Dow surges to 52-week high

[sabra]

Source: CNN Money

Dollar soft after G-20 meeting, boosting gold to a new record. Investors maintain upbeat sentiment, eye developments on potential mergers.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks rallied Monday, with the Dow industrials surging to a 52-week high, after the Group of 20 said over the weekend that it would keep economic stimulus in place.

The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) soared 151 points, or 1.5%, hitting its highest intraday level in more than a year. About 2 hours into the session, 28 of the 30 blue-chip index's components were higher.

The S&P 500 (SPX) gained 17 points, or 1.6%, and the Nasdaq composite (COMP) rose 30 points, or 1.4%.

Finance ministers of the G-20 met over the weekend and pledged to continue government aid. The dollar fell sharply against the euro and British pound, while commodities and commodity-linked stocks rose.

"Stocks and commodities are happy that G-20 will maintain stimulus," said Art Hogan, chief market strategist at Jefferies & Co. "Across the board, it's definitive that commodities are showing signs of strength."

Read more: http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/09/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?postversion=2009110911

[dmallind]

1. Queue the doom and gloomers prattling about "sucker rallies" in 1-2-3

How many sucker rallies can there be? How long can they last? Just like their idol Roubini, if you preach doom and gloom constantly for decades, eventually you will be, for a short period of time, correct - but mostly you will be utterly wrong.

So far I've made quite a chunk of change in this eight month long sucker rally....

[DJ13]

2. I urge you to keep buying

Really, you deserve it.

[dmallind]

7. not much short term opportuinity right now - but hey I can make you rich

The DJIA is about where it should be right now so there is only long term reward for sane index fund investors unlike the obviously artificially low sub-7K days.

But I'll make you rich if you have the courage of your convictions. Give me whatever date you choose - any date in my likely lifetime - when you think we'll drop back below 7K again and I will place as much money as you can desire and I can afford in a guaranteed escrow account which can only be used to buy DJIA index funds from you at a guaranteed rate equivalent to an index of 8000. Whatever the difference is from the inevitable collapse you no doubt see and an index of 8000 is yours to keep - and notice this is not a bet - you don;t have to put up any money at all. You do however have to have DJIA index funds to sell me for that guaranteed price.

Are you REALLY sure? Want to make money from me if you are? You deserve it after all....

[rfranklin]

41. Do you have a stockbroker's license...

Or a casino license?

If not, I think you may be subject to various criminal penalties.

[TheWatcher]

6. "I've Got Mine, Fuck Everybody Else."

Keep Buying, Sucker.

You're buying into one of the biggest Bubbles ever. There is absolutely NOTHING fundamental behind save for Propaganda, Printing, and Blind Faith.

You've learned nothing.

Ignore the Dollar, by the way. Nothing to see there.

Meanwhile, back in reality:

WalMart: Quote of the Night

"There are families not eating at the end of the month,” said Stephen Quinn, executive vice president and chief marketing officer at Wal-Mart Stores, and “literally lining up at midnight” at Wal-Mart stores waiting to buy food when paychecks or government checks land in their accounts.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/11/walmart-quote-of-night.html

[dmallind]

8. Same offer to you as guy above - are you really sure?

Why is it fuck everybody else? Everybody else benefits from a rising market too. If you have no equity savings and no pensions at the very least the increased money available to public companies mean they can invest more in job opportunities.

I'm still waiting for ONE Cassandra with the balls to back up their doom and gloom and make money from me,.

[TheWatcher]

12. "Everybody else benefits from a rising market too."

Tell that to the millions who have lost their jobs, and to the millions more who will lose them in the next two years.

You sit here and make childish phantom bets like a little Frat Boy whose gotten his first taste of manhood, but you don't have the slightest clue what is happening to this country economically.

But hey, you're getting your pound of flesh, so who really cares.

No one cares about your childish little speculative bets and taunting.

Most of the country has not benefited or participated in this manipulated, Artificial Farce, which is about as fake as the Bank Profits from the past three quarters (which were fueled by Mark-To-Make Believe Accounting), and most are just trying to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.

It's all about money to you. It doesn't matter how corrupt, ill-gotten, or destructive fundamentally it is. Corruption and lawlessness are cute, funny, and provide opportunity. What a complete joke of a society we have become.

You simply don't get it.

You've completely bought into the jobless recovery bullshit.

I don't think any of the jobless agree with you, or share your sentiment.

Go worship your Bankster Gods some more.

After all, they're taking care of business for you.

For Now.

[DJ13]

14. Thank you, well stated

:thumbsup:

[dmallind]

19. Any idea how much worse it would be with a DJIA collapse?

Over half the country has equity holdings. Much of the other half have pensions heavily invested in equities. And the one happy that the Dow is up is the harmful one?

[TheWatcher]

22. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

You sit here and DEFEND a criminally manipulated Casino, the complete bailout of the CRIMINALS who CREATED the Crisis, and defend the complete un sustainability of a BUBBLE THAT CANNOT CONTINUE THIS WAY.

The only thing that is REALLY going on is the Greatest Transfer Of Wealth in history from the hands of the many to the hands of the few, and because you're being allowed a few crumbs from the table you think it's good.

I have news for you, Herr Blodget, the ONLY thing that has been accomplished by this farce is TWO things.

The expansion of power and control of the BANKSTERS over the wealth, treasure, and assets of the planet.

And the DELAYING OF THE INEVITABLE.

You simply cannot game the system artificially like this and have a fundamentally sound, functioning economic system that FUNCTIONS FOR EVERYONE, not just speculators, corporatist monsters, banksters, and the criminals who manipulate and control it.

You simply do not get it.

Make your blood money, by all means.

Let's see if you are nimble enough to sell at the top, so you don't have to give a shit about everyone else.

Go You!

[dmallind]

28. Obviously more than you. You are clearly delusional.

[TheWatcher]

32. Your Projection is duly noted. When confronted with reality, childish name calling ensues

And THAT'S where my patience ends.

Now get back to your equally delusional CNBC whores and let the adults alone.

[Thickasabrick]

40. Awesome post - until people start working again I don't see how

anyone can feel joy....except the few that only care about the stock market.

[girl gone mad]

37. "Everybody else benefits from a rising market too"

100% BULLSHIT.

[WriteDown]

9. Why hate dmallind because he's made money on a good prediction?

I haven't made much money, but I'm happy for him.

[dmallind]

11. Because only shared doom and gloom pleases such people. NT

[TheWatcher]

17. No the understanding of REALITY and what happens when the Bubble BURSTS again is the concern

of those who can see this for what it is.

You're too busy "benefiting" from unmitigated bullshit to understand how fundamentally impossible this all really is.

[dmallind]

20. Still not getting PMs taking my easy money from you or anyone else...

Wonder why? Do you really NOT believe what you are saying?

[TheWatcher]

23. Because we don't CARE about the nonsense YOU are saying.

Some of us actually give a shit about the overall well being of the country and the REAL Economy.

It isn't ABOUT making money from your childish bets or being right.

If you had the first clue and understanding about principle, you wouldn't speak such childish nonsense in the first place.

But in the event someone does take you up on your childish game, I would hope they force you to pay in gold and silver, or one of the HEALTHY fiat currencies left, instead of the devalued toilet paper you think is still wealth.

[WriteDown]

26. Okay....

I'll ask the 100K question. What would you change? Elimination of the stock market? Back to an agrarian economy?

[dmallind]

27. S Yeah right - so tell me how the country would be better off with a devalued DJIA?

[TheWatcher]

31. It is going to devalue EVENTUALLY when the next Bubble Bursts

What IS it that you don't GET here? What is it that you DIDN'T get form the last TWO BUBBLES?

What will put everyone in an even WORSE position is a devalued currency in an INFLATIONARY environment, with continued rising unemployment.

But I am SURE you will be on your knees worshiping WHOEVER the Fed Head Criminal is, when he slithers into Congress, asking for ANOTHER Criminal Bail Out.

To understand what is HAPPENING, you first have to have an understanding of what HAPPENED BEFORE.

But you're too busy "benefiting" from it all.

Get back to it Daddy Warbucks.

There is NOTHING you can learn from us "Crazy Whiny DoomPants Idiots"

Happy Trading.

[TheWatcher]

15. Because you cannot understand that this is A BUBBLE based on NOTHING

And when it finally Bursts AGAIN, the fallout will created an even BIGGER Crisis than the LAST ONE did.

One would think the Public would LEARN from what happened in 2000, and CERTAINLY learn from last year.

But they never do.

They just line up to do it again.

[WriteDown]

16. Being anti-investment does not help anyone...

By your logic we should just eliminate the stock market and we'll never have to worry again.

[TheWatcher]

18. You just don't get it do you? YOU CAN'T get it, because you are too wed to the false reality and

paradigms that CNBC and the Criminals like Bernanke and Geithner keep feeding you.

THIS. IS. NOT. SUSTAINABLE.

Look at what is happening to the dollar, Commercial Real Estate, and the reckless Monetization of the debt the Fed is engaging in. LOOK BENEATH THE SURFACE and see how fake all this really is.

Do you really think the "Doom and Gloomers" are just pissed off sour grapes idiots who missed their chance at the Big Money? You actually BUY that apologist bullshit?

For your information I made my share of money in the last two Bubbles, but this is RIDICULOUS.

Bubble Economics DOES NOT WORK. Eventually it will FUNDAMENTALLY DESTROY THE SYSTEM, if it has not done so already.

There is NO INVESTMENT GOING ON HERE.

This is Speculation, manipulation, High Frequency Trading BULLSHIT. Monetization, Infinite printing, and Quantitative Easing GONE HORRIBLY WRONG.

but you won't look into it, or pay attention, because you just want to feel good and believe everything you're told, and watch The Stock market light up like a Pinball Machine, and think the Economy and YOU are somehow Benefiting from it.

This country has become a self-important, self-absorbed, soft, weak-minded, Propaganda soaked ASYLUM.

The Recession DID NOT END because they declared it so.

[WriteDown]

21. So all the union pensions, 401K, etc....

Should just cash out now because there is no sense in keeping the market up? Yeah, that makes sense. :crazy:

You remind me a bit of Phil Helmuth.

[TheWatcher]

24. And you remind me of the majority of the Zombie Public who engages in this Market which is the very

DEFINITION of INSANITY.

Blowing Bubbles OVER and OVER, and expecting a different result.

Again, what happens when the bubble bursts? If the currency collapses?

Oh, THAT'S RIGHT, you don't think about THAT.

You just drink your Propaganda Juice Box, and then when the next collapse comes, you sit in front of Bubblevision nodding with incredulity at the Smiling jackals who shake their heads, shrug their shoulders, and proclaim YET AGAIN.....

"No one could have foreseen...."

And then stare like Deer in the headlights as ONCE AGAIN gun to the head legislation is rushed through, unread, bailing out the Criminals AGAIN, so they can do it to you one more time, until there is nothing left to loot, rob, and steal.

What A Fucking JOKE.

[WriteDown]

25. I think you are confusing bubbles....

with economic cycles. Unfortunately, no one has figured out how to keep an economy rising indefinitely.

You seem fairly sure about your convictions. I fail to see why you will not take the other poster up on his wager.

[TheWatcher]

29. Because maybe I have better things to do with my time and focus on

Than appeasing a childish wager that HAS NO POINT from a child.

I don't NEED his money, nor do I need to make money from him or anyone else, betting on something that would be MASSIVELY DESTRUCTIVE to the country and the economy over all.

I don't NEED to play silly Fraternity "Look how much bigger my dick is than yours" games that are completely pointless.

Dear God, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY.

Treating everything like some high stakes game "to prove I'm right or better than the other guy", or like some silly NFL Rivalry.

This isn't a Poker Game, or Pistols At High Noon.

This is REAL LIFE. The future of YOUR COUNTRY, OUR COUNTRY, The country that our CHILDREN will inherit from the stupidity that WE HAVE LEFT IN OUR WAKE.

Grow Up.

I'd much rather spend my time trying to ENLIGHTEN people to what is going on, so that they can PROTECT the assets they have.

Do I hate people who are making money on this "rally" NO. I know people who are making money from it, but at the same time, they have an UNDERSTANDING of what is going on, how unsustainable it is, and they worry like any sane, thinking person about what the CONSEQUENCES for EVERYONE will be.

They too are trying to enlighten others and speak truth to Power.

What I DON'T like is people who flagellate all over themselves, wagging their profits around like a drunk frat boy with his "gun" in his hand, mocking and taunting everyone like they know something, and DEFENDING and PROMOTING this as something fundamentally GOOD and HEALTHY.

There is a BIG Difference.

[WriteDown]

30. You would actually be removing his ability to invest...

which is what you have said is destructive. Isn't that your objective?

[TheWatcher]

33. What is he INVESTING in?

Again, you simply can't get it because you have no idea what is occurring around you.

I can't help you see, because you are willfully blind.

This isn't INVESTING.

It is mostly artificial manipulation and speculation, that is creating an environment that is UNSUSTAINABLE.

Read up on high Frequency Trading, and get a clue how you aren't part of the club, and neither is the Mortimer Duke Wannabe you are so eagerly defending.

Enough of this nonsense.

It's like watching a blank tape.

There is no point.

Enjoy the illusion while it lasts.

[WriteDown]

34. Once again, I am not hearing any solutions...

Please tell us your ideas.

[TheWatcher]

35. At long last, WHAT FOR?

The Economics Forum and SMW thread are chock FULL of them, and those who pose them are constantly shouted down, mocked, giggled and snickered at, demonized, and pooh-poohed.

Do yourself a favor and Google, Google, Google. LEARN about what is ACTUALLY going on, and develop an UNDERSTANDING for how all this Bullshit REALLY works.

Because until you do that, you aren't going to RECEPTIVE to any solutions, and any that are presented to you will fall on deaf ears. because like most of the public, you aren't really looking for them.

You WANT to believe in the Propaganda you are being told and sold. You WANT to believe in a false reality, and anything that THREATENS that belief, you are going to wed yourself to.

If you think that's a cop out, you have A LOT to LEARN.

And that's my whole point.

I apologize for being so harsh. it's just I have had about enough of this complete fake FANTASY we are being told is real, and I am tired of watching my country not only be destroyed by it, but watching everyone CHEER IT ON LIKE IT'S A GOOD THING.

GO LEARN.

And then you will SEE the solutions for yourself, be receptive to them, and you will join the enlightened.

Until then, people like the poster you are defending will make perfect sense to you.

When people like him STOP making sense to you, you will know you are on the right track.

Try reading "Confessions Of An Economic Hitman" and "The Creature From Jekyll Island"

Peace.

[WriteDown]

39. Research is not a solution...

Please post your top 2 or 3 ideas.

[Sinti]

48. Let me offer a different perspective

Some of us see the current system as fatally flawed. Ever increasing profits for companies means ever increasing mergers, fewer jobs, less pay, cheaper materials, until you have one company that owns the world and everyone else is its slave. It's a kind of black hole-effect. If you take our current system of capitalism to its conclusion that's what happens, unless things fail (which they are at present).

The current system is merely a mental tool we use, it is not a good by itself. It's only as good as it serves those who use it. Adjustments to the system itself are required.

Mainly, you have to realize that every increasing profits is not necessary, sustainable, nor does it support life in general - this is the seed of corruption.

When a corporation has become a monopoly, or too big to fail even if they are not a monopoly, they must be broken into smaller pieces. Most of the corporations we deal with today are not only pseudo-monopolies, but they are multinational. They owe no allegiance to any country, they only need concern themselves with the bottom line. The controlling shares over these multinationals are held in very few hands.

More production actually happens when more people are working, that's just common sense. The wealth of a nation is not in its dollars. Wealth lies in resources, innovation, length and quality of life. What good is it to have a DOW at 10,000 if your schools are crumbling? A constantly rising economy is not necessary, an economy that fits your population is feasible, and probably more attractive for most human beings.

Now may I ask you a question? Factories that sit silent, and homes that sit empty, while men and women are jobless and homeless strikes me as an incredible waste of resources. Please, make the business case for this waste.

Bubbles are problematic, because they depend on the suppression of wages. Take the housing bubble, it only works for you if wages remain lower than the increase in the cost of housing. Otherwise, it's all even, right? When the wages to housing ratio gets beyond a certain limit your bubble pops, and with it all manner of other sectors of the economy are negatively affected. This is why we would prefer to not have bubbles.

[tclambert]

45. What bubble are you talking about? The economy grew 3.5% in the 3rd quarter.

I know you rejected all the talk of "green shoots" a few months back as mere propaganda, but what's propaganda about a growing economy? Looks to me like the stock market is a leading indicator (leading as in preceding), where every economist says unemployment is a lagging indicator and we should expect unemployment to start decreasing in a few months to a year.

Frankly, I think we have in fact started a long and sustainable recovery. I do agree with you that the stock market is a kind of casino. Right now, I think there are a lot of face cards left in the deck. I've been trying to predict which companies would "win" out of this recession. I missed the opportunity to quintuple my money with Ford, but I did gain some on other investments. I don't see any big bubbles out there that threaten to take the market back down into the 8000s. I predict we will see 12,000 before the end of 2010.

When I look back at the predictions of economists early this year, we seem to be following the most optimistic of those predictions. The most pessimistic were still optimistic by your standards. Dmallind and I are confident enough of our predictions to bet real money on them. I think he's being a trifle obnoxious about it, but I substantially agree with him. There IS a game-playing aspect to it, but we are using real money, our own money.

[WriteDown]

10. Delete, dupe.

[Warpy]

3. Look at the dollar

With the dollar falling, US stocks are a bargain to foreign investors.

If the dollar rallies, they'll sell and pocket the difference and the stock market rally will be over.

That makes it a little different from past sucker rallies. If the dollar stays down, the Dow will stay up.

The problem for US investors is that historic P/E ratios indicate the Dow should be somewhere between 6000 and 7000. Stocks are not a bargain for us and domestic fat cats aren't creating a mini bubble to trap middle class investors the way they have in previous sucker rally environments.

[girl gone mad]

38. Correct. The dollar is the new carry trade currency.

This rally has been on such low volume, I don't see where the support will be when the carry trade starts to unwind.

[Zynx]

44. The weak volume argument is not a convincing one. Volume is only really weak compared

to the frenzied pace of the September and October period last year. On comparisons to the last few years, volume is not weak.

That being said, certain components of the market move worry me, such as the inability for the market to advance in the absence of a rise in commodities prices. That is damn peculiar and was not evident in healthier market rallies in the past. At some point, that linkage must break.

[Zynx]

43. Current PEs are high because current earnings are artificially low due to write-offs.

What Robert Schiller and others have done is use 10-year trailing earnings to smooth out this sort of variation of large spikes and huge plunges. By those standards the market is pretty fairly valued. It is actually still undervalued by the standard of comparing earnings yields to Treasury yields, but it is a mistake to make that comparison right now.

[orwell]

4. But...but...

...I thought the health care bill was going to destroy the capitalist system.

You mean the Cons were lying to me?

[smirkymonkey]

5. Yay! The recession is OVER!

:toast:

[Xenotime]

42. Thank you, President Obama!!

[tclambert]

46. Technically, it IS over.

The economy grew in the 3rd quarter. By strict economist's definitions, that's the end of the "recession." They only refer to the downward part as the "recession." Everybody else, though, counts the recovery period as part of a recession. And we've only just started that. It could take years to get back to pre-recession GDP and unemployment levels. I hope only 2 years, but I speak of the pompatus of optimism.

[2Design]

13. they are happy we are throwing a lot of money at pharms, hospitals, and insruance company

with a health bill for corporatsion

[bamacrat]

36. While jobs are the most important thing and usually lag behind the stock market...

I think for the first time we are going to have a bunch of rightwingers saying that the stock market doesnt matter. And when employment drops there going to say that doesnt show how Obama is hurting our country.

[kestrel91316]

47. Let me guess, the RW is crowing about how this is because of stuff Bush did

to save the economy........

[fascisthunter]

49. it's funny how when Wall Street does well, we get screwed

and then when Wall Street does bad, we get screwed again. We really do work for the upperclass. We also pay them our tax dollars... how speshulll.