pol Pot rise up and fire off a few nukes, we will realize our folly of destabilizing Pakistan by massacring its citizens.

[bemildred]

6. +1. How soon we forget. nt

[saigon68]

9. Idiocy by a group of Morans

[rug]

12. Parrot's Beak

[irislake]

5. Jesus!

No wonder the rest of the world believes United States is the most dangerous country on the planet!

[Robb]

10. Reuters: ISAF denies news report of raids into Pakistan

FWIW.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6BK0E520101221">ISAF denies news report of raids into Pakistan

A senior official for the NATO-led forces in Afghanistan on Tuesday strongly denied a report in The New York Times that the United States was considering expanding Special Forces raids into Pakistan.

Tensions between the United States and Pakistan are already strained despite months of strategic dialogue aimed at upgrading the relationship -- and billions of dollars in aid for development and relief from devastating floods.

Analysts said Washington might be using the suggestion to coax Pakistan into tougher action against Taliban militants in areas bordering Afghanistan. But any serious move to expand ground raids would boost tension, perhaps intolerably, and could be considered a "red line" for Pakistani authorities.

"There is absolutely no truth to reporting in the New York Times that U.S. forces are planning to conduct ground operations into Pakistan," Rear Admiral Gregory Smith, Deputy Chief of Staff for Communication for the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), said in a statement from Kabul....

As pointed out by Bill Roggio and others, ISAF also denied Pakistan incursion reports, that time from Xinhua, http://www.dvidshub.net/news/60725/nato-helicopters-did-not-cross-into-pakistan">November 23rd and http://www.dvidshub.net/news/60927/nato-helicopters-didnt-fly-into-pakistan">November 26th.

[Bragi]

11. Part of same sequence

1. U.S military publicly releases report that shows the war is being lost.

2. U.S spokespeople blather on about how the solution here is to mount more attacks inside Pakistan because hostile Pashtuns still persist in living on both sides of the Af-Pak border.

3. ISAF contradicts the U.S blather about increasing incursions into Pakistan.

I think the next steps in the sequence are:

4. U.S military announces that increased attacks on U.S troops show that the Taliban is getting more desperate all the time.

5. U.S military mounts a winter campaign, attacks and again occupies villages that were ostensibly cleared of Taliban the previous year.

6. U.S military withdraws once villages are officially cleared, and Taliban return home in time for the summer campaign, poppy harvest, etc.

7. U.S military publicly releases report that shows the war is being lost.

(repeat cycle.)

[Kennah]

13. US military pushes Obama to allow more Pakistan raids

Source: The Independent

In a move that would stir intense Pakistani anger, US military chiefs in Afghanistan are pushing the Obama administration to expand cross-border commando raids against Taliban and al-Qa'ida militants hiding in Pakistan's remote tribal areas.

The plan, if implemented, would be a significant escalation in the nine-year war, and a bold gamble to create conditions that would allow US combat forces to leave Afghanistan
by the target date of 2014, with an initial draw-down starting next summer.

But it also would place a heavy new strain on Washington's delicate and sometimes fraught relations with Pakistan. Officially, Islamabad is the vital ally of the US if the conflict is to be brought to a successful end – but it also has longstanding unofficial ties with the Taliban, and is deeply resentful of anything that suggests it is not master of its territory.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/us-military-pushes-obama-to-allow-more-pakistan-raids-2166494.html

---

Great. So to Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea, and Iran, we add one more.

[FiveGoodMen]

14. What may stop this in the end is a worldwide alliance against the US.

[msongs]

15. I hear that after the first war crime the rest are easier nt

[Creative]

16. Well, if this ensures that we can meet our target date of 2014, let's do it.

[davidthegnome]

17. Really?

How many innocent lives would you have sacrificed to accomplish meeting our "target date"? If you happened to be living in Pakistan, how would you feel about another Nation launching military raids into your territory? How would you feel about the many drone attacks and bombs that have already claimed thousands of innocent lives? I realize that in any war there are casualties, but the death toll for this one is already far too high. What do we truly hope to accomplish?

I am heart sick and overwhelmed by the sheer number of deaths and lives destroyed by this war. Is what we seek to accomplish worth years more? Can we even realistically accomplish what many of the greatest military minds and powers of the past could not?

It is time for us to meet and negotiate with our enemies. It is time for diplomacy, it is time to at least truly attempt to find a peaceful resolution.

When the Soviets rained death upon Afghanistan, we despised them for it, though they believed they had their (justifiable) reasons. Now we do the same in the name of war on terror and protecting democracy. Do you think Al Qaeda - an organization that reaches many Nations, can be successfully fought in Afghanistan alone? Do you believe we can destroy the Taliban altogether or at least weaken them to the point that a western style democracy is possible for Afghanistan? That is what this push seems to be for.

I believe we are facing an impossible objective and need to end this conflict now.

[Creative]

19. You are correct, too many innocent lives have been lost; however, unlike Iraq,

these guys attacked us first. That is how they rewarded us after we helped them fend of the Soviets.

Our military believes the correct strategy calls for pursing these guys and neutralizing them. Inasmuch as we, as a nation, have made the decision (by electing Obama) to just that, I say get out of their way and let them do their jobs.

Then we come home.

[sudopod]

23. No, they didn't attack us.

Al Quaeda attacked us; an organization made up mostly of Saudi Arabians at the time. The Taliban dithered about about turning over Osama bin Laden, and so the so-called-President and his men manipulated the situation to justify an invasion. The Taliban were and are total bastards and deserve whatever evil befalls them, but they did not attack us.

If you think the world is that simple, that black and white, then I don't know what to say to you.

[Creative]

28. And Al Queda was based in Afghanistan--hosted by the Taliban.

It really is a matter of black & white and wrong & right.

[saigon68]

29. Don't try to argue with the DLC idiot

They are totally brain dead and in my time were Cheney/Clinton draft dodgers

[davidthegnome]

24. We helped them fend off the Soviets

Then abandoned them when we could have helped them rebuild. When the Soviets left, we went home and said fuck it, we have no obligation to help them further. We left them to rebuild on their own, with very little aid from us, a Nation of people who barely knew they existed.

Who knows what could have happened had we done things differently? There would still be those like Bin Laden, but how many followers would they have? Would 9/11 have even occurred? Would it be necessary to fight the extremists today? There may have been elements in Afghanistan involved in the attack of 9/11 - but it is not they who have suffered the most or lost the most as a result. We have not found Bin Laden - we create more extremists through creating casualties of war. A child that has lost their family, or their friends, to an uncaring drone or bomb does not generally consider the grander scheme. That child has a very good likelihood of growing up to hate those they believe responsible, regardless of their reasoning.

Personally I voted for Obama despite his views in regards to this war, hoping that in time he would see the light. I hoped for many things.

Perhaps the most important question is this - when we do leave in 2014, will there be anything left? What will rise from the ashes to threaten us later? Aren't we actually creating more enemies through our actions? Where is the progress here? We are creating more enemies and creating hatred out of hatred. What good we hope to accomplish pales in comparison. We should not be there, we should not continue this, it has gone on for too long already.

[Creative]

30. Well, the plan is to leave in 2014; however, we must ensure that al qaeda is severely impaired

before doing so.

They may eventually rise from the ashes, but we cannot stay there into perpetuity.

[Bragi]

25. "get out of their way and let them do their jobs"

I hope the idea of civilian oversight isn't offensive to you. So should Congress let the Generals decide? Would that be enough "out of their way" for you?

[Creative]

27. Unfortunately, the Congress has abdicated its responsibility with respect to matters of war.

Nevertheless, I still believe that the decision to wage war rests in the hands of elected representatives. However, campaign strategies and battlefield tactics should be left to the military, for that is their realm of expertise.

[bemildred]

18. After nine years, does anyone think another 4 is going to lead to a miracle? nt

[IamK]

20. Don't count on this happening ....Obama can't kick the Pakistan drone habit....

[Kennah]

21. US military pushes Obama to allow more Pakistan raids

This thread has been combined with another thread.

Click here to read this message in its new location.

[DeSwiss]

22. Cambodia redux.

- All things being equal, I'm surprised they bothered to ask permission.......

K&R

[golfguru]

26. Chasing the insurgents into Pakistan is long overdue

They mount guerrilla attacks on US military form sanctuary in Pakistan
and then flee back to Pakistan when US military gives them a chase.

Bush never gave the green light to US military to chase the attackers
into their sanctuary. Obama deserves a lot of credit for surging the
drone attacks into Pakistan. It has seriously affected AQ leadership
by killing a whole bunch of them. In any war there always is collateral
damage. We killed hundreds of thousands of German women & children civilians
during WW II by carpet bombing German cities. It was a huge factor in
demoralizing Germans and eventual victory for Allied forces.

Obama would be wise to let the military do what is necessary to hasten the
end of Afghan war, which is now longer than Viet-Nam war.

As for Pakistan getting mad at us, are we scared they would stop sending
us $15 Billion in military aid every year? Oh wait, it is us who sends
them that aid! South Asians are not known for rejecting such a large "bakshish".

[Steerpike]

31. To paraphrase myself

Obama is just a serial killer with a great retirement plan

[pettypace]

32. Khalid Sheik Muhammad is Pakistani

For whatever that's worth.

[Nihil]

33. "Senior American military commanders" stating their intention to kidnap and torture civilians

> if militants were captured, brought back across the border into Afghanistan
> and interrogated.

Given the past record on "militants" and "interrogation", this becomes a
blatant statement that American "military and political leaders" have no
interest in any concept of international law or justice.

The US is a self-declared rogue nation.