Palin says her family went to Canada for health care when she was young

[sabra]

Source: WP

Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, a fierce opponent of Democratic health-care reform efforts who has said America under President Obama is headed toward socialism, told a Canadian audience in her family used to go to Canada to get medical care when she was growing up.

"We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada," Palin said a speech Saturday night, according to a report in Medicine Hat News of Medicine Hat, Alberta. "And I think now, isn't that ironic."

Read more: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/03/palin-says-she-used-canadian-h.html

[mac56]

1. Ironic, yes, but not for the reason she thinks.

What a hypocrite.

[BrklynLiberal]

36. EXACTLY!!!! Another case of being so stupid that you do not even realize how stupid you are.

[Turbineguy]

38. That's the nature of stupidity

It's why the teabaggers think she'll make a great president.

[BrklynLiberal]

39. Sadly, you are 100% correct.

[Bitwit1234]

96. I think so also. I mean when God writes on his hand and Palin

knows all about it, you can't tell me than even ONE of those tea bags has lick of sense. Probably didn't even finish the first grade.

[BrklynLiberal]

107. I do not think it is a lack of standard education....it is a lack of exposure to the wider world

and lack of encouragement to question and search for the answers for yourself, rather than sit back and be told what to do, what to think, and to accept whatever answers are handed to you.

An inquiring mind is a strong weapon.

[Javaman]

221. I love how they then only use the bible to fit their stupidity after the fact.

"oh she wrote on her hand cribbing stupidity? wait, there has got to be something in the bible to cover that. Yep, here it is god wrote on his hand!! so we can do it too!"


The insanity of this situation is lost on them. Their grounding of belief allows them to imitate their god to suit their purposes. How totally fucked up is that?

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spazito]

148. Try Juneau, it's in Alaska and is quite close to Skagway...

Here's a map:

http://www.mapofalaska.net/alaska-map-html/alaska-map-r6-c6.html

[Milo40]

156. Where's the road?

There's no road to Juneau on that map, but there is one to Whitehorse.

Skagway to Whitehorse 108 mi
Skagway to Juneau 100mi

now be honest with yourself, if a kid of yours was injured, would you drive the 8 miles extra to steal free health care. or is it more likely that they had Health insurance, and drove to Whitehorse, because the road was better?

In this thread alone, I'm sure you have gone through a whole roll of tinfoil

[Spazito]

According to your pal, Sarah, a ferry was available...

"Palin drew from her Skagway past to illustrate her point. Her brother burned his foot badly jumping through a fire, and her mother had to take him down to Juneau on the ferry to the hospital. “All these years later, that’s still what people have to rely on here in some instances,” she said."

http://www.skagwaynews.com/051107GovPalinvisit.html

So it seems transportation was available, also, too, yabetcha!

[Milo40]

168. not sure if you know this

but burns can take multiple treatments. and ferries don't run in the winter, when the lake is frozen, so it might have been a different time, that they went to Whitehorse.

What does her book say about it?

[Spazito]

177. I cited her quote and provided the link where she, not I, related the story...

about the ferry and her brother. Oh, btw, you should take note that this ferry/brother/burned foot story was also the incident referred to by her in Calgary but she says they took him to Whitehorse by train:

“My first five years of life we spent in Skagway, Alaska, right there by Whitehorse. Believe it or not – this was in the ‘60s – we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn’t that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada."

So, was she lying in 2007 or was she lying Friday?

I suspect you would know much more than I what her book might say about it. I tend to like fact-based books more than fiction so her book would not be on my reading list, also, too, yabetcha. How about yours?

[Milo40]

183. what hospital did you go to?

when you hurt yourself when you were 6, which hospital did you go to? Do you remember?

or is she lying, maybe. Can't tell.

Same as when Obama was talking about Selma, or his Uncle liberating Auschwitz. Are they Gaffes or trying to remember childhood stories that were told to you. Hard to say.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. There's many more important things in life.

[Spazito]

186. ROFL! Gosh, it was Whitehorse General Hospital for me at age 6...

it is easy to remember that.

Your comments about Obama makes your agenda VERY clear if it was not yet obvious to some already not to mention a very pathetic attempt to excuse Palin for her obvious lies.

[Milo40]

192. only in your mind

take a step back and tell me you are not doing the exact same thing about this little Palin speech as those detractors of Obama have been accused of.

What agenda, could a Canadian have towards US politics? I told you what brought me here. If you don't want me here just say so, I'll be gone.

[Spazito]

194. Your defense of Palin is ......interesting, to say the least...

as to the rest, do as you please but if your intent is seed disinformation about the Canadian healthcare system you will find DUers, both American and Canadian are well able to counter such disinformation and have been doing it for many months.

[Milo40]

196. you seem to think...

I'm some sort of Republican plant or something. Thanks for such a warm welcome.

I can assure you that I'm a Canadian, living in Alberta, and am here to discuss issues.
And don't worry about me, I can back up anything I say.

Had a question for you though. Have you ever used a private walk-in clinic in Alberta?

[Spazito]

198. You are welcome re your welcome! As to your question re clinics...

no, I have not used one. Any healthcare issues I may have had have been dealt with without resorting to helping those who wish to privatize our system for their own financial wellbeing.

[Milo40]

203. ha ha

STARS itself is a private charity. It is already part of a semi privatized system. It is no different than a not for private clinic that is contracted to the government to provide specialized services.

and other private clinics provide services that are not offered through your Health Care plan, like the Centre for Preventive Medicine, in Calgary. They are advocating to be covered under the Alberta Health and Wellness plan.

Don't be so afraid to be a little more progressive.

[Spazito]

218. You obviously 'missed' my response to you re STARS on another thread...

where I stated I donate to STARS, knew it had a contract with Alberta Health and, therefore, your brother would not have received a bill for having used it. I also donate to hospital foundations.

You seem to lack the understanding of how our healthcare system works. The government doesn't 'hire' the doctors either, they have a 'contract' with them to provide their service for a fee paid to them by the government instead of by the patient. STARS or clinics having a contract with the government to provide services for a fee paid for by the government is no different. PRIVATE clinics, in the full sense of the word, are those who do NOT have a contract with government and the patient pays the costs directly.

[Spazito]

240. Gosh, that tombstone looks SO good on you!

thanks mods!

[murphyj87]

255. Never

I would never walk into a private clinic of any kind, nor would 95% of Canadians. I totally reject a two tier health care system of the kind you're pushing. The majority of people who use private clinics in Canada are Americans, running away from American health care with their astronomical health costs. Without American patients, private clinics in Canada would go belly up, (or "tits up" as they say in Newfoundland). Private clinics in Canada should, and will be, a short, failed experiment, since Canadians will not use them.

[madmax]

234. 'I remember my brother,

he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing'.

Yeah, Arson!! :evilgrin:

[maxsolomon]

237. ferries don't run in winter?

you know that Juneau, and all of SE Alaska, is in a temperate rainforest, right?

welcome to DU!

[superconnected]

257. Enjoy your short stay.

[styersc]

167. Any rationalization for her lying about the same event in 2007?

Come on. Some thoughts before returning to Free Republic. Come on- you can Tivo Glenn Beck and Hannity.

[mwb970]

216. Oh for God's sake.

Just because $arah completely missed the point, does that mean that you have to as well?

:eyes:

[Andy823]

51. I noticed at the end of the article

I said that she told the same story earlier, but said they had to go on a train down to Juneau to get him care. The woman lies so much she can't keep her stories straight! That's a sign of a habitual liar!

[tulsakatz]

101. ...or a terrible memory!!

You have to remember the lies you've told before to sound consistent.......that's why it's easier to tell the truth. You're more likely to remember the truth but not remember all of the lies you've told.

[edwinmathews]

105. Not to defend Palin

but there was no socialized health care in that part of Canada (Yukon) until many years later . There was also no hospital in Skagway but there was one in Whitehorse back then .

[Milo40]

222. More info. on trip to Whithorse, with comment from Mayor

Palin's father said his family probably boarded the train for the Whitehorse hospital only twice - once when a daughter had rheumatic fever, and once when his son, also named Chuck, severely burned his leg and an infection set in.

"We much preferred to use our facilities because my insurance didn't cover anything in Whitehorse. And even though they have socialized medicine, I still had to pay the bill, being an American citizen," Heath said.
Palin's father said Monday they had little choice, given their location in Skagway.

"There was no road out of there at that time," said retired teacher Chuck Heath, reached by phone in Wasilla. "The ferry schedule was very erratic. We had no doctor in Skagway. The plane schedule was very erratic. The winds dictated whether the planes could come in or not."

Heath worked part-time for the White Pass&Yukon Railroad and had a pass allowing him and his family to ride for free.

The train in the 1960s often was the only option for getting to a doctor, Skagway Mayor Tom Cochran said.

There's now a road to Whitehorse about 112 miles (180 kilometres) away, but people still take advantage of Whitehorse dentists or doctors rather than flying to Alaska's capital, Juneau, 90 miles (145 kilometres) to the south.

"If you can't fly to Juneau - and a lot of times you can't, especially in the winter - they're going to get you to a medical treatment facility if it's an emergency, and that's normally where Whitehorse comes into play," Cochran said.

Cochran has lived in Skagway since 1968 and his family knew the Heaths. His own child needed help a decade ago.

"It was probably 10 years ago, anyway, two of my kids were in a four-wheeler accident, and one of them was hurt pretty badly, so we medevaced them to Whitehorse via ambulance," he said. "It's usually emergency situations when people go up there."

http://news.ca.msn.com/canada/cp-article.aspx?cp-documentid=23602333

[Walk away]

2. Apparently, Canadian doctors couldn't treat that large hole in her head.

What a boob!

[nenagh]

24. Canadian "Socialized Medicine" began in 1984

I can't stand Sarah Palin....

But by choosing the 1960's as the time her family chose Canadian health care.. She can rightly claim that was an era prior to Canada legislating for "Socialized Medicine"

[snagglepuss]

26. Where do you get 1984? Canadian universal healthcare began in 1966.

[nenagh]

33. Sorry you are right ...

1966 Medical Care Act passed in Canada providing approx 50% coverage of hospital and physicians services..

1984 Canada Health Care Act provided the criteria essentially for universal coverage for "all insured persons" for all "medically necessary" hosiptal and physician's services with no copay...

which the purist may consider the beginning of "socialized medicine"

As a Canadian, I am thankful..

[snagglepuss]

71. You're woefully uniformed. Socialized medicine in Canada started in 1966

with the Medical Care Act. The 1984 Act to which you refer, the Canada Health Act, simply prohibited user fees and extra billing by doctors. These extra fees were viewed as contravening the principles of unversal healthcare which is why law was passed.

snip

1966: Canada Passes Universal Health Coverage Law The Medical Care Act comes into law in Canada. The legislation provides for universal public coverage of hospital and doctors’ services to all Canadians.





http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=medical_care_act__canada__1966__1

[Milo40]

109. Yukon enrolled in the prgram in 1972

Canada did, but the Yukon, didn't until 1972. Palin's family would have had to pay cash.

[daleo]

169. The Yukon is a territory, not a province

So, the federal government would have had responsibility for health care. Since federal legislation was passed in the 60's it would seem odd to have the Yukon covered so late.

[Milo40]

175. well check it out and let us know what you find

thanks

[daleo]

239. The 1966 Medical Care Act stated "all Canadians" were covered

The Medical Care Act comes into law in Canada. The legislation provides for universal public coverage of hospital and doctors’ services to all Canadians. This follows the first public health insurance plan enacted in 1947 by the province of Saskatchewan, and the passage in 1957 of the federal Hospital Insurance and Diagnostics Services Act, which ensured universal coverage for in-hospital services in provinces that met certain criteria. By 1961, all Canada’s 10 provinces had signed on. In 1962, the government of Saskatchewan passed an act requiring doctors to collect fees solely through the government-run plan. In 1964, the Royal Commission on Health Services led by former Saskatchewan chief justice Emmett Hall recommended that a national plan covering all medical costs for all Canadians be established.
================================================================================================

That's all for now.

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=us_health_care_tmln_138#us_health_care_tmln_138

[Walk away]

190. Are you an FOP?

Just curious.

[Milo40]

193. FOP, define please

not sure what your acronym stands for

[snagglepuss]

204. Yukon didn't have fully federalized health care in 1964 but it had socialized hospital care.

From "Inventory to the Records of the Yukon Government, YRG 1, Series 12, Territorial Treasurer Records, 1951-1969" (PDF). Pages 5 and 6:

The Yukon Health Insurance Service (Y.H.I.S.) came into existence on July 1, 1961 to provide hospital insurance for all residents of the Yukon Territory. Its three objectives were: to relieve territorial residents of the burden of hospital costs; to assure hospitals of payment for services rendered; and to raise standards of hospital care.

Y.H.I.S. provided hospital insurance for Yukon residents without cost, as long as they had lived in Yukon for ninety days. The Yukon Government administered the plan. The federal Department of National Health and Welfare took responsibility for the standards of nursing, equipment, and medical aspects for the Yukon's three hospitals (Whitehorse, St. Mary's in Dawson, and Mayo)....

During the fiscal year 1961-1962, the Y.H.I.S. passed from its developmental stage to full operation as one of the twelve plans (provincial and territorial) which together formed the framework for a national plan of health services....

[Milo40]

208. for residents, non residents paid

The Conservative website Reason.com rebutted, correctly, that Canadian public health care was in its infancy in the 1960s, so this was hardly a case of a family abandoning American private care for the superior Canadian alternative.

KD Braden, a spokesperson at Whitehorse General Hospital, said it wasn't and isn't uncommon for Americans to seek treatment in Whitehorse. There was and is a fee. The difference is that, back in the 1960s “they paid it quite happily, because it was very, very reasonable,” whereas today the fees are such that “they're not always happy to pay.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/palin-in-hot-water-for-anecdote-that-her-family-saw-yukon-doctor/article1494080/

[mac56]

219. Anyway you care to slice it

Her family still benefited from affordable and accessible government-subsidized health care, back then.

The sort of thing she is striving to deny families right now.

[murphyj87]

242. Health care in Yukon

While The Yukon territorial government did not take over funding of health care until 1972, the FEDERAL government funded health care in Yukon from 1966 to 1972.

[Javaman]

224. You claim to live in Canada, yet you didn't know that the Yukon was a territory?

:shrug:

Heck, I live in Texas and knew that the Yukon was a territory.

[polly7]

231. No, it was introduced I believe in 1964 by Tom Duncan.

I am not sure when it was finalized.

[murphyj87]

246. Yukon health care

While Yukon territory only took charge of health coverage in 1972, the FEDERAL government paid for health care in Yukon from January 1, 1966 to 1972.

[Spazito]

29. Untrue...

1966 -- Parliament creates a national Medicare program with Ottawa paying 50% of provincial health
costs.

http://www.healthcoalition.ca/History.pdf

The 1984 Act was passed to ban extra-billing by doctors.

[snagglepuss]

202. Wrong. Following the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Health Services , 1964

the Medical Care Act came into law in 1966 which ensured that all medical costs for all Canadians would be covered by Medicare. The cost of delivering universal health care was split between the federal and provincial govts, the federal government paying 50% of the costs and the provinces the other half.

[murphyj87]

243. date of single payer health care

If memory serves me correctly, it came into effect at 11:59, December 31, 1965 (in other words, started January 1, 1966). I was 14. Hospitalization coverage (hospital bills paid by the province) began in 1958 (a 3% sales tax paid for that).

[Spazito]

247. Thanks for the pertinent facts, murphyj87!

and a belated welcome to DU!

[TrollBuster9090]

97. Palin born 1964, Saskatchewan socialized med 1946, rest of Canada 1966

1. Canada has had socialized medicine since the Medical Care Act of 1966. (And Saskatchewan has had socialized medicine since 1946.) You might be thinking of the 1984 Act that prohibited user fees. Prior to that, medical care was still universal and single-payer, but user fees could be charged for certain services in certain provinces. Trudeau abolished that.

2. Contrary to GOP talking points, THOUSANDS of Americans used to flood across the border to filch off of Canada's 'free' healthcare system, until they started tightening up on ID cards, and making sure that only Canadian citizens and landed immigrants could get access to it:

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/world/americans-filching-free-health-care-in-canada.html?pagewanted=1


3. Again, contrary to GOP talking points, the number of Canadians that go to the U.S. for healthcare is VERY SMALL. The only actual STUDY to try and find out how many do that concluded that the number is miniscule.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/short/21/3/19

Please feel free to cite the above study next time some blowhard cites one or two cases of isolated Canadian millionaires coming to the U.S. for treatment. When STATISTICS are not on your side, you cite individual examples, and pretend they're typical when they're not. And that's exactly what the GOP and their corporate masters have been doing for 30 years when it comes to the healthcare debate. Citing one or two examples of Canadains coming to the U.S. for treatment, while ignoring the fact that very few actually do that on average.

Meanwhile, there is about a one billion dollar a year traffic of senior citizens who can't afford their meds in the USA traveling to Canada to get them, and landing the Canadian pharmacies in trouble with their suppliers. If anybody is wondering why the argument about re-importation of drugs from Canada is nonsense, it's because CANADA IS NOT ALLOWED TO SHIP THEM to the U.S.. They negotiated price controls with the pharmaceutical industry on the specific condition that they would only sell to Canadians, and not allow re-importtion of cheaper drugs back to the USA. :)

[Styxiv]

124. You forgot to mention

The most IMPORTANT part of this comment: . Again, contrary to GOP talking points, the number of Canadians that go to the U.S. for healthcare is VERY SMALL. The only actual STUDY to try and find out how many do that concluded that the number is miniscule.


The REASON Canadians came(come) to the /US IS NOT because its better care but in some areas the equipment needed to test these people was not available AND when they did come to the US the CANADIAN SYSTEM STILL PAID THE COST!! the GOP talking points make it sound like it was due to the Canadian system being inept AND that THEY (the Canadians) PAID for it out of their own pockets rather then get free poor care in Canada which is not the case.

NOW having said that I'm sure there are cases where Canadians chose to have US doctors treat them rather then their own but they were not MADE to do it due to a poor choice in their own country. And as you pointed out it is very very small amount and with pretty much anything or service there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule.

Example if the favorite TV is say a Sony and someone CHOOSES a Mitsibushi it DOES NOT MAKE the Sony a lesser model its simply a CHOICE!!

OH and also even if Canadians CHOSE to come here for a treatment that may not be available there or you have to pay for your self its not different then here your coverage may not cover some types of treatments BUT you can get them if you CHOSE to pay for it your self.

[polly7]

230. Tom Duncan began his quest to bring universal healthcare to the

Yukon in 1964, if I'm remembering what I read correctly.

[murphyj87]

256. No, not really

Canada does not have socialized medicine at all. Canada has a single payer system, and the two terms are mutually exclusive.

In socialized medicine, hospitals are owned and operated by the government and physicans are civil servants. Canada is not like this. US DVA and DOD health care ARE socialized medicine since they meet this definition.

In a single payer system, hospitals are independently owed and run by an independent board, and physicians are in private practice. This is the Canadian system as well, as US Medicare and US Medicaid.

You can see that a hospital cannot be owned and run by the government (socialized medicine) and independentally owned and run by an indpendent board (single payer) at the same time.

You can see that a physician cannot be a civil servant (socialized medicine) and in private practice (single payer) at the same time.

[murphyj87]

245. date of single payer health care

If memory serves me correctly, singlew payer health care came into effect at 11:59, December 31 1965 (in other words started January 1, 1966) The Canada Health Act was created in 1982, which added to past legislation, but but government funded health care began on Januray 1,1966.

[rurallib]

30. but they can't do large holes in logic

[MidwestTransplant]

3. And her kid get's government funded health care. Hope the death panels stay away from the kid.

[Miss Authoritiva]

10. All her kids and her grandson are covered....

All of Palin's children and her grandson qualify for healthcare via the Alaska Native Tribal Health Consortium. This is because Todd Palin is 1/16th Yu'pik.

[Raschel]

20. She always brags about her "diverse" family.

:eyes:

[liberation]

32. Well... she is right. Her family ranges from pale white to slightly off white white

boom, that is like what? 3 different shades of white right there. Which she thinks it is pretty impressive with respect to where she comes from...

[Raschel]

67. Four with the fake tan.

:hi:

[nolabear]

59. 1/16th? Srsly? I always thought he was full blood. Heck, I'm more Indian than that.

And proud of it, I might add. But it's unusual for that small a blood quantum to be acknowledged. Oh well; I always hope something will click for that woman someday but the therapist part of me knows how long that road is.

[happygoluckytoyou]

63. the other 15/16th is pretty much useless sperm donor

[wolfgangmo]

72. And 15/16th Ass'Munch.

Just sayin.

[provis99]

211. only 1/16th? that means millions of white Americans are more Indian than Todd Palin.

where's my tribal health care? I'm 1/8th Choctaw, and I get jack squat.

[tomm2thumbs]

4. insert-foot-into-mouth then-swallow-hard

it'll fit, there's room for two

[EFerrari]

14. Her dental bills must be astronomical.

[daleo]

5. She's rich now

So she doesn't need to take advantage of foreign "socialized medicine".

[onehandle]

6. So her entire extended family are Grifters too.

Figures.

[Raschel]

21. Her dad seems very strange.

[CountAllVotes]

7. "And I think now, isn't that ironic"

Gee she actually thinks that she knows how to think?

:think: :argh:

:kick: & recommend.

[Blue Owl]

8. No fucking shame

No fucking brain, no fucking clue, no fucking dignity.

[Kali]

9. the perfect repuke!

[apnu]

16. ... ergo: the perfect Repbublican! (nt)

[rpannier]

92. Now, Now, Now...

She has found God and as such everything has been made right

Like Ensign, Vitter and Sanford all recommitted to God.

[TrollBuster9090]

98. I'm sure she held her hand upside down...

so that she thought socialized medicine started in Canada in '99 instead of '66, and she was trying to suggest things have gotten worse.

[husox]

11. Unbelievable

I wonder if she realizes yet why that wasn't a smart thing to say.

[YOY]

17. She never 'realizes' anything.

Realizing things takes a functional brain.

He followers haven't realized she's an empty suit that's grifting them for the same reason.

[bulloney]

53. She'll realize it and cover up for this statement...about a month from now.

Just like her recent comeback on writing talking points on her hands.

Palin's brain...moving at the speeed of blight.

[Crowman1979]

12. HA! HA! She just killed her own and the GOP's arguement!

They are so screwed! But the mass media will just ignore it.

[Zambero]

13. Palin couldn't possibly be so stupid

Or could she? By speaking in favorable terms of how her family would forego treatment in a country where medical care is "market driven", in favor of one that embraced "socialized medicine", she is essentially making a case for the latter. Unfortunately for Palin, Canada isn't Las Vegas. What happens (or is said) there doesn't necessariy stay there.

[AlbertCat]

93. where medical care is "market driven", in favor of one that embraced "socialized medicine"

Market driven and THE BEST IN THE WORLD! Why would she go for inferior treatment?

[Jester Messiah]

15. O_O

This... this is just... oh wow.

[Miss Authoritiva]

18. But wait -- there's more!

It seems that Palin "modifies" her story according to her audience.

Palin has also told an alternate version of the story that had her family traveling south by ferry to Juneau from Skagway for treatment of her brother's burned foot, rather than to Canada, according to a 2007 report posted by the Skagway News.

This update was just added to the original. See original link for link to Skagway News article.

[AllyCat]

58. She is also a liar. Or forgetful. Or both.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

19. There are thousands of morans like Palin

and we usually ignore them. It's the people who would like to see her running the country that frighten me.

[Prof Lester]

121. Sarah gives morans a bad name

Like I said, we should find that moran that started the "moran" thing with his teabag sign. Make 'im famous all over the internet. Hey, there's Jimmie-Bob Jimmie, the feller that invented "morans"..

[Kurt Remarque]

166. you mean the INTERNETS, of course

[madmax]

232. LOL welcome to DU - we need more humor n/t

[tyne]

22. cerrripes

I'll bet a million that she's lying....yet again.

[The_Commonist]

23. Sorry, Sarah, that's not irony. It's hypocrisy.

Call it what it is, please!

[leftofcool]

25. Not likely since Canada didn't have socialized health care then.

[snagglepuss]

28. How did you come up with that? Canadian universal healthcare started in 1966.

Actually some provinces versions of it before that


The beginning of coverage
In 1946, Tommy Douglas' Co-operative Commonwealth Federation government in Saskatchewan passed the Saskatchewan Hospitalization Act, which guaranteed free hospital care for much of the population. Douglas had hoped to provide universal health care, but the province did not have the money.

In 1950, Alberta created a program similar to Saskatchewan's. Alberta, however, created Medical Services (Alberta) Incorporated (MS(A)I) in 1948 to provide prepaid health services. This scheme eventually provided medical coverage to over 90% of the population.<30>

In 1957, the federal government passed the Hospital Insurance and Diagnostic Services Act to fund 50% of the cost of such programs for any provincial government that adopted them. The HIDS Act outlined five conditions: public administration, comprehensiveness, universality, portability, and accessibility. These remain the pillars of the Canada Health Act.


Medical Care Act
The Saskatchewan program proved a success and the federal government of Lester B. Pearson, pressured by the New Democratic Party (NDP) who held the balance of power, introduced the Medical Care Act in 1966 that extended the HIDS Act cost-sharing to allow each province to establish a universal health care plan. It also set up the Medicare system. In 1984, the Canada Health Act was passed, which prohibited user fees and extra billing by doctors. In 1999, the prime minister and most premiers reaffirmed in the Social Union Framework Agreement that they are committed to health care that has "comprehensiveness, universality, portability, public administration and accessibility."<31>



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#The_beginning_of_coverage

[Milo40]

117. dig deeper, you'll find the truth

[snagglepuss]

206. Those are the facts not more or less. You're the one who needs do some

digging.

[Milo40]

210. what year did Palin say this happened in?

?

[whopis01]

225. Between 1964 and 1969 - probably towards the latter

since she said it happened during her first 5 years and claims to remember part of it.

[demwing]

27. I want to know WHY she thinks that's ironic.

Has she had a change of heart? This just doesn't make sense unless she feels differently about Canadian Health Care than she might be perceived to feel.

Unless she just doesn't understand the meaning of irony, which, in this case, would be ironic, because her actual misunderstanding would be quite different from what one would normally have assumed her misunderstanding to be.

[liberation]

31. Because "ironic" does not mean what she thinks it means...

Obviously her two bit reptilian brain can't (or doesn't want to) distinguish the difference between "irony" and "hypocrisy."


What a walking and talking piece of utter shit this lady is. She is an intellectually bankrupt, entitled, and incompetent little sociopath. Which explains why she is so popular among the GOP and those tea bagging idiots.

The fact that she is not only allowed, but she is actually fomented as part of our public discourse... makes me weep for what this nation has devolved down to.Ugh...

[WCGreen]

40. Cause it's lik rain on your wedding day...

[Norrin Radd]

44. LOL.

[Raschel]

66. life has a funny way of sneaking up on you when you think everything's okay

and everything's going right

:rofl:

[JBoy]

34. Unfortunately, Palin lies so much I don't know if this is true.

She may have just been pandering to her Canadian audience, and made up some shit she thought they might want to hear.

[Brother Buzz]

49. That makes it even more delicious

Walking this whopper back could prove to be a challenge. She, her spokesperson, or her Facebook's 'clarification' could prove to be most entertaining.

[Oerdin]

35. I don't see this making much of a difference.

$1000 here or there isn't going to help much. Not when so many houses are upside down $100k or $200k and the banks are refusing any short sale which isn't at the total of the outstanding balance.

[Joey Liberal]

37. Caribou Barbie has no shame, or brains. nt

[avaistheone1]

81. Good summary of the woman.

And may I had she has no pain.

[LiberalFighter]

41. What service does Canadian health service do they provide to non Canadians?

[snagglepuss]

80. None unless non-Canadians want to pay. Until recently health cards had

no photo so fraud was a big problem (ie relatives and friends from other countries using health cards. The system now has tightened up.

[LiberalFighter]

112. So in all likelihood Palin's family committed fraud?

[snagglepuss]

209. Yukon didn't have federally funded Medicare till 1972 however it did have,

as of 1961, socialized hospital insurance so if the Palins had friends in Whitehorse with hosptal insurance, it's conceivable they could have borrowed a card and used it frauduently. Whether they would have done so in an emergency is IMO unlikely.

From "Inventory to the Records of the Yukon Government, YRG 1, Series 12, Territorial Treasurer Records, 1951-1969" (PDF). Pages 5 and 6:

The Yukon Health Insurance Service (Y.H.I.S.) came into existence on July 1, 1961 to provide hospital insurance for all residents of the Yukon Territory. Its three objectives were: to relieve territorial residents of the burden of hospital costs; to assure hospitals of payment for services rendered; and to raise standards of hospital care.

Y.H.I.S. provided hospital insurance for Yukon residents without cost, as long as they had lived in Yukon for ninety days. The Yukon Government administered the plan. The federal Department of National Health and Welfare took responsibility for the standards of nursing, equipment, and medical aspects for the Yukon's three hospitals (Whitehorse, St. Mary's in Dawson, and Mayo)....

During the fiscal year 1961-1962, the Y.H.I.S. passed from its developmental stage to full operation as one of the twelve plans (provincial and territorial) which together formed the framework for a national plan of health services....

[murphyj87]

244. I know of..

I know of an American who paid nothing for medical treatment in Canada. Of course that was my aunt going to my mother's physician. He charged her nothing for a couple of stitches after an accident.

[thescotman]

42. health care bebate

Hi America i from Scotland the land of free health we watch fox news over on cable and we cant belive the way they go on about they dont wot all americas to have health care its a news channel not a party

[Submariner]

56. Welcome aboard Scotman

Fox News is our very own fascist TV propaganda outlet.

WARNING: Do not watch too much of Fox or dementia may set in, and we Liberals wouldn't want our friends overseas to sustain too much brain damage.

[DeSwiss]

61. LOL!!!

- I love it!!!

Even "lil Sarah loves it..........

[Grassy Knoll]

119. Now that is fucking funny, and true...

You owe me a beer and a new keyboard . HAHA
:fistbump:

[tinrobot]

43. So... she stood in front of Canadian socialist death panels and survived?

Imagine that.

[CLANG]

45. Ironically a hypocrite - Ironicrite?

[Ecumenist]

46. That Bitch...HYPOCRITICAL HEIFER!!

She needs to be whipped till the white meat shows.

[EnviroBat]

47. To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

The stoopid,,, it HURTS!

[penndragon69]

48. HYYYY...PO crit!

aye?

[ArcticFox]

50. Is she trying to say that's the reason she's so dumb?

[orbitalman]

52. Hyprocrits should NOT be allowed to speak. nt

[NICO9000]

54. And yet, she'll get an easy pass on this from Faux

and probably the rest of the corporate media.

[Raschel]

68. Sean Hannity actually said "she's way smarter than Obama".

:puke:

[mwb970]

217. This is a common statement on wackaloon boards.

Believing against all evidence that grifting quitter $arah is "smarter" than constitutional scholar Obama is so ludicrous as to defy human understanding. Hearing it from a blockheaded dumb-ass oaf like Hannity just makes it more...what's the word...ironic!

[Blue Owl]

226. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I needed the laugh -- and I've underestimated what a shitlick Hannity is.

[AllyCat]

55. Not only can she not speak, she can't understand irony.

Hypocrite.

[Hekate]

57. aaaaaaagggghhhhh Teh Stupid! It Burns!

:wtf: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Douglas Carpenter]

60. kick and recommend

[DeSwiss]

62. K&R!!! n/t

[KansDem]

64. I see a bumper sticker in the future--

Socialized Health Care:
If it's good enough for Sarah,
It's good enough for the rest of us!

[madmax]

65. +1

[friendly_iconoclast]

176. +10 Start printing them up and using them, folks. As often as possible

Snaps to you, KansDem!

[friendly_iconoclast]

182. And signs in large typeface, for use at teabagger rallies

n/t

[begin_within]

69. She requested a lobotomy but Canadian doctors refused, saying there was nothing there to remove.

[47of74]

76. LOL!

[earth mom]

142. ROFLMAO!

:rofl:

[Oldtimeralso]

212. They called in a team of proctologists

and they found the source of the problem, (crainiunenrectumitis)!

[ObamaismyPresident]

70. Hypocrite

Like every Republican...

[RoccoR5955]

73. Poor Sarah

She's dumber than a bag of rocks, and doesn't even know it!

[Crowman1979]

74. Palin has done for damage to her presidential chances than we could ever imagine!

BRAVO Sarah! I'm so looking forward to you NOT being in the white house.

[ieoeja]

75. DUers hear hypocrisy. Americans here irony because, "today Canadians flock to American hospitals."

This is another one of those situations where my fellow DUers see a RW screwup that is 100% *not*. And the more attention it gets, the more the "Canadians flock to American hospitals" meme will get airplay.

When this blows up in our face, consider the following reply, "if she was simply going to the closest hospital, and it just happened to be in Canada, what makes you think all those Canadians 'flocking to America' are not doing the exact same thing? You don't get many hospitals in the countryside, and Canada is mostly countryside. It has nothing to do with coverage or quality of healthcare. Just location. The difference is that no Canadian goes bankrupt because he had to rush to a hospital ... in the US or Canada. Many Americans do."

[Spazito]

79. Canadians do NOT flock to American hospitals ....

and that meme only sells to the teabaggers.

It is Palin's hypocrisy in virulently opposing healthcare reform, referring to death panels and the evils of socialized medicine, when she was very happy to make use of an evil socialized healthcare system herself.

Poor Palin, she, as usual, opened mouth and immediately inserted both feet.

[ieoeja]

82. A Canadian across the border from a US hospital and 50 miles from the nearest Canadian hospital ...

... is going to make the 50 mile trip instead of crossing the border like the Palin's did?!?

Are Canadians dumber than Palins? Enquiring minds want to know!

[Spazito]

84. Yes, because our system, unlike yours, will airlift or transport by ambulance...

them to the nearest Canadian center that can take care of their needs without checking their bank balance first or sending them an outrageous bill after treatment. If they choose to cross the border, they have to pay your system's gross overcharges and they will not be reimbursed for them and Canadians, being the opposite of dumb, choose our system over yours, go figure eh!

Again, Canadians are NOT flocking to U.S. hospitals, not by a long shot but carry on believing the RW meme if it works for you, lol.

[polly7]

89. A++++++++++

That myth was pretty much debunked by an article in the New York Times? I believe, and many studies indicating just the opposite. Someone should look into the reasoning OHIP cards all had to be redone.

[Milo40]

153. Not true in Alberta

research a little about STARS in Alberta. Once again there is regional disparity, due to the Provinces having some autonomy on services provided.

http://www.stars.ca/bins/index.asp

good people, my brother was airlifted to Calgary, from Lethbridge by STARS.

[Spazito]

158. What was your brother billed for the STARS service?

I, too, live in Alberta and the Alberta government covers less than other provinces even though they certainly had the money during the 'oilrush' years recently. They have reduced what is covered under basic care and shuffled everything they could over to private insurers like Blue Cross. My Blue Cross coverage cost has doubled since then, how about yours?

I also lived in British Columbia where the medivac jet would fly in and transport patients to Kelowna or Vancouver, sometimes even to Calgary or Edmonton and those patients never received a bill for their transport.

Alberta, the home of the racist, homophobic Reformers, would LOVE to see the Canadian healthcare system privatized and the government of Alberta is shafting it's own citizens by promoting this.

[Milo40]

162. It was work related

covered by compensation, if there was a bill. I'd have to check with him to be absolutely sure though.

[Spazito]

184. Being covered by compensation because of a work-related accident....

is quite different than a personal accident that precipitates the need for STARS. It's unfortunate you did not include that data in your original post about STARS.

[Milo40]

195. STARS info., living in Alberta like yourself...

I found some information on STARS and who pays for the service.

STARS is a non-profit, charitable organization. Our funding needs are met through significant private donations from individuals, services clubs and the business community as well as through collaborative agreements with Alberta Health Services.

The Ministry, through Alberta Health Services, ensures rotary (helicopter) air ambulance services are available. STARS has an agreement with Alberta Health Services to provide dedicated rotary air ambulance service from bases in both Calgary and Edmonton.

Responsibility for services

1. Alberta Health and Wellness pays dedicated air ambulance providers according to contract agreements.
2. The Workers' Compensation Board covers air ambulance services for workers.

Air ambulance service outside Alberta

Air ambulance services are not insured services under the Canada Health Act and, in most provinces, are not covered by inter-provincial reciprocal agreements.

* IMPORTANT: Albertans are strongly advised to purchase travel insurance when travelling outside of Alberta, to cover the cost of air ambulance service if it is needed.

If an Albertan is sent out of Alberta for health care services not available in Alberta by his or her physician, the Province will pay for the patient's air transportation on either a commercial airplane or, if needed, on an air ambulance. Arrangements for these services must be made by the physician, hospital or Emergency Medical Services personnel through Alberta Health and Wellness before the patient leaves the province.

[Spazito]

197. I donate to STARS, have their current calendar on my wall...

I am well versed on STARS, knew they had an agreement with Alberta Health Services and knew your brother, had his need for STARS been a personal accident rather than a work-related accident where Worker's Compensation is involved, he would have received the service without a bill.

[polly7]

227. Air Ambulance Service here (Lifeguard) is not covered in the basic insurance,

however provincial funding to health regions here in SK covers a substantial portion. Just as with ground ambulance, anyone under the SK Assistance Plan and those eligible for supplemental health benefits under Social Service are covered.

[Milo40]

151. you's have to define "flock"

to prove or disprove your statement true or false.

In Canada we have the best system in the World, but we still have problems that could be fixed to make it better. Our costs are rising, so our taxes will or debt. Waiting lists are still too long too long

you seem to think there is some conspiracy where Canadians are complaining about our system to help the non-supporters of reform in the US.

Would you like me to send you some tin-foil?

[Spazito]

161. Gosh, you don't know what "flock" means when used in the context it was...

here you go:

flocked, flock·ing, flocks
To congregate or travel in a flock or crowd.

Canadians are going to the U.S. hospitals in crowds, in a flock? No, they are not.

Do you support the privatization of healthcare in Canada?

Oh, and using the same pathetic red-herring re tinfoil really doesn't help your 'message'.

[Milo40]

164. where was it stated then

no, I do not support the complete privatization of Health care in Canada.

But a hybrid system would be nice. If more private clinics were allowed, those that could afford them and not want to wait would use them. Reducing the pressure that the public system is under.

[Spazito]

170. It seems by hybrid, you mean one for the rich and another for the middle class and poor...

so the rich would not be treated like everyone else, they could just go to the head of the line because they have the bucks. If you want to jump to the head of the line, the U.S. would welcome your dollars and, if you are the highest bidder, they will dump their own citizens down the list to fit you in.

Universal healthcare ensures ALL Canadians receive the care they need REGARDLESS of income and I know that irks the hell out of the Reformers but it suits the needs of the other 83% of Canadians.

[Milo40]

174. Read my post again

I did not say anything about a 2 tiered system or one for the exclusively rich. There are private clinics now in Canada, that do not only cater to the rich. They to have to be competitive, or else people would just wait on the public system.

If a town can not afford a hospital, but a private clinic was available, it would be used by both rich or poor.

[Spazito]

181. You made it very clear in your post that...

"If more private clinics were allowed, those that could afford them and not want to wait would use them." "those that could afford them and not want to wait....". Seems pretty clear to me that the rich don't wait, the rest do according to your own words.

[Milo40]

185. and that's true

at present the "rich" go to the US or other countries. Didn't Danny Williams just go to the US for Heart Surgery?

If you have 100 people in a line and 5 decide to leave, will the person that was originally 100th get to the front of the line faster?

If the Rich choose to go somewhere else, what do I care, it increases the doctor to patient ratio for the people left in line.

[Spazito]

188. From your posts, you seem to see yourself as one of those who

can afford to go elsewhere as opposed to being someone who actually gives a damn about the people "left in line". Pretty sad, actually.

[Milo40]

191. assumptions again

I was actually on a waiting list for a family doctor awhile ago. I got called to say that a spot had come available. I asked if there was someone that could be in more use of it. I'm in pretty good Health, knock on wood, and have not had to use the Health Care system too often. Cuts, stitches etc, but that's about it.

so, don't presume to know who I am or how I think and act.

and no, I can't afford to go somewhere else, but if I do need to go to a specialist or have an MRI, I hope the rich guys have all gone somewhere else, so I don't have to wait as long. Their tas dollars still subsidize my service, due to the higher amount they pay towards Health Care.

[Milo40]

205. statement from Whitehorse hospital

KD Braden, a spokesperson at Whitehorse General Hospital, said it wasn't and isn't uncommon for Americans to seek treatment in Whitehorse. There was and is a fee. The difference is that, back in the 1960s “they paid it quite happily, because it was very, very reasonable,” whereas today the fees are such that “they're not always happy to pay.”


It seems by his/her statement that there would have been a charge for them coming to Whitehorse, and that the cost difference is not as great nowadays.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/palin-in-hot-water-for-anecdote-that-her-family-saw-yukon-doctor/article1494080/

[murphyj87]

250. Far North

I lived for two years in a town in the far north of Quebec and the company (it was a company town-Iron Ore Company of Canada) had planes available to fly people out for medical care, since there was no access by road. The town was far enough north that in winter there was four hours of daylight, so I went to school in the dark and came home in the afternoon in the dark. They flew my father down to Halifax 4 times, but he died of a rare blood disease August 16, 1959, so we ended up moving back to Halifax. Hard to believe that it's over 50 years since he died.

[ThoughtCriminal]

189. The reason Canadians come to the U.S.

Has nothing to do with health care.

Southern Arizona and other sunbelt fills up with Canadian visitors every winter. Many Canadians that are able to, head south to escape the winter. During the months that they are in Arizona, California or Florida, if they need medical care they usually do not fly back to Canada to it.


http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=85701
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Calgary,%20Canada&wuSelect=WEATHER

[Milo40]

207. this Whitehorse Doctor lets you know why

The Conservative website Reason.com rebutted, correctly, that Canadian public health care was in its infancy in the 1960s, so this was hardly a case of a family abandoning American private care for the superior Canadian alternative.

KD Braden, a spokesperson at Whitehorse General Hospital, said it wasn't and isn't uncommon for Americans to seek treatment in Whitehorse. There was and is a fee. The difference is that, back in the 1960s “they paid it quite happily, because it was very, very reasonable,” whereas today the fees are such that “they're not always happy to pay.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/palin-in-hot-water-for-anecdote-that-her-family-saw-yukon-doctor/article1494080/

The cost difference is not that great between Canada and the US. That's the problem I see with the manner in which a single payer system is being "sold" in the US.

The last thing the Dems want to do is over-sell and under-deliver. It will hurt them politically.

[TankLV]

86. That's exactly the MAIN reason they do so - and the Canadian Government set up a program

thru their Health CARE System to do exactly that - so that people in places like Fort Erie can go to Buffalo, and Windor can go to Detroit, etc.

But logic is not a strong point when you have only FEAR...

[SemperEadem]

88. funny about that

"if she was simply going to the closest hospital, and it just happened to be in Canada, what makes you think all those Canadians 'flocking to America' are not doing the exact same thing?

when she was in labor with Trig or Algebra or HomeEc or whatever his name is, didn't she basically put that baby's health in danger because she didn't want the baby born in an American hospital--she wanted the child born in Alaska? Since we supposedly have "the best" medical system in the world, why wasn't it good enough for her to use?

[TrollBuster9090]

99. That's no doubt why SHE thought it was 'ironic' but

...but it will not blow up in our faces if, for once, we are able to spin it CORRECTLY.


If it's used as an excuse by the mainstream media to once again spin the hand full of cases about a few Canadian millionaires coming to the U.S. for health care again, yes that would qualify as a blow up.


If, on the other hand, somebody in the news media...JUST FOR THE NOVELTY OF IT....decides to actually FACT CHECK that meme, they'll find that the number of Canadians who actually come to the U.S. for healthcare they can't get at home is astronomically small, according to the only study that's actually been done on the issue.


http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/short/21/3/19



So, everybody, please feel free to spread this link around.

[polly7]

103. Not true at all ....

"In November, Palin told Canadian comedian Mary Walsh — in character as Marg Delahunty during an episode of “This Hour Has 22 Minutes” — that Canada should dismantle its public health-care system and let private enterprise take over.

Republicans battling against health-care reform have long claimed that Canadians flood the U.S. to get health care because of waiting lists north of the border.

But Palin’s experience, if accurate, reflects what some studies suggest is a more common trend: Americans travelling abroad to get cheaper care.

A report last spring by Deloitte Center for Health Solutions said 750,000 Americans travelled abroad for medical care in 2007, and forecast that number would rise to six million by 2010. That trend far outpaces the number of Canadians coming to the U.S. for medical treatment."

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2010/03/08/13158286.html

[fascisthunter]

110. what a crock

[Milo40]

122. a thinker, I like it

We Canadians come to the US because of wait times, not only because of distance. A wait for a MRI can be up to 6 months, it's sometimes makes sense to come to the US and pay.

If you were to come across for Health Care, you would be billed, as the Palin's were in the 1960's.

This whole thread is full of lies and assumptions, do some fact checking.

If you'd like to know about the Canadian system, ask the questions. I'll give you an honest answer, and back it up.

the US is travelling down the same road we have been down.

[Spazito]

146. LOL, you are funny!

You do know your are one of only 17% of Canadians who are unhappy with our healthcare system and those 17% are mostly CRAP (Conservative,Reform, Alliance Party) members, you know the "Bush was awesome" ones who also, coincidentally, love Palin.

So, do you want privatized healthcare in Canada?

[Milo40]

165. did I say I was unhappy?

there are things that I would like to see changed, but that does not mean I am unhappy with the system.

[polly7]

235. Well I know of people who've waited two weeks for an MRI so

I guess it all depends on where you are and how willing you are to get a second opinion and referral to somewhere else in Canada for an earlier date. Paid for by your provincial health plan. Emergency, un-dx'd illness of course get immediate MRI's and C/T scans. I worked in the ER at the Pasqua in Regina as part of my training, I saw it.

[LanternWaste]

132. less and less traction the more it gets used.

'"Canadians flock to American hospitals" meme will get airplay...' which is getting less and less traction the more it gets used as the numbers simply don't add up to support that assertion.

[LanternWaste]

229. Hardly a "flocking" number, yes...?

"As noted above, 0.5 percent of respondents indicated that they had received health care in the United States in the prior year, but only 0.11 percent (20 of 18,000 respondents) said that they had gone there for the purpose of obtaining any type of health care, whether or not covered by the public plans..."


http://cthealth.server101.com/myth_canadians%27_use_of_healthcare_in_the_u_s_.htm


Hardly a "flocking" number, yes...?

[craigmatic]

77. She is just so dumb. I wish she would go away already

[wordpix]

251. every time she's on TV & my mom with Alzheimer's sees her, my mom says

"It's that woman again? I can't stand her!"

Mom can't remember a thing from moment to moment, but she knows when she's seen that idiot before.

[Mr. Sparkle]

78. It is ironic that she is defending the same service now that made her and her family go abroad

for health care when she was younger. It is also pretty fucking stupid and makes her out to be even a bigger idiot than the one she comes across.

[kitkat65]

83. According to the Skagway News website

"Palin drew from her Skagway past to illustrate her point. Her brother burned his foot badly jumping through a fire, and her mother had to take him down to Juneau on the ferry to the hospital."

Unless her brother burned his feet a lot she's telling a different story now than then. That's what she does. She makes things up to make herself relevant to those she is trying to woo at any particular moment in time. It's not the facts that are important it's that compelling narrative that is important to her.

The fact that these narratives - which supposedly shape her world view - change with each audience or opportunity make it obvious that this woman either stands for everything or NOTHING.

And, it's just bizarre how the Palinites are completely blind to it. The inability to see through the inconsistencies and their denial are as pathological as she is, so, yes, she is truly "one of them".

FWIW, Juneau and Whitehorse are equidistant to the town of Skagway and I have no idea what traveling conditions or roads are like to either.

On edit: I wrote this poorly. My bad but I'm on pain meds. Hope you get the idea anyway.

[polly7]

85. What makes her admittance even more stupid is that the

event was sponsored in part by the Fraser Institute, one of whose main goals has been to privatize our horrible Canadian health-care system.

Gawd, what a moron.

[KT2000]

87. Isn't that fraud?

Did they do this as emergency patients? Wouldn't they have to show a card of some sort?
She owes a better explanation of this and they probably owe prison time and $$ to Canada.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

94. I know another American who was in an accident in Canada,

They had insurance, the Canadian hospital didn't care they did the paper work as though he was a transient billing the province.

[polly7]

104. We have picked up non-Canadians who have not been charged

for a thing if they couldn't pay. One example was a foreign-exchange student from Czech Republic who had about $10 in his pocket. But, most do come with some kind of out-of country insurance that covers them.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

113. He had insurance, the Canadian hospital just didn't care

It was less effort for them to say he was a bum of no fixed address than to bill his US insurance company,

[polly7]

116. Sorry. I was just referencing someone from a country other

than the U.S.

[cartach]

90. Ironic?

More like hypocritical.

[Yavin4]

91. The Lesson Here Is: Single Payer Cannot Fix Stupid

Stupid is a chronic disease with no known cure.

[Crunchy Frog]

95. Not ironic, just profoundly hypocritical.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

100. She (and her family) survived

the evil Canadian "socialized medicine" health care system they have!!!! They (apparently) never had to go before any "death panels" either, which is a good thing because otherwise she would've never ran for VP in 2008 and become such a *transformational* leader and advocate for our country and it's founding values! :eyes:

[hisownpetard]

102. Ya mean, she was for it before she was against it?

[Milo40]

106. Whitehorse didn't have Gov. Healthcare in '72

her family lived in Skagway at the time. It was closer to go to Whitehorse, which did not have Federal Cost sharing plans in 1972. They would have had to pay cash.

[Spazito]

118. Yes, it most certainly did...

I lived there at the time, my children were born there in 74 and 77, both births AND my prenatal care plus visits prior to that were totally covered by universal healthcare. This seems to be the meme the RW Palinites are trying to push, it will fail.

[Milo40]

126. For non-citizens?

you lived there, making you a resident. There is a difference.

Does the US provide health care for illegal alien residents, at present? If what you say was provided in Canada is "Universal Health Care", then you already have it in the US also.

[Spazito]

136. You pointedly said....

"Whitehorse didn't have Gov. Healthcare in '72". There certainly was no equivocation on that statement whatsoever and there certainly was no differentiation between non-citizens versus Canadians in your bald statement. I am a Canadian citizen and what we had in the Yukon, full coverage for the birth of my children, prenatal care, etc, having to put NO money down and NO bill coming in the mail certainly is very different to what was and is provided for by the broken U.S. healthcare system.

The Palin family would not have been turned down for care in Whitehorse, that does not mean they should have been accessing it at all, they could have gone to Juneau.

[Milo40]

154. They weren't turned down

but they would have had to pay. The Yukon at the time was probably much like Mass. is today, they had a provincial program.

By the way, how's Mass.'s Health Care system working out. Heard the prices are above the National Average, and they are raking up deficits?

[mac56]

236. Another clumsy attempt at introducing a red herring.

Is Palin your cousin, or something?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

108. The media promotes this 'thing' disguised as a woman

[tabasco]

111. Wow, that must have been awful

getting all that socialistic, communistic health care.

Is that when she got her lobotomy?

[WinkyDink]

114. IRONIC?? I'd say it's unconscionably hypocritical, in retrospect.

[Milo40]

115. doing some fact checking people

Even today if you go across to Canada to receive Health Care, you are charged and billed for it. Only residents/citizens are eligible.

[polly7]

120. Not always. If you say you have none, you are still treated. n/t

[Milo40]

125. and you are billed, same as the US

it's illegal not to provide the care. In the US they don't turn away illegals either, they send them to another hospital or treat and bill them. Is that not correct?

I live in Canada, I'm pretty aware of how the system works.

[polly7]

128. Sometimes, sometimes not.

I live here also and we pick up people all the time who are transients or live in the streets, they have no health-care cards through their own fault for not applying, or haven't been in the province long enough to apply. And yes, they are treated - who the bill goes to I have no idea, as one of the first questions we ask after initial assessment is re insurance and in FACT have been told they have none. I believe the Fed. Gov't keeps a fund for cases like this, though I could be wrong.

[Milo40]

130. the taxpayer

the taxpayer pays the bill. The universal part is that they do not refuse service, to have the patient die in the street.

Canada has what you would call a "Single Payer System", it is managed by the provinces, with the Federal Government mandate "essential" services. Richer Provinces through transfer payments subsidize the cost in "poorer" provinces.

It is a redistribution of tax dollars through ottawa, to the provinces.

[polly7]

135. Well of course the taxpayer does, that is where Fed. funding comes

from, is it not? I know exactly what Canada has, but thanks. I'm not bothered a bit by paying a little extra so some 17 year old street-kid can receive treatment. Yes, a redistribution to the provinces to use as most required, ie more diagnostics, physicians, shortening wait-times, supplemented by Federal Funds. But thanks.

[Spazito]

129. Wow, were you at the Palinpalooza on Saturday?

I find it interesting you seem intent on defending her use of the Canadian healthcare system while ignoring her hypocrisy.

[Milo40]

131. What hypocricy?

Her family would have had to pay for it. If it can show me where they did not pay the bill, then I might agree with you that she took advantage of our system.

[polly7]

137. The hypocrisy of helping the Fraser Institute demonize healthcare

her own family used, to try to ruin ours in favour of the 'best' healthcare in the world. They all look fairly healthy, it certainly wasn't a death-penalty hospital they went to.

[Milo40]

143. What province do you live in?

I live in Alberta, we spend the most per capita on Health Care by Province. They have just put another billion into the system to reduce wait times for surgeries/MRIs etc. They were going to bump the MRIs up to 2500-3000 in six weeks, and did not purchase more MRI machines. Question? If they had the MRI/surgery capacity previous to this announcement, why were they not using them?

[polly7]

150. Maybe not enough technicians and specialists?

I live in Saskatchewan, I started as an EMT in Regina. Our transfer was mainly focused to reduce wait times, and it seems to be working. Manitoba had a serious lack of Radiologic Technicians, each province used the funds after many meetings deciding what was most needed. Apart from a possible lack of technicians and specialists, I have no idea why in your province. I do know that my nephew received state of the art surgery at two weeks of age in Edmonton with the top specialist in Canada. We're not that bad!
And we're recognizing our faults and working on them. Check out patient comments, they're happy when it comes to those polled for satisfaction with the treatment they've received. Or ignore it, your perogative.

[Milo40]

160. Have friends in Southern Sask.

She is a dual citizen and they live 5 miles from the Big Beaver crossing. Any emergencies, they skip across to the US and pay for the Health Care.

I'm not saying that Canada's system is not working, but it could be quite a bit better. But for the US citizens to get their hopes up that everything is going to be cheaper and the service is going to be the same is fooling themselves.

If you all at once have 30 million new insured, they are going to take advantage of those services more frequently than they would in emergency situations. It is impossible to have the same doctor to patient ratio, if you increase the insured by 30 million over night. If the ratio of doctors to patients drops, you will have longer waits.

How many doctors are baby boomers? They start to retire next year. Can they be replaced before their retirements have an affect on the ratio?

[polly7]

172. Really?

I live in southern Sask. and come from a family of 11, 9 of us kids with many children of their own - over 70 at Christmas all together - not ONE has skipped the border for anything but cheaper eyeglasses and dental.

Strange how that works.

Not ONE.

WE have a husband and wife team 20 minutes in one direction, probably in their 40's, another 2 doctors in their 40 and 50's the other direction. None have mentioned leaving, though rural SK is in need of more physicians. We're working on that.

But again ............. not ONE. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Milo40]

180. depends on the factors, I guess

location, etc.

I think she said that she is also down to the US, once a week to visit her mother?, but family anyway.

[polly7]

233. I was thinking about your post and wondering why anyone

would choose to pay over and above what they already do for services. What type of emergency are you talking about? We handle all types, even in the boonies in southern SK, trauma, medical ..... we have Lifeguard (air ambulance), great physicians, more diagnostic machines now than ever ..... they must be all dire emergencies and the hospital across the border quicker access, I'm guessing, because nearly every community has a clinic and the ability to transfer via ground or air.

[Spazito]

127. Charged and billed, not turned away because their bank account isn't big enough...

and many do not pay the bill afterward, unfortunately. You seem to miss the hypocrisy in Palin's words and actions which is the central issue. 'Do as I say not as I do' seems to be her mantra. Oh, and could you explain why the family didn't go to Juneau as it seems, according to Sarah herself, her brother was ferried to Juneau for treatment, coincidentally I am sure, on his burned foot?

BTW, welcome to DU! Was it the Palin hypocrisy that brought you here?

[Milo40]

133. No, the Health care debate

I showed up on DU to follow the Health Care debate. It seems that the US is bound and determined to re-invent the wheel. I'm pretty sure you won't be happy with the result.

[Spazito]

139. I am Canadian and it seems you support Palin's take on....

'socialized' healthcare when you state "It seems the US is bound and determined to re-invent the wheel. I'm pretty sure you won't be happy with the result."

The healthcare debate has been very fast and furious on DU for months now yet your posts are all regarding the defense of Palin. Hmmmm, interesting.

[Milo40]

145. Not true

Do you always jump to the conclusion that it is a Conspiracy?

Are you one of those people that run around chanting "911 was an inside job"?

[Spazito]

149. A rather pathetic attempt to insert a red herring there...

So, are you for the privatization of healthcare in Canada?

[polly7]

155. Transparent. n/t,

[Bolo Boffin]

134. I wonder...

Of course I know how I took these story the first couple of hours, but reading it again, I wonder if she means to point out to her base that other people will be hopping over the border to use our socialized health care system?

[Milo40]

138. Don't think so

When Canadians come to the US, we are charged for the service. Once Health Care reform goes through in the US you will have the same shortage of doctors that we do now. It won't be to our advantage.

[polly7]

140. When Canadians have to go to the U,S, most often their provincial

plan reimburses the costs.

And ...........for a long time now doctors in Ontario are saying up to 25% of their patients are from the U.S. Which of course does not help with the number of physicians able to take care of Canadians in the time it would take otherwise.

[Milo40]

144. tell the whole truth

It depends on the procedure.

Which is the difference with Insurance plans in the US. You can buy plans that cover more procedures etc, than you will get on a basic one.

Here in Canada the Federal Government determines what is covered and what is not. Then the Provinces can add on to that basic plan or not. I purchase Blue Cross over and above that, to be further covered.

The US has already began the process in the Stimulus bill. They have a commission that will decide which services are basic and will be covered. That's one question I have not heard asked yet in the US. What will either bill cover?

Here in Canada we have lifetime limits on some procedures, like hip replacements, then you have to pay out of pocket.

[polly7]

152. Well of COURSE it depends on the procedure.

Glasses, dental, cosmetic - none of that covered. Nor is any procedure that can be done in Canada without a wait that endangers the pt's life. Why do you keep asking me about the U.S. plan? I live in Canada. My Uncle has had two knee replacements - without extra cost. Emergent diagnostics and treatment have NO wait times. Elective surgeries do. He was quite willing to wait for his surgery knowing his name would come up after life-and-death treatment for those ahead of them. Of course those with the extra money who wish to jump the line have the option to go elsewhere. No-one faults them for that. Then yes, THEY should pay out of pocket or rely on supplemental insurance, doncha think?

[Milo40]

157. my uncle too

He's had 3. He had to pay for the third.

[polly7]

159. Oh. That's too bad. The pain is awful. But ......... I guess our

system can only handle so much. I hope he had supplemental insurance.

[Milo40]

171. don't think so

I don't think he did have supplemental. I think he toughed it out for as long as he could, trying to get over the time limit, so he could have it covered. He ended up skipping across the provincial border to ontario (he lived in Quebec), and payed the diference for being out of province.

[polly7]

173. Sorry to hear that, sometimes the pain gets too much to bear.

Hope he's doing well. But, if he had taken it to court, couldn't he have gotten reimbursed, especially when it was still in Canada? I have known people who've done that and been successful.

[Milo40]

187. I think that depends on province

doesn't it? I think it depends if they provide the service/treatment, and if they determine that the wait was justified etc. Not sure, I'd have to check that out to say with any certainty

[polly7]

178. Been fun, but gotta go. Maybe if you read a little on the stats and

polling that have been done you'll see the high pt. satisfaction, the higher life-expectancy, the improved provincial wait-times ............... not all the bad, as you seem to want to show. 87% (last time I checked) wouldn't trade what we have for anything. Those that wait realize there are life-and-death cases in line ahead and decide whether to take advantage of other options, or not. I don't see that as a bad thing, but carry on.

[Milo40]

201. only 72% in Alberta

and that stat. is from Alberta Health and Wellness.

I take it from some of your posts that you used to live in Ontario? I think it was you that I saw mention OHIP

I have one brother that is a Manager at the Ministry of Health, and another one that was a dispatcher in Ontario for EMS, but has since moved to Alberta for a job with the RCMP.

cheers

[polly7]

228. Well yeah, but I have many family members in Alberta who

would be just fine with privatization, makes me almost ashamed to admit it. Of course their satisfaction is lower, they just expect more, with all that oil money. jmo. No, the OHIP scandal was well-known and publicized, I've never lived there.

[MattBaggins]

254. Same here in the US with our POS insurance companies

I waited six weeks to get my gall bladder removed.
I wait a few weeks for many types of tests

Insurance company decides what procedures they feel like covering this week
Insurance companies decide on lifetime limits.

All this depends upon whether or not I have the right job and can end tomorrow.
At least with government we citizens can advocate for coverage being decided by a panel of doctors and public health specialist instead of a phone bank of people over in India who are given scripts by bean counters with two year associate degrees.

Now go away toad.

[earth mom]

141. Palin is thieving scum. She proved that when she took all those GOP clothes and lied about it

but this just takes the cake-may she burn in hell for it! :grr:

[lonestarnot]

147. Grifters will do anything to save a buck or steal one.

[Trajan]

163. Quite ironic ....

Much like the lunch bucket 'conservatives' who enjoyed public schools, collected Social Security checks, and sent their children to college with public grants - ALL thanks to progressives of years past ....

They bitch and moan about the 'Liberal Agenda', but every damned one prospered because of it ...

Fucking hypocrites ....

[pitchforksandtorches]

179. She's a dirty fucking commie I tell ya!

[Hubert Flottz]

213. I'll bet she went to the USSR too!

Too bad she never was treated at a good mental health clinic.

[Rhiannon12866]

214. Could she still see Russia from Canada?!

:crazy:

[yurbud]

199. bwahahaha!

[era veteran]

200. Grifter bitch of a generational grifter family

We would call her trash in Kentucky

[mwb970]

215. What. An. Idiot.

It's clear that $arah literally does not know what she is saying or what her words mean. Ironic! This gal wouldn't recognize irony if it shot at her from a helicopter.

:eyes:

[Blue_Tires]

220. "Palin is DUMB IDIOT"

[panzerfaust]

223. Too bad they did not stay. Eh?

[Spazito]

238. Grifter families are not needed, thanks anyway eh! n/t

[murphyj87]

241. Sarah Palin

OTTAWA — Sarah Palin should listen to her mother.

That was the advice from one MP Tuesday following the former U.S. vice-presidential hopeful’s revelation that her parents had sought medical treatment from the Canadian health-care system she has so often criticized.

“Of course her parents chose Canada for health care, it’s the best health-care system in the world,” said NDP health critic Judy Wasylycia-Leis. “Too bad Sarah Palin doesn’t realize it now.”

The comment came after Palin told a Calgary audience Saturday night that her family had first-hand experience with Canada’s health-care system when she was growing up in Skagway, Alaska, near Whitehorse.

“Believe it or not — this was in the ’60s — we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing, and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn’t that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada,” Palin was quoted as saying by The Canadian Press.

Liberal MP Carolyn Bennett, who is also a doctor, said the Palin family’s story is not unique.

“Certainly as a family doctor I treated lots of Americans.”

When she testified before a U.S. Senate committee in September, Bennett told the story of a U.S. Vietnam veteran who had to go to Canada for cancer treatment because he couldn’t afford medical care in the country he fought for.

Bennett said Palin should bear in mind the high cost of medical care is a leading cause of bankruptcies in the U.S.

“Criticizing our system isn’t helping her fellow Americans.”

[Spazito]

248. Excellent addition to the thread!

I love that Members of Parliament are speaking up, they are right on point.

[wordpix]

249. THIS is the irony but she's too stupid to comprehend that

What a dolt

[murphyj87]

252. Sarah again

[murphyj87]

253. One more Sarah