Pool Boots Kids Who Might "Change the Complexion"

[RamboLiberal]

Source: NBC Philadelphia

More than 60 campers from Northeast Philadelphia were turned away from a private swim club and left to wonder if their race was the reason.

"I heard this lady, she was like, 'Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?' She's like, 'I'm scared they might do something to my child,'" said camper Dymire Baylor.

The Creative Steps Day Camp paid more than $1900 to The Valley Swim Club. The Valley Swim Club is a private club that advertises open membership. But the campers' first visit to the pool suggested otherwise.

"When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool," Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

The next day the club told the camp director that the camp's membership was being suspended and their money would be refunded.



Read more: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Pool-Boots-Kids-Who-Might-Change-the-Complexion.html

---

More from local Fox station:

Officials at a daycare accuse a club in Montgomery County of discriminating against the minority kids in their program.

They're inner city children spending the summer in the basement of a Philadelphia elementary school.

But every Monday afternoon, they were supposed to get a welcome break at the Valley Club in Huntingdon Valley, where they'd get to swim for an hour and a half.

But after only one Monday, the plan derailed.

"I get a phone call from the board chair saying, you're no longer going to be able to swim here,” Alethea Wright of Creative Steps, Inc.

-----

The president of the Valley Club, John Duesler, told Fox 29 by phone the club "underestimated the impact the children would have." He said they "fundamentally changed the atmosphere" at the pool.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/070709_Swim_Club_Accused_Of_Discrimination

Hard to believe this crap is still happening in 2009! And in Pennsylvania - but being a resident I know there are racists here. If I was a member of that f'in pool club I'd be demanding my money back - wonder if any of the members will?

Here's the club's website: http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html

At the local Fox News site I posted there is a comment from a Johnny Bean who is in great glee because apparently this John Duesler is an Obama supporter.

Johnny Beans comment: BTW - Matt Drudge linked this article about Philly’s Valley Swim Club denying black kids’ access: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc ... exion.html .
I checked out the swim club’s website ( http://www.thevalleyclub.com/contact.html ) to see who John Duesler is but the website is absent of any staff/leadership names. Undeterred, I googled John Duesler in PA and find there is a Dr. John G. Duesler, Jr. of greater Philly ( http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dr-john-g-d ... r/3/6a/715 ) and his community link takes you to http://www.opositiveprogram.org/our_group.html .

I found it interesting I was taken to an Obama fund raising website and thought "maybe where there is smoke there is at least friction." But, I didn’t want to jump to conclusions. So I Googled “Dr. John G. Duelser, Jr.” and “Valley Swim Club” and struck gold: http://www.thevalleyclub.com/downloads/ ... rttime.pdf . The good doctor’s full name & title is at the bottom of the form.

In addition to Dr. Duelser’s support for the One, his website link on http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dr-john-g-d ... r/3/6a/715 leads to this: http://www.thechocolatesquad.com/ .

[UndertheOcean]

1. is this 1909 ?

[glitch]

130. Only for people who don't believe in evolution.

Turns out you do have to believe in it in order to practice it.

[shanti]

174. thank you!

:grr: these attitudes are disgusting, ESPECIALLY given the fact that we have a biracial president.

[Lorien]

228. Seems that way. I have a hard time believing that KIDS would get out of a

pool if other kids who were not the same race were in it. I used to swim at a public pool every summer when I was a kid and I barely took any notice of the other swimmers-I was just having too much fun swimming to notice! I would think that the same could be said of most kids, even the ones who had been taught to be racists. The owners are just making up bullshit excuses for their racism.

[Sanity Claws]

2. Read the comments

Shocking. Truly shocking.

[grace0418]

29. The comments are disgusting.

And excuse for every racist fuckweed to show their support for all the other racist fuckweeds.

[Posteritatis]

51. And coming in at an incredible rate; I wonder what's going on there? (nt)

[Quantess]

103. I'm sure this story is being discussed at RW discussion boards,

FR or worse, like the sites-that-cannot-be-named.

[Posteritatis]

140. Even stuff like those or 4chan or something...

The comments were being posted at a rate of several a minute, and almost all of them seemed like Klan talking points. I've only rarely seen that happen on news articles before, so I'm wondering where that's been tossed around to. Just FR or something wouldn't cut it.

[Quantess]

151. Now there are only 248 comments showing.

Earlier there had been 1500+ comments.

[shanti]

179. where are the comments?

i looked and the nbc site was down.

[Posteritatis]

202. Looks like they were deleted shortly after the article went up

It got 1750 or so in the first hour, almost all of which were impressively bigoted even for conservatives on the Internet.

[uppityperson]

119. I am having a difficult time coming up with an appropriate comment about them that would not be dele

deleted immediately. Incredible.

[grace0418]

120. I asked them all to evolve.

I wonder what kind of vile responses that got.

[Posteritatis]

142. It looks like the site flushed the whole comment thread

Not that I can blame them given the bullshit going on in it. Yargh.

[chemp]

3. just read the "club rules"

There is no place in the document where it details that "darkies are not allowed."

Can they be sued?

[Sanity Claws]

44. The pool is a public accomodation

Race discrimination in a public accommodation is a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Of course, it is not written in the rules. I'm surprised that the employee actually said such a statement.

[Wizard777]

76. No it's a private club. It is not open to the general public. Quite obviously.

[SCantiGOP]

79. you're right about 'public accommodation'

We had a racist asshole bar b que restaurant owner in SC who took a case all the way to the US Supreme Court alleging that 'public' only meant publicly owned, and not just open to the public. Of course, it was obvious that the legislative intent of the 1964 act was specifically to cover motels, restaurants, etc and he lost in a unanimous opinion. This was 40 years ago! They need to come down hard on these people.

[Egnever]

4. Wow..........

Thats just unbelievable. At a time when we have a black president this kind of shit is still going on at country clubs. It just blows my mind.

I would love to know if all the white kids got out voluntarily when they saw the colored kids or if they were dragged out by parents/nannies.. etc.

If the children themselves are already so racist it is very sad.

[MNDemNY]

5. Click on "contact" and give them a piece of your mind. I did.

[emilyg]

9. Will do.

[HopeHoops]

10. Oh, I just did.

Assholes. I hope they get shut down by financial burdens from lawsuits resulting from this action.

[JTFrog]

20. I did too. I hope karma catches up to them. n/t

[grace0418]

25. I did.

What fucking idiots.

[abbeyco]

116. I asked if members had to take off their sheets

when they swam. Wouldn't want any of the poor widdle racists to drown.

What a bunch of pigs....and my apologies to pigs.

[Ian David]

6. Rules of the club are available for download here

PDF DOCUMENT: http://www.thevalleyclub.com/downloads/2009_Rules_of_Operation.pdf PDF DOCUMENT

I suggest we ALL do it and see for ourselves

Bandwidth costs (them) money, so try not to download it over and over again. Unless you accidentally delete it or something and need a new copy.

[hunter]

7. My wife remembers neighbors who wouldn't let "coloreds" use their pool.

This was in California in the 'sixties and 'seventies. Our city was as white as Ivory Soap so you could actually name everyone who wasn't allowed to use their pool.

It's disgusting that anyone swam in their pool.

[EFerrari]

154. Sunnyvale was segregated too, in those days. When a couple moved in

with an adopted daughter who was from a Native American tribe in Alaska, that family was frozen out of everything. And when they went to move, my sweet neighbors started a rumor they were going to sell to a black family.

They were a Navy family and they put in their own pool.

[bluestateguy]

8. "Oh, heavens to Betsy! Keep my child away from Negroes!"

"Margarita (the nanny) tell Dylan and Caitlyn to get out of the pool NOW!"

Got to keep those kids as sheltered as possible: gated all white communities, all white private schools, all white country clubs, trust funds ("what? I don't want my child having a job before finishing high school"), elite private colleges and of course all white fraternities and sororities.

When you raise children in that type of environment, one should not be surprised if they react to black people as the "Other".

[dipsydoodle]

11. Fuck

I thought it was bad enough when I was on holiday, from the UK , in Clearwater FL in 1981 when I was on bus ,standing, and the look I got from a coloured lady was saying "would you like my seat".

[MARALE]

12. From the article

"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.

I really con not believe that this is going on. Wow, no words.

[PassingFair]

16. From the state that brought us Rick Santorum....

what's so hard to believe?

[HopeHoops]

157. NO- NO- NO- Santorum is was a VIRGINIA resident - he LIED to get elected in PA.

He bought a tiny house in Penn Hills, never spent a single night in it and used that to get elected in PA. He lived, and still does, in Leesburg, VA. He milked Penn Hills out of $100,000 for some "cyber school" for his kids because he had an "official residence" in their district. He is scum of the most vile sort and as a resident of Pennsylvania I formally reject him as our responsibility. I DO however have pride in ejecting that sack of shit and sending back to his home state of Virginia so he could join the clown tank at FOX.

[PassingFair]

180. Somebody in PA had to have VOTED for him....

:evilgrin:

I'm SO glad you overthrew the weirdo!!!

:yourock:

[RamboLiberal]

185. Actually little Ricky was from PA

My side of the state actually - at least not my congressional district where he first got elected to congress. It was only after he became a senator I think that he sold his Mt. Lebanon house and bought the shack in Penn Hills for $87,000 as a front for residency & for getting free cyber schooling for his rugrats while really living in a near million dollar mansion in VA.

[MineralMan]

13. Email sent. I hope they're proud of themselves...

assholes.

[LaurenG]

14. These are the same people who would vote for Palin (or someone like her)

I feel so sad reading this that it makes me want to give up on people. :cry:

[RamboLiberal]

22. Unfortunately this Duesler guy may be an Obama supporter

A comment on the local Fox News site has a Johnny Bean tracking Duesler down on the internet & if this is the same guy he has a link to a blood raising drive in the name of Obama back at the inauguration. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dr-john-g-duesler-jr/3/6a/715
http://www.opositiveprogram.org/

[bluestateguy]

33. Some people are fine with a black president, but don't want to associate with them personally

Suburban Philly is pretty Democratic now, though it did not used to be.

[LaurenG]

43. Good grief!

I have no words. :(

[CATagious]

15. what fucking year is this??

just a couple days ago I was having a conversation with my 5yo daughter. She was telling me about the flag on the moon and that she learned about it in pre-school. I asked her what else she has learned in school. She said she learned that blacks and whites used to hate each other just because of the color of their skin. And she said, "How crazy is that?!"

I guess I am doing something right. I was very proud!

[harun]

17. PA is the most overtly racist state I have lived in. They think they are

better than the "other" racists places because they don't hide it.

Lot's of good people here too though.

[Dappleganger]

18. Is this the South?

Guess that racism is alive and well everywhere.

[raccoon]

63. It sure is. Does that surprise you? nt

[HughBeaumont]

134. Come to Ah-HIGH-ah sometime.

You head south of Lorain County (even certain parts of NE Ohio are not-so-veiled racist) and it's pretty much Repukes and racists, with only Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati stopping the plague.

[Dappleganger]

161. Had no idea...

somehow I was under the wrong impression that only the South was still backwards (and I live here, too).
What a shame!

[noiretextatique]

198. tom metzger, white supremacist freak, lives in california

california, outside of the LA and SF metro areas is pretty much a red state.

[msanthrope]

87. Yep. I've never lived in a more segregated city. n/t

[spag68]

216. Pa. is like

Philly-Pittsburgh and Alabama in between.

[JanusAscending]

19. I just sent them a scathing letter.

I told them that this was going to go Nationwide, and that I hoped the kids took them to court and SUED THE CRAP out of them!! In 2009, with a sitting Black President, this is INEXCUSABLE!!:nuke: Kicking this thread, and Rec. I hope this goes viral, so the whole country see's it!! Thanks for posting it here!! JA

[nyc 4 Biden]

42. Same here.

I sent them a scolding letter as well.

[Moonwalk]

21. I wonder if it was purely skin color, purely class or both....

I mean, what did the swim club assume when they made this deal with these people? Did they assume the kids would be white, and that was okay even if they were inner city kids? Or did they assume the kids were upscale kids, and color didn't matter so long as they were of a certain class?

Or both?

Not that it makes any difference, but if it's color, then that means that any person of the wrong skin shade will be turned away, including President Obama's kids! If it's class, then their assertion that the kids would "change the atmosphere," translates to, "These inner city kids (likely of any color) ain't like us! They don't have our manners, our values, our way of doing things." And this came with the assumption that being from the inner city, the kids weren't trustworthy. That they'd vandalize the facilities, get into fights with the usual swim club kids, and generally be "ganster."

Either way, however, I see a lawsuit, especially if the kids did nothing outside of arriving and getting into the pool. A private club can have whatever rules it likes, but if it opens its doors to the public, then it can't suddenly say, "Oh, wait, you didn't tell us the kids were of this color/class..." If the kids made trouble, that's one thing. If the kids made no trouble at all, then it's going to court.

[bluestateguy]

27. That's correct. They paid their money.

Unless someone(s) broke club rules--and the article does not say that anyone did--one could claim a possible breach of contract in this case.

[whathehell]

108. It was color, trust me. I grew up in this neighborhood.

[MercutioATC]

23. My bet is that it was more behavior than race that started this ball rolling.

Urban youths (of any race) tend to be more boisterous than suburban or rural youths. That's a gross generalization, and the difference in behavior isn't necessarily "misbehaving", it's just different.

The club president claims that race was not the deciding factor. He might very well be lying, but there IS an alternative explanation.

[redqueen]

26. Did anyone at any time say they were ejected due to behavior?

It'd be really easy to find out if that was the actual cause.

I'll be you a dollar to a doughnut that is most definitely not the case.

[MercutioATC]

45. Not specifically, but the president DID specifically state that race was not the issue.

Like I said, he may have been lying, but I think you'd have to have seen the kids' behavior to really know.

[redqueen]

48. Laughable.

How does it make any sense at all to take such an action, and not give a reason?

And when he denied it was racism, that might have been a good time to give the actual reason why. But... ???

Not sure why you're trying to thik up up a justification... but good luck with that.

[MNDemNY]

52. Maybe it hits too close to home.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MNDemNY]

68. Ok, your statements seem to have a RACIST slant.

OPEN. INCAPS. CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?

[MercutioATC]

91. In case you hadn't noticed, not all inner city residents are black.

The slant is "classist", not "racist"...but neither term actually applies in this case.

As I stated earlier, it's a generalization...but, in my experience, inner city recreational facilities DO tend to have a different energy level than suburban/club recreational facilities. I can logically believe that this may present an alternate explanation for the club's actions.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

99. I've actually determined that you're an imbicile, so it all works out.

Klan hoods and dunce caps bear some resemblance, so we appear to have found some common ground.

[MNDemNY]

101. You look good in your hood.

[MercutioATC]

113. As do you in your dunce cap.

[No Elephants]

173. Because testicles are the exclusive source of courage?

[MercutioATC]

57. Frankly, I have no dog in this fight. I have no reason to "justify" anybody's statements.

...but I've been to both inner city and suburban/club pools and have seen a marked difference in the behavior of the children.

I'm simply stating that it's at least possible that the behavior difference had more to do with this than race.

[redqueen]

59. It could have been that they were all filthy. Or that they were drunk.

Come on.

You're obviously quite willing to spend time thinking up alternate reasons for things... so think up a reason why he would deny it was racism, but not give the actual reason. Please.

[MercutioATC]

67. For the umpteenth time, he could very well be lying.

I stand by my assertion that there is at least one plausible reason other than racism, though.

[redqueen]

69. That's not what I asked.

But... thanks anyway.

[MNDemNY]

77. I think that poster Pailed..I mean bailed.

[MercutioATC]

95. I thought my post was reasonably explicit.

Why might he have said it wasn't based on race while declining to give a reason? Because he was lying (and it was, in fact, a decision based on race).

[redqueen]

110. Not to me it wasn't...

it seemed like you just ignored the question and repeated your assertion that there might be some other reason besides race.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree that him being a liar is the most likely reason that he'd opt to not give an actual reason.

[MercutioATC]

133. Apologies. I'm glad we're clear now.

You might not agree with my position, but I'm definitely not evading your question.

[MNDemNY]

64. Why would you Make such a hypothesis?

Projecting?

[No Elephants]

175. Right, You have no reason to conjure excuses for the actions of the club President, yet you keep on

doing it.

[66 dmhlt]

189. Frankly, when battling racism - we ALL have a dog in THAT fight

Directly from the cited story:

"When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool," Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."
(Emphasis added)

[polmaven]

66. After the fact, I'm sure he did.

Once confronted with the disgusting fact that his "club" was racist, and WIDE open to a well deserved law suit, I'm very sure he began backpedaling , big time.

[noiretextatique]

200. he said the kids would "change the complexion" of the club

nah...that's not racial at all.

[RamboLiberal]

30. Give me a break there are inner city "Y's" and other clubs

that can control the behaviour of inner city kids in the pools and facilities. Public pools as well. These kids got thrown out after one 90 minute session. If there was a behaviour problem why didn't they go to their lifeguards & the staff of this day care, tell them they had to discipline the kids and at least give them a 2nd outing to correct the problem?

[MercutioATC]

40. Have you ever BEEN to an inner city YMCA?

I have, and being the sedate suburbanite that I am, I was uncomfortable with the level of noise and rowdy behavior.

I agree that it would have been much more fair (and diplomatic) for the club to have expressed its concerns to the day care and given them a second chance.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

73. are you saying you can tell who the bad kids are by their skin color?

:sarcasm:

[No Elephants]

178. Seems to be saying that minority kids are noisier than white kids.

[MercutioATC]

223. My statement had nothing to do with race.

I clearly said that, based on my experience and as a generalization, kids at inner city pools were more boisterous than kids at club pools.

[No Elephants]

245. The OP is about African American kids, isn't it? And you went straight to noise.

[BumRushDaShow]

83. What is "inner city"?

Answer: Newspeak for "ghetto" or "Slums" full of "negroes". Dog whistle time.

And keep in mind that I am a multi-generational Philadelphian.

That place is about to feel some wrath.

[MercutioATC]

86. Webster's definition:

Main Entry:
inner city
Function:
noun
Date:
1961

: the usually older, poorer, and more densely populated central section of a city


...and that's identical to my definition.

[BumRushDaShow]

109. Like Port Richmond? Or Kensington? Or Torresdale?

Or have you been to Philadelphia (and would know about those sections)?

As an FYI, using that definition, you wouldn't have such a thing as a "older, poorer, and more densely populated 'central section'..." here in Philadelphia. Nice try though. :eyes:

[whathehell]

123. The area is not "inner city"...It used to be described as a "blue collar suburb

I grew up there in the fifties and sixties...They used to have a pool called "Boulevard Pool" which discriminated against Blacks...They did this by telling the kids that it was a "private club".

At the time, the area was about 95% White...but it's gotten more minorities in the past ten years or so.

Most of the people, as I recall, were pretty racist...The last time I was back, when my parents were still living, they were the only ones I knew who were not.

[MercutioATC]

136. My characterization was based on the journalist's statement that "They're inner city children".

I'm just working with the available information.


...and I don't deny that racism is prevalent in some communities. I grew up in one of them.

[whathehell]

153. I understand what you're saying. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

127. i wonder if any of the kids at the pool were swimmig in their underwear?

being poor, and not regular swimmers, some may not even have bathing suits.

i know that in reality there really isn't a whole lot of difference between the two- the sad reality is also that some people are 'grossed out' over a bunch of kids swimming in their underwear.

[No Elephants]

170. So, there were lots of reasons other than race, but no one bothered to state them?

Why would that be? Speaking for myself, I'd rather appear to be pro-swimwear than a bigot. And I have never seen minority kids swimming in their underwear. However, when my son was about 5, we found ourselves in a park with a water slide of which we were unaware> it was a hot day and he begged us to let him use the slide. So I let him go in his tightie whities. No one seeemed upset. Then again, my son is not African American.

Please also see Reply 184.

[dysfunctional press]

218. i didn't ssay that it happened- i wondered if it could have...

i've seen it plenty of times- kids swimming in their underwear instead of a regular 'bathing suit'. for a poor kid with no regular access to a pool/lake/river/etc.- a bathing suit could be an unnecessary 'luxury'.

[No Elephants]

247. I know what you said. I just wonder why you feel moved to speculate about

underwear instead of bathing suits on this particular thread. The articles in the OP, are about a racial issue, not a poverty issue or a swimwear issue. I am also puzzled why some posters here feel compelled to try to conjure up excuses for the club owner of any kind.

Anyway, someone who would get anymore freaked out by clean underwear than by a bathing suit whose cleanliness may well be a lot harder to determine is probably too much of an idiot to worry about. Besides, I've seen babies in pools wearing diapers, and no one threw anyone out of the place.

[RamboLiberal]

135. I taught karate at an inner city Y and also at surbuban school of my instructor

So I taught kids from lower income classes all the way up to rich kids. I didn't notice that big a difference in behavior. In fact some of the kids with the worse attitudes and behavior were the ones whose parents had some bucks and would come in with a lazy ass attitude daring the instructor to do something about you. They'd come in with a "you can't touch me" look on their face and a surly response to instructors. Meanwhile the parents were paying huge bucks at the surburban karate school for instructing their kids.

Kids could be rowdy and disrespectful at all income classes.

Some of the best and most respectful young karate students I saw was at one of our inner city schools under an instructor friend.

[MercutioATC]

146. Then our experiences have differed.

I agree that any kid can misbahave and that privileged kids often exhibit more of a "you can't touch me" attitude".

...but I'm not talking about misbehavior. It's been my experience that the children at inner city pools tend to engage in behavior that is louder and involves more physical contact. That's not misbehavior, but it DOES bear a measure of difference from the behavior I have observed at club pools...and that difference may make some people uncomfortable,

[RamboLiberal]

190. All kids are loud and boisterous when allowed to be

There was no visible difference I ever saw from the inner city karate school or the ones out in the nice suburbs.

Nor at the other youth activities I ever saw at the Y located in a working to lower class neighborhood.

Maybe the only difference is some of the kids from the suburbs could be little whiney wusses when anybody dared hit them a little too hard in the karate class. I swear in those schools we had black belt kids who couldn't have fought their way out of a paper bag.

[Dappleganger]

163. Kids are kids!

I used to be a lifeguard years ago and can attest that they ALL scream and break the rules if they aren't clear about what's allowed and enforced. Makes no difference what color they are.

[No Elephants]

177. Concerns about what? You're the only one claiming noise was the club's issue.

[JonLP24]

217. I've been to a Boys and Girls club growing up, same thing as YMCA I think

It was very diverse and not rowdy above any normal means as far as children generally behave. It is where I developed my interest in Sports especially football. I never been to a kids country club to compare behavior but I believe I'd much rather be at the Boys & Girls Club. In fact it was here when I first learned about racism.

I forgot mostly how the conservation went and when he mentioned racism, being the white kid that I was I thought he was talking about car racing. When he got done telling me I thought it was incredibiliy stupid for people to hold prejudices like that considering many of my friends were white, black, mexican-american, etc.

Though nothing from the OP mentions loud boisterous kids. It mentions the white kids leaving the pool because the minority kids entered or one of the parents afraid that one of the minority students would do something to her kid and the statement "Changing the complexition."

I wouldn't go down this road trying to defend or sit on the fence on this kind of behavior from the club owner.

[LanternWaste]

231. I worked at one for three summers...

I worked p/t at a South Dallas Y for three summers, and if by "noise and rowdy behavior..." you mean "laughing", "swimming", and "acting like children out of school for the summer", then you would be correct.

Although I have a difficult time perceiving how typical children's behavior could make an adult uncomfortable; yet I imagine we all have our own limits before kids can push us beyond tolerance...

[TerribleLarryDingle]

31. Did you not read the article?

"they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

[MercutioATC]

37. That's a secondhand account of what a pool attendant allegedly said.

Hardly enough for me to start sharpening knives.

[TerribleLarryDingle]

41. But enough for you to assume

that those inner city black children were being boisterous and obnoxious?

[MercutioATC]

46. No, enough for me to not make final conclusions without sufficient evidence.

If you'll reread my post, I allow that the president might be lying and it might be a racial issue.

I also believe that there is at least one other plausible scenario.


That doesn't constitute an "assumption" of anything.

[MNDemNY]

54. Tuck it in!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

72. "My bet is that it was more behavior than race that started this ball rolling."

That is what you posted. The term "my bet" implies some type of certainty. Does it not? The truth is you're already jumping to your own conclusions (based solely on where the kids are from) while telling others not to do the same.

[MercutioATC]

111. Yes, that's the scenario that I consider most likely.

To reach an equivalent position on the opposing side, you'd have to have to read a post that stated:

"My bet is that it's racism...but I've been to both inner city and club pools and. based on my experience, it very well could have been a difference in the children's behavior."

Have you seen a post like that yet?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

118. Irrelevant, the article makes no mention of behavior on the children's

part. Yet you somehow seem to be sure enough to "bet" that it's because they did something that warranted expulsion without any evidence. There's a name for what you're doing and it is stereotyping. You could have said something along the lines of: "Hey we don't know enough yet to reach any conclusions. Let's wait and see.". But you chose to generalize these kids behavior because of where they're from. Based on nothing more than some "gut" feeling or whatever.

[MercutioATC]

132. ...but it DOES state that the decision was not based on race.

I clearly stated that my opinion was based on a gross generalization and that it was also based on my personal experience. I further stated that the behavior I was speaking of wasn't "misbehavior"...it was just different than what you'd normally see at a club pool.

Have your experiences at inner city recreational facilities been different, or are you taking issue that I'm making the generalization (even though I presented it as a generalization)?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

137. I come from the so called inner city. Number 2 just because you admit to pulling

something out of thin air doesn't make it a worthwhile argument. I can say that my experience with women in the workplace is blah, blah, blah while reading an article on women who feel discriminated against. I wouldn't because i would know right away how silly it would be.

Again you're telling people that they're jumping to conclusions even though they're reactions come from the referenced article. Yet you jump to some silly conclusion and you did make it sound as if you where certain, while telling others not to do this. The point is we can all make shit up arbitrarily based on our experience but we damn well should expect that people will call us out on it.

[MercutioATC]

150. To use your analogy...

It has been my experience that businesses in the city tend to be more formal than rural businesses.

If I read an article that stated a female worker from the city who had recently taken employment with a rural business felt that she had been discriminated against...and her manager claimed that her difficulties had nothing to do with her gender, but because she made the other employees uncomfortable...

...I'd probably posit that the manager might very well be lying, but it was probable (or, at least, plausible) that the business culture difference was in fact the real issue.

And I'd for damn sure be eliminating all other possibilities before I called the manager a misogynist and suggested that we try to overwhelm his company's servers by repeatedly downloading business pamphlets.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

155. So what? Anything's possible. Yet you're acting as if you know any better to the

other people reacting to the article. But the truth is you don't. Making some silly generalization when nothing in the article or any other information backs it up is pretty useless. Don't you think?

I guess you would have figured this out by now. All the Club's manager had to do was say something like that yet he hasn't. Why is that? You want to make excuses for people hey go ahead. Knock yourself out.

Having actually worked in a rural town in Ohio I can sure as hell tell you that if the manager in your imaginary scenario did come out and say: "Hey this is what happened.". I wouldn't come out and say that there IS another explanation, that he's a sexist such and such. But according to your logic since the people I worked for were in fact extremely sexist I would be justified in saying the complete opposite based on that.

The fact is you don't know any better than the people that you're trying to "educate". And in fact you have said based on jack shit that there IS another explanation. Those are your words. Just because there can be doesn't mean that there is. And going on little silly ass stereotypes doesn't help your case at all.

[MercutioATC]

156. Where did I say that I "knew better" or attempt to "educate" anybody?

Almost every other poster on this thread has called the president of the club a racist.

I stated an alternate scenario and my opinion that the issue wasn't racism.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

158. OK so I'll take those words back. That was the impression you gave me

though. But ok again here are your words: "but there IS an alternative explanation.
". No there isn't. The point is we don't know. So far all we have is the article which in no way backs any of your claims. I'll try again.

If you want to get a point across then maybe you shouldn't make it based on stereotypes and stupid generalizations (I don't care how much you recognize that they are generalizations). Again just because there could be another explanation doesn't mean that there is as you so surely claim.

All you had to do was say "hey let's wait a minute and see if there was something else behind this". But no you come in here acting as if you know something. You stated it pretty emphatically and then you're surprised at the reactions you get. Why is this so hard to understand?

[MercutioATC]

162. So calling him a racist is ok but advancing an alternate explanation isn't?

I'm trying to understand how my post was characteristically different than any other in this thread.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

166. Based on the article racism is a likely conclusion. Yours not so much. When a second

article comes out that backs your "alternate explanation" feel free to advance it.

Oh and when people's "alternate explanations" are based on someone's stereotypical view they tend not to be well received.

[MercutioATC]

171. Ok, so only post when it agrees with the "likely conclusion" of the OP.

...even if you have an alternate opinion.

I'm just trying to get the rules straight.


I expected there would be those who disagreed with my post, what confuses me is your contention that there's something wrong with my actually posting it.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

176. Because it seemed as pointless as posting "Well the wife had to have

done something to get this started. I mean it's just an alternate theory" in an article talking about a domestic abuse claim. Sure many things are possible. So what? If you have some evidence other than some supposed experience that tis irrelevant since you presumably have no experience with the kids involved in this particular case.

No, there are no rules but it seemed in pretty bad taste based on the fact that you have nothing to back up your "alternate scenario". As I said you could have phrased it in a way that didn't come off as flame bait. But you did and some of us reacted accordingly. If anything in the article helped your claims then you probably wouldn't hear a peep from me. I thought your comments were ignorant and were based on stupid stereotypes. Like I said knock yourself out. It seems to me that you're just playing naive at this point.

[noiretextatique]

201. listen to the man's words

he spelled out as clear as a bell.

"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

206. And by "complexion" he meant "behavior".

:rofl:

[noiretextatique]

208. right

i don't know why some people make excuses for this shit. it's not like we don't know it goes on...all the time.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

209. Nah you see people like you and I are wrong because

"we don't know what goes down in da' hood". :evilgrin:

[noiretextatique]

210. lol...well, that's true enough

but i grew up in compton, and i know thing haven't changed much since i was there in the 70's.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

211. I grew up in Rio Piedras PR next to the projects so I would probably know as little as you.

;)

[No Elephants]

184. Racism has a basis in the article. You made up stuff that was not in the article.

If the club president had a legal, non-racist reason for ejecting the kids, the great likelihood is that he would have stated it, instead of simply denying racism, without further explanation. Others went where the article led them; you went where your own negative reaction to, and unwarranted generalizations about, minority kids led you.

[No Elephants]

181. Sorry, but you set off alarm bells with quite a few posters. Maybe some self-examination

on your part is in order.

"When one person calls you an ass, get offended.
When two people call you an ass, get a saddle."

ancient proverb.

[RamboLiberal]

212. LOL - Damn I just have to write that one down

So true!

[No Elephants]

246. Yep, when everyone but you says you sound racist (or whatever), maybe it's time to

stop the lame, knee jerk defenses and look inward instead. Odds that you see the wonderfulness of yourself while all around you are seeing something else are just not in your favor.

Enjoy using the proverb.

[CreekDog]

74. you realize that most racists learned 40 years ago that you can't post a sign forbidding access

based on race.

so if you think you are going to find an explicit policy excluding membership based on race in order to prove this --you are being foolish as well as obstinate.

[liberalhistorian]

92. So, what WOULD be enough? For them to have come out

with their hoods on holding a flaming cross over the pool intoning their gibberish? Sheesh.

I live in SD, which is, for the most part, very overtly racist against native americans and often damn proud of it. It's very easy to recognize your "doublespeak", believe me.

[MercutioATC]

125. What would be enough for you to consider the alternative explanation?

You're suggesting that I would have to see the club members burning crosses before I believed that this was a racial issue. That's equivalent to saying that you would have to see an all-black club to allow for an alternative explanation. Neither statement is true (at least, not in my case).

The president may very well have been lying, but he DID state that race had no bearing on the decision. I'm not taking his word as the truth, but I do believe that an plausible alternative motivation does exist.

I'm not denying that racism was the motivation behind the decision, but without more information than provided in the linked articles, I'm not prepared to label the president a racist.

[No Elephants]

183. You reject a second hand account of a racist comment, but have no problem making up stuff from whole

cloth about allegedly noisy dark kids to give this club cover. Interesting.

[MNDemNY]

60. I'll take that bet. Pony Up.

[Swagman]

71. isn't that a kid's job ?..to be boisterous and noisy..?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

88. I bet they were yelling "Give me some more iced tea mother fuckers"

Bill, is that you?

[No Elephants]

186. And we have a winnah!

[ieoeja]

104. I will back up MercutioATC on this.

Disclaimer: the following contains lots of generalities which do not apply to all the people or places to which it refers. But speaking in generalities saves a lot of typing.


I'm a white guy who gets nervous as heck every time I have to venture into the 'burbs.

But obviously the problems I experience in the suburbs are not racially motivated. I am, as MercutioATC says, too boisterous. I frequently have the cops called on me when I am outside the city! Never arrested because I haven't done anything actionable. But my loudness scares the living shit out of many suburbanites. And that's when I am trying like heck to mind my Ps & Qs.

Odd thing is, I am farm raised. But then I personify Charlie Daniels' The South's Gonna Do It Again ("it" isn't what people hearing the title think it is).

Actually, it isn't all that weird that I get along better in the city than the suburbs. Farms are poor, dirty and the nearest cop is twenty miles away. Cities are poor, dirty and loud. Suburbs tend to be wealthy, clean and restrictive. Also, there is a lot of xenophobia in the suburbs. While in the city, a hillbilly -- my accent is long faded; but when it was there when I tried living in the 'burbs -- is just one more ethnic group.

And as one that almost speaks English, more welcome than most!

Finally, I simply have more in common with urban African-Americans than with suburbanite Anglos. Much more so with an older Black generation that is rapidly dying off now. Like me, that older generation was farm-raised.

[panader0]

106. Like what? Laughing and splashing and having fun?

It's a pool in the summer, that's whay you're supposed to do.

[BlooInBloo]

144. Thank you for your devotion to White People's defense #7...

"As long as another explanation is theoretically possible, it isn't racism."

[MercutioATC]

152. Better that we accuse people of racism without real proof?

"Racist" is a pretty strong label in my book. It rates right up there with "pedophile" or "rapist".

It's not apologist to require proof before making the accusation.

[No Elephants]

188. That's not what you did.

[Xithras]

148. Possible. I was tossed from my dads club once for the same thing, but I doubt it here.

The remark about changing the "complexion of the pool" cast that into doubt, and the comment by the attendant was the cincher.

That said, many private clubs DO prohibit boisterous behavior in pools. My dad was a member of a local sports and swimming club, and took me when I was eight or nine. I immediately started doing cannonballs off the diving board and splashing around, and was asked to leave the pool within 10 minutes. My dad was asked to not bring me back until I was "mature enough to swim properly". It was the sort of place where most people just swam laps, where NOBODY shouted, and where you ONLY used the STAIRS to enter and exit the pool. Very quiet, very formal, with lots of disapproving old people waiting for you to do something annoying so they could throw you out.

[No Elephants]

191. And, if that had happened, it's very likely the club president would have fallen over himself so

specifying.

Disrputive behavior is a legitimate, legal and non-hateful reason to ban people of any color. Yet, he made no mention of anything like that.

[Taverner]

167. Jeezus fuckin' CHRIST!

Pardon my French..er, well fuck that - DEAL WITH IT

More boisterous????

How much time have you spent with "urban" kids?

Let me say kids are boisterous - by nature. Rich, poor, purple, green - doesn't matter

[No Elephants]

172. So, your bet is that the reason was excessive noise, but the club President

did not mention that? And the reason why he would not mention that is what--that he prefers to semem like a bigot rather than a person who objects to excessive noise? And why would that be? Throwing people out because of excessive noise is not against the law. Throwing people out because of skin color is against the law.

And why do you feel motivated to conjure up excuses when he didn't?

[Prometheus Bound]

182. Well I watched the two interviews with the kids. Your "bet" is ....

One of the kids used the word 'ignorant'. She was being tactful.

[TerribleLarryDingle]

24. [email protected]

[email protected]

[Twinguard]

28. I guess I'm a racist-ist

I wouldn't want to share a pool with people this ugly. I'm not talking about the minorities, I have no problem with them. I wouldn't want to share a pool, or let my kids swim with people who think this blatant racism is acceptable.

Oh, and some of the comments made about the articles are nothing short of disgusting. I can't believe that in 2009 people still think this way.

[TerribleLarryDingle]

34. No just decent.

[Stuckinthebush]

32. I want to point out the non-Southern location

As a life-long Southerner and a progressive, I tire of hearing about the racist south. Indeed we have many racists down here, but folks, there are racists in abundance everywhere.

[TerribleLarryDingle]

38. Being a southerner

The most vocal racist people I have met here are from up north.

[MNDemNY]

56. Like my in-laws from SW Va...".Our negroes are happy, we're good to them".?

[No Elephants]

196. You may be right. Southerners may be quieter about it. At least when not hooded.

What do you expect when you post regional flame bait?

[mikeytherat]

47. When I moved to the South, I was not taken aback by the racism I experienced, 'cuz I'm from Michigan

and the Michigan racism I saw made the boys down South look like pikers.

mikey_the_rat

[redqueen]

49. Thank you! (nt)

[raccoon]

65. Thank you. nt

[liberalhistorian]

96. Oh, believe me, I hear ya. I'm originally from NE OH, which

was, and, unfortunately often still is, not shy at all regarding their racist views. Matter of fact, make that Ohio in general, particularly the central and southern part of the state, where my mom's from.

[DebbieCDC]

197. I'm originally from SE Ohio -- that is the truth

[BlooInBloo]

147. Yep - it's away from Racist Headquarters.

[Dappleganger]

164. Yes, thanks.

Not that it's any excuse.

[madrchsod]

35. law- suit- time......

this will cost the club a shit load of money....

[Wizard777]

81. Nope! As a private club. They have freedom of association.

They cannot be compelled to accept members. They cannot be punished for denying membership. Discrimination by private clubs is perfectly legal.

[Occulus]

139. You sound.... almost *happy* about that. n/t

[Wizard777]

199. Yes and no. Freedom of association played a big role in the civil rights movement.

Sure there is a down side to it. Just like everything else in life. You gotta take the good with the bad. You can work to reduce the bad. But no man or no group men will ever elminate evil from this world. In fact that is usually how thing we call "atrocities" begin. A person or group of people takes it upon themselves to eliminate evil from the world. For more proof of this just see: World History.

[mbperrin]

149. They already accepted them as members. Took their money. Read the article.

NOW it's fraud by deception, perhaps fiduciary mis- non- or malfeasance, failure to perform due diligence, ex-post facto rules change for money, fraud by non-delivery; nonconveyance; nonperformance of a contractual obligation; and a fraudulent attempt to unilaterally cancel an active contract.

I'm sure a decent attorney could find many more. Out of court settlement? Perhaps, and in order to make the clients whole, it would have to be sufficient to build an equivalent facility for the enjoyment of the wronged with no more out of pocket expense than they would incur using the existing facility. Our local school just finished a nice Olympic type pool for a little less than $6 million. Of course, their land acquisition may be more costly than the prairie out here in west Texas. I would also expect some financial remuneration for the delay of contractually-obligated satisfaction for each individual who is NOT enjoying their entitled membership functions because of the meddling of management, and their incompetence to deliver contracted services at the time and place already paid for.

They could probably get out from under for $7-8 million, plus attorney's fees, of course. These are just net figures to the plaintiffs. Now let's talk about compensatory damages for mental anguish, denial of fraternity, and other past damages. Couple of million here. With the customary 40% for attorneys, I'm sure this could be settled amicably for around $19-20 million total.

Could take possession of the assets if they don't have the cash, with a note for the balance.

Then suits against individual members of the management/board for their own actions.

Yes, it could be quite a feast! What's the price of being a chucklehead? Hope these racist assholes are about to find out.

[Dappleganger]

165. They can be compelled to treat people equally, however.

They're not a religious organization, the group paid the fee like everybody else.
I think they have a good case.

[Wizard777]

214. No, not in a private capacity. Freedom of association goes far beyond religion.

Even though it is usually cited in that context. Religion is just a gathering of people with commonly held beliefs. So are Political gatherings. Cultural and even ethnic gatherings. All are gathering of people with commonly held beliefs. Freedom of association applies to all of those gatherings. Even ones held by bigots.

A few years ago here in Maryland we had an exclusively white country club change their policy to allow for black members. The reason they did that was because the couldn't join the PGA until they did. But they were a private club and there was nothing anyone could do to force them to admit blacks. As for any real damages. They were made whole again when their membership fee was refunded.

[madrchsod]

213. contract law...unless they can prove those kids violated the rules...

they`re screwed

[Wizard777]

215. Not if they are a private club. One of the rules can be you can't be black.

But only if they are a private club. Otherwise I agree, they are screwed.

[mbperrin]

219. What part of they are already club members can you not understand?

They were admitted. They paid. Now they are being denied their membership benefits.

It's like giving the car dealer the money. When you show up, they say, sorry, you can't have the car.

Simple refund is not going to solve it. Must need better lawyers in that part of the world.

[Wizard777]

222. Their membership fee has been refunded. End of membership.

You seem to be under the impression that you can force a private club to accept members. That is simply not true. As a private club they can absolutely walk into court and say, they defrauded us. They did not tell us that would be using their membership to bring black kids to our whites only private pool. You also can't force the NAACP to have a white President or CEO. They are far more of a public entity than that private pool.

[mbperrin]

225. They had already been accepted. There was no fraud. There is no rule

against black members in the organization.

Nobody forced them to do anything. They entered a contract, composed of the usual offer and acceptance. They offered to let them swim for $1900. That was paid. Offer accepted. There are no places on the application to mark race, so that's not a factor.

You can't just unilaterally abrogate a contract. If I could, I'd just tell the electric company, "No thanks, you're charging too much. See ya."

And not that it matters, but the NAACP does have white members, including at least one president of a chapter.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/2/26/3575/34550

NAACP'S WHITE FEMALE PRESIDENT SPEAKS IN HAMMOND
by goplies, Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 03:57:05 AM EST

NAACP'S WHITE FEMALE PRESIDENT SPEAKS IN HAMMOND

"Poverty politics and the war in Iraq"

Saturday, February 25, 2006

HAMMOND, LA Covington attorney Annie Spell is the only white, female NAACP chapter president in the United States. On Saturday evening, she was among the speakers to address the Greater Tangipahoa NAACP's Freedom Fund Banquet on the SLU campus. She pulled no punches.

In a drum beat of criticism against the Bush administration, Spell called the government to task on such hot-button issues as "illegal" wiretaps, Katrina relief, the occupation of Iraq, inadequate public education, and what she called "poverty politics" in Louisiana and across America. "Today, we suffer from poverty politics and an unchecked totalitarian administration. African Americans, in particular, suffer from voter disenfranchisement, limited access to polling places, and outdated technologies." She pledged that she would "Speak truth to power" and encouraged the audience to join her by actively participating in the NAACP.


Spell is no stranger to controversy. With her husband and law partner, felony defense lawyer Buddy Spell, she spent most of last August in a tent camped out in a ditch in Crawford, Texas with her seven year old daughter and her cat while her husband represented antiwar activist and Gold Star Mother, Cindy Sheehan. Prior to what she refers to as the "Crawford Uprising," the Spells organized the 1996 counter-inaugural demonstration in New Orleans, "Jazz Funeral for Democracy," before traveling to Harlem, Montgomery, and Biloxi to assist other antiwar organizers with their own actions. Following the storm, she organized the disbursement of NAACP funding to Katrina survivors in her home town.

[Wizard777]

234. There is also no real official statement of why the contract was rescinded.

There were some things over heard. You also don't know what the contact entails. You also don't know what the club charter entails. There is a third party. The membership. It could be something as stupid as they didn't put the rental agreement to a vote of the membership. Therefore the club officers did not have the legal authority to enter into that contract. Until you have all the details. You can assume eternally.

I'm aware that the NAACP admits white people. I used to be a member. But that or the white womans election as president didn't come from law suites. Even though they will sue because corporations are too white or not dark enough in some places in their infrastructure. They're not about policing their own. That's why I'm nolonger a member. The best and most effective change always comes voluntarily from within. Anything else is a siege for all intents and purposes.

Btw, as soon as I can find a wind and or solar energy system that will provide for all my energy needs. You damned straight I can and will tell BG&E to tale a flying leap. They're not getting another penny from me. Not a damned thing they can do about it. Just like when my lights go out. They are in material breach of the contract. Not a damned thing I can do about it.

[mbperrin]

237. You gave the NAACP as an example. I just wanted to clear up the record.

Best and most effective change comes from within, you say. Well, that eliminates the need for rule of law.

Unfortunately, as a teacher for 3 decades, I've seen plenty of change come from teaching, rather than from within. In fact, left completely on their own, most people are poorly socialized.

Your electric company is not in breach. Wade through the bajillions of paragraphs in the contract and you'll find force majeur. Their lawyers are that good.

And on a closing note, since you now contend that nothing is known and nothing can be known about the policies, charters, or actions of the club, then none of your defenses apply nor anything else. That's a conversation killer.

See ya around.

[Wizard777]

239. I'm not saying nothing can be known. I'm just saying we don't have all the details.

I think all the ifin that can be done has been done. Now it times to get down to the nitty gritty of the facts. More details are emerging. The club has said that they fundamentally changed the atmosphere. It has nothing to so with racism. It's possible. Maybe the camp will come forward with the contract. If there is one. There has also been a lot of parsing of words on threads about this. Membership vs. rental arguments. The camp spokesperson is using the term "Membership." If it was a rental instead of membership. The other kids should not have been there. Rentals are usually exclusive access agreement. There is plenty to discuss. At this point I just prefer to confine the discussion to the facts. If you want to engage in hysterical self righteous ifins. Yeah that's a conversation killer.

[grace0418]

36. "The Pool is Filled... with Racists!" You can tell the place has no class by the website.

Seriously, what kind of exclusive, members-only club has a website that looks like it was designed by a used car sales man with too much time on his hands and a love of script type. That site burned my retinas. What a train wreck.

[mikeytherat]

50. I call that type of site "Fisher-Price: My First Website"

mikey_the_rat

[grace0418]

55. LOL! Yep. Having a computer and some design programs doesn't make you any more of

a designer than having legwarmers and ballet slippers will make you a dancer.

[Brother Buzz]

39. Dimes to donuts says that pool will be drained....

during the forthcoming lawsuits. Bank on it.

[BumRushDaShow]

58. Note too

that one of the reasons why they probably opted to pay to use a private pool was because a number of city pools have been closed due to the city budget crises (http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/state/pennsylvania/20090708_ap_donationskeepcitypoolsopenduringhardtimes.html">where the city is soliciting "donations" to at least keep a few pools open). But that http://whyy.org/blogs/itsourcity/2009/03/03/major-donor-gives-much-needed-boost-to-swimming-pool-fund/">is only covering about half.

Sadly, this is happening across the U.S. in the urban areas. A fire hydrant can sometimes suffice but that shouldn't have to be. :cry:

[CreekDog]

80. I went to the Vare Pool in South Philadelphia as a kid, until it was closed too often due to cuts

And my grandmother paid dearly from her sweatshop income to get me and my friend a summer membership at the Packer Park pool (private) so we could at least swim in the summer heat. All the other kids who couldn't afford that option were SOL.

And Vare pool, for what it's worth, was much more diverse than the private Packer Park.

[BumRushDaShow]

90. We used to go to Awbury

in E. Mt. Airy (when not at camp), and it was pretty mixed. Them were the days! :evilgrin:

It's really sad how every year, the city always threatens to close pools and libraries and meanwhile due to lack of money yet the wealthy continue to get 10-year property tax abatements for new construction (mostly high-end including in-ground pools in the back).... And sadly, there's little or no low and moderate-income housing being built to give the little people some relief, so they get screwed both ways - no public pool nor pool at home. :banghead:

[OwnedByFerrets]

61. BUT, if you were to actually believe the idiots on the reich...

race is a dead issue in America. Bullshit.

[msanthrope]

70. Not surprising--this is why the Barnes is moving from MontCo

to Philadelphia.

The neighbors of the Barnes Foundation didn't like all the 'hordes' of black children visiting the Barnes. For free. Complained about the noise and traffic from the school/arboretum/museum they moved next to....

So they took the Barnes to court, forced them to live under a quota and limited access system--and then had the NERVE to complain when the Barnes said it was moving...(the Barnes was only open to the public 2 days a week anyway--then the neighborhood forced a quota on top of that. And they didn't want the schoolchildren visiting during the week. You had to reserve at leaset 6 months in advance.)

Well, those racist bastards lost that case, and thanks to them, I get to have ANOTHER fabulous museum within walking distance.

[MNDemNY]

75. I sure hope that nobody who...

lives near this pool, does any thing like putting about 2 gallons of dishsoap int the pool, some night. That would take days to weeks to clear out of the system.I hope no one does such a thing, 'cause that would be wrong.

[Brother Buzz]

94. This ex-pool dude knows of a safe agent that knocks down soap suds in about ten minutes

Pool supply house have the fast acting stuff, but vinegar or Epsom salts will work, just not as fast.

Oh, fountains make the real cool suds, pools are never as dramatic. :shrug:

[MNDemNY]

98. But, if as I suspect, this pool has sand filters, well you know.

And the cheaper the soap, the better.

[Brother Buzz]

102. A dirty, loaded sand filter works better that a clean one

Counter intuitive, but true. :shrug:

[MNDemNY]

105. The surfactants in soap...

break up the "scum layer" (all the body oils, lotions, etc)causing it to get deep "into" the sand, turning it almost as hard as concrete. Use cheap dollar store soap, NOT dawn or other more modern detergents.

[Brother Buzz]

115. OK, you have a good vandal gene. I had decent one untill they throughly knocked it out of me....

when I was about ten. ;)

[MNDemNY]

117. Oh no !, Like I said, it would be wrong.

[Brother Buzz]

121. A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat!

;)

[Occulus]

145. It would be just as wrong to dump a couple gallons of liquid nitrogen into it

Pretty dramatic effect, too.

Take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2mj-Sq2oeo

[Ian David]

143. I imagine that silica gel would be worse, but much more expensive.

[HillWilliam]

78. Those damned southerners!

Oh wait...

[No Elephants]

193. Please see Reply # 192.

[msanthrope]

82. Duesler, the president, is a public speaker--interesting bio--

"Long interested in the preservation of communities and the middle-class, Dr. Duesler sits on numerous Boards related to community issues. He has launched FreeTradeFreeFall.com to get in ahead of the issues that the formation of a North American Union would emerge.


His speaking style is entertaining and informative, and he will surely provoke many questions and concerns with the topics in which he has now gained expertise."

Much more at link...

http://freetradefreefall.com/10431.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*


His wife is a pediatrician, bet her practice is lily-white.

[Liquorice]

100. I was looking him up and found that he was a strong supporter

of Obama in Philadelphia. He's the team co-leader of this:

http://www.opositiveprogram.org/

I don't believe he and his wife are racists.

[msanthrope]

122. Obama supporter or not, what he's done is wrong.

And wifey is the treasurer of the Club--so don't tell me she doesn't know what's going on.

[billyoc]

85. Emminet Domain, padlock it NOW.

Reopen it as a public pool.

[kentauros]

114. There ya go.

I'd like to see eminent domain used for more things, like ending patent-squatting.

[Lucky Luciano]

97. I have often wondered if this is racist or classist - a bit of both.

I can imagine that the white parents would be less offended if the black kids had parents that were corporate lawyers - either way, it is clearly a disgrace.

[whathehell]

124. I know this area...Trust me, there's very few professionals there of any color.

[Karenina]

160. NOT. 50 years ago

My parents were multi-degreed professionals. For play dates, I crouched on the car's backseat floor with a blanket thrown over me to pass the guard houses of gated communities...

[Lucky Luciano]

221. 50 years ago is not applicable to today (I hope - still trying to be optimistic)

[Karenina]

227. Really?

Those who forget history and all that jazz... ;-)

[Lucky Luciano]

229. Well - just saying that your comparing apples and oranges..

Again - (I hope!!) it is a comparison of apples and oranges - I doubt you would be forced into the same mistreatment today under the same circumstances. I am really really hoping this pool incident was isolated.

[Karenina]

230. The mindset that fuels it is not.

Same as it ever was... It's "isolated" insofar as these days most are not so blatant.

[Lucky Luciano]

238. I see...well, I guess you would know better than I.

:hug:

[Blue_Tires]

107. unbelievable

that pool just slit its own economic throat...

[peace13]

112. Aren't these the folk that Obama referred to as 'clinging to their guns?"

I think he was right on the money.

[hugo_from_TN]

126. Reminds me of the scene from Caddyshack

when the caddies get free use of the club pool for the afternoon.

[JBoy]

207. Someone needs to shit in their pool. And not a candybar shit.

[Arkana]

128. When I saw the title, I thought "Well, if there was a group of

kids who were going to try and pee in the pool to the extent that the water turns green, I'd kick 'em out too."

Then I read the article and was appropriately disgusted. Why are country clubs some of the biggest bastions of racism in the country?

[mamaleah]

129. Gee, I thought racism only existed in the South?

Or is that just what self-important Northerners wish?

[No Elephants]

192. Who said racism exists only in South? Flame much?

[mamaleah]

194. Oh come now.

You know there is a distinct anti-South bias. Some people do think the south is full of racists and the north the only bastion of true "enlightened" peoples.

I am not from the south, but hearing southerners referred to as racist rednecks gets old really fast.

[Odin2005]

131. WTF!?! How can BS like this happen in 2009?

:wtf:

[Cha]

138. This is sick but I know who the real

fuckin' losers are.

[intheflow]

141. I smell a lawsuit.

And maybe some kind of revocation of license to operate/loss of funding/municipal fines. I can dream of justice, right?

[christx30]

159. At last we get some good news here on DU

some inner city minority kids are going to own a nice pool once the lawsuit is over.
The pool people messed up big time. And they are going to pay for it.

[Taverner]

168. My guess is we are watching an internal power struggle play out

At the Club - there are some folks who are racist, and some folks that had no idea their fellow members were racist.

The person who booked the camp was of the 'non-racist' group

The folks who were on duty were of the 'racist' group

[BumRushDaShow]

169. Hartmann just mentioned the story on his show

It's moving nationally... Thank you Thom! :applause:

[MellowDem]

187. I don't get this....

Why would the club first of all accept the money and invite these kids to the pool if they hate blacks or poor people?

And why would a guy who supposedly helped raise money for Obama be so overtly racist?

[hayu_lol]

195. Please follow on this and keep us informed...

it is important, particularly to the kids who were thrown out.

[RamboLiberal]

203. Probably didn't know this was an inner-city day care n/t

[MellowDem]

204. Guess so...

They sounded so surprised from the article.

[RamboLiberal]

205. Swim club accused of discrimination sics cops on media

A swimming club in suburban Philadelphia called the police on a Fox television crew attempting to report on allegations the club had rejected inner-city children because of the color of their skin.

-----

When Fox’s Philadelphia affiliate showed up at the club, “we were ordered off, we were told it’s a private club and we’re not welcome,” Fox reporter Claudia Gomez said.

-----

One day-care attendee told the NBC affiliate in Philadelphia that he had overheard parents at the club complaining about the new children’s race.

“I heard this lady, she was like, ‘Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?’ She’s like, ‘I’m scared they might do something to my child,’” said camper Dymire Baylor.

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/08/philadelphia-swim-club-accused-of-discrimination/

[Wednesdays]

220. Wow, when they're in a hole they think the solution is to keep on digging

What morans.

[JayMusgrove]

224. Thanks for the very interesting investigation of this... but.. .is it just me

or did the links to the great white Doctor disappear already?

I can't get them to load.

[norahsangel]

241. Going Going Gone

All websites relating to the Club and info on the pathetic "Doctor of Doom" have magically vanished. I would love to see a statement from his pediatrician wife on how this very negative experience may affect those children short and long term. hmmmmmm :o

[Birdiesmom]

226. Those poor kids ... hope they didn't catch "cracker cooties."

:evilgrin:

[tammywammy]

233. LOL! n/t

[Prometheus Bound]

232. Their websites's been replaced with an explanation.

The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism which are completely untrue.

We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps. All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future.

Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board.
http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html

[nc4bo]

236. So who was the dumbass who didn't know how to count to 65

then divide by the number lifeguards?

So the 65 kids arrive and suddenly they realize that there are 65 kids? Riiiiiiiiight.

Sorry, I call bullshit.

[Rainbowreflect]

235. When I first read this I wanted to...

:puke:

I cannot believe anyone would treat children this way. I breaks my heart.

[norahsangel]

240. The kids faces in this youtube interview

says it all. You can read every emotion. :( They are hurt to the core, confused and really sad. All they did was trust the "adults" with their little respite during the summer-only three days a week for one hour+ a day - to August? Some of those children may never get over this. It is nauseating that upper class twits could actually get away with doing this to trusting children anticipating a positive social interaction, a new experience, and possible new friends. The local "members" and the person "in charge" turned this into something unforgettably ugly, as are they inside with their mirror images. Horrible excuses for human beings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok-XsH8gLdI&feature=related

[nc4bo]

243. Deniers of racism need to look at this video and hear what these little kids are saying

they overheard from the parents.

These kids aren't lying. Those racist, uppity mofos got their panties in a bunch because a bunch of lowlife ghetto trash dared to swim in their whitey pool and they raised holy hell to the owner or manager.

I feel sorry for these kids.

ETA: CYA in full swing. They've stopped all other day care centers from using the pool too.

[NYDem Observer]

242. Top Story on CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/09/philly.pool/index.html

Glad this story is making the rounds. This country club deserves whatever shitstorm is coming to them.

[boppers]

244. Kicking for the sheer WTF.

Love the girl's simple statement in this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok-XsH8gLdI&feature=related

"That's just ignorant".