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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 12:59 AM
Original message
White House Gives In On Bush Tax Cuts
Source: The Huffington Post

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's top adviser suggested to The Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration was ready to accept an across-the-board continuation of steep Bush-era tax cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers.

That appears to be the only way, said David Axelrod, that middle-class taxpayers can keep their tax cuts, given the legislative and political realities facing Obama in the aftermath of last week's electoral defeat.

"We have to deal with the world as we find it," Axelrod said during an unusually candid and reflective 90-minute interview in his office, steps away from the Oval Office. "The world of what it takes to get this done."

(More at the link).



Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/10/white-house-gi...
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. But cutting social security will be just fine.
Asshats.

Motherfuckers.

More.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. But hands off the defense budget!
What additional social benefits will be on the chopping block, one wonders?

:banghead:

Can we have someone like Richard Nixon back in office? (I can't believe that I even find myself thinking that. Oh, how far we've spun out into the far, far Right)!
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
57. Didn't read the report, did we?
Massive defense cuts are in there too.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #57
64. The White house isn't promoting any DoD cuts
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 03:39 AM by Lorien
"A draft of the commissions recommendations was posted on the commissions website Wednesday afternoon. It is portrayed as the recommendations of the panels co-chairs, former GOP Senator Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles, who served as President Clintons chief of staff.

Of course, 14 of the 18 commissioners on this panel must approve the recommendations and this is the draft. And the recommendations must still make it past Congress, which has shown little appetite under the Democrats so far to make substantial cuts to defense spending. And the Republicans are in the House now. While some of the Tea Party elements seem intent on at least calling for defense cuts, the senior Republicans who are likely to run the Armed Services and Appropriations committees are unlikely to look on with defense cuts with anything much nicer than a grimace.

Read more: http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/11/10/prez-panel-wants-100b...


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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #64
78. If you like the 2 wars going on NOW You'll Love the next couple
of years WHEN NEW WARS, that NOW are planned and ready to be executed occur

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #78
210. Once upon a time, various administrations would promote programs for the good of the people...
now they slate up wars like it's the new fall season line up.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #78
319. Perpetual war works for the elite/corporates and they're controlling everything now ...!!
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #64
105. "calling for defense cuts"
Here, let me bold it:

calling for defense cuts

Would you like it in italics?

I can do that:

calling for defense cuts

Maybe make it HUGE?

calling for defense cuts



Is that better?
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #105
108. The COMMISSION is calling for cuts, both (R) and (D)-NOT the White House
the White house has not weighed in yet, so don't even try to pretend that the two are one and the same.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #108
110. I didn't.
The OP did.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #110
278. I think it's time you added a caption to my once loved Obama poster
"Chill the Fuck Out..... I'm THINKING about this one!"

:spank:
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #278
298. LOL.
Yes, that would be funny, and appropriate.
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Cal33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #64
322. I think it would be wise for us to slow down a bit, and not jump the
gun. Whe White House is coming out with denials today. Let's
just sit back for a while and watch how things turn out.
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trud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #57
138. I read the report
Social Security is right out in front. So is Medicare. "Defense" is an afterthought.

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #138
160. An afterthought of chump change cosmetics n/t
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 08:09 AM by Catherina
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #160
212. I like to call it a political version of rope a dope...
They come out with the cuts to vital services to the middle and lower class while trying to pacify us into thinking that defense will be cut as well. Thinking that that will make things all better!

yes, they think we are that stupid.

oh well.

since they are cutting the money I paid into both programs, they can just give me the refund instead? LOL

our money vanishing into a haze of bullshit.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #138
300. How are you defining "right out in front"?
For that matter, how are you defining "afterthought"?
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #57
206. Massive? 200 billion in cuts to defense IS NOT massive.................
.........and this is just a "preliminary" report by the two ass hole co-chairs. This is not the final report. That comes out Dec 1st and the House and Senate has a up or down vote w/o ANY amendments allowed. You better read MORE than this early draft.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #206
215. 200 billion would be about 1/4 of it's budget...
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 09:09 AM by Javaman
that's pretty massive.

But will it actually happen? Of course not.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #57
232. and those cuts will be eliminated
use your head. They had to say something positive.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #232
277. The War Machine's budget
is divided into 435 parts....each Congressional District has JOBS tied to the War Machine.

Too bad those War Machine Jobs can't be turned into making solar panels, wind turbines, hell....anything that has been shipped to China. We can't even make toothpicks or straws in this country anymore.

We just make things that maim and kill. USA!

This is such Kabuki Theater. We have an opportunity to turn this lame duck session into something brilliant. We could actually kick some ass. But as Axelrod says....the administration is humbled and shellacked. I'm sick of it.
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Evasporque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
185. Tea Party wants to invade Iran and North Korea...maybe Canada...
Can't touch the defense budget.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #185
323. I thought Pakistan was the Irak of the 2010s
but I may be wrong
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
199. Disgusting waste
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
159. Am I reading DU?
I read through the whole post with all comments, and came back up here to ask you and everybody else if they even checked whether this was true before making the statements that I see.

I hope every single soul who posted here worked hard and continues to work for something better. I can see a few posts here that are obvious psyops. The rest of you, minus one or two, appear to be behaving like lemmings.


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/11/11/919608/-Ob... !

Obama Didn't Fold--- More Huffington Crap!

by whamfan Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:20:17 AM PST

According to a recommended diary, President Obama "folded" on tax cuts. He is apparently going to allow tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans to be permanently extended. This would be very big news (and contradict what he said in his Weekly Radio Address just a week or two ago). And it would be extremely depressing.

Since this is such big news, I immediately looked for ANY sources other than Huffington Post discussing this shocking development. I found NONE. Not the New York Times. Not CNN. Not even Talking Points Memo. Even a Google News search found ONE internet link on this topic---Huffington Post. Hmm, real interesting. The President makes a major decision on a key issue, and no one except Huffington Post even discusses it. There are two possible reasons for that:

1. Every other newspaper, news network or internet news source chooses to ignore it (which seems unlikely, especially in the internet area of 24-hour news and instant information) or

2. Other news sources view an informal chat with a presidential advisor as NOT being indicative of the Commander-in-Chief's decision.

more at the link, if you haven't jumped off a bridge or moved to the Netherlands yet. You folks are flipping out and it's not helping.



Poll:
Is the Huffington Post Correct that President Obama has "Folded" on Tax Cuts?
Yes, they broke the story that every other news source chooses to ignore
30% 77 votes
No, Huffington Post is just spewing more crap!
70% 183 votes
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #159
209. If He Didn't Fold - Why Isn't He Out There Saying That He Didn't Fold ?.....
Why isn't he or the WH debunking the Huff Post story?

I think the handwriting is on the wall. We saw how the French handled it with the raising of the retirement age. Even with the protests by the French people - they went ahead and raised the retirement age.

We're seeing it again in London with the protests by the university students. I don't think that they'll be successful either and the Brit govt will screw them too.

The MSM in this country has played down both of these protests. They don't want to give us any ideas. They're hoping we just roll over and accept anything that they want to do to us.

The die is cast. The Catfood Commission will succeed. Obama will say that it is the tough decision - but it was made in a bipartisan manner - and we'll just bend over and take another one in the shorts.

It's going to be interesting when all this outsourced product that isn't manufactured in the U.S. anymore - starts sitting on shelves because - no one can afford to buy any of it.

The corporatists think that they have us by the short hairs. They don't realize that they are shooting themselves in the foot and causing us to spiral down the rabbit hole even faster.

No jobs. No money to buy the crap they are trying to sell us. No tax money being collected. People out of work don't pay payroll taxes. People out of work don't buy things and we won't be collecting sales taxes. People that lose their houses won't be paying property taxes. Property taxes support your local state, city, town or village and schools. Without property taxes our infrastructure will deteriorate even faster. Education will suffer even more than it currently is. Our children will be shortchanged. Our future that is in their hands will suffer because they will not be able to compete with students from other countries that are getting fine educations.

The rich are thinking they are sitting on easy street right now. They got their hands in our back pockets so deep with sell phones, cable TV, faster internet, fancy electronics, new and expensive energy efficient cars, skyboxes, etc and the list goes on and on.

But when the money that's left in those back pockets need to pay for ever increasing cost of food and shelter. There won't be any left for all those extravagances that they are trying to sell us.

Folks - we're in a death spiral here. There is no way out of this - if we continue on this path of financial ruin. This is just another one of those bubbles that will burst - and when this one bursts - it will probably be too late to recover.

I'm really depressed this a.m. - can't you tell.



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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #209
269. Maybe because he is in South Korea

Addressing issues relating to a 2 million man army staring us down with nukes.

Just a guess.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #269
287. Oh - Give Me A Break (sarcasm)!.........nt
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #287
288. Not sure how to take that

But imagine how much more effective the administration would be if Mr. Obama took the simple step of getting an account on DU and chasing the shiny object du jour.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #288
297. +2
Yep- now I know I like you.

How do you do. I'm mahina, pleased to make your acquaintance. I don't hang out here much so you won't usually see a lot of posts from me, but I've been around a while, and I do love DU.

So nice to meet you. Aloha.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #288
330. Jberryhill Actually, we on DU respond to Bush's fumbles.
Have you seen the movie, Inside Job?
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #269
296. +1 but honestly they aren't staring you down, they're staring us down.
Us, Seoul, and Japan.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #269
329. Nukes that previous presidents allowed North Korea to have.
Sorry, but jberryhill, this scenario is very much like that in France prior to the French Revolution.

The so-called "Bush tax cuts" transfered a greater portion of the overall tax burden on the poor and middle classes.

All we need is bad weather or a natural disaster that reduces the amount of available food and, voila, you will have a real mess.

Of course, if you are a teabagger, educated primarily or only, let's say, in business administration or law or engineering or science, you probably won't know the history of "old Europe" or much of any other culture for that matter, so you won't realize just how bad things can get when the poor and middle classes are oppressed too much.

All life is interdependent. That is true of humans too. We depend on each other. As John Dunne wrote, "No man is an island."

2 million man army staring us down with nukes indeed. The real threat is in a society that does not take care of its weakest. That is where the real threat is. The real threat is right here -- homeless families, millions of jobless and poverty contrasting with obscene wealth.

Wealth can be a good thing, but as the aristocrats in France found out in the close of the 18th century, wealth must be used for the common good because it can be easily lost if it is squandered selfishly. I hope we never have to face a revolution like the French Revolution. But the inequity in our society at a time of great economic and social change reminds me of that time and place.

One of the causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was the inequity in their tax system. You cannot create wealth by starving the poor.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #159
266. Our own folks...drinking the cool-aid.
:argh:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #159
279. I believe it
For one thing, it would be consistent with almost everything else he's done since being elected president.

For another thing, the author of the article directly quotes a named top Obama advisor. Why on earth would he make that up? If he did make it up, it would be easy for Axelrod to disavow it.

You ask why other news sources aren't reporting this? Maybe the Obama administration is floating this as a trial balloon to see what the reaction is. If the reaction isn't too bad, they probably intend to go ahead with it. Maybe they feel that if they floated it to a more "mainstream" source, like the NY Times, then their hands would be tied.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #279
335. K&R...
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #159
326. Obama ALWAYS folds. He has a PATTERN AND PRACTICE of folding. A con is a con is a con.
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
250. they did NOT give in on tax cuts for the wealthy- this is a false reading of the story and headline.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #250
270. What you mean is the surrender is temporary, not permanent.
Axelrod repeated that the extension would not be "permanent" today. Which means they are caving on an extension.
And down the road will there be another "temporary extension" on a tax cut that is already breaking this country and should never have happened in the first place?
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urgk Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #250
272. Yep. UPDATE: WH denies accuracy of HuffPo story.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 10:36 AM by urgk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Axelrod emails:

There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

And White House comm director Dan Pfeiffer adds:

The story is overwritten. Nothing has changed from what the President said last week. We believe we need to extend the middle class tax cuts, we cannot afford to borrow 700 billion to pay for extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and we are open to compromise and are looking forward to talking to the Congressional leadership next week to discuss how to move forward. Full Stop, period, end of sentence."

(edited to correct typo)
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savalez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
281. White house denies story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Anybody want to take a wait-and-see approach to this? It might be prudent to do so.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
334. Obama has no problem cutting social security seniors. Obama, multitask, no can do...?
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. What are they thinking? Fix the mortgage crisis...
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
217. Oh come on, don't you know?
that's yesterdays news!

we are into a whole new land of bullshit.

they just don't have enough wall paper so they have to push the old stuff into the closet now.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
317. They transferred trillions of our dollars to corporations only recently ... what are you expecting??
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 09:03 PM by defendandprotect

Financial coup d'etat -- one of the biggest heists ever pulled off!!


Bailouts -- and sell outs --

We're on the sell out end!!

Please -- figure it out!!

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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. "We have to deal with the world as we find it," You know this dude Obama once said:
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 01:04 AM by Poll_Blind

"Nothing can stand in the way of millions of voices calling for change."



What the fuck ever happened to that dude? I want that dude as President!

PB

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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. Yep. Yes we can became no we can't pretty quickly.
Not surprising at all with that bunch of Professional Losers.
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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. That guy doesn't exist.
It was just someone playing a part. A somewhat pathetic, spineless, naive man who seems to have given up any hope or desire to be reelected.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. I don't get it. How do you work your entire life for something- only to tap out?
How does that work?

PB
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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. I don't understand it either.
I bought into his candidacy as much as anyone else. I probably bought into his life story a bit too much too. I'm sure his parents would both be proud that he became president, but would they be proud of the job he's done? I can't imagine they would. They both seemed like fighters.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #36
48. Maybe it was just a matter of checking off an item on his life "to do" list?
:shrug:
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #48
198. It Must Have Read
Become a one-term president of the USA.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
118. IMO,
Money,Money,Money, Mon hay...........
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #31
183. It makes perfect sense when you see all he is, is just another corporate tool.
Remember when reports came out that he was lying about NAFTA during his campaign? That's exactly what he was doing, lying to us, and, now we can see he wasn't just lying about NAFTA.

My thoughts about Obama is I don't think he's a sell-out, rather he's a corporate tool who the corporate power saw as their best choice to replace Bush with given the attitude of the public at large after eight years of Bush and the Repubs.

As a Democrat Obama is invisible to me. And its my humble opinion that we cannot trust anyone who makes it to the White House to represent us irregardless if they are an (R) or a (D). The reason is because given the current lack of knowledge displayed by the average American, the ineptness and apathy displayed by the average American with regard to politics and economics. Because of this, corporate powers and their vast wealth have taken over control of everything. They own and control everything, and all the pundits in the MSM who the average American gets all their news from are just courtiers of the corporate power.

Nothing will change until the system itself is changed with regard to corporate person-hood status. Until then corporate money will continue to controll everything.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #183
216. Unfortunately For The System To Change We Have To Reach Rock Bottom......
We seem to be on a free-fall to that point. The only hope is that we reach it quickly and without too much suffering for us 98% of the people.

Something has to happen for us to begin to put things back in order. The coporatists need to have their come to Jesus moment - for us to recover.

That won't happen until they realize that they drained us dry and that there is no more money for them to make given their current way of doing business.

Do you feel that we're all in some real Sim City simulation game and the players are making all the wrong moves?
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Kyad02 Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #183
245. Coulden't agree more
Well put, We are doomed when multi national corporations control the MSM, the government and the brainwashed citicxens. It's hopeless I'm afraid. I live in NJ, a so called "blue" state and 99% of the people I know support the Tea Bagger mentality.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #183
331. You are right about this, Xicano.
Have you seen the movie, Inside Job?
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #331
333. Thanks JDPriestly.
I've been meaning to see the movie, but, haven't yet got the opportunity. I intend to though.

:hi:


Peace,
Xicano
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
120. Good Candidate. Poor President.
For which America is now the poorer.

Change ... where have you gone?
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Mink2 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #120
295. Hope is still here
Change,gone but it will return, Don't give up.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
168. I love him and have staunchly defended him ...
against all of the ridiculousness from both the left and right, but I will be pretty disappointed if they cave on this ...

This is the right thing, first off, and it is a winning political battle ...

This is put all of your chips on the table and go all in time, and let things play out one way or another ...

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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #168
188. I'm with you
But for me this is the point when I am about to tune out of politics for the sake of my own health.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
214. Did that dude ever really exist? I wonder.
:shrug:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #214
256. Seems To Me That "The DUDE" Has Become Nothing More That "A DUD!" n/t
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
218. You want that dude?
then call madison ave. They were the ones that sold us that dude.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
316. Personally, I'd like to get off this Obama carousel of capitulation .... !!!
People are wising up here -- some very pertinent questions being asked --

they should have been asked two years ago!!

We have to stop voting for the candidates that TPB are giving us -- that's

simply built-in betrayal we're voting for !!

On computers, no less!!!


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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. 'We were only following orders.'



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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
156. Dude, you should have warned us that you'd have a picture of Boehner on your post.
Now, I'll have to spray my eyes for an hour to wash the stupid off.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. I am going to wait and see what he does
However, I do not intend to hold my breathe
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
130. Yes. Stay tuned for next weeks episode as Obama...
comes home to save us from his own commission.

This is like watching a soap-opera. (or a scam)

The commission are the really, really bad cops and Obama will not take what they recommend laying down!

He will offer us something still nasty but not as nasty as what they offered.

We will be soooooo relieved(feel saved)and we will defend the shit he puts on the table.

Stay tuned for the next episode of "As the People get Hope". Same time same station.


Dog and pony show. That is all.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. The way forward here is F@#K#$G obvious to me here. Tell me if I'm wrong...
...if the Republicans won't cooperate, allow the tax cuts to expire and blame the Republicans.

When people complain that they are paying higher taxes, explain that the country that you wanted to keep taxes down, but the Republicans chose to protect those making $250,000 +

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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. That's one good plan.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 01:30 AM by AtheistCrusader
A better one would be extend the cuts only for people making less than say... 100k.

Edit :(better plan IMO, I of course can't prove it's better than yours. Yours IS good.)
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liberalmike27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
34. I like this one
It includes about 80-85 percent of all families, and I guarantee you most people who make less than 100K won't be feeling sorry for them.

Amazing how they manage in the SS suggestions want to cut the top rate back from 35 to 23 percent, AND at the same time levy a 15 cent per gallon tax on gasoline.

Like I've been saying for ten years on message boards, it isn't about raising taxes, it's about who is going to get their taxes raised.

Add to that, Mobile, AL just raised their sales tax to ten percent, and Chickasaw, a nearby community just went to 10.5 cents per dollar.

Today I'm feeling very noticeable anger in the air, more than ever, and increasing steadily. They've goaded the rabble today more than we can take almost.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. That gas tax is regressive as hell
Its insulting that it would even be suggested, while reducing the top marginal tax rates. Disgusting.
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SlimJimmy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #34
153. It also includes the firefighter and teacher who make a bit
over 100k when you combine their salaries. But hey, they're rich, right? Let's just raise their taxes - they deserve it for being wealthy.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #153
324. Only that "bit over 100k" will be taxed at the higher rate
So the bulk of teacher/firefighter couples will pay no more, or a margnially higher amount of taxes.

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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
124. We need to return to the tax system of the '50's
Progressive rates all the to the top, with NO loopholes. Of course there has to be "protectionist" tariffs to restore industry to America. It is either that or "compete" with 50 cents a day labor......
It seems to me that these "reality shows", keeping up with the Kardishians, sweet 16, etc.. would piss off the masses. Watching all of that excessive wealth, while the masses are suffering. Instead, it is a great escape, those people deserve that money..........unfuckingbelievable.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #124
213. While I totally agree with you, it ain't gonna happen. I never "guarantee"....
......ANYTHING, but I will guarantee you that.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #124
318. True ... but 20 years ago, Mario Cuomo pointed out that if we at that point wanted
to increase taxes on the wealthy we'd have to call out the National Guard!!

Imagine where we are now?!!

The bailouts were the largest financial coup d'etat every pulled off -- $12 trillion?

From the Revolutionary War to 1990's our total debt was $12 trillion -- !!


Bailouts and sell-outs is what we're being offered --

We're on the sell-out end!!

Everyone has to begin to figure this out -- and develop a Plan B together!!!

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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #124
327. The Greatest Generations taxes worked. Let's do what they did and make us great again!
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. That's an excellent strategy, but it requires a willingness to fight,
which makes it totally unsuitable for this administration.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. That would require some spine,
and some effort to get the Democratic message (if there even IS such a thing anymore) out.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
41. On January 2 the Republican House
with great publicity passes a law reducing all tax brackets to what they were on December 30.

That bill gets sent to Harry Reid in the Senate where it ..... ?

Is passed and is sent to the president who vetoes it?

Is never voted on and dies?

How is that going to be blamed on the Republicans?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #41
69. Senate could filibuster. And I don't give a rat's whisker whom it gets blamed on.
At some point, the lollipops in D.C. need to do what's right for America and Americans. Hell, rethugs do what is wrong for most of America and get people to vote for them anyway.


The remedy for lousy public relations skills is better and better public relations skills, not crappier and crappier federal laws and policies.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
104. Begs the question: Why wait until January 2, 2011? Democrats have controlled Congress since 2006
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 06:10 AM by No Elephants
and Repubicans would have been more cautious about alienating voters, then. For that, matter, we still controlled Congress and many Blue Dogs have nothing left to lose, so why can't a Democratic house force Republicans in the Senate to block "Obama tax cuts?"

And when will endless excuses cease being enough for us?


(Too late to edit my first reply.)
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #104
284. You're right about that
the Congress should have voted on this long ago. It should have passed a budget and it should have passed some estate tax law before it expired.

The estate tax has copst tens of millions or more this year alone because congress just didn't do its job.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #41
175. the Fin House ...
SHOULD have run a bill extending the middle class/lower class cuts two months ago if democrats had the first god darned clue as to what was best for them/the country, and after getting pasted last week and absolutely NOTHING to lose right now, they darn well SHOULD have the bill on the blocks now ...

Only sitting on their friggen laps in fear has somehow gotten them to a point where a SURE winner could somehow turn against them ...
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #175
285. I agree
with you.
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
97. Obama will just not allow the Republicans to look bad ...
... and then he'll act surprised when the voters send him more of them.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
172. It is stone cold, not ifs, ands or buts obvious ...
1) It simply is the right god darned thing to do ...
2) It is a winner politically ...

Again, if this was holdum, the dems are getting dealt a pair of aces ... In holdum, you never has a sure winner, and you have to tread carefully with 99.5% of the hands you are dealt ... But, bullets have by far the greatest chance of winning out, and when you have them, you push all in and let the chips fall where they fall ...

THIS is the fight you have if you are ever going to fight ...

It IS very obvious, and it just pains me that the dems didn't draw into this two months ago, because it would have had a profound positive effect on the election last year, but if they didn't do it then, they darn well SHOULD do it now ...
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
190. If we cave
The Republicans will get credit for pressuring Obama to give regular folks a tax cut. I can see the talking points all over the media.
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
254. He could say, "They proposed no way to fund it. I had to veto it."
That's the truth.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #254
313. Or, "Their proposal wasn't deficit neutral, fiscally we just couldn't make it happen". (Shuck's)
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
280. That's a pretty good idea...
given the state of our economic demise, let the fucking tax cuts END! And blame the repugnants for fighting for the millionaires.

I'm with ya!

Hell, aren't the repugnants and teabaggers screaming about DEFICITS, DEFICITS, DEFICITS????

Bring back the tax rates of their wonderful leader, raygun!
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. guess they don't want ANY DEMOCRATIC voters anymore
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #40
164. Not Trojan horse
just Trojan. Somebody is acting like rubber here.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. Is there nothing they will stand up for? nt
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Altoid_Cyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
86. I'm pretty sure that they stand up quickly when greeting their corporate masters.
I'll still give Pres. Obama some leniency to prove himself, but at some point things are going to have to start to resemble "change".

Maybe a Feingold / Grayson challenge in 2012 might bring back the change that we were promised.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. What a spineless coward.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
92. Not just a coward, but politically an idiot.
Why would voters support Democrat in two years if Obama just does everything that he's told to do by Republicans?
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #92
161. Spot on
It's time to get someone in the White House who will stand up to Republicans, get rid of Bush's policies, and govern like a Democrat.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #92
181. This is a deal breaker ...
I agree, it will hurt MUCH more than anything else with dems ... AND, while Rs will gleefully lap up this victory, they of course will still go after him like he was the spawn of the devil ...

This is THE fight to have, the line to draw in the sand ...
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #92
292. Actually, the real truth is that he's complicit...
He's neither cowardly nor politically an idiot. He may as well just switch parties and be done with it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #292
312. Exactly ... but at least the posts trying to alibi for him are stopping .... !!! What now?
What's Plan B, folks?

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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #292
321. + 1
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 10:06 PM by MissDeeds
He is indeed complicit, and should switch parties now. No true Democrat would follow the course this president has followed.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
174. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. shocked and sickened
This reminds me of what we went through with health care. At the end of it all, nothing for me. I still have no health care.

Really, this is it for me. If they let the wealthy have their tax cuts, I am through with politics forever. I will never vote again. This government and this administration is a farce.


Cher

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cilla4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. That's where I'm headed
and I was a PoliSci major in college! My approach is: I just can't take it seriously.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I'll vote, but only for real Democrats or third party Liberals
I'll never vote again for Obama or any other Right Wing "Dem".
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. Anyone who votes for this is NO Democrat. Period.
No exceptions. line in the sand.

If this goes through, I am DONE.
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
83. And that's exactly what they're counting on
I sympathize completely though, I'm just sick about most everything he does and what's happening in this country in general. Hang in there, these things have their waves and who can say what's ahead? It'll be at least a little better if we all keep working on the change we want to see.
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
95. I agree, same for me. n/t
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trud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
143. Re: "I am through with politics forever. I will never vote again"
Don't do that. Instead support only true Progressives. The problem with Obama is that, as his detractors said during the campaign, he really had no record, just talk, so we voted for what he said and wound up with something else.

We need to support people who are genuine Progressives, unless we think giving up on this mess is okay and dooming our kids and grandkids. I'm sure Washington was pretty discouraged during the Revolutionary War. He didn't give up.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #143
169. Well said
And welcome to DU! Glad to have another progressive on board.

:hi:
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #143
222. The Problem Is How Do You Spot A Genuine Progressive?.....
I thought Obama was a genuine progressive. We were duped.

Even the TeaParty candidates that sold their line of BS to the electorate are now going back on their words.

It appears that most everyone that runs for office - says what they think the electorate want them to say and then when they get elected - they cave and do their own thing or serve the corporatists and get corrupted by the system.



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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
176. Ouch
That hurts, really hurts, but only because it is so true.

I wrote dozens of letters, donated money, did what I could to influenceour Democratic "representatives" to enact a real HCR plan. What we got addresses not one of my issues and helps me not one iota. Yes there is some benefit to a relative few and perhaps years from now many will be able to get insurance that cannot today but the reality is the plan is a big fat pile of crap.

A co-worker told me yesterday that taxes will go up soon because there will be gridlock in regards to the tax cuts. I replied he should not worry because Obama will cave. I thought he might at least put up at least a whimper first.

Oh well, another few decades squandered. It is beginning to look like I will not live long enough to see real change that I can believe in.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
13. I wish I could say I'm surprised.
I really do.


If you'd told me this could have happened on the campaign trail, I would have laughed in your face.
Who's the sucker now huh? HUH?


Oh yeah. Me.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
17. Everyone chill the fuck out!
He's got this!

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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. What does he have? Definitely not a spine.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Or guts.
Or principles.

Or any sense of loyalty to those who had such faith in him.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. You forgot the sarcasm thingy . nt
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. It shouldn't be necessary anymore, as patently absurd as has become the notion
that he's got control of anything.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. +1,000
That is probably the most astute observation I'll read today- you're right. It needs no sarcasm tag. The irony of it now is as self-evident to anyone and everyone reading as was the seriousness it was meant in, when it was originally posted in 2008.

PB
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
60. Oooh, I mocked a slogan!
How smart of me!

I am BRILLIANT!
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. That's all it ever was; a slogan
like the rest of the false advertising.
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. It later morphed into a Rap-Jingle. Its almost criminal
to have given so many hurting people a renewed sense of ' Hope ' and that REAL HISTORICAL CHANGE had finally arrived only to see it fragment and whittle away at every turn.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #60
71. Who's slogan?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #60
74. Brilliant? You?
OK.
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #60
99. Is it smarter to use a slogan?
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #60
244. No, I'm mocking the personality cultism that ripped through this place
like typhoid through a 19th century tenement block.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #244
261. +1 n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
65. LOL
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
221. HA!
:spray:
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. This could be my line in the sand. I honestly believed him when he said he would not extend the tax
cuts to the top 2%.

I don't think I can believe him anymore. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
70. For me, twice occurred before Inauguration Day. And I've stopped counting. If I
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 04:06 AM by No Elephants
could turn back time, though, I'd probably still vote for him in the primary and the general. I just would not donate again--not to him anyway. And, sadly, I don't see anyone else on the horizon for 2011-2012.


I'm sad.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
100. He's pretty much lied about absolutely everything.
I have never been so disappointed with a politician in my life.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
180. I would be deeply disappointed ...
I have defended him STAUNCHLY against attacks from both the right and left, but this is a drop dead winning line in the sand ...

THIS is the battle to have ...

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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
24. "We have to deal with the world as we find it,"

Then what are we paying you for?
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. His "Hope and Change" slogan is becoming as much of an embarrassment
as Bush's "Mission Accomplished" banner. Unreal.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Unreal is right. I told all my kids about Obama and what he stood for and Bush, and...
...what he stood for. They're little kids, you try to show them examples in the world of people, people who you think can really make a difference.

People who will hopefully (collectively) inspire your children to realize they can change the world.

Nah, looks like Dad was just taken in by a big fat fucking line of bullshit.

PB
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
79. You weren't alone
Even this old cynical red fell for the smooth talking corporatist. Looks like things are going as planned. Fuck up the midterms then plead I am powerless. I'm sure some of the big money will help him get elected. Could we jsut oncew have a leader who isn't a coward.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
134. +1
Profound disappointment.

:cry:


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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
201. +1
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. His statement reminds me of Rumsfeld
saying that we have to take the military the way it is (and still fight useless wars!)
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
50. compare that attitude to...
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 02:49 AM by 0rganism
(A senior Bush aide, probably Rove) said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that realityjudiciously, as you willwe'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
( Ron Suskind / Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush )

Axelrod is still playing by the old rules. Nothing has been learned. People desire confident certainty from leaders, whether or not this certainty is rightfully placed. Obama won the presidency by exuding supreme confidence in the vision he inspired in his followers. The next person to win the presidency, regardless of political affiliation, will do it the same way.

For a sitting president, errors in fact and ethical shortcomings are easily forgiven, but perceived weakness is a mortal sin.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #50
91. Agree (mostly). Axelrod's job is, and for a long time, has been, to get Obama elected
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 05:26 AM by No Elephants
President and re-elected, period. Even heading Deval Patrick's 2006 campaign was part of Axelrod's helping Obama get elected.

His job now is to make sure we blame "the system," or elected Republicans, or Obama's critics (including "the left," if deemed necessary to shield Obama) and, if push comes to shove, other elected Democrats. IOW, "blame anybody but Obama (BABO)" and "It's OK if Obama does it (IOKIODI). We'll see if Axelrod succeeds in this phase of his job.


"Obama won the presidency by exuding supreme confidence in the vision he inspired in his followers."

I submit that is only part of the reason. A perfect storm existed for Obama's election and for voting for inspiring words (Axelrod's--used first publicly in Patrick's campaign) and for hope and bold change, rather than looing forward to more of the same (as, say, those willing to vote for Nixon after 8 years of Ike).

The "perfect storm" included, yes, Obama's personal charisma and his family's. However, as we know all too well, many voters in this country still don't see past race.

IMO, bigger parts the "perfect storm" were: 8 years of Bushco; the obvious drawbacks of the only serious opposition (Hillary and her baggage, and then the McCain Palin ticket); and (decisive blow) the shocking news, fairly close to voting time--and still under Bush--of massive economic collapse and McCain's erratic, sometimes bizarre, reactions to the news.

Thanks for the Rove quote. I wish I could say I thought it was all bs, but, while somewhat overblown, it summarizes a lot of my frustration with how Republicans win, despite the repulsiveness of their positions.


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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #91
129. And, our wonderful Media, for
minimizing anyone who was really anti-PTB, like Kucinich.....
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #129
146. Yep. I "love" the RPM (Republicon Propaganda Media).
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 07:44 AM by No Elephants
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #91
189. I don't think throwing in the towel without throwing a single punch will do it
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #91
294. that was Rove's job for W, too, so the positions are comparable
We'll see who's better at it in 2012.

>> Obama won the presidency by exuding supreme confidence in the vision he inspired in his followers
> I submit that is only part of the reason.
But would you agree that it's an important factor? Indeed, I would go so far as to say that it's necessary unless one's opponents are total douchebags.

It's not just about winning, though, it's about getting one's policies enacted after an electoral victory. Having Obama's smiling face and perfect diction in the whitehouse is a welcome relief after 8 years of The Decider, but he's missed opportunity after opportunity to lead. In this age of perpetual campaigns (and now unfettered corporate influence) any signs of presidential weakness are liabilities themselves, cracks in the foundation of popularity which the opposition will exploit to the fullest.

For all their countless flaws, Karl Rove and the republicans seem to understand this.

Perhaps Obama takes seriously the media's exhortations for him to compromise at every turn to coax republican favor, without receiving any cross-aisle support in return. If so, he's getting remarkably poor advice and will definitely be a one term president, as he will have shown himself and his cabinet quite incapable of strong, independent leadership.
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
101. The thing is, he's NOT dealing with it. He's just standing there letting it blow past him.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. time to add a macro to my computer - 'White House Gives In On...' fill in blank
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 01:59 AM by tomm2thumbs

gonna need that for the next 2 years - not that it wouldn't have been used quite a bit these last 2 already

My guess is:

They knew if they let them expire, the votes were there to pass it in the new House and Senate - and Obama would have to veto an entire tax cut bill to stop the top percent cut - and he wouldn't be able to rely on it being a veto-proof majority and they did not want the GOP getting the credit for the tax cut generally.

That is my guess - however, it sounds like they could have broken it into parts and done the under-250k cut first and let the members stand in the spotlight fighting for the richest to get billions in cuts and play it how it may.

Filthy, just filthy

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mazzarro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
35. Well, Well, Well
This is the biggest disappointment coming from this administration - a continued "spinelessness" and sense of purpose as a democrat. I have lost all hope and faith in this administration!
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
38. Obama, the Trojan Horse. I don't want to borrow more money to give to the rich.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
39. Presumably Obama has read the New Testament.
Curious how he takes as role models both Judas Iscariot and King Herod when he had other options (The Good Samaritan comes to mind).
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #39
62. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
43. Can has new party nao?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #43
103. That may well depend upon how badly YOU want one. And, whether you can get the left wing equivalent
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 05:56 AM by No Elephants
of the Koch Bros (hopefully, less evil) to fund your efforts.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #103
113. Someone needs to start an American Labor Party. n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #113
128. LOL
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #113
314. Labor and women -- unions --- meanwhile notice how QUIET the liberal orgs are ....
Same problem that we've been having here at DU -- they don't want to

face the reality that it's a Democratic president doing this!!!

Well -- time to wake up, folks!!!

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ignatzmouse Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
44. Goddamn it, man. Are you afraid of a fight?
We continue with the idiocy of throwing away every piece of negotiating leverage before any negotiations begin. This issue is tailor made to FORCE the Repugs out into the open on both the deficit and the middle class. But here we have Obama being cowed once again into wringing his hands in the corner. He's so damn fond of citing Reagan as a presidential example. The ONE thing that he could learn from Reagan is to HAVE SOME BALLS.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. He's happy enough to fight against those of us who elected him. nt
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #44
82. As Fred Flintstone used to say...
DINOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

"This issue is tailor made to FORCE the Repugs out into the open"

Perhaps it did just that? POTUS = DINO?

I'm fairly certain he has balls, big ones. Looks to me like he's doing this either because he believes in it (likely IMHO) or he is little more than a sock puppet for the real rulers.

It's pretty obvious at this point that this man is not who we thought he was, and certainly not who he told us he was.

Ouch. This hurts. No true Democrat would support this.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #82
235. Probably both. He believes and is a sock puppet for the real rulers. I'd go with that.
He apparently CAN have it both ways.
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
45. Barack LIEberman.
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #45
52. Why do I get the eerie feeling that his intention was to continue
the BUSH Era Tax Cuts for the Wealthiest from the get-go and the rest was nothing more than political theater to appease the masses?
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Not at all far fetched; that was the first thing I thought of when they chose
to delay the vote until AFTER the election.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #45
96. Ouch.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 05:46 AM by No Elephants
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Barbara2423 Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
46. Weak Leaders: That's the reason the Dems lost not the economy.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 02:31 AM by Barbara2423
Democratacs need a third party. One that has Democratic values and can stand and fight against the republicans. There is no helping this Administration, they just don't get it.
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #46
89. I agree, but
this country is setup for 2 parties, long odds against a 3rd party making it.

And besides, the Democratic Party historically has the right values, so it's really OUR party, not theirs. Maybe we just need to do a good house-cleaning? I'd get behind someone like Dean or possibly Grayson.

How 'bout we primary Obama with Oprah? That would be a lot of fun.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #46
98. If Democrats had been more effective, the economy would have been better, anyway.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
47. It's a LIE
The Middle Class is no longer or is getting smaller and smaller. They're disappearing everyday. Millions of jobs are oversea now, gone from USA. Might as well let tax cuts for the middle class go to allow tax cuts for the rich to expire.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #47
58. Yes and those jobs are never coming back.
Our president and our Congress are too weak to make the structural changes it would take to bring our jobs back.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #47
286. The Middle Class is now
referred to as 'The Former Middle Class.' I'm sorry you didn't get the memo on that.

If we can't increase the millionaire's tax rate back to the level under their idol, raygun, then we are truly BOHICA.
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
51. Since the election the desire to leave this nation forever...
...enters my head at least once a day. I'm thinking Italy or Luxembourg.
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The Northerner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. I'm hoping that this isn't true but I'm planning on considering my chances
on whether to emigrate to the Netherlands or somewhere in Scandinavia if this is true.
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #51
102. I also am looking but the euro is to high. n/t
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Gator_Matt Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #51
144. Me too.
New Zealand looks nice.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. Maybe they're part of that Wealthiest Group who desperately need the Bush tax cuts
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 03:05 AM by Segami
in order to feed & clothe their kids. :sarcasm:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #56
253. If so, I'm guessing it was inherited wealth.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #53
75. Not ONE "ignored" poster.
And believe me, my ignore list is long~~!
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #75
109. I noticed that too. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
indy legend Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #59
142. All hail the compromiser-n-chief.
from hope and change to spineless, gutless failure in only two years.
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anAustralianobserver Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
61. This is so scary. Why can't it be split into 2 parts in the lame duck session? I'm confused.
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BlueStater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
63. I was hoping my intial doubts about him were wrong.
But so far he's proven himself to as much of a wuss as the rest of them. He better get his fucking act together soon because we're all going to pay for the consequences of his spinelessness.
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urbuddha Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
67. I'm ready to leave the Democratic Party now...I've had it. The Socialist Party is a better idea.
Goodbye Dems. Hello Socialist Party.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #67
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #67
121. Welcome aboard-except we have no money or organization
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Loudmxr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
72. Watch this. They will cave. Letting the cuts expire will be the best thing for the debt.
Look. More taxes will just mean a few more hundred dollars for most of us. If that much. It depends on how you legally work the tax system. Remember most millionaires pay about 16-20%. Really. If you pay more than that....

For most of the American people they didn't even know or appreciate the tax cuts our President got for them. So screw them.

But the Demos will cave and give the rich everything they want.

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katnapped Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #72
122. Debatable at that
More taxes will just mean a few more hundred dollars for most of us. If that much.

This of course, assuming you have a job. If not, well sucks to be you then!
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
73. just like that? forever?
man that was fast.

oh well it's only billions and i'm sure we can pay for it by cutting things that help students, the middle class and the elderly.

:wtf: :banghead:
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
76. recommend
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
77. As a middle class-ish guy - I'll gladly give up mine if they have to give up theirs
we will have NO infrastructure in this country AT ALL if we don't start taxing the hell out of the rich! Why can people not see this>? :(
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urgk Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #77
136. +1 n/t
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #77
145. +2
Nothing intelligent to add, other than

Fuckity-fuck-fuck!

:thumbsdown:
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
81. So I get a few bucks extra--for WHAT?
This would slightly effect me. I don't need it. I think I should ask the guy that does my taxes
to calculate how much less I'll be paying in taxes, and put it away for contributions to the
campaigns of any future Alan Grayson candidacy, or maybe Bernie Sanders, or Howard's DFA.

Too bad the country can't see fit to spend it on its own citizenry rather than further line the
already bulging pockets of the "me" generation.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
84. the world as I find it at this point really sucks
I guess two more years is what it will take to really drown this country in homelessness and death

Never again, ever, will I fall for the silver tongue speeches.

There were millions of us that want CHANGE and we got nothing.

Of course the pukes had no legislative or political realities facing them in 08, just a bunch of cronies with excuses.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
85. I knew it.......
the gutless, cave in party, that I used to support, did it again. They really don't get it. Obama is turning out to be a hugh failure. Next move, cutting social security for billionaires.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
87. Get ready for 2 years of capitulation
:(
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #87
106. It's already here. :-(
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katnapped Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #87
126. Stock up on cat food now!
Beat the holiday rush!
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #87
192. I've gotten used to it after the last two years of capitulation. n/t
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #192
196. Indeed. I should have said 2 'MORE' years
:(
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
88. Anyone who didn't see this coming was just blind.
Come on, the guy gives in to Republicans on just about everything.
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LawnKorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
90. Disappointment
We need to have the rich pay their fair share.
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FlyByNight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
93. Not surprised
The administration, with the Rs, doesn't seem serious about meaningful debt/deficit reduction. The wars/occupations (and Pentagon bloat) and Bush-era tax cuts are a huge part of the problem and they're, essentially, not up for discussion.

Keeping the tax-cuts for the wealthy will cost how many hundreds of billions? A trillion? Afghanistan continues to be a goddamn money pit and Iraq is nothing but a re-branded, low-key occupation.

President Cave-first-then-compromise is weak, soft and seems to lack core principles. Way to rally the base Mr. President! He hasn't learned a thing. (Although, I'm starting to wonder who is "base" really is.)

:banghead:
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sweetapogee Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #93
149. but...
keep in mind we are still getting free health care and coverage for pre-existing conditions. Win some, lose some, eom
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
94. Where are all those that said this wouldn't happen?
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #94
239. +1. nt
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
107. "Change"
Your ass.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
111. I knew this would happen when the Senate balked on the tax vote.
And it was probably in the works long before that. So much for hope and change.
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instantkarma Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
112. IT'S PROPAGANDA. WAKE UP.
Fineman and Stein are leading you around by your emotional reactionary noses.


The title states the proposition as a fact.
In the first paragraph the authors claim Axelrod "suggests" that the proposition will become a fact.
In the seventh paragraph Axelrod is quoted as saying "the president's commitments haven't changed," meaning the proposition is not a fact, and the proposition will not be considered until the commission report is released Dec. 1.

So in summary...

This story states that the proposition is a fact, the proposition will become a fact and the proposition is not a fact. Fineman and Stein are completely full of shit. Wake the fuck up.

That's not to say that the title of the article won't become true. It may. My point is that it's currently not true as stated in the title, and the authors are bullshitting all of us. And from reading the replies on this thread, it seems they've done a pretty good job of it.

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SharksBreath Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #112
114. Propaganda: Just like Obama
was for the public option. He sure fought for it by bargaining it away from the beginning.

Hun.
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instantkarma Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #114
125. Funny how life is.
We all make up stories.

I have a story about how, once Obama assumed office and began to actually work on health reform, he quickly recognized a public option would never pass the Senate. Coming to the presidency from the seat of a first-term senator and not having the clout on the hill of say, LBJ, who was minority leader, majority leader and president of the senate; or FDR, who was a Roosevelt, after all, Obama knew he couldn't bully people into voting the way he wanted them to. So he worked to pass what he could. Sure, he dropped the public option early on, and that was a severe blow to progressives, me included, but he also managed to get some very important issues addressed (even as some others got punted down the road to the next generation.

But that's just my story. Maybe it's what really happened, maybe it isn't. The thing is, I don't assume that my story is true, or that I'm right and you're wrong.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #112
116. That fact that Axelrod is "suggesting" it is disconcerting enough
If Fineman and Stein are feeding us propaganda, it's just icing on Axelrod's turdcake.
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instantkarma Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #116
132. That is not a fact.
"that Axelrod is suggesting it" is only a claim by the two authors. Do you get the difference? The authors are the ones who actually wrote that phrase, "Axelrod suggests" (or whatever form of suggest they used) followed by a bunch of partial quotes which might seem to verify their claim. That doesn't mean that Axelrod actually suggested that. Have you considered that they might be lying? I don't know if they are or not, but I certainly don't assume they're telling the truth. The thing to recognize is the difference between Axelrod suggesting something and the authors claiming Axelrod suggested something. There's a big difference.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #132
173. Uh huh
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 08:22 AM by deutsey
:eyes:

And if your interpretation is correct, I would hope Axelrod calls them on it.

I'll be waiting...
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instantkarma Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #173
184. It's about reading comprehension
I'm not making any claim as to whether he actually suggested it or not.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #184
207. What this might also speak to is the Administration's ham-fisted way of "communicating"
Why is anyone even suggesting such a thing to reporters?

I'm not a DC insider, but I can confidently say that the corporate-owned media in general love to spin and distort, unless they're simply parroting talking points as many of them did under Bush/Rove.

And if Fineman spun in a propagandistic fashion what Axelrod suggested, the Administration should have an effective communication strategy in place that immediately counters that spin.

Just a suggestion on my part, though.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #184
228. Looks the WH is shooting back, which I'm glad to see
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/the_...

However, I still stand by my point that they seem to have the Keystone Kops doing their communications.

I'm sick of them always crouching in reaction mode, which this WP story illustrates all too well.
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speppin Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #112
137. Axelod's statements speak
loud and clear. The WH has caved.

.....Although the president "took the position he felt was the right position" -- favoring a continuation of the cuts only for families earning up to $250,000 -- Axelrod portrayed this "optimal" stance as unrealistic in the lame-duck Congress that begins next week.

For one, time is not on the administration's side. All of the tax cuts, enacted in 2001 and 2003, will expire at the end of this year unless Congress acts. The Republicans in effect "built in tax increases," Axelrod said. And separating out different categories of tax cuts now -- extending some without extending others -- is politically unrealistic and procedurally difficult, he added.
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instantkarma Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #137
166. Axelrod's actual statements
Assuming that Fineman and Stein are reporting them correctly:

"took the position he felt was the right position"
"optimal"
"built in tax increases"

That's it, at least in the portion of the article you included. How are those two short phrases and one word "loud and clear"?

"...unrealistic in the lame-duck congress..."
"...politically unrealistic and procedurally difficult..."

Those are statements by Fineman and Stein, not Axelrod. There's a difference between what Axelrod said and what they claim he said. There are reasons why some words and phrases are quoted and some aren't.

Axelrod also said "the president's commitments haven't changed." Now maybe they will after Dec. 1, but according to Axelrod they haven't yet.

You believe whatever you want.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #112
157. Maybe. I remember a lot of posts like yours about the public option and mandate, though.
My theory. SOMETIMES (not always) when bad news is headed our way from the WH, the WH leaks several times ahead of giving the actual announcement. That way, by the time we learn it for sure, it seems like a "duh."


Kind of like innoculations. you get sicker from the shot than you do when the virus hits you full force.
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instantkarma Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #157
177. Could be.
My whole reason for posting is to point out that this article is making a statement in the title that is later contradicted in the article. The responses are what really bothers me, seeing how so many people just seem to fall for it hook, line and sinker. To me that is very sheep-like, tea-bagger type behavior, just being so ready to swallow any crap thrown out there as long as it provides confirmation to one's belief system.
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Kyad02 Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #177
252. Why would I NOT believe it
Obama has caved on everything else. Remember "the robust public option" he preached about right up to the sell out "reform" bill was passed?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #177
258. I understood your analysis and it was a good one.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 10:06 AM by No Elephants
"My whole reason for posting is to point out that this article is making a statement in the title that is later contradicted in the article."

Your posts suggest maybe that was not your whole and only reason. However, I have zero quarrel with good posts, no matter which side the poster is on. To the contrary, I appreciate them. I used to feel I learned so much here.


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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #112
170. +100
Thank you. It took a while but I do see one rational response, thank God.
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instantkarma Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #170
194. Thanks and you're welcome.
The crap is getting harder and harder to slog through.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #194
299. Like spam in the mailbox, we need a new filter.
If message contains

The President is a p***y +
Huffington Post said he +
It's the end of the world +
We need to primary him OR
I'm leaving the Democratic party =

junk.
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #112
237. good catch, thought it sounded fishy
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #112
283. Your "summary" is quite flawed
The seventh paragraph quote you referred to saying "the president's commitments haven't changed" was referring to the comments made by the co-chairs of the Cat Food Commission. That quote had nothing to do with ending the Bush tax cuts. I can understand your wish that it were true...that the quote could be attributed to the Bush tax cuts. But it doesn't. If it were true, Axelrod would have demanded a retraction from Fineman and Stein. But he hasn't.

Your subsequent posts throughout this thread have been amusing to say the least, but reality is screaming at you to wake up and realize you can't continue putting lipstick on this pig. We better damn well fight the elites on this one. Leaving our children and grandchildren with additional debts is unconscionable.
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
115. Obama's not an agent of change.He is an agent,though.
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katnapped Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #115
123. Sure he's an agent of change!
Making sure your change (and dollars) go rightfully to where they belong!
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
117. Gee... what a surprise.
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
119. Can We Try To Fight!!!


Damn!
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
127. Did any of us expect him to do anything but cave in? Feingold 2012!
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
131. I guess the Republicans must have 60 Senators now.
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #131
148. Repukes garnered more leverage as a minority than Dems did holdin a Majority in BOTH houses & the WH
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
133. may be an exercise in futility, but i wrote to him and requested a response
Dear President Obama,

i read in the Huffington Post today, in an article citing Mr. Axelrod, that you will allow the Bush tax cuts to the very rich to expire. I felt like crying when i saw that. How long is the middle class expected to continue taking the brunt of this economic crisis while the rich continue getting richer?

Please, I am begging you, stand up for the rights of the middle-class and those in poverty. We have a broken government system where too many in Congress are advocates of the super-rich people who keep financing their re-election campaigns.

We have been so distressed by some of the compromises you have made to the right in the last two years. That is the real reason the Republicans have gained the House this year. People who would have voted for Democrats were too discouraged to show up at the polls.

You have a gift for communication. Please use it, and make your case directly to the American people.

Best wishes,
Shireen
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12AngryBorneoWildmen Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
135. Treating Diarrhea with Prune Juice
That's what this does to liberal activists' apathy.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #135
167. This is unclear- is the liberal activism the diarrhea you speak of
?
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12AngryBorneoWildmen Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #167
260.  The apathy or so-called enthusiasm gap...
is the malady exacerbated by this 'caving' elixir. Politics or hockey, I want a fight.
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R Hickey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
139. This will send GOLD thru the roof. Glen Beck will be happy.
This tells the world that the US government cannot collect taxes, and is instead watering down its currency.
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Loki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
140. I had hoped we were electing another FDR or Harry S. Truman
but now I see we have elected our Neville Chamberlain. If this is how he expects to inspire my confidence in his Presidency, he's lost me.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
141. Why does he even bother?...Why not just shrug and say "whatever you republicans want"
That's what all of this amounts to...Unbelievably spineless.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
147. Psssst, Mr. President, no matter how many times you cave to them,
republicans will never like you, they'll never support you, and they'll never work with you. The more you cave, the more they'll demand.

You've lost me, Sir.

:-(
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Jed28 Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #147
309. Republicans will never like you....
They've already stated their objective is to make sure Obama is a one term President. The more Obama compromises, the further he moves to the right. By trying to find some middle ground with Republicans, Obama only weakens himself. There is no middle ground for Republicans. Republicans aren't going to vote for the Compromiser In Chief. It appears that fewer and fewer Democrats will either.

Here's hoping Obama will show his spine and take a stand.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
150. Welcome to President Mike Pence


If you fail to make a stand then you stand for nothing.

The bush tax cuts for the rich is the single biggest driver in the national deficit.
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Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
151. I sure hope this is not true. I'd rather not have my puny tax cut if this is the case.
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eringer Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
152. Say it ain't so, Joe
The estate tax implications ensure that we will have a two-tiered society for our children. This wont last as long as this country remains free and the people can elect representatives to reverse the Bush tax cuts in the future. That will be a bloody battle, however. Maybe Obama will come to his senses and call the Republican's bluff.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
154. A tiringly familiar headline: "Obama gives in on (insert 'promise' here)"
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
155. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
158. Yeah, but for HOW LONG? They aren't saying this would be PERMANENT. It may just be they are saying
they won't de-couple the tax cuts but will extend both for two years, which is Susan Collins' idea, for example. I don't think we have all the facts here yet.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
162. ok...
DONE!I've tried! Indimuse IZ BACK...Where's Hillary?? :(
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #162
171. WWHD?
Anything different?
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #171
302. gee..
...I WOULD begin with Heath Care! (u know it!) ;)
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #162
186. Have you looked to the right of Obama--behind the baggage?
(Sorry, I couldn't help it.)
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #186
303.  ;)
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #162
197. who knows...
maybe helping overthrow another Latin American state by giving a free pass to Bush and Reagan cronies. As far as I can tell that's the most substantive thing she's done so far in her position.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #197
304. ~*FAIL*~
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #304
332. "fail" doesn't work as a burn when you have no real retort.
Ironic as it may be, your special spangled-fail (as I've just now decided to dub it) is an ultimate example of witty-discourse-fail. Good job.
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Billsmile Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
163. Hey Axelrod, I'll pay more if the rich pay more.
The Bush tax cuts are actually a burden on the former middle-class. Let'em all expire.

I'd rather pay more now than to stick my kids with the interest payments on the loan you take out for a giveaway to those who don't need it.

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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
165. And this is surprising how?
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
178. I'm not an Obama cheerleader, and, I could be wrong, but
I don't believe Obama will go back on his word on the tax cuts to the wealthy. If he does, he is done for. They are playing a game right now called give, take back, give, take back. We'll see who wins. I honestly don't believe there are many republicans who believe that the rich deserve these tax cuts. They are just so misinformed and only read lightly. Some on here are also guilty of only reading "lightly". The article does not say what the OP implied.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #178
204. It is against the economic interest of most republicans (the ones watching FAUX news) -
but the old-school guys want it, they will benefit, and it will happen. It will be sold as "stimulating the economy".

Really irresponsible to do this along with cutting entitlements and continuing to spend outrageous amounts on defense. But republicans are only responsible in one sense - keeping themselves rich.
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
179. Weak leadership at its finest. nt
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The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
182. Well golly gee, didn't see that one coming.
:sarcasm:
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
187. Not only are they not trying,
they're not even trying to look like they're trying.
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Bosso 63 Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
191. If this is true, I'm fucking done.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
193. FTB. The middle class tax cuts will only help people with jobs.
FTB!!!!!!!
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
195. ...
:banghead:
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
200. Was there ever any doubt that this would happen? nt
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
202. "No balls" Obama. What a huge fucking disappoint he is. Now on...........
.........to the dismantling of SS and privatization of Medicare. Change we can piss on.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
203. HOPE! Hope we all realize we've been DUPED.
Obama is NOT getting my vote in 2012. He's NOT the progressive we were falsely sold during the 2008 election. He's a FRAUD. F'em.
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2critical Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
205. I'll be surprised if Obama stands against the tax cuts.
He has no spine. There is no will to fight back against the class warfare the rich are waging.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
208. Do these tread marks on my face clash with my shirt?
this is getting exhausting.

Once again our glorious Dems let yet another golden opportunity slip through their fingers.

Thanks guys, way to stab us in the back!

Weeee!
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littlewolf Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
211. Ok I am going to say something that will probably

get me banned .... I remember the mod saying we could say critical things about the President ... but here goes ....

I believe one reason that President Obama gave in .... he has shallow roots .. meaning how long has he been in any elective office ...
as soon as he got elected ... he started running for the next one .... so the experience in fighting for something
just isn't there ....
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #211
249. Not sure if more time would have made a difference.
He spent a good number of years in the Illinois legislature. When the most controversial issues were up for a vote (e.g., a woman's reproductive rights), he usually voted "present" (and sometimes he was physically absent).

Supposedly, voting "present" signalled that someone was working behind the scenes to get a compromise, but I don't recall hearing what compromises he was able to attain after he voted absent. I now suspect it was more about getting himself re-elected--and maybe one day running for President--than it was about masterminding compromises behind the scenes of the Illinois legislature (not that wanting those things is wrong).

Anyhoo, Obama's career in elected office is very comparable to that of Lincoln, whom Obama tried to evoke. (I know, bc I'd make the argument about Lincoln's resume in 2007-2008 whenever anyone said Obama did not have enough experience to be Prez.) Very different approaches, though. They were very different when in legal practice, too. (Lincoln litigated a lot; Obama rarely, if ever.) I think they are just very different people in very different times.

So, as I said, I'm just not sure more time in I the U.S. Senate would have made Obama more of a fighter during his first term as President. I think he would have been playing it safe, as he did in Illinois.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
219. delete.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 09:16 AM by myrna minx
:puke:
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
220. There go the last few Dem voters
the Repukes could pitch a shutout in 2012.
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
223. "that may be the only way middle class can keep their tax cuts"!? WTF!
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 09:40 AM by BREMPRO
what kind of bassackwards negotiation logic is that?! If the wealthy can't have tax cuts, NO_ONE CAN? I hope Axelrod is speaking for himself and not the President, because this is retarded. This is an issue they have support and can win with the public and they are just apparently rolling over? I know the political balance has shifted, but the issue hasn't THEY can and SHOULD hold to principle on this issue, win or lose, or the administration will lose what support they have left. This is a tipping point in my view. THEY NEED TO MAKE A STAND ON PRINCIPLE and FIGHT!! Make it 500,000 if you have too, so "small business" isn't affected. The UBer-wealthy don't NEED tax rates lower, and the budget can't support it. I'd rather NO_ONE return to pre-bush/clinton rates than the top 1% for the sake of the budget and fiscal sanity. remember sanity?

On edit: appears that the poster of this thread did not read or honestly characterize the article. Shame. Axelrod never said they were "giving in on tax cuts" headline. the WH denies that they are "caving" on tax cuts for the wealthy. nothing has changed. Sanity restored.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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shawn703 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
224. If he does this, he has no political courage
He should take a lesson from Feingold and Grayson, and stand up for what's right even if it will cost him politically. Extending tax cuts for the wealthy is harmful for our nation, especially if to pay for them we have to cut services for those that need them. Let them expire.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
225. Well, I think I'm just about out.
It's going to take a hell of a lot to get me to fill out the next ballot that comes along, and scaring me about how much worse the Repukes are isn't going to cut it anymore.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
226. UPDATE: White House Denies Giving In On Bush Tax Cuts
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
227. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #227
336. Just to clarify, the person you're calling "zero" is Obama, right?
Edited on Fri Nov-12-10 02:06 PM by Commie Pinko Dirtbag
Because I remember seeing a similar terminology elsewhere on the Internet, don't remember exactly where, but it was a site with a very nineties-looking layout.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
229. Axelrod smaxelrod. Are we going to fuck up a soup samich now? WTF!
Better get on it people. Stop them! We cannot afford even a 2 yr capitulation.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
230. I really don't want to hear another fucking word about how important
"deficit reduction" is from ANYBODY, given how eager all of these assholes are to keep handing over tax cuts to the wealthy on a silver platter! :mad: :mad: :mad:
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
231. Robin Hood - Where Are You When We Need You?......nt
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
233. Over the top headline, refuted by WH, typical Adrianna oddball rag piece.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #233
264. Wow nothing on neath that big raincoat.
and nothing big enough to see.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
234. The suspense is OVAH! Not that there was really ever any doubt about this particular cave-in.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
236. THIS IS NOT THE PRESIDENT I VOTED FOR
FUCKING BULLSHIT.
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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
238. if this happens, count me out in 2012
I'll be voting for a liberal.


a REAL liberal!


:mad: :grr: :mad: :grr: :mad:
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #238
265. count a primary challenge in. nt
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ermasdaughter Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
240. RELAX!!!
The White House has already denied this claim: http://voi ces.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/the_morning_plum_129.html
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #240
268. Denials always go before the fall. Recall history and read between the lines.
too many times we have seen this scenario of righteous denial and fallen for it. A spokesman sends up a trial balloon, a powerful blogger shoots it in the heart and the denials are already written. Then the unthinkable in a haze of a gazillion pages of smoke and mirror nonsense.
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ermasdaughter Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
241. RELAX!!!

The White House has already denied this claim: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/the_...

This is just Huf Post doing that "flaming" thing that do. It sickening....

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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
242. *Sigh*
Looks like we will forever be ruled by wealthy special interests through our government.

Like some others have said, I feel like stepping away permanently. When all the BS and smoke has cleared nothing really changes.
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beforeyoureyes Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
243. Why would ANYONE be surprised...he is a corporate rep through and through

I am sure there will be a bunch of comments...'I will wait and see until this becomes law'...as there are everytime he sells us out.

This is so gross.
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ermasdaughter Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
246. IT"S NOT TRUE!!! THIS IS HUFFINGTON POST FLAMING!!!
It's already been debunked!
The White House has already denied this claim: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/the_ ...
This is just Huf Post doing that "flaming" thing that do. It sickening....
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #246
248. Error: Page Not Found. Also, Pox News is reporting it as true:
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 09:48 AM by crim son
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/11/white-house-... /

I hope you're right, though.

Nevermind. I found the story at a different link. It doesn't say much but it isn't confirmation of the huffpost story either.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
247. Raising taxes during a recession is so wrong.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 09:44 AM by robcon
I think it's a shame we couldn't raise the rates on the wealthiest (why is it 'across-the-board'??????
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
251. I will find it very difficult to support a second term if he rolls over on tax cuts for the rich

I was a delegate to the DNC in Boston, and I have been a member of my state's Democratic Central Committee. I chaired a caucus in my party. I am not flighty.

But I can not support this death by a thousand cuts that this Administration is pushing on us. Rolling over on tax cuts, while considering cuts to Social Security is pretty near the last straw.

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renegade000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
255. I would recommend that everyone write/call/fax
their reps and the white house to express their disapproval on this.
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Kyad02 Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
257. Compromise is NOT giving in 100%
Raising the limit from 250K to 500K is a compromise. Obama is a fraud. He's bought and paid for by big money interests.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
259. Brilliant fucking opening gambit.
In no form of n-dimensional chess, is it prudent to give away your queen as an opening move.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
262. I think the smart thing to do
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 10:09 AM by Turbineguy
for us is instead of giving money to the various parts of the Democratic party is to spend the money moving to another country. The trick is to pick one that the Republicans are not likely to nuke. What this does is give more rich donors more money to work against Americans.

Axelrod just handed the GOP the keys to the White House and Senate in 2012 and the means to pay for it.
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
263. That didn't take long at all!
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
267. I'm shocked
The administration decided to give in on a point that they knew the base didn't want. It's becoming a rather typical stance for them. The pertinent question (or impertinent, if you wish) is why?
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #267
273. Why is the most important question.
Right now I go back and forth between appeasement and collaboration.
Resistance is out of the question, they haven't shown any from day one.
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urgk Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
271. UPDATE: WH denies HuffPo story.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #271
275. by Axelrod saying the extension won't be permanent. nt
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
274. The Republican House will impeach him
But because he's the type to cave in and not fight back like Bill Clinton, he'll resign like Nixon.
In the failed presidency of Barack Obama will be remembered as "The Capitulator-in-Chief. "
Nothing more than a Wall Street appeaser.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #274
306. "appeaser" I could live with.

It's more than being just an "appeaser"; it's acting directly on Wall Street behalf.
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Urban Prairie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
276. Reagan's win vs Carter in 80 will seem like it was a much closer race than whoever the GOP runs
vs Obama in '12, if the cat-food commission's recommendations are implemented, and the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, are extended, that is, IF he runs for a second term, which at this point I am becoming less and less certain of, since he said that he would rather just be a "good" one term president. For whom has he been really "good" for, may I ask? Ex-POTUS Bush with his slimeball VP Cheney, along with the rest of his criminal administration? YES MOST DEFINITELY!! Certainly not for many of us who voted for him, based on his "hope and esp. change" progressively-dressed up platform!! The hope was a total pipe dream, and the change mostly just the party name in the Oval Office, IMO.

The Tea Party and the most of rest of the conservatives, from day one after his inauguration have despised him and still do. Why they do, other than maybe just because of the color of his skin and having a "D" after his name, I really don't know, because "they" are getting pretty much the same as McCain would have been able to accomplish, esp. with a Dem-majority Congress!! In fact, had McCain won instead there likely would not be a "Tea Party" nor may have the GOP won as many seats as they have in the House this year.
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
282. And the repubs high-five each other over this...
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 11:04 AM by Love Bug
...knowing full well they now have Obama by the short hairs.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
289. I left a note on the white house's comments page and then tried to call Mr. Axelrod
Me: Hello, may I please speak with Mr. Axelrod
WH: Name please
Me: gives name
WH: Calling in regard to?
Me: His recent comments regarding tax cuts
WH: Who are you with?
Me: No organization, calling for myself
WH: Mr Axelrod is not available, but maybe I could locate someone in the press office.
Me: Why yes, I would certainly appreciate speaking with Mr. Gibbs
WH: Mr. Gibbs would not be available, but there might be someone there who could take your call.
Me: Please do check.
WH: One moment <20 seconds goes by> No one is in the press office. This is a federal holiday. I could connect you to our comments line.
Me: No thank you. Good bye.

I think I'll try again tomorrow. :)
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #289
290. I wonder if either is ever "available" to average citizens?
Let us know if you talk to anyone tomorrow!
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
291. Some of the DUers will be believing, that this White House worked hard
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 01:53 PM by county worker
to produce a true progressive outcome but was just forced to compromise, as they chow down on their cat food.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
293. Fuck
..
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
301. Forget the middle class tax cuts. That is just pennies compared to what the rich get. Stop the
stupidity
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
305. Way to fight for what you believe in, give up before you get into the ring
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
307. Been disappointed so many times that this was expected. I hope he gets primaried out.
I got my own version of what I hope and want changed.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #307
315. I'm with you but not that simple .... TPB are providing the candidates we get to vote for....
on computers --

Pretty much we're fighting the HOUSE now .... like banking on winning in Vegas!

This is all going to take a lot of discussion and action -- and a big, big Plan B!!!

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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #315
325. We're fighting corporations, they are the real enemy.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #325
328. Elites morphed into corporations - same thing -- TPB .....
Corporatism = fascism

We've just been thru one of the greatest financial coup d'etats ever pulled off --

Our total debt since Revolutionary War thru 1990's was 12 Trillion --

in an 18 month period the BAIL OUTS were 12 Trillion!!

Bail outs and sell outs --

WE are being sold out over and again by TPB --

We are not selecting our candidates, they are being selected for us --

pre-bribed and pre-owned --

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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
308. Obama is a put-up job.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
310. What absolute garbage .... how about a RECALL on Obama ...? Unfortunately ....
that would put the corporate Biden in the presidency -- !!!

We need a truly liberal Democratic candidate in 2012!!

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maritzasolito Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
311. Just jump in and.................
What a bunch of crap!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
320. Democrat Republican, its reached the point where it matters no-more...
the "Bilderburg Group" have initiated the New World Order and we're on our way (trust me) Obama is living proof who by the way is a member along with Bush and Bill Clinton.,
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