Outcry over disowned US rape girl

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

Offers for help are pouring in for an eight-year-old Liberian girl disowned by her own family in Phoenix, Arizona, after being raped by four boys.

The girl is under the care of the Arizona Child Protective Service (CPS) because her parents said she had shamed them, and they did not want her back.

Phoenix police said calls had come in from all over the US offering money, or even to adopt the young girl.

The boys, Liberian immigrants aged nine to 14, have been charged with rape.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8168480.stm

[Bobbieo]

1. Doesn't sound like these parents will make good American citizens.

Any way they can be deported and leave their child behind with a caring family? Isn't this why we are fighting in Afghanistan?

[Divine Discontent]

3. exactly! there are great people that come here & there are crappy people that do this kind of cruel

behavior.

Far too often I read crime stories involving people from backwards countries that have moved to the U.S., that involve rape, murder, shootings, homophobia, and now this one. As many have said, they seem to bring the closed-minded and superstitious views with them - and this is the result - a little girl abandoned after 4 boys from her country rape her here...

so sad. I'm thrilled to see so many want to help. Those people should feel such shame from their actions, not the girl.

[Kali]

17. yeah man

because there is none of that already here




:eyes:

[Divine Discontent]

85. "honor" burning, abuse, abandoning, killings is something strickly a foreign thing. I am not sorry

for pointing that out. Asian/Arab countries are rife with that disgusting series of "honor" BS against women and children...

[marshall]

11. Is she a US girl or a Liberian girl?

The headlining is confusing and misleading, especially in juxtaposition to the first sentence.

[TheWraith]

28. It's a Liberian family that moved to the US.

Whether she's a US citizen, I don't know. The headline refers to the case that way because it's a UK news source.

[marshall]

42. I guess the Brits aren't into hypenating multiple nationalities like we are

Thanks for your explanation. If it were a US newspaper I guess it would read Liberian-American girl--we've moved on from the melting pot to the salad bowl.

[pnwmom]

67. The family are refugees. n/t

[Lorien]

14. No, we're fighting in Afghanistan to establish an oil pipeline that runs from

the Caspian sea to Pakistan and India. Every other excuse is just that-an excuse.

[jeff30997]

15. You got that right !

I totally agree with you.

[jwirr]

26. To pakistan and India so they will have enough energy to keep doing

the jobs we sent them. Good plan. :sarcasm:

[Mimosa]

86. ^Lorien and jwirr rawk!^

I'd like to read a whole topic on Afghanistan. Why do our guys and gals have to DIE for the pipeline?

[Odin2005]

32. BS conspiracy theory.

And what's bad about an oil pipeline, anyway? (OK, besides the environmental consequences of using CO2, but it's not like we can immediately quit using oil.). Better than that oil going through Russia.

[Lars39]

39. Conspiracy theory?! Read up on the subject a bit:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2608713.stm

[Odin2005]

44. I didn't mean the pipeline itself was a conspiracy theory.

I'm talking about the claim that we went into Afghanistan in order to get the pipeline built, which is crap. And I dare say that veers close to "Truther" MIHOP "The government destroyed the WTC in order to invade Afghanistan and build a pipeline!!1!!111!" type of BS.

[TrogL]

47. that was the original reason

See my webpage below. The problem is almost all new wells in the Caspian have been fizzles so there's been nothing to put in the pipeline. So now there's an oil war with no oil.

[Lorien]

89. But it's still pretty darn profitable

so it continues while we fight for crumbs to keep sick Americans alive inside an unaffordable for profit health care system. As Bill Maher said; "Not everything in America has to be done for profit." We just need to convince our reps of that.

I do wish that they were honestly trying to find ways of ending the Taliban's stranglehold on that Nation. Women are prisoners there, but so far we've done them few favors.

[pocoloco]

58. Explain bldg 7 again, I'm sure folks would like to know!

[Lars39]

61. PNAC....one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan.

[readmoreoften]

80. Right. We just HAPPEN to also be building a pipeline. And contractors just happen to be making a

killing in profits: billions of dollars coming back to the US. The US population employed by the defense industry (parts manufactured in all 50 states, intentionally, so employees will lobby their congresspersons) gets a big old boon. Military Keynesianism at its finest.

[jwirr]

87. That is not what we said. Those are your words. We are saying that

middle east oil has been a goal since WWII and is more so now. The pipeline is the only remaining goal we have in Afghanistan. Ben Laden is not there anymore. When the oil is not going to us then why are our men and women fighting for it. Let India and Pakistan and their newly acquired American jobs do their own dealing for oil.

[fascisthunter]

40. thank you

if anyone really believes we are in that part of the World for anything but selfish business reasons, they are living in a dream world. Unless $$$$$ is involved, America does squat.

[pnwmom]

66. Swearing the loyalty oath should include swearing an oath to our laws,

and to our core belief: "ALL are created equal."

[JohnWxy]

72. good idea. Sounds like the cultural divide is way to wide for them to make the transition to

a post medeivel Western culture. The four boys should go too. People who grow up is a drasticlly different culture can on a superficial level learn to navigate in our society, but you can't change a persons thinking (and conditioning) that quickly - especially when you are talking about social values and mores that are vastly different. If they are able to demonstrate thay can make the transition, okay. But if they show they are not able to make the transition and their inabliity risks others around them, then experiment over. Good bye. Good luck, but good bye.

[ingac70]

2. Put the parents....

on the first plane back home.

[Donnachaidh]

7. yup.

Take their ass-backwards attitudes out of here. :thumbsup:

[bainz]

21. Exactly

Lets get all these furiners out of here.

[Donnachaidh]

23. don't have a problem with *furiners* -- DO have a problem with

Disgusting male-oriented shitty treatment of women. ANY sort of that nonsense. The kid gets RAPED and the parents disown her? We've got enough crap to deal with regarding rape and violence - we don't need to be importing bass-ackwards bullshit like this.

[Odin2005]

33. Exactly. That misogynistic crap has no place in a Western country.

It belongs in the dustbin of history, instead.

[get the red out]

52. Take the kids and send the adults packing

Give the kids a chance and send the adults packing back where they came from. I was watching TV and some bitch psychologist said it was because they were refugees; well that poor little girls fat-ass looser mother that blames her for getting gang raped hadn't missed any damn meals as a refugee. Piece of lard ass shit that she is. The whole lot of them blaming that little girl and letting the boys learn it is ok to rape her. Send the whole mess of them home without any of their kids. Pieces of shit. Get the fucking hell out of our country you damned monsters!!!!!

[meow2u3]

64. Those excuses for parents deserve a quick lesson in American feminism

I'd beat the shit out of the mother and castrate the father, all while beating them to within an inch of their woman-hating lives--if I could get away with it! I absolutely despise people who blame rape victims for their own suffering, as if the poor little kid could stand up to a gang of teeange boys ten times her size. How twisted are these parents? And the parents committed no crime for disowning their own daughter?! :wtf:

They should be locked up for child abuse! AFAIC, the parents are accessories, if not accomplices, to child molesters.

[WriteDown]

90. Castration is part of American feminism?!

Whoa there.

[qazplm]

73. I think you are missing an r

in your handle because you are missing your "brainz"

You really think her comment was about "furiners?"

[glowing]

4. Its wonderful to see the response for this girl... when I hear the reaction to

a bad situation such as this.. an outpouring of care and love for this little girl, it makes me have just a bit more hope for this ragged country.

[intaglio]

5. Already reported

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6128240

[dipsydoodle]

6. The subject here is the subsequent outcry

However - thank for posting the other link.

[ejbr]

8. We, as a country, can tell the family that we share their feelings

However, it is her family that have shamed us and we do not want them back. C'ya!

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Note how the parents of the rapists are not shamed

only the parents of the victims. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING???????

I hope the poor child gets LOTS of help. I've worked with women who were gang raped as children--some never get over the trauma, part of which was their family blaming them for the attack. Those boys have ruined a life that will take a long time and lots of work to repair. They deserve the maximum penalty.

[1monster]

12. What really disturbs me, other than the exceedling harm done to the child by both the

rapists and her family, is the age of the rapists.

Nine years old for one of these boys tells me that he, at least, has also been sexually abused. Either by his companions in the rape of the girl, or by others.

And once sexual abuse victims start acting out on others, it is almost impossible to change the direction of the abuser. There seems to be no cure for sexual abusers, especially when the behavior starts so young.

My heart goes out to the girl. I hope that whoever she is placed with will have the grace, the understanding, the comprehension, and the empathy to give her back her sense of self, her self respect, her self esteem, the understanding that she was not at fault in any way, and the knowledge of how to best protect herself in the future.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. Thanks for your insight

I hadn't thought about the fact that the 9 year old had likely also suffered abuse. And to think there is no cure--sad, sad.

[mntleo2]

48. there could be help for these kids who are abused IF ...

...young sex offenders would be treated for their own abuse first. They are not, even underage sex offenders are not. The reason that so many even adult offenders are repeat offenders is that they have never been treated for their own abuse (excluding psychopaths who could not feel empathy for anyone except themselves and may be incurable). These offenders often have a deep belief they were "lucky" for their abuse without dealing with their own betrayal as children by the adult(s) that abused them. This attitude is most prevalent in male abuse victims, but female victims often struggle for years with the guilt of the rape(se) because they enjoyed it at the time, when in fact they were manipulated into wanting it and females are capable of orgasm at the age of three. The betrayal is in an adult crossing the line that adults should not ever cross.

It is important to understand that in our society, which seems bent on revenge rather than healing, we are only destined to repeat the same thing over and over while we beat others to death. This applies to many punitive issues, but specifically if we truly wanted child sex abuse to stop or become significantly less, we really need to examine the methods we support now. How can we expect sex offenders, 80% of them who were abused as children themselves, to find empathy for their victims if they have no therapy for their own abuse and cannot face their own rape as children as betrayal? Instead they are punished and if you think sex offender counseling is kind or does anything, you are wrong! It is based on brain washing techniques that even the counselors themselves admit do not work and that their "therapy" has an 80% recidivism rate! I often wonder when we are going to get wise and look into this "therapy" and re-consider what is happening because it often makes the offender worse, not better. Over 90% of sex offender counselors are or have been victims themselves and have an agenda to punish veiling this their techniques as therapy. In other words they do the same thing sans the sex to their clients as their clients did to their victims. These "therapists" may have degrees in psychology but they are not educated about human sexology so they have little idea about the physiology of sex much less the emotional connections with sex that causes these sick fixations with adults. and children who abuse are often acting out what happened to them, especially with the male child who victimizes while female children victims are often re-abused (blame themselves).

I am sick about the parents rejecting this girl because the rape was not her fault. But I am also sick about these boys who in Liberia were very likely abused as child soldiers in their sick war whose greatest weapon is rape. These parents need some major education and this little girl needs a healing family who will accept her and help her heal. You have to say, as hard as it is to immigrate to this country, the whole community of Liberians in this country must have been through something horrific or they wouldn't be here.

It is time to heal, not cause more pain!

Cat In Seattle <---rape victim who has been enlightened

[surfinshell]

43. I understand different cultures

but they aren't in Liberia anymore and I think we need to protect the girl and deport the parents and ALL of the boys who committed this terrible act. Our culture should never tollerate rapists and they won't change it's in their blood.

[Odin2005]

35. It's misogyny. The girl is valued only for her value as a virgin for a potential husband.

:grr:

[femrap]

51. The rapists

are going to be nothing but leeches. Raping at such young ages...jail is too nice a place for them.

I hope the little girl gets all the help she needs. She will never forget these acts of violence and will change her life forever.

I detest patriarchy and its misogynist ways. Will the Dark Ages ever end?

[dorktv]

60. They are in Maricopa County and by the way, they have not pled or been found guilty.

So until they have been given due process of law, they are innocent.

[femrap]

81. Are you a

big fan of lawyer TV shows? So glad you empathize with the rapists. And not a word about the victim.

dork, indeed.

buh bye.

[dorktv]

83. I was not aware pointing out someone's rights means I automatically empathize anything.

There is a reason that the Constitution enshrines due process of law.

[Honeycombe8]

16. I think immigrants should have to go through a cultural learning course

in our country. They may decide not to take on our values and customs, but at least they should be made aware of how our country is not like third world countries or backward middle eastern countries. Mainly that girls and women are not like cows and other property.

They should be informed about girls and women having equal rights, and are in fact equal in every way in our country...how it is illegal to do anything to anyone else's body (male or female) w/o their consent, except in certain limited situations. They should be taught about what Christmas is all about here (the tradition), and other traditions (Christmas lights, eggnog, gifts), Easter, MLK day, Labor Day, Memorial Day.

[Odin2005]

37. Unfortunately if you try doing that many "liberals" will attack it as "cultural imperialism"

The cultural relativist "Left" is no friend of human rights and women's rights

[get the red out]

53. You have that right!!!

I get blasted all the time at DU for not supporting misogyny in the nice lefty cultural relativism kind of way. I was not registered as a Democrat for many years because of that kind of belief and accepting horrors as all equal due to culture.

[Odin2005]

57. +1

[EndersDame]

55. Fuck that

Human rights are human rights. I will never respect any culture that does not show respect to their fellow humans

[pnwmom]

68. And they should have to accept the equality of women if they choose to move here. n/t

[benld74]

18. HEY MOM and DAD! Your daughter DID NOT SHAME YOU as much

as THE BOTH OF YOU are shaming your entire family! Your idiotic medieval, preVictorian hald assed beliefs. AS far as the statement by the police " "They didn't abandon the child," Phoenix police sergeant Andy Hill told AFP news agency. "They committed no crime. They just didn't support the child, which led to CPS coming over there."
If I don't support my 8 year old daughter, there must be something in the books to charge me with.
IF not, find something.
Doesn't take a rocket scientist

[Deep13]

19. We should show tolerance for their culture.

:sarcasm:

Well, she's not a virgin, therefore, no one will marry her, therefore, she's worthless and we should throw her away.

That is fucked up beyond words. It only goes to show that people are primarily creatures of unquestioning imitation of our culture and not primarily rational beings. A few minutes of rational thought exposes how cruel and barbaric this practice is. Kind of like how there have always been folks who knew how bad slavery was despite its wide-spread acceptance.

[drm604]

20. That headline is awful.

It's not your fault, that's the actual headline, and you did as required by DU rules, but that is a terrible headline.

She's not a "rape girl", she's a girl.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. Family Disowns Girl is no headline. Family Disowns Raped Girl

would be the proper headline.

Family Disowns Rape Girl is wrong in SO many ways.

But I've long since given up on expecting the media to understand the English language. We are living in a post-literate society (I say as my TV mumbles in the background.)

[drm604]

36. It's not just grammatically questionable.

It makes it sound like having been raped is part of her identity - who she is. "Hey look, it's rape girl." Wrong, wrong, wrong.

[RaleighNCDUer]

49. Exactly. nt

[omega minimo]

71. Thank you

[DatManFromNawlins]

91. I notice this a lot from the British press

Callling her a "raped girl" means what happened to her. Calling her a "rape girl" seems to indicate what she is.

[mn9driver]

22. Liberia is 40 percent Christian, 40 percent Animist/indiginous

and 20 percent Muslim/Hindu/Bahá'í/other. The article doesn't specify the religion of the parents, but this sort of unacceptable (in western culture) reaction makes me think they are probably not christian.

[Donnachaidh]

25. if the religion is not known, you can't *assume* anything

Christianity has no clean slate in it's attitude towards women. Even today, with those anti-choice groups. And the abstinence groups.

[mn9driver]

27. Hmmm. Looking for the words "I assume" in my post.

Maybe you can help me find them?

[tjwash]

34. Generally "makes me think they are not christian" is synonymous with assume.

If you really needed the help finding them.

I know they may be hard to spot on top of that moral high-horse you just galloped in here on...

[Donnachaidh]

56. "makes me think they are probably not christian."

You ARE assuming with that comment. :eyes:

[chascarrillo]

38. I also assume that the following people are not Christians

George W Bush
Dick Cheney
Alberto Gonzales
Michelle Bachmann
Mark Sanford
John Ashcroft
Sarah Palin

[Deep13]

70. Do they believe in Jesus Christ?

If so, they're Christians. We have no more basis to call them fake-Christians than they have to call liberal Christians fake. Either way, conservatives and liberals each disagree with the other's beliefs. Of course the conservatives think they are right and everyone else is wrong. They are not in the logically untenable position of pretending everyone's beliefs (except theirs and this girl's family's beliefs, apparently) are equally valid.

[sledgehammer]

41. Western is not equal to Christian

And even then, you have child rapists, parents murdering their children, a father keeping his daughter in a dungeon and raping her for decades, etc. in Western countries.

There are jerks everywhere, and in all religions/cultures/nations. There's no reason to have any inclinations over the family's religion.

Whatever beliefs/practices they follow are disgusting and unacceptable. This has to be a crime of some sorts. I think it's best that the girl is never returned to the parents. Now we just need to figure out what to do with the parents (deporting, jailing, taking away any other kids if they have them, etc).

[krabigirl]

62. Seriously. I would bet some fundie families would do the same to their daughter.

[Psephos]

82. I wonder if you could find even *one* example to support your stereotype n/t

[Mopar151]

24. Anger doesn't even begin...

to describe my feelings toward several parties in this case. Rember, Pheonix is home of "Sherrif Joe", grandstanding moron and waste of taxes - so services are compromised. Is child neglect not a crime in Arizona? How is this not child abuse? How long have the families been here? Is there a social service keeping track of them? is there a sizeable Liberian community there? How has that community reacted?

This crap reminds me of bride burning and "female circumcision", among other nasty things. Is the family upset 'cuz her "bride price" has fallen? Grrr:mad::mad::mad::mad::nuke:

[midnight]

30. But remember how well liked he is because as someone from

Phoenix told me she voted for him because he was not going to allow the prisoners to think that they were going to be feed better than our soldiers. This person is very christian and votes for this man.

[Odin2005]

31. But, we need to respect cultural differences!!!

:sarcasm:

[Zavulon]

77. Exactly. (sarcasm)

Things like this sick story are the first things I cite when some idiot flatly claims that all cultures are of equal value. Like it or not, not all are. Cultures which would abandon a poor little girl for being raped are fucking twisted.

[JonQ]

45. Barbarians

I remember hearing the sister (may have been cousin) saying that this wasn't right, that this girl was causing dissension among their community and she should stop acting like this, and the boys should be released because they are all the same people.

An 8 year old gets violently gang raped and they (even her own parents) blame her for stirring up trouble, what a despicable culture. Decent parents would at the least be calling for the harshest penalties against these future felons.

[Djarun]

46. Phoenix Rape

What is not mentioned in the BBC article is that the 9 year old boy involved is the rape victims own cousin. Also the parents want their daughter back, and blame the U.S. government for whatever reason.

[blondeatlast]

65. Could you please provide a link to the article? Thanks and welcome to DU. How to link:

Simply copy and paste the URL into the text bos, provide a subeject in the subject line and the software does the rest.

[LynneSin]

50. I'm not one to be rude about immigrants but I hope they ship that family back to liberia

and find that girl a loving home where she can grown to be an amazing woman. Hell I'd adopt her!

[NewAgeThinker]

54. Unblievable

I can't believe that still today in 2009 there are such cases of this

[sarcasmo]

59. Should they not be tried for child abandonment?

[shireen]

63. prosecute the parents!

horrible people!
:mad:

[pnwmom]

69. Rape only became a crime in Liberia three years ago.

The family came here in 2005. I'm NOT excusing this -- I'm shocked.

We obviously should be doing a lot more in educating immigrants than we are.

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/51596022.html

Tuopeh and his family are Liberian refugees, and they've been in the United States since 2005.

SNIP

A Liberian official with the Denver Seminary says in his homeland, rape was often used as a weapon and a means of obedience.

The country didn't even consider rape a crime until three years ago.

He says although the family is now in America, they still have their Liberian world view.

SNIP

[GeorgeGist]

74. "US Rape girl' owned by BBC News.

[kitty1]

75. In In Canada recently an Afghanistani father drowned his daughters...

because they were becoming to Westernized in their behavior and rebellious.
The 3 sisters were put in a car which capsized into the Rideau canal in Kingston Ont.
One of the sisters was dating a Pakistani boy against her Father's approval.
Investigators have now established that this was considered an "honor killing" by her Parents and brother. The Father's ex wife was also in the vehicle at the time.
At first the Parents told Police that one of his daughters was just learning to drive and took off with the car which she steered over the canal. There were no skid marks though. Police always looked at the case as suspicious.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090723/national/submerged_car_bodies
In India, new brides are still routinely burned alive, if they aren't accepted into the family.
Women in Iran are still stoned for having a beer or leaving their house unescorted.
In many ways, some cultures have not moved on from a stone age mentality especially when it comes to women.

[BreweryYardRat]

92. Christ, that's depressing.

Poor girls probably never would have considered killing their relatives, even if they were aware their own safety was at risk.

Fucking backwards primitives -- if a culture is so devoid of empathy and compassion that it's considered "honorable" to kill women over petty little squabbles, it needs to GO. Cultural relativism only stretches up to a point -- and such hideous murders are well on the other side of that point.

Canada ought to reinstate the death penalty, just for these scum.

[quakerboy]

76. Why is this BBC

and not every single possible US outlet, leading for days? If the situation was slightly different, it might just, eh?

Either way, that poor girl is going to have some issues in life. I hope that she gets a good family and a great counselor.

[JonQ]

78. I saw it on CNN yesterday

and foxnews and a few other places.

[quakerboy]

79. How did the coverage compare to

Oh, say, Jonbenet Ramsy or Natali Holloway? Or even Ashley Todd? I have neglected to watch much news this week, as most of the topics are repeated here ad infinitum, and not much has seemed of much import to me. But this seems like a much bigger deal to me than, say, Gates, anything to do with MJ, or the somewhat crazed governor of Texas, and its the first I've heard of it.

[JonQ]

88. I think those are different scenarios

she didn't disappear, or get murdered. Not that it was ok, but it was a lesser crime than murder.

Also there may be some trepidation on the part of the media to cover this as the perpetrators were A) minors (so you can't give too many details) and B) black, likely muslim immigrants. Any coverage would have to be very delicate to avoid accusations of racism, religious discrimination, or xenophobia.

Doesn't make it right, but that's the world we live in.

[Sparky 1]

84. How many religions *don't* suppress females?

[treestar]

93. At least she is in the U.S.

Or a western country where the laws and government don't condone the behavior.