We were duped, say two British women used in US health campaign

[Merryweather]

Source: Times of London

Two British women who have become the unwitting stars of a campaign to derail Barack Obama’s healthcare reforms yesterday said that their views on the NHS had been misrepresented.

Katie Brickell and Kate Spall said that they strongly supported state-funded healthcare, but their descriptions of poor treatment at the hands of the NHS form the centrepiece of an advertising campaign against the proposed reforms in America.

Both appear in adverts for Conservatives for Patients’ Rights (CPR), a lobby group that opposes Mr Obama’s plans for universal medical insurance, which have caused a transatlantic rift over the merits of the NHS.


Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6795466.ece

---

I'm proud of my fellow Brits - they recognised they were being used and deliberately taken out of context and refused to let the wingnuts get away with it. :patriot: (visualise a British flag there)

Right wingers in the US are like abusive spouses to the UK - they were patronisingly appreciative of us at best ("There's a good dog.") while Bliar was Bush's willing slave. Now times have changed they attack us and try to manipulate us in an attempt to boost their pathetic 'case' against Obama's healthcare reform drive, like a wife beater hits his wife just to boost his tiny ego.

[SpiralHawk]

1. Typical Republicon 'Family Values' Perveted Propaganda

Why do Republicons HATE truth and honor?

[Beartracks]

14. If one must spin when trying to justify one's position...

... and spin and omit and exaggerate and spin some more... then maybe one should reconsider one's position.

Just sayin'.

[Libertas1776]

2. For the love of God

then, somebody get their story up in commercials on every network possible.

[BadgerKid]

7. Maybe they will YouTube it. n/t

[ashling]

3. The word is spelled

recognized he, he, he:hi:

[demigoddess]

6. not in britian he he he

[Ikonoklast]

13. Where is 'Britian'?

Is that the country where they make those water filters?


:P

[ashling]

20. I know that

that was the point of my comment.

[Hubert H. Hubert]

10. You have a colourful sense of humour

What defence could these arseholes have for making such dishonourable adverts?

:hide:

[Merryweather]

12. It is indeed - on your side of the pond

:D But here, we prefer s to z, stick random u's in words like colour, and like our r's before e's when we go to the theatre.

I do actually think American spellings (and pronunciations) make more sense. But hey, we invented the language, so we can spell and say things how we like ;) :hi:

[ashling]

21. I was just joking - a true play on words, if you will

or the spelling of them. Anyway, don't mind me, I'm just trying to get to 10,000 posts :hi:

[Art_from_Ark]

22. It's the French influence

French-- British
centre-- centre
theatre-- theatre
couleur-- colour
organiser-- organise
nationaliser-- nationalise

Blame it on William the Conqueror

[create.peace]

23. /French- oiseaux __British- birds__

[Art_from_Ark]

27. French- jeunes filles-- British-- birds

[create.peace]

28. i was hoping someone would pick up on that!!

vous etes un chic type. un hombre de la rue?

[DRoseDARs]

17. The English don't speak the language, so much as chew on it and spit it out.

-Stewie Griffin, paraphrased

[Vidar]

4. Glad they spoke up.

[baldguy]

5. Their address is listed in DC.

They should get a lawyer & sue the crap out of CPR

[Canuckistanian]

8. They were *gasp* taken out of context by CPR?

I'm shocked. So shocked.

[Laelth]

9. We need a general strike.

That's how they get things done in France. They still have them occasionally in Canada. We have to "make" our leaders do the right thing. Obama wasn't kidding when he said "we are" the change. We have to make him give us single payer.

http://sonic.net/~figgins/generalstrike /

The government is, "and remains, in essence a committee for organising the affairs of the ruling class." Phil Mitchinson - May 2001

:dem:

-Laelth

[Joanne98]

11. Aren't the libel laws in the UK a lot stronger? They should SUE!

[IndianaGreen]

15. You are right! They should sue for libel!

Sue them bastards.

[CLANG]

16. You nailed it. Not much more I could add. eom

[Honeycombe8]

18. I'm not buying it. Maybe NOW they're embarassed, but they went public with

very public strong criticisms against their health care system, knowing full well that the US is debating and trying to get something going.

They had to know. They had to. It's just that they're taking such flack from the public and friends, that they feel compelled to wiggle out of it.

[Critters2]

29. Here's the key:

“My point was not that the NHS shouldn’t exist or that it was a bad thing. I think that our health service is not perfect but to get better it needs more public money, not less."

At least one of them sees the solution as more public funds.

CPR should be sued.

[LeftishBrit]

31. YES

Many Brits who are very keen on the NHS also fight to defend it against cost-cutters, and for more public funding.

Most public criticism and protest here concerning the NHS is in that direction - not for abolition.

It's possible that these women were not fully aware that the debate in the USA is of a very different nature.

[iverglas]

37. and it's exactly the same in Canada

There are excellent criticisms of the system *from the left* -- defunding being the main issue.

Canadians don't have the excuse Brits might have if they become complicit in the right wing campaign against accessibility in the US (Shona Holmes). We do know what the issues are in the States.

A non-politics board in the UK where I hang out had some discussion about Dan Hannon yesterday. (Member of the European Parliament who went on FoxNews to spew about the NHS). One woman's comment about misrepresentations of the NHS in the US media and by US politicians:

What amuses me is....How do they get away with spouting such rubbish about other countries...If it was one of our government spewing such tripe it would be enough for them to start a war over it.......when will they ever get out of their Disney like world and see the real world for a change.....I am not saying that the NHS is the best thing in the world but it has to be better than their system of 'You can only live if you have the money'

Tsk!...am on a soapbox now and it is too small for me.....I spent some time in the US and saw the poverty which was as bad if not worse than some of the third world countries...Yes they have patriotism and wealth...but the other side of the coin is not nice!...give me the NHS any day...warts and all

And she's no wild-eyed lefty, believe me. ;)

[pattmarty]

19. All you Brits ought to try living here. It is quickly turning into Alice in Wonderland shit.

If I was younger and better educated (so I could get a job almost "anywhere") I would move from here in a fucking heartbeat.

[Miss Authoritiva]

24. Yes, yes it is.

From one of the commenters at TimesOnline:

(P)erhaps you could spread the word across the pond that NHS does not lead to socialism. I have been scouring other website and forums on this subject and I am shocked at the level of naiviety that the news channels and sites project onto the people. Is it really that bad over there?!

My eyes teared up.

[Laelth]

47. Indeed. It is that bad over here. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Historic NY]

25. use them in a pro ad here..now....come on people..

[annabanana]

26. Typical. . . reccing it up for visibility!. . . . n/t

[Quantess]

30. Yeah, that's typical.

K & R

[western mass]

32. Conservative Party denounces MPs who appeared on Fox

"The Conservatives have sought to reassure voters that the NHS is safe in their hands after one of their MEPs joined in with US attacks on it."

"Tory leader David Cameron ... has also weighed in to defend the NHS, saying his party was 100% behind it. He has sent an e-mail message to supporters saying: "Millions of people are grateful for the care they have received from the NHS - including my own family."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8200817.stm

[Merryweather]

33. Daniel Hannan is an attention seeking asshat

who got his 5 mins of fame yelling at Gordon Brown at an EU summit and wants to stay in the limelight. But I do love the fact that when our conservative (small c intended) party sees one of their members coming out with crazy stuff, they call them out on it. I'm so used to our right-wingers - BNP fringe excluded - being rational people that the Republicans just throw me for a loop with their insanity.

[drm604]

34. I live in the U.S. and the Republican insanity still throws me for a loop.

You'd think I'd be used to it by now, but they keep hitting new lows. They're actually accusing the President of wanting to euthanize the elderly. If someone had told me that they were going to make a claim like that I would have said "even the Republicans wouldn't go that far, it's too crazy" but here we are.

[iverglas]

38. apparently Brits reacting crashed Twitter ;)

Dan Hannon on FoxNews on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiSPRkq28iU

with viewer comments on Dan Hannon. ;)


http://www.politics.co.uk/news/health/brown-intervenes-in-american-nhs-debate-$1318567.htm

Gordon Brown has gone about as far as politically possible to intervene in the debate over American adverts casting the NHS in a bad light, by tweeting his support for the institution.

Anger across Britain grew by the hour yesterday as details spread of the US adverts showing across the Atlantic.

The ads, paid for by a right-wing group, made several damaging assertions about the NHS in an effort to prevent President Barack Obama's healthcare reforms.

The ads were followed by damaging debate in the US, in which the NHS was branded "evil" and "Orwellian".

A campaign entitled #welovethenhs was set up, and quickly received so much support the site crashed.

[LeftishBrit]

40. Yes,

It would be political suicide for any mainstream party leader here to denounce or try to abolish the NHS. And I don't think Cameron would even wish to.

Hannan is not even a typical Tory, he's a complete loony.

[City Lights]

35. Republicans know the truth is a loser for them. So they lie.

And twist the words of others.

[daggahead]

36. There is a great comment posted on that article ...

Note that the income taxes in Belgium aren't that much higher than here in the U.S., but because they want what's best for Belgians, they offer healthcare and education of choice to all citizens:


A Molly wrote:
Having a social view on important issues like healthcare and education is definately not a bad thing! There is still a big difference between socialism and communism. In my country, Belgium, we pay quite a lot of taxes, about 40% of our income (dont know the exact figure for the US but expect it to be roughly the same), but if were sick, we get to see a doctor at a subsidised rate and all our children get the opportunity to go to the school of their choice, again at a subsidised rate. Were not communist, we just believe that your health or education should not depend on your wealth.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

39. Tell us something, Merryweather, please...

When Great Britain was setting up its healthcare system, what sorts of obstacles were faced by those who were attempting to create it? Surely there was opposition...presumably not unlike that which we face today in the US. How did the healthcare reformers deal with it?

[Merryweather]

42. Well it was set up in 1948

as part of a 'cradle to grave' welfare state by Clement Attlee's Labour Government. The UK has been way ahead of its time on welfare - we've had state old age pensions since 1908( 25 or so years before FDR's New Deal gave you the beginnings of Social Security) and the NHS since 1948, almost 2 decades before Medicare/Medicaid were created as part of LBJ's Great Society).

I don't know a lot about it since that was decades before I came into the world, but from what I've read about it, it seems that there was some opposition to it from the Conservatives, but the most serious opponents of the National Health Service Act were doctors and the British Medical Association, who apparently felt it would strip them of their right to practice independently. They nearly did scupper the NHS Act, but Aneurin Bevan - the architect of the NHS - basically bought them off, or as he put it: "I stuffed their mouths with gold."

There was nothing like the current crazed anti-healthcare reform nuts then in the UK - it was a different time, it was before 'me me me' became the sole concern for an awful lot of people. Also, Britain was in really awful shape after the war - more like America during the Depression than post-Bush America. We needed a massive loan from you guys (which we only finished paying off 3 years ago!)just to survive. People weren't in a position to protest.

[JayMusgrove]

43. I'm glad you know quite a bit about how NHS was set up. Of course

Great Britain was having a difficult time after WW II, and had suffered so many losses and damage during the war.
In a sense, I think the war (ironically) contributed to the public spirit of Brits who were used to the concept "helping each other out" and so the public could support a plan as a majority of citizens were in favor of NHS.

My mother broke her ankle while on a trip there, as a tourist. She was treated and never had to pay a penny. Thankfully the NHS also covers "tourists" who need care while on vacation there.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

45. Interesting concept...

that Brits were more open to the idea due to years of helping each other out during difficult times.

We saw glimpses of that here and there in the days following 9/11, post-Katrina, and similar situations. We forget too quickly. :(

[GoddessOfGuinness]

44. I wonder what concessions Bevin made

that enticed the medical profession to support the NHS Act.

I know these are different times, and this is a different country; but there must be elements of the British experience with building a national healthcare system from which we can learn and benefit.

It's disturbing to me that so many of our nation's poor support the conservative healthneglect agenda. That would seem to be one of the major differences between Britain then and the US now.

Thanks so much for the info. It gives me a few starting points for further research... :hi:

[Merryweather]

46. They were fairly minor apparently

Bevan refused to compromise on its founding core principles:

That it meet the needs of everyone
That it be free at the point of delivery
That it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay

It would be like Obama passing a healthcare bill which kept a robust public option but left out the end-of-life counselling. Every time I hear the term 'death panels' I want to throw something. :banghead: Incidentally, I find it incredible that someone as stupid, as ignorant and as plain nasty as Sarah Palin can wreak so much havoc OUT of public office.

You're welcome for the info btw. Glad it helped! :hi:

[fascisthunter]

41. ah... twisting others words to suit a corporate agenda

it's all the right wing has...

[BrklynLiberal]

48. The RW manipulators also misused Stephen Hawkings..and he also responded that he was

not against the NHS!!!

[Lagomorph]

49. They got Borated...nt