911 caller in Gates arrest never referred to 'black suspects'

[No Passaran]

Source: CNN

In the police report, filed by Crowley, he says he spoke with Whalen outside the home before he approached Gates' house.

"She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street," the report says. "She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry."

---------------------------------

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

She added, "I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color."


Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/index.html

[MADem]

1. Oh, gee--the policeman didn't tell the truth?

...categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

Two against one...

[No Passaran]

2. not only that

She never mentioned any "black men" in her call to 911. Why would she do that?

And who the most to gain from the situation? She had nothing to gain or lose, the officer did

[MADem]

7. High noon on a deep porch--no one is going to be able to tell "race" from the sidewalk.

Crowley also said he talked to Lucia Whelan (the Portuguese woman from Malden who called in the report) on the sidewalk. He didn't. She said he didn't. I believe her.

I think Lucia, and the woman who approached Lucia expressing concern, prompting her to make the call in the first place, should ALSO be invited to the White House for that beer, too, frankly. Let Crowley look Lucia in the eye and say "I talked to you" when he didn't.

I find the "uncooperative" comment and "keep the cars coming" remark a bit revealing. Not in a good way, either. At this point, race isn't a question--he's facing an old black guy on the phone with a cane. I'm guessing he sees a few suitcases--not backpacks.

Keep the CARS coming? How many cars do you need?

[No Elephants]

70. How many cars do you need? Depends. How many will REALLY intimidate Gates?

[TheEuclideanOne]

271. Oddly enough, TV coverage has not really focus on this since these breakthroughs

It is as though they have suddenly decided to stop covering the story for some reason. The press can go from 24/7 coverage to 0 in just 2 facts.

[RaleighNCDUer]

277. Well, you gotta understand -

Michael Jackson's doctor gave him a shot of a powerful drug.

[TheEuclideanOne]

282. and if Michael Jackson were white, it would still be on tv 24/7

oh wait, bad example...

[TankLV]

191. gee - what a surprise - police LYING...

NOT!

Next we'll be told that "Some of his best friends are black!"...

[MADem]

214. We've already been told that, actually!

He dragged out the black cop in that famous pic of Gates being arrested, who vouched for Crowley's bona fides.

The guy gave a rather "nuanced" interview on local tv, though.

Poor guy--he's not stupid--he knows what "Last hired, first fired" is all about, I'm sure.

[robinlynne]

3. Wouldn't the first police question on the phone be: what do they look like?

[goodhue]

5. She is asked and says she doesn't know, when pressed, says maybe hispanic

eom

[robinlynne]

13. ahhh.

[defendandprotect]

38. Whalen is Portguese . . . and her lawyer says might be described . . .

as olive skinned . . . or Hispanic --

[MADem]

8. She's given the holy trinity of choices--black, white, hispanic? by the dispatcher.

The sun is overhead. It is a bright day, and that porch is deep with a large "shed roof" overhang. The house is set back from the street behind a bit of landscaping.

You're not going to see anything clearly from the sidewalk, some distance away, looking onto a deeply shaded porch. She observed figures and a couple of suitcases.

[MUAD_DIB]

150. Weren't you or one of your buddies condemning

her for being a racist on Friday?


How quickly the wheel turns... :rofl:

[MADem]

182. Weren't you praising the cop, who it turns out, LIED in his police report?

:rofl:

How quickly your teeny little wheel turns, indeed. And how immature your posts are, but that's not news. That's how you roll.

You really should find something better to do with your life, rather than following me around DU constantly with your little ROFL man.

It's suggestive, what you are doing, but not in a "good" way.

[MUAD_DIB]

193. So then you were condemming the witness?

:rofl:


Seems the witness was a racist last week and now she is a hero.

[Name removed]

199. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

241. Those who condemned the witness did so only bc they believed the police

report, which was the only "evidence" available at the time.

That turns out to have been a bad move. Turns out Crowley lied. I wonder if he did so because he was trying to justify his presumption that a well-dressed, well spoken, disabled, 58 year old African American was a burglar.

[MUAD_DIB]

297. Perhaps...

Perhaps they condemned the witness because they wanted to blame somebody without evidence.

[Fedja]

247. well

The information regarding the events changed drastically didn't it? If you mock people for voicing opinions based on available information, do you do the opposite? Do you simply make your mind up regardless of the facts as they are known at the time?

You're not doing yourself too many favors here.

[MUAD_DIB]

298. I don't mock. I point out those who fly off the handle.

[No Elephants]

329. You don't have much self awareness. The mockery in your posts speaks for itself.

[MADem]

360. The thing is, his assertions are false. He can't prove his point because

he's making shit up.

[MADem]

255. Grow up and stop following me around.

And stop hitting the alert button like a petulant two year old every time I point out that you follow me around the board like a sick puppy.

Prove your assertions, you apprentice baiter.

[MUAD_DIB]

299. I haven't hit the alert button on you yet, my dear.

And asking you a question two days later is not "following you around."

:rofl:

[MADem]

312. Yes you have--or one of your alter egos did.

But that's how you roll.

Here you are again, following me around with your ROFL guy.

Like you do.

Can't help yourself, can ya?

[MUAD_DIB]

315. Paranoid much, MADem?

:rofl:

[MADem]

318. You're an expert on the condition, is that it? You're sure an expert on a lot of things!

A real master!

[MUAD_DIB]

323. Since we're all being experts here... ;D

I don't profess to know the guilt of others beforehand.

I don't jump to conclusions like other DUers.

I don't knee-jerk just to follow the DU flock.



I just enjoy calling other people's BS when I see it.


Shrill away at me now, baybay.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[No Elephants]

328. I don't follow the flock, either. But I call ALL sides on their leaps to conclusions. You do so

only with one side, much like RWers here. And I evaluate all the evidence on the table. I don't disregard evidence favorable to one side or the other. You're not objective, but you rather transparent.

[MUAD_DIB]

331. You just jumped to an unfounded conclusion.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


The reactionary DUers are so funny.

[MADem]

330. Fascinating, what some people enjoy. Not much of a life, is that it?

No one particularly cares what you "don't" do (I'll bet you don't often crap your drawers in public--so what?)--glossing over what you did do. How special that you felt a need to make a list, though!

What amuses, though, is how very proud you are of backing the wrong horse's ass! It's....elucidative. Not in a good way, though.

You're a lot like your hero, apprentice.

[MUAD_DIB]

334. And now you're an expert on what every one else thinks?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


You're killing me.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MADem]

339. Naaah. Just on what you think, because you're so transparent. NT

[MUAD_DIB]

340. Tell me everything!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MADem]

341. But....but....you're a know-it-all! You already KNOW everything! nt

[MUAD_DIB]

346. I'm still waiting for your assessment. Got nothing?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MADem]

353. But you already know everything! You're the arbiter of all knowledge.

Why should I give you what you already have, oh Furious Master?

[MUAD_DIB]

357. I'm still waiting...

[MADem]

359. Yes, you are, aren't you? Where are your little friends? Aren't you lonely? nt

[MUAD_DIB]

363. I'm still waiting for your reply. Can't do it, can you?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MADem]

364. You already know my reply. You know it ALL. You always have.

You sure let everyone know that you know it all.

Since you already know it all, there's no need to tell you anything.

How lovely that you've found your little friends, oh Master.

[MUAD_DIB]

365. But that's your line, sweetie. :D

You were telling me all about myself. Tell me more.


So what conclusions have you been jumping to lately?


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MADem]

366. Sweetie, no one can tell you anything. You know it all. NT

[MUAD_DIB]

367. When I argue with the GOPiggies they employ the same tactic that you're

using now. Since they aren't sharp enough to come up with a argument of their own they start parroting mine.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MADem]

368. I'm shocked that you argue with them. You've so much in common. NT

[MUAD_DIB]

369. Really? Tell me all about it if you can.

Be specific. Cite examples. But if you are going to lead with an emotional assault that won't help you.

[MADem]

371. I can. But you're a know it all, you already know. nt

[MUAD_DIB]

372. Thanks. You just failed, lightweight. I'm bookmarking

your failure for future use, and I'm loving it.


Bye :rofl:

[George II]

362. If the cop didn't lie, that wouldn't have happened. Remember, 80% believed bush about WMDs!!

[jhrobbins]

215. Is your ID from 'Dune'?

[MADem]

256. I can tell you where he pulled his EGO from. nt

[MUAD_DIB]

301. My aren't you a silly one. :D

[MADem]

332. You know all about that, I'm sure, little master. nt

[jpak]

4. Oopsie!!11

pants on fire, etc.

[MrsBrady]

209. the officer did seem a bit smug to me.

[George II]

6. Looks like that Crowley guy is a lying sack of shit...

....Obama should make HIM pay for the beers!!!

More police "cover my ass" bull - even the 911 call, regardless of what the witness said (which I would believe over the cop anyway), contradicts what we've been told about the police report.

As Haas said, "this is not over yet", but I don't think he meant it the way this is going to play out.

[It Cant Just Be Me]

114. Funny

Great 1st line. I see the truth is coming out more and more on this story.
If you're able on 28 July 09, tomorrow night join me on my progressive radio show on
www.blogtalkradio.com/EadyMedia
Peace!

[jhrobbins]

216. Well that's just not possible G II, because Mass. cops don't do stuff

like this - this only happens in Texas, et al. The North is a sanctuary of love and peace.
:sarcasm:


I'm just kidding you G II - I agree with you, just trying to point out that age old argument in DU.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. Jackass fabricated the police report

The woman claims to have NEVER personally talked to the police at the scene. Yet the police report claims that she did. The woman claims that she NEVER described the "race" of who she saw (and the tape confirms). Yet the police report claims she described "2 black men...".

It's funny how the media is dancing around the inconsistencies. THIS is "racial profiling".

Waiting for DU members to run to defend this cop in 5...4...3...2...1. :eyes:

[MADem]

10. Oh, I think a lot of the people who were crawling up the asses of those who objected to Gates'

treatment will be nowhere to be found. This is some very inconvenient truth for them. It's not defensible.

What makes it "worse" is that the woman who called in the report was not a nosy white neighbor, she was an "olive skinned" woman of Portuguese ancestry named Lucia Whelan who lived in MALDEN (and who is described as "pained" at being referred to as a "white racist"). She was just trying to be a nice person, doing her civic duty, and she, and the other woman (race unknown) who expressed concern about the shoulder-to-the-door shoving were very careful to distinguish what they DID know, and what they did not know.

I would think that the City of Cambridge would do well to hire Lucia Whelan as a cop. She at least doesn't make shit up.

I also think she should be included in the White House "beer" invite. I'd like to see Crowley look her in the face and say he spoke to her on the sidewalk.

[Hello_Kitty]

56. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Walen did.

She saw two men doing what appeared to be breaking into a house. Now we know she's not from the neighborhood and unfamiliar with who lives there. She was being a good citizen.

[George II]

61. Very true, and she did not do it because of the race of the two men. But the cop made up....

....the story about "two black men", not her. She acted perfectly, the cops didn't!

[MADem]

181. Why do you put that in your subject line, like you're suggesting I found something "wrong" with what

Whalen did?

WTF????

I found NOTHING wrong with what she did. I want Crowley to look her in the face, is all. He claimed he spoke to her on the sidewalk, a fact she denies, and he says that SHE told him there were "two black men with backpacks" on the porch--a fact she also disputes.

I think she needs to be at the White House, drinking beer, and putting her two cents in this discussion, since Crowley has injected her into this story and used her in his police report as justification for his behavior.

[Hello_Kitty]

208. I was agreeing with you.

:scared:

[MADem]

210. OK--no prob. It came across like you were suggesting I was being

unsympathetic to Lucia's POV, and I'm anything but.

Friends?

:hi:

[Hello_Kitty]

211. Of course!

:toast:

[No Passaran]

15. They're here, using "unrecommend" feature n/t

[defendandprotect]

40. The sneaky "Un-rec" ... eh?

Funny, even when I read really dumb stuff that I think the Un's are trying
to use to make a foolish point, I never "un" it --

[MADem]

202. There's seventy seven recs (so far) to overcome. NT

[zbdent]

37. has paulsby crawled out and said anything since the 911 tapes & such came out?

I remember, he jumped on nearly every generalization that came out about cops ...

[defendandprotect]

41. Still around here somewhere . . .

still trying to convince some that "cops are good guys and just misunderstood"!!!

But which 9/11 tapes are you talking about . . . did I miss something???

So much here that it's impossible to keep up at times.

Thanks!

[zbdent]

42. for a moment, I thought you were series ...

[George II]

62. Its the 911 tape, not 9/11 tape, and it's the call to the Cambridge police about Gates.....

...."breaking" into his own home.

Forgotten throughout all of this is that he was already IN his home before the cops got there. The incident was ostensibly over, until the cops made it worse.

[defendandprotect]

171. Thanks . . .

had been reading 9/11 threads . . . and forgot I'd moved on!!!

Got it -- !! Thanks!!


:)

Agree with you --

And, after Gates shows him his license/photo ID and his Harvard ID . . .

Crowley still calls the Harvard Police to come!!

At least that's what I heard on the Ronnie Reagan show -- didn't hear all of it --

[George II]

180. That's basically what was heard on the police tape (not the 911 call) tape....

...another case of police over-reaction due to race. Brings back memories of Amadou Diallo, who was shot 41 times in the hallway of his apartment house because he was taking out his wallet to show his ID.

Outcome? All cops acquitted!!!!

[Number23]

77. +10

[gopiscrap]

309. We need to get a petition going to

fire that fucking cop!!!!

[hamsterjill]

11. Crowley doing a little CYA

Jeez, you think he thought he'd embellish things just a tad after he figured out WHO it was that he'd arrested? The caller did not use the word "black" at all, and did not talk to Crowley.

Makes one wonder what ELSE Crowley might have been embellished a little, doesn't it?

[saigon68]

107. Yes its those "SCARY BLACK MEN" once again

LOL what a POS that Cop is.

[It Cant Just Be Me]

Bad Cop.

As the truth comes out more and more Crowley is looking less truthful.
Hey, if you're able on 28 July 09, tomorrow night join me on my progressive radio show on
www.blogtalkradio.com/EadyMedia
Peace!

[ThoughtCriminal]

152. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[It Cant Just Be Me]

117. Bad Cop.

As the truth comes out more and more Crowley is looking less truthful.
Hey, if you're able on 28 July 09, tomorrow night join me on my progressive radio show on
www.blogtalkradio.com/EadyMedia
Peace!

[George II]

Charles Stuart case once again? Is Crowley going to jump off a bridge?

[No Elephants]

319. The cops in the Stuart case did not jump off a bridge. What's your point?

Is mentioning other instances of racism on the part of the police in that area wrong for some reason? I could see if you said the Stuart case was long ago and things have changed since then, then cited support for the change. But asking if Crowledy is going to jump off a bridge seems off the mark.

[George II]

344. My POINT was that a crime was committed and then blamed on some mythical black man....

...the person who made up the story about "black men" was Charles Stuart, just as the person who claimed he was told by Ms. Whelan that the house was entered by two "black men" was Crowley. Stuart, who made up the story jumped off a bridge once he was exposed as a liar. My rhetorical question was now that Crowley has been exposed as a liar will he jump off a bridge too?

Geeze...you sure turned that one around, didn't you?

[No Elephants]

242. Claiming the perps had been identified to him as "black" is a lot more

than an embellishment in this case. It is key.

Crowley treated Gates like a perp from the jump, even though Gates was well dressed, well spoken, older, disabled and not trying to escape. Also, when a home has two entrances, burglars rarely open the door when a policeman arrives. Would Crowley have acted like a thug if everything were the same, but Gates was a wealthy white man, rather than a wealthy black man?

And Gates in fact turned out not to be a burglar. Knowing that, Crowley had arrested him anyway. Gates had claimed that Crowley's treatment of him was racist. How to explain all that? Well, you were looking for a black perp, so, of course, when Gates opens the front door for you.....

(My guess: By the time Crowley was writing his police report, he knew he had arrested a VIP and not just any VIP, but a VIP expert on African Americans.)

[hamsterjill]

295. Exactly. And thank you.

Your last paragraph made MY point much better than I did in my post.

[George II]

356. According to the police communications and Crowley's own report...

....he knew that Gates was the resident of the house and there was no robbery or burglary.

If he was the level headed police officer everyone claims he was, he should have just turned around and left. But he didn't. And then he lied about what happened.

Even if Gates was on his porch screaming at the top of his lungs (doubtful for an older, semi-disabled man), unless someone on the street complained it was NOT "disorderly conduct"!

Quite honestly, now that everything has come out, if I were Gates I'd sue him and the department for harassment and trespassing!

Damn, I wish that beer meeting on Thursday was never scheduled, or that Obama comes out and says he's cancelling it.

[Spazito]

12. Whoa! This is sure going to fire up the questions regarding the veracity of

Sgt. Crowley's official police report!

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

[No Elephants]

71. Which version of his police report? The first or the second?

[Spazito]

75. What was first thought to be two versions of the same report by Sgt. Crowley...

is actually two separate reports; one by Sgt. Crowley and the other by Officer Figueroa, the second officer on scene. It is Sgt. Crowley's version that is becoming more and more suspect as the details come out for sure.

[WriteDown]

14. Why did her attorney feel the need to say this?

"Murphy also disputed accounts of her client as a white woman in the traditional sense. "The fact is, she's olive-skinned and of Portuguese descent. You wouldn't look at her and say, necessarily, 'Oh, there's a white woman.' You might think she was Hispanic," Murphy said."

[sabrina 1]

20. The lawyer said that because Crowley referred to Whalen

as a 'white female' in his police report.

As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen.

Could be he spoke to the other woman of course, and I don't know whether she was white or hispanic as I haven't seen anything about her, including her name. She was supposedly the neighbor who, Lucia Whalen says, alerted her to the two men on the porch who she otherwise would not have noticed.

Wendy Murphy wants to point out other wrong statements by the officer to back up her client's claim that he was wrong when he said he spoke to her.

[WriteDown]

24. Well, she is White....

She has olive skin. Does that make most Italians their own race?

[sabrina 1]

52. My comment was in response to the question

about why Wendy Murphy mentioned the woman's skin color at all. Not my opinion one way or the other, but the lawyer's own statement about why she felt it important. As a result of being described as a 'white woman' who saw 'two black men' on the porch in Crowley's report, Murphy says her client has been called a racist on blogs and elsewhere.

Murphy also disputed accounts of her client as a white woman in the traditional sense. "The fact is, she's olive-skinned and of Portuguese descent. You wouldn't look at her and say, necessarily, 'Oh, there's a white woman.' You might think she was Hispanic," Murphy said.

I guess her point was not that Whalen is a member of 'her own race', but that you would not when looking at her, immediately jump to the conclusion that she is white, which Crowley did in his report.

My comment was merely presenting Wendy Murphy's defense of her client from being automatically judged as a 'racist white woman'.

[No Elephants]

84. They break it down by white, black or Hispanic.

[sunnybrook]

112. so there are no Asians?

[No Elephants]

238. I was going to comment on that, but I decided to let the 911 dispatcher's assumptions

speak for themselves.

[George II]

131. Pretty surprising, considering it's the racist Boston area, that they included "white"!!!

[No Elephants]

239. Is it?

[EFerrari]

206. She says she's not white. You want to argue with her?

[WriteDown]

269. She sounds like a lot of fake Native Americans

I've met. 1/64th Cherokee on their mothers side. I don't care, but I'm always surprised at people who try to latch on to some other heritage.

[BumRushDaShow]

279. You have apparently never been to Massachusetts

or Rhode Island and are apparently unaware of the population of Cape Verdeans, Brazilians, and Portuguese there. These folks are not "Hispanic" (they don't speak Spanish but speak Portuguese) and a large number descend from a mixed African/Portuguese heritage, the result of the Portuguese slave trade centuries ago.

[WriteDown]

281. Sure I have...

But until I see a picture, I'm not buying it.

[No Elephants]

338. Um, that was her attorney speaking, not her. And maybe the subject

came up because Crowley lied about what she said, resulting in everyone claiming Whalen is racist. Since Hispanics were the only she actually did mention--after prompting from the dispatcher--maybe her lawyer was defensive.

BTW, what makes you think Whalen's Portuguese heritage is like "fake" Native Americans? Intuition? The fact that the tape disproves Crowley's version of what she said?

Massachusetts has a significant Portuguese population. Not sure why, but it does, especially in and around Gloucester, which is a little northesst from Cambridge. And I have a feeling that a picture would not alter your opinion.

Again, though, not the major issue in this case by any means. No matter what Whalen's ethnicity is, she did nothing wrong. And Gates broke no law. Crowley and the Cambridge PD, on the other hand.....

[WriteDown]

348. Just a thought....

Only one thing that I dislike almost as much as racists. Fake minorities. Its a sensitive issue for me because many people try to claim tribe status to reap some of its meager benefits.

[EFerrari]

342. Well, she's not a fake Native American. She's of Portuguese extraction

and is described as olive skinned by her attorney.

[WriteDown]

347. My Sicilian father is olive-skinned...

I will inform him tonight that he is not White.

[EFerrari]

349. You might do well not to decide for other people what they are.

Ms. Whalen does not call herself white and she doesn't identify as white.

[WriteDown]

350. Not anyone's choice....

Its like the people who claim Native American on their applications to take advantage of affirmative action. She may very well be Portuguese, but the denial is odd. I'll wait for the photo.

[EFerrari]

351. What denial? Crowley never interviewed her. And the errors

in his report prove it.

[WriteDown]

354. The whole thing is odd....

I would love to see a dash camera vid of this whole thing. I'm still trying to figure out who the "older woman" was.

[George II]

22. Because she's being harassed and crucified for things she NEVER said...

....typical Boston racism.

[Demeter]

27. THAT Is the Story in a Nutshell

I escaped Massachusetts (Boston suburbs) and I'm never going back and I'm a white woman.

[slampoet]

176. Portuguese IS Hispanic. Nice attorney.

[L. Coyote]

194. NO it is not. It is Portugese. Spain is hi"Spani"c as in Spanish.

And Spanish descendants in the Americas are called Hispanic. It is also incorrectly applied to some Natives from south of the border who are real, original Americans, not Euro-Americans.

[No Elephants]

245. Most use "Hispanic" for Spanish-speaking peoples and their descendants, not only

for people whose ancestors came from Spain. While the Portuguese language is not technically Spanish per se, it is a Hispanic language. But a cop on the street cannot be expected to make those kinds of distinctions, anyway.

"Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico) is a term that historically denoted a relationship to the ancient Hispania (geographically coinciding with the Iberian Peninsula). During the modern era, it took on a more limited meaning, relating to the contemporary nation of Spain.

Still more recently, the term is used to describe the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by Spain, usually with a majority of the population having some ancestry of Spanish origin and speaking the Spanish language. These include Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and most of the Greater Antilles. There are also Spanish influences in the African nation of Equatorial Guinea,<1> and the cultures of the former Spanish East Indies - the Philippines, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands.<2>"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

[slampoet]

308. Try explaining that to The Portuguese Consolate here in Providence.

They use that term in Press releases.

[No Elephants]

246. LOL. Now, we're going to slam the attorney for absolutely nothing? She never said Whalen was not

Portuguese or that Portuguese were not Hispanic (though the latter could be debatable). Her point is only that most people who actually saw Whalen would probably not describe her as "white," as Crowley did, but as Hispanic, if anything. (Why would it be important to Crowley to identify the race of the caller in a police report anyway?)

Is your point that the blame for this mess is supposed to be ABC (Anybody but Crowley). If not, what is your point?

[Startup]

370. I found that very bizarre as well.

I think she was trying to lessen the death threats she was receiving online from those that felt she was a white racist.

Kind of a hey I'm not white don't hate me ploy.

[WriteDown]

16. And who the heck is "this older woman?"

"I just saw it from a distance, and this older woman was worried, thinking somebody's breaking in someone's house and they've been barging in," Whalen says. "She interrupted me, and that's when I noticed. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have noticed it at all, to be honest with you. So I was just calling because she was a concerned neighbor, I guess."

[No Elephants]

72. The older woman is the one who got Whalen to call.

[WriteDown]

267. And why didn't this mysterious "older woman"

call herself?

[No Elephants]

337. She didn't call and tell me. And she is not all that mysterious. Whalen mentions her on the 911

call and you can hear her interjecting as Whalen speaks to the dispatcher.


But what difference could that possibly make? Do you have a point? Or are we just doing shiny object posts, now that we've established that Crowley's police report was not exactly a model of accuracy and honesty?

Big picture: Gates committed no crime, not even if you believe Crowley's report and nothing else. Crowley, on the other hand, refused to give his name and badge number, did not act professionally, trespassed (by not leaving after seeing ID), did not read Gates his Mirandas, made a false arrest and wrote an inaccurate (at best) police report.

[sunnybrook]

115. they were breaking in

with their suitcases on the sidewalk... a new type of burglary where you can just claim the whole house and live there if you get in. This new crime wave in light of the mortgage meltdown... seriously what idiot would think this was a break in with luggage?

[HisTomness]

158. What's your address? I'll bring my luggage.

I would hope if someone busted my door down with a bunch of large bags (even luggage) in tow, that someone would call the police. Seriously, what idiot wouldn't want their neighbors to do something if someone was busting down their door?

[No Elephants]

237. The door was never "busted down." When Gates and the limo driver could not open it, Gates

went around to the back or side door. I agree with you about wanting your neighbors to report anything suspicious, though.

[No Elephants]

235. I don't fault the neighbor or Whalen. They are not experts. I'd want my neighbors

watching out for my property. And I don't blame the police for investigating the call. However, once the cop established that Gates was in his own home and he (Crowley was neither needed nor welcome, Crowley should have left. IMO, he was trespassing after that. Not to mention, he probably gave attitude from the jump. I cannot imagine Gates raising his voice if Crowley had explained the situation politely, before asking for ID.

[Jim Sagle]

17. Any moment now, DU's resident flatfoot will be along to patrol this thread and crack virtual heads.

[HisTomness]

159. What does he do?

Delete comments that are unrelated to the topic at hand?

[Jim Sagle]

163. He's not a mod, just a poster who DEMANDS UNCONDITIONAL RESPECT for ALL police.

[HisTomness]

166. Ahhh - got it!

[grahamhgreen]

18. This is not about race. It's about police who feel that they do not have to obey the law to enforce

The law. Not just police but anyone in power. This goes all the way up the chain to Bush/torture. They feel they are special people and we are on a lower level.

Police do not have the right to Arrest you just because they are angry with you or think you are a jerk.

[Cronus Protagonist]

21. Watch out! The last time I said that about this case, DU'ers piled on to insist it WAS about race

I am always interested when some certain people jump onto the race bandwagon BEFORE the facts are even in the news.

[frylock]

28. the facts are now out..

turns out that the "white woman" from the police report isn't really white, nor did she mention anything about the "black" people that was included in the police report. now, tell me again how race has nothing to do with this.

[grahamhgreen]

31. I mean, It's not ONLY about race, IMHO.

[defendandprotect]

43. It's about a racist cop looking for an opportunity to arrest a "black" man . . .

to embarrass him --

[cyndensco]

48. ...who, in the process, acted stupidly...

[Number23]

80. Glad you cleared that up, otherwise you were about to get a few of the

:wtf:'s from more than a few people here. :)

However, there doesn't appear to be much hope for the person who agreed with your misstatement that "this wasn't about race" in reference to the cop who pulled "two black guys" out of his behind to put on his police report.

[These Eyes]

97. You say that it's not ONLY about race

as though elements of classism and abuse of power should negate the sense of anger and frustration some of us on this board feel. It doesn't work that way. I'm sure you mean well, but making that sort of statement suggests that you are trying to diminish the reality of the role racism plays in the daily lives of some of us.

[Cronus Protagonist]

32. No, they're not really out fully yet

And I'm not someone you can order to dance on command.

[frylock]

92. you'll dance when i fuckin tell you to dance

aight?

[grahamhgreen]

156. OK - It's about race! And this is what's particularly disturbing

Even the president together with a top Harvard professor is not allowed to question the authority of one obscure policeman.

To do so would question the validity of the police/prison state itself.

This we cannot have.

[defendandprotect]

172. Yep ..... and I can't wait to hear the APOLOGY from the Cambridge police dept now . .. !!!

[me b zola]

200. +100

:applause:

[klebean]

285. thx for making this very important point. nt.

[sunnybrook]

118. You make valid points

This is about more than one thing. But race is one of the things as well, not the only factor, but certainly relevent

[La Lioness Priyanka]

273. i think its both. i think when cops see people of color, their entitlement to be extra forceful

increases.

[No Elephants]

320. That's true of racist cops, but I would not impute racism to all cops.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

325. its true of most cops even those who arent overtly racist. racism to a degree is like sexism

we all have some amount of it, unless we have worked very hard to get rid of it, just because of the culture we grow up in. cops are not the only ones who are more likely to be racist, when its not over racism but are just as likely.

we need to be aware that racism much like misogyny and homophobia is not always over or even intended

[sabrina 1]

19. Mmm, somebody's lying:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

From Crowley's police report regarding the caller:

As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further.

[Lerkfish]

25. not sure what you're implying, since crowley's report of what she said is what is in dispute

if you mean crowley is lying, ok. If you're using crowley's report to imply whalen is lying, then you're confused.

[WriteDown]

26. It remains to be seen...

Anyone could be lying at this point. I sure hope there is some dash cam video to put this whole thing to rest.

[Lerkfish]

29. but my point is you can't use crowley's report in and of itself to say whalen is lying

since her claim is that the report is inaccurate.

[No Elephants]

76. The 911 call supports this woman. She was very precise. She said two

suitcases, not backpacks. She never identified the race of the men. She said maybe they lived in the house. The only thing she did not say was that the limo driver was in livery at the time. However, my only source for that was Mike Barnicle, who is not that accurate himself.

[No Elephants]

91. Again, most of the incident occurred inside Gates's home. Crowley kept

asking him to step outside and he wouldn't. As soon as he finally did, Gates thanked him for complying and cuffed him.

[HisTomness]

161. That's an interesting detail

Do you have a reference for this? I would be very interested in checking it out.

[No Elephants]

234. Crowley's police report--the one written the day of the event. And the

statement of Ogletree, Gates's attorney. And statements made directly by Gates.

There was never any reason for Gates to "step outside" of his own home, or any legal requirement that he do so. That was the cop, trying to dominate Gates from the jump. As if a gun weren't enough.

Also, there's no law against raising your voice inside your own home. Outdoors, it could be considered "loud and tumultuous behavior," though there was nothing beyond a raised voice--and that's if you believe Crowley. According to Gates, he could not have raised his voice if he had tried, due to an infection. IIRC, bronchitis, but I'm not certain.

You can see from what seems to be the only photo that Gates, already cuffed, is still very close to the doorway of his home.

[sabrina 1]

39. I was presenting evidence of what Crowley said

which has now been contradicted on two important points by the woman herself. One, she denies his claim that she spoke to him at all, and two she denies his claim that she described the two men as 'black'. The 911 tape backs her up as far as describing the men.

Iow, his is no longer the only record of what happened. If there are any witnesses to support either side, that would help settle the matter. If not, then some will claim she is lying, others will say he is lying.

[George II]

64. But there is one irrefutable "witness" - the tape! Crowley probably blew his police pension...

....when he submitted a false report. In most cities that is a very serious crime, worse than perjury.

[No Elephants]

88. Supposedly, few people ever get prosecuted for perjury. I'm guessing the same is true of filing

a false report. And, I'm guessing the falsehood has to be material and proven. He could say he spoke to a woman on the scene and someone later identified her as Whalen. That someone was mistaken. Not his fault.

[It Cant Just Be Me]

119. Crowley's paperwork

He'd better hope that an apology is all that's asked of him.
Hey, if you're able on 28 July 09, tomorrow night join me on my progressive radio show on
www.blogtalkradio.com/EadyMedia
Peace!

[sunnybrook]

122. are you serious

The cops would follow this guy over a cliff!

[sabrina 1]

160. Yes, the tape does show that she did not say the men

were black. But Crowley didn't use the tape, he claimed he spoke to her in person, which she denies.

However, there is another piece of evidence which again backs her up. She did speak to a police officer, not Crowley. And his report also shows she did not describe the men as 'black'. The officer's name was Carlos Figueroa:

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

I stepped out to gather the information from the reporting person, WHALEN, LUCIA. Ms. Whalen stated to me that she saw a man wedge his shoulder into the front door as to pry the door open. As I returned to the residence, a group of onlookers were now on the scene.

Again, she does not describe the man as 'black'. There are two documented reports of Whalen speaking about the incident. Neither time did she refer to the men as 'black'. So far, it looks like she is telling the truth unless someone overheard this conversation between her and Crowley which she denies ever took place. The facts so far are on her side.

But this is all trivia really. The arrest should never have happened once it was established that Gates was not a burgler but the lawful resident of the home. Too many people, including sadly, Democrats have come to accept a militarized police force in this country. Common sense no longer rules as people rush to defend actions by the police that at best could be described as Obama described this one, 'stupid' and at worst, crossing the line from 'to protect and serve' to 'we are the authority and you better respect us, or else'.

The cop was wrong period, unless Americans want a police state which too many have accepted without realizing the consequences, until it affects them personally.

[No Elephants]

240. +1 and Welcome.

[MADem]

205. Gee, why wasn't this "new" information transmitted to the dispatcher?

Why is there no tape of Crowley saying "Made contact with Lucia Whelan W-h-e-l-a-n. She states two black men with backpacks entered the residence."

What if Crowley went into that house and was killed? By two black men with backpacks?? No one would know, now, would they? They'd be looking for an Hispanic with a suitcase!

He should have provided that "amplifying" information about the race of the suspects and the backbacks to dispatch, just in case he ended up shot...you know, so the police would know to look for two black guys with backpacks as the murderers, and all. That seems pretty elementary to me.

Funny how he has time to push the button and tell dispatch that Gates is "uncooperative" and "keep the cars coming" but he doesn't have time to transmit these KEY and NEW "facts" to dispatch.

And how DO we resolve the "fact" that Lucia Whelan says she never spoke to this cop? Frankly, I believe Lucia. I don't believe Crowley.

[cosmicone]

23. Be afraid, be vewwy vewwy afraid ...

The cops are having doughnuts and coffee on the dead oklahoma cops' thread and any minute they will come here and arrest you all.

[No Passaran]

30. Is there something I'm missing?

I didn't know there was such a division between DUers on this issue.

[Robb]

53. Mostly between the "all cops are evil" and "not all cops are evil" factions

Which frankly can't be expected to come to any real summit agreements anyhow. :D

If anyone asked me, which they of course didn't, I'd suggest it's either a not necessarily but probably either overtly or subconsciously racist cop covering his butt, or a not necessarily but probably either overtly or subconsciously racist bystander (Whalen) covering her butt.

Either way, someone's butt is in the cold, eh?

[No Elephants]

82. Guess you did not listen to Whalen's 911 call.

[Robb]

133. No, I did.

Guess you didn't read my post's time. :hi:

Edited: kant spel fer shet tooday

[No Elephants]

243. The time of your post tells me if you listened to a 911 call?

I mentioned listening to the call because nothing about that call suggests racism on the part of Whelan. It doesn't come up until the dispatcher asks about race, and even then, Whelan says she couldn't tell.

:hi:

[MADem]

213. I don't think all cops are evil. I know some good ones.

I recently buried a relative who was a good cop (retired, didn't die from anything cop-related).

However, when someone fucks up, they fuck up. This Sgt. Jim Crowley fucked up in a big way. It's becoming pretty obvious, too, that he not only fucked up, but he lied about it.

That's just not good.

I don't understand why you would think Whelan would have any motive to lie? She's pretty concise on the 911 audio. She flat-out says, on the recording, that she doesn't know the race of the players in this drama, and she mentions suitcases.

Why would she change her story to the police on the scene? That's not logical.

[No Elephants]

249. You left out the "cop MUST have been right" faction," which could also could be

called the "no cop is ever evil and therefore this cop wasn't" faction. That faction has been quite evident on this board in the Gates threads, even several members of that faction are new to DU (or just used new screen names for purposes of posting on those threads).

[No Elephants]

78. You must have missed the other 84 Gates threads.

[sunnybrook]

124. But I'm in my own home!

And doing nothing wrong! Oh, and white... I'm cool....

[road2000]

33. Whether racial or not...

It bothered me from the beginning that in Crowley's written report, he put quote marks around Gates's claim to a disability. The report was written after Crowley went inside and chose from a selection of canes to bring one to Gates. Therefore, it was obvious that Gates actually had a disability, yet Crowley decided to sneer at it through his use of the quote marks.

My opinion is it's racial. Maybe it wasn't so much in the beginning, but when Gates began giving White Boss some lip, White Boss got nasty.

I don't care how many courses this clown teaches on the avoidance of racial profiling. That doesn't mean he believes it.

[defendandprotect]

36. Agree . . . but I think from the first, Crowley was looking for an arrest to embarrass Gates ...

That's what it's all about --

Gates may have succeeded in life, but this racist has the ability to arrest him and
he's going to do it if at all possible.

Didn't know that about the disability being in quotes -- thanks --

I haven't seen the actual, original written report --

Ron Reagan was reporting on it the other night, but could only listen to first parts of it.

[sunnybrook]

125. I think he was thinking of his own embarassment

or trying to avoid it when Gates kept asking his name and badge number. He may not have known who he was but he knew this was not a man that was going to just "drop it." Let the butt covering begin...

[defendandprotect]

178. Think you're absolutely right --

[No Elephants]

86. Has anyone said what supposedly qualifies him to teach courses on racial profiling?

[sunnybrook]

126. Perhaps he was the most racially sensitive

Which should give us an idea of what the OTHER Cambridge cops are like

[Critters2]

164. Probably so! nt

[George II]

145. As we said when we were children - "takes one to know one".

[defendandprotect]

34. WOW-!!! NO conversation at the scene --!!!! And, no description of "blacks" --!!!

Good of Ms Whalen to get the truth to the public -- !!!

Further, Lucia Whalen is of Portuguese descent . . . .

She said Whalen is "devastated" by such characterizations because she is sensitive about such issues because of her own complexion. Whalen worked down the street and was on her lunch break when she called police.

"She just wants to clear her name. She doesn't want to create more controversy," Murphy said. "She falls outside the plain lines of race, and I think she wanted people to know that."

[wellst0nev0ter]

49. So "Portuguese" Isn't White Anymore? (n/t)

[MUAD_DIB]

60. It is whatever the shrill want it to be.

[No Elephants]

87. The shrill would be the Cambridge Police, then. They seem to break people down by

white, black or Hispanic. According to their own categories, Whalen would be Hispanic.

[MUAD_DIB]

141. Actually the shrill are the reationary DUers, silly.

:rofl:

[No Elephants]

250. Reactionary? Oh, you must mean those who knee jerked to defend this lying cop

in posts on prior threads. Yeah, that was reactionary, especially when even the facts as stated in Crowley's police report alone showed Crowley's actions to have been racist or cop-ish assholery or both.

Silly? Oh, you must mean those who seem incapable of posting without adding a rofl emote, as though that changed anything. Yeah, that is :silly:

Only about 4400 posts since 2002, yet you've been all over the Gates threads? I always find things like that odd.

re·ac·tion·ar·y (r-ksh-nr)
adj.
Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress or liberalism; extremely conservative.
n. pl. re·ac·tion·ar·ies
An opponent of progress or liberalism; an extreme conservative.

[No Elephants]

90. See Reply 87. More significant: Did he or did he not speak to her?

His report said yes; she (or her attorney) says no. So far, what she says has been borne out.

[defendandprotect]

173. The lawyer is making clear that this particular Portuguese woman . . .

is "olive skinned" and can be taken for "Hispanic" --

I'm sure this woman understands racism well enough to have doubled back

to ensure that she could be used by a racist cop to do harm to Gates.

[No Elephants]

248. Or, used as a scapegoat by a cop who had behaved in a racist manner with, as Gates

said, no idea that he (Crowley) was messing with the wrong black man.

[WriteDown]

268. I have a feeling she's.....

1/64th Portuguese on her mother's side from the way she describes herself.

[MADem]

184. People of "Portuguese" ancestry are all colors of the rainbow.

You've never been to Brazil, where the language spoken is Portuguese, or seen travelogues about it on your TV? You've never seen people from the Azores?

Portugal made enormous inroads into Africa, both in the slave trade and as a colonial overseer. So no,
"Portuguese" is not excusively "white."

[L. Coyote]

201. It never was. You can be any complexion color and be "Portuguese"

"Portuguese" means from Portugal!

[BumRushDaShow]

287. She may be Cape Verdean

or Brazilian - which are also Portuguese-speakers/descendents that have a significant population (when compared to other states) in MA and RI. So if she were Cape Verdean, is that "white"?

(As a side-note, the confusion and discrepancies are a result of the idiot founders of this country and their "color code" and nonsensical racial definitions, and "one drop" rules, which have left their descendants backed in a corner trying to define someone. At least in S. Africa, there was a classification called "coloreds" to capture those unknowns... :crazy:)

[zbdent]

35. Well, since it's in a very nice neighborhood, don't the police cars also have

cameras? Or is that only for chasing down speeders in "bad neighborhoods"?

As I recall, there have been PLENTY of times that the police have used their videotape to prove the cops' innocence ... so, where's the tape? Or, was the camera "malfunctioning" at the moment?

[earthlite]

44. The lesson here is never call the police

You only open yourself to attacks and law suits.

[bushmeister0]

45. Hmm . . . a little backsliding perhaps?

"Police Commissioner Robert Haas told reporters at a news conference Monday that the 911 tape and police transmission from that day 'speak for themselves, and I would ask that you form your own opinion.' He added that police always ask themselves: 'If I had to do it over again, what would I have done differently?'"

Is he implying there might be something to the notion that the arresting officer was perhaps mistaken?

Weird, I thought they were always right, like the FHP cop doing on three-point-turn on the Florida Turnpike in the middle of rush hour who didn't have her domes flashing, which caused me to go flying into the guardrail in front of two witnesses. Funny enough, when I finally got her police report I was the mad speeder who didn't see her lights flashing.

Yup, police reports are gospel, you can take that one to the bank.

[Kindigger]

185. I'm replying so I can find your last sentence tomorrow.

I may write about it in my journal. It happened just last week. If I had the money for an attorney...

[happygoluckytoyou]

46. WAS HE ONLY WEARING ONE USELESS GLOVE? m.jackson? OJ? most of the Mets?

[Serial Mom]

47. Many, not all, police feel they ARE THE LAW therefore, can do what they want!

I am a white woman who has lived most of my life in suburban areas, but yet still understand how police like this act towards those who they determine to be different THAN THEM!

I know police lie many times since my BIL was a city cop for years, and when he resigned, our best friend took his position - I heard all the things my BIL did as a cop and heard all our friend did as a cop - some was disgusting to me to the point where I told our friend how disappointed I was in what he did/was doing.

[John K]

50. Can we say Tempest in a Teapot and move on with life???

The opponents of health care are loving this sideshow, while the business of the country is ignored. If I were Obama, I would scrap the beer fest and say that he is sorry he stepped into this and would someone please wipe off my shoes.

[Enthusiast]

116. I've heard that explanation from Limbaugh

"Tempest in a teapot" before.

If your race was frequently stopped for no reason other than driving while black or breathing while black you could relate.

[Kind of Blue]

148. No, we cannot because some of us

can do two things at once and for some of us this is an issue of life or death.

Since this means nothing to your well being, I suggest you move along so we who care can enjoy the discourse.

[No Elephants]

265. NOW, it's a tempest in a teapot? Now, that Crowley has been proven a liar?

Since when is misbehavior and/or racism by cops and lying by cops a tempest in a teapot? If I were Gates, I'd sue.

[bertman]

51. As one of the DU'ers who has consistently said that the actions of Mr. Gates appeared

to be a big part of this incident, I'm going to interject a few thoughts that I think should be considered regarding this post.

First, is there a possibility that Ms. Whalen may be lying about talking to the officer? This woman who was only trying to do the right thing has now been thrown into the middle of a national media shark frenzy. Is there any chance at all that she may be feeling pressured to say that she did not give the officer any description of the people she saw on the porch? Could the anger generated on both sides of this incident have caused her to remember it differently. This does happen.

Second, what difference does it make if she did not give the race of the people she thought might be breaking into the house? The fact remains that she reported what she thought might be a break-in, so the police are obligated to check it out whether she gave no description or said two white guys or two black guys.

Just thought I'd offer some food for thought.

[Hello_Kitty]

57. I thought there was a tape. eom

[sabrina 1]

58. Well, as far as what difference it makes whether she

said the men were black or not, it shouldn't have made a difference. But Crowley claimed she did and made it an issue. As for whether she may be lying now? The 911 tape backs up her claim that she did not say they were black. Did anyone see Crowley talking to her? As far as I know no one has claimed they did.

So far, Crowley is being contradicted by the woman on several key points. Whalen reported what looked like a break-in. The 911 tape shows she was unable to say what ethnicity the men were. Crowley claims he talked to her personally and it was then that she identified them as 'black'. That would mean she changed her mind minutes after the call when the men were already inside the house. Why would she do that, what was there to gain for her to do so? She denies ever talking to him personally.

Both of them can't be right, but so far the evidence leans towards Whalen being right, considering the 911 tape.

None of us know any of these people so all we have is the evidence to go by. And the fact remains, that once it was established that Gates was a legal resident of the home and there was no robbery in progress, the officer should have apologized for the inconvenience (not for answering the call) and left. All his actions after that were wrong, imho.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

59. The story continues to evolve,

and I like that. This is how the truth is discovered. So far, so good.

I'm intrigued by the tale that Ms. Whalen was approached by a woman who witnessed the men on the porch and who got her to place the 911 call.

Who is that woman? Anybody know?

Could she have been the one who talked to the police officer?

Your points are well-taken, bertman, since, at this point, anything is possible. I just like the exploration that continues, and, like peeling an onion, as each layer drops, a new chorus of "I KNEW IT!" rings out.

Fun.........................................

[defendandprotect]

177. Supposedly an older woman on the street upset . . .

Not difficult to see what Crowley was doing --

He referred to Ms Whalen as the person he spoke with when he arrived.

That's a lie according to Ms. Whalen.

He referred to Ms Whalen as "white" -- she wants to make clear she is an

"olive skinned" woman who could be taken for "Hispanic."

Obviously she wants to be no part of Crowley's efforts to do harm to Gates.

Meanwhile, Gates was already inside his home. His Chauffeur was there,

evidently still on the porch or near the car.

Gates identified himself with his license/photo and his Harvard ID.

Nonetheless, Crowley continued to pursue the matter and called the Harvard

Police to come.

At every point along the way Crowley is looking for an opportunity to further

elevate the situation and to move towards arresting Gates.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

189. I have no idea -

you seem to have insights into the thinking and actions of people involved in this situation.

I have no such special information.

I am just waiting to see what happens.

Anyone who draws any conclusions at this point is just a fool, in my opinion.

Still more story to come..........................

[defendandprotect]

305. "Insights" . . . ??? Try reading the reports and the lawyer's comments . . .

[George II]

67. "what difference does it make if she did not give the race of the people................

.......she thought might be breaking into the house?"

The "difference" is that the police officer filed an OFFICIAL report saying that she told him it was two black men! The difference is, if she did NOT say that (or, as she claims, never even spoke to the cop), then the officer filed a FALSE POLICE REPORT. In most cities that is grounds for dismissal.

[law9]

54. the truth

The only person involved in this clusterf*&% who is acting
racist is Mr. Gates

[DainBramaged]

55. Really Mr law9, were you there? I see you've blessed us with your wisdom

Do you have proof, or do you think you can come here and change our minds??? We aren't friendly to rasicts here. Is your name Crappo?

[provis99]

65. hi new person! Ready for a granite pizza?

My bet's on this guy lasting 6 posts.

[No Elephants]

94. New person? Or just a new screen name for someone who usually posts here under another name?

[MADem]

228. I think you got it in one. I hope the admins do a check and figure out who

threw that sockpuppet up, and TCB. Of course, it might be tricky if the puppeteer posts from their computer on the one hand as their DU persona, and from their mobile device for their sockpuppets.

I do hope the admins keep a little file of this stuff. That might help the situation. Sooner or later, every smartass makes a mistake. Look at Sgt. Crowley!

[No Elephants]

251. Who claimed Crowley's smart?

;-)

IMO, DU should ban by IP, not by screen name. You can tell by my screen name, I did not anticipate posting here with RWers. Naive little me.

[MADem]

252. I think he had that opinion of himself!

I think the admins do use IP to ban--the trick is if someone acquires a new IP address, or uses a different means to post.

[No Elephants]

254. I mean that I agree with 50% of your "smartass" description. Just wanted to be clear which 50%.

[Jim Sagle]

203. Hey, times are tough. There's no limit to what some folks will do for free food.

;)

[JTFrog]

259. You gave him far too much credit.

:P

[George II]

68. No, the officer created a FALSE "fact", that Whelan said they were black but she never said that.

[Jim Sagle]

74. Jimrob, is that you?

[No Elephants]

93. Enjoy your stay.

[Enthusiast]

121. Gates was perfectly justified

in his outrage. Who in the fuck are you?

[Cha]

140. Fuck that shite..one thing

is clear and that's..you know nothing about it.

[Spazito]

153. The tombstone has been delivered....

bet you were dumb enough to think you really would get pizza, rofl.

[No Elephants]

253. Maybe not. Some folks are just cowards, poor, pathetic dears.

[cags]

63. So thats the excuse to get Gates outside!!! Crowley could not arrest him in his home.

So he fabricated a reason that would require him to get Gates outside (the threat of another intruder) so he could arrest him for being an asshole.

LOL.

Frankly I think they are both assholes.

[lexanman]

66. Where oh where are the....oh nevermind.

Release the tapes. Gates' is being way too gracious in this. So is Obama.

[It Cant Just Be Me]

120. The grace of Gates

I think Gates isn't being "It told you so" becuase he wasn't in this just to prove a point. I think he figured the truth would come out.

Hey, if you're able on 28 July 09, at 10pmCT tomorrow night join me on my progressive radio show on
www.blogtalkradio.com/EadyMedia
Peace!

[Oilwellian]

187. Dear Derek...

You're spamming and that's annoying. Please stop.

[Politicub]

69. Drip drip drip - Crowley defenders, did you read this?

Unless more evidence comes forward, it's clear who playing fast and lose with interjecting race into this episode. The first volley was made by Crowley

[mr_liberal]

79. I doubt it.

I explained what I think may have happened in the post below yours.

I think after going through the whole incident that Crowley thought she said "two black men" because he did know then that it was two black men. He remembered that part incorrectly and then got it wrong in his report. It was a mistake.

I also think Whalen was there. I think Wendy Murphy, who is very prone to be emotional and defensive, is wrong.

[VPStoltz]

188. According to the now published report...

There weren't three sentences exchanged between Prof. Gates and Off.Crowley before Gates said, "Because I'm a Black in America?"
The more I read about this, the more I am seeing that both of these men acting with a lack of professional respect toward each other.
Officer Crowley, even while living in Cambridge, obviously had no idea who Gates was.
Gates had no way of knowing the Crowley was picked by his superiors to teach "cultural awareness/sensitivity" classes to his colleagues.

[MADem]

229. Where did Gates say that? Gates' account of what he said does not include

that phrase. He said something along the lines of "I am a black man and you are a white officer"--not "Because I'm a Black in America!" Crowley said he said that--but Crowley's got problems with "accuracy" in his police report, now that the tapes have been released and one of the witnesses has come forward.

Here's the problem. There are serious discrepancies in Crowley's report. Serious ones. The witness he says he spoke with is saying she never spoke with him. He apparently "invented" a conversation to justify his actions.

Maybe Crowley's superiors picked the wrong guy. It happens.

[No Elephants]

324. Direct quote...."A crowd had gathered and

as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car I said, 'Is this how you treat a black man in America?'" http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=2,1&auto=true

Read the entire interview: http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=2,0&auto=true

[MADem]

355. Thanks. He did NOT say that BEFORE he was arrested though!

See post 188 upthread and you'll see the context in which I was objecting.

I was taking the quote in the context that it precipitated his arrest, which is what the poster in post 188 is wrongly suggesting. However, Gates already had the cuffs on and was doing the old Perp Walk before he uttered those words.

I read the interview a few days ago--- I was focusing on the events prior to his being cuffed!

[VPStoltz]

373. I read the report on this web site as I referenced it. Just saying...

[No Elephants]

272. Actually, Gates had no way of knowing why he was being hassled. Hence his question, a

perfectly reasonable one, given Crowley's launch into questioning without a proper preface. A perfectly reasonable question for a disabled scholar who had just arrived to his own home from China. A perfectly reasonable question for a 58 year old man born in Virginia. A perfectly reasonable question for an expert on African Americans. And so on. The unreasonable behavior came from Crowley. Please see Post 266.

Oh, and by "published report" do you mean the one Crowley prepared after the fact? Crowley, who has been proven to have lied in that report? Or do you mean one or more of the versions of what Gates and his lawyer said?

[JayMusgrove]

313. Just a little tiny added fact. Crowley does NOT live in Cambridge..

His house is in Needham, about 10 miles from Cambridge.

[MADem]

361. Well, Cambridge is expensive. There's a lot of competition for housing there.

The students drive the market prices up.

A lot of city cops live in the 'burbs.

[defendandprotect]

374. And you see "cultural awareness/sensitivity" in Crowley . . . ?????

"cultural awareness/sensitivity"

Rather, Crowley was picked to undermine the "pro-filing" program and to teach

those in the program how to get around it. How to use it while pretending not to!

[mr_liberal]

73. I find it hard to believe that a cop would

lie in a police report.

My guess is that Wendy Murphy has the story wrong. Ill bet Whalen was there, but that Crowley thought she mentioned "two black men" when she didnt. He remembered that part incorrectly.

The CNN report could be in error too.

[Occulus]

81. That's very funny

:rofl:

[Enthusiast]

123. Really really very funny! nt

[Spazito]

83. LOL!

:rofl:

[No Passaran]

85. oh boy

if my grandma had balls I would call her grandpa

Anyways, nice "handle" you have there.

[mr_liberal]

89. Let me use your post to clarify something.

I know there are cases where cops lie, and in reports, but I see no reason for Crowley to lie, and more specifically, I see no reason why he'd lie about what Whalen said.

Like I said I think he remembered that part incorrectly because he wrote the report probably hours after the incident.

I'm just trying to be objective and not be biased.

But we'll have to wait and see what he and Whalen says. I want to hear Whalen story from her not from Wendy Murphy.

[bemildred]

100. No offense, but Crowley seems like pretty much of a dumb shit.

When Mr Gates freaked out, Mr Crowley ought to have taken the trouble to try to give him the warm-puppy feeling. Instead Mr Crowley freaked out too. Lying in his report was just varnish on that.

[These Eyes]

104. You're really not being objective…

You're trying to defend him by putting thoughts in his mind - he heard her wrong, he thought he heard her say…, he misremembered. Now you want to hear directly from Whalen because I take it you believe she may have said something but simply forgot that she said it. Or is she part of the conspiracy to bring a good cop down?

[AlbertCat]

137. he heard her wrong, he thought he heard her say…, he misremembered.

See....more fine police work! He's an exemplary officer!

[stanwyck]

151. You're reinforcing my view of Crowley. He's flat out incompetent.

Not only was the guy, with two other officers as backup, unable to control a situation of a homeowner, in his own home, being accused of breaking and entering, Crowley (the expert on racial relations) couldn't control his temper against a man half his size who uses a cane. He had Gates cuffed and hauled off to jail. The charges were dropped, of course. They were clearly bogus. And now you tell us the race relations expert didn't have his shit together enough to file an accurate report when referring to race.
Yep. Amazingly incompetent.

[TankLV]

197. "just trying to be objective and not be biased" - umm - TOO LATE!!!

The PIG was LYING.

PERIOD.

From the get go.

And HE thinks he's "not" racist...

HE's about to get a rude awakening...

[defendandprotect]

300. This is your attempt at being "objective" . . .!!!

No reason for Crowley to lie???

How about he was pushing an issue that didn't exist with a notable?

Having ascertained that Gates lived there and was Harvard Professor, he nonetheless
called the Harvard Police to come!

And, he's a police officer who just "incorrectly remembered" that he didn't have a
conversation with Whalen?

And, I'd suggest, if we see this much distortion is such a simple affair as this
SHOULD have been, I'd be interested in what his past behavior may have been.

[No Elephants]

98. No, police never lie, especially in a police report prepared afer they discover they've

arrested what may be Cambridge's biggest celebrity resident for doing nothing more than being at home.

Good luck trying to convince anyone on that one.

[sunnybrook]

128. Yeah!

What No Elephants said!

[John K]

108. He forgot?? Cops have been known to take notes.

I don't buy the memory defence.

[MADem]

230. They also radio NEW information to dispatch.

Funny how he managed to radio in that the uppity professor was being "uncooperative" and to "keep the cars coming," but he "forgot" to radio in that the suspects were identified as black (a new piece of information that is salient to the case) and they were carrying backpacks (another new piece of information), not suitcases.

Funny, too, that he "forgot" to tell dispatch that he was interacting with the witness on the sidewalk.

A lot of things are "funny" here, aren't they!

[mrbarber]

109. I find it hard to believe that a cop would lie in a police report.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks. I need a laugh.

[mr_liberal]

127. I meant that I think its a rarity,

and I see no reason why Crowley would lie about this incident.

Let me ask you something though. Why would he lie and say Whalen mentioned "two black men" when that would make it look like it was a racial incident from the start?

It looks much better for him if the race of the suspects was not known from the start. Thats why his lying about that makes no sense. And why I think he just remembered that part incorrectly.

It was a brief conversation that he had from a distance in passing, and I'm sure didn't stick in his mind the way what happened between him and Prof Gates did.

Thats what my guess is. I admit its just a guess.

Youre welcome for the laugh ;-)

[sabrina 1]

170. Only one thing wrong with your

assumptions. Crowley didn't speak to Whalen at all. Unless you think SHE is lying. Which is your right of course.

The problem for Crowley is that the 911 tape backs up Whalen's assertion that she was unable to tell the ethnicity of the men and so she did not say they were black.

Then, there is the report of the second cop, Carlos Figueroa that also backs her up. She DID talk to him and his report shows again, that she never referred to the men as 'black'.

It is possible that Crowley spoke to someone else, the neighbor maybe. But if he could not tell who he was talking to, the best you can say about him is that he is imcompetent. Not to mention that he loses his cool far too easily.

Meantime, he wrongfully arrested a man. That is not in dispute at all. Citizens CAN get angry at people they hire when they mess up the job we give them to do. That is not a crime, no matter how much a cop might want it to be. They forget too often who pays their salaries.

[mr_liberal]

183. I saw Wendy Murphy (Whalen's lawyer) on several shows tonight

(CNN for one: Anderson Cooper 360) say that Whalen did talk to Crowley very briefly after he got on the scene on his way into the house. She was on the sidewalk; the impression I got is that she was maybe 5 or 10 yards away from where he was.

I was right. She didn't say "two black men". He just got that wrong in his report. And Murphy also said that the Cambridge police and Crowley has already admitted that.

I don't know if you want to call it remembering incorrectly or just rushing his report, but he didn't lie. It was a mistake. An sloppy, but innocent one imo.

One more thing, Murphy said that Whalen felt the arrest "was appropriate". That she heard very loud yelling and the only voice she heard was Gates.

I also heard on another show that Gates was warned by Crowley several times to lower his voice on the porch (in public) and even showed Gates his handcuffs and Gates would not stop and go back inside. Thats when Crowley arrested him. (That was what a reporter said, that wasnt from Wendy Murphy or Whalen).

[TankLV]

198. so he was WRONG on practically EVERYTHING, but somehow - THIS PIG is not the one LYING...

now really, KKKarl, don't you have some obama bashing to do?!!!

[U4ikLefty]

212. Funny, becasue CNN's latests story suggests the opposite.

According to the article below:

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

Here's the article: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/index.html?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail

You should get on them to correct that...lol

[sabrina 1]

290. Do you have a link to that because I could find nothing

showing Wendy Murphy backing away from her statement that her client 'never spoke to Crowley at the scene'.

Nor have I found anything showing the cops admitting that Whalen never mentioned the ethnicity of the men.

As for Gates yelling at a cop who so far has gotten so much wrong according to the evidence, that is NOT illegal so if you're using that as an excuse for an arrest, God help this country if things have gotten to that point and citizens are going along with it.

'He showed Gates his handcuffs'! Wow! Threatening the lawful resident of the home, using the power that is his only because it was given to him by the people to scare someone with rather than using logic and reason. No wonder Gates was upset.

I am also searching for Whalen's opinion of Gates arrest, but haven't found it. However, her OPINION is of no value, everyone has one. Her role in the affair and what she actually did and said are all that matter. She is simply wrong, if that is her opinion. I know we have been heading towards being a police state where citizens are terrified of the police for a while now, but officially we are not there yet and until it is official, no one gets arrested for being annoyed at a cop particularly in their own home. You forget, his own superiors did not agree with him as the charges were quickly dropped.

If you want to live in that kind of country, I hope you are in the minority.

[Cha]

142. That's fucking

hysterical.

[marshall]

168. Wasn't the last time that happened in the OJ case?

And it only clouded the effectiveness of a trial.

[Rincewind]

192. ROFLMAO !

Over the years, I've had the opportunities to read two police reports about incidents I was involved with. In both cases, the police officer lied in his report. Not minor errors, or a misinterpretation, flat out lies. Denying things that happened, claiming things happened that never happened. Police do lie in their reports.

[TankLV]

196. ...find it hard to believe that a cop would lie...

and there in lies YOUR problem...

[Jim Sagle]

204. Yeah, you're mr_liberal the wame way Lou Dobbs is Mr. Independent.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Thothmes]

95. Has anyone heard the tape from 911 dispatch to the officers

describing the complaint and directing them to the scene.

[No Elephants]

99. I have. The transcripts will probably get published soon. In fact, I bet they are online already.

[Spazito]

102. Yes, here is the link to both the 911 call and the back and forth between

Sgt. Crowley and ECC:

http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2009/07/videos-cambridge-911-call-excerpts.html

[Thothmes]

110. Thanks

[DallasNE]

96. So, What Is To Be Believed

On the record, Ms. Whalen never mentioned race on the 911 call but when pressed for a description he said one may be Hispanic. Sgt. Crowley wrote on the police report that he spoke to her at the scene and she describe two black men attempting to wedge open the door. Ms. Whalen's attorney (why does a witness need an attorney) says his client denies talking to a police officer at the scene. Both cannot be true yet it is unclear why either would be lying. Why would Wendy Murphy not offer up that her client would take a lie detector test to clear her name in this regard? That would be one way to clear this up. The consequences would be huge should she take and pass this test because it would call into question the entire police report. Is this not the next logical step this should take?

[No Elephants]

101. I do not recall Whalen saying one of the men might be Hispanic. I'd have to hear the tape again.

Clear her name? Are you serious? Clear it from what?

She made a very careful, accurate 911 call to the police at the request of a concerned neighbor.

[DallasNE]

113. The Whole Purpose Of The Attorney's Statement

Is to clear her name. The lie detector test would be the next logical step in the sequence.

[No Elephants]

244. Only because Crowley lied, which led people to accuse Whalen of racism. Once the

911 tape shows Whalen did not make a racist call, the assumption caused by Crowley's lie has been conclusively overcome. There is nothing left to clear.

No, the lie detector for Whalen is not the next logical step. To the contrary, your suggestion is downright bizarre.

Everything that woman said in thee 911 call was proven totally accurate--two men, using their shoulders on the door, suitcases, maybe they lived there. Her later statement--that she never identified the suspects as black--has also been proven true, by both the 911 tape and Figueroa's police report.

Thanks to Crowley's lies, Whalen has been hassled for days, when she did nothing whatever but be a good (and totally accurate) Samaritan, never having been trained to report suspected crimes accurately. If you want to teach people never to report a suspected crime in progress because the cop who arrives on the scene might misbehave, this is a textbook case. The idea that she should be put through any more hassle because of Crowley is, as I said, simply bizarre.

Nothing else is to be learned from her. And, she committed no crime. She is not even suspected of having done anything wrong. I anything, she is to be commended and Crowley should apologize to her.

Crowley, on the other hand, has been caught in several, ahem, inaccuracies and a number of, ahem, irregularities. an If anyone should take a lie detector test, it's Crowley.

[George II]

147. She did say that, but it came after being asked a second time and suggested...

....by the 911 operator, "white, black, hispanic?"

[No Elephants]

257. Yes, I listened again. But, she added that she could not really tell.

[No Passaran]

103. why won't the cop take a lie detector test? n/t

[sunnybrook]

129. he is biologically unable to

Just like he is hard wired to never say he is sorry or ever admit a mistake....

who does that remind me of, like some vague, bad nightmare I had for eight years, hmmmmm....

[mr_liberal]

130. Theres a more important question for people here

Not you because you seem reasonable.

But why would Crowley lie in his report and say "two black men" and try to make it seem like a racial incident from the start before he even entered the house? He'd be making himself look bad.

I think Whalen was there and never denied that. I think the CNN report is mixed up or Wendy Murphy mispoke.

I think she meant that Whalen didn't have THAT conversation with Crowley (about "two black men"), not that she didn't have A conversation at all with Crowley at the scene.

[Robb]

143. The report was filed less than an hour after the incident

...Expect Crowley to claim he was rushed. :eyes:

I think he just figured he wouldn't get called on it, and it sounded close enough, and made him look better. To other white people.

[BumRushDaShow]

144. There are psychologists and psychiatrists

who specialize in cases like his. I remember a report years ago (maybe 60 minutes or something on CBS) where a poor white W. VA woman ranted and raved from her broken down porch about "blacks and welfare" while she was receiving a welfare check herself. The denial is so deep that it forms a scotoma (blind spot) in their psyche.

He ignored the training that he purportedly gives while in a panic and made an illegal arrest... and then tried to cover himself by retrofitting these lies into his report, since it was obvious that Gates was there and was "black" and thus he assumed the other person supposedly there was also "black". He probably never heard what was said in the 911 tape (only heard what the dispatcher told him), let alone didn't expect a witness to make such a public issue. Plus he had his posse covering him.

His mistake was to publicly do a Jim the Cop/Joe the Plumber routine and get up there and demand "apologies" from the POTUS. Some in his own department, as well as the prosecutors, and the city administration seemed to think that this wasn't kosher and shouldn't be pursued (thus the dropping of charges and their public statements indicating the arrest was "regrettable", and other conciliatory language), with the hope it would just go away. Even today, the department basically wants a "lessons learned" to come about. But Jim the Cop wanted his 15 minutes of fame playing balls with the POTUS.

So will the men who stood with him acknowledge the egg on their faces as well? One for all and all for one?

[OhioBlue]

174. I think you are exactly right!!!

I agree 100% with your take on this - I think he definitely acted with racial bias and then tried to take on the POTUS as Jim the Joe-Plumber Cop. He will stay a folk legend to the hard core right-wing just as the failed non-plumber and the quitter Gov.

[George II]

149. He may have said "two black men" because he didn't hear the 911 call..plus...

..he said she told him that on the scene but she said he never spoke to her.

[thucythucy]

310. Why would Crowley lie...

"Why would Crowley lie in his report and say 'two black men' and try to make it seem like a racial incident from the start..."

This is purely speculation, but since you're asking for speculation I thought I'd oblige.

One reason for Crowley to "embellish" his report would be to justify approaching Professor Gates in a hostile manner from the get-go. As in: "I was told two black men were breaking into this house, when I got to the house here was this black man inside..." If there was no indication of race going in, then the officer's seemingly exaggerated suspicion of Professor Gates itself becomes suspect. In any case, "He fit the description" has often been used as justification for police misconduct.

One general comment here, looking at the remarks on this and other threads. There seems to me a huge divide in how this incident has been perceived between people who have never been on the receiving end of police abuse, and those who have. Having been in several situations where police have, shall we say, flexed their authority, and knowing of many more such incidents among my friends, I can absolutely identify with Professor Gates. One aspect that hasn't been remarked on much is that while Officer Crowley was confronting Professor Gates the street evidently began to fill with police cars. If it were me, looking out my window or from my porch at this obvious over-reaction, I'd be outraged as well. (Actually, I'd be more frightened than anything. The outrage would come later). If you've never had the experience of being surrounded by armed men in uniforms who do not have your best interests at heart--who have literal power of life and death over you--well, there's probably no way you can understand that feeling, not without a terrific amount of empathy. And we all know how terrible "empathy" is--especially when applied to our judicial or legal system. (That last was meant to be sarcasm, lest anyone misunderstand).

[No Elephants]

327. Why would Crowley say Whalen told him the suspects were black? Because, from

the jump through the end of the incident Crowley treated Gates like a perp, even though there was no reason to do so. "Keep sending more cars,"a LOL.

Gates is 58, well dressed, well spoken, and disabled. Less than no reason to assume he did not belong in that million dollar Harvard owned dwelling, especially after Crowley saw ID.

No reason to lie, LOL? He had every reason to try to justify his treatment of Gates. Having Gates fit the description of the perp would certainly help Crowley, not hurt him.

And your screen name is not fooling anyone, anymore than Crowley's lying report.

[MasonJar]

105. One lesson learned is do not be a good Samaritan without cause.

The neighbor could have made her own call. Crowley lied on the report; that is a significant fact in this incident. He was not playing by the rules; it is a small wonder the prof was so upset. There is no telling what Crowley said at the house if he went so far as to lie on an official report.

[DallasNE]

106. A Whiff Of Mark Furman

When this story first broke I mentioned elsewhere that Sgt. Crowley reminded me of another Mark Furman. The more this unravels the stronger the odor.

http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums/thread/3032247.aspx

Boy, did I catch it for making this suggestion.

[George II]

138. I thought the same thing. And where is Mark Furman now?

He left the LAPD and moved to Idaho. Perhaps to escape capital felony charges for committing perjury in a capital trial.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

190. He's built a very successful second career

as a true crime author and researcher.

In fact, in league with Dominic Dunne, Fuhrman was instrumental in getting the Martha Moxley case reopened, resulting in an indictment, a trial, and a conviction.

He's done other things, too, but the Moxley case just comes to my mind first.

He's doing very well..............................

[Kablooie]

111. But... he just made a mistake!

But not a mistake that should have been made.

Until this kind of 'mistake' is eliminated the race issues will not go away.

(I'm white and I feel that until race discrimination issues are actually eradicated,
black people have a right to continue to point out where it occurs, no matter how insignificant.
Until there is truly societal equality, African Americans have a right to cry foul.)

[George II]

132. Does anyone know if the Crowley police report is available anywhere?

[Robb]

136. This one?

Note: link expires in a week, I just downloaded the file earlier:

http://senduit.com/1be7ab

:hi:

[George II]

139. Great - thanks very much. Funny that they redacted the "17" from Gates' address.....

....like no one knows what it is already.

[BumRushDaShow]

146. Yes, his address is blatantly repeated all over the released 911 tape

AND as I understand late last week when he and his lawyer were on the radio, that the police released his home phone and cell phone numbers, which he had to then change.

Imagine that.

[No Elephants]

260. Yet, they claim they delayed release of the 911 tape to protect Whalen's privacy based on

her VOICE. (By the time they released the tape, everyone seemed to know her name and address, but her name was edited from the tape the very first time I heard it.

More assholery.

[Spazito]

154. Here is another link that has both Officer reports...

It makes for interesting reading given all we now know:

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

[George II]

134. Here's a link to an AP column that breaks down the incident and subsequent police report....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jHud4VBSlwHX-0MPU8m15Yh9lE8gD99MH3381

Very revealing, particularly this:

"According to Crowley's police report, he arrived to find Whalen standing on the sidewalk in front of the home. She told Crowley that "she observed what appeared to be two black men with backpacks on the porch"

Backpacks in his report, suitcases in the 911 tape BEFORE Crowley showed up!!!

By the time Crowley showed up, one man was inside, the other had driven off.

Two black men in his report, Hispanic and unidentified in the 911 tape BEFORE Crowley showed up!!!

There are other blatant inconsistencies in the AP analysis. Well worth reading.

Crowley is a filthy liar and, based on his false report, could (and should) face criminal charges. It's not "he said - he said", it's "he said - tape said". The tape is the damning evidence.

[Igel]

345. There are inconsistencies.

It's what makes sifting evidence so interesting and frustrating.

Take the non-conversation, which today was described in the media, by Whalen's attorney, as her simply identifying herself, standing on the sidewalk, as the caller when Crowley et al. arrived. Was that a conversation? Dunno. Rather depends on the speaker, I guess. But while the attorney originally said that Crowley's having seen her outside on the sidewalk is corroborated. On the other hand, did Crowley's report say they had a conversation, or that Whalen simply told him some things?

Attorney's tend to be very precise. Take the denial of a conversation, which admits of her client having spoken to Crowley, for example. Yesterday Whalen's attorney indicated that Whalen didn't describe the men as "black", and used the word "black" twice. (1) Did Whalen use some other term, more or less equivalent? (People don't remember words, they remember content and paralinguistic information that allows them to reconstruct, often correctly, the exact words used.) (2) Did she relay--pass along, but not originate--such a description? I know that if my wife relates the description of a person second-hand I'd probably not say that *she* described the person.

Presumably the phoneless woman who browbeat Whalen into calling the police was around. At least I think if I did something like that I'd be amongst the looky-lous. Did Crowley or another officer talk to her?

"Backpacks" is also an interesting term. Were they still in evidence when Crowley arrived? Did he mis-identify them? If they weren't in evidence or were clearly suitcases, how did Crowley come to that identification?

Then there's the driver, apparently, from what little I've read, long gone before the police arrived. How did Crowley come to any judgment about his skin melanin content? As far as I remember, Crowley didn't hear his description from the dispatcher, and heard "Hispanic" about one of the men. Logic would say that the other man had to be the Hispanic one, right? Gates' pictures don't seem to show a Hispanic (although, to be honest, Hispanics are also black and then you're left with accent or surname as the only clues). However, this assumes that all the information Crowley had came from the dispatcher and from being on the scene. There's no need for the assumption to be valid, and, as a humble servant of the truth, I'd want my assumption checked. Presumably, somebody interested in getting to the bottom of what actually did happen, as opposed to being an advocate for or against a person or claim, could do this.

There are more unanswered questions, but my child needs attention.

[George II]

358. A couple of comments...

- By the time Crowley arrived (from his report) Gates was already inside the house, so it would be logical that the luggage was already inside the house too. Since Whalen had already called them suitcases, where did the idea come from that they were backpacks?

- Whalen was reluctant to say what the men looked like, she first said she didn't know. When pressed ("black, hispanic, white" (or maybe some other order, I didn't relisten to the tape) ) she said one may have looked hispanic. But even then she wasn't definitive.

- Since the driver was already long gone, and one was presumably hispanic (if Crowley did learn this from the dispatcher), just where did the idea that there were two black men come from? The only description that Whalen gave (again, reluctantly) was that one may have been hispanic.

Yes, still lots of questions, but some of the inconsistencies seem very obvious and Whalen's recollection of the incident has been confirmed by the 911 tape and police communication. Much of what Crowley reported has been proved to be false (incorrect, to be nice)

[Ken Burch]

135. So, does this mean the "Gates was the racist" crowd will admit they were wrong?

(...cue the crickets...)

[frylock]

157. are you kidding?!

they continue to dig themselves in deeper by defending this shit simply because they're incapable of admitting that they may have been wrong.

[Moochy]

175. Oh that crowd.

not this one...



I get those two crowds mixed up occasionally.

[sunnybrook]

304. That made me laugh so hard I almost woke the neighbors!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I think I see some "birthers" in there too.

[EFerrari]

207. They went further than that as in "Gates is a racist and so are you". n/t

[Kind of Blue]

155. I just want to talk about all the screaming Gates

allegedly let loose. I just listened to an NPR report of Crowley and heard Gates in the background. For sure it was snippets of the tape, but Gates was clearly not screaming, just talking back and he sounded irate but no screaming or yelling. This is at the point when Crowley describes the elderly man and asks for additional help :rofl: If I don't laugh I'd cry.

[No Elephants]

261. According to Gates, he could not have yelled if he tried. I think he said "bronchitis" was the

reason, but it some infection. However, raising your voice in your own home is not a crime, and that was all that even Crowley ever accused Gates of. No crime of any kind, but an arrest. And the apologists here saw no problem whatever. Some still don't, focusing instead on details, rather than the big picture.

It's either "I just want to teach the %$#$% a lesson for not being subservient to a cop," or "I just want to teach the black %$#$% a lesson for not being subservient to a cop."

Either way, Crowley was wrong.

[creeksneakers2]

162. Is the tape of the police radio traffic edited?

Because if it's in real time, it contradicts the police report.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/video/20191253/index.html

Gates arrives at the residence at 1:00 into the tape. He spoke with the dispatcher until 1:12 trying to determine where the complaint caller was. 21 seconds later,(1:33) Crowley transmitted that he was speaking to a probable resident who was uncooperative. Crowley asked for backup. "Keep the cars coming." How uncooperative can somebody be in 21 seconds when the police are at the door and the responder doesn't know why? I'd want to know what was going on. Obviously, Crowley took an attitude right away calling for more cops, and in the presence of Gates. By 41 seconds later (2:14) Crowley had ID from Gates and called in Gates' name. That's all the time it took for Gates to supply his ID, 1 minute and 14 seconds after Crowley arrived and hadn't even knocked on the door yet.

According to Crowley, during the 21 seconds between Crowley's last radio discussion about the filer of the complaint and the time Crowley radioed in that he was probably talking to the resident,Crowley is alerted by the complain caller and given the details of the complaint. Crowley looks inside the residence and sees a black male. Crowley asks the black male to step out on the porch. The black male refuses and demands to know why. Crowley gives his name and states he's there to investigate a burglary report. Gates gets angry and asks "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" Crowley asks if anyone else in the house. The agitated black male tells Crowley its none of his business and calls Crowley a racist. Crowley reassures Gates. Crowley says all this happened in 21 seconds, and it was enough for him to call Gates uncooperative and request backup.

Its seems more likely that it went like this: Gates comes to the door. Crowley asks him to step out, Gates says he lives there and refuses to step out and instead asks the cop for his name and business. This would take about 21 seconds. That's probably all that happened before Crowley, in front of Gates, called in Gates as uncooperative and asked for backup. If a cop did that to me, came to my door and called me uncooperative and asked for backup 21 seconds later, I'd be angry too. If I was black I'd certainly feel I was being treated as a dangerous felon just because I was black. I'd yell racist too. White people aren't treated like they are dangerous felons just for asking a few seconds worth of very legitimate questions. I think it was the radio transmission from Crowley that set Gates off.

41 seconds later, Crowley had ID from Gates and Crowley radioed in the name. Here's what Crowley says happened in those 41 seconds: Crowley makes the radio call while Gates dials a telephone. Crowley asks for the Harvard Police on the radio. Gates asks for the "chief" on the phone. Gates demands to know the chief's name. Gates reports that he his being harassed by a racist cop. Gates then tells Crowley that Crowley doesn't know who he's messing with and hadn't heard the last of it. Crowley then asks Gates for ID. Gates refuses and demands ID from Crowley. Gates then submits and provides ID. All this, according to Crowley, took place in 41 seconds.

[George II]

165. I don't think it's edited. If it was, it certainly wouldn't be contradicting his report.

[Spazito]

179. Good post! Well done! I noticed the VERY short timeframe as well...

and found it interesting, to say the least.

[No Elephants]

262. Please don't let facts influence anything. That's just so.....liberal.

[tooeyeten]

167. every day in America

Police lie in their reports.

[Fire1]

169. Ok. He falsified a police report. Isn't that illegal? What

happens to him? My way of thinking, probably nothing.

[grahamhgreen]

186. He was also told that the people might live there and just had some trouble opening the door!

So he already knew this was a possibility before he even got there.

You can't arrest people just because you don't like the way they talk to you.

All he needed to do was check ID and leave.

How hard is that?

[No Passaran]

195. chickens are coming home to roost

[Dazz4u]

217. I was wondering:

Did anyone consider after Gates surrendered his identification
why Crowley contacted the Harvard Police Department? He stated
he did, was not the identification enough? was he calling for
verification purposes? as if he did not believe the
identification was legitimate, is it not reasonable to think
that Gates would be at the very least extremely insulted?
Would any reasonable person not consider this at least a
provocation?

[EFerrari]

233. Crowley likely called to verify with the University cops that

Gates belonged in this university house. And it sounds like he did it pretty much in Gates' face as provocatively as possible. What an ass.

[No Elephants]

270. Gates showed photo ID with his address. Calling the Harvard cops was indeed provocative.

It was clear there was no b and e. It was also clear Gates had a Harvard photo ID, because Gates had shown him both.

If Crowley wanted to take it to the next step and make sure Gates was not squatting with fake ID's-pretty far fetched--Crowley could have checked with Harvard police after leaving Gates to his unpacking.

[defendandprotect]

302. Gates had also given Crowley his license/photo ID with his Harvard ID . . .

[goodhue]

218. Gates 911 call: Witness not sure she sees crime

Source: Associated Press

Gates 911 call: Witness not sure she sees crime

By RUSSELL CONTRERAS (AP) – 1 hour ago

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — The 911 caller who reported two men possibly breaking into the home of black Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. did not describe their race, acknowledged they might just be having a hard time with the door and said she saw two suitcases on the porch.

Cambridge police on Monday released the 911 recording and radio transmissions from the scene in an effort to show they had nothing to hide, but the tapes raised new questions about how and why the situation escalated.

Gates' July 16 arrest on a disorderly conduct charge sparked a national debate about whether the professor was a victim of racial profiling. Gates, returning from a trip to China, and his driver had forced their way through the front door because it was jammed, and the charge was later dropped.

In her 911 call, Lucia Whalen, who works at the Harvard alumni magazine, repeatedly tells the operator she is not sure what is happening.

Speaking calmly, she tells the operator that she was stopped by an elderly woman who told her she noticed two men trying to get into a house. Whalen initially says she saw two men pushing on the door, but later says one of the men entered the home and she didn't get a good look at him. She says she noticed two suitcases.

"I don't know if they live there and they just had a hard time with their key. But I did notice they used their shoulder to try to barge in and they got in. I don't know if they had a key or not, 'cause I couldn't see from my angle," Whalen says.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jqwi0TSVtxC458-6AKpUuaTpH5FgD99N2MB00

[Iowa]

219. Well this pretty much seals it...

Plus, I saw in another thread that the cop lied about speaking with the woman on the scene. I think this is pretty standard based on countless news reports that we see every single day: cops, as a profession, simply cannot be trusted. Their profession is completely corrupted. They tolerate (even encourage) liars, racists, sadists, and sociopaths.

If I'm on a jury, and the verdict comes down to the word of a cop, I will assume the cop is lying. No person on any jury I serve on will be convicted based on the word of a cop. For years I have managed to get out of jury duty. Those days are over.

[clixtox]

236. I served in April '09 on a felony hit & run++, the jury deadlocked...

11 to 1 for conviction based on amazingly conveniently found physical evidence, police testimony given expert witness gravitas, and an inept public defender who had just passed the bar a few months before.

The defendant's "goose was cooked", in my opinion, when the jurors saw that he required an interpreter.

We are a nation of sheeple who have been conditioned to be just like the "Good Germans" before WW2.

I am not sure though, that we deserve the police state that has been created around and over us. Maybe we do.

The problem with our police state is that there are too many police!

Perhaps the impending budget cuts will make our subjugation more palatable.

[BumRushDaShow]

220. From the article at the very bottom

David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, said he did not think the latest revelations related to the 911 call would change many opinions on the case.

"My guess is that that adds nothing to the conviction of black Americans that the cops like to lie a lot. It's just another example of something they already thoroughly believe, and that if it affects the views of those who generally trust the police, it would affect it in a very small way at most."

So it is acceptable practice to allow falsified reports to stand? And then have the media purposely not make the connection that the report was false, and suddenly bury the story under some Michael Vick or Michael Jackson or god forbid Caribou Barbie nonsense? :shrug:

Okay then. :rofl:

[No Elephants]

333. What a racist statement from David Kennedy. It's not only blacks who believe

cops lie a lot. This thread makes that evident. So does a lot of commentary on this case and on the subject generally.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

221. I don't get the problem with the witness' equivocation and how it relates to Crowley's handling....

.... of the situation (pre bullshit disorderly conduct arrest).

The caller wasn't sure but she was sure enough to call the police, describe two men "barging" in the door, and describe possible damage to the screen door. The dispatcher was pretty inquisitive but he ultimately had no choice but to radio for a "possible b/e."

Cops I know get pretty worked up over possible b/e when they are told the subject is still inside.

It's not as if the cops fabricated the call.

[Alcibiades]

223. She described that they had luggage

They played the tape on MSNBC. It's pretty obvious that the caller is qualifying the b/e report. Whether the dispatcher relayed that info to Crowley, we don't know.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

226. He did.

The dispatcher sent out a call for a possible b/e in progress by "two "SPs" (suspects?) barged their way in the home they have suitcases" ... "both SPs are still in the house unknown on the race one may be hispanic male not sure". The 911 operator spent a little time qualifying the caller but ultimately he had no choice but to dispatch the units. "Forcing the door" and "possible screen damage" set things in motion, IMO.

It almost seems to me as if "they have suitcases" was interpreted/conveyed by the dispatcher (not the 911 operator) as evidence of an actual burglary. I could be wrong. But remember, this truly IS a game of operator where the 911 operator tries to qualify the call, sends it to dispatch with the message two guys are forcing a door and they have suitcases ad it goes out to the radio car with no qualifiers. All Crowley knows is he's got a b/e with the suspects STILL in the house - cops I know salivate over those calls when they actually have a chance to catch someone in the house. 99% of the time they are only taking a report. My best friend's little brother received a major award for going in a window because he knew the "perp" was still in the house - it turns out he stopped a rape in progress. He tells me he will probably never make another case like that in his career.

At the very least, the caller's hesitation wasn't conveyed - as I would think it shouldn't be. You either are investigating the crime or not. I doubt dispatchers are instructed to give their gut feelings.

Anyway, the whole thing turned to shit once Gates and Crowley met. The D/C arrest was a complete fabrication for reasons of contempt of cop sprinkled with a heavy dose of racism. Being a victim of that particular arrest, it's one of my major pet peeves with cops. They use that arrest as a "fuck you" when you question their "authoratah".

[Alcibiades]

352. Thanks for the info

You're right, it makes Crowley look bad. Personally, I've always been deferential with the police, but that's been because I don't want my traffic ticket to turn into a contempt of cop arrest such as this one. Someone who did absolutely nothing wrong, like Dr. Gates, might not be so reticent.

You're right about the authority, though it's clear to me that there are two sorts of authority here--the authority of the cop and that of a Harvard professor. 99.9% of the time, these men are able to get deferential treatment: the difference is that a cop has the power to arrest you, while a prof cannot even compel his students to actually attend class.

[No Elephants]

263. Yep. She even suggests they may be residents and also that they may have had a key.

[No Elephants]

258. For me, the total accuracy of Whalen's report contrasts sharply with all the errors

in Crowley's. And, the fact that she did NOT identify the suspects as black tells me Crowley probably lied about a very key fact--and a race-based one at that. Without her description of the perps as black, there is absolutely NO justification for Crowley's assuming that a well-dressed, well-spoken, 58 year old disabled African American who opened the door for him was one of the perps. None, except a race-based assumption. And, he acted like a jerk from the jump, so we have to assume he took Gates for a perp.

O course, I thought he had no justification for that assumption, even when I thought the witness had identified the suspects to the dispatcher as black. However, the fact that she did not actually do so, but is described by Crowley as having done so, tells me a lot about Crowley.

[lindisfarne]

222. NY Times has audio of call - link here. I wasn't too impressed with the dispatcher.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/28gates.html?hp

Not to defend Crowley too much, but if you've ever studied "source memory", you know humans can easily confuse the source of some information - someone else may have told him something that led him to claim Whalen said it.

Memory can be particularly faulty - it's best to sit and write notes as soon as possible after anything that might be important down the road to recall accurately. I did this once after witnessing a car accident and when the insurance agent for the lady causing the accident heard I had taken notes immediately after the accident, he was a bit dumbfounded - it really weakened their argument that the other driver had caused the accident.

[HisTomness]

224. I think that's probably part of it

It seems, based on the police report, that the original info regarding Ms Whalen came from Officer Figueroa and was probably related to Officer Crowley after the fact.

However, I can't shake the suspicion that it's a little more than that. I'm thinking that when he was writing up the report, he wanted to cast himself in the light of appropriate police behavior given that he had just arrested a man at his own house and needed to justify that. I feel like he threw in the part about talking to Ms Whalen because he knew (or thought he knew based on what he remembered Officer Figueroa saying) what she would have said in such an exchange, and he probably figured it would help to dress up the situation since without that part you're left to wonder that much more how he found himself inside the Gates household in the first place.

Again - pure speculation, I readily admit. Still, it's not hard to imagine this guy letting himself in without permission (he's investigating a B/E) and Professor Gates being understandably upset by that. I'm just thinking Crowley might have thought that saying he spoke with Ms Whalen first would make it seem more like he was acting on behalf of someone else and was therefore more justified in entering the residence.

[lindisfarne]

225. Welcome. Conscious & unconscious motives could have definitely influenced Crowley while writing the

report and a few days ago I made the comment he had written it in a way which protects him, first and foremost. So yes, I agree it's more than a memory issue and in part, motivated to protect himself.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

227. Bingo

If you ever watch any of those cops shows, after a major incident you can see them "divvy up" who is going to say what in which officer's report. Part lying, part memory and 100% covering their ass. And once they get to court, that report is gospel and they'll never admit memory problems or fudging.

[MADem]

232. How can you remember having a conversation with a witness who says she never spoke to you?

That's the piece that does not pass the smell test.

He even puts her NAME (which he probably got from the other officer, or the dispatcher) in his report. And he has her describing two black guys with backpacks--something she vociferously denies, and NEVER SAID on the 911 call.

You'd think if she saw two black guys with backpacks, she would have said that on the call, yes?

Something stinks here--and it's Crowley's report that is reeking.

[No Elephants]

266. Good evening, sir. I'm sorry to disturb you, but we've received a report of a possible

breaking and entering at this address by two men.

I am sure you understand that, under the circumstances, I must ask some questions, even though it seems unnecessary at this point. So, I ask your cooperation.

Do you live here? Yes? Do you have any ID that reflects that this is your residence? Driver's license with photo and address and Harvard U photo ID. Couldn't ask for better than that! Thank you. Now, my only concern is making sure your're safe here.

Do you think anyone might be here without your knowledge? Would you like us to look around to make sure that you are safe?

In that case, good day.




If the cop had acted like a professional cop instead of a professional asshole, Gates would never have so much as knit his brow. To the contrary, Gates probably would have expressed gratitude for the concern of his neighbor and the concern of the police.

From Gates's responses, you can tell, Crowley did not see fit to explain what he was doing or give Gates any relevant information. Instead, he treated Gates like a criminal, both before AND after he saw his ID's. All of which Crowley should have avoided, his being such an expert about racial profiling and all.

Why am I thinking the bulk of those courses he teaches deal with how to write a police report that covers your racial profiling ass?

[grahamhgreen]

278. "Up against the wall or I'll tase you and your granny, you grey-haired gangster! I got a badge!"nt

[MADem]

231. If Crowley had radioed in new info as he learned it (instead of just

calling Gates 'uncooperative' and requesting that the cars be kept coming) that probably would have helped his recall.

I think he made shit up and thought he could get away with it, AFTER he lost his temper and cuffed the Professor. I don't think the witness, who he names in his report, is lying. She said she never talked to Crowley. He has her describing two black men with backpacks. That's a BIG gap between the two.

[Spazito]

293. Sgt. Crowley filed his official police report 36 MINUTES after arriving...

on scene. From the police report, Sgt. Crowley was still in his cruiser at 12:44:00 pm when he heard the 'broadcast' and responded. His report was filed at 13:21:34. Again, that means the WHOLE incident from beginning to end was LESS than THIRTY-SIX MINUTES.

To suggest Sgt. Crowley's report contained the misrepresentations it did because he became confused within 36 MINUTES is ludicrous, imo.

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

[No Elephants]

264. Let's remember: The Cambridge PD AND the union vindicated Crowley, as did Figueroa.

Three possibilities.

1. They did not investigate before they vindicated him;

2. They investigated, but did not see the discrepancies;

3. They saw the discrepancies, but did not realize their significance.


4. They knew Crowley misbehaved and lied, and they backed him anyway.


I am not seeing any scenario that says they were not all lousy cops, at least the ones we saw standing so firmly behind the vindication for the cameras.


Obama must be feeling pretty good right now--except maybe for the bits where he was heaping all that praise on Crowley and the Cambridge PD. He never said anything wrong and he hever should have backpedalled, or even seemed to backpedal.

Amazing to me that they are removing possible wrongdoing in this incident from the purview of the panel. Frickin amazing.

[Name removed]

274. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JTFrog]

275. At least you picked an appropriate user name.

It's not like Gates called 911 and said send over a white cop so I can go national on his ass now is it?

The COP however, is a liar and a racist pig who made up a police report to cover his ass and we all know it's SOP for cops to cover each others asses.

[twitomy]

280. Sorry, disagree

Gates seems to me to be a complete ASSHOLE.

If the cops approached me thinking I might be breaking in, I would show positive ID and THANK THEM
for looking out for my property. And that would have been the end of it. But no, this Gates guy who
appears to see race in everything felt he had to lash out at whitey. I think Gates is the racist in
this particular case.

[sabrina 1]

283. 'Gates is the racist' ~ lol

Do you know anything about Gates, btw?

[winter999]

288. I know he goes off on "white" cops.

Ask yourself what would be the outcome if the police acted Exactly the same but where all "black"?

[twitomy]

291. We all know the outcome would be different....

And anyone who says "do you know who I am!" is not only an asshole but an arrogant prick who needs
to be taken down a peg or two...God does that elitist phrase piss me off!

[sunnybrook]

306. and how do you know he said that?

OH, it was in the police report. Which Gates has said is full of the officer's imagination. But he HAS TO BE lying and the cop HAS to be telling the truth, so I am sure Gates said "Do you know who I am?"

There. This is simple and resolved. I think we can move on now.

[No Elephants]

335. We don't all know that and Gates never said that. Please also see

Reply 326.

[EFerrari]

343. Then you are the one with a chip on his shoulder. lol

[sabrina 1]

292. 'He goes off on white cops'

I am sure you wouldn't make a statement like that without proof. What 'white cops' has he 'gone off on' other than Crowley?

And you didn't answer my question. Actually you did, you called someone a 'racist' without knowing anything about them.

[winter999]

294. And What do you Know about Crowley?

I'm saying it takes two to tango. Read the statements, read the bios. What do You know about Hitler other than what you've gleaned from History? Did you know the man before passing judgment? We know these two people by their actions and words.

Do you know who I am? (to quote someone) Guess you do as you've already passed judgment on me.

[sabrina 1]

296. I have not passed judgement on you, just on what you wrote.

You are correct, we do not know any of these people personally. Which is why I have NEVER referred to Officer Crowley as a 'racist'. I have pointed out discrepencies in his statements, and disagreed with the way he handled this situation, but I have not used the word 'racist' in reference to him.

You, on the other hand, have called Gates a racist based on this one incident it seems.

It's absolutely possible that both these men are not particularly likeable human beings, I really do not know nor do I care since they are not related to me in any way.

What is clear is that a minor incident has become a major issue when, even if I were to agree that Gates' anger was overboard, it could and should have been easy enough to de-escalate the situation rather than provoke it. A simple 'I apologize for the inconvenience, Prof. Gates, I completely sympathize with your reasons for being upset, but you understand I did receive a call reporting a possible burglary at your home which it is my duty to investigate. Thankfully it appears to have been a mistake and I appreciate your cooperation in helping me to establish that.'

If Gates continued to rail about being racially profiled or to be generally upset, it was the duty of the officer to simply listen, not to provoke him by calling in claiming he was 'uncooperative' in his own home, when in fact, he had shown ID, however reluctantly. If the day comes when citizens are too frightened to speak up when a cop is acting like an arrogant bastard, which many of them do, that will be a sad day for this country.

And, yes, I know cops have a tough job, but so do many others. Many good cops handle situations like this all the time and we never hear of them. This was not handled properly but it seems all parties are now willing to talk about it and hopefully everyone will learn something from it.

[sunnybrook]

307. This post made too much sense

I think you may have scared him away with you over reliance on "logic." You must be an elitist! :sarcasm:

[No Elephants]

336. We know about Crowley that he arrested a man who had committed no crime, that he trespassed on

Crowley's property, that he demanded Gates step outside, only so he could arrest him, that he treated an innocent man like a criminal, that he failed to read Gates his Mirandas, that he made a false arrest, that he falsified a police report---and the report STILL did not state a crime by Gates. But, you're right, that's only one incident. We don't know what other crap he's pulled on less high profile people.

[No Elephants]

326. Actually, you don't know that at all. You simply believe what plays into your own biases and

disregard all evidence to the contrary.

And, if Professor Gates's statement in another context (before this happened) is any indication, Gate's reaction would have been exactly the same if all the cops had all black. Here is that statement.

Gates has argued that a separatist, Afrocentric education perpetuates racist stereotypes and maintains that it is "ridiculous" to think that only blacks should be scholars of African and African-American literature. He argues, "It can't be real as a subject if you have to look like the subject to be an expert in the subject,"<5> adding, "It's as ridiculous as if someone said I couldn't appreciate Shakespeare because I'm not Anglo-Saxon. I think it's vulgar and racist whether it comes out of a black mouth or a white mouth."<8>


I agree with Professor Gates. Racism is racism, regardless of its source. And black people are capable of racism against other blacks, having grown up in the same racist society as we all have. As an expert on African Americans Professor Gates knows that better than I do. And it's not very bright or fair of you to imply otherwise.

[George II]

289. So when does being arrested in one's OWN home, after identifying oneself...

...as the homeowner (listen to the tape, even Crowley said that he knew the person he was talking to was the resident) make one a "complete asshole"???

He DID show ID and Crowley acknowledged that in his communication with the dispatcher. THEN he said "keep the cars coming"!

The only chip on a shoulder I see from all the irrefutable evidence is squarely on Crowley's shoulder.

[Dazz4u]

311. Is it not reasonable.......

to assume that being in your own home and after producing verifiable identification, that to have a Police officer call your job's security to verify that the documentation you are producing is legitimate that you would not be insulted, are you saying you would not be offended???!!! this man is a respected and noted scholar and entitled to at least the benefit of the doubt, having witnessed the difference between attitudes of citizens of color and "white" (I hate that term) citizens toward the police during traffic stops, I think Joe CEO would have hit the roof!!!if any police officer black or white would have subjected Joe CEO to those indignities, and as previously posted what type of professionalism was the "keep the cars coming" remark alluding to? This is not an indictment on Crowley just a call for decency and truth, Can you really imagine a Harvard Scholar saying "I'll talk to yo momma", and why ask him to step outside? because it is impossible to justify arresting a man in his own home if no crime has been committed, I can't believe some of the justifications I've read here. The truth needs no defense, no embellishment, and no modifications, it is the truth. So far the facts are a black professional was arrested at his home for being upset and being harassed in his home by a police officer stating that the he arrested the man at his home for being "uncooperative and bellicose" uncooperative to what? an investigation to establish that he was rightfully in his own home? Respect is a two way street it is earned not given.

[No Elephants]

317. Um, he did show ID. Two forms of it. Apparently, that was not enough for Officer Asshole.

Please see Reply 266.

BTW, why is it any more significant to you that a "BLACK" cop stands with Crowley that it is that many white cops stood with him? What does skin color have to do with it? Are you trying to be racist both ways? Gates's words have no value because he is against Crowley, but another black man's words in favor of Crowley have greater weight than a white man's? Or will you simply post anything, as long as it seems (in your mind) to vindicate this lying. thuggish cop?

[No Elephants]

321. I've had the same thought in the past about this screen name. I just never posted it.

:toast:

[EFerrari]

284. They must be feeling great now that it's known he lied his @ss off. n/t

[No Passaran]

outing yourself so early?

so what is it? even if a cop does something wrong, every other cop should back him?

[No Elephants]

322. IMO, this poster (or screen name, anyway) outed himself or herself long before this thread.

[defendandprotect]

303. Crowley seems to me a guy

with a chip on his shoulder -- plus a badge and a gun -- who was

looking for any excuse to arrest Gates, a "black" man . . .

Whalen makes clear that Crowley is lying --

The 9/11 tape makes clear that Crowley lied about "two black men" --

AFTER Crowley has Gates' License/Photo AND his Harvard ID . . . he calls

the Harvard police to come-!

Crowley made every attempt to escalate this incident into an arrest to

embarrass Gates.

What Crowley and the Cambridge PD have made clear is that they will still

support racist police work. Really sad!

[No Elephants]

316. The fact that the black officer at the scene "stood with"

Crowley proves nothing, other than cops usually stick together, no matter what, and have for a long time. Is this a surprise? I mean, there are hundreds of movies about it, some of which are based on true life events.

As far as Gates having a chip on his shoulder, Gates did not just drop out of the sky a couple of weeks ago. He has taught thousands of students, made many TV shows and lectured around the world. He is a well known commodity, a mild mannered man who deals with thousands of people of all kind without any problem of any kind. Contradistinctively, we know Crowley lies. The police reports, including his own, and the tapes prove it.

Sorry, you are pulling stuff out of your ear. I have noted your posts in the past and that seems to be a habit of yours.

[RaleighNCDUer]

276. And this is the REAL problem with profiling -

it's not just using certain markers of dress or demeanor to judge if someone is suspicious - it encourages the profiler to see what he expects to see, or hear what he expects to hear, or remember what he expected to see or hear rather than what was actually there.

[shagsak]

286. What was it that Obama said the other night...

Oh yes, the officers behaved stupidly.

[JayMusgrove]

314. Confirmed by the 911 transcript, and recording, and by the

stupid police report.