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The abyss Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:59 PM
Original message
U.S. soldier 'waterboarded his own daughter, 4, because she couldn't recite alphabet'
Source: Daily Mail

A U.S. soldier has been accused of 'waterboarding' his four-year-old daughter because she couldn't recite the alphabet.
Joshua Tabor admitted to police that he used the CIA torture technique because he was so angry.
As his daughter 'squirmed' to get away, Tabor said he submerged her face - upwards - three or four times until the water was lapping around her forehead and jawline.
Tabor, 27, admitted to investigators that his daughter was terrified of water and he had deliberately chosen the punishment.

Break

The practice of waterboarding has been used by the CIA to break Al Qaeda suspects at Guantanamo Bay and at secret prisons.
Detainees, including the mastermind of the 9/11 terror attacks Khalid Shaikh Mohammed had water poured over their face until they feared they were about the drown.
President Barack Obama has since outlawed the practice.
Tabor, a soldier at a base in Tacoma, Washington, flew into a rage after his daughter was unable to recite her ABC's.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1249191/Soldier-father-accused-waterboarding-daughter-4-recite-alphabet.html
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Where was the mother?
If she is alive, she should get sole custody.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Not if she was there and allowed it to happen, she shouldn't
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
118. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bkohatlanta Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
126. Charge her too
AMAZING!
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
141. Not if she was there
Yes.

Why is it people assume children are always better off with their parents and family? Nothing could be further from the truth.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
156. The Mother is in Kansas............
A COURT OF LAW granted custody of this child to her father.................so much for justice!
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #156
172. More info? If a court awarded custody to father, mother must have been a problem too
Knee jerking without getting info on context is not in a child's best interest either.
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
177. article says she lives in Kansas
and that the father was granted full custody. Makes you wonder what the mother is like.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #177
183. I was thinking the same thing
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. In Kansas, apparently
From the local news story: "Carlson said the childs biological mother lives in Kansas."

The link was provided by someone downthread:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/partners/theolympian/story/1054799.html

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vegiegals Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. The mother is the one who called the police....................

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_dunking_daughter.html

The News Tribune of Tacoma reports his girlfriend called police to their home in Yelm Sunday because Tabor had dunked his daughter's head in the kitchen sink.

The child is now in custody of Child Protective Services. She had bruises on her back and scratch marks on her neck and told police, "Daddy did it."

Tabor was released from jail Monday after posting $10,000 bail and is restricted to Joint Base Lewis-McChord.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
91. Wrong.
The mother lives in Kansas. The girlfriend is not the mother. Tabor had been granted full custody of the child after his divorce which says to me the girl's mother might have some serious issues, too. :(
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vegiegals Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #91
159. ah, yes, I see it is the girlfriend. Thanks for the correction. But, for
the child's sake, I am glad she cared enough to call the police.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #159
181. Agreed!
At least someone in the house has a brain and/or conscience. Plus, if he's waterboarding the child, god only knows what he's done to his girlfriend. :(
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yava Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
125. probably one of four possibilities
1) he is a drug addict or alchoholic.
2) his mind got broken at war.
3) he is a former severely abused child.
4) somewhere in his mind he thinks she is not her biological daugher.
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WhoIsNumberNone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #125
130. 5)
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 11:34 PM by WhoIsNumberNone
He's a die-hard right-wing true believer, who drinks the 'water boarding is not torture' Koolaid.

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lbrtbell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #130
169. 6)
He's a psycho who got his start by pulling wings off flies, then started tormenting cats and/or dogs, then grew up to be Father Of The Year
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #125
184. I know you're not excusing his behavior...
...but I'd just like to point out that many people who are drug addicts or alcoholics--don't abuse and
terrorize their children. Also, many people arrive home from war--and deal with even more traumatic
events--and they don't abuse their children. Furthermore, many people who are abused as children, do not
grow up to be abusers.

And lastly...many people raise children who are not their biological children (adoption, foster care) and
that doesn't cause most of them to be abusers.

I'd just like to point out that abusing a child in this horrific, deliberate, unconscionable way--is inexcusable.
No matter what a person has endured in their life (abuse, PTSD from war, stress, etc) there is NEVER, EVER any
excuse for doing this. Abusers should be punished to the full extent of the law, regardless of WHY they did it.

Abusing children is a choice.

Especially this abuse--which was well thought out, and took planning and a great deal of time to conduct. This
was torture.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #184
192. He should be shot.
Yeah, he won't be and I'm agruing the law should allow it. I'm just saying in this case that's what ought to happen. Anyone who thinks this kind of thing is ever acceptable, let alone on his own 4-yr.-old child, is never going to be fixed.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #125
200. Another possibility
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 01:35 PM by Enthusiast
5) He is simply a typical Republican who after adopting a Dick Cheney worldview decided water boarding a four year old was a perfectly appropriate teaching method.
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Suich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
152. Welcome to DU, vegiegals!
I hope you enjoy it here as much as I do!






:hi:
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vegiegals Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #152
212. thanks. hope I will.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
198. She better learn the ABCs!
:sarcasm:
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Please tell me this is untrue. I have a 4 year old. They are notoriously inconsistent
in their learning patterns and easily traumatized. I just can't believe anyone would stoop that low to their own child. I feel upset when I have to raise my voice just a little bit.
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activa8tr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. Not trying to answer you question, just want to say you are right
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 05:55 PM by activa8tr
This shows some people who become parents are not qualified for the job, and still, just because they have sperm to impregnate a woman, they assume they are qualified parents?

This guy needs a year in prison, then something to knock down his ego, and teach him how to parent a child, and he should pay for his child's therapy for the rest of her life.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
138. A year in prison? The guy should be castrated!!
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #138
196. I don't think prison or castration will help with memorizing the alphabet...

...but I'm no expert.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #196
213. No it won't. But it will ensure he'll never be able to father children ever again!!
Men who do this kind of thing should not be allowed to father children EVER AGAIN!!
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yava Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
132. I was too tough with my second son about math questions when he was 12
he is 17 now and our relation still suffers from my excesses.
Of course no violence but verbal humiliation which I will regret for ever.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #132
143. I'm sure it was nothing compared to some of the sick shit I've read recently (including
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 12:41 AM by Lorien
the OP). Yesterday I read about one mother who forced her 7 year old son to kill his pet hamster with a hammer because his grades were too low. There are many people out there who simply shouldn't breed. :-(
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karmkay Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #143
180. hamster
Or be allowed to roam around loose.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #180
204. ??? I wasn't making a comparison between the OP and the hamster story
And what does "being able to roam loose" have to do with anything? If the mom who forced her son to kill his pet turns him into a deranged sociopath he won't be "roaming loose" for long. The mother in the hamster story and the dad in the OP are both unfit as parents.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #132
149. And I'm sure it didn't do anything to further his interest in math, either. n/t
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yava Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #149
158. no of course it had the opposite effect
talking about my verbal humiliation of my son when he was 12
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #158
215. I assume you've told him how sorry you are?
My father was verbally abusive, but the one thing that would have made a difference is if he had ever been able to say he was sorry. FWIW, I think that your ability to say that to your son means that your relationship will heal. Unfortunately, before it does you might have to put up with hearing some more anger from him.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #132
190. Have you apologized?
I have sat in support groups for adults who were abused as children. The one thing
they crave is an apology and an admission from the parent that it was not their fault.

When children are young--they blame themselves for the treatment they get. The blame is
directly proportional to the harshness they received. It is a coping mechanism to blame
themselves. Blaming the parent is just too painful--because they are so dependent on the
parent. It's frightening to them. So, they grow up believing that they are stupid, bad
or worthless and they hold onto those beliefs--to survive.

Even if your kids are grown--they need to hear that you were wrong, that you are sorry and
that what happened to them was not their fault. It is the first step in their own healing.

To heal, the adult must begin to erase all of the "I'm not worthy" messages. They can do it
on their own--without an apology or admission from the parent. But it takes years. Believe me,
I've seen it.

I can't tell you how valuable an apology and admission is--and how healing it is to hear, "It was not your fault.
You were good and wonderful...I was just impatient and made bad decisions."

You may have made mistakes in the past, but you can help to heal your son and yourself--by doing this,
if you haven't all ready.

I wish you the best. We all make mistakes as parents.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #190
191. Apology can lead to forgiveness, and the combination is a very powerful healing force.
I know a situation where a woman was viciously abused over a long period at a very early age. She didn't even remember it until the abuser died, so there is no possibility of a face to face reconciliation. She is working so hard to heal herself with forgiveness, awareness and compassion, but how much easier would the path have been if she had been able to hear him say, "I'm sorry for what I did. It wasn't your fault."
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Laura902 Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sicko n/t
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Demoiselle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. Yes. Very very mentally ill. That poor little girl.
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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh my god.
That poor child.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. 'Can-do' mind set, bizarre cultural 'norms', tacit approval of torture, drugs?
What the hell have they done to the troops?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. My very thought. what have we created?
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. This is a tradgedy. Even the dad, how far from normal have they pushed him? How many tours?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
73. That's something I think about when I hear stories like this -
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 07:54 PM by truedelphi
How many tours did this guy go through?

And now the PTSD and the insanity will be forced out on our society - the kids and spouses of these people enduring the torture and the abuse, also road rage, the suicides.

But whatever happens, as a nation, let's make sure that we never give PEACE a chance, cuz peace is only for wimpy nations.
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Tumbulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #73
103. You always write the perfect responses
my thought entirely. The price paid for there outrageous adventures goes on for generations.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #103
202. Thank you. I've had a long time to think abt this one.
My first husband had one tour of duty in Vietnam.

A simple but talented and intelligent soul, of the many people I have known, he was the least angry of all of us. And during his tour, he never had to kill anyone - he was in an engineering platoon and built things like bridges.

But he had PTSD rages that could be set off by minor things - a flash of cop car lights through our windows, loud noises, etc.

One minute we'd be having tea and talking about our love for each other, and the next thing was, I'd be thrown across the room while he was in black out mode.

Doctors knew nothing about brain chemistry and brain functioning then. But they know a lot now.

But the easiest way to deal with the PTSD problem is to not send people over to kill other people.

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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. We would likely be horrified to know all the things that go on behind closed doors
Children are so vulnerable. I recall a case when I was living in San Antonio--a woman punished her daughter by tethering her to the bed and forcing her to eat jalapeno peppers when she back-talked her. She tried to excuse it by saying jalapeno peppers were part of her culture, but she was still charged and convicted of child abuse.
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. My first thought was echoed in the body of your post
What the hell have they done to the troops?

Wartime creates conditions that strip away the thin veneer of civilization, and that's why I always consider war to be a LAST resort - as opposed to the neocons who view war as the solution everything.
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
109. pick up a history book
and start to read read read. You'll see a god awful pattern here.

I.E. WAR IS EVIL!

:kick:

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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #109
207. Aw, you're just trying to scare us with that truth pertains nonsense.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
62. Nothing they didn't already do for the past 100 years...
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #62
87. I call BS on that. Psy-ops much more effective anymore
and more is understood about psycho-active drugs and mood altering drugs. It's not your granddad's military now.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
64. We've not done this to the troops
The sheer number of US troops, hundreds of thousands, come to the military at 18 years, insures that there will be horrific stories as there are in virtually every city in the world. This type of damage was done wayyyy before this bozo joined up.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. please tell me this child will never see that man again/nt
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. That's the easy solution. The real solution is therapy until he finds his way back from the mental
pit the Army has put him in. This is shades of the Vietnam era Army family. I know. Beatings were common.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. More mental health care for military is extremely urgent.
Having been involved with Viet Nam vets, some with more severe issue than others, it is urgent and necessary.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
75. Sadly, she probably loves him very much. I've seen kids who have been sexually and/or physically
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 08:08 PM by No Elephants
abused by a parent or parent figure (mom's live in bf who's been around since the kid was an infant, for example). After they've been separated from the parent, most kids want very much to see the parent, at least when the kid is as young as 4. The parent has been the source of survival for the kid, the one souce of good things, as well as bad things.

It's like every dysfunctional relationship you've had in your life rolled up into one, then raised to the tenth power. The kid often accepts that it is his or her fault, and if they could just do better.....

The hope that it will finally be better next time is powerful.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #75
140. At age 4, you'd assume that whatever was happening was SUPPOSED to happen
And(horribly)you might even think it was YOUR fault if it was done to you.

I hope that's not the case with this child, but she needs a lot of counselling to recover from this.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Cheney says it's not torture, so he should only get a light sentence
:eyes:
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Betty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Cheney would give this guy a medal
fuckhead that he is.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. the nuclear family strikes again (n/t)
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lbrtbell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
173. But whatever you do, don't let gays adopt!!
:sarcasm:

Somehow, I imagine that a kindly gay or lesbian couple wouldn't traumatize that little girl the way this "father that every child needs in his/her life" has. :mad:
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kee-rist.
There's one kid who's gonna be afraid of faucets, sinks and tubs for the rest of her life. Nice going, Dad.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
82. Worse, she'll fear relationships, loving someone, etc. I doubt this was the only time he's been
abusive. you don't wake up one day and decide to waterboard a 4 year old who fears water for not being able to recite the alphabet--and I wonder how she got her fear of water in the first place?
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PSzymeczek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #82
124. My daughter, for some reason, was afraid of baths
since birth. Her father, however, made her afraid of water, sinks, etc, for years, by showing her "The Incredible Shrinking Woman" when she was three.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Daily Fail, people . . .
search for the story and ask yourself why no other news org has picked it up.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. It does appear in a local paper too
They use his full name:

A man is accused of holding his 4-year-old daughter's head under the water in the kitchen sink at their Yelm home Sunday night because she would not recite the alphabet, according to police and court papers.

The Thurston County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office filed a charge of second-degree assault of a child against Joshua Ryan Tabor, 27, on Tuesday. His arraignment is scheduled for Feb. 16.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/partners/theolympian/story/1054799.html


Also an AP report in the Seattle paper: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_dunking_daughter.html
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The abyss Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks for finding that one!
I missed it.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
66. Hello? The posters tracked down more sources for you
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #66
99. Hello? Perhaps if the OP had done that the first time,
I wouldn't have posted what I did . . .
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #99
127. lol
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #66
174. And thanks to them...actually Enlightenment is right to be sceptical about info from the Daily Mail
That newspaper is run by the British versions of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, plus an element of Tom Tancredo, with a bit of pure sensationalism mixed in. The paper has verious nicknames in Britain: Hate-Mail, Daily Hate, Daily Heil, Daily Fail and Daily Lie.

But sometimes they happen to pull something from a valid source, as seems to be the case here.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
72. Well, the Associated Press isn't known for making things up.
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 07:56 PM by Jamastiene
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #72
166. The AP does make things up
They are not what they once were. The Army Times, however, simply wouldn't cover this story at all if there were not something to it. If they cover a story such as this one that shows that all is not goodness and light, then you know it's not simply fictional.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
206. Because the other news org's think waterboarding is fine?
:shrug:
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sad
It's sad that a very stupid war based on lies and propaganda would be the reason this terror was inflicted on this child by her father. Growing up, the phrase; "Wow, that's going to mess up her head a long time" is the way my lazy mind wants to put this.

Americans cannot comprehend the horror that is war. And they cannot connect our war to the violence inflicted on this innocent child.

I met a stripper who told me her boyfriend is back from Iraq and cannot remember anything longer than thirty minutes!

All this human sacrifice and what good did this war do anybody, besides the military industrial congressional complex?

-90% Jimmy
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Oh, I can connect it, all right.
I just don't think it justifies it, either.

Horrible situation all around.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
58. Many Americans can so comprehend just fine. We have Vets even from WWII yet.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
208. I know two WWII vets who came back and were "never themselves" again.
Their wives supported the families and tried to make the best life they could or their families.

People didn't talk to much about it other than to say how smart the one used to be and what a go-getter he was when he was in high school. And they said that the other one had a great personality and that "everyone like to be around him" when he was in high school.

I don't know the details about their service or what they encountered. I know that they were broken men.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
100. This guy was never deployed.
So, no excuses.
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lbrtbell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #15
176. I'd have to know about his past before making judgment
The chances are very good that he's like every abusive father who hasn't been to war: A bully and a tyrant who resorts to violence to get his way.

If he's never done such a thing before, then yeah, it's the result of the war. HOWEVER, if he's been violent before going to war, then it's just something inside him. :(
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. The guy is fucked up, and we are making plenty more.
And just making him evil wont stop it. The guy, and tons more, need help, before they crack.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. And conservatives want the people responsible for torture to get off scot-free
Remember, these people might be your neighbors.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. Turn him loose with a tattoo on his face saying what he did. (n/t)
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. This is a side effect of sending our young people off to kill Iraqi's and Afghani's. nt
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. forgive them, for they know not, what they do. You are right. Do we want to enjoy pointing
at the bad man, or help? Plenty of people see this stuff as an episode of cops. To fix it, we need do better by our troops than teaching them positve thinking, instead of treatment for PTSD's.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Teach troops "positive thinking" rather than treating them for PTSD?
Do you seriously believe "positive thinking" is an effective prevention or treatment for PTSD?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
74. I think it was intended to mean the opposite. nt
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. Thank you. Reread it and I was wrong. Sorry. Thanks for catching me.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. no prob. I read it that way first also. How are you uppity?
How are things in PT? I did have some PT beer at Anthony's in Bremerton.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #84
120. The economy has struck here.
Boat company finished a big job, no new one so bunch of layoffs. Place I work has had low census so some layoffs. Other than that, it has been beautiful, sunny, glad to have time to work in the garden. Went to PT brewery with a sib recently and had some smoky peepinator dark beer. Yum.

How are you doing?
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. All kinds of people abuse children
Doesn't matter if they're military or civilian.

Goddess help this poor child find safety and healing.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
80. I certainly do not disagree. One way to help reduce domestic violence is to stop sending our young
people to kill in foreign countries. Three children die every day as a result of our occupation of Afghanistan. These soldiers must return home and be normal. That's a lot to ask. Stop unnecessary wars.

It would also help greatly if our vets got better treatment for PTSD.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
29. Makes we wonder why his little girl is "terrified" of water
in the first place. They both need a lot of help now.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. Well, a 4 year old *should* be able to recite the alphabet
:evilgrin:
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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Why? n/t
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. so you are saying this sick individual was justified?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Oy vey
:eyes:
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lutherj Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #40
55. The pious know no sarcasm.
:eyes:
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #55
86. Sarcasm is tricky on the Internets. They should have at least given the benefit of the doubt. nt
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #55
107. asking questions for clarity is about piety?
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
106. did you see the question mark at the end? you know, like the one ending the previous question?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
60. Do you not get the TONE here? Look inside the post.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #60
108. since I actually know people who think that way, I was simply asking
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. Dittohead, no doubt. And Beck/Palin fan, too.
They have anger issues. Big time.
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pettypace Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
32. If a story sounds too absurd and provocative to be true...
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 05:54 PM by pettypace
...it is.

Ignore and move on.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Ever work in CPS?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. That certainly makes for a cleaner, simpler reality, I suppose. (nt)
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
45. The guy admitted doing it. I suppose you think it's ok to TORTURE
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 06:38 PM by kestrel91316
4-yr-olds?

IMHO this guy was told by a few too many RWers in power that waterboarding was perfectly ok to do.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
71. Well, the Associated Press isn't known for making things up.
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 07:59 PM by Jamastiene
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
88. Unfortunately, extreme child abuse is quite true -- although hopefully rare.
People with attitudes like yours have helped countless abusers continue their abuse.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #88
214. Rare? Sometimes I wonder.
I come from an upper middle-class, university-educated family. We're not trailer trash. Nevertheless...

A male partner of one of my in-laws has an absolutely horrific history of merciless abuse at the hands of his step-father, including beatings, captivity and psychological torture, throughout his childhood and teenage years. A woman I know very well was continuously sexually abused from the age of two to 15, by two adult family members in sequence. I was at a party once where all of the five women had experienced one or more of sexual abuse, sexual assault or outright rape. A female family member of mine was drugged and raped by one of her room-mate's friends, and when he was done he left the condom inside her to find when she came to.

What is wrong with us? Is it our gender, our genetics, our culture, what?
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
209. So for the record do you think THIS story is true? n/t
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. these lyrics popped into my brain
they're so good at making soldiers but they're not so good at making men

So heartbreaking :cry: the poor little thing.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
41. so he isn't even an overseas veteran; PTSD can't be used as an excuse.
The guy is just a mean bastard.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
43. I find this very hard to believe. Will wait for verification.
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. see post #20
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Here.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
63. Well? Was it verified enough for you?
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. Another link:
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cindyperry2009 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
44. Please telle me
this douchebag no longer has custody and is in a jailcell.
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spicegal Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
46. Oh my God. How could someone do that to a child?
I have two children and can honestly say I only lost it with my son once when he was about that age. I gave him about 4 wacks on the bottom, and not that hard. My husband was out of town at the time, and my son had plucked my last nerve. Afterwards, I was so wracked with guilt, I called my husband in tears. I do understand getting angry, and even losing your temper, but to do something cruel and hurtful is beyond my comprehension. And to get angry because a 4 year old can't recite the alphabet is just ridiculous.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
49. Jesus FUCK - - I'm fucking speechless...
I can't say anything snide, snarky or anything about this...

Just...

....
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
51. Hey bush and cheney... this is all in your lap.
You will burn in hell right here on earth assholes. Everyone knows you caused this.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
52. who could imagine? Dick Cheney? would he be proud? did the daughter
give up the alphabet secrets?
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
53. These are the kind of psychopaths the military encourages & has doing it's interrogations
Will we ever get away from those ugly, lying, disgraceful sick Bush/Cheney years?
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
56. if the cons are to be believed, ....
..she would have recited the alphabet perfectly after that...
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. Plain old fashioned child abuse,& shd be prosecuted as such. Some abusers have always used torture
Abusive parents have been known to use both fire and water to "punish" and "teach" their little ones; the only thing new is the name.

Unless he can be proven to be suffering from PTSD, there are no excuses for this sorry SOB. And even if he does have PTSD, this behavior is pretty much a deal-breaker in parenting, in my book.

How the hell did he ever get custody of this baby away from her own mother?

Hekate

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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. That is the question I have. Why did he get custody?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #57
89. You can get custody away from the mother if she's a drug user.
That's one possibility.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #89
146. Or if you divorce her while she is so ill from cancer that she can't provide care, then move
Not all mothers without primary physical custody are bad people or drug users.

Tucker
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #146
148. True enough. nt
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
59. Child abuse - but this time with a lack of creativity some abusers employ
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
61. THIS is the result of abusive behavior -- insanity!!
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heliarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
65. Calm down people...
Maybe the child had information about a ticking time bomb.

After all John Yoo says that it's not torture, so it should be fine to practice on your children

:sarcasm:

Incredible. I wonder if that guy actually believed that nonsense they were told about it not being torture.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
67. I'm sure he did it in 'good faith'
Sickening
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #67
77. He probably thought it was "what Jesus would do".
"Spare The 'board, spoil the child".
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anachro1 Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
69. Sanity break
Don't you just LOVE what this country has become?
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John Kerry VonErich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
70. delete
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 07:48 PM by John Kerry VonErich
nt
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
78. uh-oh! PTSD!! n/t
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #78
211. Not necisarily, it could just be regular old child abuse.
Let's not pretend we know what caused this until we have something to base it on. Sure it could be the guy has PTSD... could be he never experienced anything worse than a drill instructor. Could be he was abused as a child... could be not.
Why make unfounded assumptions.
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benld74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
79. But his guvinmint said it was not torture to do this
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
83. this guy should spend the rest of his life in prison. nt
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #83
94. Same guy had his Kevlar helmut on threatening to break windows.

He's mentally ill. He definitely shouldn't be around his little girl in this condition. But I think life in prison is too much and misses the point.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
85. I always tell right-wingers this when they defend torture.
They may not give a damn about the lives and well-being of "foreigners," but if our troops use torture abroad, they will come home and use it here, including on their own family members.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
90. Interesting that severalsimply decide it's either not true or probably not true, without
even trying to check further.

Denial is easier than being in reality, I guess.



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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
92. And another friggin thing about a PTSD soldier, Thats not classic waterboarding.
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
93. Left for war, came back with a monster in his head.

So, how do we unbend this guy, now? And we're manufacturing them.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
95. Dear judge who ruled "daddy" should have custody -
What criteria were you using? Really, I mean, was the mother SUCH a bad risk that it was clear a monster like this got dibs over this child? The fucking alphabet?

Did daddy ever have a diagnosis of post traumatic stress after two theaters of the kind of wars we've been sending people to. I believe after a while, some of the cease to be people any more.

I hope this puts your judicial nuts in a vise. Jesus Christ, what kind of society are we creating where everything you see in the theater or video game is filled with unjustified violence.

Never fucking mind... just get off the bench and take that fucking robe with you.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
96. Where's Lynn and Dick Cheney to defend this?
I'm sure this is just fine with them.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
97. How is pushing his daughter's face into a bowl of water like waterboarding? This isn't clear to me.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. Here is an article with more detail about what he and his girlfriend did.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/partners/theolympian/story/1054799.html

Tabor spoke to a Yelm police officer and said that he and his girlfriend had held her down on the counter and submerged her head into the water three or four times until the water came around her forehead and jawline. He said that she was face-up when her head was in the water. He added that they gave this punishment for the 4-year-old refusing to say her letters.

Tabor told police that his daughter is afraid of water and was squirming around trying to get away from the water. Joshua did not act as though he felt there was anything wrong with this form of punishment.


<snip>

It might not be waterboarding but it's definitely torture.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #102
182. Thanks for that.
I was under the impression he was pushing her face into the water.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #97
113. You need to look into what waterboarding is then..obviously...
you have no idea.
Both are partially drowning the victim and making them think they are dying..and causing them to choke and gag and vomit etc because of the water as well.
They are both torture.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
98. fucking damn it all to hell. look what we have become.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
101. Ha ha ha just a frat prank! No harm done, ha ha ha. Oh, what a card!
:sarcasm:
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burrfoot Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
104. This guy is sick, no question.
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 09:30 PM by burrfoot
And, in my opinion, should never have custody of his daughter again.

But I think it may be reading too much into it- and giving him too much credit- to assume that he did this because he had somehow been convinced that it "wasn't torture." He knows it's torture, whatever Cheney or anybody else says. You know it's torture. I know it's torture. Whether or not to use it is a question to argue- what it truly is, though, is clear to everyone.

This guy is a douchebag child abuser. Did war make him that way? Maybe. If he'd never heard of waterboarding, though, I'll bet you he'd have done something else fucked up and sadistic- maybe tied her to a chair in the closet and left her until she "remembered" the alphabet?

My point here is that he knew what he was doing. He didn't think it was ok; he fucking snapped and did something that he knows is fucked up.

Get him therapy, meds, whatever he needs (mostly time and counseling, in my opinion); don't let him around his kid anymore until she's 18 and can decide for herself.

Don't, though....don't give this guy a pass and pretend he didn't know it was wrong because he's been told waterboarding isn't torture.


Just my .02, of course.

*Edits for typos*
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
105. "admitted....
...to investigators that his daughter was terrified of water and he had deliberately chosen the punishment."

....this is one sick, evil motherfucker....arrest him, give him a fair trial, then waterboard him....
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
110. We will all pay the wages war for decades to come.
The selection of an illegitimate president in 2000 by a corrupt Supreme Court set us on a collision course with history.

Conservatives will rationalize a father water boarding his daughter because they can not allow themselves to admit that this barbaric act is indeed torture.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
111. Oh that poor baby!
This is so terrible it makes me feel sick.
This is what you get when you make torture acceptable in any degree or for anyone.
I hope that child gets away from that bastard and gets the help she needs.
I am fairly sure the mom is just as battered with that kind of mind-set.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
112. He was probably teaching her this alphabet.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
114. WTF!!??
:wow: :grr:

How the hell could somebody do that to a child!!?? Their child!!??
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
115. What a scumbag!
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
116. What the fuck?
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
117. This is what war does to people.
There's no such thing as a good or just war. This is what it does to both sides.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
119. Not sure if this is PTSD or blatant sadism, but its abuse in either case.
pretty messed up.
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PSzymeczek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
121. Let's call it what it is.
Child Abuse.
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #121
131. I totally agree. n/t
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Suji to Seoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
122. But. . .but. . .but this isn't torture. Fixed Noise told me so
Dick Cheney told me so.

John You wrote and told me so.

It was just harmless fraternity prank humor. . .nothing.

And if it was torture, well. . .it was just one isolated wackjob.

Nothing more to see here. . .American Idol and 24 are on. Go get scared and melt your brains.

:sarcasm:
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
123. Incarcerate him for the rest of his life.
Period.

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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
128. Yep, by god, Everyone who gets pregnant SHOULD be parents.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #128
154. Gawd never gets it wrong. eom
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riskpeace Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
129. It's not for me to say, but
wtf would recommend this?
Sad times indeed.
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
133. I assume they will lose custody of this child?
Torturing children, at least white American children, is still against the law, isn't it? I know that torturing brown non-American children is A-OK with many of the public.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
134. SICK!
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 11:55 PM by Joe Bacon
That fool should be locked up for the rest of his life.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
135. So?
It's not torture and apparently it's ok, so I don't see what the big deal is ?

I bet the little shit knows her abc's now!


:sarcasm:
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
136. A natural consequence of lowering the bar
When all of a sudden things like this become permissible, then it lowers the bar across the board for all sorts of things and coarsens our society by making such unthinkable things - thinkable.

The neo cons and neo fascists are the root cause of this
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
137. Sick, sick motherfucker!!!
What kind of parent does something like this? This guy should be castrated to make sure he NEVER can father another child!!
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wial Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
139. now if only we can get Roger Ailes
that mad at Sean Hannity...
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Flagrante Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
142. But Bush said torture is OK.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
144. Child abuse = Frat pranks.... (hurl)
Want to leverage one quarter of women, and one sixth of men, really fast?

Point out that the right doesn't think that child abuse *hurts*.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
145. So why aren't Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Yoo, Bybee and the rest in jail?
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 01:18 AM by Octafish
They tortured millions.
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wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #145
153. They're Richer And MUCH More Important Than This Guy
The Lynndie England trial should have told us that only the grunts get punished. Accountability isn't meant for those who rule us :puke:
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
147. Waterboarding really does reflect badly on America.
Anti-American sentiment in the Islamic world is fueled by human rights abuses in Guantanamo.

And people are reading this worldwide and saying, "THAT's what they call 'traditional values' in America?"
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
150. somewhere in Cali John Yoo is stroking himself while reading this story...
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BluDemocratGirl Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
151. Lock his ass up!
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
155. Dear God what is happening to people?
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
157. Get that child
out of that lunatics home. He does not deserve to be called a parent. As an "Army Brat", I saw too many of these brainwashed (by the Army) psychopaths. My Dad was a Drill Instructor until I was 12. He was strict, but not psychopathic. We do not need "heterosexual" (homosexual either) people like this "protecting us." People like this and they think that DADT is acceptable??? :wtf:
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carla Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #157
160. America,
a nation of torturers...sinking lower still.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
161. Anyone who grew up in the military knows this not too far outside the norm
For every one of these incidents that make it to light probably thousands more go unreported and unnoticed. Military life makes people mean and keeps them angry. I believe for many people, just the trauma and abuse suffered in boot camp can be sufficient to induce PTSD.
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PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #161
193. I disagree, and I'm currently in the military and grew up in an Army family
I'm an Army brat, and currently an Air Force officer. Growing up in a military family, and then being in the military, does not make you "mean" and keep you "angry".

I went through Army basic training, Army Warrant Officer Candidate School, and then Air Force Officer Training School. I do not have PTSD. Anyone who claims that would probably break down and get PTSD if they had a boss in any civilian job hurt their feelings. Please...that's a bunch of BS.

I've known many military families very well all my life. I've only known one instance where the father was abusive, and honestly, he would have probably been abusive regardless of his career choice. Most of my friends grew up normal lives, and were not abused or neglected. In fact, other than my parents divorcing when I was in high school, my childhood was pretty great.

My two sons aren't abused or neglected either. They are growing up just fine.
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burrfoot Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #193
199. Glad to get the opinion of someone actually
in the service, here on this thread. Thanks for doing what you do and for reminding people that a broad brush doesn't paint any group of people fairly.



:toast:
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #193
218. Personal experiences vary.
Edited on Tue Feb-09-10 08:13 AM by MindPilot
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PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #218
219. Perhaps they do, but you'd think in 37 years of living in and around the military
I'd notice that this guy's behavior "wasn't too far outside the norm"...in fact this guy's behavior was well outside the norm. I've known many, many military families as both a dependent and a member of the military all my life, and from the perspective of two branches (Air Force and Army). I can't speak for the Navy/Marines but I'd be willing to bet it isn't much different. I think if the concept of military fathers drowning and beating their family members wasn't "too far outside the norm" I would have noticed and/or known many families that were dysfunctional and abusive. I only knew one that was what I'd call abusive, and a few that had some odd dysfunctional behaviors. But for the most part, most military families are pretty normal (with regard to non-military families).

The poster who made that comment said people who serve in the military are always angry and mean, but that's not the case. Again, all my coworkers, most of my friends, and many, many others that I come into contact with every day are military or military dependents. I'd be one to know if they were always "angry and mean".
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
162. We've created a generation of monsters. nt
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
163. what a sick bastard!!!
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Capt. America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
164. Do onto him...the same.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
165. The asshole father admits to having done this before:
"Stancil said Tabor had admitted to using this means of punishment three to four times.

Police found the little girl locked in a bathroom with bruises on her back and scratch marks on her neck and throat.

Asked how she got the bruises, the girl is said to have replied, "Daddy did it."

...


The girl, who was not identified, had been in Tabor's court-ordered custody for about a month and a half."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/02/08/2010-02-08_us_soldier_joshua_taber_waterboarded_his_daughter_4_because_she_couldnt_recite_a.html

Read more at the link ~~ supposedly the girlfriend was reported to have helped the asshole hold the child under the water ... and this couple have a child together.

OMFG......:puke: :grr:
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
167. nutcase. nt
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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
168. why do we have to go to Great Britain to read this?
thanks OP, for sharing this with us. I live near that base..
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #168
170. You don't in fact - see Muriel Volestrangler's post 20 for other more local sources
I would never trust anything from the Daily Hate-Mail (Britain's answer to Rush Limbaugh's talk-show) if it were not corroborated elsewhere; but sadly this is.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
171. I've got a stomachache after reading this. Thanks for all of your comments. Devastating for the
child, for sure.  Hope they find her a good home. 
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
175. Solid conservative family values!
'Nuff said. After all, Fox News and Dick Cheney have asserted time and time again that it's not actually 'torture'.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
178. Disgusting.
But sadly, sadly not shocking.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
179. "Spare the Waterboarding...Spoil the Child" n/t
J
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
185. She's too young for fraternity pranks.
:sarcasm:
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
186. The slippery slope gets more slippery. kr nt
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
187. Christian Republicans/Conservatives say it isn't torture because we do it to our own...
Clearly, he was just being a good Christian Republican/Conservative and following his faith.

Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."
Hebrews 12:6-7: "...the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?"

It doesn't mention waterboarding, but I am sure that in some of the lost books of the bible God said "Dunk the little shit you want, just don't drown the little fucker."

This guy should be put away and never see the light of day. But the entire Conservative establishment has made water boarding a virtue and this is what comes out of false virtue.
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Spoonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
188. And yet to my suprise.......
There are still people here that want to abolish the death penalty!

This guy should be castrated and then hung!
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fan of the arts Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
189. "Harmless prank", let's move on to health care and Palin
Isn't a WH lawyer going to defend this poor guy? LOL.
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perdita9 Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
194. Support the Troops?
Not when they do crap like this. I hope this creep goes to prison for a long time.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
195. This is why Bush, Cheney and the rest of their ilk need to be prosecuted NOW!!!
Not that it would deter this malefactor, but it would send a clear signal that THIS BEHAVIOR IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!
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PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #195
216. I don't see the political connection...
1) The guy wasn't "waterboarding" his child...he was attempting to drown her.

2) This guy apparently never deployed, and was likely a violent person before joining the military. Simply joining the military doesn't make a person violent.

3) The only way you could draw a political connection was if the guy was actually waterboarding his daughter and stated that he though it was ok because the government did it. But he didn't do either of those things.

This guy is very simply an abusive father, period. The fact that he is in the military is likely circumstantial...he could very well have been any other profession, the result would be the same. Years of abuse, neglect or some other issue makes people abusive to their family members, not joining the military.
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rackjite Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
197. Support our troops
This is the legacy of Dick Cheney.
Who is tied for second place with Newt Gingrich for GOP 2012 President.
Making front runner Sarah Palin look good!
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PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #197
201. This is an instance of one guy abusing his child...it's not indicative of anything
In fact, the term "waterboarding" his daughter is inaccurate, because what he did wasn't waterboarding. He very nearly threatened to drown her, which is quite different from waterboarding, which only gives someone the sensation of drowning.

Yes, there are people in the military that have mental and emotional problems and probably need to seek help, and those that don't have abused their children and spouses. But there are people like this in ever walk of life in our country. As much as I dislike Cheney and others in the previous administration, it's a stretch to tie this one soldier's rage problem to the administration. For every guy like this, there are thousands of other military personnel that DON'T abuse their families.
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samplegirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
203. Guess he was a Hannity listner
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
205. there are some folks who deserve to be beaten to a pulp.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:02 PM
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210. I thought waterboarding was used to get people to divulge information
that they didn't want to give up, not as a form of punishment? Did this first class A-hole think his daughter knew the alphabet and just didn't want to tell him? A sad situation, I hope this guy sees some jail time and is not allowed unsupervised contact with his daughter anymore.
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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
217. VA short 800+ mental health professionals
right now
(stats from Veterans for Common Sense & Iraq Veterans of America)

This is the tip of the iceberg.. OUR Veterans, Active Duty, & FAMILIES need real help, resources, & support systems ..YESTERDAY.
BRING 'em HOME, NOW..& TAKE CARE OF THEM!
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 09:25 PM
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220. awful!!
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