S Korea evacuates island as N Korea 'deploys missiles'

[nadinbrzezinski]

Source: BBC

North Korea has also deployed missiles near its disputed border with the South, the Yonhap news agency reported.

It comes as the South and the United States begin four days of joint military exercises in the waters off the Korean west coast.

North Korea has condemned the exercises as a provocation.

Artillery fire has been heard near Yeonpyeong Island, which was shelled by the North on Tuesday. Four South Koreans - two marines and two civilians - were killed.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11855162

---

Things are definitely heating up but you'd never know it from us newsreaders.

[tabatha]

1. S. Korea lifts Yeonpyeong Island shelter order; no shells hit after North fires artillery round

http://twitter.com/breakingnews

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Yep, been going to twitter

My guess is the next 24 hours are going to be critical...if hostilities resume...it will not be good, at all.

[tabatha]

6. I hope it is just lil kim throwing another 2-year old hissy fit.

[EmilyKent]

2. Then stop provoking them.

[Pavulon]

4. Yep, all our fault. our skirt is just so short

lil kim and young'un can't help themselves. If they attack the US or Korea they own it.

[EmilyKent]

7. War 'exercises' 7 miles off their coast is deliberate.

So the solution seems obvious.

[Pavulon]

10. Yep. lil kim goes back to raping some japanese woman he kidnapped

and ignores it. You are probably not familiar with East Germany and the USSR. They used to have war games and we decided not to attack berlin. A fucking miracle it was.

[EmilyKent]

11. This is 2010.

[Pavulon]

13. I guess that batch of victims all starved to death by now

he probably has some new ones by now. seriously he can ignore the exercises or he can jump and get wiped off the map.

[EmilyKent]

15. The US isn't going to wipe anybody

off the map.

[Pavulon]

23. No, the republican guard and that big soviet looking army that Iraq had prior to GW1

is still doing just fine. oh wait, they are all skeletons in Kuwait. I saw that gun camera footage before there was suck a thing as liveleak.

[EmilyKent]

26. You need sleep.

[Creative]

84. Yes, it's 2010 and this war is going on for 60 years.

That's what happens when you fail to achieve a decisive victory.

A few years before it all began, Germany and Japan surrendered without conditions and there have been no problems with either of them since.

[hack89]

12. NK will invent some other "provocation".

this has everything to do with NK internal politics - a succession struggle primarily.

[EmilyKent]

14. They don't need to invent them.

And as far as we know there is no 'succession struggle'.

[jaybeat]

20. Exercises 77 miles away from the border...

That have been planned for months hardly seem to qualify as a "provocation." Are we ratcheting up the tension to try and get them to back down? Of course. Is it a stupid game of chicken with thousands of lives at stake. Of course. Is it any different (or worse on the US/SK side) than what's gone on over the last 50 years? Not hardly.

[hack89]

79. You really believe NK is the innocent party here?

You have to ignore decades of history to come to that conclusion. We are talking about a regime neck deep in nuclear and missile proliferation; organize crime such as drugs and counterfeiting; and international crimes such as assassination, bombings and kidnapping.

They are a pariah nation for good reason.

[jaybeat]

18. Uh, that's 77 miles (125 km) from the maritime border (nt)

[EmilyKent]

21. Yeonpyeong lies near the Northern Limit

Yeonpyeong lies near the Northern Limit Line and is only 12 km (7.5 mi) from the North Korean coastline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeonpyeong_Island

[Pavulon]

24. Any reason you are defending North Korea?

just curious.

[EmilyKent]

25. Yes, it's all a massive plot to get DUers.

Try to stay real. :rofl:

[Pavulon]

27. The Hermit Kingdom generally does not have as many friends as comrade hugo

or the like. So are you saying if the north fires on civilians it is the south's fault too. Or just if they fire on americans its our fault?

please elaborate.

[EmilyKent]

29. Like I said, get some sleep.

Your hair-trigger is on overtime.

[Pavulon]

31. Pony up, who is to blame for splattered south koreans?

feel free to be succinct.

[EmilyKent]

32. Kay. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Pavulon]

34. Guess no answer is better than ..?

so is south korea responsible for the deaths of its citizens?

[EmilyKent]

35. You asked me to be succinct.

And since we already know the 'exercises' are a deliberate provocation of N Korea....I was.

[Pavulon]

36. Who is reponsible for the dead civilians? North or South?

feel free, i know it is hard but really. Did the south kill its own people?

[EmilyKent]

37. How many times do you need to be answered?

Like I said, get some sleep. Your hair-trigger is overwound.

[Pavulon]

38. Just once. Stop dancing and answer. North or south? who killed those people?

you can also weigh in on if they deserved to die as well..

Position gets hard to maintain when you have to support killing unarmed civilians doesn't it?

[EmilyKent]

39. You wonder how you get into messes like Iraq

and Afghanistan?

Well this is how.

You get all amped up, and look for a fight...with other countries, and other posters...even when you've been given the facts.

Don't draw lines in the sand and do the 'oh yeah, oh yeah' with me. I'm not interested in playing.

You've been told who did it.

[Pavulon]

40. Once more. Did the North kill those people and have you ever heard of east germany and the USSR

see those people had war games too, but did not kill americans or w germans. When we had war games we did not attack the USSR. Because they were not fucking insane like the kimmists.

So are you cool with the north splattering those people? The south should just spot them those bodies?

You are not interested in carrying your support for the North up to the point of them killing unarmed civilians are you.

You cant come in and go half way.

Take a fucking stand.

[EmilyKent]

41. Go beat your chest somewhere else.

I answered you already, and I'm not interested in the dandruff cloud you're raising.

[Pavulon]

43. No you dodged. You never stated clearly if the north was justified in killing civilians

very easy. Here is an example. The north WAS NOT justified in returning live fire into civilians in response to a pre planned announced exercise.

So you could say, the north was totally justified in splattering those people all over the place, I support my comrades OR
you could say hey I kinda want to fight them man a bit but am in over my fucking head. Killing unarmed civilians with 155 shells is a bad thing.

Feel free to actually answer. You never did. Scummy way to post. Never seen your ID before, to bad I cant look at your history.

[EmilyKent]

45. Whatever. Goodnight.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/26/china-raises-concern-plan-hold-joint-military-exercises-south-korea/

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE6AM05P20101123

Shadow box your way to bed.

[Pavulon]

48. sad way to conduct yourself..

guess you were not quite ready to own that position.

[GliderGuider]

54. You mean you couldn't maneuver her into a position you could attack?

Scurrilous, simply scurrilous.

[Pavulon]

56. Chickenshit game.

I will not defend north korea for shelling the south in a war game. you?

You cant come here and pimp north korea and expect not to get a simple question.

[NutmegYankee]

78. Good job

:thumbsup:

[hack89]

80. It was an honest question

certainly no one can think NK was justified in killing innocent civilians. Right?

[Lasher]

77. Now you can.

Good on you for calling out this bullshit.

[ronnie624]

62. The current situation in Korea

stems directly from the U.S. division of Korea (planned in 1944, with no input whatsoever from any Koreans, and which was opposed by 99.9% of all Koreans) and the utter destruction of Korea by U.S. bombers.

The U.S. government does not want peace on the Korean peninsula. Peace would remove the current pretext for having the U.S. military in that region, and a new excuse would have to be created.

[Pavulon]

64. Please, where do you people get this shit.

The million dead chinese and giant war destroyed the north and south. Seems the north is still a failed Stalinist kingdom.

Japan is and will be our reason to stay in the region. Until they change their constitution and we nullify mutual protection treaties with them. But you know that, just slipped your mind in your myopic fuck america rant?

The US government would like to see the split peninsula unite more than most south koreans (w germans did not like paying for the east either) and china.

You know people do write books on the topic, Hermit Kingdom is a good one, read come back with fact.

[ronnie624]

65. I can't help but notice

you have neglected to address the division of Korea by the U.S. government and the murder of 4-5 million Koreans, mostly women and children, with U.S. bombers.

[Pavulon]

67. Feel free to source that number and not from commondreams.

good luck with that link since it is double the figure for the whole fucking war in civilian death. Making shit up is bad.

in the mean time what is your plan. Give kim and young'un cash to sit down and shut the fuck up?

haul ass leave the south koreans to deal with it then hop back in when japan gets pulled in.

Wait for a regional war? How much thought have you put into this?

[ronnie624]

72. Perhaps 4-5 million is a slight exaggeration,

however even official U.S. sources place the number for N. Korean deaths as high as 3 million, and I tend to believe they're low-balling.

"Over a period of three years or so we killed off - what - twenty percent of the population." - Curtis LeMay

The U.S. was to take the southern zone; the already present Soviet troops were to remain temporarily in the northern one, with the aim of repatriating all Japanese in their respective sectors. The U.S. immediately created the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGIK), which was the sole legal authority south of the 38th Parallel, and it remained so until the Republic of Korea was formally established on August 15, 1948, exactly three years later. Tragically, Western plans for a post-war division of Korea were proceeding without the prior knowledge or consent of the Korean people.

*****
The United States direct involvement in Korea beginning in August 1945 provides us the earliest example of U.S. Cold War behavior. When examined carefully, it reveals a great deal about the nature of her national psyche as it is expressed in corresponding misguided political and vicious military policies, as well as the kind of unrestrained terror that was to be in store for its victims. Fear of communism — a national, and Western, mental illness of paranoia — caused a ferocious fury of violence to be directed at undeserving "Third World" peoples, as the monolithic spread of communism, itself grossly exaggerated, was regularly confused with genuine national self-determination (democratic) movements striving for independence from Western, colonial forces.

*****
And in the autumn of 1950 when U.S. forces were in retreat in North Korea, General Douglas MacArthur ordered all air forces under his command to destroy "every means of communication, every installation, factory, city, and village" from the Yalu River, forming the border between North Korea and China, south to the battle line. Massive saturation bombings throughout the war using napalm, incendiary, and fragmentation bombs left scorched cities and villages in total ruins. Just as in World War II, the U.S. employed mass destruction through strategic bombing to include civilian populations. This despite the Nuremberg Charter that emerged after that War, largely due to pressure from the U.S., which declared as a war crime "the wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages," and as a crime against humanity "inhumane acts against any civilian population." The U.S. military also operated under its own Field Manual 27-10: Rules of Land Warfare, which prohibited aerial bombing of civilian targets. However, as the Indigenous Americans continually reminded us, "White Man speaks with forked tongue," having violated every one of the more than 400 treaties signed with various Indigenous nations. Such deception has been a chronic pattern in the history of the "American civilization." This fact cannot be ignored forever!

<http://www.brianwillson.com/history-of-u-s-sabotage-of-korean-peace-and-reunification>

The Pillars of American Imperialism:

Rationalizing U.S. Cold War Involvement in the Republic of Korea

American history prides itself on the liberties and freedom guaranteed under the “exceptional” nature of American democracy. Evident in the Declaration of Independence, this notion has roots in the early American disgust with the corrupted “old” world (Stephanson 4). Despite this seemingly firm belief in an idealized vision of freedom and equality, a contradictory nature of American foreign policy emerged during the Cold War. Although not widely known, the United States, for example, played an integral role in installing a series of authoritarian right-wing regimes in South Korea throughout the latter half of the 20th century (Cumings 355). The so-called American “containment strategy” in Korea was only one of the widely deployed American foreign policy tactics of the Cold War, which aimed at restraining communist movements with whatever means necessary.

******
Many critics point to the lack of “anything” in Korea to deny any claims of American economic benefits involved with intervention in Korea. Specifically, they refer to the massive U.S. economic and military aid poured into South Korea, which peaked at a tune of about $1 billion a year, when the total U.S. federal budget was under $70 billion (Woo-Cumings 66). There were, nevertheless, economic benefits involved with the generosity. Similar to the political economy imperialism, U.S. involvement aimed at not only securing raw materials, but also securing cheap labor and markets to sell finished goods (Guevara). The American support for pro-capitalist regimes in South Korea effectively stifled labor movements for four decades. Korean workers, as Hegan Koo puts it, were infamously known for suffering the world's longest work hours – up to eighteen hours a day – in some of the most inhumane working conditions the world had ever seen (Koo 78). In addition to the strong discursive environment that denounced labor movements as “communists,” blacklisting labor movement leaders effectively obliterated the collective identity of workers. Unsurprisingly, American leverage over the right-wing regimes granted the United States exclusive rights to take advantage of such labor practices. Namely, South Korea became one of the first nations that the United States established a Free Trade Zone, where American businessmen could import Koreans good unhindered by domestic rules and regulations (Kramer, “Whose”). Free Trade Zones in South Korea emerged in early 1960s as part of the First Economic Development Plan, which strikingly correlated with the rise of labor-intensive industries in Korea (“Recent”).

<http://www.lurj.org/article.php/vol2n1/coldwar.xml>

[FinGovi]

88. Respectfully Pavulon,

I think that military exercises are dual purpose events. One prepares one's forces, tests their skills and responses and refines one's capacity to maintain the peace through strength. The second function is propagandistic. I can see that second function as "provocative", it is the war of nerves that is always present in adversarial relations.
Their is no moral position from which one can justify shelling civilians. North Korea's government is authoritarian/totalitarian and enslaves the people of North Korea.
These points are indisputable. Kim Jong Il is a despicable human being.
All that being said, I doubt that these "war games"/military exercises can be seen as non-provocative, especially seeing how mentally unhinged the adversary has proven himself to be. Paranoia runs deep throughout the entire regime.

I would prefer that such military exercises not be held, but if they are a necessary evil, perhaps it would be wise to not hold them near disputed border areas?

[Union Scribe]

52. I don't see anyone "defending North Korea"

I see the very legitimate question of why the US and SK are participating in this lethal game of brinksmanship.

[Pavulon]

58. Should North Korea have shelled civillians? Do you think that has anything to do with it?

I kinda think it may be a bit relevant to the topic. But hey, to each their own. If a person is going to take a position they should be willing to defend it.

[EmilyKent]

66. It's a game on here. 'Spot The Plot'.

The basic premise of this site is 'WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!'

And you have to 'believe'. Or you are one of THEM!

If you try to insert a note of optimism, or even reason, you are automatically a 'paid shill' for communists/capitalists/corporatists/bankers/Monsanto/China/NKorea/Haiti/volcanos/Freepers/anyone that currently annoys DUers/whatever.

And everyone is always up for a fight, and general fear-mongering.

Conversation is out of the question. The sand is always full of lines.

I've seen a lot of good intelligent people banned for questioning the dogma.

So I don't bother saying much, I just read the news, and rarely comment.

[Pavulon]

69. You could say if you support the North shelling civilians

and you could chime in on whether above mentioned splattered civilians may have a bearing in the escalations there.. Or you could dodge it.

I can list situations where killing civilians is acceptable and legal. I could list situations where I would have shot them, but you cant quite seem to sort yourself out.

[unkachuck]

16. exactly....

....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if SK and the US wanted to attack or provoke NK into hostilities, they would probably do it under the cover of military exercises....

....an acceptable excuse to amass massive amounts of fire-power along someones' border....

[EmilyKent]

22. Yes, it's kind of obvious.

Especially when you tell China you're after N Korea.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/26/china-raises-concern-plan-hold-joint-military-exercises-south-korea/

[Catherina]

44. Exactly. But we haven't been parking all that hardware there for decades

just for fun. A united Korea would be our nightmare. The MIC needs demons and enemies to justify its existence and that bloated Pentagon apparatus.

[EmilyKent]

Very true. There always has to be an enemy.

The Pentagon can't justify expenses otherwise.

I mean, if everyone got along, or even managed to use diplomacy to solve arguments, who'd pay for all the hardware?

[Pavulon]

51. Its already paid for, I mean quoting Rodney, cant we all just get along

hey did you hear about the 6 million dead people in the congo in the last 10 years, no? That's what happens with no stability.

Re-read orwell you missed the point.

[Catherina]

59. I'm afraid I'm going to have to ignore you from this point on

you're not making much sense. Maybe you need some sleep.

[Pavulon]

61. Feel free to Read janes Defense in your spare time.

it tends to give insight into things like troop levels and weapon systems deployed to north korea. But facts may interfere with your faith based position.

[Catherina]

57. Precisely

The MIC's biggest fears are truth, diplomacy & peace. They do everything they can to agitate tensions workdwide as their 4th estate, the media, fully cooperates to make sure we only hear one side of the story. WikiLeaks couldn't be happening at a better time.

It's a pleasure to meet you EmilyKent.

[EmilyKent]

68. Likewise!

You probably won't know me for long on here, but I've enjoyed your posts.

Cheers!

[RZM]

73. I doubt that's the case

My guess is the US establishment would probably welcome a N. Korean collapse but would prefer it happen naturally and not through armed conflict, which would put large numbers of civilians at risk from N. Korean strikes - one of the few modes of leverage they have. It's China and S. Korea that are more wary of a collapse, since they would have to clean up after it and care for all of the starving refugees (reintegrating the Koreas would make German unification look like a day in the park, spending-wise).

Though I don't entirely buy your MIC argument, even if that were the case, the US does not need N. Korea to justify expenditures. Troops and equipment would probably remain for a while after and in any case there are plenty of other hot spots that can more than justify spending. N. Korea is an annoying headache for the US and its collapse would be heartily welcomed by much of the political class -- the status quo is there because right now, it doesn't seem to be worth the risks of war. This, BTW, is the real reason for bluster w/Iran. The time to get tough is before a country has the bomb. After they do, your options are much more limited.

[Pavulon]

47. Where do you people come from. Do they publish Janes defense there?

we have removed troops and tactical nuclear weapons over the last 15 years. Christ, you guys make it up as you go along.

We have been moving to diffuse the situation for a long time. we did not react to nuke tests, torpedo shots, fucking missiles launched over japan and during a shuttle launch.
I swear people would carry water for Imperial Japan given the chance, fucking Manchurians deserved all that rape and murder, MIC...

The MIC will not be the ones shelling Seoul.

[Catherina]

50. We most certainly have not. The only one who tried to diffuse anything was Carter

during the Clinton presidency. Other than that it's been the kind of line you're pushing.

Carter pushed so hard to diffuse that Madeleine Albright went over there, came back and declared that Kim Jung-Il was a well-informed, intelligent, and rational man.

[Pavulon]

55. So removing tactical nukes and a division is a provovation. Again you people

are ignorant of world affairs and just chime in with your fuck america line like little kids.

Clinton was quite close to a war there in 94, i was on active and was concerned about that. Closer than we are now, read up before you post like you know something.

You were doing whatever the fuck you were doing, I was getting ready to fly from NC into a shooting war. Home from balkans right in time.

The north has been on a fuck up and get paid cycle and now that is over. Janes is available online and free at your local library.

[Catherina]

60. Please see post 59. n/t

[Pavulon]

63. The oh shit someone did their homework and I din't post. got it.

feel free to chime back in with how removing nuclear weapons and mechanized division is a provocation.

But make some more breakfast, the last batch was yummy.

[Ghost Dog]

75. Jane's is no longer Jane's. It was sold to some shadowy outfit

that likes to hide its tracks. So, no longer independent and reliable.

When I've time, I'll try to look up a link to the info on the sale again, unless someone here has it already.

[ronnie624]

76. And that's beside the fact that it's nothing more than a masturbation rag for war worshipers.n/t

[Pavulon]

81. Umm, janes is a paid service like Lexis Nexis and published information

that called out Colin Powell's testimony and other data around GW2. Long before I saw it in another medium. They were ahead of the curve.

It is not one magazine it is a massive service.

Janes is one of many publications like FP magazine that give data with minimal spin to allow readers to form conclusions.

Only gripe with janes is their strict policy on republish. So I cant paste stuff here from my paid account without getting DU sued.

[ronnie624]

83. Umm, I don't care.

There are many other sources besides Jane's. I prefer a well researched book, myself.

[NickB79]

86. SK holds these exercises EVERY year, and has for the past decade or more

NK is well aware of them months in advance.

The exercise shelling SK did from the island was aimed SOUTH, away from NK territory.

Why is this exercise any different than the dozens they've done before that didn't elicit a NK artillery shelling?

[NickB79]

87. In the past year, NK has killed 2 SK soldiers with shells and 46 SK sailors with a torpedo

And sent a SK destroyer to the bottom of the sea.

Oh yeah, and they SET OFF A FUCKING NUCLEAR BOMB!

Who is provoking who here?

[redirish28]

5. WTF is going on in North Korea? I'm mean this seems so all of a sudden between this and

the Shelling of the island a while back.


I'm seriously wondering if Kim Jun Il is in charge anymore. Seems to be chaos (No I am not talking about Get smart either.)


And the way the U.S. newspapers are not dealing with this.

I'm seriously worried that we will wake up one morning to find U.S. troops already sent in without true warning.

[EmilyKent]

9. Kim Jong il is dying.

So he is turning leadership over to his son, that's all.

US troops won't be going in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. US press are studiously avoiding it

Worst than usual...

And worst case...some nukes will fly.

And most folks will wake up to find out hostilities have resumed...no the war never stopped...

Will they care anyhow?

[Poll_Blind]

28. It is interesting for such a flashpoint area and time (with power changing hands) that...

...the mainstream media really isn't giving this as much coverage as one might expect.

One thing I have learned through experience is the media covers mostly the shit nobody wants to know- the really important stuff typically only after the fact.

PB

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Well real war is not sexy

Yes I know last ten years. But worst case we could have 25k in a fortnight...if we are lucky...

Will make the last ten years look like nothing.

[Pavulon]

8. The real victim will be Julian Assange. Can you imagine how fucked off he would be

if his big coup de leak was bumped by a shooting war that would kill tens of thousands in its opening 30 minutes. In all seriousness North Korea is fucking insane to start a war now.

[quakerboy]

71. When is it not insane to start a war?

Including our own last couple?

[EmilyKent]

74. 100% agreement.

War is easy. Peace is hard.

[Pavulon]

82. Iraq is the worst FP decision in the last 75 years.

There is no doubt it caused far more problems than it created. Afghanistan suffered as a result of the war and became something it should not have been. A long war strategy.

[EmilyKent]

17. What's with all the fear-mongering on here?

Everything is an Armageddon moment lately.

[Jello Biafra]

30. Beware of a false flag operation.......

This is not good......

[HEyHEY]

42. Dude, this is NOT false flag operations

NK's military, who really run the country, are fucking insane. Certainly other shit has happened in the past for which the US government can be fingered, but other shit has happened in which they couldn't be blamed... the invasion of Poland comes to mind.

This situation is serious because it is very real, not imagined.

[rainbow4321]

46. Twitter link

On edit:
I misread the date, didn't realize it was from yesterday. Sorry. But still wanted to share the Twitter #korea link.


http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/northkorea/2010/11/28/47/0401000000AEN20101128001900320F.HTML



(URGENT) Explosion sounds of artillery fire heard on Yeonpyeong Island, official says



I'm following #korea on twitter. Very new to Twitter so you all probably can find stuff better than I can but here is the link:



http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23Korea

[EmilyKent]

49. It was practice. Yesterday.

There are few people on the island now.

[rainbow4321]

53. Sorry. My bad

Obviously not keeping dates straight.

[EmilyKent]

70. Hey, it happens.

[panzerfaust]

85. Seoul is like how far from North Korea - perhaps 25 miles??

Almost half of the people in South Korea live in the Seoul National Capital Area - a quarter in the city itself. During the Korean War it was captured, and recaptured several times.

More than any other nation on earth South Korea is at risk of destruction from a single nuclear explosion, also, more than any other nation on earth, South Korea is at risk of such an attack from a crazed neighbor.

The South Koreans know this, the North Koreans know this, and everyone knows that, if it felt threatened enough North Korea would not hesitate to use such a weapon.

After all, we did - and we had almost won our war.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the first atomic bombing - that of Hiroshima - was justified in order to let the Japanese see what they faced if they did not end the war. However, I also think that the bombing of Nagasaki was totally unnecessary and prompted by idle curiosity as to the effects that bomb (a different design than that which devastated Hiroshima) would have in comparison to the first.

I also do not think that any such bomb would have been used on any German city - even if it had become available in, say 1943.

My point is that the situation in Korea is almost unbelievably tense, and that there is no way that it can be resolved by resort to arms. If the North started to lose - everyone would lose.

[Xithras]

89. NK has no need to nuke Seoul.

Downtown Seoul is 35 miles from NK's artillery batteries, which are well known to be the largest and most heavily defended in the world (most are in underground concrete bunkers with only slots to allow the barrels to extend above ground level). The North Koreans are estimated to have about 13,000 conventional artillery pieces along the border, more than half of which are within range of Seoul and the surrounding cities. According to South Korea's own projections, NK has the capability to completely erase Seoul from existence in under two hours without using a single missile or nuke. It would literally be raining fire in that city.

North Korea's reasons for pursuing missile and nuclear programs are primarily to hit longer range targets. They learned during the Korean War, and have repeatedly seen since, that it's very difficult to drive an enemy out when they are attacking you from outside the combat theater. They're more interested in hitting aircraft carriers, and islands ranging from Japan to Midway and Oahu that would be primary aircraft launch points and resupply stations. If they can cripple our ability to resupply and offer aerial support to troops on the Korean peninsula, they might have a fighting chance. We know it and they know it. That's why we don't want them to have nukes and long range missiles.