Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Two pedestrian bridges on Vezuela-Colombia border dynamited this AM

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 05:25 PM
Original message
Two pedestrian bridges on Vezuela-Colombia border dynamited this AM
Source: CNN en Espaol

No article on cnnespaol.com yet.

No link yet.



CNN en Espaol has been running a story all afternnon that men dressed as Venezuelan troops blew up two pedestrin bridges over the Santander River on the Venezuela-Colombia border. Colombian ministers denounced the actions today in both the OAS and the UN. Cnnenespaol.com does not yet have an article on the story. The demolition took place in the early morning hours, and no one was hurt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Colombian military is notorious for luring boys with promises of jobs, killing them
and dressing them up as FARC guerrillas, to up their body count, to impress US senators. They are not to be trusted. Nor is Blackwater (operating in Colombia) to be trusted. Nor is the US military, nor the rancid Colombian government to be trusted--on anything they say about about "Venezuelan soldiers."

I won't recite all of the evidence that the Pentagon is planning Oil War II in South America. You can read by journal and other posts. The evidence is pretty overwhelming, and tremendously worrisome. And the "Gulf of Tonkin" for starting this war is likely to occur right on the Colombia/Venezuela border.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
57. "men dressed as Venezuelan troops" sounds very suspicious, false flag operation-like
for propaganda sake, like the Gulf of Tonkin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. oh dear...
this is going to get ugly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crzyrussell Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Vezuela
is becoming a very bad place to be. Hugo must want to distract people from what is really going on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I don't think even Chavez can distract people from the cesspool that is Colombia. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
52. I believe that Venezuela is lovely, and I look forward to going
there someday soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Venezuelan version
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 09:40 PM by rabs


(From El Tiempo of Bogota)


Gen. Eusebio Aguero Vergara, commander of Venezuela's Second Infantry Division, said the blowing up of the bridges at la Lejia and El Chicaro had been done with explosives "exclusively on the Venezuelan side."

The military leader said Venezuela made the decision to blow up the bridges because it had been constantly detected that (Colombian) paramilitaries, narcotrafficers, gasoline, food and chemicals for drug manufacture smugglers had been using the bridges.

------------------------

El general Eusebio Agero Vergara, comandante de la Segunda Division de Infanteria venezolana inform que la voladura de los puentes La lejia y El Chicaro se hizo con uso de explosivos "exclusivamente del lado venezolano".

El jefe militar explic que Venezuela tom la decision de volar estos pasos, pues detectaron que a traves de ellos ocurra "constantemente" el paso de paramilitares, narcotrfico, contrabando de gasolina y alimentos y el paso de precursores para la fabricacion de droga.

--------------------------

The bridges were rudimentary, foot structures built by people who live in the area and residents on the Colombian side threw stones at the Venezuelan troops. Colombian government today said it would take the issue to the OAS and the UN.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sounds like a reasonable and peaceful
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 10:00 PM by Pavulon
way to deal with stuff. You little chavez froggies are reaching a rolling boil in your bathwater. (not op, just the chavistas in general) Known crowd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. That's funny. Venezuela takes steps to protect their troops
and you see that as sinister?

That wall on our Mexican border must keep you up at night!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yep, when we blow up the border crossing wake me up. You need knee pads
from all the worshipping at the chavez alter. Once he actually starts killing people you guys are going to look really dumb. Just a matter of time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The border crossing? We blow up the containers of water priests leave in the desert.
And pardon me if I bear your perfect record in mind when reading your every post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The US Army does that?? Really.. Keep worshipping the dude
it will be a hard fall for ya when your false idol falls. The military destroyed the crossing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. OMFG, Hugo Chavez defends his borders. Dictator!
Seriously, your frothing at the mouth doesn't even make sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. defends from what? farc...
oh that does not make sense.. who is the enemy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Please tell me you're not the last person to know that Colombian paras
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 11:28 PM by EFerrari
have been busted inside Venezuela over and over and over again in houses stocked to the rafters with weapons.

Oh, wait. You probably are.

Combating the Colombian Paramilitaries in Venezuela
Printer-friendly versionSend to friend
August 14th 2006, by Jim McIlroy and Coral Wynter - Green Left Weekly

What we call the selective invasion of Venezuela by Colombian paramilitaries is not a normal military invasion, Luis Tascon, a prominent member of the Venezuelan parliament, told Green Left Weekly on July 4. Really, there have only been two major incursions. One in Rio de Oro, a frontier town in the state of Zulia, in 1999. The other was an operation by 120 paramilitaries uncovered in El Hatillo, near Caracas, in May 2004.

Elected from the western state of Tachira, which borders Colombia, Tascon is a founding member of the main parliamentary party supporting Chavez, the Movement for the Fifth Republic (MVR), and a member of the parliaments commission for science and technology. He has been a leading figure in the campaign to expose the infiltration of Venezuela by right-wing paramilitaries from neighbouring Colombia.

We were aware of the situation four years ago, when a small group of murderers began to kill the common criminals as a service offering 'security to the wealthy, said Tascon. They began as a front, in a convincing way, to control the sale of petrol across the border. Venezuelan petrol is very cheap. In Colombia, it is sold at international prices. Historically, there has been a thriving business of smuggling petrol. Cars buy petrol here and sell it at 10 times the price in Cucuta in Colombia.

The paramilitaries control the business, principally in Cucuta with the support of the Armed Forces of Colombia , and the assistance of the Venezuelan opposition. Proof of this is the presence of paramilitaries in Caracas, brought here in the context of the internal political struggle in Venezuela to provoke violence. This process is controlled by the FAC.

The paramilitaries were created to fight Colombias left-wing guerrillas. But right now, what is happening are incursions into Venezuela. The paramilitaries have bought large farms; they have relations with figures from the opposition, with large landowners who pay for the service of providing security.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/1886

Yahoo! search "colombian paramilitaries venezuela"

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=colombian+paramilitari...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Are those the ones colombia let go, oh no
those were hugos boys taking a day sail... Sounds like your water walker is up to something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Yeah, the same thing he's been up to for the last ten years.
Serving his term and putting up with irrational idiots.

lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #30
49. Fixing problems with explosives, generally a prelude to a fuckup.
just my experience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Not to mention the Columbian drug runners who illegally cross into "Vezuela"

n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. The refugees from Uribe's insane homocidal government
have been streaming into Venezuela for years, too. It used to be mostly single people but now whole families are fleeing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. Interesting how he's taking the side of a government known for human rights violations

Makes you wonder about some people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Look, I get it, you don't want to talk about this, so you're trying to change the subject.
It's one of those inconvenient little political facts that exposes Chavez's loyalties.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #38
45. Uribe has been castigated globally for the horrors in his country
but Chavez might step over that line, any day now, we know he's going to do it. It's the world's silliest one-sided pissing contest. :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #38
84. You don't have to wonder about him.
He's very open about himself and what he believes. I do, however, wonder what his motivation is for hanging out here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. Interesting how Venezuela has the resources to go after the paramilitaries
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 11:39 PM by YouTakeTheSkyway
but none to go after the FARC who are also using Venezuelan territory for their own purposes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. Says Uribe. What is it with all you Uribe worshipers here.
He's a walking human rights violation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. poor hugo just zipped his dick in his pants while playing biggus
dickus. This is hugo style high drama. He does love the media, like brittney spears in red. uribe is not the topic, nor is the tea in china. The topic is the detonation of an object on the border using high explosives by a military force. Not police. Now when you get off your knees to the hugo god and think you would realize this in not normal and in many places could be taken as a hostile act.

Dont see him blowing shit up on other borders..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flaneur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. Dude, get a grip! Venezuela destroyed an illegal border crossing.
Just like we do when we find those tunnels on the Mexican border. Spewing like you just did over this is just pathetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Pathetic and exceedingly irrational.
I swear I saw spittle dripping from his post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #47
63. So should we disband the Army Corps of Engineers?
Your post doesn't even make sense, in addition to be repulsive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #63
121. When they start blowing up stuff on the Mexican border, YES (NT)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. Who's worshipping Uribe? After all, I've repeatedly asked you for evidence
Edited on Fri Nov-20-09 01:51 AM by YouTakeTheSkyway
of any Venezuelan crackdown on the FARC. You've yet to provide any.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #55
64. Yes, you've repeatedly asked me to refute Uribe's bullshit.
Edited on Fri Nov-20-09 09:10 AM by EFerrari
Since I have no interest whatsoever in doing that, I and others have directed you to the DU archives which have all the threads where that was sorted out. Search magic laptop or don't. Read something or don't. It's up to you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #64
78. You have no interest in refuting the claim or you CAN'T refute the claim?
There's a difference, after all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #78
83. That question has been answered for you by several people repeatedly
as well. Bookmark this thread in case you "forget" again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. The answer as to why Venezuela has no problem expending resources to fight the paramilitaries
but can't be bothered to do so to the FARC has been answered? Where? And by whom? Because you've yet to tackle it...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #78
119. Just like in school
you neo-turds always want someone to do your homework.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #119
122. If someone is arguing that Chavez has taken steps to rein in the FARC
the burden of proof is on them.

Secondly, I'm not a "neo-" anything, I simply don't worship the ground Chavez walks on which puts me odds with some of you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
118. Follow the money
America is and has been "the enemy" for South
America for many years. Columbia is an American puppet regime.
Just look at our "response" in Honduras. If you
believe that the Honduran coup wasn't jointly financed by the
American elite then you don't have a clue. Chavez is such a
bad man for helping the poor of his country and shutting down
American elite financed TV stations that tried to incite a
coup, so the elite could reclaim wealth that they don't even
need. Chavez has started a universal movement to end poverty
and repression. I hope that it thrives. It has in the parts of
South America that have thrown off the shackles of American
elitism/imperialism. Pavulon, I hope you are very wealthy. If
not you're easily manipulated. That is diplomacy...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #118
123. What universal movement has Chavez started?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Homeland Security does

They destroy tunnels on the border all the time.

The bridges were as illegal as the tunnels.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. The question is whose "bridges" were they?
If they were Venezuela's, no problem. Blow 'em up. If they are Colombia's, it's extremely inappropriate, confrontational, aggressive, and likely illegal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. That is not the question, no matter whose bridges they were

They were not recognized as legal entry/exit points.

You can argue the point all you want, but you're just coming across as an ill-informed anti-Chavez fanatic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. If I come to your house and blow up your lawn mower
is it excusable because I don't like the way you cut your grass?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. LOL
:rofl:

Okay, on that perfect analogy, you boys have a good night. It doesn't get better than this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I thought you'd like it.
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 11:38 PM by Renew Deal
:D

Sweet dreams :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I'm done with him myself

There's no arguing with a demented mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Are you really that dense?

They blew up the bridges from THEIR SIDE!

Not only are you ill-informed, you're irrational as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. That's not what this story says
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 11:39 PM by Renew Deal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Like I said, if it's their side, it's a non issue (though it's pretty dumb).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
114. Good point! Remember last year? Tyrant Hugo was viciously blowing up drug-smugglers' runways!
It's like I broke into your house and blew up your ping-pong table! It's just rude!

Venezuela bombs drug runways near Colombia border
28 Mar 2008 22:44:09 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Luis Guevara
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N28455996.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. Thanks for posting this and reminding us. Totally helpful. n/t
Edited on Sat Nov-21-09 03:38 AM by Judi Lynn
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #114
120. I'll bet that pissed the CIA off.
There's a lot of black-ops funding in them life destroying
narcotics. Ship that stuff to our inner cities and let them
kill each other while the CIA pockets the big money and funds
coups for the corporations. All in a days work..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
86. Tunnels are not the same as water stops.
Bridges and Tunnels seem more related, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I don't know why you think it's going to take that long
I think the time has passed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. These sound like home made crossings not legal entry/exit points.
I am unaware of too many illegal crossings or tunnels we don't destroy between the US and Mexico.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. These geniuses probably want Chavez to put in an escalator to move the paras
into the interior more quickly.

Good grief.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. It's not like we've never used military fire power against drug trafficers and illegal contraband.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. They better hope Raul doesn't build a bridge to Miami.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
92. better yet $73K Cadillac Escalade hybrids
they're real quiet
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
116. The US removes private footbridges, too: here are some articles from last year ...
Rio Grande foot bridge now a memory
* By Ross McSwain
* Posted July 6, 2008 at 6:45 p.m.
For more than a half-century, the narrow foot bridge across the Rio Grande from Candelaria, Texas, to the little village of San Antonio Bravo on the Mexican side provided a safe passageway for folks to visit and trade goods. The U.S. Border Patrol has removed the bridge in the name of homeland security ...
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/06/out-yonder-... /

Candelaria R.I.P.
http://www.borderstories.org/blog/?p=41

* OCTOBER 6, 2008
Texas Rancher's Bridge to the Past Runs Afoul of the Border Patrol
Span to Mexico Reminds Him of His Youth; Bilingual Poker, Whiskey, Calf-Brain Stew
By STEPHANIE SIMON
SIERRA BLANCA, Texas -- In a swampy corner of his desolate ranch, Bill Addington proudly flouts the law. The Department of Homeland Security has demanded that he tear down a rickety footbridge from his land across the Rio Grande into Mexico. Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, authorities have shut down nearly a dozen of these informal river crossings along the Texas border. This is the last they know to be operating. They want it gone. Mr. Addington refuses. He crossed that bridge countless times as a boy, darting into Mexico to buy candy or watermelon juice or to flirt with the girls at church-hall dances. Mexicans crossed over, too, every day, to work the cotton fields for Mr. Addington's father -- a U.S. Border Patrol agent. After a hard season's labor, they would all celebrate together with a night of bilingual poker, fueled by whiskey and calf-brain stew. Mr. Addington, who is 52, clings to those memories. So when the Department of Homeland Security sent his family a letter this past summer warning that his bridge could allow "the illegal entry of terrorists, aliens, and/or drug traffickers," he scoffed ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122325020309406113.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. You'll believe any line of bullshit that Venezuela spews.
Doesn't matter how unbelievable or unreasonable their story is, the cheerleaders march on. Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to blow shit up when you can use the same soldiers to guard it. And I don't think soldiers should be too afraid of rock throwers. And that's not even getting into the fact that this is likely an illegal incursion onto Colombian territory.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
showpan Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. And I don't think soldiers should be too afraid of rock throwers.
tell THAT to the palestinians
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Were any of these reports put out by the Venezuelan government?
TIA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Right here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Go ahead and tell me how a "General" isn't part of the government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Your frothing at the mouth doesn't make any sense, either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You used that one already
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 11:24 PM by Renew Deal
Got anything original?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
54. Hugo's anklebiters: feel free to explain away 300,000 AK-74s
With a standing armed forces of 75-80k, his cheerleaders here won't question the deal with Russia for 100,000 AK-74s.

Funny how you can ask them why he reverse-engineered another 200,000 AK-74s and all they do is mutter gigglish insults that impress their fellow tools.

You boot-lickers need to wake up. He's already militarized his ports, absolutely nothing to stop him from exporting arms to whomever he pleases.


In his mind, he is the new Victor Bout and nobody (much less his worshipers here) cares to do jack about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #54
60. The point you've made on Venezuela's standing army is laughable.
Your claim they've ordered far more AK-47's than soldiers and they are going to be selling the leftovers, bizarre as it is, falls short of an honest statement for a country which has 100,000 active duty soldiers.
Venezuela Military Strength

PERSONNEL
Total Population: 26,414,816 {2008}
Population Available: 13,448,257 {2008}
Fit for Military Service: 11,049,788 {2008}
Reaching Military Age Annually: 549,429 {2008}
Active Military Personnel: 100,000 {2008}
ETC.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strengt...

Why not take a good long look at Venezuela's profile of recent military spending in comparison to other South American countries, in this BBC graph shared here some time ago by a tremendous DU'er, ronnie624:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8255930.stm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
101. globalfirepower - your link is the joke of the intarweb
Edited on Fri Nov-20-09 06:24 PM by Tejas
Ah yes, the website that somehow figures the Pakistan AF has 1,100 aircraft. :rofl:

eta: they number approx 350




Even so, let's pretend for a moment that 100,000 is correct (100k/79k - big deal).

Why 100,000 74's from Russia? Were his forces not already equipped with M16's/FAL's/HK91's?

Can't get 5.56 from Turkey? 7.62 NATO too expensive for him?


Oh, and those spiffy tanks. What the heck is he gonna do with tanks in mountainous forests?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #54
62. OMFG, Venezuela controls its own ports!
And they equip their military!

You guys are pathetic. Venezuela isn't even close to making the biggest weapons buys in the region and your exporting weapons bs is an AEI fantasy that's been in development for a long time.

AEI OUTLOOK SERIES
Hugo Chvez's Criminal Nuclear Network: A Grave and Growing Threat
By Roger F. Noriega AEI Online
(October 2009)


Hugo Chvez's criminal activities, long the bane of his neighbors in the Americas, have now extended to Iran, where he is aiding that regime's pursuit of nuclear weapons. The U.S. policy of averting our eyes so as not to give him the attention he craves must change. The Obama administration needs to strengthen ties with the friends in the region, bring Chvez's partnerships with Iran to the attention of the United Nations (UN), and engage the Venezuelan people to confront the threat Chvez poses.



Key Points in this Outlook:

*
Hugo Chvez is developing a nuclear program for Venezuela while aiding Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons.
*
The United States must confront the grave threat posed by Chvez.
*
The Obama administration should strengthen ties with stalwart friends, redouble antidrug cooperation with Africa and Europe, and caution the Venezuelan people on the costs of Chvez's risky behavior.

http://www.aei.org/outlook/100079

Before you promote talking points from right wing propaganda mills, at least know what you're doing.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #62
100. No, Chavez's military does.........and,
by the way, did his armed forces not already have small arms and spares? Please fill us in.


As far as the extra 200,000 74's he has in the works, you just sit there and keep thinking it isn't happening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #100
102.  Provide links. Claims by any poster are not sufficient. Back it up with real sources. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #102
128. enjoy your crow
You have no clue how long this has been going on do you?




Google chavez factory Kalashnikov

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_amer...



And if all else fails, there is always Snopes:

(near the bottom)
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/citgo.asp



Now take your giggling little preschooler geniuses that don't pay attention whatsoever to the worldwide munitions trade and go pester somebody else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. That kind of reasoning is why 9/11 happened and why
we invaded the wrong country to get even.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our fourth quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
40. Here's some clarification on what might have happened.
Venezuelan troops began to cross the bridges into Colombian territory, daily El Tiempo cited unidentified Ragonvalia officials as saying. Colombian residents threw stones at the soldiers, who detonated explosives to destroy the bridges, the Bogota-based newspaper cited Ragonvalia police as saying.

This action represents a violation of international and humanitarian law, Silva said in the statement. It is an aggression against civilians. The bridges destroyed on the Venezuelan side are essentially community foot-crossings.

Carrizalez accused Colombia of manipulating the story. He said no Venezuelan forces entered Colombia and his country had committed no aggression against its neighbor.

Relations between Venezuela and Colombia have crumbled since last year after President Alvaro Uribe accused Chavez of financing and supplying leftist Colombian rebels. Colombia says the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC as the drug- funded rebels are known, uses Venezuela as a transit route to smuggle drugs overseas.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aKn...

The Colombian story is that the bridges and rock throwers were completely in Colombian territory. Venezuela's response is half assed. No one entered Colombian territory and they don't consider it "aggression."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #40
51. A question for you
If Venezuela is supplying the FARC across the border in to Columbia, then why would Venezuela blow up bridges that they could use as a part of that supply line?

Plus, how hard can it be to establish where these bridges are? Either whatever they are bridging is the border marker or it is not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
44. Video of the "bridges" (Colombian version)
Edited on Fri Nov-20-09 12:14 AM by rabs

http://www.elespectador.com/venezuela/articulo173093-vo...


These were two pedestrian bridges in a very remote region of both Colombia and Venezuela. People interviewed in the video said the crude bridges had been there for about 60 years.

There were no Customs, police or any other authority on either side of the structures so it would be easy for smugglers to use them. For those who do not know it, gasoline smuggling from Venezuela, where it today is about 20 cents a gallon, to Colombia has been a very big business for years.

In recent years Colombian paramilitaries have been smuggling cocaine into Venezuela for clandestine shipment to Central America and then on to the U.S., despite the U.S.-sponsored Plan Colombia that was to halt cocaine production in Colombia.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. The Colombian reporter says witnesses saw the troops go to the middle of the bridge
to lay the charges.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Yep, and those same Colombian witnesses



do NOT say that the Venezuelan soldiers put one foot on Colombian territory.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Those Chavez worshipping Colombians will spew anything to defend Venezuela.
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #44
53. This seems rather silly
It appears you can wade across this water easily enough that the bridges are a mere convenience. And it would appear that it might have been more cost effective to take the bridges down with a hacksaw and a pair of pliers. Seems clear this was more a message than an actual event.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #53
59. Only person to get it in this thread, imo. It's a show of trivial force.
"We got plastic explosives, ha ha."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. The bridge was largely concrete so a hacksaw might have been the slow way
Edited on Fri Nov-20-09 08:52 AM by EFerrari
to get it done.

The framing of this story is interesting. Uribe accuses Chavez of coddling FARC inside Ven borders but when Ven takes steps to try to control the borders, this is the reaction. Typical Uribe who'd spin his own mother's death if he needed to. This is the same Uribe who asked Chavez to help negotiate hostage releases with FARC and then accused him of talking to FARC.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #61
79. Putting the cart before the horse, aren't ya?
Where's the evidence that Venezuela destroyed these crossings because they were known FARC routes? Because, as of yet, none has been presented in this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. I didn't say that. You have a reading problem or a thinking problem. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #82
89. It seemed the obvious implication of your post
"Uribe accuses Chavez of coddling FARC inside Ven borders but when Ven takes steps to try to control the borders, this is the reaction"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. Nope. The obvious inference is that Uribe is inconsistent. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. As if Chavez, in dealing with Colombians who exploit Venzuela for their own ends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #97
109. There is no comparison.
Do some reading about the decades long civil war in Colombia. The intertubes are clogged with information.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #109
111. There's no comparison to be made between the inconsistencies of rulers in neighboring countries
who are both involved in this conflict? I beg to differ.

Also, quite frankly, "do some reading", "google", or "go to the archives" is a pretty poor substitute for you posting something of substance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
65. Venezuelan army blows up two bridges in Colombia
Source: http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/6955-vene...

Venezuelan soldiers blew up two pedestrian bridges Thursday in Colombia's Norte de Santander frontier department, reported the Colombian government.

Colombia's Defense Minister, Gabriel Silva, claimed that a troop of Venezuelan guards arrived at the scene, near the town of Rangonvalia and proceeded to detonate explosives, destroying the two bridges connecting Colombia to Venezuelan territory over the river Tachira.

Colombia's Vice Foreign Minister, Clemencia Forero, has announced that the event will be presented before the OAS and the UN as a serious violation of humanitarian law on the part of Venezuela and an assault against the civil population of the region, reported newspaper El Espectador Thursday.

Authorities in Rangonvalia have delivered preliminary information to Colombia's Ombudsman, Volmar Perez, who has signaled that as a result of the events, an official delegation will be sent to the region to collect information and testimonies and a high level meeting will be held Friday to re-address the concerning security situation along the Venezuelan border.

Read more: http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/6955-vene...



This is Columbia's version of events.

Still looking for a Venezuelan version.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. There's this thread:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #66
73. Militants need conflict.
...Conflict breeds lies.

Same old story. New(ish) story teller.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. That's your story. And if Uribe was even consistent with himself
he'd say he's happy Venezuela is taking steps to clean up illegal border crossings after whining for years about them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #76
91. Uribe and Chavez both need this kind of over-the-top drama.
100-200 bucks worth of explosives, two minor foot bridges, add Press reports, lots of spin:
Millions of dollars in press coverage, international debates, and elevating both men into "heroic" figures, fighting for their national sovereignty, fighting for independence, for freedom, for international aid, for regional diplomacy, over....

...two footbridges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. No sane person can mistake Uribe for a heroic figure. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #93
105. He has more wikipedia than I do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. So does bin Laden. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. Bin Laden isn't a hero to many?
er... I must have missed your point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. He has more paramilitary connections than you do, as well.
And he's so popular!

President Uribes Hidden Past
By Tom Feiling May 24, 2004

~snip~
Noticias Uno told the story of how in 1997, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) seized 50,000 kilos of potassium permanganate from a ship docked in San Francisco. Potassium permanganate is a chemical used in the production of cocaine. The cargo was on its way to Colombia to be delivered to a company called GMP Chemical Products. The owner of GMP was Pedro Moreno Villa GMP, Uribes presidential campaign manager. The chemicals seized were sufficient to produce $15 billion worth of cocaine. The DEA confirmed that GMP was Colombias biggest importer of potassium permanganate between 1994 and 1998, when Uribe was governor of Medellin and Moreno Villa was his chief of staff.

As the Presidential race intensified, journalists became increasingly concerned that media bosses were threatening their editorial independence. Two powerful business groups with ties to the political establishment own RCN and Caracol, the biggest television and radio networks in Colombia. Journalists concerns were further heightened when Uribe picked a member of the Santos family, which owns the countrys most influential daily newspaper, to be his vice-president.

Despite his links to paramilitaries and drug cartels, Uribe won the presidency. But to call Uribes victory a landslideas many in and outside Colombia didis a gross distortion of the facts. Uribe received 53 percent of the official vote, but only 25 percent of the electorate voted. Many urban and middle class Colombians, who have been largely sheltered from the civil war, were thoroughly disillusioned by the peace process of outgoing-President Andrs Pastrana, and backed hardliner Uribe. But the election was hardly a fair one.

Mapiripn is the site of one of the worst paramilitary massacres to date, yet many of the towns residents voted for the paramilitary candidate, Uribe. Father Javier Giraldo of the Colombian human rights group Justicia y Paz was in Mapiripn on election day: There was a great deal of fraud. There were paramilitaries in the voting booths. They destroyed a lot of ballots. This was denounced to the Ombudsman, but nothing happened. Electoral fraud, widespread paramilitary threatsdenounced by virtually all the other candidates during the election campaignand the almost total decimation of the electoral left in the preceding decade all contributed to Uribes election victory.
More:
http://colombiajournal.org/colombia185.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #108
112. Hm...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. This is not good news on either front. War is never good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. Venezuela--the new Iraq. Coming soon to a theatre of war near you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #65
69. That would make a good trampoline in the colombian side
for those who love to swim in the river
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mackerel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. So not what Colombia needs right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. And so not what the world needs now either....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #65
72. Venezuelan VP: Colombian govn't purports to be a victim
Carrizlez emphasized that the Colombian government is trying to divert attention from the real problem, which is the fact that Colombia has become a military base that threatens all neighboring countries and the hemisphere

Venezuela's Vice President and Minister of Defense Ramon Carrizlez Rengifo said that the Colombian Government intends to manipulate the truth in the case of the illegal border gateways that were eliminated in Venezuelan territory by members of the Bolivarian National Armed Forces as they were used primarily for drug trade and smuggling.

"Border passages between two places are agreed upon by the two governments in such places where there is presence of both States. There are special rules such as customs regulations and agreements. Any other passage in the more than 2,000 kilometers of border we share with Colombia is an illegal crossing," he added.

Carrizlez emphasized that the Colombian government is trying to divert attention from the real problem, which is the fact that Colombia has become a military base that threatens all neighboring countries and the hemisphere. "If someone is violating international law is the Colombian government. They are trying to shift from assailants to targets, to make people believe that they are victims."


more:http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/11/19/en_pol_esp_ve...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. "the real problem"...
Good keywords to let a person know that they're about to be lied to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. Colombia needs to make up its mind.
Does Uribe want Chavez to harden the border or not?

And of course the real problem is the massive military aid we pump into Colombia and our military presence there. There is a regional consensus on that point.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #75
80. Surely even you find the timing of this incident a bit odd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #75
87. "the real problem"...
Deja Vu.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. worst possible moment to dynamite bridges...
Edited on Fri Nov-20-09 10:11 AM by ChangoLoa
Of course there's a problem with drug trafficking and militias crossing the border and of course those bases in Colombia are a structural threat, but it's only counter-productive to deal with these tensions by blowing up two bridges that were built by isolated villagers who work, go to hospitals and send their children to school in Venezuela. They've been doing the same for decades.

This looks like a show of force made at the expense of that community.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
81. how dear Venezuela!
they should let folks come across their border anytime! The US does.... :sarcasm:

creepy to see so many defenders of Uribe the fascist murdering pig.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #81
85. The reactions are down right strange.
Some of the comments seem really frantic and illogical. As if the Venezuelan government doesn't have the right and indeed the obligation to secure the country's borders and eliminate illegal crossings, especially in light of the circumstances in the region.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. I'm not sure anyone is arguing that
Most of the criticisms seemed focused around the idea that reports vary, and *if* Venezuelan troops did cross into Colombian territory to destroy these bridges, that's a negative thing - especially right now, when tensions are heightened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. Apparently, Colombia has no control
over it's own territory. That is not new or news, it's been that way for many years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. Neither country is exactly hot at controlling their territory effectively.
Though it's probably fair to say Colombia is worse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. Absolutely! Both Venezuela and Ecuador have told him repeatedly to stop blaming them for the problem
caused by HIS refusal to control his own borders with their countries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #98
110. We may have to agree to disagree on this point, but as I see it,
it's a bit ridiculous to expect Colombia to control its borders when the group its fighting is raising funds, receiving arms, and establishing camps inside neighboring countries - countries which seemingly are making no effort to halt the group's activities. This conflict is bigger than just Colombia and there's plenty of blame to be spread around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #85
99. It creates cognitive dissonance for people who don't believe the US government should secure ours
;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. They don't seem to be the people objecting in this thread.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #99
113. And indeed for those who believe the U.S. should secure its borders.
Of course the U.S. government doesn't have to worry that the Latin Americans coming across our border are here to wage an intensive covert war against it. There are powerful organized forces that wish to see the Bolivarian movement crushed. Clearly the Venezuelans have a much greater concern in that regard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
117. Need to look into the eyes of the men dressed as Venezuelan troops
more than likely they are not the eyes of a Venezuelan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #117
124. Why do you say that? Because it doesn't appear that Venezuela is denying it was behind this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. Because of the past involvement of our own cia and fbi
and no telling the other initial identified organizations we've fielded in south america is where I'm coming from.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. Not to mention, that's how the media in Colombia reports it,
Edited on Sat Nov-21-09 12:46 PM by EFerrari
"dressed as" -- lol. They're so used to Uribe's shennanigans, dressing civilian corpses in FARC uniforms, their own wording shows how used they are to false reports.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. Hey, look, if you have anything that shows Venezuela denying responsibility I'll be glad to give it
a look. As it stands, however, it seems pretty clear that this was a Venezuelan action.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #127
129. Did you misplace your post? My point was about the long suffering Colombian media
not about Venezuela.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #129
130. And, again, the obvious implication of your post was that the Colombian media
didn't buy the claim that those responsible were actually Venezuelan soldiers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. Nope. My point was the Colombian media write their stories
with reflexive qualifiers because they have been lied to so often.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Nov 13th 2019, 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC