US Senate Panel Rejects Adding Public Plan To Health Bill

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--The Senate Finance Committee rejected an amendment Tuesday that would have created a government-run health insurance plan, but debate over a proposed public plan is not expected to end at the committee.

By a 15-8 vote, the Finance panel rejected an amendment sponsored by Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., that would create a public health insurance option. Under Rockefeller's amendment, a government-run plan would inherit Medicare's network of doctors and hospitals and pay them based on Medicare payment rates for its first two years.

All Republicans on the panel voted against Rockefeller's amendment, in addition to Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., and Sens. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., Kent Conrad, D-N.D., Blanche Lincoln, D-Ark., and Thomas Carper, D-Del.

Rockefeller argued that a public option is necessary to hold costs down and provide ample competition for private insurers, which he said engaged in "banditry."

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090929-712129.html

[LTR]

1. Key Senate panel rejects public health plan

Source: MSNBC

WASHINGTON - A key Senate panel on Tuesday voted against creating a new government health insurance plan to compete with the private market.

The 15-to-8 vote in the Senate Finance Committee could forecast the fate of the public option in the Senate as a whole.

The outcome was expected but still a defeat for liberals who view government-sponsored insurance for the middle class as a key component of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

Five committee Democrats, including Chairman Max Baucus, joined with all 10 committee Republicans to defeat the measure by Democratic Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33069014/ns/politics-health_care_reform

[Captain Hilts]

2. Are they all going to give up theirs???

[RT Atlanta]

7. +1

What's good for the goose is good for the gander... and all that other shit.

[wordpix]

84. +2 & the bottom line: Senators, YOU have gov.-run health care

Stop your BS lines about why WE shouldn't have it, how bad it will be for US, the public, and how Government-run programs are so terrible. The senators have gov-run health care---on our backs! We want the public option!

:grr:

People, we need a march on Washington NOW for the public option before these aholes give $483 billion in subsidies to the rich insurance companies!

[PSPS]

74. Wouldn't matter. They're all multi-millionaires and could handle having no insurance.

[dave29]

3. heckuva job Senate finance!

meh.

[ShortnFiery]

4. Ghouls!

:grr:

[WriteDown]

5. As expected. nt

[Turbineguy]

6. Now Obama

can go ahead.

[Delphinus]

73. With what?

Wasn't the public option his idea?

I want to go ahead with HR 676 - Single Payer Medicare for All.

[ShortnFiery]

8. self delete

[liskddksil]

12. 4 Against other than Baucus

Carper
Conrad
Lincoln
Bill Nelson

[ShortnFiery]

13. Thanks :-)

[Better Believe It]

15. 5 against It wasn't even close. 15 - 8

[No Elephants]

9. Thanks, Sen. Rockefeller. Schumer's amendment is up next.

[Old Codger]

20. Not quite right

Baucus and 14 of his fellow repubs voted against the amendment....No other way to decipher these votes..

[Zorra]

28. "Five committee Democrats...joined with all 10 committee Republicans..."

And there you have it, brother and sister Democrats, the very crux of the biscuit, as Frank Zappa used to say.
:puke:
Bu*h Dog DINOrats, together with a united front of their republican brethren, voting to quash humane, progressive legislation under orders from their corporate owners. We need to get these traitorous fuckers out of office ASAP.

What should now be perfectly clear to any reasonable American is that we must outlaw corporate personhood, and outlaw all corporate interference in government as well. The penalty for breaking these laws should be mandatory life in prison without parole for any person representing a corporation that approaches a legislator with the intent to influence that legislator.

Next time these piece of shit traitorous DINOrats run for office I'm sending every spare penny to their opponents in the primaries.
:mad:

[WeekendWarrior]

39. Sigh

Why do we have to even put up with this farce? These people must go.

[The Hope Mobile]

43. Ways to contact Baucus

511 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-2602
DC Phone: [phone]
DC Fax: [phone]
Email Address: http://baucus.senate.gov/contact/emailForm.cfm?subj=issue
WWW Homepage: http://baucus.senate.gov/
Twitter: No Known Twitter Account

District Offices:
113 3rd Street
Great Falls, MT 59401 Voice: 406-761-1574
FAX: [phone]
to Great Falls office from Google Maps
122 West Towne Street
Glendive, MT 59330 Voice: 406-365-7002
FAX: Not Currently Available
to Glendive office from Google Maps
280 East Front Street, Suite 100
Missoula, MT 59802 Voice: 406-329-3123
FAX: [phone]
to Missoula office from Google Maps
222 North 32nd Street, Suite 100
Billings, MT 59101 Voice: 406-657-6790
FAX: [phone]
to Billings office from Google Maps
Federal Building, Room 114
32 East Babcock
Bozeman, MT 59715 Voice: 406-586-6104
FAX: [phone]
to Bozeman office from Google Maps
Empire Block
30 West 14th Street
Helena, MT 59601 Voice: 406-449-5480
FAX: [phone]
to Helena office from Google Maps
8 Third Street East
Kalispell, MT 59901 Voice: 406-756-1150
FAX: [phone]
to Kalispell office from Google Maps
27 North Wyoming Street, Suite A
Butte, MT 59701 Voice: 406-782-8700
FAX: [phone]
to Butte office from Google Maps

Party: Democrat
Leadership: None
Freshman: No
First Elected To Office: November 7, 1978
Year of Next Election: November 4, 2014
Previous Political Work: US House of Representatives
Montana House of Representatives
Committee Membership:

[LTR]

10. Key Senate panel rejects public health plan

This thread has been combined with another thread.

Click here to read this message in its new location.

[ShortnFiery]

11. These Democratic Senators need to be DEFEATED in their next primary ... we need Progressives!

"Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., and Sens. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., Kent Conrad, D-N.D., Blanche Lincoln, D-Ark., and Thomas Carper, D-Del."

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. Lincoln is the only one who is up for reelection next year

Who is going to take her out in the primary?

[Blue State Blues]

18. They should be forced to spend the Insurance Co $

to defend their seats in a primary.

[dmosh42]

16. They voted 'NO', but their faces reflected fear...

knowing they are running against the tide. Rockefeller said it best that "the public option is on the march", and will be back again and again. The arguments were pathetic by the Repukes, and they were studdering as they tried to argue against it. What can anyone expect from a millionaires club?

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Baucus is not a millionaire. In fact, he is the poorest man in the Senate:

http://www.rollcall.com/issues/55_32/news/39009-1.html

[mbperrin]

24. So he is such a poor manager of his own finances that he has a negative

net worth, but I can trust him with the national health plan.....

Hmmmm.....something here is not quite right, but it smells like something for sale.

[Christa]

77. Didn't Baucus get $1.3 Million from health insurance

companies for his campaign?




*

[AlinPA]

91. I don't believe that he is not rich, with all those health "care" companies giving him money. nt

[SOS]

105. He's so poor, he lives in a $900,000 home

plus he will cash out millions in unspent insurance graft money when he leaves the Senate.

[FLAprogressive]

17. punked again. Now Obama has an excuse to not push for the public option....

[droidamus2]

19. Baucus is a jackass

When asked Baucus claimed that his responsibility was to get a bill passed his committee that could get 60 votes. I have news for ya Max your damn job is to do the right thing by the American people not to placate the Republicans. You are a prime example of the weak-kneed wing of the Democratic party. You won't rock the boat or stand up to anybody or for anything. As I understand it there are currently 4 other bills 3 in the House and 1 in the Senate that include a public option who the hell does Baucus think he is standing in the way of what the rest of the Democrats and by the polls the majority of people in this country want. Max if you want to work for the insurance companies step down from your Senate seat and go work for them.

[lyonn]

27. Ahhh, shades of Daschell(sp) and Reid

Soft spoken leaders that go along to get along. That is not what most voters voted for. Notice, Daschel is gone and Reid is not popular, will he be the next to be voted out and replaced by a mouthy repubs? The repubs put up with Ensign even tho he "has sinned but repents" god loves him and forgives. That is what his constituents want and they get it. We dems want strong leaders but eventually find we have those that won't back us up! What's the deal?

[wordpix]

85. what can we expect when Fauck-US got $3MM from insurance cos. in '03-'08?

The a-hole's vote and "leadership" are so predictable, it's not funny. :puke: Fauck-US is nothing but a re-PUKE

[orleans]

21. these 5 dems are motherfuckers.

GIVE UP YOUR GODDAMN INSURANCE THAT WE'RE PAYING FOR YOU ASSHOLES!!!

[derby378]

23. Our only hope now is for the House to force it into the reconciliation committee

No public option, no healthcare reform.

[karynnj]

30. There is an earlier step where the HELP and Finance bills are merged

Schumer made the point on one of his 2 weaker PO amendments (he himself preferred Rockefeller's) might get a high enough vote - even if it loses - to show significant support when it goes to the entire Senate.

[Better Believe It]

31. The chances of that happening with a strong public option are none to zero

Look at how the House leadership folded when they went into the House/Senate Conference on the stimulus bill. All of the demands made by the three Republicans who wrote and weakened the Senate stimulus bill were accepted.

[Arrowhead2k1]

25. Insurance companies rejoice!

They're about to make some very rich people even richer! Yay Amerika!

[lyonn]

32. True, true, must go check the market and see how swell

the insurance stock is after Schusters failed too, BS...... Baucus "NO"

[harun]

79. They haven't gone down during this whole debacle because everyone knows their

guys in the House and Senate have had their backs from day one. Even with a public option they stand to gain massive revenue for years before they have to pull back a bit.

[AlinPA]

26. "Primary" those bastards out. I'm sending my money to Act Blue. nt

[wordpix]

86. I keep ignoring the appeals I get from the DSCC, myself

Why support these guys? I'll send money to individuals, but not to the group

[Freddie Stubbs]

104. 159 days until the filing deadline for the Arkansas primary

[Flaneur]

29. Someone remind me why I keep voting for Democrats.

I know they are better than Republicans, but at times, the differences seem vanishingly thin.

Democrats seem like the "nice" wing of the Single Unified Capitalist War Party.

[kenichol]

40. Because the only Senators who voted FOR the public option

...are Democrats: Kerry, Bingaman, Rockefeller, ooooh someone help me.

I continue to support my Senator Bingaman because he (along with most who voted yes on public option) voted NO on the Iraqi War Resolution.

[Iowa]

81. A Democratic party that continues to give a big "fuck-you" to the citizens needs to go...

And the presence of a few good guys in the party isn't a good enough reason to prop it up - a few good guys can't do a damned thing. Either they can get things done as a group, or they can't, and this party clearly can't. And they can't because they don't want to; they no longer work for us.

I despised Richard Nixon and his corporate party in the 60s, and I see no reason to support a corporate party today. The Democratic party is comprised of a bunch of corporatists who hijacked the brand name of the once-great party of FDR, and a brand name sure as hell isn't sufficient reason to support them. Being a smidgen better than the Republican party isn't a sufficient reason either.

I'll be voting third party for the duration. The bastards sold us out.

[The Hope Mobile]

33. Senate Finance Panel Rejects Insurance Option

Source: AP

Senate Finance panel rejects insurance option


WASHINGTON (AP) — Liberal Democrats failed Tuesday to inject a government-run insurance option into sweeping health care legislation taking shape in the Senate Finance Committee, despite widespread accusations that private insurers routinely deny coverage in pursuit of higher profits.

The 15-8 rejection marked a victory for Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., the committee chairman, who is hoping to push his middle-of-the-road measure through the panel by week's end. It also kept alive the possibility that at least one Republican may yet swing behind the bill, a key goal of both Baucus and the White House.

"My job is to put together a bill that gets to 60 votes" in the full Senate, the Montana Democrat said shortly before he joined a majority on the committee in opposing the provision. "No one shows me how to get to 60 votes with a public option," the term used to describe a new government role in health care. It takes 60 votes to overcome delaying actions that Republicans may attempt on the Senate floor.

The maneuvering occurred as the committee plunged into a second week of public debate on legislation that generally adheres to conditions that President Barack Obama has called for. The bill includes numerous new consumer protections, including a ban on companies denying insurance on the basis of pre-existing conditions. At the same time it provides government subsidies to help lower-income Americans afford insurance that is currently beyond their means. It also includes steps that supporters say will begin to slow the rate of growth in health care costs nationwide.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-29-health-care_N.htm

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-29-health-care_N.htm

---

Thanks Baucus!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

34. Any word on the other Democrats voting against it? (nt)

[The Hope Mobile]

41. Also Lincoln and Conrad.voted no

Let him know how you feel about it

Max Baucus
511 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-2602
DC Phone: [phone]
DC Fax: [phone]
Email Address: http://baucus.senate.gov/contact/emailForm.cfm?subj=issue
WWW Homepage: http://baucus.senate.gov/
Twitter: No Known Twitter Account

District Offices:
113 3rd Street
Great Falls, MT 59401 Voice: 406-761-1574
FAX: [phone]
to Great Falls office from Google Maps
122 West Towne Street
Glendive, MT 59330 Voice: 406-365-7002
FAX: Not Currently Available
to Glendive office from Google Maps
280 East Front Street, Suite 100
Missoula, MT 59802 Voice: 406-329-3123
FAX: [phone]
to Missoula office from Google Maps
222 North 32nd Street, Suite 100
Billings, MT 59101 Voice: 406-657-6790
FAX: [phone]
to Billings office from Google Maps
Federal Building, Room 114
32 East Babcock
Bozeman, MT 59715 Voice: 406-586-6104
FAX: [phone]
to Bozeman office from Google Maps
Empire Block
30 West 14th Street
Helena, MT 59601 Voice: 406-449-5480
FAX: [phone]
to Helena office from Google Maps
8 Third Street East
Kalispell, MT 59901 Voice: 406-756-1150
FAX: [phone]
to Kalispell office from Google Maps
27 North Wyoming Street, Suite A
Butte, MT 59701 Voice: 406-782-8700
FAX: [phone]
to Butte office from Google Maps

Party: Democrat
Leadership: None
Freshman: No
First Elected To Office: November 7, 1978
Year of Next Election: November 4, 2014
Previous Political Work: US House of Representatives
Montana House of Representatives
Committee Membership:

[treestar]

35. What is their excuse?

Moran Carper won't say what it is.

[wordpix]

87. "We got OUR government-run health care program. Why should you?"

[seattle_blue]

36. Bad news

I am not sure how to react to this piece of news. The Democratic Party had better figure out how to represent the people who put them into office, and fast! They know what we want, so they better figure out how to deliver. I really hope that liberal Democrats run challenge candidates against the Blue ball Democrats. I have faith that they can still deliver a public option, and hope they do so.
I think they need to thank the republicans for all their "help" and then tell them that we got it from here. RAM THE PUBLIC OPTION THROUGH! JAM IT DOWN THEIR THROATS! SHOW NO MERCY!
Let me get going because I am just getting to pissed off. I AM ON FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NeoConsSuck]

80. Don't bother blaming the republicans

you knew how they would vote before this ever got off the ground.

Blame our party turncoats. Time and time again, they vote for their master's interests, not the little people who put them into office.

[wordpix]

88. apparently, it's not the "little people who put them into office"---it's the insurance corps!

[harmonicon]

37. fucking traitors (nt)

[Norwood]

38. Its a sad reality, but this just shows the public option will not be in health care reform

Thus making whatever they do pass absolutely pointless. I feel physically ill about this, why are people so against everyone being able to have a chance at health care????

I don't get it and its fucking bullshit! Are we really that selfish a country? I got mine so fuck everyone else??? What The Fuck!??!?!

[wordpix]

89. it ain't over til it's over---time to put the pressure on---call senators & flood Fauckus' office

with phone calls demanding he give up his own government-run health care.

I bet the fucker has a nice fat job waiting for him as exec. of an insurance co.

[freddie mertz]

42. Obviously they felt little pressure to support the option...

From you-know-where.

We have all seen this coming for weeks now.

I'm sickened beyond words.

[wordpix]

90. +1

[goodboy]

44. Senate Panel Rejects Divisive 'Public Option'

Source: NPR

The Senate Finance Committee on Tuesday voted down an attempt by liberal Democrats to include a government-run insurance option as part of its legislation overhauling the nation's health care system.

The 15-to-8 vote was a defeat for liberals who view government-sponsored insurance as a key component of President Obama's health care proposal.

"My job is to put together a bill that gets to 60 votes" in the full Senate, committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-MT) said before voting against the amendment by Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV). "No one shows me how to get to 60 votes with a public option."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113301907&sc=fb&cc=fp

Read more: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113301907&sc=fb&cc=fp

---

Fuckers.

[rudy23]

45. It was so "divisive" that over 65% of the country was for it.

Sigh.

[goodboy]

52. even more before the lies started. (nt)

[fascisthunter]

46. "divisive" my ass

fucking corporate sellouts. You serve the minority... we will never forget.

[closeupready]

47. If there is no public option, I will work to defeat those who defeated it.

n/t

[Buddyblazon]

48. It won't pass without it.

So what then? We start all over?

[RoccoR5955]

50. If you saw Rachel last night, Dean was on.

He said to strip out all the money from the bill, and go with the other "good" things in the bill. Like no more denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

[Buddyblazon]

53. Is there any way to bypass the Finance Committee?

[depakid]

66. Of course there is- but that requires leadership and commitment to the public interest

[jsamuel]

49. "divisive"? - Reality takes another hit.

[ShortnFiery]

51. NPR has morphed into the mouthpiece of the ruling elite.

:puke:

[RoccoR5955]

78. Dontcha know that NPR is National Petroleum Radio?

So says Greg Palast, and I believe he's correct!

[goodboy]

54. Senate Finance Committee = Death Panel (nt)

[Plucketeer]

55. Hopping Mad!

When will we know which of the traitor Dems voted for the insurance companies??? We already KNOW that Baucus is boiught and paid for, but I want to know the names of the others. I want to send them letters stating my resolve to see them displaced come next election cycle! :grr:

[closeupready]

59. Baucus, Lincoln, Conrad, Nelson and Carper.

Five Democrats opposed the public option: Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.), Blanche Lincoln (D-Ark.), Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) and Tom Carper (D-Del.).


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/29/first-public-option-amend_n_303228.html

[Plucketeer]

68. Thank you! My pen's spitting smoke already!

[Botany]

56. "My job is to put together a bill that gets to 60 votes" .... Max Baucus

No Max your job was given to you by your bosses in the Health Care Insurance Industry ...... kill the public option.
It didn't have a damn thing to do w/ 60 votes.

I hope that they go ahead and put the public option back into the bill after mark up so these "blue dogs" and
republicans will have to vote against and the will of 70% of the American people

[flamingdem]

58. Which side ARE you on Max, well it's more than obvious now nt

[Chulanowa]

62. I could punch that fucker in the mouth

"My job is to put together a bill that gets to 60 votes" - even if it's not worth voting for, Max, you useless heap of shit?

[bc3000]

75. Only need 51

[tomm2thumbs]

57. rich, corporate insurance industry writing your laws - think hard and enjoy

If you think they'll stop at this, think again. Once they feel the power of their influence paying off, they'll start working on other anti-consumer protections and put their political network to good use on making themselves even more gross profits and cutting people out of the system. Sure you can get health care, but did we tell you about the rates you'll be forced to pay?

These are bottom-line corporations. They aren't going to stop at one potato chip.

[dbonds]

60. Baucus - the representative of the insurance companies.

Time for him to 'explore other opportunities' as they say in the corporate world.

[Solly Mack]

61. Divisive = the corporate masters don't like it

[ixion]

63. "Divisive" is my tax-dollars funding state sponsored terror in Afghanistan

not a public option for healthcare, which would make sense.

[depakid]

64. "Divisive?" -nice right wing framing. Reminding me again why I don't listen to NPR

Even public radio in the states is laced with dishonest propaganda.

[Lorien]

82. Make sure that you write to them and tell them that

My neighbor is one of their news directors. The top only listens to the people who strongly voice their opinion (the right wing ALWAYS does, while the Left rarely says a word).

[laughingliberal]

65. Divisive is a huge mandate on working families

that will enrich the insurance companies even more. Baucus is the best representation the industry could buy.

[Thornleylv]

67. K&R. NT

[Jkid]

69. No Public Option?

Time to kill this bill and start over.

HR 676 is still waiting.

[wordpix]

92. "No one shows me how to get to 60 votes with a public option." Vote your own conscience, fucker

Of course, his conscience is obviously fixed on more millions from the health insurance lobby. He's only gotten $3 million we know of in the past 6 yrs., so far. :puke:

[gorfle]

70. Senate panel votes down public option for health care bill

Source: CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Senate Finance Committee on Tuesday rejected two amendments to include a government-run public health insurance option in the only compromise health care bill so far.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/29/senate.public.option/index.html

[bluestateguy]

71. 18th time this has been posted

[saigon68]

72. Say Nite Night to any bill

These mother fuckers have their lips on the organ of the insurance companies and are leaving teeth marks

[wordpix]

100. OUCH!!!!

[FriendlyReminder]

76. OK people. It's time to get busy in the Primaries and get rid of these pretenders.

[wordpix]

93. before that, how about getting busy NOW & flooding the senators' offices with our demands?

We want the public option NOW.

:think: Some enterprising senator should now introduce a bill stating there shall be no government-run health care for senators and congressmen if there is no public option for the people.

[Freddie Stubbs]

106. Lincoln is the only one up for reelection next year

[Dawson Leery]

83. Why is this being treated as a suprise?

Max Baucus owes his career to the insurance/financial/defense industries.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?CID=N00004643

Schering-Plough Corp $76,200 $64,200 $12,000
Goldman Sachs $47,900 $47,900 $0
KKR & Co $47,000 $47,000 $0
American International Group $46,750 $37,000 $9,750
Aetna Inc $45,250 $35,250 $10,000

Securities & Investment $839,650 $694,150 $145,500
Lawyers/Law Firms $684,354 $472,412 $211,942
Insurance $558,075 $259,525 $298,550
Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $507,313 $203,964 $303,349
Health Professionals $504,641 $120,141 $384,500


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR2009072003363.html

[wordpix]

96. it's NOT a surprise. We need to regroup and get active at these outrages

Thanks for the stats.

[Dawson Leery]

101. I have called and written letters

to various Representatives and Senators.
What else can we do?

We do not have any rallies to counter the "tea parties".

[Meeker Morgan]

94. duplicate sorry please remove

Source: CBS



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/29/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5351095.shtml

[PATRICK]

95. So?

It shows the Blue Dogs isolated and rejecting compromise and unable to muster votes on any alternative if even THEIR plan would be the final version. What they done is get greedy, exposed and ineffective. The GOP is left with an empty bag probably hoping ONLY for the final ways of denying ANY bill getting passed- so that the Dem version can and must be made better without them.

Without the blustering Lilliputian Finance Committee to hide behind in any really viable way, public pressure- long denied a voice- might actually improve the imperfections still extant.

[defendandprotect]

97. Howard Dean was on with Rachel . . . Baucus is deciding this for all of us . ..

and he's merely a buy bought, bribed and paid for by the "for profit" health care industry!

How how we permitted Baucus to stay in charge of the health care hearings????????????????

[defendandprotect]

98. Public Plan . . . preferably now known as .... 'C H O I C E" . . . !!!

[wordpix]

99. Another pro-choice issue...I've got mixed feelings about that talking point

How about: Senators, YOU"VE got government-run health care. How about the people you're supposed to serve?

[defendandprotect]

102. Everyone loves CHOICE . . .

[excess_3]

103. do we have 50 votes ? .. c'mon, somebody knows ..nt