House Liberals To Pelosi: “We Cannot Support The Senate Bill. Period.”

[t0dd]

Source: The Plum Line

In a private meeting in the Capitol just now, a dozen or more House liberals bluntly told Nancy Pelosi that there was no chance that they would vote to pass the Senate bill in its current form — making it all but certain that House Dems won’t opt for this approach, a top House liberal tells me.

“We cannot support the Senate bill — period,” is the message that liberals delivered to the Speaker, Dem Rep Raul Grijalva told me in an interview just now.

...

Tellingly, House liberals also urged Pelosi to consider passing individual pieces of reform through the House as individual bills, and sending them to the Senate to challenge the upper chamber to reject them, Grijalva tells me. Liberals said this approach would be preferable to passing the Senate bill.

For instance, Grijalva said, why not send the Senate individual bills that would, among other things, nix the “Cadillac” tax or close the donut hole, pressuring the Senate to deal with each provision separately?

“If the Senate chooses not to close the donut hole, that’s their damn problem,” Grijalva said. “They’ve had it too easy. One vote controls everything. Collectively, we’re tired of that.”

Read more: http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/house-liberals-to-pelosi-we-cannot-support-the-senate-bill-period/

---

:applause:

[flyarm]

1. Great Grijalva !! and liberals..but can you stick to your guns? time will tell. eom

[bbgrunt]

34. yep, about the only thing this adm seems capable of doing is

forcing the progressives to cave....I am sure they are making an intense case to pass it now and fix it later. I sure share your hope that they can hold on to their principles.

[SergeStorms]

39. I think Tuesday's debacle........

went a long way in reinforcing the true Liberals' spines. Or at least I hope so. They have to take SOME message away from the stunning defeat, don't they? :shrug: I just hope it's the correct one.

[dotymed]

45. On the tee vee this morning

they "reported" that Obama has instructed Congress to re-work the HCR (lol) bill, to make it more acceptable to repubs since we no longer have a "super majority". The repubs passed all of their legislation and de-regulation without a "super-majority" and even with a minority at times. It takes 51 votes. the rest is B.S., we can't support the current HCR (lol sorry i can't help it...double speak does that to me) anyway. It is an Insurance Company give-away. Just look at the Insurance stock value increases in the last 60 days. Gibb's was talking about the huge Increase that occurred when Brown was elected. What about the huge increases in the last few months?

[No Elephants]

48. Check out a list of Coakley's donors--lots of health insurers.

[icee]

65. So you think she was a plant? Paid to blow it?

[SteveM]

98. If that is the case, the Democratic Party has become a garden of blowing it (nt)

[TheEuclideanOne]

54. Please tell me you are joking about

this part....

" they "reported" that Obama has instructed Congress to re-work the HCR (lol) bill, to make it more acceptable to repubs since we no longer have a "super majority".

[liberalmike27]

84. From what I can tell

the "message" they are getting is that they need to go more to the center.

Personally, I think they never had any idea they'd have "60" and it exposes the flaw of corporate money, and democratic hypocrisy. See democrats have to pretend to be for the people, but sadly they are bought and paid for with the same corporate money.

Republicans have no schism, since they are plenty willing to sell people down the river, for corporate power.

Things are only going to get worse now that the SC has repealed corporate limits in elections. I do think they got what they wanted, back to 59, which is ridiculous anyway, since with all the DINOs they never really had that.

We're fucked, majorly fucked.

[icnorth]

88. Hell, yeah, if they move more towards the center

that means they're moving to the left.

[TheEuclideanOne]

91. Yep, they want the Republicans to be the bad guys

although they have the same goals, they want the Republicans to make it happen so they can say, it wasn't me, it was them.


Another example of this is that they are waiting for Scott Brown to get swarn in before they do anything. WTF is that all about? I could see putting bills through at a normal pace, not stalling or not rushing, but intentionally waiting for this obstructionist is just trying to lose. I can't even describe the reasoning behind that. It is also a major contradiction by the administration in saying "a"--Healthcare, and the current administration, had nothing to do with losing Kennedy's seat and "b" - Brown was elected as a direct result of the crappy healthcare bill, so we need to wait for him to do what he was elect to do.

Perhaps the democrats want him there to add a few more presents to the corporations?

[Gman2]

72. He never said that.. He could have been for making it more palatable to us.

[RobinA]

99. Repubs

passed legislation without a super-majority because Dems helped them. I wish people would stop saying "Bush did it." He had help from our side.

[pocoloco]

2. That is exactly what the Dems need to do.......

That and a lot more creative thinking out of the box!

Put every issue square on the repugs lap.

[Odin2005]

3. BRAVO!

[Tim01]

4. GOOD! I guess somebody started handing out backbones. nt

[jimmil]

5. No way...

Dems haven't had a spine since Nixon. Wait a few weeks and soon enough bills will be proposed that will screw the poor and make someone with a lot of money bring in more.

[Rozlee]

8. Just what we need. A cynic.

Are we related?

[Goldstein1984]

18. A cynic us just...

a skeptic who's been keeping good notes--a member of the reality-based community with both knowledge and wisdom.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

24. I always love wisdom, especially when it gives a person a way to avoid the hazzards of life.

[Rozlee]

70. The optimist invented the airplane. The cynic invented the parachute.

jimmini is right. The Dems wouldn't know a spine if it sodomized them. Our leadership doesn't stand for us. They lay spread-eagled, waiting for the next screwing by the Repukes. It wouldn't be so bad if only they'd learn. That's just the problem. They never learn. And the other thing is that the Retardicans know how to purge their moderates from the herd and leave only the acid right. We keep endorsing and kowtowing to our "moderates" (read: DINOS) instead of culling them out in primaries and getting rid of them.

[peace frog]

43. Talk is cheap. I'll believe it when I see it

and so far I've seen very little actual anything but have heard a whole lot of hot air.

[aquart]

6. YES!

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mckara]

9. Time to Go Beyond Corporate BS!

[truedelphi]

116. Yes it really is time. Go Progressive Caucus.

Hope they continue to pound away at this.

Even Howard Dean said on Tuesday that the Senate Bill was just a Giveaway to the Corporations that wrote it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

10. Good, More Of This

If the blue dog fake Dems can be whiny-ass titty babies and get all their corporate-backed poison pills into the bill, it about time the progressive wing makes a point of saying they aren't going to eat any more shit sandwiches.

Yes, people are saying they will only be shooting themselves in the foot by failing on HCR, but sometimes you have to say enough is enough.

[tblue]

19. Sure beats rolling over and playing dead.

We need to show the Pres that THIS is what we expect of Dems. We need to send money the way of these progressives, God bless 'em. Obama seems to think they are the problem. Na-ahn.

[DeSwiss]

11. It happens occasionally.....

- K&R

[Phlem]

17. Dude!

ROFL and out my fricken nose.

Awesome!

-phlem

[Trillo]

12. This deserves a K & R!

n/t

[Zhade]

13. FUCK YEAH!

NT!

[defendandprotect]

14. Guess we have Boston to thank for that -- ??!!! MEDICARE FOR ALL ...!!!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Yes, pass the GOOD parts of the bill separately

and make them effective immediately.

It would be hard for a politician to justify voting against a bill that banned rescissions, for example. "Senator X thinks it's OK for insurance companies to drop you just because you actually use the product you've been paying for."

[dana_b]

16. excellent

"that's their damn problem" - love it.

[Hekate]

20. All right. About damn time. Tell the @$ %& Senate they can do an up or down vote on each piece...

Let the American people know just who thinks we don't need protection for pre-existing conditions, and on and on and on. One at a time.

And Mr. President? Get your ass in gear and LEAD. Tell your press people to get their asses in gear and start telling the American people what you HAVE ALREADY done, because if you don't tell them, how will they know?

Hekate

[Left Coast2020]

29. Yes, lead! But start by firing Rahm, and Tim Kaine....

....perhaps Axelrod too. Eliminate the DLC garbage and you may acomplish something.

[icnorth]

85. Exactly Hekate, and all that hand wringing

over the loss of a super majority is unadulterated BS. For 99.99% of progressive legislation introduced a super majority is pure mythology. Now take off the gloves and start knocking a few heads together.

[8 track mind]

21. ok, this should get interesting.....n/t

[ProgressOnTheMove]

22. It sounds like Nancy hears the people, is there somehow we can cut loose the Senate it's just a ...

corrupt filthy thing, excluding Sanders and those of his honesty. Imagine it real representative government without ludicrous filibusters and other processes that don't make a lick of sense.

[Proletariatprincess]

31. I wish we could just eliminate the senate altogether.

It is way past due. Undemocratic and based in the history of slavery, the Senate is like the House of Lords in Britain, but worse. Useless and corrupt.

[LarryNM]

38. Agreed. If the People of the U.S.

do not have the Wisdom or the Means to do this, then perhaps the Nation that will eventually replace the U.S. will be able to do so.

[kenfrequed]

60. Historically yes...

Either we do away with the Senate or the Electoral college. The rationale for their existance has mutated from protection for small states to protection for big industry that can swamp small states with massive campaign contributions.

[Abq_Sarah]

79. You really don't have a grasp

On the history of the Senate, do you?

Do you even know why they exist?

[ekwhite]

129. Pray tell, enlighten us N/T

[cprise]

131. After next election cycle, the House will be the same as the Senate

Corporate campaign funding has just had all donation caps ripped off by the Supreme Court.

Its going to get much worse with every House member jumping every chance they get to witchhunt against moderates like Obama. From now on, if it ain't 100% pro-corporate, it ain't nothin!

[Iowa]

23. Some good news for a change. n/t

[grahamhgreen]

25. I wonder who the 12 are? John Lewis, I hope!

[liquid diamond]

26. Looks like the far right and far left have something in common after all.

Fuck it. Let's just can health care reform and focus on something else.
:sarcasm:

[tomhayes]

27. We'll get nothing now

Goodbye health care reform.

[sabrina 1]

35. Nothing would be better than the corporate giveaway

at the expense of the American people they let the Insurance Industry write for them.

The only reason we would get nothing would be because the WH is not working for the people.

We don't HAVE to get nothing. We could get what Ted Kennedy wanted, Medicaire for All which would be cheaper, more efficient and more equitable, IF THE WH had wanted it.

But we know now that this administration never wanted Health Care Reform, they wanted to bail out a useless, costly private industry who were in deep trouble by forcing Americans to go through them for their healthcare needs. It is a draconian system that doesnt' exist in any other civilized country. In fact, it would be and should be considered a crime in every other industrialized country to have a for-profit system in charge of people's lives.

[wordpix]

61. we've got NOTHING now so let's try the "individual pieces" approach

[jonathan_seer]

28. Grijalva is my new favorite Rep.

He recognizes the best way to deal with the Senate is shove their cowardly strategies down their throat.

Thank goodness the FAKE 60 supermajority is gone.

Nothing says "cowardly" better than watching the current weak Senate leadership turn the 60 voter supermajority into the WEAKEST majority in the history of the Senate, and their must have 60 vote requirement empowered Republicans.

[tomhayes]

30. Yeah, who needs health care reform anyways??

Shove it - you dirty Senators!!!

[Hulk]

32. Give the Democratic name to the repukes....

Maybe it's time to invent a new party?

I'm not being facetious. It's reality. The Democratic Party and the "old" repuke party are one and the same. The new "repuke party", the neocon conservative evangelical nut cakes can take the old repuke party.

I've had it. I want a representative that REPRESENTS ME!!! I've had it with sell outs. F*CK these Congressmen and women that work for the lobbyists. F*CK them all.

I want a party that represents THE PEOPLE. US, the little guy...the working guy..the guy who doesn't like paying taxes for bull shit...like unjust wars, corporations that leech off unjust and illegal wars. I want a party that works for the people. I'll pay for social services that help our population. But F*CK the wealthy and corporations in this country. We have been taking it in the ass for the last forty years. Enough is enough!!

Call it the "Socialist Party"...or the "Labor Party".....or the "Working Man's Party"...or the "Middle Class Party". Enough is enough. I'm done voting for more corporate shills. No more from this voter.

[happygoluckytoyou]

33. THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE SOLUTION

it removes the 5 zillion dollar bribes and most of the PORK shit.... breaks the vote down to who need help---> and who does NOT want to help them

[Hippo_Tron]

36. I say support the Senate on the condition that they agree to make changes through reconciliation

Specifically I'd like to know what the House Dems planned on getting changed. I know part of it was the tax on so-called "Cadillac" plans was going to be changed so it would be less likely to wind up hitting union members. That is tax related and thus easily falls under the scope of reconciliation and would survive the Byrd rule.

[Demeter]

37. Good For Them, Good for Us

Sorting the wheat from the chaff--very little wheat in that bill.

[democracy1st]

40. K & R

[DailyGrind51]

41. Well, it looks like we can forget about HCR for another 20 years!

[PassingFair]

42. Maybe just the useless, unfunded mandated part of it....n/t

[Krashkopf]

44. The Progressive Caucus ROCKS!!!!!!!!

[cprise]

132. Unless Congress starts impeaching SCOTUS judges soon

...then progressives will have little chance to accomplish anything in government whatsoever. SCOTUS have taken the lid off all corporate campaign donations.

Think of the candidates we'll have to choose from here on out...

[jpak]

46. Good - they should march over to the Senate and tell Holy Joe to go fuck himelf

and dare him and his GOP buddies to filibuster...

yup

[Kokonoe]

47. Our elected Democrats are forced to choose between the far right

and the democratic majority.

Something that should have happened from the beginning.

[Jester Messiah]

49. Good to see fires lit beneath a few asses...

Perhaps the Massachusetts debacle will end up serving the greater good after all.

[pundaint]

103. The People get heard just once and it's called a "debacle"

Expect more debacles, were like puppies, once we find our voices, the owners will be sorry.

[Jester Messiah]

134. To whom do you refer when you say "we" ?

Never mind, I think I have a good idea.

[No Elephants]

50. Only 12? Doesn't the allegedly Progressive Caucus have about 100 members?

I hope to heaven Mike Capuano, my Rep., is among the twelve. He was my candidate in the recent and ill fated Massachusetts primary.

On edit: I am going to email him now to tell him that I hope the story is true and I hope he is one of the 12. Please consider doing the same with your Rep.

[customerserviceguy]

51. The last part of your OP was the most interesting

At this point, HCR as it is currently configured is dead. It's only a matter of whether the House or the Senate gets the blame for it. The idea of busting it up into pieces is just a game to do that.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. He does not say 'will not' he says 'can not' and he means it

My Rep has not even faced a challenger in a few cycles, but if he votes for the Senate Bill, I am not sure he will be welcome to live in this district, much less get elected again. Run out on a rail is more like it. Tarred and feathered not impossible.

[harun]

53. God bless the Congressional Progressive Caucus! The only people in Washington

on our side. (Of which Grijalva is the chair)

[wordpix]

59. excellent group that's actually providing LEADERSHIP

[harun]

68. We really need to work on more visibility for them. In terms of knowing what group

primary candidates for Congress plan on siding with. If I knew my rep was going to jump in with the blue dogs before he got to Congress that would have been valuable information to me.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

55. It's now or never....

If we can't pass a healthcare reform bill before the 2010 election, be prepared to lose our majorities.

Understand something. The average voter doesn't give two shits for either party. But if the Democrats can't get the job done, voters will replace them with somebody who will. This "Inside Baseball" shit going on between the House and Senate? Nobody gives a damn in Peoria -- all they know is the don't have jobs and they don't have health care.

And they're pissed enough to give Ted Kennedy's seat to a Teabagger, so don't think that ANY Democrat is in a "safe seat" if we can't show some results.

At this point, I don't give a hoot in hell WHAT KIND OF REFORM they pass, however weak and half-assed it might be. They can fix it later. But if there's nothing on the table by next November, for many House Democrats, it's not going to matter because they're going to be sent home.

[PATRICK]

63. "replace them with someone who will"

The trouble is all people who know the truth know they can't replace them with anything except worse options. They will sit out elections instead in large enough numbers to doom semi-Dems and a lot of progressives too, unfortunately. A lot of corporate Dems in safe seats will survive with tons of campaign cash from their bosses. Enough Dems will grimly, through fear or other lesser motivations, stick to voting against the boisterous repugnant monsters coming with alligator smiles from the corporate right. The enthusiasm will go to the very worst elements of our undemocratic society, the most tricked, inflamed by dumb anger and lies from the very heart of the money machine itself. Winning, blood lust, the very hunger for raw absolute power is up against tepid disorganization begging weakly to be compromised with Big Money.

My take is that this particular crisis was avoidable at this stage even though the cards have been stacked for precisely this meltdown to happen in the Bush Interregnum. Reasonable Dems, shoved by events into the concentration camp of the "far left" could have expected career interested Dems with modest thirst for power to do the popular and right things(which meshed almost perfectly outside the propaganda machine and imperfectly within) and leave the GOP in the dust. THEN the problem of corporate Dem versus growing NEW Dems of the progressive-rational sort could have resolved in some organic way or in the creation of new parties. The spectacular blind spots of current party "leadership"(the quotes signify the effect of the blind spots) have lead us into the dumbest display of unprofessional politics, misunderstandings, championing of the corporate cause over all logic and against all voters within the thinnest self deception of getting some things done right for points. For points, when knock punches were wide open everywhere.

Incumbents protected by money is still the rule they all live and die by. That is the one untouchable thing that was needed for any chance of real change. We knew that we were stuck with the Grand delusion of Foggy Bottom. Building ground up progressive representation against great opposition was always the long term grim task and still is. The so-called party leadership only chooses in what manner this will be difficult and here it is- the DLC pratfall. They get up(but not off their knees) afraid and angry and still have absolute power to make sure the people can never get what they justly and rationally want out of their supposed servants.

Having two choices- fascist and quasi-corrupt- will weight things into a corporate quagmire from which democracy cannot emerge without revolution. Victory for anything else is not visible or certain but we have a lot of people working on it and some significant victories.

[pundaint]

109. Capitulation to the "inevitable" never brought about change.

The two voices are People who feel left out on the Right, and People who feel left out on the Left. I bet we could agree on ending corporate personhood, and involvement in politics, and clamping tight controls on large corporations if the Democrats still wanted to lead some Change as a party.

[PATRICK]

138. Anytime, anyday

I wouldn't even remember to hold a grudge. The people as a whole are left out. A new party running against the current game and rules would also get their allegiance if it could get a national voice. The current attitudes conveniently work very well to exclude this possibility which is one of the few things that could move pols to sanity.

[RobinA]

100. Ted Kennedy's Seat

I don't read giving Kennedy's seat to a teabagger as anger over lack of jobs and health care. Last time I looked teabaggers aren't interested in either. I guess I'm in the minority here, but the logic escapes me. That's like saying I don't like that Obama hasn't closed Guantanomo so I'm voting for John Woo.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

107. You're thinking logically...

When voters are angry with the status quo, they'll take it out on the status quo's perceived representative, and right now, that would be the Democratic Party.

If the Democrats don't start producing results -- and soon -- they're going to be in serious trouble.

[pundaint]

111. It was never Kennedy's seat, it was a loan of power from the People of Massachusetts

given to be used in their best interests. A DLC Democrat was not deemed to be the best application of the People's power.

[NorthCarolina]

56. I hope they stick to this and keep the pressure up. Unfortunately,

I doubt their efforts will get much exposure in the MSM because the danger of showing "Liberals" working for the people might undo decades of work spent demonizing them.

[freddie mertz]

57. Good for them!

Don't cave to pressure.

Negotiate from strength.

Some good can still be done.

[wordpix]

58. good---this idea of sending individual bills to the Senate is the way to go

DO IT :applause:

[old mark]

62. I hope the battle is just starting on this - I don't want the GOP to think

they have won a cheap victory on health care because we had a dead brain candidate for one senate seat.

Go,you House Progressives! I am very happy to see some REAL DEMOCRATS for a change!

mark

ADDED: Thanks for the link to the site - looks like an interesting place, and I have added it to my favorites.

rec.

[Jackpine Radical]

64. It's an ill wind...

At least the Goddam Progressives got the message!!

[BP2]

66. LOL - I didn't realize KILL THE BILL had so many fans here! Good to see

many more have finally come to their senses of how much the Senate version has always sucked.

The really ironic thing is that "Kill the Bill" still made sense when we had 60 votes in the Senate.

[pundaint]

113. That is the Message of Massachusetts. The Corporations have already gotten all of theirs and more,

it is time to govern in the interests of the People for a while. There's a 30-year pendulum swing turning - it would be better to lead the swing.

[thereismore]

67. Can we hope for some leadership now? nt

[shadowknows69]

69. Lines are being drawn kids. Time to get on the one that's right. The Left.

[wordpix]

74. time for progressives to DARE the anti-HCR idiots to go publicly corporate

DARE the fuckers to say no to covering people with pre-existing conditions

DARE the fuckers to say no to people who get sick, who are denied coverage when their bills run up

DARE the fuckers to say no to a reintroduced drug reimportation bill so all can see WHY their meds are so expensive

DARE the fuckers to say no to expanding Medicare for people who can't afford or can't get health insurance because they're older, out of work or sick

DARE the fuckers to say no to the public option as a way to compete with expensive insurance cos. and to lower costs

DARE THEM!!!! :applause: for the progressive caucus and House Dems :applause:


Let's have a debate on each piece and DARE the anti-HCR folks not to reform the system.

[shadowknows69]

77. Bravo. And broadcast it on prime time network TV. I know. Dreaming.

[ieoeja]

71. Wait til next year.

Aside from passing a budget, the legislature might just as well recess for the year at this point. Republican Senators have made it clear they will stand together 100% to filibuster any progressive legislation. So the best we can now hope for is nothing.

Go home. Get re-elected. Work on getting us that net gain of 2 Senate seats. Because even with 58 Democrats + 1 Socialist we were still 1 vote shy of passing a public option; now we are 2 votes shy.

At least DUers can finally pull together and work on getting more Democrats elected now that we can't do anything else.

[derby378]

73. Wonderful - but actions speak louder than words

Hold your ground, and don't give an inch.

[kestrel91316]

75. HCR is now officially dead in the water. Why is Pelosi pretending otherwise?

[wordpix]

76. ain't over til it's over. it's not over yet

[Jefferson23]

78. FIGHT BACK everyone, sign the petition please at the link:

Sign the petition

We've reached 81% of our 2nd NEW goal of 75,000 signers! (61,189)

The petition to President Obama, Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Reid reads:

"The loss of Ted Kennedy's seat -- due to a lack of enthusiasm among Democrats and Independents -- sends a clear message to Congress. The Senate health care bill is not the change we were promised in 2008, and it must be improved. The Senate must use 'reconciliation' to pass a better bill with a strong public option."
Complete the following to sign the petition. You'll receive periodic updates on offers and activism opportunities.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/po_reconciliation/?r_by=7432-1680935-vA1YXfx&rc=confemail1

[DKRC]

80. Thank you Rep. Grijalva!

:applause: :yourock: :applause:

K&R!

[centristgrandpa]

81. too big to fail...

talk about inflated heads, those career public servants need to rethink; "they cannot be replace" attitude. (Republican Scott Brown pulled off one of the biggest upsets in Massachusetts political history tonight, defeating Democrat Martha Coakley to become the state's next United States senator and potentially derail President Obama's hopes for a health care overhaul) This was a give-away from the demo's, how in the world do you give-away a twenty point lead...

[groundloop]

82. If House uses individual healthcare bills, what's to stop endless amendmants from bogging this down?

At this point it feels like the idea of sending individual tidbits of legislation to the Senate is the only option left. It would be hard for many to argue against protecting people with pre-existing conditions. It would be hard for them to argue anainst patient appeals being heard by an independent panel (instead of the current joke of the insurance company hearing an appeal).

However, I can see certain Senators who would quickly bog down even this effort with mindless and corrupt amendmants to the point of making these bills useless. Is there any way that could be prevented?

[julian09]

121. That works both ways, can add HCR amendment to defence or

other,finance bills, keep it clean and simple.

[femrap]

83. This is a great idea....

I'm sick of 75% of the Dem senators.

After the MA election, this will provide the Progressive Caucus with some leverage. USE IT!

Just give us a damn Public Option.

[alberg]

86. In a 2 party system voters have limited options to express their outrage

If you listen to the buzz around the country, what you hear repeated is the message: "Vote whoever is in power out, and maybe they'll get the message that we aren't happy and want things to change in a fundamental way." It was this sentiment, "Change", that got Democrats elected in 2008. It's this sentiment that will remove them, unless they show the voters that they are sincere in working for real change between now and the next election. People are really pissed off this time. It's not going to go away. Unless a strong Progressive voice emerges on a national level that aligns with the outrage people feel about HealthCare, Jobs and Wall Street we are destined to suffer major electoral defeats. Obama will have one more shot at turning this around. Unless he uses the State of the Union address to acknowledge past mistakes and make a new start, we are in real trouble. He could start by firing Summers and Geitner, proposing a federal jobs program and opening up Medicare to everybody. Sound drastic? Yet that is precisely the kind of message that will regain the support of 70% of the electorate. It's a fool’s game to try and win over the other 30% - they are the same folks who supported Bush no matter what and believe Global Warming is a myth.

Most Americans want the same things:

Among these are:

"The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education." - FDR

They see the good life slipping away, and it doesn't seem to matter what party is in power. They thought that Barack Obama was the Change they hoped for, but so far they have been seriously disappointed. This is part of the reason for the rise of the so called "teabaggers" - many of whom are simply concerned retirement age people who don't want their Medicare benefits tampered with. Most Americans are smart enough to know that the wealth of this country is increasingly concentrated in a small elite, and they want that to change. If a strong Progressive leader steps forward, the majority of the country, 70%, will support them. Barack Obama proved that during his campaign. Unfortunately, the Change did not happen once the Democrats took power. In fact, Democrats appear to be unwilling to even fight for real change. And it is this lack of fight that has many of their supporters so disillusioned.

[ieoeja]

92. Rise of the teabaggers!

The first "Tea Party" reference came less than one month after Obama was in office. They were specifically aimed at the Stimulus Bill: the very thing intended to help people get or keep their jobs. And NOT ONE FUCKING TEA PARTY was held to protest that the stimulus did "too little". 100% of them protested that it did "too much".

So in reality the teabaggers are either conservatives angry that they lost the election, or bigots angry that we elected a n*****.

They don't want Obama to do anything you just stated. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[alberg]

97. Faux News and the rest hijacked the very real anger of the voters

at Washington and the powers that be. No question that the irredeemable 30% was there from the beginning. But the ranks of the "Teabaggers" were increased considerably by the fear generated by Fox and others that HCR was going to jeopardize their benefits. This, coupled with the Wall Street bailout caused many folks who supported the Democrats in the last election to turn against them. We can get those people back if we start now to do the things that most Americans want: stand up to the moneyed elite and open up Medicare to everybody.

[pundaint]

108. We weren't all teabaggers, but we had this opportunity with a common goal

Congress needs to behave as if the People are the primary interest of government. We will replace Democrats who don't support the Brand, even in a Blue state, and as in NY 23, we wont accept corporate tool Republicans in red districts either. The People have the Mo'. Now's the time to end corporate personhood, there will never be an easier environment to get it done.

[alberg]

115. Agreed.

[pundaint]

106. Truth precedes

[robcon]

87. I don't think they'll spend 2010, an election year, on health Care.

I think it's like 1993... if we couldn't get it done in an off-year, it won't get done.

[Ozymanithrax]

89. Liberals choosing to let 45,000 people die a year without health care...

Which means, they arn't liberals. They are Republicans who dress left.

[mzmolly]

93. I too, don't understand the celebratory tone

here.

[pundaint]

104. No, your centrist, corporations first bill, paid off too many special interests to gain support.

Liberals didn't get to participate in the bill. Your bill sucked, and your failure leaves too many uncovered people, and too much money still being drained from the system for Insurance and Pharmaceutical profits.

[Ozymanithrax]

133. Net result, 45,000 people a year die without health care without it..

It would helap a lot of those. A centrist bill, if you want to call it that, would have help millions of people, and that makes it progressive.

[mzmolly]

90. How is this good news for people without health care?

The Senate bill provided coverage to those with pre-existing conditions, and subsidized premiums. "It's dead woo hoo?!" :eyes:

[RobinA]

101. Delusional

Most of this reaction is delusional nonsense. People seeing what they want to see, believeing that up is down. Or, more appropriately, down is up.

[ieoeja]

94. Bartendar last night, "Massachusettes just took away my only chance to get healthcare." (nt)

[mzmolly]

102. And people here are celebrating.

Great huh? With the new SCOTUS ruling, who knows if we'll be able to mandate insurance companies do a damn thing from here on out. :(

[pundaint]

105. Then you should have demanded a better bill for everybody, instead of settling for you piece.

[jsamuel]

112. I am curious. How would the bill have given him healthcare?

[ieoeja]

139. Subsidies (nt)

[humbled_opinion]

95. No I have a better title.

House Liberals reject Progressives and embrace Republicans call to KILL THE BILL.

There.. that ought to do it.

[ChiciB1]

96. IF & WHEN The Process Is Started & The PERHAPS They Stick To Their

guns, ONLY THEN will I believe IT! I've seen TOO many LIES and TOO MUCH giving in that I can't even applaud ANOTHER announcement! Because that's all it is... AN ANNOUNCEMENT!!

They FORGET TOO SOON, and they will forget MA IMO! I have lost so much faith in "our" so-called Democratic Congress Critters AND especially the WH!

:evilfrown:

[BP2]

110. They'll chicken out.They always do. Welcome back to the Status-quo. eom

[mvd]

114. The Senate bill should only be a last resort anyway.

I'd much rather they passed all the good things separately (the things the Repukes would look terrible opposing,) and used reconciliation to put in a public option and a progressive tax to pay for health care. We would all be part of the tax, but would get much improved care.

[julian09]

119. House can not vote on senate version

They don't have the votes to pass it;
that would end the process and kill the bill right there.
THEY HAVE TO start over GO INCREMENTALLY, no denial for preexisting conditions, do away with dollar limit on care, close donut hole.
Second bill in exchange for some tort reform and buying insurance accross state lines, which is the republican mantra, get someting for the people in that trade. Giving in on those two costs nothing except getting rid of Dem special interest perception.

[mvd]

123. It would be my first choice to pass incrementally

So I'm fine with the House not having the votes if it means taking that route. Instead of just deal making, though, I would use reconciliation to improve the bill - with "deal-making" on non-budget related improvements.

[julian09]

124. Won't need reconciliation, keep bill clean,

and simple, something that no one will dare vote against. Then similar simple bills that will improve health care.
Trying to keep both majorities in the congress, doing the populist thing and maybe improve on those margins instead of
losing members. They have two elections cycles 2010 & 2012 then Obama in second term could do more. They should run some real Dems against obstructionist DINO CANDIDATES and support them financially. We need a real majority not democrats in name only, that process should start now.

[mvd]

126. I don't think we get a public option or stripping of..

anti-trust or expansion of Medicare unless we use reconciliation.

[winyanstaz]

117. Well good...about time someone grew a pair....

[Uncle Joe]

118. I like the idea of passing individual pieces.

Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, t0dd.:thumbsup:

[rayofreason]

120. Passing smaller, popular pieces...

...is much better strategy.

[bertman]

122. So NOW the liberals are gonna get tough. I'll believe it when I see it. But, hey, maybe

they are figuring out it's time to take a stand.

[julian09]

125. They should do the same with Bank Reform

Let GOP take their stand against the reform and 30% interest rates, and naked short selling.
Expose them early and often, on healthcare and banking votes, in this election year.

[bertman]

128. I agree 100%, Julian.

[FriendlyReminder]

127. OMG! WE HAVE 59 damn Senate seats and we can't get something done!!!

I am sick and tired of the spineless wimps in our leadership. 59 goddamn seats and we act like we are in the minority. Make the repukes filibuster and paint them as obstructionists. Come on, grow a set for crying out loud. We need to do some house (and senate) cleaning come primary time. PERIOD!!!

[Martin Eden]

130. 'nuff is enuff'

Liberal Congresscritters finally draw the line!

[varelse]

135. "One vote controls everything. Collectively, we’re tired of that.”

No shit. So are we.

[unkachuck]

136. "One vote controls everything. "....yes sir, and they want it that way....

....when the wants and needs of the American people can't be brought to fruition within our own government, when our problems remain unaddressed and unresolved because of corporate control of our Senate and government, then we are no longer a democracy....call it what you want, but it's not democracy....

....we won't have true meaningful healthcare reform (or anything else) so long as the two corporate owned parties control our government....Teds' efforts brought us nothing, brown-streaks' efforts will bring us nothing....the puke party has brought us nothing, the Dems have brought us nothing....

....going to the polls ever two years and electing corporate candidates, means nothing....it's all fun and games, unless and until, we become serious...."They’ve had it too easy."

[donheld]

137. Praise be

:applause::bounce: :applause::bounce: :applause::bounce: :applause: