Whales closer to us than thought, say scientists

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Physorg.com

Whales closer to us than thought, say scientists
June 20, 2010 by Marlowe Hood

http://cdn.physorg.com.nyud.net:8090/newman/gfx/news/agreywhaleca.jpg

File photo of a grey whale calf emerging
from the water at the San Ignacio
Lagoon, Baja California Sur state, Mexico.
As the future of whales once more comes
under global debate, some scientists say
the marine mammals are not only smarter
than thought but also share several
attributes once claimed as exclusively
human.


As the future of whales once more comes under global debate, some scientists say the marine mammals are not only smarter than thought but also share several attributes once claimed as exclusively human.

Self-awareness, suffering and a social culture along with high mental abilities are a hallmark of cetaceans, an order grouping more than 80 whales, dolphins and porpoises, say marine biologists.

If so, the notion that whales are intelligent and sentient beings threatens to demolish, like an explosive harpoon, the assumption that they are simply an animal commodity to be harvested from the sea.

That belief lies at the heart of talks unfolding at the International Whaling Commission (IWC), meeting from Monday to Friday in Agadir, Morocco.




Read more: http://www.physorg.com/news196222405.html

[dipsydoodle]

1. They apparently went back to the sea from the land

possibly the only mammals to do so but I don't think anyone knows why that happened.

[left is right]

5. It’s little known and seldom noted but the whales has a time machine

and they visited the 21st century and so how badly people were going to fu the world.

[intheflow]

25. If that was true,

apparently the sperm whales in the Gulf didn't get the memo. :(

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

46. I thought those were dolphins...

...as detailed by Douglas Adams. :shrug:

[sce56]

47. Aye Cap't there be whales here.

[happygoluckytoyou]

69. The whales returned to the sea during the 40 day flood

[laconicsax]

19. It's called natural selection. n/t

[AlbertCat]

24. They apparently went back to the sea from the land

There is a huge amount of fossil records for the evolution of whales. Their course in evolution is well documented.

The reason it happened is natural selection... filling an open niche.


Here's a video.....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/03/4/l_034_05.html

[asdjrocky]

41. Cool video, thanks for the link. nt

[Enthusiast]

43. Yes, according to genetic studies

whales are most closely related to the land mammal hippopotamus. Kind of makes sense to a degree in that hippos are partially aquatic to start with.

[Cetacea]

94. Though their brains are most closely related to humans.

Even more so than the apes. And this is why we need to elevate dolphins and whales to the status of "non-human persons", though I prefer "humans of the sea".

[Bette Noir]

30. The same is true of all marine mammals. Seals, otters, polar bears.

you go where the food is.

[DGG]

67. Manatees and dugongs are other fully aquatic mammals

in addition to dolphins, themselves closely related to whales. I once saw a sick manatee lying on the bottom and became concerned that it was not surfacing for a breath. After awhile another manatee swimming around in the same vicinity started taking notice as well and eventually swam down to his colleague and nudged and prodded until the sick one finally went up to the surface and did some breathing. As with cetaceans, this sort of behavior suggests self-awareness and reasonably sophisticated cognition (if not necessarily human-like, at least surpassing that of, say, Glenn Beck).

[Ignis]

88. Here are two drawings of dolphins' land-based ancestors:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6996666&mesg_id=7008857

[amyrose2712]

2. Good morning Miss JudiLynn. Thank you for posting.Very interesting.

[Judi Lynn]

7. Good morning, amyrose2712. Good to "see you" today. Thank you. n/t

[old mark]

3. Well, we ate the Neandertahals, too, evidently.....No wonder the whales

went back to the sea...


mark

[unblock]

66. no, the neanderthals survived...

... and registered republican.

[Crunchy Frog]

79. Can we just eat the Republicans?

[old mark]

83. Dude! Makes my stomach turn just thinking about it.....

and I eat hot dogs!!


mark

[No Elephants]

86. Why you dissing Neanderthals?

[LARED]

4. There is a slight resemblance to my Uncle Frank

But Frank hated the ocean.

[DFW]

6. I try to go on a whale watch every year

On Cape Cod, it isn't very difficult, but it's fascinating every time, mo matter how often I go.

You definitely get the impression that it is not 100% clear just who is watching whom.

[Judi Lynn]

8. Next time, you may be whale watching for thousands of DU'ers who are landlocked!

It would be an unforgettable experience, no doubt about it.

http://myfun.com.au.nyud.net:8090/images/galleries/seaworld/schools/projectinfo/whales.jpg

[DFW]

15. It is! Here's a pic from 2 years ago

Whales adapt to their local environment to feed.

The whales that come down from the Arctic to feed on the fish-rich Stellwangen bank east of Boston have a trick
of slapping the surface with their tails. This creates a huge column of bubbles which attract sand eels, small
silvery fish a few inches long which are prevalent there. They dive deep under the column of bubbles and come
up under it, trapping the groups of sand eels that get attracted to it. Birds flock to whales when they feed
in this manner as there is always a lot of of spillage that the whales don't trap in their mouths. The whales
close their huge mouths and push the water out through their baleen with their tongues, leaving the fish trapped
inside, which they then swallow. It is an awesome sight to see. If you are VERY fast with your camera, you can get
a quick shot of a whale with its mouth open at the surface. Here is one I took in 2008:

[Judi Lynn]

16. That photo is spectacular. It contains so much, so wonderfully.

It leaves a real "you are there" feeling for the observer. Absolutely breathtaking.

Those birds don't seem to have any fear whatsoever of their enormous friends.

Thanks for sharing this wonderful photo.

[DFW]

26. This is one of nature's rituals that has been going on for untold eons

The whales and the birds know exactly what they are doing, although one of the naturalists on the boat told
us that on rare occasions, they see a clumsy bird get caught in a whale's closing mouth (avian Darwin award
recipients?).

Here is another shot from a cloudy day, about 11 years ago:

[hedgehog]

53. I wonder if that whale behaved the same way i do when i

accidentally swallow a bug while walking the dogs.

[DFW]

65. That depends

Do you spout a column of seawater mist 10 feet into the air in disgust and then dive to a depth
of 20 or 30 feet and stay there for ten minutes?? If so, then, yes, the behavior is identical.

Well, up to a point, anyway. The whale usually won't walk the dogs home afterward..........

[Scuba]

51. I took the family there...

...on the New England Aquarium tour. Amazing. Incredible. Jaw dropping. The whales were interacting with us, showing off, splashing us. Highly recommended.

[donquijoterocket]

60. Great photo

I've heard that some whale species as well as some porpoises will surround a school of fish with bubbles- a technique called bubble netting as a means to concentrate the school for easier hunting.I've long suspected that D. Adams had it right for Hitchhikers Guide.Now if we could only get their language translated,but then again we might not want to hear what they'd have to say to us.

[Mojorabbit]

71. Breathtaking. nt

[bertman]

81. While fishing in a calm sea on a beautiful February day we had a whale

come up through a ball of silversides and breach not thirty feet behind our boat, headed directly for us. The three of us in the boat just stood in awe and silence as we watched that whale and its partner as they dived and surfaced with birds wheeling around them in the crystal blue-green Atlantic less than two miles off the shoreline.

That was what I call a religious experience.

The three of us, all avid fishermen who love being on the water together felt as if we had been honored to be in the presence of such beautiful creatures.

[corpseratemedia]

9. +100

recc. to anybody who is interested in these very intelligent animals!

[lostnfound]

10. I don't agree that smartness means we shouldn't harm them

The fact that rhey feel pain is enough for me... I don't think that a person who isn't 'smart' has less life-value than one who is. So-called smart people have done as much to mess up our world as 'not-smart' people.

[Vattel]

14. +1000

[Rozlee]

18. That goes for the porcine as well.

It's horrible to think that these intelligent creatures are often kept for their entire lives in small cages in corporate hog farms, being fed and hosed down until the date of slaughter. They're more intelligent than dogs, yet, they're treated so horrendously. My own species sickens me.

[truth2power]

21. My species sickens me, too. In so many ways...When I tell people

that pigs are as smart as (or smarter than) dogs, they look at me like I've lost my mind.

And whales, I do believe, are related to cows. Will have to look that up. There was someone here, or somewhere, who said a couple of days ago that he would pull up next to a cattle truck at a stop light and could hear the cows crying.

So many people would (COULD) not understand this. I'm encouraged that you are here, Rozlee. :)

[pundaint]

27. Not all pigs are equally smart...

[truth2power]

35. I don't understand your point...

Not all people are equally smart. Not all dogs are equally smart, etc. etc. :shrug:

[pundaint]

38. and...not all people are equally smart either - hence their

actions in ways you can't understand.

[glitch]

40. That was me.

My species sickens me too, but not you two. Okay, and a few others. :hi:

[DFW]

45. "I don't agree that smartness means we shouldn't harm them" well......

If you're referring to Roger Ailes or Rupert Murdoch, I can understand the sentiment........

[Duval]

49. Amen!

[tblue]

70. Amen!!! +100

[xchrom]

11. recommend

[TheEuclideanOne]

12. If you look at the weight of an average american

you will have no problem seeing how whales and humans are closer than ever. :)

[saigon68]

13. A certain country thinks they are "Tasty"

[Peace Patriot]

17. All are evolving. nt

[Doremus]

20. This news comes from Japan, no? Gleaned from all their studying and research?

Hell no it doesn't. The barbarians are only interested in murdering their "research subjects" for the blood money.

The Japanese government and those who support them are wrong. Japanese citizens need to rebel as the government commits these atrocities in their name.

[Duppers]

22. Bravo!

They're heartless.

[Raster]

29. The Japanese harvesting facilities are like locusts of the sea--whales, tuna--does not matter.

[Enthusiast]

44. Well it won't be too long

before the Blue Fin Tuna is absent from the Japanese fish market. Sad, really when a few short years moratorium on Blue Fin harvest could restore the population. Like that will happen while they are so valuable at the sushi bar.

[Raster]

68. Excellent point. A moratorium would aid the survival of the species considerably.

Instead fishing vessels--and not just Japanese fish vessels--are hurrying to catch as many Blue Fin as possible before they are all gone. I've heard some of the large Japanese corporations are buying the best quality Blue Fin and freezing it for the time there will be no Blue Fin available.

[wordpix]

73. good point and I say, BOYCOTT JAPANESE PRODUCTS--Honda, Toyota, Sanyo, Sony

Bring them to their knees and then on to Norway and Iceland. :grr:

[ZombieHorde]

78. Should we boycott the US as well? nt

[ZombieHorde]

77. Japan is not the only whaling country. The US is a whaling country.

So is Iceland, Norway, Russia, and a few other countries.

[LTX]

87. U.S. Whaling:

In the United States, the only legal whaling is carried on by indigenous Alaskan communities, who take about 50 bowhead whales annually from a population of about 10,500.

[Cetacea]

90. No it isn't.

[ZombieHorde]

91. Don't the lives of the whales killed by the US count? nt

[Cetacea]

92. Nope.

[Cetacea]

96. Yes, of course. But you can't compare US to a country that takes thousands

on top of the especially brutal form of genocide afflicted on some twenty thousand dolphins each year.

[Gman]

23. I am so glad this notion is starting to take hold

[and-justice-for-all]

28. So killing Whales and the like is MURDER...nt

[truth2power]

36. I think you've answered your own question with your sig graph,

i.e., if we stop caring...

What I do think killing whales is, is an abomination and a sin. More like going from the legal to the spiritual, I suppose.

[Odin2005]

31. K&R.

[midnight]

32. It breaks my heart that they have to be so careful to be around us.

[I Have A Dream]

33. Mine too, midnight.

Mine too...

:cry:

[defendandprotect]

34. K&R -- thank you --

I'm of the opinion that all animals on the planet are our brothers and sisters --

but I do notice that the more we "humanize" an animal, the more sympathetic people

get about it!

Our biggest problem on this planet is the violence of the few among us --

and someday we have to figure out how to stop them!

[asdjrocky]

37. Great article.

I learned a new word, cetacean, never heard it used before, or read it.

It pains me to think of the pain we as a species can inflict on another species.

[bvar22]

39. If I can't stop eating our Homemade Strawberry Ice Cream.....

...I'm going to be really close to a whale.

[Dappleganger]

42. Whales clearly need our protection....

they are a treasure beyond compare!

[Ian David]

48. We should figure out a way to arm them. n/t

[Duval]

50. And return to the ocean to help them fight! :) n/t

[Ian David]

58. If whales exploded when hauled onboard a ship, people would think twice. n/t

[provis99]

52. Human beings are perfectly willing to slaughter and eat each other.

I think discovering that whales are just as smart as humans won't save them.

[Crunchy Frog]

54. Humans are treated as simply a comodity. Why should whales be any different?

[Winston Wolf]

61. Now That's Using Sound Logic.

So, because humans are treated as a means, it makes it acceptable to treat other creatures as a means?

Is that your reasoning? I hope not, because that's some bad logic.

Just because immoral things occur commonplace within our species and respective cultures does not give said actions a pass on morality. If something is immoral, it is immoral regardless of the frequency it occurs.

Murder and rape happen frequently too, so should they get a free pass as well?

[Crunchy Frog]

76. Did I say I think it's moral?

:shrug:

[Winston Wolf]

82. My apologies.

The way your message was phrased led me to believe that you were implying that because humans treat each other like as a means it follows that it is permissible to treat other like organisms as a means.

I see now that it was more of a "If humans can't even treat those within their own species with respect and dignity, how can one expect them to extend such niceties to other species?"

Sorry for my snarky response. I have a real soft spot for whales in particular, so I tend to be somewhat defensive concerning that subject, and especially blunt and a bit rude concerning those who have no problem with whaling in general.

[MisterP]

55. this of course brings up the question of WHY "Self-awareness, suffering and a social culture"

were de facto denied to whales--and it was not simply due to some neutral, objective lack of evidence

anthropocentrism--the focusing solely on humans to the exclusion of things such as other animals, "Nature," and even God--has been strong in human culture, and especially European culture, including the mainstream of scientific thinking. From the Cicero-derived "man as divine" idea of Ficino and Pico della Mirandola to Enlightened "divine Reason" as the rationale for human (white male) rights, as well as the practicalities of farming, vivisection, and student dissection created a veritable edifice of cavalierness toward non-speaking creatures.

Rod Preece wrote http://www.jstor.org/stable/3654233, though you'll need a subscription or proxy.

"developmentalism"--however defined from the Technocrats to Nehru, Suharto, and Nkrumah--saw the nonhuman world as food and fuel for the human

[earcandle]

56. Please keep up the work on whales and their quality of life issues. And humans, too!

[fishbulb703]

57. My dog is self-aware, suffers (when I leave him home), and has highly developed social intelligence.

Just because we as humans have the ability to rationalize our actions does not make us any more of a thinking, feeling animal than other high level mammals, maybe other lifeforms too (e.g. octopuses). It just allows us to be unnecessarily cruel.

[wordpix]

74. +1 and my cat is aware, too. Certainly knows the difference between cat food & a home-cooked meal

Also loves to snuggle and be petted, shuns the cold, understands danger and feels jealousy (did not like it when I brought home cat #2 at first).

[Uncle Joe]

59. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Judi Lynn.:thumbsup:

[Winston Wolf]

62. Hey Humans! You Want Intelligent Life? Look Around You.

While man scans the cosmos for random static and noise from space in hopes of finding intelligent life to communicate with, we somehow completely overlook the intelligence found in the species on our own planet.

Maybe if we spent more time and emphasis in our culture and research programs on deciphering the languages of whales, dogs, and the like, we might know a little bit more about ourselves, and maybe we wouldn’t treat the world like it was a giant shitter for us to fuck around in.

Personally, I lay some of the blame on Descartes, and his bullshit nonsense about how animals are essentially souless machines. That man has done more to fuck with human reasoning and behavior than most care to admit.

[flvegan]

63. And Japan, Norway and Iceland will continue to kill them. IWC rules or not.

Sink the whaling ships in harbor. That's how you protect the whales.

[BrklynLiberal]

64. So, does this finding have any effect on those who would go out and slaughter them???????

[Nihil]

84. No.

> So, does this finding have any effect on those who would go out
> and slaughter them???????

If it would have any effect, they would not be doing that "job" anyway.

I would call them "subhuman" except for the fact that "human" is
hardly a compliment.

:grr:

[BrklynLiberal]

85. Gotta agree.

I have a friend who theorized about twenty years ago about the possiblity of two species within the human race...the longer I live,
the more I think he was right.

[Bucky]

72. If they're so smart, how come they put up with all our shit?

And also, if they're all so smart, how come they don't have cars and factories
and systems of religious dogma and allied camps of heavily armed mercenaries?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

75. They traded their opposable thumbs for intelligence.

I'm convinced they're smarter than humans.

[marasinghe]

80. excellent reasoning.

if i was a whale, i'd be diving down to the depths of the mariana trench too - to get the hell away from any scientific theory that classifies me anywhere close on the phylum with that primitively savage 21st century human thing.

thanks too - Judy Lynn, for your posts.

[Cetacea]

89. Superior impulse control, no doubt.

It's well known that dolphins and whales tolerate human acts of brutishness. A larger cerebral cortex is what separates us from the apes...

[liberalla]

93. The report that Japan has been bribing small countries with

cash and prostitutes to win their votes on whaling --- surely that will hurt the campaign to lift the moratorium on whaling, won't it?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7149091.ece

They need to fully investigate this before allowing the moratorium to be lifted! How can they not? They should postpone the vote for another year at least.

[Zorra]

95. Whales have the largest brains of any known life form on the planet. n/t

[Cetacea]

97. Bigger IS better.