GM, Chrysler retirees race clock to get dental, eye care- Benefits to end July 1; part of UAW giveba

[Bozita]

Source: Detroit News

Saturday, June 20, 2009
GM, Chrysler retirees race clock to get dental, eye care
Benefits to end July 1; part of UAW givebacks
Christina Rogers / The Detroit News


General Motors Corp. and Chrysler Group LLC retirees are flocking to Metro Detroit optometrists and dental offices for eye exams and teeth cleanings before those longtime benefits vanish July 1.

The benefit cuts are among broader changes approved by the United Auto Workers in May as GM and Chrysler sought to restructure before filing for bankruptcy protection. The concessions were part of an amendment to the UAW's 2007 agreement with the automakers establishing a union-run health trust fund for retirees, also known as the Voluntary Employees' Beneficiary Association or VEBA.

The cuts affect nearly 350,000 unionized GM and Chrysler retirees and will mean painful changes for those used to rich benefits and fewer out-of-pocket medical costs.

Along with losing dental and vision benefits, retirees will shoulder higher copayments for emergency room visits and prescription drugs. Catastrophic plans will no longer be offered to retirees or their surviving spouses. And retirees will lose some drug coverage, including benefits for erectile dysfunction medication.

Read more: http://www.detnews.com/article/20090620/AUTO01/906200363/GM--Chrysler-retirees-race-clock-to-get-dental--eye-care

[Kaleva]

1. No more boner pills

[inna]

2. that's just obscenely wrong. nt

[pattmarty]

3. So, in layman's terms, they got FUCKED!!!!

[Frisbee]

4. That pretty much sums it up...

They honored their end of a contract for 35 years or so, but now the other side of that agreement can say thanks for all you did for us, now go fuck yourself. One more reason why we really do need a national health care system for everyone.

[Psephos]

8. The other side?

The UAW is now the other side. They are now the single largest nongovernment owner.

Anyone who owned stock before lost all their money. Nada. Zip.

Anyone who loaned the company money before lost most of it.

Meanwhile, taxpayers have given tens of billions of dollars to the companies so that they wouldn't close, yet UAW workers will not have to take any pay cuts. Must be nice to be part of a protected class - I can name you about a million people here in Michigan alone who have taken a 100% pay cut.

Looks like the old tropes don't apply any more.

PS don't forget to tip your hat to all those people (many on this board) who shunned the UAW-made cars as if they were contaminated with plague, and made sure to lambaste them whenever they had a chance so that others wouldn't consider buying them either.

[edc]

12. The problem

never was labor. It was always management. Americans can build cars as good as anyone, but management chose not to. That's it. Now labor is getting screwed. Rest assured that if GM stock ever becomes worth anything again, the moneyed class will steal it back from the UAW faster than they dumped it on them.

[Psephos]

13. How is labor getting screwed? No pay cut, taking ownership, free $$ from Uncle Sam to save cos.

If that's getting screwed, I'm going to drop my pants right now.

I wouldn't worry too much about that stock being worth much in the future, btw.

[mbperrin]

16. 250,000 jobs to be lost in bankruptcy deal. Not a problem?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/quarter-million-jobs-could-be-lost-in-bankruptcy

If all goes according to plan, the bankruptcies of GM (GMGMQ 1.30, +0.06, +4.42%) and Chrysler, which went bankrupt in late April, could cost about a quarter million people their jobs over the next year and a half...

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/news/stories/2009/05/30/gm0530.html

UAW leaders agreed to the revised contract last week. It freezes wages, ends bonuses, eliminates noncompetitive work rules and ends the possibility of a strike until the next contract expires in 2015. The UAW said the cuts would save GM $1.2 billion to $1.3 billion a year.

That's more than a billion dollars worth of cuts a year for the next six years.

So: 250,000 jobs going and 7-8 billion dollars worth of money givebacks from those still employed.

Happier now?

[Psephos]

20. Twist that any further and it will snap

Let's use the figures you supplied. 250,000 jobs gone due to a permanently down-sized demand forecast versus everyone in the companies and their suppliers loses their jobs...all of them.

(Six major suppliers have gone bankrupt in Michigan just this Spring, by the way).

You have a problem with eliminating noncompetitive work rules? I worked in Lansing Fisher Body back in the day so I could eventually pay cash for school instead of put it on the government loan tab. I saw what those rules entail with my own eyeballs, and even worse, what kind of shitty attitudes they engender. You have a union card mbperrin? You ever hang tires on a line during the dog days of summer? You got any skin in this game?

You have a problem with freezing wages at a large margin above the average US manufacturing wage? That must rankle all the other manufacturing workers whose taxes are being used to guarantee that their "brethren" make way more than them.

Why on God's green Earth would the union want to strike against itself, anyway, given that they now own the largest nongovernment stake in the company?

Save GM $1.3 billion a year? Big Fucking Deal. That's about 30 years worth of the free cash the company has been simply handed by Uncle Sam THIS YEAR.

So are you a loyal GM customer, mbperrin? A stockholder? Have a UAW card with your name on it? All three for me. How many for you? And please, be specific.

The UAW got by far the best deal at this table by a bigger consensus even than supports AGW. In flush times that would be great. But these aren't flush times, and when one person at the table grabs a bigger slice of pie, the others are left with a smaller one.

Happier now?

[mbperrin]

21. Well, let's see. I belong to the American Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO,

I've got a Chevy truck and a Chevy Impala in the driveway.

I worked construction from the time I was 14 until I turned 46, when I began teaching economics at the high school level.

I have never owned a dime of stock nor any other artificial or shadow investment in my life, and I teach my students the same. Own things you can touch and feel, like rental properties, of which my wife and I own a few dozen, none ever financed by banks, all currently rented, and which receive very favorable tax treatment.

Hope I "qualify" to answer.

I just cannot understand why, when trillions have been spent to ensure that the "money masters of the universe", the hogs, manipulators, and con men who run the banks and other financial "services" rackets will comfortably continue making their undeserved millions each, why you wish for working people to suffer more than they are, to argue that hundreds of thousands of jobs lost, billions of dollars given back, no raises of any kind for six years, gutting the health plans, is just not enough suffering for them.

The car companies are in trouble because buyers have no money, thanks to the money hogs previously mentioned. If it were an auto problem there would be some companies doing well, others not so well, but that's not the case: they're all doing poorly, because the shadow economy that piss poor government "regulators" allowed to flourish, has robbed them and everyone else who actually makes wages doing something real.

One final comment on "skin in the game." Ever had your tonsils out? If not, your appendix, maybe your wisdom teeth? Any little body part removed at all? Here's the deal. You were there for the whole procedure. No one can argue you didn't have a real stake in the procedure - it's your body part. And yet, are you now qualified to perform the same procedure on others? Nope. Works out that the training needed to be the remover does not resemble the experience of the removee, and in no way qualifies the removee to make recommendations on future procedures, much less to recommend them.

"Been there, done that," is not quite the same as "studied that, done that." Yeah?

[WriteDown]

31. The life of a slumlord is always good......

:evilgrin:

[Romulox]

50. Barack Obama broke the UAW while defending Wall Street. Simple.

Remember the "sanctity of contract"? Doesn't apply to the UAW, only banksters. :hi:

[Blue Diadem]

51. Obama didn't break the UAW, it took years of downsizing and plant closings

and off shoring and quite frankly the Big 3 part of the UAW not sticking up and fighting for their UAW suppliers. There used to be strength in numbers but considering the UAW membership has declined from 1.5 million in 1979 to the low 400,000's in 2008, how can Obama possibly be responsible for breaking the UAW. They broke when they failed the suppliers. They'll never regain that membership nor strength.

My husband worked for 25 yrs for a supplier that closed 11 years ago. The UAW didn't even negotiate a severance for them.

[DainBramaged]

55. I guess you never broke your ass on an auto assembly line

for 20+ years in sauna-like heat and Arctic cold with injuries until your hands stopped working or you no longer could walk without extreme pain in your hips.


It amazes me how some so-called 'progressives' on this board begrudge auto workers any crumb they got.

And reading what you wrote, I doubt you did anything but sweep the floor at Fisher. Fisher was dissolved in 1984. I got skin in this game and my name on a UAW card still. And we got the shit end of the stick.

[Yupster]

25. That's what happens when your company goes bankrupt

Usually everyone loses their jobs and the oors close and the auctioneer starts chanting.

In this case the President interceded and got the union a much better deal than tradition or even the law would seem to allow. It's working though, and the unions should be very thankfull to the President who really went to bat for them.

[Romulox]

33. Except if you're a big bank or insurance company, you mean, right? They got taxpayer $ as "bonuses"

Keep on telling us who the President "went to bat for"! :hi:

[Yupster]

54. I agree

Goldman Sachs and AIG and Citibank and maybe BAC all should have gone down the tubes too.

They bet too heavily and they lost. Their failures would be lessons to other companies. The bailouts teach exactly the wrong lessons.

If those companies went bankrupt the law should have been followed for disposing of their assets though.

[Joe Bacon]

11. Just like steelworkers in western PA 20 years ago

20 years ago, steelworkers who lost their jobs had their health benefits terminated too. Nobody cared one bit about how they got screwed over. All I can say to these folks is welcome to the club.

[cyclezealot]

14. Nobody cared. Says whom

We are all pretty powerless. For those who care; we've been working on single payer so such sh*t will not be a part of all our futures.. The problem is . We all rarely pay attention to the plight of blue collar workers since we accept them as being expendable.

[Joe Bacon]

22. I still remember the Whore Press going after ex-millworkers

Telling them to get off their ass and go back to school. Plenty of them tried that and wound up with jobs that payed far lower wages...

[cyclezealot]

24. Of course.

We're all supposed to become burger flippers according to Wall Street. After all, Bush considered Burger flipping an industrial job.. .Let's seperate union workers and people in general from many newspapers and communication networks.. Our media is big business and hopefully does not reflect the American people.

[Romulox]

35. More anti-Labor tripe from a "progressive" poster. nt

[sarcasmo]

15. I feel for my Dad, 37 years and retired this year, only to get FUCKED.

[CountAllVotes]

5. this really does suck

and it also sets a horrific precedent for other retirees everywhere (yes everywhere!!!) in the USA!!

I hope the Union can fight this in some way! It is not fair nor is it right! :mad: for GM retirees!!

:dem: :kick:

[tritsofme]

9. These GM and Chrysler retirees are joining retirees everywhere.

Most retirees receive no dental or vision benefit from their former employer.

[CountAllVotes]

18. so what!

does what other people get or don't get or used to get even matter?

These people worked their whole lives for what benefits they were promised to receive.

I find it sickening!

Perhaps the ambivalence I see explains why.

:dem:

[LisaM]

39. Plus the UAW is receiving benefits EVERYONE should get

instead of pissing about how they get "too much", why not realize that everyone else is lagging behind? Is it too much to ask that parents don't have to decide whether their kid gets to go to the eye doctor or the dentist that month? Plus, the UAW kept wages up even for non-union jobs in the automobile sector. Republicans have been drooling for years at the thought of breaking the UAW. They got their way, or are starting to at least.

[Iris]

32. right. But did they spend their entire working lives negotiating for those benefits?

[Romulox]

34. Disgusting post. One wonders why anti-working people posts are allowed here.

[totodeinhere]

37. How was that an "anti working people post?"

The poster didn't say that it's a good thing that other retirees don't get those same medical benefits. He was merely pointing out the fact that most retirees have never enjoyed the benefits that auto workers got.

IMO, all retirees should get those benefits. Why are we only now complaining because auto workers are losing those benefits? Why weren't we complaining before about the fact that other workers never got those benefits?

[Romulox]

38. Tearing others down instead working to build is the very soul of RIGHTWING politics

"He was merely pointing out the fact that most retirees have never enjoyed the benefits that auto workers got."

That is because there is no solidarity among workers. Note that there was not a shread of compassion or concern on the part of the poster I responded to. The only message he could be bothered to express is one noting that now the UAW retirees can suffer like everyone else. Your response to me is a subtle variant on the same theme.

"IMO, all retirees should get those benefits. Why are we only now complaining because auto workers are losing those benefits? Why weren't we complaining before about the fact that other workers never got those benefits?"

Research the history of trade unionism in this country, then ask yourself, "Am I more or less likely to receive retirees benefits not that the Obama administration has broken the UAW?" :hi:

[totodeinhere]

40. You are putting the worst possible spin on my comments.

Yes, I agree that I am less likely to get those benefits now that the UAW is on it's knees. That's my whole point. Instead of just advocating for auto workers, we should advocate for all workers and we should not rest until all workers get the benefits that they deserve. But it seems that the point of this thread is that it's too bad that auto workers are losing those benefits but there is no mention of or compassion for all of those other workers who never got those benefits in the first place.

Too often, rather than having solidarity in the labor movement, it's been every man for himself. The attitude has been "as long as I have got mine I don't care about anyone else." That's just wrong.

Yes, it sucks that auto workers are losing those benefits that they worked their whole lives for. But the discussion needs to move beyond that to the subject of getting better benefits for all workers, not just auto workers.

[Romulox]

41. LOL. Nobody "got those benefits"--they FOUGHT for them.

"The attitude has been "as long as I have got mine I don't care about anyone else." That's just wrong."

And the corollary: "I haven't got any benefits; it makes me feel good to see you lose yours!" is precisely the attitude to which I am responding.

"But the discussion needs to move beyond that to the subject of getting better benefits for all workers, not just auto workers."

Are you paying attention? The discussion is moving to removing more benefits for more workers. That's how this works. :hi:

[totodeinhere]

42. Show me where anyone on DU has said...

"it makes me feel good to see you lose yours." I know I haven't said that and I never will. And I certainly don't advocate "removing more benefits for more workers." Quite the contrary, I want it the other way around. But I want to concentrate on all workers, not just a certain subset of workers.

[Romulox]

43. You're wasting my time, and I think YOU are expressing (and defending) that sentiment.

"But I want to concentrate on all workers, not just a certain subset of workers."

I don't. *I* have insurance, so I care almost exactly as much whether or not "everyone" gets retiree health benefits as you do that these "certain subset of workers" is losing theirs! Almost exactly as much! :hi:

[totodeinhere]

45. Well at least we know where we stand now.

You have admitted that as long as you have your benefits you don't care if anyone else has them. I think that's all we need to know about your attitude.

Yet you have the temerity to suggest that I don't care that retired auto workers are losing benefits, even though I haven't said that and for the record I don't feel that way. It's you who doesn't care about every worker, not me.

[Romulox]

46. Way to recognize sarcasm. You had an agenda jumping into this subthread, but I'm not biting.

"It's you who doesn't care about every worker, not me."

It was your agenda from the outset to express this sentiment, which is tenuously related to our discussion at best (save from my obviously facetious mockery of your position via inversion :hi: )

[totodeinhere]

47. It was not obvious at all.

Not to be beating a dead horse, but based upon what you have been saying it was a very reasonable and logical assumption to take your comment at face value. So thanks for pointing out that you were using sarcasm since to me it was not at all evident. And in fact, it leaves me wondering if at least subliminally you might actually feel that way notwithstanding you assertion that you were being facetious and sarcastic.

[we can do it]

36. So What? What a Pathetic Poor Me Post- Screw You Whiners

I don't get so you shouldn't either.

[Skittles]

53. he's just pointing out a FACT

[Skittles]

52. CORRECT

[Hannah Bell]

6. Ford is now asking for the same concessions GM & Chrysler got

and they'll get them.

Race to the bottom, indeed.

It's going to bite everyone.

Americans *will* be integrated into the global low-wage regime.

[Delphinus]

27. Unfortunately,

you are quite correct.

[madmom]

7. Hubby and I did the same thing with glasses, it still cost us $300 f*cking dollars WITH insurance!

[Doremus]

10. Costco has the best prices I've found. Other than the online place that a DUer posted about.

http://www.zennioptical.com/cart/home.php

Complete Single Vision Eyeglasses starting at $8.00
Complete Bi-Focal Eyeglasses Starting at $25.00
Complete Progressive Eyeglasses starting at $37.00
Anti Scratch coating Free
UV protection Free
Lens Edge polishing and Beveling Free

Upgrades
Premium Photochromic lenses for
(Clear indoors, darkens outdoors in sunlight ) $39.00
Upgrade to 1.61 index lenses for $17.00
Upgrade to 1.67 index lenses for $37.00
Premium anti reflective coating $4.95
Sunglass color tint coating (7 available) $4.95

[safeinOhio]

17. I got my last pair of free UAW glasses and it cost me

$300 out of pocket. went to
http://zennioptical.com/cart/home.php
and got a better pair for $89. The ones I ordered on the net got here a few days before the opt. ones came. I don't see any loss on optical. Dentist is another story.

[Delphinus]

28. That's amazing!

How did you know what your prescription was? Can you make your eye doctor tell you, especially if they're in store with an optical department?

[safeinOhio]

30. yes

By law they have to give it to you.

[w4rma]

19. No problem. We'll all be getting universal health insurance, soon. Right, Sen. Baccus? (nt)

[Spangle]

26. With so many GOP needing it

It is more likely then a couple of years ago..

[KakistocracyHater]

23. third world quality of life=being competitive

& the screw pills are not necessary except to trace them to the rape rooms being used in various black ops sites. You can't have that if you refuse birth control pills.

[cap]

29. why the heck isn't the trend in labor upwards and not downwards

why do people begrudge the UAW for what they get or manage to hang onto.

Why is the attitude "Join the Club" instead of ... "hey, the UAW gets this. Why not me?"

[Romulox]

44. It's the Crabs in a Pot phenomena. See upthread.

[cap]

48. but the crabs never get out of the pot!

it should be a lesson!

[Romulox]

49. The idea is that once one crab gets close to the edge, the others pull him back down.

Perfect analogy for US society.