Whitman offended by comments in Calif. gov's race

[alp227]

Source: Associated Press

SACRAMENTO, Calif.—California GOP gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman on Thursday criticized remarks attributed to rival Jerry Brown that made a comparison between her campaign and a Nazi propagandist.

The comments attributed to Brown were posted Wednesday in a blog by a reporter for KCBS radio in San Francisco. In his blog, which was on the station's website, reporter Doug Sovern says he was riding his bike in the Oakland hills when he bumped into the Democratic gubernatorial candidate, who was jogging.

KCBS radio editor Debra Ingerson told The Associated Press on Thursday that the conversation was not recorded.

Sovern said Brown was concerned about Whitman's ability to spend an almost unlimited amount of money in the governor's race. Whitman, the billionaire former eBay chief executive, spent at least $81 million in the primary, all but $10 million of it from her personal fortune.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15274276

---

Original report from the San Jose Mercury News:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_15273597

Yikes. Looks like the independent voters are quickly drifting away from Brown. The last thing we need is to have yet another big-spending wealthy Republican in office who will screw over the majority of Californians and sink the state deeper as if the current budget struggle is bad enough.

[Wapsie B]

1. Note to Whitman: The age of victimization is over. Suck it up lambchop.

[pinboy3niner]

5. LOL!

"Suck it up lambchop.":rofl:

I love it! We ought to use it whenever ANY RW pol whines and wallows in victimhood.

[BootinUp]

2. Where do you get the part about independent voters?

I don't see anything about that in your links...

[villager]

3. Where do either of these articles suggest independents are drifting away from Brown?

n/t

[alp227]

6. My theory was that independent voters will be offended by Brown

so they'll decide not to vote for Brown just because some journalist recorded Brown making a Nazi analogy, a big no-no in polite discourse.

[Tempest]

8. Your theory needs a lot of work

Brown pointed out that Whitman was using propaganda to influence voters the same way Goebbels did to the German people.

Independents will review what is coming out of Whitman's campaign and see that Brown was right.

[maxsolomon]

11. given that "independent" is often code for "low-information apathetic mouth-breather"

i wouldn't hold my breath. this state elected conan the barbarian.

[Tempest]

25. Code word by who?

The description you attribute to Independents is way fucking off base.

[frylock]

31. i'm an independant..

or decline to state, if you will. forgive me if i feel that neither party supports my best interests.

[Merlot]

38. Agreed. Independents will look at the campaign, not this event.

Also, the "remark" was NOT recorded.

[JDPriestly]

13. I watched an independent Californian requesting his ballot in Tuesday's election.

The poll-worker offered him a choice of primary ballot: Democratic or Republican. And he picked Democratic. The big races were in the Republican primary. His selection was an indication of which party he currently identifies with. That's just one voter, but there are other indications that Californians are fed up with Republicans.

Californians resoundingly rejected the clearly corporate propositions 16 and 17. Those fell although the corporations spent unbelievable amounts of money pushing them on the voters. I received pro-Prop. 16 mailers nearly every week for weeks prior to Tuesday's election.

Californians are very disappointed in Schwarzenegger. He promised to cut the fat out of government and balance the budget. He promised and promised, but apparently there was no fat to cut or at least not enough to permit him to balance the budget and still improve education and health care.

It costs far more now to go to a state university or college than it did when Schwarzenegger took over, and that's allowing for changes in the purchasing power of our money. Yet staff and faculty at those same universities and colleges have, in general, taken pay cuts.

California is in bad shape after years and years of Republican governors. Those who identify as Republicans may have preferred Whitman, but those who identify as independents, no matter what they tell pollsters, when it comes to voting, are likely to go with Jerry Brown because he is closer to the economic reality that most of us here in California live.

I think that Schwarzenegger was one millionaire too many in the governor's mansion. We pretty much have had it with Republicans out here in California.

[No Elephants]

22. The assumption that indies all lean right is a joke. I was registered indie unil 2004, as was my

husband. (He still is.) Both of us voted Democratic all our voting lives and would sever our own arms before pulling the lever for a Republican.

[Tempest]

24. I'm a registered Independent in California

I've voted for Republicans before but mostly stick to Democrats and other Independent candidates.

The thought that Independents are going to flock to Whitman or Carly is nonsense.

[BootinUp]

29. "California is in bad shape after years and years of Republican governors"

Gee not unlike the country at large.

I'm tellin ya, the pendulum is going to swing back, its almost as sure as the physical law of gravity.

[Ignis]

40. I like your analysis.

Frankly, I think the better GOTV effort is likely to win this one. Thankfully, the ball's in our court on that tactic, and I think Jerry Brown will do a hell of a job to excite the base.

But the one thing we cannot afford is low turnout. :hurts:

Please, please, please, let us not hand this election to Whitman.

[No Elephants]

19. And the language you chose to express your theory was

"Looks like the independent voters are quickly drifting away from Brown"?

Sounds more like something you knew was actually happening than something you were imagining might happen in the future.

As for your theory, anyone who turns to te Rehugs for polite discourse nowadays needs a helmet.

And nothing is wrong with comparing an unlimited, lying propaganda machine to Goebbels' propaganda machine, the archetype of massive, lying propaganda machines. Meg tried to make it about the Holocaust, which is a lie and kind of proves Brown's point.

P.S. Godwin's law is not really a law. It's RW bullshit in an attempt to stave off comparisons like this one. If Brown exaggerated or lied or made an invalid comparison, attack the statement on that basis.

Such an attack, while wrong, would at least have some intellectual content.

[Divine Discontent]

28. aside from the fact that CA elected The Terminator & Conan, and could elect Ebay governor, I don't

see how this unrecorded event could do a whole lot against Brown. In fact, I think harsh words are what is needed against a corporate candidate - very harsh words - Californians need to be reminded that corporations are not for their best interests, and putting a highly connected former CEO of eBay in power is a HORRIBLE travesty for the people.

I hope a hundred million will be spent by groups to defeat her hundred million I'm sure she's willing to bank roll for this... she's banking on the fact having her name constantly in your face will make a majority vote for her - sadly, that's possible.

C'mon Cali - no more GOP corporate bullshit!

[David__77]

4. Brown will win comfortably.

If the vote were only in Orange County, I'd be worried, but LA and the Bay Area will carry the day...

[hlthe2b]

16. I surely hope you are right.. you've eased my mind a bit, though..

I just want us to nip this mega-billionaire in office trend and California sorely needs Brown's experience and steady hand.

[Dawson Leery]

7. Only the corporate tea parties of Bakersfield will find this offensive.

[Tempest]

9. Hey!

Not all of us in Bakersfield are tea baggers. LOL

But you're right, the local blogosphere is burning up about this now.

[kevinbgoode]

10. If Whitman can spend $81 million to get herself elected in a primary

I'll be waiting for her to tell California how much of her fortune she is willing to spend to help California if she becomes governor. Surely a candidate who is willing to shell out so much from her personal funds to gain power for herself would be more than willing to shell out even more as a donation for state services, right?

[Frances]

12. Excellent point

Whitman is all about keeping Whitman filthy rich without paying her fair share of taxes IMO

[Javaman]

14. Still amazes me how this woman, who as head of HP spied on her employees

still got this far.

weird times.

[villager]

15. That'd be Fiorina - Senate Candidate -- who did that at HP. Whitman is eBay

...though I'd be curious to hear about her practices toward employees, there...

[Javaman]

17. ahhh, thanks for the correction. nt

[liberation]

27. Let's see, she is the visionary that bought Skype for 4 billion and sold it for less than 2.

Apparently "buy low sell high" is too complex for these business moguls to manage, but who needs to be right when you can just coast into a golden parachute regardless of performance?

She got a lucky break with Paypal, but right after she left Ebay, the stock went for less than 1/4 of its dotcom boom high.

This is why these idiots are so dangerous because they are too sociopathic to understand that the success is owed to nothing but a lucky break. While governing has little to do about being in the correct place at the right time, but on doing the correct thing regardless of being at the wrong place and time. Business people should not run government, if they are so adamant about government not running business.

[roody]

18. That is called hearsay.

[grandel]

20. Heresay

Let's see: A reporter was biking when he says he bumped into Jerry Brown who out of the blue just conveniently happened to make a comment that Whitman is a Nazi propogandist. Oh, yes, and there were no witnesses and the conversation was not recorded. I wonder how much chump change billionaire Whitman had to pay for that statement.

[No Elephants]

23. I'm for Brown all the way, but his campaign never denied he said it.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with Brown's statement, anyway. Meg's claim, however, is a lie. (Pls. see Reply 19)

[GreenTea]

21. Hey Whitman, the truth always hurts people like yourself - Arrogant, ignorant elitist....

[liberation]

26. Is this the same Meg Whitman who uses the term "liberal" as an undisputed insult?

Go pound sand idiot, or maybe I should say "go auction sand"

[Dems to Win]

30. I groaned when I saw that comment by Jerry Brown. Bzzzz. Godwin's Law! Fail!

Why give Whitman ammunition?

[No Elephants]

69. Godwin's law (which was a joke, NOT a law) applies to online, not to jogging convo.

"The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses.

<snip>

The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering genocide, propaganda, early 20th century eugenics (racial superiority) or other mainstays of Nazi Germany, nor, more debatably, to discussion of other totalitarian regimes, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances is appropriate. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, since this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.

However, Godwin's law itself can be abused, as a distraction, diversion or even censorship, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons.<7>"



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law



Trying to use Godwin's joke "law" whenever Nazis are mentioned, including during actual political speech, to claim such speech is per se inappropriate, even if the comparison is valid, is (fill in the blank).

And please see Replies 19 and 48.

[2Design]

32. whitman is a disaster to the real people n/t

[stranger81]

33. If you can't take the heat, Meg, there's the door to the kitchen. [n/t]

[mitchum]

34. Breaking: Ghost of Goebbels offended by comparison to Meg Whitman

[EFerrari]

35. LOL

[Ignis]

41. "I...have...come...from the grave...to bring you..."

This patent infringement suit!

[No Elephants]

70. LOL

[rug]

36. She's right. She's more like Gustav Krupp than Joseph Goebbels.

[No Elephants]

71. LOL

[Merlot]

37. I'm offended that she bought the nomination with $71 million of her money

Without all that money, she would not have stood a chance.

[miyazaki]

39. Was she the one who raised Ebay user fees after the company

posted nearly three quarters of a billion in profit? Lmao.

[onehandle]

42. Jerry Brown Compares Meg Whitman To A NAZI: 'Goebbels Invented This Kind Of Propaganda'

Source: Huffington Post

Taking a page out of the playbook normally reserved for Glenn Beck, Jerry Brown, the Democratic nominee for California Governor (and a former governor himself), recently compared his opponent, former eBay CEO Meg Whitman, to a Nazi. And not just any Nazi -- chief Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels.

The comments came during a conversation between San Francisco KCBS radio reporter Doug Sovern and Brown after the two bumped into each other on a bike trail in Oakland.

Brown boasted about his legendary frugality. "I've only spent $200,000 so far. I have 20 million in the bank. I'm saving up for her." It's true -- his stay-on-the-sidelines, bare-bones primary run cost him almost nothing, at least in California political terms. But he also fretted about the impact of all those eBay dollars in Whitman's very deep pockets. "You know, by the time she's done with me, two months from now, I'll be a child-molesting..." He let the line trail off. "She'll have people believing whatever she wants about me.

"It's like Goebbels," referring to Hitler's notorious minister of propaganda. "Goebbels invented this kind of propaganda. He took control of the whole world. She wants to be president. That's her ambition, the first woman president. That's what this is all about."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/11/jerry-brown-meg-whitman-n_n_608881.html

---

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry... You got this. Don't screw it up.

Fox News Headline:
Whitman Blasts Brown for Nazi Comments in California Governor's Race

SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- California GOP gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman on Thursday criticized remarks attributed to rival Jerry Brown that made a comparison between her campaign and a Nazi propagandist.

The comments attributed to Brown were posted Wednesday in a blog by a reporter for KCBS radio in San Francisco. In his blog, which was on the station's website, reporter Doug Sovern says he was riding his bike in the Oakland hills when he bumped into the Democratic gubernatorial candidate, who was jogging. KCBS radio editor Debra Ingerson told The Associated Press on Thursday that the conversation was not recorded.

Sovern said Brown was concerned about Whitman's ability to spend an almost unlimited amount of money in the governor's race. Whitman, the billionaire former eBay chief executive, spent at least $81 million in the primary, all but $10 million of it from her personal fortune.

snip...

The blog posting said the conversation took place before Tuesday's primary, but didn't specify when.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/11/whitman-blasts-brown-nazi-comments-california-governors-race/

[iamjoy]

43. Sigh

When will people get that casual or inaccurate Nazi comparisons cause the real meaning of what those monsters did to be lost? I admit, I used to fall into that trap too and then I realized that false comparisons were akin to Holocaust denial. OK, I know that's hyperbole too. But yes, when we make that comparison too easily, we lose sight of the reality of what happened.

[liberation]

48. Making arbitrary things off limits is a traditional way of framing debate

In a very disingenuous way.

We're adult here, And if Meg Whitman wants to run ads dehumanizing people and making up all sorts of lies, that is her prerogative. But then she is using tactics right from Goebbels playbook: repeat a lie often enough and it becomes truth. Pointing that out does in no way shape or form diminish the horror of the nazi regime and WWII. If you think it does, you're taking the concept of red herring to its limits.

I know the GOP will act all flabbergasted, but no one should give a shit what the actual heirs of the fascist ethos feel about stuff that hits too close to their home. Of course they will freak out, the question is: we should not play their games. Do not allow them to frame the debate, never, ever.


Remember, all of the sudden when Arnold was running for governor, all talk of his dad's nazi past were supposed to be off limits. Fuck that. Scions of nazis should not be given the same latitude than normal hard working decent people whose parents weren't prancing around with their finest goose stepping marches.

[No Elephants]

73. that's what I've been trying to say. You said it much better.

[jobycom]

50. That's Holocaust Denial.

Denying the lessons of the Holocaust, denying that it could never happen again, denying that despite what we know we should never make the comparison when we first start to see it, are all ways to make it easier to happen the next time. That's the real Holocaust Denial. Some claim the Holocaust didn't happen, some claim it was exagerated, but some claim it was such a unique event brought on by unparalleled monsters that we can pretty much relegate it to history and not watch for the warning signs, knowing it will probably never happen again. That last is the worst kind.

[kestrel91316]

55. [phone]

[iamjoy]

67. Denial

Is ignoring what is happening in Darfur. It is happening again and the "greatest nation in the world" is powerless to stop it.

[No Elephants]

74. Ignoring what is happening in Darfur is heartless, not denial.

Unless you claim it isn't happening. I know no one who does that.

[Cartoonist]

51. It's not about the Holocaust

Besides, WWII is not the copyright solely of the Jews. Communists, socialists, homosexuals, Gypsies, Slavs, etc.,all felt the murderous hand of the Nazis. The comparison is made to the tactics and hatred of the right. It is a legitimate comparison and needs to be made so that these people do not come into power and have the opportunity to escalate their hatred into crimes against humanity. Meg's recent ad against the immigrants was frightening in its complete lack of compassion for an entire race of people. Her previous ads spewed the same hatred about the poor. As a resident of this state, I feel she needs to be shown as the vile monster she is, lest we actually put her in office to follow the path of Ronald Reagan.

[Octafish]

60. True. Only NAZIs would lie their nation into illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars.

And only NAZIs would game the economy to benefit their cronies...

[No Elephants]

72. Good thing Brown did nothing of the kind then.. He talking well- financed propaganda

machines, period,

While jogging, ffs.

And even though the remark was not intended for public consumption, it was not a bizarre comparison.

[salvorhardin]

44. And in other news tonight...

Former Governor Jerry Brown admits to being a child molester. Film at 11!

[No Elephants]

75. LOL, but more like "No film--or audio--at 11....or ever."

[EFerrari]

45. He's right of course. Kick GOP @ss, Jerry.

[The Magistrate]

46. Worse Markers Have Been Tossed Down, Sir

This may prove useful down the road....

[CoffeeCat]

47. I bet Brown assumed that his comments...

...were off the record too. The reporter bumped into Brown while bike riding. I doubt
this was an official interview and I doubt Brown expected that his comments would be
blared across the globe.

It's too bad. I'm sure Whitman, and every other politician in the world, has said
things about their opponent that are much, much worse.

The difference is, that this reporter most likely saw an opportunity to squeal and
make a name for himself.

[TheCowsCameHome]

49. Oh, what a surprise - Under a Fox banner. Imagine that.

Whoda thunk..............

[Vattel]

52. The irony is beautiful.

Brown is worried that propaganda techniques, including some invented by Goebbels, will be used by Whitman against him. He didn't call her a Nazi, of course. Whitman's response is to suggest that he called her a Nazi. That sort of distortion is exactly what Brown is worried about!

[No Elephants]

76. Worse. She tried to make it about the Holocaust (genocide), rather than about propaganda machines.

She's the one using the Holocaust inappropriately and gratuitously (and lyig), not Brown.

[msongs]

53. the comparison is to the propaganda/ads - and good for jerry who is NOT being an appeaser nt

[UTUSN]

54. K&R #1 for, *this* is #1?!1 Kick it UP!1 n/t

[SILVER__FOX52]

56. Can you imagine..........

If what flembaugh, savage, beck, etc, say is distasteful now, can you imagine what these Neo Fascist scumbags would say if they were unleashed, by some unfortunate twist of fate, where enough of them were actually elected to Congress or even, enough State positions? Jesus, that is one scary thought. The muzzles would be off then. I think that's when I would purchase my ex-patriot ticket out of here.

[wordpix]

57. if you're a pol, never, ever say anything off the record you don't want published

Brown should know this. He's already been gov.

[HughMoran]

58. He better be careful or "giant forehead" will headbut him

That could be deadly!



It was stupid what he said - better to get the stupidity out of the way early I guess.

[Lagomorph]

59. So Jerry, about that "no mudslinging" pledge....

I dunno if you heard yourself...

[No Elephants]

77. the only one mudslinging is Whitman.

Brown's point is that she has a very well funded propaganda machine and is willing to smear him. Do you disagree with that?

Brown then said Goebbels had invented that kind of propaganda. Do you disagree with that?

Commenting accurately on your opponent's campaign tactics is not mud-slinging. If he called her a whore or a thief, that would be mud-slinging (unless he could prove it). And he did not make the remark for public consumption, anyway.

[Rage for Order]

61. Well, at least the campaigns are focusing on the issues facing CA!

:)

[Loudmxr]

62. He was talking about Shlomo Goebbels who ran publicity at Mayer.

Remember Its California. :smoke:

[Nancy Waterman]

63. The point was to inoculate himself against later attacks by her

Whatever smears she makes about him, people will remember he compared her to Geobbels and make the connection to it being dark propaganda. Not a bad strategy by Brown, a sort of pre-emptive strike.

[Jackpine Radical]

65. Good point.

Hey, I was just thinking about you this evening, wondering if you spent much time around here anymore.

[glinda]

64. He is %400 right about her wanting to be President.

[NBachers]

66. Oh man, I never even thought of that

but as soon as I read it, it fit just right.

She's making her political bones on the backs of powerless people who can't fight back.

God, I'm sick of her strident voice and her never-ending presence and everything about her . . . and if she's elected, this is just the beginning. Just make her go away!!

I want a candidate who makes their political bones against the powerful who can fight back.

[Juneboarder]

68. Whitman needs a teabag right about now... nt