Coroner rules Jackson's death homicide

[Hamlette]

Source: TPM

A law enforcement official tells The Associated Press that the Los Angeles County coroner has ruled Michael Jackson's death a homicide.

The finding makes it more likely criminal charges will be filed against the doctor who was with the pop star when he died.

Read more: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/08/ap_source_coroner_rules_jacksons_death_homicide.php?ref=fpbrk

[napi21]

1. Doc Murray better be talking to his lawyer! n/t

[RavensChick]

2. I had a feeling it was coming!

Let the circus begin!

[ScottLand]

9. Or let the circus continue.

I think we just got a break from it.

[Vidar]

13. It's good for ratings. That's all that matters.

[ScottLand]

33. That's what it's all about!

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. Don't be so cynical.

This needs to be pursued further. It doesn't matter how much money you make, if you consult with a doctor or a lawyer, they have professional ethics to uphold.

[goclark]

58. It should be investigated and I question that Dermatologist

as well.

There was just something I didn't like about him -- saying that MJ had Lupus and on and on about his personal conditions.

Then he turns around and says that he was " just quoting what was already in the news."

He had no business sharing that medical history on television IMO.

He was also the one that had Debbie as his office assistant and she just happened to marry MJ.Then the doctor may have just happened to be the father of the child.

Doctor and Assistant made off with lots of money I bet.

Larry King had the Dr. on and Larry praised him as the "Doctor that was the best in Beverly Hills"
I think Larry even said that was his Dr.
I've been to Beverly Hills Dr's and none were like that piece of crap.

I'm not saying the Dr.harmed Michael but there is some guilt in there somewhere.

Remember that Larry King's wife ( the one that had the fight with him in the middle of Fairfax Blvd -- the 5th? wife that is going with the gardner or so oine much younger?) is also doing a majorr project with the Jackson family -- King and the family are very close.

Huum --

[The Backlash Cometh]

59. Wow. Thanks for the info.

Kind of breaks Larry King's credibility. I know you can't always be responsible for your family members, but you can be responsible for yourself.

Oh, and I assume by this posting that everyone knows that Michael was overmedicated in the hours before his death, which takes away every ounce of crediblity that doctor had.

[goclark]

63. Wow!

He was probably over medicated a lot of times /mot of the times.

Someone mentioned that his BFF Elizabeth Taylor was/is Over medicated. Bet there is a story there as well.

[DJ13]

3. How much insurance did his concert promoters have on his life?

Im asking because that "doctor" at his side wasnt a Jackson employee, he worked for the promoters of his 50 concert comeback tour.

[JenniferJuniper]

4. I've read the insurance was limited.

Seems likely. He may have been almost un-insurable. No one thought he was going to be able to pull that whole tour off.

[CountAllVotes]

5. Murray will rot in jail for murdering MJ

>>The official says the coroner determined a fatal combination of drugs was given to Jackson hours before he died in his rented Los Angeles mansion on June 25. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the findings have not been publicly released.

Forensic tests found the powerful anesthetic propofol in Jackson's system along with two sedatives, the official says.

****
And so be it!

:kick:

[Triana]

15. I hope so. NO ethical doctor would have given anyone a passel of dope like that..

...within a matter of a few hours - topped off by one not even meant to be used in a home - then LEAVE him there without any human or electronic monitoring (electronic monitoring which is REQUIRED for propofol).

I DON'T CARE WHAT MICHAEL ASKED FOR - NO ETHICAL doctor would have done that. Period.

Murray was nothing but a Feel-good Doc Hollywood enabler who was in it for the money. He didn't give a rat about Michael - just about the money. Like - unfortunately - so many other people around him.

Also, it is well known (and was well-known) that Jackson would be worth more dead than alive - sort of makes one go "hmmmmm"....?

Tinfoil hat stuff maybe but the question ought be asked considering this "doctor's' considerable negligence.

Jeeeeze.

[CountAllVotes]

40. that was I said when I first heard he might be dead

that MJ is worth more dead than alive.

Was MJ murdered? YES!!!!

:kick:

[mamaleah]

6. How many people knew that MJ was a drug user and turned a blind eye

because they didn't want to get cut off?

It's going to be real easy for his family to point fingers, though those fingers ought to be pointed at themselves.

[Triana]

19. Bingo. n/t

[EFerrari]

25. You know that the attending doctor left him alone, don't you?

The family has every right to point fingers.

And that family is no more responsible for Jackson's choices than you are.

[mamaleah]

29. Really now.

Sorry but if one of my brothers was a drug addict, I'd do everything to get him the help he needed, even if it meant him cutting me out of his life. The enablers surrounding him were just as responsible as the "doctor".

[EFerrari]

30. Yes, really now. HIs choices were his responsibility

and you have no idea what the family did or didn't do.

[mamaleah]

31. Of course.

Everyone is a saint in your world.

[EFerrari]

34. It's exactly attitudes like yours that make families dealing with drug problems

withdraw at the very time they should be reaching out for help. Who wants to deal with that kind of ugly blaming.

[mamaleah]

35. No it's the worry over whether or not the

addicted family member will cease contact that keeps many from trying to help. The simple selfishness of, "What if he or she will cut me out of their lives" that stops many people.

If you have a family member who is an addict, get them help, no matter how much they hate you for it.

[EFerrari]

41. Selfishness? What other calumny can you level at these families?

Good grief.

Yes, it is exactly this attitude that those families defend against. That and the gratuitous uninformed advice.

[undeterred]

43. How do you force another adult to get help for an addiction?

[EFerrari]

44. There is no evidence that this was an addiction but I guess

it's an op for people to engage in a quick round of Take Your Inventory.

[rosesaylavee]

46. You are so sane. Thank you for this comment.

[JeanGrey]

52. No evidence? Wow.

[TheDebbieDee]

66. A person has to WANT that kind of help...........

If his family had gotten lawyers to declare him incompetent and put him away, MJ would have gotten better lawyers to fight that.

There's a big difference between getting help for a broke-a$$ person that wants help and getting help for a powerful, wealthy person that thinks he's okay!

[JeanGrey]

51. No one could have stopped MJ. How?

I'm sure this doc wasn't the only doc to give MJ tons and tons of drugs.

[noiretextatique]

70. my brother is an addict

we are done with him. when our father was sick and dying, he managed to show up once for an hour. when our sister was sick and dying, he didn't bother to show up at all. do you think he called me when i was diagnosed with breast cancer? no. i haven't seen or heard from him in three years. as far as i am concerned: i have no brother. the drugs took him away a long time ago.

[Triana]

38. I'd be pointing some fingers if I was the Jackson Family - definitely. n/t

[Ecumenist]

47. Well, remember, that if they point a finger at anyone else,

There'll be four fingers pointed back at them.

[JeanGrey]

50. Isn't that the truth. And this ruling will allow them to

say "oh, Michael wasn't an addict! That terrible doc did it all!". Right.

[samsingh]

61. many people are saying MJ wouldn't listen to contrary views

[noiretextatique]

71. drug addicts aren't good listeners

especially if you tell them their addiction is killing them.

[AllieB]

7. Looks like I won't be watching TV for the next month.

x(

This is going to be yet another media circus.

[Soylent Brice]

8. +1

[medeak]

12. ditto esp Nancy Grace n/t

[mamaleah]

18. She is too shrill.

The sound of her voice makes me feel anxious.

[medeak]

28. have a dog with the same problem.

let me know if there is a cure ;-)

[mamaleah]

32. I find turning the station quickly or throwing a shoe at the tv helps.

Usually I just avoid her.

[earthside]

10. Self-Murder, Maybe.

I would estimate that about ninety-five percent of Americans could not care less about this 'breaking' development.

Yeah, the doc shouldn't have given Jackson what he wanted.

A spoiled brat surrounded by enablers ... wow.

Perhaps not suicide, but 'self-murder' or 'self-manslaughter' by an individual who would not take responsibility for their own behavior.

Cry me a river.

[Politicalboi]

21. BINGO!

Yes it's surprising how they all come out and point fingers. MJ knew this stuff could kill him. And you are so right about not taking responsibility.

[zonkers]

42. Do you really think family members have control over things like this. I don't know about that.

[EFerrari]

22. Jackson hired this guy to do a job

and he didn't do it. That's not any form of suicide.

[Triana]

26. He did it - BADLY. n/t

[undeterred]

54. If he were trying to wean Jackson off of one drug

by giving him others- wow, that's pretty risky for a cardiologist. He was taking a huge chance with someone's life.

It sounds like Michael Jackson had 1) a severe sleep disorder and 2) addiction to narcotics and possibly other drugs. He belonged in a hospital where the doctors could recommend the best treatment for his condition. The last thing he needed was a doctor who would follow his orders. In the end it killed him.

[Triana]

56. 100% agree....

...he should have been in rehab/hospital - but I suspect no one wanted to piss him off by confronting him lest they lost their job/money/inheritence/whatever.

He was financially supporting much of his family - he'd always been their cash cow - and that's probably why they didn't try too awfully hard to intervene - those who did try - were quickly slammed out of MJ's life or fired - and some did try - including family.

But MURRAY - nothing but a fool, money-grubbing enabler. He deserves what he gets IMO.

[tinrobot]

11. More like assisted suicide

Allowing the doctor to use that drug might as well be suicidal, because the risks were so high.

[elehhhhna]

20. ya beat me to it. Allowing? More like begging, imploring & bribing?

The Doc's a hack. But I'm thinking it was manslaughter/negligence. Wonder if the J's will try to sue him for malpractice?

[samsingh]

62. seems that way

[vinylsolution]

14. When Jackson died, nobody noticed....

.... how the corporate media's coverage of Gov. Mark Sanford's and Sen. John Ensign's affairs suddenly ceased.

Jackson's demise was amazingly convenient for a beleaguered party drowning in its own family values hubris.

Remember the story that vanished from the corporate media the day Anna-Nicole Smith was found dead?

Clue: billions of US dollars on pallets in Iraq....

[Politicalboi]

16. Oh Please

MJ probably wouldn't have wanted anyone to do time for what he was doing. Who here has bought coke from a friend and if you died from it would you want them to go to jail? We all knew what coke could do. MJ was told what this shit could do. I can't see charging the doc with murder. Maybe lose his license and do some time, but not for murder.

[unblock]

27. i don't give a crap about what mj would have wanted.

criminal justice is about a just society,

the victim's desires, or supposed desires, is the stuff of vengeance, not justice.
or, when it comes down to money, it's the stuff of civil litigation. fine, if mj wouldn't have sued, let his estate pass on that opportunity.

but society has a need to keep criminally negligent doctors off the streets, even if mj was fine with it.

[Politicalboi]

36. I agree

But I don't think he should be tried for murder. MJ shared some of this, and his family.

[unblock]

37. "homocide" doesn't always translate to "murder"

in this case my guess is negligent homicide would be far more likely.

unless they can unearth some deal where the doc was effectively paid to off mj, the doc lost everything by letting mj die, so it would be hard to pin a motive on him.

[Triana]

39. "society has a need to keep criminally negligent doctors off the streets...

... even if mj was fine with it."


SO well said. Murray needs to (also) be made an example of WHY criminally negligent feel-good quacks need to honor their oath - or not take it to start with. The message is that there WILL be consequences (for them - the enabling docs) if they do not.

[Toucano]

45. So you're saying doctors are the equivalent to my local street corner dealer?

That`s an interesting perspective.

[JeanGrey]

53. The fact that MJ has used this stuff shows you how deep

into addiction he was, geesh. Your average druggie doesn't use anesthesia to sleep!

[progressoid]

17. Yay! More MJ threads.

[Canuckistanian]

24. And the show goes on.....

Now I guess we'll have a trial that will suck all the air out of all other discussions.

I hope to God he pleads guilty and ends this three-ring circus.

[Vinnie From Indy]

48. It's 74 degrees here

with a light breeze and very little humidity.

[JeanGrey]

49. Did the good doc hold MJ down and apply this?

Of course not. MJ was a serious drug addict. This was bound to happen sooner or later.

[Triana]

64. he enabled it by giving in to MJ's demands - read up on addition and 'enablers'

The "good" doc certainly knows how to say "NO!" and in fact it was his duty and perogative to do so.

[JeanGrey]

67. If not him, someone else. Or MJ himself. Which he had done

in the past - photos of black areas on his legs the results of iv's gone bad.

This is simply an effort to "clean" up MJ's image for his fans. (i.e, he didn't do anything wrong! He was "murdered")..............

[Triana]

68. That black area was from a spider bite. No one is saying he didn't do anything wrong.

He WAS an addict. Here's a good write-up on how any why it is primarily the doctor's responsibility NOT to enable this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carol-cassella/michael-jackson-a-victim_b_268466.html

"Unfortunately the only point of control lay with the cardiologist on Jackson's personal payroll who apparently forgot his Oath when he cashed his check."

...

"But a doctor's ethical imperative is to be paid for advice and skill, not drugs or an ill-advised, patient-designed plan of care. Demerol, Adderall, oxycontin and propofol aren't stocked on Rite Aid's shelves because the margin between a therapeutic dose and a toxic overdose for these potent medications is not financially negotiable. The cardiologist who treated Michael Jackson succumbed to a blatant conflict of interest: dangerous practice in exchange for dollars. Such conflicts bleed through many layers of healthcare today, from pharmaceuticals to scientific studies to durable medical goods and, yes, even the protected realm of the doctor-patient pact. It is a shadowy cost of healthcare -- in both lives and money -- that few lobbyists are likely to decry, but a cost Congress needs to examine before finalizing our next healthcare financing scheme."


by Carol Cassella
Novelist and Anesthesiologist
_ _ _ _ _

MY comment:

One of the biggest things they taught our family (there are addicts in mine) is NOT to enable an addict. Most doctors or nurses or health professionals or mental health professionals will NOT do so - well, unless they're offered a lot of moolah and they toss their ethics out the window.

Addicts are wiley - they,ll lie, manipulate, beg, hide stuff, plead, threaten, pay ridiculous sums of money if they have it (and even if they don't) or do whatever it takes to get their fix. ADDICTS LIE. That applies to all of them. That's a symptom of addiction.

The edict, then, (or so we were told and so health care practitioners ARE TAUGHT) is NOT to enable them. Don't accept their lies. Don't help them be addicts. Don't hide it for them. Don't give it to them.

In the case of any health professional such as Murray, it's especially egregarious that they would do so because they HAVE BEEN TRAINED in detecting and managing addicts or potential addicts - but if money takes precedence, then that doctor is operating just like our "health care" system does in the US. It's the same problem. It's a system based on profit - NOT good care.

So - unless you're saying that a doctor that bases his 'care' on profit (and his ethics on how much money he's getting) is a GOOD thing - and I doubt you are, then Murray and his "money first, ethics second" system of "care" IS primarily at fault for MJ's demise.

[JeanGrey]

75. Oh I think the good doctor should never be allowed to practice

medicine again. Sorry I never heard about a "spider bite".

I truly felt sorry for MJ, but the truth is, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

[deep1]

55. I knew something was fishy.............

RIP Michael.

[Sabien]

57. yawn

[samsingh]

60. this is a tragedy that was so preventable

[mainer]

65. "Homicide" is just a manner-of-death classification

It doesn't speak to intent, and it doesn't automatically mean criminal charges are filed.

I suspect the charges will, at the most, be manslaughter. Not murder.

[customerserviceguy]

69. It seems like every couple of decades or so

there has to be some doctor-whore who accidentally kills his famous drug addict patient. You'd think that one example a century would be enough, but in every profession, there will always be those who would trade ethics for money.

And rich drug addicts will always find them.

[Crabby Appleton]

72. Yep nt

[superconnected]

73. Every couple of decades? How did anna nicole die? how did heath ledger die?

how do most of them die? Just like this. Some doctor prescribes the meds. Happens all the time.

[customerserviceguy]

74. Good point

But I don't seem to remember any prosecution of the doctor-whores who did the pushing, er, prescribing for Anna Nicole or Heath Ledger. I guess that means the odds of getting punished for being a doctor-whore are less than fifty-fifty.

Good catch there, Super.

[diane in sf]

76. I'd call it suicide by doctor, with a doctor dumb enough to collude.