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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:33 AM
Original message
White House unloads anger over criticism from 'professional left’ (They "ought to be drug tested")
Source: The Hill


White House unloads anger over criticism from 'professional left’
By Sam Youngman - 08/10/10 06:00 AM ET

The White House is simmering with anger at criticism from liberals who say President Obama is more concerned with deal-making than ideological purity.


During an interview with The Hill in his West Wing office, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs blasted liberal naysayers, whom he said would never regard anything the president did as good enough.

“I hear these people saying he’s like George Bush. Those people ought to be drug tested,” Gibbs said. “I mean, it’s crazy.”

The press secretary dismissed the “professional left” in terms very similar to those used by their opponents on the ideological right, saying, “They will be satisfied when we have Canadian healthcare and we’ve eliminated the Pentagon. That’s not reality.

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/113431-white-house-unloads-on-professional-left
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Betty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'll have to remember this
when the next fund raising letter arrives.
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JaneFordA Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. I got the begging campaigning call awhile back...
... and let the chirpy little debutante from the DNC know, in no uncertain terms, that I now support PROGRESSIVE candidates only. NEVER again will I contribute to the general till that funds blue dogs. I finished up by letting her know that's how we f* retards plan to do business from now on.

I don't think she was very happy. ;-)
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ericinne Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
39. I got a call too.
I got a call from the DNC last month asking for donations too. My response to her was, I support the Democrat Party, but I do not support the DNC. That I will be donating, but it will be directly to progressive candidates.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #39
78. Uh, that would be "Democratic Party". There is no "Democrat Party".
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #78
204. What's the issue? Is it worth calling out a DU'er for?
:shrug:
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #204
208. "Democrat" Party is what Faux News and Teabaggers call us.
Yeah. Worth the call out....
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #208
230. it's also a tragic hit to the English language
:)

Seriously, it seems that people seldom correctly use adjectives and adverbs lately.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #230
234. Well, I cannot claim purity on that matter. But I can hear a dogwhistle
just fine...
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WheelWalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #230
441. true story... nt
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sodom Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #208
755. democratic is what the federalists called us.
before the democratic party was the democratic party it was the republican party. the federalists used the word democratic to demean republicans by calling them democratic-republicans. the name stuck and the party became the democratic-republican party, then later the democratic party.

honestly, whether you use democrat or democratic its all born of an insult. the first republicans took ownership of the insult democratic and made it theirs, there is no reason not to do the same now with democrat.

by wasting effort and time on this you allow them to achieve their intended objective, which is to divert attention away from political issues of substance and divide the democratic party.
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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #208
763. Agreed. Thanks, msanthrope.n/t
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #204
226. The issue is that the term "Democrat Party" is a childish right-wing slur.
The name of the party is the "Democratic Party", not the "Democrat Party". For whatever reason many on the right, even relatively mainstream people, think it's clever or something to say the name of the party wrong. I don't even get the joke. Maybe there isn't a joke, maybe they just think that saying it wrong is funny or something. In any case we should not fall into the habit of using that mispronunciation.

I know that some on the left use terms like "Repubs" or "Rethuglicans" but it's not common to see serious candidates or party leaders doing it. On the right it seems to be common practice for nearly everyone. I guess it shows how childish they really are.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #226
237. boehner and everyone else uses it all the time. I want to face plant them when they do
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #237
642. Yeah, If Boner and the rest of the RepubliCONs can use it...
I can use mine!
;-)
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ustilago Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #226
284. "I don't even get the joke."
It's just another aspect of the bullying attitude they have. The just say the name wrong because they know it's annoying. So far as they're concerned, any dig is a good dig, no matter how idiotic.
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dogknob Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #226
301. It's a venerable tactic...
...commonly employed by old, white men. Purposely mispronouncing someone's name is a passive-aggressive way to indicate that you have no respect for something.
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #301
337. "that you have no respect for something."?
Please tell me you are over the age of (?)
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dogknob Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #337
366. I am, in fact, over the age of...
(?). Many old white guys, when they want to indicate their disrespect for , will repeatedly mispronounce it.

Example

Noah Cross : "...Mister Gits."

Jake Gittes : "Gittes.


This tactic is older than the people currently employing it.
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Chef Eric Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #301
592. Venerable? There is nothing venerable about it.
venerable, adjective. Worthy of great respect, esp. because of age (e.g., a venerable statesman).

Passive-aggressive behavior is NOT worthy of respect.
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dogknob Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #592
675. If so, then why...
...do these people command the respect of holding elected office?

Their "respect" comes from the bzillions of voters who are motivated out of fear to be conservatives. To these voters, the figures deploying the "circular argument," ARE using a venerable tactic because it is unassailable (reason-, fact- and logic-proof) and supports their own "opinion."
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Chef Eric Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #675
710. I see that you've put the word "respect" in quotes.
If you had done the same with the word venerable, then it would have made much more sense to me. After all, it's not you who thinks the tactic is venerable. It is other people.
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Crystal Clarity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #226
433. I'm not sure when the "Democrat Party" thing began
But I think it has it's origins in a controversial ad campaign the RNC did that highlighted subliminally the "rat" or "rats" portion of the word. I'm thinking the 94 Newt Gingrich campaign ads but could be wrong... At any rate, there was a 15 or 30 second ad being run in all 50 states leading up to the election. At the very end of the commercial the word Democrat(s)? was used in a sentence which, after some professional scrutiny was found to be using subliminal advertising by flashing the word Rat or Rats so quickly (like a few milliseconds) as not to be seen by the naked eye but was yet picked up upon subconsciously.

This happened long enough ago that decent investigative reporting still existed and the story was picked up by most of the networks. Considering all the crappolla the R's pull now, this seems pretty benign but I remember it being a big story at the time. It was around that time that I started noticing the contextual misuse of the word Democratic and have always assumed it stemmed from that controversy.

That's my theory anyway...Anybody else remember that incident?

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #433
450. Yes, someone else remembered--and told me about it a couple of years ago.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 04:15 PM by No Elephants
I posted Reply 447 before I saw your post.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #433
493. Think it goes back to the attacks on Truman .....
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MoonGlow Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #433
757. No
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Clovis Sangrail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #226
565. I always saw it as an attempt to disassociate Democratic from democratic /nt
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #226
600. FOX now uses the term "Repubs", the way many use "Dems"
It's shorthand now.

Don't look for FOX to use "Repubes" though. Or even "Publicans", which I much prefer.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #226
745. The "joke" is that without the "ic"
Then the word "rat" is emphasized.

Of course, with the "ic" you still get "ick", so there's that too.

But I could care less about such weird childish games on the part of the Republicans.

What really disturbs me is how the Two Parties have become one Big Money Party, Corporate Whoring their lives away.

And sadly, those who won't fall into line suffer. (Witness the charges against Maxine Waters this week, for instance.)

And our lives go downhill on account of that corporate whoredom. We have had Supply Side economics, "trickle down" economic theory, Clinton's NAFTA and GATT (engineered in part by no other than Rahm) the endless wars proposed by the Republicans and offered funding by the Democratic Congress. While legislation like "Health Care "Reform," and Finance "Reform" are written by the very entities that should be left out of the loop. (How can anyone have the foxes write such legislation and then try and tell us chickens that it is a good deal.)

And on and on.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #204
235. yeah, it is worth calling out a DU'er. that is a word straight from the ass
hole of Newt Gingrich and its anathema around here.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #204
447. "Democrat" was used it in a TV ad in which "RAT" lingered on the screen after t he
rest of the word disappeared, in an attempt to send a subliminal message. And Rethug posters used it, as follows: DemocRATs, DemocRAT Party, etc. I was unaware of it until a friend corrected me and explained. I was glad to get the info.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #204
513. kath's post contained nothing but grammar correction. -nt
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #204
672. I've never seen anyone on DU other than a Right Wing troll say "Democrat Party"
You can bet your house and your next paycheck on it.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #672
720. I'd bet it if the RW hasn't taken it already
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #672
754. Looks like I was right as this person has been TS'ed
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #78
207. Apparently the "ic" is to be jettisoned.
It sounds like Gibbs wants the "professional left", that is the "icky" part of the Obama base, to go away.

So, perhaps it is appropriate to call it the 'Democrat Party' now.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #78
264. there's no longer a DEMOCRATIC party either
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #264
372. I agree.
The "Democratic Party" of FDR/LBJ is DEAD.

It has been replaced with the "New Democrat" Party.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:34 PM
Original message
The Left is far from dead. Some of the Left will continue to support the DNC and Obama on a "lesser
of two evils" basis. Some will stay home. Some will vote third party.

Gibbs and Rahm don't do Democrats, Obama or the DNC when they insult the Left. (I've said from Day One, just about, that Gibbs doesn't do Obama any favors with his snottiness, and that was well before Gibbs started flapping his gums about the Left.)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
495. Personally, I think they're really getting rather heated over liberals/progressives walking away...
We need to unite and get a firm Plan B together --

Cause more of this crap from the Wall Street Group and Rahm Emmanuel isn't what

we need at all --

Gibbs is a jerk!

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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #78
446. Correct. "Democrat" refers to members of the party, not the party itself. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
156. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
45. I Got A Call Like That A While Back,
said some of the same things (I suspect), and asked if there were any others who felt as I do. The woman said yes, there were many (Dems who worked hard for this administration and will not vote for them again). She also said that people told her that they were not voting for candidates who supported this administration. Guilt by association I guess. The call was not solicitation for money, but she just wanted to know if I was going to support my (Dem) congressman this fall, and I said I was, but that I was watching. He's a good one too, and I don't think he will disappoint me. I was impressed that this was not a money call, but just someone who wanted to know if I would be supporting my congressman this fall. Didn't even ask if I'd help (I will). Interesting call.
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toppertwot Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
227. GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE!
I have been telling the DNC the same thing when they call me. Sometimes these callers act like they are plum mad.
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Hestia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:48 AM
Original message
Me too - I unloaded on the guy who called asking if I would send $250 as my minimum
contribution! As freakin' if. I let him have it, and he started barking back at me, but hey! Couldn't care less. I'm in the wrong income bracket to be a "supporter" of DLC, et al.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #23
244. You won't be very happy either when the pukes win
Which will happen if progressives get too pure.

Idealism and practicality is the way to get things done. It's slow and painful.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #244
263. BULLSHIT. That dog no longer hunts. n/t
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #263
465. Talk to me after the election and see what breed you find hunting for you
I hope you are happy.
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #244
280. So it's no longer a progressive ideal...
to have candidates who run as progressives, and state they'll implement progressive measures held to their promises? Holding them to their promises is "wanting the Republican to win"? Really?!? Are you sure you wanna stick with that narrative?
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Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #280
384. Health Care is a Crisis! War is a Crisis! The Economy is a Crisis!
The President needs to grow a pair and say to congress, "Since you won't fix it, I will!" and do whatever it takes to end the wars and get people jobs, food, shelter, and medical care!

I know we are Democrats and this is the Democratic Underground, and so by definition we support Democracy! But our Democracy is badly broken by corporate corruption and lies, and needs to be rescued! It seems to me the only one that can do that is the President! He needs to step up and take emergency powers and say to the RW "No more of your filthy lies and oppression. THIS is how it is"!

Not for very long - we don't want a dictatorship! Just long enough to stop the ship from sinking!

And when the RW corporatists power is gone, we can then have a TRULY representitive government BY, OF, AND FOR THE PEOPLE!
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ElectricLightDem Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #384
430. I am astonished that this post has not garnered a single response
One would think this sentiment would be prevalent enough around DU to at least illicit some "right on" echoing posts. For this most part, Phil *is* right on. I'm just not sure the president alone can rescue the democracy we seem to be starved for. Our system isn't set up that way. However, if Harry and Nancy were to get on board, it would go a long way to enacting the changes that are so desperately needed.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #384
435. +1
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #384
437. "Not for very long - we don't want a dictatorship! Just long enough to stop the ship from sinking!"
Kid, it does not work that way. Powers once taken are not given back so easily.

Hekate
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #437
494. but they said the President couldn't override the Judicial or the Legislative
Branch-but W did. Why not make a big show of "signing" a document at the end of his term, outlawing what Yoo & others (unodir, etc)wrote & have the Supreme Court 'notorize' it? In front of cameras, even the Teabaggers would get that-no more W behavior, or else
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #280
411. No we dont want pukes to win or whine, but we are sick
of being fools for change and getting pissed on again.
It would be different if there WERE any godam progressives to choose from, or ones that would stay progressive once they got to the trough in WDC.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #280
468. Oh, yes, work your butts off for progressives, absolutely
But to say "I'm not giving my money to anyone unless they are progressives" works only to a point, then it is time to smell the coffee, whether Kona, Kenya AA, or Folgers. Holding them to elected officials to every promise works very well in certain areas of the country, but not so much in others, because it is a matter of negotiation. Period. It's like parenting teenagers. Pick your battles carefully, then fight for the most important.

It doesn't matter whether or not you "want a Republican to win" by supporting a lesser-evil Blue Dog. The question is: Do you not want a Blue Dog so very much as to pave the way for a Republican to be elected?

I quite stand by what I said.

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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #244
357. Good point.

Main example: Nader in Florida 2000. Liberal madness at its worst.

Fight for the most progressive candidate in the primary that can win against the Repub. And in the election, don't stay home, and don't vote Green.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #357
399. That's what I did last time.
Now, what do I do to prevent the DLC from owning this party?
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #399
663. Fight for the

most progressive candidate who can/will beat the Repub, in the primaries. If that candidate does not become the Dem candidate, then the majority of the Dem voters want another candidate than you (and me). If you don't vote for this Dem candidate, you make Repubs smile.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #357
460. Wrong. Sept. 12, 2001 BBC released its report on how Bush stole the election
Remember that gem? Oh yeah, something very convenient took place the day prior.
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #460
670. I've heard a lot about dirty tricks,
but what happened the day prior?

Anyway, suppose Bush would have stolen the election, no matter how many people voted Gore. But then, at least, these people could blame Bush. Now, the ones who voted Nader, have to blame themselves.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #460
714. It's hard to belive that,
10 years later, the Party Loyalists are still pulling up that old canard. Mountains of evidence to refute their assertions, out for years even, and they're still crying "it was Nadar and the Progressives fault!" Sometimes it's just better to smile, nod and walk away slowly.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #357
475. lol
Nader!
To this day I don't understand it. I have Nader voting friends that will never vote for a pro-drug war candidate. They hate the DLC just a little less then the GOP.
Yet tons of Dems voted for Bush in FLA in 2000 - :shrug:
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #475
666. Tell your Nader voting friends

that the Democratic party is a coalition of groups, that don't necessarily love each other, but that stay in the same party, because that is necessary to stop the people we "hate". Yes, staying in the same party is NECESSARY to beat the Repubs. If less liberals had voted Green, more blacks had voted, etc., the US would have been a better country.
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BDavinciNY Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #666
700. Thank You!
Amen to that !:bounce: :toast: :yourock:
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #700
752. Thanks,

welcome to DU!
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #666
747. You don't get it
As long as folks are comfortable, able to afford their lifestyle, they are all good.
I can't imagine any of my leftist friends ever voting for a pro-drug war candidate - they just won't do it.
Conservative Dems will win without leftist. Drug warriors will win without the left.
America gets what it deserves.
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #747
751. Yes,

those leftists definitely get what they deserve - Bush and his ilk.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #751
756. And we all get to complain together
in unity.. and solidarity..
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #756
759. Yes, they are very good at complaining about Bush & his ilk

- but doing anything to stop them, never!
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #759
760. no need to stop them
The people that I am talking about are real George Carlin kind of folk - politicians are on the side of the 'owners', and work for the interest of the rich over the interest of the nation.

And if you are anti-war, or anti-drug war, or pro equal rights (gay marriage) - you can choose between the lesser of two evils, or you can actually vote for a candidate that is anti-war, anti-drug war, and pro equal rights.

I really don't think that voters owe you or me anything. I don't think that voters need to be pragmatic. They just need to show up and vote.

If there were real choices, more Americans would vote. When the contest is war or war-light, anti-gay or anti-gay marriage, drug warrior vs. drug warrior; I understand why people sit home and watch tv instead..
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #760
761. Yes, it is easy to understand

that many understand little, to put it bluntly. But I wish they had understood as much as the Gore voters!
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #244
361. You know, that fairy tale might ring true and hold some weight
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 03:20 PM by ooglymoogly
If the corporatist Rahm et al, were not trying to get corporatist pugs to run with a D after their name and pulling the rug from progressive, non corporatist Democrats; And to add insult to injury, supporting corporatist republican Dino's over more progressive non corporatist candidates;

As in the Corporatist Lincoln, v the more progressive and non corporatist Halter, who, more than likely, would win that coming election, as Lincoln, a foregone conclusion, will most likely not, barring a miracle; And the DlC knew that strong likelihood from long before the primary, and that Halter would likely win, if the DLC thumb had not been on the Lincoln scale.

A foregone knowledge that Lincoln would lose in the final. And that the probability; Another non corporatist Democrat in the Senate, would be worse in their minds, than that loss to another Corporatist republican, diminishing the power of the D but further empowering the corporatists; These and other such flagrant hints and giveaways as to whose corporate feet the loyalties of this admin really lay.

Or as in the case of progressive and non corporatist, Al Franken and not lifting a finger when the pugs were trying desperately to pull the rug under his feet, Clearly not caring when or if he got seated. Only defending when a grandstand was near and real action is only vaguely implied.


They are packing all branches of government with corporatists, no matter the D or R after their name, as long as they are corporatist.

The battle at hand is not Democrats v Republicans; It is an Armageddon of an Orwellian Corporatocracy v we the people of this country.

Corporatocracy is in no way compatible with capitalism; Something we have been dealing with for centuries; Sometimes in harmony, sometimes not, but never as dangerous as the Orwellian corporatocracy, moving relentlessly to take over our government.

And we need to start using every wit, every tool and imagination at our disposal, to prevent the ongoing and ruthless, take no prisoners, onslaught on democracy.

And their worst enemy? We the people and their representatives; Non corporatist Democrats and even, non corporatist Republicans, at least if only in hope, there might be any.

We must, at whatever cost, find the way to say absolutely not, to the packing of corporatist Democrats and pugs in every seat in government.

One big tool at our disposal, is the coming primary which each of us must deal with in our own way, be it, as in my case, a write in of a non corporatist dem if a corporate dem is the only option, or whatever. "Primaries" is the key word here.

Cutting to the heart of the problem and calling a spade a spade; Drawing the battle lines so to speak;


One big tool is to stop calling ourselves progressives as the final definitive, which the corporate media finds just too delicious and far too easily propagandized into something silly and bad; Lending itself to easy red herrings and straw men, barn sized targets to shoot down.

We must find a way to get out the word; To call ourselves 'Non corporatist Democrats and progressives'; And even form a 'Non Corporatist Democratic and progressive, party'; And call our enemies in the democratic party, exactly what they are; 'corporatist Democrats' which is an obvious oxymoron, easily exploited.

A move that could only level more, the playing field and shed the brightest light on what is truly going on in this country.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #361
474. We do have our troubles
And I DESPISE the corporatist Dems but not as much as the corporatist repukes (but close--well, because, dammit, Dems are supposed to be BETTER than that). You have some really good thoughts rolling around up there. I can't tell you how many progressive independents I know work so hard for progressive Dem candidates, and if it doesn't work, hold their nose on election day and still vote Dem.

As you said, the battle is in the early stages. Right now, not at all. It is a foolish time for people to say, "Wah, I'm not voting" or "Wah, I'm not supporting any Dem who doesn't think like me."

But of course, we are free to do so.

All of us progressives need to be very active during the off years, laying the groundwork to hopefully make some real progress.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #474
593. Problem is,
the DNC and individuals in the Party establishment are a big part of the reason the more liberal candidate loses the primary. I don't know that I want to support keeping Progressives out of the fray.

Holding your nose when you vote is one thing. Holding your nose when you give your hard-earned money is tougher. Even tougher for many, giving your scarce time and energy.

I'm not saying I'd never donate to a Blue Dog, or never vote for a Blue Dog, but s/he might have to be running against Attila the Hun.

Meanwhile, I'm going to be selective about where my time and money go. I am not interested in helping Democrats move any further right.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #244
496. If Obama keeps crashing hope and trust of liberals/progressives... repukes may win!!
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
392. I think you're making a big mistake. This is one big honking ship that needs turning.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #392
478. And your plan is?
Yes, the Dems let Rove lead them by the nose to the right.

And that just means more work for you and me at the foot soldier level. Yep, it's a battle.

And we must never shut up and take it AND we must minimize the collateral damage.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #478
497. We sure need a Plan B -- 'cause Plan A under Obama/Rahm/Walls St isn't working ....!!
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #497
545. Plan B. A pipe dream
Work like hell to get one of the progressives we trust, (we all know who these are: Allen Grayson at least to me is the stronges but of course there are 5 or 6 others that would pose a real threat), (Unfortunately Dennis does not have a chance, even though I love him) And work like hell to get them to register as a challenger in the presidential primaries, then work like hell even harder, to get them past the primaries and into the presidency.

But if that candidate does not prevail in the primaries, game over. The advantage; A warning shot past the bow, forcefully signaling that we are not in the pockets of the establishment and even a more powerful advantage; Empowering our candidate for the future.

If we succeed in an upset...glory hallelujah, Change really will come, wars will cease and corporate America will be put in its place and with the help of Elizabeth Warren, the middle class will once again rise from the ashes.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #545
568. That's what Plan B is . . .new Dem candidate in 2012 . .. truly progressive/liberal Dem . . ..
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 07:46 PM by defendandprotect
I'm for Grayson, as well!!

Someone has to step up here cause this crap going on with Obama/Wall Street needs to end!!

And PS on Warren . . . evidently Dodd is working to keep Warren from happening!!!

And we aren't supposed to call out these Repug-lite Dems??

Too much damage is coming from INSIDE the Democratic Party!!!

And, we've been too quite about it by a long shot!!



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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #545
597. Prevailing in the primaries is one thing--and very unlikely without
backing from Party leaders. (Recall the story about Harry Reid arguing that Obama should be "the one." I don't think it any coincidence that Obama then proceeded to win the primaries, despite the Clintons's incredible contacts and machine--and 40 point lead.)

But let's say your hypothetical candidate wins the primaries, against all odds. The Super Delegates can, if they dare, still override. That is the reason for their existence.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #597
737. We are speaking of pipe dream miracles here, and the Herculean task...
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 01:38 PM by ooglymoogly
of making the impossible happen. Not so ridiculously and absolutely impossible; As; 75% of the oil in the gulf has disappeared.
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #478
570. Part of the plan is to know it's a long haul and much more work than say ,,,,,
Clinton's supporters had in 93 & 94. And yet he lost both houses. We can't afford that now that so many agencies and moles are in place left over from Bush/Cheney.

The plan is to follow the leader's advice and make him do what you want. I keep trying. And even though I'm unhappy about many things going on, I refuse to let up my support. We'll all drown.

Oh! And that "big honking ship" I referenced trying to turn is being fired at from above and below. And from all sides! This is big stuff and I never imagined being a citizen was this demanding.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #570
579. I hear you
You and all like you are who will make a difference for the generations to come. You can look your kids and grandkids in the eye and say, "I actually knew who was running for governor, senator, whatever instead of knowing who was left on Survivor." You can be proud and know you did your best. That's all anyone can ask.

Remember that Clinton was not first elected by a 50%+ majority of voters because of Perot. I *think* that made the '94 election more vulnerable than what we have at hand. I guess we'll see.

The work in the primaries is all important for us progressives. One thing that I think we can all improve on is raising consciousness about what being a progressive means ahead of time. We need to take back the term and couch it as meaning real, honest, measurable, factual progress--a betterment for the entire planet--and away from the hijackers who want it to frame us as "loony left." Fuckers.

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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #579
708. We most definitely agree.
Also it is cruel to get emails every day asking for money when your job has disappeared along with tide of the currency of wishful thinking.

I wish DU could get behind one issue - like clean energy jobs. Put in Robert Gibbs face every day that we want clean energy jobs. As him: "What is the president going to do to promote the issue?"

The whole of DU asking him to keep this one promise.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #478
583. Rove did not lead the Dems right. He could not possibly do that .
The Democrats started to go right because they panicked after Nixon's big win (or, depending on how you look at it, McGovern's big loss). That was when they started talking about Super Delegates, to override the will of Democratic voters, if the voters ever again voted in the primaries for a candidate as "unsuitable" as McGovern again.

The Democrats went further right because they wanted corporate money. Before 1980, Republicans were getting it, but lobbying money in total was not a huge deal. Then, the DNC asked Washington Democrats to see if they could not get some, too--and lobbying started to inrease almost exponentially as both sides battled for the bucks and corporations tried to stay in everyone's good graces.

Meanwhile, Reagan, aided and abetted by Rove's mentor, Lee Atwater, pulled off victories as stunning as Nixon's. And the DlC officially came into existence, espousing many of the same positions as the neocons. And the Super Delegates also became official, just in case Democratic primary voters got any ideas that did not mesh with the ideas of Party leaders.

Badda boom badda bing.

You can blame a lot on Rove, but he was never in a position to lead Democrats to the right. Only Democratic Party leaders could do that.




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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
538. Progressives Only.
Seconded.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
699. Got the same call, did the same thing as you did. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Yeah,
it's only the simple-minded sheeple we want. Thank you.
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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Talk is cheap. Stay home this November. n/t
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #36
50. are you asking crim son to stay home or demanding crim son to stay home...
way to campaign for the right.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #50
82. The DLC is "genius" that way when it comes to "win" hearts and minds...
... no wonder everything they touch turns to shit, or piss ("liquid diamond" come on... LOL).

They have this weird self hate thing going, maybe is because they are frustrated because they can't register as what they would really like to be: republicans, and thus they are stuck with having to play democrat.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #82
88. Well said. nt
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #82
117. .
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #82
694. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
652. Read my previous post. I'm tired of these people threatening
to sit on their hands or vote for a candidate that has no shot at winning instead of keeping Obama in office. Enough of their talk. Put your money where your mouth is.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #36
184. Don't stay home, that is just plain silly.
You have to get out and vote-in the most liberal people you can find, so we can move this mountain to the left.

It is curious they seem uncomfortable, almost apologetic, when they dare bash the corporate elite or RepubliCONS.

I think they are trying to look centrist by jumping onto the band wagon of "hate the liberal". See, we are so centrist, so nonthreatening, we even bash liberals like all RepubliCONS do. So, you tea-baggers don't need to vote in conservative RepubliCONS, you have them already in the White House.

The final act of appeasement, take on the opinions and views of your enemies.
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #184
225. That is exactly right.
They're in trouble and they know it. In order to placate the indies, they must begin to distance themselves; however, I do not condone the behavior.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #225
500. Liberals/Progressives need to UNITE ... as a voting block -- Plan B!!
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
359. Vote!

Nothing is more important than winning against the Repubs. Nothing.
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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #359
646. Actually, that is what I would prefer the whiners would do, but
they keep making threats about withholding support (indirectly supporting the repigs). I'm tired of their talk. I'm sick of them expecting us to baby them.
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #646
702. So

"Stay home this November" was irony? Good, but you should have made that more clear!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
499. Better yet, let's get rid of some of these jerks like Gibbs in the White House . . .
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 05:51 PM by defendandprotect
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #36
707. Talk may be cheap
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 03:02 AM by crim son
but I'm not staying home. I can't imagine why you'd ask me to.

on edit: that was sarcasm, noted only because nobody ever seems to get it here.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
91. Do you mind if I qoute you?
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 10:01 AM by L0oniX
:eyes:
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RaRa Donating Member (705 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
144. took the words out of my mouth
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 10:46 AM by RaRa
on edit, my words had the obligatory "fuck you" attached as well.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
233. they absolutely never learn and this should tell you the temperature
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:52 AM by roguevalley
of the white house, the ease with which they say things like this. Obama is no liberal, no leftie, he has contempt for us to allow this culture of thought to exist. and what a masterstroke of timing, to say something like this to an already apparently tepid base before elections. bravo, you bastards. *you* should be drug tested. to quote Keith: "GENIUS! GENIUS, I SAYS!"
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #233
269. A Republican congress
will allow Obama to cut social security and carry on a stronger right wing agenda.
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freebrew Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #269
371. You don't think that's already in the works?
Seems to me, from the messages I get from MoveOn and AARP that SS is already on the block.

I can find more credibility there than in anything Gibbs says.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #269
503. Yes -- as we've seen from Pelosi's concerns re attacks on Democrats . . .
it looks like Obama is trying to dump this into the hands of the GOP --

and agree with your predictions -- easier then for Obama to destroy Social Security

and Medicare --

You can only really be betrayed by those closest to you!!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #233
501. Did we ever see anything comparable coming out of the GOP White House... re their base???
What absolute jerks let Gibbs loose -- and it doesn't look like he had any

difficulty saying -- came "trippingly off the tongue" as though he's said it

a couple of hundred times before!!

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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
240. if you don't think Obama = Gorge W. Bush
then he wasn't talking about you.

If you DO think that, then why in the world would you have been sending money to him anyway??
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
253. I'll never forget it
and it tells me all I need to know about this gang of elegant liars.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
258. huffingtonpost says he's apologizing, his comments 'unartful'
they do this and then send an apology to make sure that they get their point out and then pull back their own arms before they get bit off. they mean what they say. Unless of course, they are as incompetent and stupid as I think they are. I've seen this I meant it, I didn't mean it like that shit before.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #258
266. So is the apology due to 'unartfulness'
or because there is true remorse?

nm, I know that answer
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #258
505. This is all crap -- we need a liberal/progressive Democrat to run in 2012 .. . let's start looking!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #258
604. Yes, his habit of speaking out of turn publicly is what got him the job of President's press
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 08:48 PM by No Elephants
secretary--and why he keeps it.

:sarcasm:

Much like Rahm keeping his job after calling liberals fucking retards.
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Reader Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
276. "Can't contribute. Need to save my money for drug testing."
Signed,

Member of the Professional Left
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #276
335. *chuckle* good answer
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #276
343. +1000 n/t
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #276
388. Gibbs knows what he is doing by using the "drug" metaphor...
The GOP has for years been hammering away at the "left" (really, just some liberals & progressives) as being a product of the hated "counter culture." Drugs (most esp. marijuana) are the enduring symbol created by the GOPers in identifying "liberalism" with un-American counter-culture beliefs. This is why the GOP constructed such a massive W.O.D. (it ain't the money trail, folks, it's culture and hatred). And they have been immensely successful at essentially downgrading ANY kind of progressive notion as immoral, unpatriotic, weak, corrupt, weak, elitist, weak, and weak. So successful, in fact, that the Democratic Party is actively working to end ANY sort of identify to "liberal/progressive" values and beliefs.

Gibbs knows exactly what he is doing. And so does Obama.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #388
536. Are you saying these brilliant new young Democrats actually bought the Reagan/Bush propaganda? nt
:banghead:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #536
609. I thought Steve was saying they purchased Lee Atwater's dog whistle.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:24 PM by No Elephants
Or maybe just borrowed it from his heir.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #536
729. They're young -- that's why they bought it...
Newt Gingrich and others of the Republican "revolution" (early 1990s) fashioned a counter-culture image even more explicit than the "dirty hippy" one drifting about since Nixon. And the W.O.D. was key and integral to that image. The hated counter-culture of the 60s was the BASIS of the culture wars. Gibbs is merely genuflecting toward the hard, established parameters of GOP-established reality. Best way to do that? Say "drugs," "drug-testing" three times and click your heels, then maybe they'll let you play their game. They win, of course.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #729
744. Truth. nt
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #276
401. That is brilliant!
:thumbsup:
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SpankMe Donating Member (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #276
419. I LOVE this!!
I'm doing it on the next solicitation for money!
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #276
529. lol this
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PanoramaIsland Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
306. Let's see how much they enjoy taking shots at progressives when they can't raise any cash from us.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #306
374. It wasn't Progressives
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 02:47 PM by SunsetDreams
he was talking about.

Gibbs said the professional left is not representative of the progressives who organized, campaigned, raised money and ultimately voted for Obama.


Progressives, Gibbs said, are the liberals outside of Washington “in America,” and they are grateful for what Obama has accomplished in a shattered economy with uniform Republican opposition and a short amount of time.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #374
507. I doubt there's a liberal/progressive anywhere who wants any more Obama/Rahm. - or Gibbs!!
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704wipes Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #374
619. I guess I am part of the unprofessional left outside Washington
No one pays me shit. They want my money and votes and shoe leather all the fucking time,
and then ignorantly think that I am 'grateful' for hcr that is a fucking treasury give away to
insurance and pharma ? I am 'grateful' no one in the white house will grab their balls and talk back
to the GOP bullshit machine the way Grayson & Weiner will? I am 'grateful' they want to trial balloon my social
secuity benefits to oblivion with a death panel cat food commission?

Somebody IS smoking something, and I wish to fuck it was me Mr Gibbs, because then I wouldn't
be ready to strangle you to within an inch of your worthless DLC life. Eat shit and die motherfucker.
Same for you, Rahm.

Now both of you run along and smoke some more Republican DICK. it's what you're good at.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #374
620. He is talking about people with a certain view of Obama, a mindset, not
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:19 PM by No Elephants
geography.

I supported Obama, donated and voted. I have also pointed out when Obama take a position that Bush took. And I am not grateful to Obama.

Do you really think Gibbs would not count me as a candidate for drug testing, just because I am not in D.C. and I am not a professional pundit?
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PanoramaIsland Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #374
709. This shows how completely the White House fails to understand progressives outside of Washington.
I'm on the other side of the country from DC, not involved in politics in any function other than as a sometime protester/letter writer/petition signer, and I am frustrated as hell with Obama's half-measures.
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
406. You'll also remember when that next Republican is president....
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #406
508. You mean a Republican who will kill Social Security/Medicare as Obama is trying to do???
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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
520. So it's settled, then, Mr. President.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 06:17 PM by breadandwine


Sleazy corporate healthcare with no public option and no Medicare available to all even if you have to buy into it, is just fine even though the corporations are going to make zillions forcing everyone to buy what they can't afford.

And it is just GREAT that the White House sucked up to BP like there was no tomorrow and wasted a golden opportunity to draw a clear and easy distinction with the GOP.

And it is JUST great that instead of saving the entire planet from global warming as the planet passes one tipping point after another, we instead wasted the last 2 years sucking up to corporations and blew our wad, politically, on THAT, in the 2 years we had before the GOP takes back the House and Senate. So we blew our wad helping insurance companies rake in more moola. SO F*CKING WHAT? STOP CRITICIZING US. IT ONLY OCCURRED TO US NOW THAT THERE IS A PARTY BASE.

And it is JUST GREAT that we should not listen to the warnings of the progressive left because we have to cave to the corporations on everything EVEN NOW FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE MIDTERM ELECTION.

Progressives are just a bunch of no-good professionals who just don't understand THE LARGER PICTURE, the LONG VIEW. Ronald Reagan was a "great communicator" who sold the country his IDEOLOGY. But Obama can't do that and must hide under the desk lest anyone think he is a liberal!!!!!!!

And then a funny thing happened on the way to the Midterm elections:

A funny little thingy.

Turns out that midterms are ALWAYS won by energizing the base since midterms are always underparticipated in so the enthusiastic and ideologues are the ones who vote in midterms. Like, whoda thunk? Like, the same DLC crowd, including the same Rahm Emanuel, that pushed healthcare to the exclusion of other important issues under Clinton and cost us the House and Senate is the same group that is DOING IT ALL OVER AGAIN. But what would the base know? They're all "F*CKING RETARDS," right Rahm?

But we can't do ANYTHING to please the base even at this late hour. Could we throw the left a bone? Never! Could we make even some little GESTURE to the left to try to win them back? NO WAY! Perhaps even a progressive speech that rebuffs the GOP for its obsessive corporatism? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!

So how then do we win the midterms? By blurting out that we don't like being criticized by the base! Sclerotic decrepit aging DLC functionaries know more than the netroots and THAT'S why we had to get rid of Howard Dean so we could lose state after state. Like what did HE know?

Please don't force us to appeal to the base before the midterms! We really want to lose the election! Stop criticizing the White House while they continue their obsession with being GOP lite! Harry Truman said, "If you run a Republican against a Republican, the Republican will win every time." But what did he know?! He was just a "professional leftist"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Five minutes before the midterms the White House is suddenly wailing, "Oh no! I forgot to be a Democrat!"

Do not listen to the base and instead cut the deficit which will shove us right back into a recession BECAUSE THE HALLOWED GOP SAYS WE SHOULD.

So it's settled. PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE BASE. THEY DON'T EXIST. JUST BITCH AND COMPLAIN THAT THEY ARE CRITICAL EVEN THOUGH YOU JUST SPENT THE LAST TWO YEARS IGNORING US AT EVERY F*CKING TURN. EVEN FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE MIDTERMS, LEARN NOTHING, FACE NOTHING, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO WIN BACK THE BASE, NOT ONE ISSUE, NOT ONE SPEECH, NOT ONE TV AD, TO WIN BACK THE BASE. THE BASE IS JUST WORTHLESS SH*T WHO SHOULD BE SEEN AND NOT HEARD.

AS RAHM SAID, WE'RE ALL F*CKING RETARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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pengillian101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #520
683. Wow - JUST GREAT post! n/t
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
762. I'm already there
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. My, my, my
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Impressive, isn't it?
About the best tactic going into the fall elections since... ?

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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
120. Seriously -- the timing is appalling
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #120
509. It is appallling . . .unless you're trying to guarantee that Democrats stay home????
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #509
613. Well. Gibbs did say Democrats might lose the House Maybe he wants
to seem prescient.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #613
656. Pelosi has been raging at this WH attitude ... attacking Democrats ...and
Dems in Congress -- this is Gibbs second time around with it --

Pelosi was furious last time --

guess she expected a White House working with her to get Dems elected???




:evilgrin:
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
339. Hi Lost!
I've been partaking of java all day,
but I will remember your wise advice from last night and TRY to hold back! :D

:hi:
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, it is crazy to say that President Obama is just like
George Bush. You don't hear that here on DU much, or for very long. That's a good thing, because it is simply an untrue statement.
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SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Gibb's whole statement is loaded with strawmen.
It's absurd, it's insulting, and it once again shows that the White House reserves its big guns for the left.
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Ineeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. See reply #13 -- 'nuff said. n/t
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
68. Right on cue! (nt)
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
42. And so Gibbs is simply perpetrating a myth then?...brilliant...
...the guy is incompetent.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
249. gibbs words are the outward manifestation of a culture in the white
house that hates us.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
119. +1000
Gibbs is absolutely right. To say such a thing, one cannot even be a Democrat.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:12 AM
Original message
It's crazier to be a high level White House official badmouthing your base in the press.
Maybe Gibbs needs to be drug tested.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
178. Anyone who thinks Obama is the same as Bush
is NOT the base of the Democratic Party. They never were. They never will be.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #178
185. Bush never slammed his base to reporters, did he? n/t
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #185
195. Not to my point. Bush loved his Freepers.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #195
197. You have no point. You don't tell people ahead of an election
that you don't like them. That's just stupid.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #197
209. If I have no point, I'm surprised that you would attempt to
engage in any debate with me.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #209
267. I think the broad sweep of your statement needed addressing,
and I saw it addressed quite well.
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #267
341. +1
nt
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #197
215. It depends on who you are telling.
Currently, I'm watching the Greens in my state attempt to get a teabagging, homophobic Repuke elected to the Senate.

They should stay the fuck home.
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #215
311. How exactly are the Greens trying to do that, exactly?
I ask for informational purposes only.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #311
342. By accepting Repuke money to front a fringe candidate against Sestak.
Since 2006, the Green in PA have been taking money from various Repuke organizations that help them collect signatures for ballot slots. Being Republicans, the signatures are seldom valid.

It's why they got tossed from the ballot in 2008. It's why Sestak got them tossed in the primary, and hopefully, why he'll get them tossed from the general.

It's the usual skullduggery shit we've come to see and love in PA.

I can't link the lawsuits from Lexis, but they are worth reading....Greens and Repukes working together, and failing at basic election fraud.

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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #342
390. This apparently has occurred in Texas as well, using a Perry aide. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #197
510. .... unless you're working to keep the base at home -- not voting ...
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #197
662. b.i.n.g.o. ~ . . . You're ir-relevant to anyone but yourself and other crazies who will throw away
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:09 PM by patrice
a relatively decent chance to create something Progressive, you're throwing that away for somekind of pony-in-the-sky extremely low probability chance of getting some completely undefined perfection that, by the way, has to evolve out of chaos made more painful by your own delusions.

{That's the rhetorical you, of course.}
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #178
217. He is the same in that he doesn't seem to care about us. NFT
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #178
262. Anyone...
Who would suggest that those Progressives critical of Obama are stating empirically that he is 'just like Bush in every regard.' Is guilty of a massive strawman obfuscation in order to deflect or dismiss legitimate progressive complaints.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #178
350. "just like Bush.." in using predator drones in Pak, perhaps;or in
continuing NCLB..or perhaps in continuing the banker bailouts.. Depends on the context. Do you think Gibbs wasn't talking about those of us who have been known to make specific comments about specific topics of similarity? I think they are just annoyed with any and all criticism from the left. Fine. I'm kind of tired of worrying about public anything anymore. Ain't enough hours in the day anyway.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #178
624. That is your opinion. Doesn't mean it is also the truth.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:34 PM by No Elephants
Besides, one can say Obama has behaved like Bush in this matter or that without saying or meaning that Obama is like Bush in eery respect.
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daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
214. Which means...
Gibbs, and perhaps others in WH, don't see the left as their base.:mad:
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #214
321. They "hope" the center-right will vote for them.
Bad news is, they won't (be enough).
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #321
547. If they are courting disaffected Republicans by hating on the Left they are making a mistake.
The left-haters aren't disaffected Republicans or even Moderates. They're still Republicans. And apparently, Republican-lites.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #214
466. Goldman Sachs is their base.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
243. shh, they're having so much fun with their panties in a wad
it's not like anything important is going on in the world ya know.
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
248. It's also crazy to call Obama a socialist or a communist but the people who do that ...
... get their concerns addressed.

They get people fired from the administration
They keep Gitmo open
They get continued spying on Americans
They kill popular ideas such as the public option
They prevent reducing the size of too big to fail banks
They get continued deep sea oil drilling
They get to keep people in jail without trial or charge
etc.


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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #248
333. Ain't that the truth.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 01:39 PM by LAGC
Where's the outrage over the right?

I guess the Clintons had their "vast right-wing conspiracy", so Obama sees it necessary to have his "vast left-wing conspiracy" against him as well. At least the Clintons were telling the truth.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
268. You are so right I mean...
Bush never won the Nobel Peace Prize prior to escalating a war surge that is killing many innocent people in the name of TERRA... and Bush could only dream that he would be able to force millions of uninsured people to purchase health insurance from insurance companies via government mandates. It was a Bush wet dream to be able to control and shut down the Internet. Luckily we were the watchdogs then and managed to stop alot of bad policies, so what about now?

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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
287. Gee, continuing Bush's policies makes it very hard to tell the difference, though.
Let's see:

Indefinite detention
Continuing a pointless illegal war
More rendition to countries to avoid the spotlight of Guantanamo
No support of gay marriage

How is he not like Bush again?
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #287
461. He passed the Lily Ledbetter Act
and his Stimulus Package kept even more jobs from being lost.

At least that is what I was told by one of the ardent supporters awhile ago. It's weak, but that's what they've got.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #461
625. Congress passed Ledbetter. Bush vetoed it. Obama signed it.
He did not pass it or get it passed. He simply did not veto it.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #625
721. You're right of course - I didn't mean to overstate. nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #721
725. I understood you were quoting/ My post was more to leave an unambiguous record for the next person
ambitious enough to read through this thread.

:wave:
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LastLiberal in PalmSprings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #287
706. Some of Obama's policies exceed even Bush/Cheney's dreams
Whereas Bush/Cheney only got to kill foreigners, and had to have at least the appearance of validity (non-existent WMDs, a resolution passed by Congress), Obama has announced that he will assassinate an American citizen in a foreign land upon even the suspicion of being engaged in terrorist related activities.

Who gets to suggest to the president the names of those who should be killed? What are the standards? Is there oversight and accountability? All unknowns.

Why tell us about the policy in the first place? What was gained?

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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
309. It is also a massive strawman...
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 01:12 PM by liberation
... I don't think anyone in the left has seriously claimed Barack Obama is George Bush, what people are saying is that Obama is continuing George Bush's policies. That is a very different claim.

I don't think my issue with Mr. Obama is that once his administration started he seemed to have done a whole 180 degree turn from the whole "I am a DC outsider" campaign act, but the fact that the insiders he stuffed his administration with are so incompetent and tone deaf that almost looks like a comedy of errors (a comedy which I don't find funny in the least).
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montanacowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. Pathetic
we are only wanting what was promised

Close Gitmo
Stop spying on us
End DADT
End the frigging wars
Public Option
End DOMA
Creat Jobs Jobs Jobs, hey, like a HUGE pulic works projects and
STOP Destroying public education with that slime Arne
and on and on

To hell with Gibbs -sorry to say they are going to have a rude awakening come November
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davidhilton Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. I remember November 5, 2008 . . .
Your list contains most of the reasons I voted for Obama, yet none of those promises have been kept.
I must admit, some of the hope has been lost. Great feeling on November 5, 2008, however, reality is a rude awakening at best.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
44. Rude awakening is right.
This admin. reminds me of the old SNL skit with John Belushi as a short order cook who'd only serve up cheeseburgers and pepsi no matter what anyone ordered. The left is getting pretty damn tired of same old same old, and there will be hell to pay come Nov. when the base sits on their collective hands and refuses to vote for the status quo.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #44
169. It would be better if "the base" sat on their hands
Instead, they dedicate their entire effort to persuading Democratic voters to stay home, thereby helping the GOP like they always do. There was no turning point. Its been this way since Obama appointed Rahm Emmanuel.

The people Gibbs is talking about aren't really "the base."
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #169
250. wow, you sound like the base is organized.
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Riverman Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
186. LOL, or the Soup Nazi, You Don't Like it, Tough, Nothing for You!
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
182. +100
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
304. stop torture
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 01:10 PM by superconnected
prosecute war crimes
end the patriot act
put a bill forth against ever having an internet kill switch instead of supporting one.

We'll have the rude awaking in Nov if the repukes win because they'll do the same thing only to our face and they want even more corporate dictatorship over us.
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xocet Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #304
348. That certainly would have been a good start. n/t
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
395. ...And net neutrality. Oh, wait, there's the 2-tier "GooVer" plan. Sorry. nt
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The Unknown Derelict Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
601. Independent here...
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:08 PM by The Unknown Derelict
Montanacowboy, those are exactly the reasons why I voted for this administration. A shame I don't think they've been followed through on?
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. They will be satisfied when we have Canadian healthcare and we’ve eliminated the Pentagon.
No, I would just be satisfied if President Obama followed through with the ideas that candidate Obama laid out before the election.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
49. Actually, I WOULD be satisfied if we had Canadian healthcare...
Gibbs is talking like those RWers we ridicule.

Something in the water??

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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #49
130. Me too. And the reason 'it's not reality' is because a decision
was made to stay within the existing for-profit employer based insurance system rather than push for a sructural change.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #130
142. And I can't forgive Obama for that....
But I guess I'll be accused of looking for a pony. Whatever.

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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #142
149. HCR was a big disappointment to me too, especially since I'm
self-employed and have to buy private insurance.

While I dream of single-payer, I knew it wouldn't come immediately because of the entrenchment of the insurance industry, but I was holding out hope for a public option and a gradual lowering of the Medicare age until we got to universal SP.

I don't think that's at all unrealistic if a country wants to take care of its citizens rather than pump money into the private sector. Guess I wanted a pony too.
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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #130
168. But we know very well that structural change
was what was necessary.
And I won't depart from that objective.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #168
192. Of course it is. Staying within the current system only
strengthens it and eventually the industry will find enough loopholes to make the 'reform' disappear.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
251. no. he's just a bitch.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
440. What's wrong with doing that?
Do that and we pick up seats in November and Obama wins in an historic landslide in 2012.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #440
511. You're right ... Canadian Health Care and ending MIC/imperialism = 40 years of Dem rule --!!
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. dismissed? nice word. dismissed from the voting booth?
I wonder.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. I"m not too that the left wants the Pentagon eliminated,
just the budget cut back.(you know, instead of cutting back social programs like food stamps) stopping two useless wars would help a lot. I would have been satisfied with some health care reform (you know. being able to afford to go to the doctor, and not having to pay outrageous deductibles)instead of insurance finance reform. Grow some skin asshole.
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zogofzorkon Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Can't afford drugs at the prices charged by big pharma
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
76. Good one, Zog! Gave me a chuckle...
If we can't have humor, what's left? :evilgrin:

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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. white house =detached from reality.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 08:46 AM by iamthebandfanman
Its like they want to lose the election, i swear.


Im starting to wonder if there is any partys anymore. Its all just the same.

Corporate interests fighting with other corporate interests for corporate domination of the country.


I fear for this country.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. +1 spot on!
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. ive never wished more i was wrong :(
but as the months pass by, the more that sinking feeling sets in.

i hate to be a debbie downer, but i just dont think party or even ideology matter anymore.

we are all being played.

all of us.

both right and left.

keep us fighting, while they do whatever they want.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
331. Better to have your subjects fighting among themselves, than fighting you
Machiavelli, The Prince
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. That's Rahm Emanuel--The Gift That Keeps On Giving to the GOP
He's a vector and the infection all at the same time.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
89. No kidding...
... it seems his "liberals/retarded" comment was more a projection exercise than anything else. The guy likes to think of himself as a bulldog when in reality he is more like a chihuahua: all bark and no bite whatsoever.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #89
275. Oh he's a bulldog alright...
But only to the base of the Democratic party.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
254. BREAKING: Ted Stevens dead in plane crash. News pending.
shit. what a day.
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704wipes Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #254
622. Hey Levi can run for Senator now !!
nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #622
712. Uncle Ted lost the seat a while back.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:06 PM
Original message
+1000% . . . but keep in mind, Obama picked him...
only two explanations for that -- either Obama knew what he was doing --

or he didn't --

I have trouble going with didn't know -- too many things have happened to prop up

did know!!

We need a new Democratic candidate in 2012!!

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #20
187. I'm not convinced a smaller Democratic majority wouldn't be more to their liking.
I have been baffled by the efforts of the administration to suppress the liberal vote. I only see 2 possible reasons for this:

1)They are politically tone deaf idiots (and after the brilliant campaign they ran, I don't believe this).
2)They want to move right & keeping the conservadems in place & adding some Republicans will suit their purposes.

Who the hell bashes their own constituencies?
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #187
404. Well, you named it. Your #2 pretty much sums it up. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #187
515. +1000% -- evidently Pelosi has the same concerns you have!!!
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
99. Exactly!
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
133. Exactly
They may get a reality check in November and again in 2012.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #133
145. but if they do, republicans will really stick it to the middle class
and the poor etc.
One way we lose less, the other way we lose really big.
What a choice.
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
164. I've been saying much of the same thing.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:13 AM by Larry Ogg
The Democratic leadership would much rather see conservatives controlling the government, then they would liberals; whether those conservatives be republican or democrat doesn't really matter, because to them ideology is a facade to garner votes for the status-quo, as apposed to liberals who see ideology as a guide to moral conscience and social justice for all.

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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
403. A contemporary Grand Myth of politics: The Country is Polarized...
It takes two or more poles in electricity and politics. We don't have polarization because there is no effective opposition to the Far Right. If one wishes a constituency to only mean corporate interests, then you can make the pathetic, sophistic argument that there is polarization because you would have an institutionalized pro-corporate party (corporate subsidiary) in the Republican Party, and an entity called the Democratic Party which is crying "Me Too! Me Too!" in an effort to compete for CorpUSA's attention and support. Otherwise, there is no polarization except perhaps within the many cell-layers of the Far Right GOP.

Ain't NO ONE wants "liberals/progressives/left" in its house.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. Good to see Gibbs and the WH have their priorities in tact....
..make sure to not hurt the feelings of republicans or people like Ben Nelson or Blanche Lincoln or Mary Landrieu but go out of your way to make a biting, extended statement about how bad your voting base is.

Look I can handle swallowing the pill of them not pandering to us on the liberal/farther left end of things. But to outwardly direct such venom in our direction while making efforts at every turn to please so many other non democratic constituents is just pathetic, cowardly, and...just rotten.

As someone said earlier in this thread, I'll have to remember this the next time I get a democratic fundraising letter.
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Riverman Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
216. Calculated Move to Appeal to Independents to attempt to capture
a base that Obama and Dems have most since 2008 due to their cowardice on so many fronts, caving to Wall Street, Insurance Industry, Big Oil and Coal on Climate Change legislation (or abandonment). This is to join the right wing crowd to point at the people who are causing the problems - the "professional progressives!" Demoncrats are uncomfortable blaming immigrants when the economy tanks. Republicans have no problem with that - find a vulnerable, smaller population and point at(scapegoat) them for the problems. So for the so-called moderate or corporatist democrats, not supporting gay marraige is easy, attacking progressives is easy. Who is next? Children of gays, of progressives? Maybe we can amend the 14th amendment to include not granting citizenship to people who disagree with us?

Progressives, like me and us, need to continue to fight, support candidates who will speak truth to power, maybe a few will even get elected in certain districts. But, until there is a great call by the population to throw the bums (republicans and right-wing democrats) out and move the agenda, it is going to be a long slog, no doubt!

Thank you Mr. Gibbs, for reminding us of that. I am sure Wall Street has a job waiting for you!
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Riverman Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #216
380. Meant: Dems have lost...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MarinCoUSA Donating Member (783 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. Wow! I feel the enthusiasm rising! Ever rising! Rising!
N/t
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
18. Okay Gibbs
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. "ideological purity"?
Hardly. Sorry to pee in your Wheaties Gibbs, it's just that it would be nice to see the WH and Congress work a little left of center for a change.

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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
173. +1 & LOL nt
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SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
22. You know, the more I think about this, the more it shows a distinct lack of confidence.
They're terrified. If they were confident that news about the economy was going to be good between now and November, they wouldn't be doing this - attacking the very people with the GOTV energy they need. They don't have that confidence, and are therefore grasping at straws.

They think they're going to lose Congress.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. They long since gave Congress away of their own free will.
They don't WANT the power- having it means USING it, and USING it means taking RESPONSIBILITY for it. Every chance they get they go running away from it at top speed.

:puke:
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #31
81. Ding, ding, ding, ding!! We have a WINNAH!
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
498. Yep...+1. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
516. Absolutely -- and that isn't new . .. George Mitchell did the same thing w/Dem majority ...
turned the Dem Senate over to Bob Dole!!

Sometimes it's just more obvious than others --

but this is decades of destruction of the Democratic Party from INSIDE --

We need a new Dem candidate in 2012 --

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #31
692. +1
Spot on!

And I'll join you: :puke:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
60. Who is the base?
Is the base the disconnected sometimes-Independents who have to be convinced to drag themselves to the polls where they vote on issues they don't understand,

or is the base the progressive activists who man the phones, knock on the doors, and are called fucking retards by Rahm?

Frankly, without the left there IS no base.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:40 AM
Original message
Not anymore!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #35
83. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #83
116. This says it all
YOu are more important than the average Democrat. BS. You are trying to be obeyed. How progressive and Democratic of you.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #83
183. Please don't tell people here to leave.
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
115. "you people"
classic!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #35
124. "You peopel" -- rofl
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
61. Lose Congress? They are going to lose America!
Something big is afoot, and they are all scared.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
517. We need a new Democratic candidate in 2012 . . . !!!
And, we should be looking to get this jerk Gibbs fired --

In fact, why the hell is Rahm still in the White House --

How did we ever allow this crap??

Wall Street running the White House and we've been as quiet as lambs!!

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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
153. right you are--and they are setting up progressives to take the blame.
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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
176. The straws they're grasping at are
corporatism and volunteerism.
Same straws that Herbert Hoover grasped at too.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
177. Hell, sounds like they WANT to lose congress for political cover
then every corporate handout and every cut to social programs can be blamed on the opposition instead of having to take responsibility for it themselves. The old good cop/ bad cop routine, and the majority will probably fall for it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #177
518. PELOSI has been tracking this for quite a while and trying to tell us what's going on....
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #177
691. Highly Plausible.. Because they've got nothing.
Nothing like skating in luxury for 2 years before the next election.

The Good Cop Bad Cop scenario is old and hackneyed, and is used way to much right here on DU to make a difference anymore. That game only plays to people that have shallow thinking skill, and don't realize they are being screwed by either the good cop or bad cop.. They are all the same fascist pigs.


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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
179. I think you have something
I think you are right. Very insightful. Backbiting and recriminations only start to happen when failure is perceived and expected.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
451. Maybe they want to lose Congress.
They are more in the loop with the RW evangelical preachers than they are with real people.

Obama sold out women's rights because of ONE SINGLE rally held by the right wing against abortion. So now women have pay mandated insurance policies and have to pay for abortion out of their own pockets!!

however I am a little happy about one person with a "D" after his name - Jerry Brown, who really stepped to the plate last week in light of the Vaughn WIlliams decision on the Gay Marriage, prop H8 ruling.

I now have a reason to vote for him over Piggy Meg.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
24. I'm so, so glad...
...that I told the DNC to knock on their own doors, do the phone calls themselves, and then call Rahm and tell him that I said that he is a "fucking retard" (apologies to those whom care about the mentally challenged, I was just quoting Rahm).
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dem mba Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
26. um, I've literally read posts on DU that compared Obama to Bush
at least policy wise, and I've read several articles around the web that did the same time. Those kinds of comparisons are certainly over the top.

But Gibbs would do well to avoid insulting his base.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #26
52. Agree with this post
There are some ppl that are pissed off that Obama had to compromise. Well jeez, he has 59 seats in the Senate, he needs atleast one republican to get anything passed and that one Republican, whether it's the Maine ladies or Scott Brown, holds all the leverage(as does any moderate Dem that tries to break the coalition i.e Liberman, Lincoln, Nelson). It's not as easy as it looks.

That said, Gibbs said something incredibly stupid. Cue apology in 3, 2,......
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Delver Rootnose Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #52
87. It is not that ...
...compromises had to be made but to me it seems that he hasn't even fought hard for anything. He is the leader and has the bully pulpit and has not used his power. He even, pre-compromised on health insurance reform.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #87
206. He pre-compromised on the health bill? Last I check, he pushed for it until December

But he couldn't get a public option because Lieberman blackmailed against it. It couldn't get a stronger financial regulation bill because Feingold decided to ditch it, and Reid then had to go to Brown and the Maine ladies, who weakened it. On the stimulus, they had to get the Maine ladies and Arlen Specter, when he was still on the other side of the aisle. As for cap-and-trade, no Senator west of the central time zone was ever going to vote for it. That's the problem the Democratic caucus in the Senate, in order for them to win they have put out moderate candidates in places like Arkansas, Alaska, Nebraska, Louisiana. So just because we had 59 seats, doesn't mean a huge wave of liberal bills were going to come in. Don't blame Obama, blame the Senate rules. If only 50 votes were needed, we'd have a bigger stimulus, a better financial regulation bill, and yes, a public option. But it doesn't work that way.

You have to keep in mind, I'm not defending Gibbs and what he said.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #206
313. There is nowhere in the "senate rules" that forces every Dem sponsored law to be passed by cloture
That red herring is starting to smell putridly fishy.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #313
326. Maybe so, but if Republicans filibuster every major bill
Then they do have to pass cloture.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #326
334. So? Let them filibuster every fucking bill.
90% of the GOP in the senate is so old and decrepit they can't stand up for more than 10 minutes without having to go to the rest room.

So a bill takes a couple extra days to get passed, in the big scheme of things: big fucking deal.


There is always a excuse isn't there? And if they had 60 votes, then the "senate rules" will magically claim every bill has to be written as a perfect haiku... and then...


In this country we supposedly elect politicians to represent their constituents, not to make up excuses as to why they can't perform such representative duties. Not a hard concept to get really.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #334
363. Precisely
I am sick to death of getting told that we can't get EFCA, Single Payer Health Care, The wars ended, real financial reform, a bail out for the working class rather than Wall Street that it makes my head want to explode. I know the issues are complex, I understand that there will be compromise, I understand that I won't get everything I want.. but, They didn't even try...:banghead:

and now the folks that helped get them elected, they want to insult.....

Two words come to mind one starts with an "F" and the next one starts with a "Y".

At least I understand that the GOP wants to screw me over, I don't like it but I understand it.

These guys... well, I expected better.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #334
443. If they do filibuster every bill, then there won't be a bill
If you want a REALLY liberal congress, send 70 dems to the Senate. But we're stuck with Liberman, Lincoln, and Nelson and 59. So it's 50-52 lib Dems +7-8 moderate Dems + atleast ONE Republican, to pass cloture if the other side filibusters. And if they other side filibusters, you better have the whole ideologically diverse caucus on your side, which isn't easy. Passing cloutre isn't as easy as you make it sound. If you don't have all 59+1, then forget about the bill passing. That's why we don't have cap-and-trade even though it's gotten through committee. That's why we probably won't get illegal immigration, another stimulus/job bill.


Truth be told, that the administration got a sizeable stimulus, a decent halethcare bill, and a fairly strong financial regulations bill is quite a remarkable achievement esp considering the horrible political climate and the bad economy.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #443
661. Majorities in both houses are now a "horrible political climate"
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:06 PM by liberation
and half assed bills are "remarkable achievements" now?

Seriously, where does it stop?... how low in the intellectual honesty scale are you guys willing to dive in order to basically tell people to stop believing their lying eyes?

Filibusters are not infinite, and the only reason the GOP gets away with them is because of people like you who think delaying a good bill by a couple of days is somehow a worse outcome than getting an awful bill passed early. It is the penultimate appeal to style over substance, it is not about legislate and execute good proper bills, it is about passing a bill regardless of it being good or bad. It makes sense why this admin won so many accolades for advertising and marketing...
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #661
697. I didn't say delaying a bill a couple days was a good thing. Read the Senate rules again, and then
get back to me about "intellectual honesty." Look, I wanted a public option, cap-and-trade, and a strogn financial regulation bill much like you do. But I realize it was poltically unfeasible. So did the Obama administration. These bills weren't half assed by no means. The fact you call it "half-ass" shows that you don't know what's in these bills. I think what happen here was that people expected the moon and weren't willing to compromise and got pissed off that the Administration did. There's excellent examples of Presidents with strong majorities that didn't get everything they wanted(and what they did get, was also watered down), FDR, LBJ, JFK, Clinton, and even Bush couldn't get privatize Social Security in spite of all these presidents at one point(keyword here)having large majorities of their own party. But sure, Obama could get anything he wanted because those Presidents did.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #697
718. Make them fillibuster.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #443
715. "If you want a REALLY liberal congress, send 70 dems to the Senate."
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 07:21 AM by No Elephants
Even 70 Dems, as unrealistic as that is, might not be enough, given that the DNC, Obama and other Party stars seem to fight against the more liberal Democrat every time. (Lamont, Sestak, Halter, Romanoff are a few examples).

So, trying to fight the DNC, Obama and other Party stars--AND Republicans--to get more liberals in Congress is not only a very uneven fight. It's a battle that might only mean more DINOS in Congress, or even more Republicans (because primary fights help the other side, especially if no one rallies around the nominee--ask Lamont).

"Truth be told, that the administration got a sizeable stimulus, a decent halethcare bill, and a fairly strong financial regulations bill is quite a remarkable achievement esp considering the horrible political climate and the bad economy."

People here seem to keep confusing their own personal opinion with "fact" and "truth." No matter how strongly you believe your own opinion, it's still only your own opinion.

Yes, those bills passed. That is fact. However, who got them passed, what people did or did not fight for, how decent or disappointing these bills are and how much of an achievement passing them was and much more, are, as you know, opinions that have been highly debated by knowledgeable people among both the professional left and the amateur left.

For example, Dr. Dean, who wrote a book on health care reform, and Michael Moore, who made a movie about it, and many others, see the HCR bill as highly flawed and itself in need of reform, as do many people who ultimately voted for it because it was better than no bill at all (what a standard!) And so on.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #206
519. Obama put Baucus in charge of Health care -- pre-owned and pre-bribed by insurance industry....
and Obama is also pretty much in the Baucus/insurance industry boat!!

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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #519
549. Right, cause Obama chooses Baucus to sit on the Senate Finance Committee
Especially in 2007 when he was still the Junior Senator from Illinois......
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #549
567. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #567
611. Obama is trying to destroy Medicare & Social Security? This is news to me
So you seriously think the junior Senator from Illinois who was like 90th in Seniority is going to have Harry Reid's ear as to how he should set up Committee Chairman?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #611
653. Where have you been . . . ???
The panel set up by Obama -- is majority Republican --

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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #653
695. Your not making any sense.
The better question is, where have you been?!?!?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #206
722. Your checker and/or your memory is lacking.
Obama was not fighting for a health care bill until last December. Obama did not ever need to fight a Democratic Congress at all for any ole health reform bill. That some bill in some form was going to pass was a 100% certainty.

Obama was certainly not fighting for a public option until last December. After giving it some lip service, he was calling it a "sliver" and not very important long before December, chiding his "friends on the left" for even urging him to fight for it. Nor did Obama need Lieberman's vote to pass the bill because it ultimately pased by reconciliation, requiring only 50 Senators plus Biden.

Obama met first with health insurers, Big Pharma and Big Medical Providers. When the ACLU tried to get the White House logs to expose those back room bargaining sessions Obama had promised he would not have, Obama refused the ACLU on silly reasons, then fought the ACLU's formal FOIA request in Court.

He killed a bill for drug re-importation. He refused to meet with doctors advocating single payer. He refused to meet with the House Progressive Caucus until after Baucus and Collins had finished watering down the bill health insurers, Big Pharma and Big Medical Providers had written. Then Obama began to fight for that watered down bill.

He fought the House Progressive Caucus, Kuchinich, Sanders and others. He fought his "friends on the Left. He fought doctors groups, except for the ones that dutifully showed up, as requested, in their lab coats, for a photo op.

Did he "pre-compromise" on the bill? You bet. He started "pre-compromising" while he campaigned, giving away single payer without getting anything in return from anyone, except maybe some approval from health insurers, Big Pharma and Big Medical Providers. Did he "pre-compromise" further with those groups? Sure looked like it.







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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #87
247. This is Exactly
my issue. I expect compromise and am not a purist by any stretch. You just get the impression that they aren't even TRYING. This was my issue with Clinton, although he got something right now and then despite not using the bully pulpit like he could have done so well. Obama hasn't taken a stand on much of anything, even if he had to retreat a bit in the end. I was never convinced O was much of a liberal, but I did expect a few bones to be thrown.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #52
125. The Administration didn't compromise, it embraced
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #125
201. Embraced what?
It couldn't get a public option because Lieberman blackmailed against it. It couldn't get a stronger financial regulation bill because Feingold decided to ditch it, and Reid then had to go to Brown and the Maine ladies, who weakened it. On the stimulus, they had to get the Maine ladies and Arlen Specter, when he was still on the other side of the aisle. As for cap-and-trade, no Senator west of the central time zone was ever going to vote for it. That's the problem the Democratic caucus in the Senate, in order for them to win they have put out moderate candidates in places like Arkansas, Alaska, Nebraska, Louisiana. So just because we had 59 seats, doesn't mean a huge wave of liberal bills were going to come in. Don't blame Obama, blame the Senate rules. If only 50 votes were needed, we'd have a bigger stimulus, a better financial regulation bill, and yes, a public option. But it doesn't work that way.

You have to keep in mind, I'm not defending Gibbs and what he said.
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #201
256. All True
but he never went to the voters. It all may have turned out the same, with the exception that he would have been on record as taking a position (maybe the real problem). Politics may LOOK like an inside the Beltway chess game if you are inside the Beltway, but I don't care what anybody says, anybody can be voted out of office. Obama made no attempt to sell public option, a bigger stimulus or a better financial regulation bill (ESPECIALLY not a better financial regulation bill) to the country. If you want better Senators to work with, you have to prime the pump at the voting booth, not stand around shaking in your boots about what FOX will say next.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #256
323. He sold the public option to his speech to Congress and he took a lot of heat for his town hall
I'll concede the point on the stimulus, but not on the financial regulation bill. He went with Dodd instead of Frank's version of the bill, because Dodd's version was tougher....
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #323
738. He didn't sell squat or we'd have a public option. As far as taking heat, LOL,
that's what politicians are supposed to be able to do.

"He went with Dodd instead of Frank's version of the bill, because Dodd's version was tougher...."

Oh, so he does get to make those kinds of choices? Or was it Congress that went with Dodd's bill? The ground seems to shift quite a bit when some folk discuss Obama's ability to affect legislation. Either he's completely helpless, which is a laugh, or he's responsible for getting the legislation passed. LOL

And why didn't Obama "went" with reinstating Glass Steagall, as Feingold wanted? We never would have had a mortgage derivatives meltdown if Clinton hadn't urged and signed its repeal. And Feingold is correct: until we reinstate Glass Steagall, we will continue to be vulnerable.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #201
521. Lieberman -- Superman -- ran the Democratic Party according to Obama ...!!!
Believable? Not!
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #521
548. Obama didn't say that, I did.
When you have a coalition that includes middle(and in Liberman's case, middle-right) voters, then you're going to have certain Senators that enormous levels of leverage. Nelson, Liberman, the Maine ladies, and Scott Brown come to mind...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #548
566. Obama acted it out -- turned Lieberman into "Superman" ... did we not notice???
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #566
610. Seriously do you just make this stuff up as you go?
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #201
627. I'll trust Russ Feingold's opinion on who to blame for
the health insurance bailout:

"It would be unfair to blame Lieberman for its apparent demise... President Barack Obama...could have insisted on a higher standard for the legislation.This bill appears to be legislation that the president wanted in the first place, so I don’t think focusing it on Lieberman really hits the truth. I think they could have been higher. I certainly think a stronger bill would have been better in every respect."
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #627
698. Yeah, and Feingold shoudl really be talking about he did the same thing Liberman
did on the financial regulation bill.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #698
735. Congratulations!
A red herring and a straw man all in the same sentence! Feingold's reasoning was exactly the opposite of Lieberman's on fin reg.

He's spot on with both his position on fin reg and on why we have mandates with no public option.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #201
630. Or Glenn Greenwald's opinion:
"The evidence was overwhelming from the start that the White House was not only indifferent, but opposed, to the provisions most important to progressives. The administration wants not only to prevent industry money from funding an anti-health-care-reform campaign, but also wants to ensure that the Democratic Party -- rather than the GOP -- will continue to be the prime recipient of industry largesse. If you're interested in preserving and expanding political power, then, all other things being equal, it's better to have the pharmaceutical and health insurance industry on your side than opposed to you."

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/12/16/white_house/index.html
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #201
726. You left out something important.
Feingold ditched the financial reform bill because it was already too weak for his liking--specifically it would not avoid another crisis like the one most of us learned of in 2008--which we had been told was one of the most important reasons for the bill.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/37393/feingold-will-vote-against-financial-services-reform-bill

Rather than fight to get Feingold what Feingold wanted--and what the public has always been promised the bill would definitely do---Democrats made the bill even weaker.

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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #52
205. Apology?
You really think so?:shrug: I would be very surprised if one were offered.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #205
210. What he said was pretty stupid, both from a political perspective and in general.
He's going to need the left if the Dems have any shot at winning in November.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #210
229. Agreed on all counts.
But he made this statement for a reason. It was not a slip of the tongue. Unless the pushback is extremely hard by the "professional left", I don't even think he'll even mention it again. There was no apology for the "retard" statement either. They really don't care.
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #229
471. A minor correction:
There *was* an apology for the retarded comment.
They apologized to Sarah Palin and Fox News.
Don't you feel better now?
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #471
541. No.
I had mercifully forgotten that. Yikes. ;(
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #26
57. Just read two yesterday. (nt)
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. See #13, right in this thread.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #65
97. You Mean DUer Lost4Words?
Just so we're clear.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #97
110. Yes, Bush took the USA 3 steps to the right we are supposed to be pleased with one step to the left?
Just so we are clear!
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #110
122. I Agree With You Lost4words
Sent you a pm.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #110
524. +1000% -- and Obama loaded WH+Administration with Wall Street/DLC'ers . ..
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 06:15 PM by defendandprotect
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #97
137. I mean post #13. I wasn't paying attention to the author.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #65
108. You can bet I did, and will continue as long as its true!
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #57
104. and you will read many many more
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
410. "Comparisons" are unavoidable, esp. when someone asks:
"Well, didn't you expect Guantanamo to be closed? The wars to be drawn down quickly? A big jobs program? A sensible health care plan? A firm stand for net neutrality? Solid protection for Social Security? Real financial reform?" And a host of other questions. Frankly, I cannot honestly argue that many of Obama's policies have NOT been continuations of GW's. Does this mean I will vote GOP, or not vote in November at all? No, it merely means that the Obama Administration has firmly and aggressively distanced themselves from the liberal/progressive traditions and values of the Democratic Party.

And I will re-assess my meager financial resources, energy and time in light of this Cheney-es-que sneer at the things I support.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #410
608. Why is Obama compared with Bush because of the BP spill
His letting BP call the shots was absolutely corporatist

He will not be there a second term
The Iraq War Guantanamo banksters Insurance debacle Afghanistan War
and the biggest is his Justice Department ...not arresting the attorneys fired and criminals of theft with the banks

I could go on and on

the drug testing that needs to be done is doofus who called for it
The Emperor has no clothes and has lied over and over again
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #608
728. Well, I'm not doing that "comparison."
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
473. Well, lets see: tourture is still going on, the Banksters are being sucked up to...
Obama is against same-sex marriage. I'm not seeing very many differences.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #473
525. DLC still INSIDE the party -- and Rahm inside the White House....
what did we really expect after Obama eloped with Wall Street and DLC???

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
643. If Obama follows a Bush policy we found objectionable under Bush, no one should mention it?
And why would mentioning it be over the top?
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. Way to show your hand, Gibbs
Are you gonna go home, watch Reefer Madness, and feel all self-righteous this evening?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
29. Thank you Robert Gibbs for my new sig line
It will insure that I wont forget what you said, especially on election day.
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. +1 n/t
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
128. Gibbs sounds like every one of these pathetic little local wingnut radio talkers;
all thinking they're the next "El Drugbo", with the talking points he chose to spew!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #128
526. Think Gibbs is less concerned about Repugs getting re-elected than he is
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 06:18 PM by defendandprotect
that liberals/progressives know the game they're playing and are calling

them out on it !!

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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
32. I think I suddenly understand
and really, this statement is the last straw. Who the FUCK does this administration believe put it in the white house in the first place?

Left or right, they want us dumb and compliant or they don't want us at all. I'm an independent who has voted dem since Bush I and while I'm no professional, I have a massive extended family of dems who is.

Fuck it. This is personal.
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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
37. INCORRECT, Mr. Youngman.
The White House is simmering with anger at criticism from liberals who say President Obama is more concerned with deal-making than ideological purity.


Wrong.
The professional left, the traditional liberals, are angry with the president because he favors the interests of the profit-making corporate class over the public good.
He is like GW Bush in that foreign policy has not changed.
The "professional left"?
We are the true left, the sincere left, and the advocates of the people.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Apparently stupidity bothers us...you, not so much apparently...n/t
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
58. I think the stupidity Gibbs is talking about bothers us.
See anything that looks familiar?
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. "You people"? WTF?
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:29 AM by Fly by night
I was curious to learn how long you've been hanging around with "us people", but since you have no profile, I can only guess.

Welcome to DU.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Yeah, that jumped out at me too. nt
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #46
72. I think Cary returned undercover.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #46
100. "You people" is a common phrase used by this poster
and it always stands out.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #100
106. Well, "you people" is inherently an insult so it would stand out. n/t
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #100
126. Who was it?
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #46
107. I think he came here for some pizza.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #107
347. I believe, if s/he got TS'd, you'd be able to see profile & name
that's what I heard, at any rate :shrug:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #46
121. All up and down the thread
Also the word 'type' as in your type.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #46
345. It's always used to denote 'the other'
and is the opposite of complimentary.

That it's been used towards we libruls, on DU no less, is disturbing in the extreme
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #38
94. "you people"???????? LOL.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 10:07 AM by liberation
I really wonder if you were deluded enough to think your avatar was masking your stripes.
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wundermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
40. Hmm... I feel a song comin' on... sing along with me...
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:22 AM by wundermaus
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #40
135. nice pick!
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
41. Hmm, so Gibbs claims to be outraged and the "professional" left
who will remain nameless are ungrateful and unappreciative.

Thank you Gibbs, you have produced more than enough confirmation for me. I honestly appreciate it, more than you likely ever
imagined.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #41
114. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #114
140. Pay attention to the concerns of the rich, pretending their concerns are yours.. and we fall into
the deep dark hole again and again.  

Gibbs and Obama are not the Democrats we need.

We must get organized and get Grayson, or Franken, or Weiner
or Feingold to run against them.

Obama has kept the Bush folks around, continue their policies,
are murdering civilians via drones, continuing to pump money
into Pakistan to fund the Taliban to kill our own, will not
take the path of least resistance on legalization of pot and
ending the war on drugs, will not give us a public
option...are not going to end wars.

With Dems like this in the house, the people have nothing, the
infrastructure is falling apart, Goldman Saks and the rest of
them walk off with settlements smaller than the profits they
made from criminal behavior they should be doing time for...
this whole America thing is like a cancer full of bad cells
and we really need a ballsy guy who will ignore the wealthy in
our nation and start grassroots movements with OUR TAX DOLLARS
to pull us out of this.  Asap.  No more fooling around, folks.
 This is it.  If you want a land of peace and freedom, you
better find a way to root out this evil and replace it asap. 

IMNSHO..... big dinosaur companies need to roll over and do
the opposite if they want to stay in the game. 
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #114
238. We need a national wake up coin called the "conservative character coin"
With republicans on one side and democrats on the other (referring to the leaders of both parties).
And no mater which side comes up, the elite predator class wins and everyone else looses.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
47. I don't understand the professional left comment, but agree
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:31 AM by izzybeans
that anyone saying Obama is just like Bush is crazy. Comparisons are fine.

But I've seen that conflation here a lot. Mostly from reactionaries with little to say and low reading comprehension. It's rational to compare them, which is what most thinking people here do.

It's irrational to believe they are the same or to say that they are.

On another note: I don't get the boohooing over this statement. Who gives a rip? Are we that sensitive? I'm going to chalk this up in the "can dish it, but refuse to take it" category. And that is true of Gibbs too.

We are locked in a Tu Quoque stalemate.
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awnobles Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
48. Very Poorly Done
Many other ways to defend oneself bedies attacking your allies.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
53. Tsk, didn't get a pony? nt
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #53
132. I would have been happy with no pony, its this pile of pony shit thats the problem!
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 10:28 AM by Lost4words
:banghead:
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
54. I get tired of the bus tire marks on my face. nt
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
55. This admunistration doesn't fuckin know
when to keep its mouth shut.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
56. Waaah Mommy! They called me a Republican!
I'll tell Mr. Gibbs what reality is..

A Single term president that exposed the Corporatocracy for all to see due to its unabashed, blatant spoonfeeding of the Oligarchs, the War Machine, and the Corporations while ignoring its people.

I'd settle for cutting the Pentagon budget by a third as a show of faith.. But that's not reality is it?

How about following through on healthcare for our Vets instead of shutting down facilities and reducing staff?

How about creating fewer Vets in the first place?

How about jumpstarting real Alternate Energy projects, instead of subsidizing obsolete technologies like CdTe on glass? or a Solar Powered steam kettle built by a foereign corporoation no less?

Mr. Gibbs. If the shit fits, wear it proudly, but don't whine and try to deny it.



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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
59. The WH sure can find their gonads when it comes to insulting their base...
When I read the title in the OP I thought maybe they were going to quote somethein Rham said. Sounds like him.

Keep it up, guys! :mad:



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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #59
427. +1
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #59
530. It seems we're getting in the way of their real agenda . . . which doesn't seem to have anything
to do with any legitimate Democratic Party Platform concerns --

or Democratic Party ideals -- !!!

Guess a few of us have noticed that -- and our talking about it is pissing them off!!

What a jerk!! -- Fire him!!

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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
62. Mr. Gibbs might want to remember just who it was that put his boss in office.
without the left Obama would but just another footnote in political history along the lines of Dukakas.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #62
203. It wasn't the "professional left."
Sorry, but in my state, what put Mr. Obama over the top was the hard work of centrists and Dem party stalwarts.

We were the election judges. The canvassers. The organizers. The people who donated.

I watched the Greens and the Socialists in my state ally with the mofo Repukes to attempt election fraud.

And this election? The Greens are trying the same shit with Sestak.

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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #203
219. I worked the campaign and was election judge too
the first one of my life because I believed. I'll vote for him again because I'd sooner die than elect a rethug but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hugely disappointed.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #219
232. Well, unfortunately, there are posters here who would rather elect
a Rethug.

Governance takes responsibility. Anyone who thought Obama wasn't a centrist wasn't listening. He certainly told us he was.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #232
315. When, where and how did Obama ever defined his actual ideological leanings during the election?
Sources please.
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Phlem Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #232
462. Wow
if there are then what the hell are they doing in this group. I don't know of any true Dem that would vote repuke. I am throughly disappointed in Mr. Obama, I would vote for a better Dem, there's no F*cking way I'd vote republican ever, especially in their current state.

Also I tell everyone I know to never vote republican and lay out the case why not.

If there are Dems here that would vote republican, then they're not Dems.

-p
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #232
531. If Obama had said that he was going to attack Social Security/Medicare would you have
voted for him?

Now let the alibis begin!!

Would Pelosi be saying the same things we're saying here --

this is stupidity or betrayal of Democrats this close to the election --

AND THIS IS THE THIRD TIME THIS HAS HAPPEND -- IN MY COUNT!!

Would Pelosi be saying . . . "Obama was for a lot of things during the campaign . . .

he's no longer for!!"

Pelosi knows and she's been calling the WH out on it -- if you've been paying attention!
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Phlem Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #203
458. really?
In my state it was everyone who voted Dem, including hippies and the far left, of which I am a part of. I would imagine it could be different in another state even. Centrists and stalwarts aren't the only group that Obama elected I can promise you that.

-p
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #62
634. Ay, there's the rub(s): The left voted for Dukakis, too.It was not enough to elect
Dukakis, though. Neither Party's base is enough. You have to attract somw indies. You can do that by great messaging. Or by spending big bucks. Or by seeming like a better version of the other guy/gal.

So, the battle is for the indies. The conventional wisdom is that your base has no choice but to vote for you. And Nader 2000 did not change that appreciably, though I am not 100% sure why.
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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #634
734. only those of the left that showed up voted for Dukakis.....
the point being, if your base stays home, say, because you managed to piss them off 3 months before the election you can have all the indies you want, you still won't get elected. You're wrong, the base ALWAYS has a choice.....they can choose to not show up at all. I agree, you need the indies too, but without your base, no one is knocking on doors, making phone calls, sending money....or voting.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
750. Evidence please
I'd like to know why you think Dukakis picked up all the votes he needed from the center but not from the left, with some nombers rather than your own personal feelings about that election. If the left wing of the Democratic party is so large, Dennis Kucinich should have been polling far higher in the primaries, instead of the usual single-digit showing.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
63. I will indeed be VERY satisfied with Canadian health care and Pentagon elimination....
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:53 AM by mike_c
Seems Gibbs and I agree about something after all! And guess what you'd find if you tested me for drugs? :smoke:
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Delver Rootnose Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
64. Well...
We are still in two useless, unwinable and resource draining wars. One more than before the other less.

Osama Bin Laden hasn't been captured. And that is still not the focus of either war.

Guantanamo bay is still open for business as a legal limbo to stash inconvenient people.

The patriot act is stronger than before.

The promised change in how things get done in Washington has not happened. There still is little transparency and back room deals still prevail. Lobbyist for the powerful still rule.

The interests of big business and the well healed still are more important than the average person. CEO's still make hugely more than average worker.

Whistle blowers still are being prosecuted Rather than lauded.

So I guess I have to say in a very systematic way things have not changed and Obama is either does not want to take on the Republicans or fears to because he might make some old white guys into raving racists.

I am so disappointed in him but I knew he could not win in the power game. Unless i see some real changes I will support a primary challenge.
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theophilus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
67. The left, all of us, need to pour it on. This administration might actually
make some changes when pressured by the left. A reptard admin. would, of course, not. Let's vote Democratic in the election coming up but make the President keep his promises by complaining publicly and citing examples, as in the article. We can do this. Even FDR told the Dems they should "make him" follow through on his promises. We need to make sure our voices get to the President. He probably doesn't read DU. Go to the next levels.......
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #67
351. we're already discounted
the pres has shown his stripes, and there's not a liberal one among them -- not even a shadow.

They just want to insult us, then be able to count on our votes and money :mad:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #67
532. We need a new Dem presidential candidate in 2012 . . . We need a liberal/
progressive Democrat to step up --

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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #532
569. Yes we do
And we need to start encouraging some of the true leftists to do just that. Maybe we should even start a draft movement. The stakes are too high to continue on the current path.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #569
576. Agree!! 1000% . . . I'm frankly amazed that no Democrat has stepped up yet to challenge!!???
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 07:49 PM by defendandprotect
Looking at what's been going down -- why the hell not?

From the very first, this fish has stunk -- Obama eloping into White House with

Wall Street and DLC -- Rahm!!

All the failed efforts -- and this pretty much put the cherry on the cake today --

looks more and more like this WH has quite a different agenda from Democratic voters!!

Dodd is also working to keep Warren out of Consumer affairs --

And we've been much too quite about all of this -- all of it!!





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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #576
585. Yes, we've been much too quiet
We've been shouted down and berated and accused of everything from wanting a damned pony to wanting Palin to be president. All of that smacks of desperation. The writing is on the wall: this administration is far afield from Democratic ideals and policies. If we shut up and settle for what we have, we deserve what we get - and I am in no way going to hang up my Democratic banner and be herded further and further to the right.

The leftists among us need to send a clear message that we want a better alternative.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #585
589. The administration game-playing -- eh .... "Chess Game" bought a lot of time for mischief making---!
We all need to set our BS meters much higher --

From the first -- eloping into White House with DLC-corporate wing leadership --

and Wall Street!! What a farce!!

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mike r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
69. Gibbs & Emanuel: Progressives are not merely retarded, but crazy and drug-addled
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #69
157.  Is it just me or does this sound like Ray Romano's father?
Next, they'll be calling us "Nancy". Gawd almighty, stop them before speak again.

lol
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #157
191. They sound more and more like Bill O'Reilly every day
soon they'll sound like Rush Limbaugh. Truly pathetic.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #69
533. This duo and betrayal of the base have to go . . . and new Dem for WH in 2012, please!!
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
70. Dear Mr. Gibbs. I am anti-DLC. The DLC is Republican. The President is surrounded by the DLC.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:46 AM by peacetalksforall
Some of what the President has done is really shocking.
Why don't you stop calling some of us naysayers.
Why not say we are on the fence.
Why not examine how some of us despise the DLC and see
them as One World for Corporations enablers.

Why not honor our desire for peace.

Why get tight with the military brass who are all about death,
weapons, and industry.

Where is Obama's Department of Peace.

Tell a young child that there is no Department of Peace.

This country appears to have been designated (by multi-national
CEO's and powers that be) as the world's military AND someone
has decided that these powers should own the earth recources -
earth, human, sky.

Shall we concede that there is an awful lot of enabling going on?

We have a different dream. Don't put us down for it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #70
590. DLC is corporate cancer INSIDE the Democratic Party . . . !!!
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
71. I didn't know there were this many 'professional left'
(now, victims) were here on DU....

Just goes to show.....
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #71
353. See this "victims" hand?
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 02:15 PM by Cherchez la Femme
See 4 curled fingers, and one standing at attention?

What the hell did you expect to find at Democratic Underground for god's sake?
Authoritarians? :crazy:

And WHAT, pray tell, does it "go(es) to show"?




edit: typo
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
73. You all better have paid your taxes on your leftist paychecks.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
74. Yep - we're "fucking retarded" and need to be drug tested. LOVELY!
assholes.
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #74
90. Well, ya know, I was looking for a job
but the only job opening for a retard on dope was Professional Leftist.

:sarcasm:

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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
75. i wouldn't be satisfied with just Canadian healthcare
and elimination of the pentagon. it would take equal rights for all, real education reform, and a serious program to end poverty as well

but besides that, what the heck is a professional liberal?
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. Yep, my list is A LOT bigger than that as well. I was wondering the same thing
about "professional" liberal, is that supposed to be an insult?
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
77. Shutting down discourse by insults
is the best way to divide the party.

I am disappointed in people's lack of social skills. How on Earth are we going to begin to solve problems if some people bubble off and start using dialog ending personal insults instead of expressing exactly what is making them so angry so everyone can understand. I am all ears, but I do not want to hear character assassinations.

You know after such an enlightening discussion about the use of shaming in our culture, I met some fantastic people here. Shame is used to make people doubt their principles and their very identity. By hearing things like:

-We don't want your kind here.

-Those people need to be drug tested.

I'm just calling it like I see it. These are shaming techniques to derail discussion. Now it is time for some real diplomacy.

What I would like to hear from the WH, is that the ideals we all agree on are still in place. I know there has been progress, but insults to the left make it hard to know where we are being led to right now.

That is all. Respect to everyone.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #77
289. +1
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
79. Instead of working with the liberals, the White House spokes people find it more productive to
publicly dis them. This isn't the first time that they have chosen this route. A similar thread was presented yesterday on DU where Chris Dodd was saying something similar. You remember Senator Dodd don't you, he is one of the Senators who got preferential treatment, and under market interest rates from Countrywide

The most revealing thing is instead of addressing the criticism, they choose to attack the liberals. All Gibbs needed to say was something like the Democrats are an inclusive party and not concerned with ideological purity. By taking this approach it demonstrates that there is most likely some truth in the criticism


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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #79
290. +1
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #79
356. Is it my imagination or
is the WH deferential to just about everybody else (including, by far, Republicans)
except Liberals?
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #356
573. I don't think it is your imagination /nt
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
80. Best... Idea... EVER.
Insult your money base and your most passionate work force.

Try to peel off a few of those "independent voters", by making it appear you don't care about the left.

I am sure the money, volunteers and votes they just sacrificed are well worth the voter(s) they may have convinced.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #80
105. It's like Target - their political contribution cost them more
that $150,000. Sooo - the WH is totally fine with the Tea-baggers, but loathes the Democratic base. It's bizarre.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
84. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
85. Professional left?
Odd. I didn't know I could make a living at this. I guess I can quit my day job now.
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harvey007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
92. I want my $25 back
I was already mad at Obama for interfering in the Colorado Democratic Party's primary election.

This is a terrible insult to the "small people" who got Obama elected.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #92
202. I want the months of canvassing and calling back
and those thousands of dollars I lost taking all that time off work!
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #92
245. I want my money back from John Edwards! NFT
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #245
459. +1
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
93. “They will be satisfied when we have Canadian healthcare ..."
Like that's a bad thing?
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #93
101. Yeah, what's up with that statement. I would
take Canadian healthcare over the piece of shit we have now.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #101
146. and the bloated, bloated Pentagon?
could be way slimmed down and the money used to develop sustainable power.
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #101
327. Gladly. Quickly. Happily! +1 n/t
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
95. I assume that the professional left is the same thing as 'latte liberals'.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #95
358. I don't drink latte'
so I best turn in my Official Professional Librul card


-----but give me fresh-brewed Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee ANY day! :woohoo:
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
96. He should be tested for drugs. Fucking crackhead!
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #96
112. *SNAP* (nt)
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
98. Gibbs and Rahm set the tone for the Administration. We're listening... If you don't want our votes
then I'll be glad to oblige.

Has Obama forgotten his roots in community organizing, and has money tainted him too?
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BridgeTheGap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. I guess they've decided they can get by on the corporate purse strings and don't need us "activists"
any more. Crying shame!
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
103. Truth hurts, I guess. There is irony in Gibbs statement...
in that he wants to use the very same police state apparatus on liberals as the GOP does.

Joy.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
109. War that kills and maims innocents and drains out Treasury is a liberal agenda, I guess. nt
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 10:16 AM by valerief
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #109
360. Damn our Librul eyes!
:(
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
111. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Stoic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
113. The only voters they care about are traditional conservative ones
The Democratic leadership (and really, Obama, too) have moved so far to the right that it's acceptable to stick their thumb in the eyes of the Liberals and Progressives every chance they get.

That's who they think will re-elect them. That and all that sweet, sweet Corporate money coming their way.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
118. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
123. I agree with Gibbs 100%. Kucinich wouln't be good enough for some on this board. I get
sick of hearing all of the complaints, no matter how much gets done. Fighting for your rights and your cause is good but when you can't see the difference between Bush and Obama you have
definitely lost all perspective.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #123
129. +1 n/t
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #123
139. Yeah, the differences are SO stark!
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 10:39 AM by Roland99
Guantanamo Bay: Still open
PATRIOT Act: Still in force and still used, in fact, even moreso according to some articles I've read
Wall St coddling: Still in effect. Obama tossed aside people like Reich and sidled up with Bank of America execs that he put in his top economic spots
Corporatism: Health care "reform" that is a boon to private insurers (who helped craft the legislation). Wall St "reform" that barely registered as a slap on the wrist (again, big banks and top execs helped craft it and it was watered down to cater to the GOP)
Treatment of gays: DADT still in force, President stated again the other day he's against same-sex marriages (he's fine with "civil unions" or somesuch...nice attempt at nuance there.
Wars: Afghanistan has been escalated. Still wasting billions in Iraq.


My oh my I don't see how ANYONE can't see those differences!!
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #139
196. +10000.
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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #139
199. +1 nt
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #139
259. exactly...
gee, how could one possibly compare...
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #139
428. +1
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dencol Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #123
303. LOL. Well, I am pissed at their swipe of Kucinich.
Many on the left, including myself, view him as one of our heroes for the work he does and for his consistent push for legislation helping the middle class and poor. At least Kuch tries. That's the difference between him and Obama. Obama does not use the bully pulpit to push legislation to the left. Of course, the President cannot always deliver on everything, but we're not hearing him try to fight for the public option or signle-payer; he's not calling for the immediate withdrawal from occupations; he's not demanding unemployment extensions for the 99ers... Kuch and others would be much more vocal.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #303
338. And in Party reality, Dennis is a candidate at this time
and good Democratic volunteers are working hard to defeat his Republican rival, while Gibbs lends aid and comfort to the other side.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #338
429. +1
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
127. Why is wanting Canadian Healthcare a BAD thing?
That statement tells us all we need to know about the "capitulation" of the "HCR."
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #127
332. Because we don't have it.
We're supposed to be ecstatically happy with whatever we're given, never question the process that gave it to us, and never ever EVER ask for more.

Don'tcha know that by now?



:sarcasm: Very very bitter :sarcasm:




TG, NTY
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
131. K & R Thanks for reminding me
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 10:30 AM by SlingBlade

Proud member of the F'ing Retarded Drug Addled Progressives Club of the “professional left”



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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #131
134. Perfect
I like it.:)
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #131
136. Very good return, 5 Stars! n/t
:hi:
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #131
364. Oooh! Oooh! Do I have to join?
Or am I automatically in?
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
138. We elected Clinton II.
Which I predicted and is fine with me. Bill Clinton was a great President.

He's not George Bush. He is accomplishing things for regular people. Possibly more than Bill did in the long run, assuming we keep Congress this Fall.

I just want to see the 23 million jobs that Bill created return.

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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
141. On Drugs?
Isn't that very typical stereotyping of us liberals by the right, that we are on drugs.

Rahm says "F" you and now Gibbs accuses us of being on drugs. When did Gibbs ever accuse the right of being on drugs?

The way "not" to win hearts and minds of progressives. Perhaps they are really trying to when the right by bashing the left, as they always do in the tactic of triangulation.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
143. Give Gibbs his due.
At least he called us "professional". :rofl:

Truly, Gibbs sounds like a desperate man who is all puffed up on DLC talk.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #143
163. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
147. I'd have been satisfied with a public option & defense spending cuts.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 10:52 AM by laughingliberal
Mr Gibbs,

Hyperbole much?
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
148. I would like to see Gibbs grant an interview with Scott Horton, there
are more than a few others who are as sharp as Horton, but I would like to see the interviews start with him.

Gibbs is getting a pass here, and is not being challenged on any level, he is merely lashing out.


Gibbs isn't stupid, he is highly unlikely to ever grant such an interview he could not control. Horton would mop the
floor with him speaking directly about the policies under Bush and Obama. Gibbs accomplished nothing but name calling here.

Come on Gbbs, take on a real challenge, and stop behaving so cowardly.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
150. And just as I'm deciding how much to help with the fall fundraising
:eyes:
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
151. I guess they don't need a vote from this drug-addled retard.
Fuck 'em then. :smoke:
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
152. Icing meet cake.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
154. That’s not reality.
Why isn't it?

Canada has Canadian health care and no bloated Pentagon and they seem to be doing better than the USA. That's reality... right over there.... just up there.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
155. Sorry butt would never disrespect repubs like that!
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
158. So, the WH doesn't want our money or time at all then.
Suits me. Had I done nothing during the Bush years the result would have been exactly the same, except we would have a new kitchen by now.
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #158
171. They get their money from corporate donors anyway.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #171
174. And apparently, that's who they serve. nt
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
159. Just emailed the WH;
Asking when I am due at my nearest blood testing center. I await their response.
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
160. Professional left? Ideological purity? Enough strawmen to feed a horse for a full year.
Or should I say a pony?
That's one tired, baseless insult that Gibbs didn't use.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #160
367. Actually straw is bedding
(for horses to poop on!)
Hay, as in 'making', is the preferred horse feed.

:)
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #160
370. It's a distinction between those who create careers out of dissent, compared to those who actually
ARE the Left.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
161. and I thought that got the message after Rahm dropped the ball
Gibbs is being an ass. Flew an email up at the white house for that one. I'll be one of the crazies then. Nobody's saying he's like bush 100 %. He's like Bush maybe 45 %. Think Gibbs needs a vacation.
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backtomn Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
162. Quite a strategy
I was thinking that the Dems needed a strong turnout from the base to prevent a disaster in November. Ooops.

If they keep this up, maybe they can get a couple extra votes from Republicans. :(
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
165. fuck them...
i guess it`s crystal clear what the whitehouse thinks of the progressives in the party.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
166. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
167. He forgot the one about comparing Robert Gibberish to Sara Palin
Gibbs Gibbs Gibbs- you lose votes when you abuse the activist base who put you there.

Who do you actually gain votes from when you abuse the base? Do you think the teabaggers will vote for you now because you sound like an ersatz Billo the Clown? Yeah, fat chance, Gibberish.

Fire Robert Gibbs
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Demoiselle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
170. Well, he's right, actually.
I WILL be satisfied when we have Canadian healthcare. As for the Pentagon, it doesn't have to be eliminated. Just shrunk. (Bathtub size, perhaps?)
Gee, I didn't know that that made me a Professional.

I'm flattered.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
172. Undisciplined political MORONS!!
90 days before an election and they're up their screaming insults at members of their own party?

Gibbs should be immediately fired. Period. They keep this up there is NO CHANCE! ZERO! For getting reelected.

They are showing as more political incompetence than any president in modern history. FOR NOTHING!

I wash my hands of these ass clowns.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
175. So what did Gibbs say that was so wrong???
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:34 AM by Gman
The man spoke the absolute truth. These people wouldn't be happy with Kucinich as president.

Obama needs to understand that the far left is NOT his friend. They never were, they never will be. They are no one's friend, but are only self-absorbed in their own perceived righteousness that they defend with faux indignation.

But I think that anyone that says Obama is no better than Bush doesn't need drug testing, they need their head examined for being totally out of touch.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #175
190. You're right. The White House needs to be out in the press before an election
slamming Democrats. That'll show the "far left".

lol
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #190
198. The people the WH may be "slamming" are damn sure NOT Democrats
so what is the problem? If you support the president and are not trying to tear him down then you're part of the base. If not, you're not. Pretty simple.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #198
239. Well, I sure hope the leadership isn't counting on winning with only the voters
that support them 100%.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #239
252. I rest my case.. you just made it for me.
You don't support the president or the Democratic Party. You're not his base.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #252
260. LOL.
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cyr330 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #252
288. He needs all of us to win. . .
Whether we're part of his "base" or not, he can't win without attracting a significant number of us as well. I count myself as a very liberal progressive. I have always voted Democratic, as there usually isn't much of a choice. Nonetheless, I've always given money in the past, and I'm NOT willing to do that this year. I feel like Obama doesn't care about either his base or his independent voters, and it appears that he is simply trying to appease right-wing voters who despise him anyway and will never vote for him. He is ignoring his base AND his indpendent voters at his peril. It's his choice.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #252
291. I won't support someone
simply because they wear a D on their chest.
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #252
535. Wow, that was deep.
Do you really think that the votes needed to keep congress and win another term in 2012 can be found in a group that agrees with the POTUS and the Party 100%? That's not only unrealistic, but downright creepy. You do know that you can be a Democrat and not agree with the direction that the Party is headed, right?
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #175
324. So Moveon didn't support Obama even during the PRIMARIES?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
180. Alternate headline: White House planning new push to the right. nt
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
181. Yep, this is the way to garner support from the left:
“I hear these people saying he’s like George Bush. Those people ought to be drug tested,” Gibbs said. “I mean, it’s crazy.”

:eyes:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #181
188. "They wouldn't be satisfied if Kucinich was President" -- what is that?
Dennis envy?

lol

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #188
200. Must be.........
:D
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #188
285.  I think he was rewording an old saying, "You would bitch of you were hung with a new rope."
But I think he unwittingly revealed some pretenses...
What if we elected someone who actually fought to bring about change.
Someone who was on the side of the working class.
Someone who would prosecute war criminals, corporate criminals and banking criminals et al,
as apposed to giving criminals cabinet positions.

Etc, Etc. Etc.

In other words Americans would never be satisfied even if we were allowed to elect a President and Congress who were willing to do the right things.

I guess it somehow justifies screwing the ungrateful working class over for their cognizant stupidity...

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #285
354. It's a justification, projected.
"I would be a better person if not for XY&Z".

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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #188
696. How did Kucinich do the last time he ran for president?
Oh, right. **snicker**
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
189. The reason so many liberals here feel frusterated...
is that they can see on the conservative side that the hard right, the hardcore conservatives, have a lot more sway over the Republican Party than liberals do over the Democratic Party. You never (or very rarely) hear Republicans badmouth conservatives without paying a high high price. But liberals are badmouthed by everyone, including Democrats, and it definitely makes it seem like it is the world that is against us, a small minority.

Liberals are not as important to the Democratic coalition as conservates are to the Republican one. That is just the facts. The only way to change that is to increase the number of liberals among Democrats. But it is good to note that even conservatives, when they had Bush et al in power, didn't get most of what they wanted. In fact, Bush wasn't a true conservative according to them. A lot of criticism came from the right about not being to the right enough.

I suppose the lesson is that, no matter how ideologically pure you may think a president that you nominate is, when they get into power they will go to the center somewhat, especially in the first term. That is because of the political system we have set up.

While there are some things that Obama had full control of in order to keep his promises, for most he didn't. You can blame the Congress for a lot of the most egrigious broken promises, or maybe just our broken political system with legalized bribery. Not to mention needing 60 votes in the Senate to pass anything.
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
193. We don't believe in the 'change' anymore
Bottom line is the president has failed to fight for a progressive agenda and to deliver on the 'changes' he promised.

I would be happier if they did hold to a position, fought for it and perhaps even lost. Then at least the difference between the repugs and dems would be clear and then it would be worth supporting the dems. Now they are just corp sell outs, like the repubs, but better because they are merely corrupt instead of corrupt and CRAZY.

If they are finally getting the message that we are fed up, then good. The proper response is to re-assess your agenda and methods. The repug response is to demonize your opponents when you have no real suitable answer. They grow more like them everyday.

We did not work for a party that moves ever more to the right with nary a whimper because they are afraid of their own shadow and repugs saying 'boo'.

If you want our support, then support us.

We didn't leave you. You left us.



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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #193
231. Amen nt.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #193
282. Yep, he supported the patriot act instead of dismounting it.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 12:54 PM by superconnected
He added MORE surveillance on citizens. He said he'd get us out out of Iraq, we're still there and he may put us in more wars - Iran is looking like it could happen. Right now the gov is toting the internet kill switch so parts of the country can be magically cut off from the internet - that should be highly illegal in "free speech America". He has not outlawed torture or putting people in US prisons on foreign soil with no trials.

Since he is bush v2.0 - forwarding the corporate big brother agenda, he's got to go.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
194. If only Boehner had the courage to tell this to the Teabaggers....
My, my...I've never seen more low-count posters bitching about the pony they didn't get than this thread....

The "professional left" in my state is currently helping a reactionary teabagger who hates gay people get elected to the Senate.

Why? Because the Democratic candidate is a 'corporatist'. I think it's because the responsibilities of governance are too difficult for some to handle--they realize they get more from the gravy train as the loyal opposition.
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man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
211. “They will be satisfied when we have Canadian healthcare and we’ve eliminated the Pentagon. ..."
I'd settle for Canadian healthcare. Do that, and I'm willing to leave the Pentagon in place - at least for now. :evilgrin:
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #211
506. I'd be perfectly happy if we had Canadian health care and eliminated the pentagon, and
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 05:57 PM by superconnected
I've never taken drugs.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
212. oh no! he`s retracted his statement!...well he..CLARIFIED!
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SILVER__FOX52 Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
213. That Prick, Gibbs................
just cut us loose. He needs to go.
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
218. I was looking for just a donkey... but hey, anyone want to start the Pony Party?
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
220. WH/DLC - dropping turds of 'piss off' to their voter base
as usual, they alienate those that actually vote for them.