Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Uribe proposed capturing guerrillas in Venezuela

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:45 PM
Original message
Uribe proposed capturing guerrillas in Venezuela
Source: WP

BOGOTA, Colombia -- Former Colombian President Alvaro Uribe was ready to order troops to cross into Venezuela and capture rebel leaders in 2008, according to a secret U.S. document released by WikiLeaks.

Uribe also told visiting U.S. congressmen, according to another newly released document, that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez represented a threat to South America similar to the one Adolf Hitler once posed to Europe.

Uribe believed "the best counter to Chavez ... remains action - including use of the military," according to a Jan. 28, 2008, report from the U.S. Embassy in Bogota that was published Friday by the Spanish newspaper El Pais. The newspaper provided links to the documents, which have not been posted on the Wikileaks site.

Uribe "said he was prepared to authorize Colombian forces to cross into Venezuela, arrest FARC leaders, and bring them to justice in Colombia," according to the report.

Read more:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Holy Moly! Who is the threat to peace in South America?
No wonder this shitbag and bush got along so well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. it doesn't seem like harboring guerillas would be in the best interest
of peace in the region either

if the guerrillas weren't in Venezuela, there wouldn't be a need to cross the border to get them
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. There are great big areas of Colombia in FARC control
Shouldn't charity begin at home?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. the government should take out the guerillas in Colombia
but there's no reason not to go after their bases in Venezuela since Chavez refuses to do anything about them using his territory

some would consider harboring the FARCers and allowing them to use Venezuelan soil as a staging area for their terrorism an act of war

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. All the countries that border Colombia have trouble with their war
spilling over, not just Venezuela. And there still is zero evidence that any of those governments "support" the FARC in any way. That was an idea put out at the Heritage Foundation and little uribito ran with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. +1000 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Why doesn't Colombia plot to invade its OTHER neighbors?
At the end of Alvaro Uribe's last presidential term, Colombia's judiciary was investigating allegations that the president ordered the wiretapping of members of the judiciary and the opposition, as well as investigating the alleged corruption of one of Uribe's own sons. Caught in these cases, which are ongoing and not new, Uribe succeeded in diverting the attention of Colombia towards Venezuelan President Chavez with his accusations, which are also ongoing and nothing new.

Uribe is making believe that the International Criminal Court, the OAS, and the U.N. are going to hang Chavez for supporting terrorists. But Colombia is not a Jewish community, nor is Venezuela a Palestinian community, nor is Latin America the Middle East. The unequivocal international rejection of Operation Phoenix, Colombia's 2008 raid on a FARC camp in Ecuadorean territory, demonstrated the international recognition of the right of each Latin American country to sovereignty over their territory.

The question is, who is responsible for taking care of the Colombian border and fighting the FARC - Chavez? Venezuela is not unique. It is estimated that there are more than 100 FARC camps scattered throughout Brazil, 62 in Ecuador, 40 in Peru, and around 20 in Panama, according to information from different government sources. Even in those countries that say they attack FARC, such as Panama and Peru, the FARC maintains a presence. Are these countries also harboring terrorism?

In all of those cases, Colombia is unable to stop FARC guerrillas crossing into its neighbors' territory, and consequently it does not really have control of its own borders. This situation is Colombia's fault, not that of its neighbors. No bordering country has Colombia's capacity to fight the FARC. That Colombia can't control its borders doesn't make its neighboring countries terrorist collaborators. None of these countries can show that it fought and removed the FARC from their territory, and Chavez can't be the only one forced to take responsibility for what no country has been able to accomplish, even Colombia.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Zactly! Focusing on Venezuela and framing it as if it's the only country 'harboring' FARC is another
example of Uribe carrying water for the United States government and the oil companies who own it.

Saying Venezuela is 'harboring' FARC terrorists is analogous to saying the US is 'harboring' undocumented Mexicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Uribe sounds like just the type of person Hillary would like.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. You mean the ACTUAL dictator?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. +1000 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. seems kind of silly, considering that there aren't any farc in venezuela nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. January 2008. Here's the context...
In the previous year, a plot to assassinate Chavez was hatched in the Colombian military and was exposed. Uribe and Chavez held a four hour meeting in which Uribe apologized to Chavez. Since an apology is two words and takes two seconds ("I'm sorry."), what else happened, in the remaining 3+ hours? My guess: That is where the treacherous Uribe hatched the next plot against Chavez, by asking him to negotiate with the FARC guerillas for hostage releases. That request was then announced publicly.

Chavez took it seriously. He began negotiating with the FARC for hostage releases. And he was on the point of success--with the first of what would be a total of 8 hostages to be released--on route to their freedom, when Uribe suddenly announced that he was rescinding his request of Chavez. This was two days before the release of the first two. That same weekend (12/1/07), Donald Rumsfeld published an op-end in the Washington Post, stating, in the first paragraph, that Chavez's help with the hostages "is not welcome in Colombia." The Colombian military then sent rocket fire at the locations of the first two hostages, who were on their way through the jungle. They were forced back on a 20-mile hike to a safe location. Numerous world leaders, including French President Sarkozy, human rights groups and the hostages' families begged Chavez to continue, which he did until he got a total of 8 out. Then he had to stop because it was becoming too dangerous for the hostages.

Chavez's hostage release work concluded just prior to the time that Uribe was calling Chavez "Hitler" to U.S. congressmen and talking about invading Venezuela--the date of these cables (1/28/08). I figure Uribe's (Rumsfeld's?) nasty little plot to hand Chavez a diplomatic disaster, with dead hostages, got foiled and that is why he was so angry.

And here's what happened just afterward--a month later (3/1/08):

Chavez and many other leaders had hopes of getting a peace negotiation going, to settle Colombia's 70 YEAR civil war. Argentina's newly elected president Crisinta Fernandez pledged her support of the hostage release efforts in her inaugural address. Many efforts were going forward, centered on FARC commander Raul Reyes, who was the FARC's chief hostage and peace negotiator. Reyes moved his hostage release camp to a location just inside Ecuador's border. He was about to release high profile hostage Ingrid Betancourt (a French-Colombian citizen). Her family had been notified. French, Swiss and Spanish envoys were in Ecuador, headed to Reyes' camp to receive her. They were warned off--told that "everyone in that camp were going to be killed." That night, the U.S./Colombia dropped 500 lb U.S. "smart bombs" on Reyes' camp, and raided over the border to shoot any survivors in the back, slaughtering a total of 25 sleeping people. This horrendous act nearly started a war between the U.S./Colombia and Ecuador/Venezuela.

But that's not the end of it. Soon Uribe was claiming to have seized Reyes' laptop computer from the bombed out camp and started making wild charges against Chavez--that he was a "terrorist lover," that he was giving the FARC money, that he was helping the FARC get a "dirty bomb," etc. etc. He said he had FARC emails to prove all this. This "evidence" was eventually completely debunked (even by Interpol, whose head tried so hard to help Uribe). It was crap. There weren't even any emails in the laptop (just alleged FARC documents). And the Colombian military had the laptop for three days and so compromised its provenance that it could not be used in a court of law.

From this perspective--the "miracle laptop" conclusion--looking back over the previous months, we can see the outlines of a likely made-in-Washington strategy to use Chavez's and others' desire for peace to expand Colombia's long civil war into Venezuela and Ecuador. Venezuela has the biggest oil reserves on earth (twice Saudi Arabia's, according to the USGS). Ecuador also has lots of oil and is also a member of OPEC. The U.S. wanted to destabilize these countries, get rid of their leftist governments and gain control of the oil (and particularly of the oil profits, for Exxon Mobil and Chevron). And, at the least, they wanted to stop all talk of peace in Colombia's civil war--it is a U.S. war profiteer gravy train--and damage Chavez and Correa as much as possible with dirty tricks and slander.

One other thing should be mentioned: Nearly half a million Colombians--mostly poor peasants--have fled over the borders into Venezuela and Ecuador, in flight from the Colombian military and its and Uribe's paramilitary death squads, and from the dreadful U.S. "war on drugs" (spraying of toxic pesticides on small farmers', their children, their animals, their food crops). A total of FIVE MILLION peasant farmers have been displaced in Colombia, by state terror--THE worst human displacement crisis on earth. The refugees who have crossed the borders are a significant burden on Venezuela's and Ecuador's governments (for one thing, because they are humanitarians and believe in helping the poor), and this vast migration also creates unstable borders. It is in the immediate interest of decent governments, like Venezuela's and Ecuador's, to see an end both to Colombia's civil war and to the U.S. "war on drugs" which the Bush Junta folded together into ONE WAR--the "war on terror"--a completely inappropriate and dreadfully bad policy, that has resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocents and the poverty of millions, and has been used by Colombia's fascist rulers as an excuse to slaughter trade unionists, human rights workers, teachers, community activists, journalists, political opponents, peasant farmers and others, and to spy on everybody (judges, prosecutors, opposition politicians and all of the above). Uribe has a string of bodies behind him all the way to Antioquia, where he was governor, in his early career. Some seventy of his closest political cohorts, including family members, are under investigation or in jail, for bribery, spying, ties to death squads, ties to drug trafficking and other crimes.

This is the context for Uribe--who oversaw one of the bloodiest, most criminal regimes ever to be propped up by the U.S. ($7 BILLION in military aid)--comparing Chavez to Hitler, and wanting to make war on Venezuela. Venezuela didn't destabilize its borders. Colombia did! The FARC is an armed leftist guerrilla army made in Colombia. They are not Venezuelans. They are Colombians. If they and a quarter of a million Colombian peasant farmers have spilled over the border, fleeing Colombia's police state forces, who's fault is that? Chavez wouldn't join Uribe in his war. Thank God! --or many more innocent people would be dead. He risked a lot for peace, and got nothing but the most twisted treachery imaginable for his efforts--the willingness of the fascists in Colombia and in Washington to kill hostages as a political ploy.

The Obama administration is now coddling Uribe, protecting him from prosecution in Colombia and giving him a platform. He gets to continue telling lies like this, and saber-rattling and stirring up trouble from the safety of CIA "made man" status, probably because of what he knows about Bush Junta crimes in Colombia--while Chavez gets constantly beaten up and lied about in our corpo-fascist press and by the U.S. State Department, no doubt following scripts written in Langley.

And Uribe is no doubt meeting with those same congresscreeps, that he blathered to about "Hitler," back in 2008, salivating over the newly Diebolded Puke U.S. Congress and itching to get back in power and be the U.S. point man for the next oil war. He's in Washington with an academic sinecure at Georgetown, and in Boston at Harvard, no doubt teaching our young people that, when it comes to crimes of the rich and the powerful, "we need to look forward not backward." He just asked Hillary Clinton to give him "sovereign immunity" from prosecution--and from even having to give a deposition--in a case filed here on behalf of rightwing death squad victims in Colombia! And he'll probably get it. They've already gotten all the witnesses against him out of Colombia, and out of the reach of Colombian prosecutors, with various midnight extraditions and asylums. "Sovereign immunity." What next?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. Uribe, the fascist Thug
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
15. Colombia asked US for intelligence on Venezuela: WikiLeaks
Colombia asked US for intelligence on Venezuela: WikiLeaks
Friday, 10 December 2010 08:20 Adriaan Alsema

In a leaked cable, sent by then-Ambassador to Bogota William Brownfield on April 14, 2008, then-armed forces commander Freddy Padilla asked the ambassador for intelligence on Venezuela, a month after Colombia had attacked a FARC camp in Ecuador and military tensions with its neighbors were high.

Padilla said that from a military perspective, he was satisfied with the waythe recent border dust up with Venezuela and Ecuador played out. The Colombian military saw that the Venezuelan Armed Forces were considerably weaker than they had believed. In contrast, the Ecuadorian military showed it was a much more professional, if smaller, force than its Venezuelan counterparts. Padilla acknowledged that the Colombian military needed to reestablish its bilateral relations with the Ecuadorians, but said this would take time. He again asked for continued intelligence exchange on Venezuela, and also sought any additional intelligence the USG could provideon Ecuador. The Ambassador committed to looking into the matter, but reminded Padilla both countries benefited by keeping the intelligencerelationship quiet. Padilla agreed.

According to the same cable, Brownfield and Padilla discussed the establishment of a U.S. military facility at Palanquero, which was part of a military pact between Colombia and the U.S. a year and half later and caused friction with its neighbors. The pact was later turned down by Colombia's Constitutional Court.

The cable is one of a total of 2,416 diplomatic cables sent to or from Bogota that were leaked to the whitleblower website.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct 19th 2017, 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC