Bush lying, says ex-German leader

[sabra]

Source: CNN

(CNN) -George Bush's memoir only hit bookshelves Tuesday, but already one prominent ex-world leader says the former president isn't being truthful when it comes to his description of a 2002 conversation about the possible use of force in Iraq.

Former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, who left office in 2005, is disputing a passage in Bush's new book that claims Schroeder privately offered the president full-fledged support in 2002 should he decide to invade Iraq.

"The former American president is not telling the truth," Schroeder said Tuesday according to the German newspaper Der Spiegel.

In his new book Decision points, Bush writes that in a January 2002 White House meeting with Schroeder, the German leader said of possible force in Iraq: "What is true of Afghanistan is true of Iraq. Nations that sponsor terror must face consequences. If you make it fast and make it decisive, I will be with you."

"I took that as a statement of support," Bush writes of the conversation. "But when German elections arrived later that year, Schroeder had a different take. He denounced the possibility of using force against Iraq."

...

"Just as I did during my subsequent meetings with the American president, I made it clear that, should Iraq ... prove to have provided protection and hospitality to al Qaeda fighters, Germany would reliably stand beside the US," Schroeder said of his comments to the president. "This connection, however, as it became clear during 2002, was false and constructed."

Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/10/ex-german-chancellor-accuses-bush-of-untruths-in-memoir/

[ixion]

1. Of course he's lying. He's a pathological liar. That's what they do.

And which was why he was selected for the job in the first place.

When are people going to get that through their heads?

[jberryhill]

27. Well then folks are going to have to make up their mind

Half of DU wants to call the book a "confession" of war crimes.

The other half of DU wants to call the book a pack of lies.

Umm...

[ixion]

28. uh, I don't think there is any question that war crimes have been committed

that is documented outside the Bush rhetoric. Nice try, though.

[jberryhill]

30. I don't know what you mean by "nice try"

And I agree that war crimes have been committed.

My point is simply directed to the notion that an unsworn out of court statement operates as a "confession".

[ixion]

32. certainly not a formal confession... and depending on who you ask, not a confession at all...

but saying that you did indeed order waterboarding (which was really not in question) is a confirmation, at the very least.

[jberryhill]

35. Procedurally, it is an "admission against interest"

An "admission against interest" is a hearsay exception under which a defendant's unsworn out of court statement may be proffered as evidence of the truth of the proposition. Unlike a confession, which is a conclusive sworn statement, an admission is rebuttable.

I just think it is an interesting observation that what is "true" or "untrue" in Bush's book depends on what folks want to be true. This notion of using the book as a "confession" to prosecute him, while calling him a liar, is just a wee bit inconsistent. That's all.

One could argue that he claims to have ordered waterboarding in order to cover for others who were culpable, or to promote the appearance of having been in charge, instead of clueless and misinformed.

Personally, I wouldn't bother to use his book to pick up dog shit, since I have greater respect for dog shit.

[liberation]

49. Wow... Seriously you're going for that narrative?

talk about misplaced "concern."

[jberryhill]

51. WTF is it with some folks here

Good golly, every idle comment someone makes on an Internet forum is part of some freaking agenda.

Yeah I'm "going" for some kind of "narrative" because as a paid agent of some conspiracy, the national agenda hangs on my DU postings.

It couldn't be that a lawyer simply has pet peeves about the way people throw around legal terms. Nawww...

[JDPriestly]

58. It is not what people "want" to be true or untrue.

The fact is that Schroeder explains why he is claiming that Bush's statement is untrue. Schroeder states that he qualified his statement, that he really said that Germany would support a U.S. action in Iraq provided that Al Qaeda was found to have had links or ties with Iraq. Bush changed the meaning of Schroeder's statement by omitting that important qualification, the essential condition that had to be met before Germany would support a U.S. action in Iraq.

That's like a man saying about a woman: "she said she would give me a million dollars" when in actual fact the woman said, "I'll give you a million dollars if you find a gold mine under my house." Now that we know the facts, Schroeder's explanation is more credible than Bush's.

[vanbean]

41. It's a duality. It's both.

[liberation]

48. War crimes many times involve lies...

BTW, trying to pretend this is an either/or proposition is rather telling.

[jberryhill]

52. Oh "telling" of what?

Oh don't just hint...

Thrill me about how I'm some sort of Bush apologist.

[daleo]

55. Bush lied to start an unjustified and illegal war

So he was both a liar and a war criminal. Naturally, his book reflects that reality.

[JDPriestly]

57. Of course, parts of the book are a "confession" and other parts are false.

And yes, a statement in a book can be recognized as a confession. In fact, a statement in a diary or a letter can be found to be a confession. And a defendant's confession is some evidence.

[jberryhill]

61. Sigh...

I guess I get what I deserve for bothering to distinguish between two words that have different meanings.

A confession is not "evidence". A confession is a sworn, conclusive statement of guilt.

An "admission" is evidence. An admission is admissible and rebuttable evidence of guilt.

Those are two different things, with different weight.

[MissHoneychurch]

2. I do believe Schröder more than *

but that is no surprise.

And me as German I have to say even if * is telling the truth I am glad Schröder decided not to go with *. It won Schröder the election in Germany. I honestly believe if Schröder had lost, Germany would be in the Iraq as well.

[lebkuchen]

36. The German military may not be deployed by the government

outside of NATO territory without a specific resolution of parliament, which describes the details of the mission and limits its term. Schroeder would have had great difficulty getting such a resolution passed, which is why he never made the overture in the first place.

[happyslug]

38. What did Schroder do at that time to support his opposition to the War?

Beside saying he was opposed to the war, he did nothing. If my memory serves me right, Schroeder even took over certain security operations around US Air bases in Germany so to release US Troops for Iraq, thus showing his support for Bush's war.

I remember commenting to a friend, on that news, that actions speak louder then words and in the case of Schroder his actions shows his support for Bush. Schroder's words were meaningless objections to those same actions.

[lebkuchen]

39. Pond Security guards secure the bases since Iraq

Daniel Pond is some RW Christian whacko making millions like Blackwater. Many of those hired by Pond are German Nationals, so Schroeder got something out of the deal....more Germans employed by the US govt. (contractor) They literally "stand by" the Americans.

The Federal Republic of Germany is the only NATO member which has assigned all combat troops to NATO. All German troops are under the control of NATO, except for those who are protecting Germany's borders. Therefore, Bush's assumption that Schroeder could have engaged German troops in Iraq with "speed and decisiveness" shows an utter lack of knowledge of German law on the part of Bush and his ghost writer.

[vanbean]

43. The Iraq and such as?

:hi:

[Atman]

3. Heavens! Bush LIED?! I can't believe it.

I also can't believe he's getting so much airtime on his "2010 Legacy Rehabilitation Tour." Disgusting. He should be in jail.

[MissHoneychurch]

4. I just wish

he would have gon on his promotion tour a few weeks before the election. To remind people IN TIME why the Democrats won the last two election cycles.

[karynnj]

10. Actually, he is getting no more than Clinton got with his autobiography

There is no surprise that every network, media outlet etc would consider a former President a get. Clinton was EVERYWHERE in late June and July 2004 - and I got just as tired hearing that Monica happened because "I could". I wonder if partisan republicans now feel as I did then - that rather than rehabilitation (of which Clinton needed relatively little and Bush a mountain of) - the book interviews reopen any controversies and cause people to think of them again. In neither case are the sound bites that come out of the long interviews on what they see as their accomplishments.

I say - let Bush continue to speak. It doesn't change all the evil he did. I did find it interesting that he describe himself as one of the people who wanted to avoid going to war with Iraq and that he waited until it was the last resort. The fact is that history will never buy that - he ignored everyone saying that he should not rush to war. He alone had the ability to order the attack and he did.

So, he already has both the British and German leaders saying that he is lying. The fact is that where it is interesting is where he told the truth - he did approve water boarding - and it is torture. Here is Senator Kennedy speaking of the list of things not allowed - most of which were done. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=595638891

I can't think of a stronger line in any speech than Kerry's line - in many speeches including at Obama's convention - when he called for a US where the US does not torture period!

[groovedaddy]

33. Yeah, let bush continue to speak. From Jail. n.t

[Supersedeas]

31. Shhhhh, the US Corporate Media is busy marketing their RW propoganda--repackaged.

[Kingofalldems]

5. Does he ever tell the truth?

Hopefully the media will run with this story.

[TxVietVet]

6. OMG!

A fucking bu$h lied! Whodathoughtit!

[Uben]

7. There is no "lie" in Bush....

...but quite aptly, there is a B and an S. Now, there is a lie in "lieberman" and an N and an O in Boner. There is a "con" in McConnell, and Issa has an A and two Ss. And we all know Cheney has a Dick in it.

[otohara]

8. So Many Lies

hard to keep track of them -

[Gidney N Cloyd]

9. "This connection... was false and constructed." Why can't anyone just say "lie"?

[slackmaster]

11. uto-Unrec for poorly written headline. Schroeder is still German.

:nuke:

[Mikeystyle]

12. and this guy would know...... just ask "curveball."

The Bush administration claimed Iraq had mobile chemical weapons labs.

This was based on a single source---an Iraqi referred to as "curveball" to protect his identity.

The Bushies used this as part of their "evidence" for proving Iraq had WMDs---but the problem was, Curveball wasn't a chem weapons expert as he claimed, he was an Iraqi cab driver being held by the Germans and German intelligence had already determined him to be a liar.

The Bush administration didn't tell us this guy's history, all they told us is the half of the story they wanted us to hear--the side of the coin that proved their case, but not the other side of the coin that proved them wrong.

[anachro1]

13. Get serious...

Who REALLY expects any honesty from this weak drunken asshole?

[grahamhgreen]

14. Obama - arrest this criminal!

[pattmarty]

26. You really don't want to hold your breath on that.

[JHB]

15. It's only a lie if you're "reality based"...

I made it clear that, should Iraq ... prove to have provided protection and hospitality to al Qaeda fighters, Germany would reliably stand beside the US

And to Chim-Chim, that says "support". All those qualifers were just for public consumption, idn'nat right? Sure, if we need "evidence", Dick and Scooter can make sure we get it, but it's not like that's a real concern for the deciders, I'm sayin'.

[Gamey]

16. Another from the annals of DUH!

[HopeHoops]

17. Even if the shrub HAD written the book, he's too drunk to remember what he threw up after breakfast.

Does he just lie or is he too fucking drunk and stupid to know what happened?

[SpiralHawk]

18. George AWOL Bush lying? As usual...typical republicon

[Hissyspit]

19. As we used to say on this website daily...

Are his lips moving?

In answer to the question: How do you know when George W. Bush is lying?

[AllyCat]

20. Bush was, is, and always will be a liar. His memoirs are a work of fiction

because it is not real.

[GoCubsGo]

21. Dumbya lying? I'm just so shocked at that.

:sarcasm:

[RoccoR5955]

22. Dubya must have asbestos pants.

What with all the lies he's been caught in, and they haven't caught fire yet.

[RoccoR5955]

23. Q. How can you tell when GW Bush is lying?

A. He moves his lips.

[Yavin4]

24. In Other News, Water Is Wet

And the Pope is Catholic.

[sheldon]

25. His pants are still on fire. Burning bright.

It's disgusting. Our national integrity is at a serious low point.

[Hubert Flottz]

29. Anything that comes out of his besotted brain is a lie.

His book is a work of fiction...his history is a work of fiction.

[Zambero]

34. He should have stayed under his rock

However, the Texas scorpions and other creepy crawlers are probably happy to have their rock back, at least for a while.

His re-emergence along with the pathetic shallow and self-serving interviews only serve to remind us of how unfit Bush was to serve in ANY elected office, let alone the Presidency.

[jobycom]

37. Why is this breaking news? Now, if he suddenly told the truth about something, that would be news. n

[rasputin1952]

40. Psychopaths like bush have no conscience...

adding his remarkable stupidity into the equation, it's actually pretty lucky we weren't all blasted into a cinder zipping around the sun.

[Initech]

42. To quote Family Guy:

"Everything I say is a lie. Except that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that.And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. "

[shanti]

44. DUH!

:eyes:

[Shining Jack]

45. I wanted to make an elaborated answer about this...

But just fuck him. :(

[truedelphi]

46. George W, like almost all the members of the Political Class,

Forget that the countless hours of news footage, now on YouTube, combined with the memories of other national leaders still alive and well, can all denounce the "truth" of their slanted report on what went on.

[LiberalLovinLug]

47. Bush Jr. doesn't even know what a lie is

I think he's too stupid, stripped of morality, common decency and any form of a conscience, and too full of himself and his families entitlement to the ruling elite class to even consider whether something is a lie or not. He simply says, or more likely is told, what is in his best interests to say. Then his dim tiny brain absorbs this fantasy world, like he kept America safe (?!!), or Iraq was a threat, and goes on his merry way knowing he secured billions for his family and accomplices from the stupid gullible tax payers.

[saras]

50. Yep

Unfortuntately, not only did you sum him up pretty accurately, you summed up a substantial number of powerful people in this country.

[Creative]

53. Of course he is lying, he is a politician.

[Jack Rabbit]

54. What? Bush? Tell a lie?

Please click here.

[Scurrilous]

56. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Divine Discontent]

59. the GOP's perfect politician - clueless and resolute in his firm beliefs from day to day!

[democrank]

60. "The Decider" is a liar