Two dead in shooting at Tel Aviv gay club

[Ian David]

Source: Reuters

Two dead in shooting at Tel Aviv gay club - TV
01 Aug 2009 20:27:36 GMT
Source: Reuters
(Recasts for TV report)

TEL AVIV, Aug 1 (Reuters) - A black-clad gunman killed two people and wounded several others in an attack on a Tel Aviv gay club on Saturday, Israeli television said.

A police spokesman confirmed the deaths, describing the incident as "criminal, rather than nationalistic". Israel's biggest city has in the past been the target of Palestinian shooting attacks.

Eight people were wounded in the club, the police spokesman said. He did not immediately offer further details.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1447731.htm

---

Hat-tip to: http://twitter.com/rakefet27/statuses/3075397181

[targetpractice]

1. 14 Shot, Police close all gay clubs in Tel Aviv, gunman at large...

according to Channel 10 TV in Israel.

[MiaCulpa]

2. More on this:

Via BNO on twitter:


Jerusalem Post: Shooting took place in a building that is used as an entertainment and support center for young members of the gay community

and this just up:


DEVELOPING STORY -- Several dead, others injured after Tel Aviv gay center shooting: http://news.bnonews.com/gri3


-Diane

[Mari333]

3. horrid just horrid

[ck4829]

4. "criminal, rather than nationalistic".

So, Israel too, not just the United States, has that thing where automatically declare that acts of terrorism done by their own people are not acts of terrorism?

[JayMusgrove]

5. I'm wondering, too! By the way, do they have hate crimes laws in

Isreal that would cover gay victims?

There evidently are hate-filled homophobic people in every country, not just the USA.

[Libertas1776]

6. It was probably an overall

hateful, bigoted S.O.B., possibly one of those really orthodox Jews (They're not exactly friendly to the Gay community) or just as likely a Christian and/ or a Muslim. Of course, there are hate filled homophobic people in other countries. Other nations may be more open and tolerant with regards to gays, but we must never forget that their are always going to be homophobes, racists, sexists, religious zealots, etc and so forth. Vigilance for safety is key.

[oberliner]

9. Yes, Israel does have hate crime laws that cover gay victims

It was passed in 2004 and it enables prosecutors to double the penalty for hate-motivated violence or criminal activity which occurs because of the victim's race, religion, national origin or sexual orientation.

[JayMusgrove]

29. Thanks for the information. n/t

[targetpractice]

7. I thought that was a reasonably clear statement about motive.

Terrorism is a tactic, and clearly this was a terroristic act designed to make a statement about gay people.

[bemildred]

8. That just means it wasn't done by Angry Arabs.

This could be a territorial or religious dispute, or something else.

[keepCAblue]

13. Orthodox Jews hate us gays, too. Don't count them out of this "bloodbath"

[bemildred]

16. I'm not counting them out, I'm just saying they are not called "terrorists".

I'm not even saying they are not actually "terrorists", I'm just saying that it's sort of taboo to call them "terrorists".

[oberliner]

17. It is not taboo to call Orthodox Jews terrorists

Baruch Goldstein was labeled a terrorist by the Israeli government and the organization to which he belonged (which was made up of many orthodox Jews) was labeled a terrorist organization.

[bemildred]

18. That's why I said "sort of taboo".

This seems like a dumb argument to me, I'm sure you know what I mean. Right now we don't know who did it, but it obviously is a "hate crime".

I just don't like the identification of "terrorist" with muslims. It has much wider applications.

[oberliner]

19. Well I agree with your last sentence

And in fact, one Israeli gay activist has specifically stated that this was a terrorist attack.

From JPost:

Lior Kay, a gay activist who took part in the demonstration, said, "I just want say one thing. We will not be intimidated. We will not be frightened by this act of terrorism."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1248277945034&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

I would agree with the use of that terminology in this context.

[bemildred]

20. Cool. nt

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

25. I've spoken to Orthodox Jews who lost family in The Holocaust who said that gays should be killed.

I have more contempt for Jews who fail to understand these lessons of The Holocaust than I do for anyone else in the world.

If anyone should know better, it is them.

Even Martin Niemöller (may he burn in Hell) says that his poem "First They Came" should NOT apply to gay people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

[paulsby]

37. are there any examples

of orthodox jews murdering gays due to their orientation? not saying it's never happened, but i've never heard of it.

[mamaleah]

39. Untrue

But have fun with your paintbrush.

Not all orthodox hate gays anymore than all atheists or Reform Jews or Buddhist monks or anyone feels the same way about everything.

[dem mba]

40. hardly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin#Assassination_and_aftermath

[readmoreoften]

10. It was a teen club. He killed children. /nt

[Jkid]

11. Then that is just unforgiveable

You know what happens to those who kill children in prison...

[keepCAblue]

12. KIDS. Gay KIDS at a SUPPORT Group...

Effing tell the WHOLE story, OP. It was a support group for gay KIDS and TEENS.

[targetpractice]

15. That info wasn't available initially...

Like the original poster... I've been following this story since it first broke. The earliest reports claimed it was a nightclub.

The original post probably can't be modified now, since too much time has passed.

[Ian David]

24. I would have, but the whole story was not yet available to me.

I posted it and then went out to dinner.

What I posted was what Reuters was publishing at the time.

Believe me, the enormity of this act of terrorism is not lost upon me.

[IndianaGreen]

14. Ultra-Orthodox party Shas condemns `murderous` shooting in Tel Aviv (Haaretz)

Haaretz news crawler:

02:22 Ultra-Orthodox party Shas condemns `murderous` shooting in Tel Aviv

Victim: There was nowhere to run

A 16-year-old victim of the Tel Aviv gay and lesbian center shooting said on Saturday that he feared the incident would force his comrades to disclose their homosexuality.

"I'm horrified to think that this is the way the parents of some of my friends will find out," Or Gil, who was taken to Ichilov Hospital following a knee and chest injury, told Haaretz.

"At about 10.40 P.M. someone came over, all dressed in black and wearing a black mask," he recounted the unfolding of the incident. "I thought it was a joke at first, but he immediately opened fire. People took cover under the bed and tables, but there were no screams. I hid under a table with someone else. It's a small place; there's just one terrace. Once you're inside, there's nowhere to run."

Gil came to the center every week to take part in activities for teenagers.

"It's for 14-21 year-olds," he said. "There's a couple of facilitators. Teenagers just hang out there, talking and listening to music."

"I love this place," Gil concluded, "but I don't know if I will ever go back there. I want to, but it's too soon to say.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1104506.html

[ruggerson]

21. Here's the link to the corrected story - it was a community center, not a nigihtclub

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-israel-shooting2-2009aug02,0,2362968.story

[Ian David]

22. Thanks. n/t

[MiaCulpa]

26. From the LAT article:

The wounded struggled or were carried up a staircase to the street screaming for help.

"We saw a woman running toward us covered in blood," Adi Shimoni, a patron at a cafe across the street, told Israel's Channel 10 television. "We saw the gunman flee. He was wearing what looked like a ski mask."

Shimoni said he rushed into the center to help and saw "many wounded and a lot of blood."

One of the dead was a identified as a 24-year-old male counselor and another as a 17-year-old girl. The other person killed was not identified. Police said most of the wounded were teenagers. One was listed in critical condition.

Thanks for the link, ruggerson.

-Diane

[Ian David]

23. Queer Allies: Anti-Gay Alliance between chrisTian conservatives, Orthodox Jews & Islamic Extremists

Jewish World Review Dec. 2, 2003 / 7 Kislev, 5764
Queer allies
By Evan Gahr
The little-noticed alliance between gay marriage opponents and alleged terrorist sympathizers
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1203/marriage_terrorists.php3


A whole bunch more here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1274076&mesg_id=1274388

[theHandpuppet]

27. More from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8180069.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8180127.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/

[Odin2005]

28. OMG, he shot up a place for young gay people and killed KIDS? Evil bastard!!!

:cry:

[joeybee12]

30. 3 Shot Dead at Gay Center in Tel Aviv

Source: New York Times

TEL AVIV (Agence France-Presse) — A masked man opened fire on a crowd at a gay community center in Tel Aviv late Saturday, killing three people and wounding at least 10 others, the Israeli emergency services said.

Israeli paramedics evacuated a wounded man following a shooting attack at a gay community house in Tel Aviv on Saturday.
A young man and a young woman were killed on the spot and the third victim died in hospital, the authorities said, and one of those who were wounded was in serious condition.

The gunman, who was dressed in black, unloaded an automatic weapon as he fired on the group of young gay men and lesbians near the entrance of the center, witnesses said, and he then ran away.

No one had been arrested by early Sunday.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/world/middleeast/02israel.html?_r=1&hp

[sakabatou]

31. So sad...

:(

[rollingrock]

32. Fundie nutcases

Islam, Christian, Jewish.

they all preaching nothing but hate and violence.

[Vidar]

33. That's exactly it. It was the wretched fundies that destroyed the chance

for lasting peace in the Mideast by killing Sadat & Rabin.

[Heidi]

34. Horrible.

:(

[oberliner]

35. Two killed: 26-year-old male counselor and 17-year-old girl

The killer has still not been found apparently.

Here is a more recent article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_gay_shooting;_ylt=Ap4OxMdvjrNF9IMPPQudy3qs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTM4MG1jN3RyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwODAyL21sX2lzcmFlbF9nYXlfc2hvb3RpbmcEY3BvcwM3BHBvcwM0BHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5faGVhZGxpbmVfbGlzdARzbGsDcG9saWNlaW5tYW5o

[LeftishBrit]

36. That's just vile.

I hope he gets caught and soon!

[hollowdweller]

41. Will the army bulldoze his parents house?

[Ian David]

42. If his parents are getting a martyr gift from a terrorist organization, sure.

Either way, I would have no problem if they made an example of him and did that anyway.