Report: Medicare Expansion Would Not Solve Problems

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: Washington Post

By David S. Hilzenrath
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 15, 2009; 12:00 PM

Expanding access to Medicare won't solve the nation's health-care cost problem.

That's the message of a report released today by a commission that advises Congress on the federal medical program for older Americans.

To eliminate wasteful spending, policymakers must transform economic incentives for doctors, hospitals and other providers of medical services -- though it isn't clear how, according to the report.

As Congress and the Obama administration seek to restrain potentially crushing increases in health-care spending, the report by the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC) is emblematic of the larger debate: long on explanations of problems and short on solutions.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/15/AR2009061501545.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR

[OHdem10]

1. WAPO ,every now and again, shows their GOP bias.

[WriteDown]

4. So the WAPO created the report

issued to Congress?

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. What specifically about the Washington Post's article is biased?

:shrug:

[WriteDown]

2. ?

"To eliminate wasteful spending, policymakers must transform economic incentives for doctors, hospitals and other providers of medical services -- though it isn't clear how, according to the report."


Well thanks I guess?

[Cleita]

3. Doesn't anyone research stuff anymore before they publish it as gospel truth?

One only need to look north to see a system where Medicare was extended to everyone and is working just fine. Also, since the bureaucracy is already in place and being administered by experienced staff workers, there would be an even smoother transition than starting from scratch.

[WriteDown]

6. Looking North...

Canada's medical system is not without its problems. Also, Canada benefits from the US's military as the US is required to support Canada if they are ever attacked. Seems like a good deal would be for us to split any military upkeep with Canada and they can expand their healthcare program to cover all US citizens. :)

[Proletariatprincess]

9. I never understood that argument...

that the US is required to support allies if they are ever attacked. The fact is, canada and other allies do not have a belligerant foreign policy like that of the USA so there is little danger of attack. The USA causes most of the problems in the world with its military solution to every issue.
I believe that these support issues serve the military industrial complex in the USA and have little if anything to do with "protecting" our allies.

[Cleita]

12. It's a straw man. It has nothing to do with the debate at hand. n/t

[WriteDown]

14. See Taiwan for another example...

Military spending is just a small part of it. Look at the amount of financial aid the US provided around the world last year as opposed to Canada. Also, check out what the US's dues are at the UN.

[Cleita]

10. Believe me their problems compared to ours are microscopic in scale.

And don't make straw men. Military has nothing to do with looking at their health care as a model for our.

[WriteDown]

13. Its all about funding...

But why not try this for a little enlightenment. As someone who has had no less than 4 joint reconstructed due to sports injuries, I'm a little concerned.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml

[Cleita]

18. We fund the health insurance industry or they wouldn't exist. Removing the

middle man and redirecting that funding to a single payer government run health insurance will fund it.

[WriteDown]

19. The article supplied does not seem to support that....

although I agree with your sentiments. I think we can have better than the Canadian model. I think ours must focus and require preventative care.

[brentspeak]

21. The article supplied is also 4 years old

Thank goodness that health-care delays don't happen here in the U.S...... :spray:

[WriteDown]

23. So things have changed radically in Canadian healthcare...

since 4 years ago. Please do tell.

[Cleita]

22. Did you just arrive from the Ayn Rand institute? Your article is astroturf.

Preventive care is fine for young, healthy people, but people who get cancer or come down with some debilitating disease that might kick in for genetic reasons and has nothing to do with their life style need comprehensive medical care at a time in their lives that they might not be able to work and have health insurance.

[WriteDown]

25. Has to be a combination of the two...

There is also a delay associated with angioplastys in the Canadian healthcare system. Do you consider that procedure to be critical?

[Cleita]

28. Your article, deals in anecdotes some of them anonymous. But here is

your real source, cleverly inserted in the middle of the piece.

"It won't make a difference," said Sally C. Pipes, a Canadian who heads the conservative Pacific Research Institute in San Francisco. "They need to break the system down, or open the system up to competition."

Only the World Health Facts part is noted. The rest can't be sourced or proven and like I said our DU Canadians tell us a far different story.

[WriteDown]

30. I wonder how DU Canadians will respond to either of these?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-klein7-2009apr07,0,3092824.story

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

The LA times shows several other healthcare systems such as Germany's(one that I have had personal experience with) and Sweden's which deserve a much better look than Canada's current system.

[Cleita]

35. Oh I agree, some of the European systems are far more superior but I pointed

to Canada because they have a system that covers everyone, with little in copays, for half of what we spend on health care per capita and we still have 40 million uninsured people in America with no health care and many more who are underinsured.

[WriteDown]

37. Oh...

Then we're in agreement. I was just pointing out that there were better models to copy out there. :)

[Cleita]

20. I had to laugh at your link there. It contains all the astroturf that the

insurance company publicists spread about the Canadian system. Most of it isn't true. Much of it is outdated. and if the author had a byline I could trace it back even further to probably some RW think tank. But this is how they operate, they get their articles published in mainstream publications to give them authenticity but they are pure propaganda.

[WriteDown]

24. Yep...

CBS and AP collaborated to spread propaganda concerning the Canadian healthcare system in order to promote their own nefarious agenda. :eyes:

[Cleita]

26. AP is known to be right wing. They took an article and published it without

fact checking and CBS did likewise. That's what propaganda is. Like I said if I knew who wrote it I could trace it back for you. Regardless, it's propaganda. Any Canadian will tell you that.

[WriteDown]

27. Are you in Canada?

I worked for many years at a terminal block manufacturing company that had one of its main facilities in Canada and travelled back and forth quite a bit. Plenty of Canadians complain about it. Especially the ones that need urgent care.

Here's the right-wing LA Times with more of those pesky facts

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-klein7-2009apr07,0,3092824.story

AND wikipedia has an excellent comparison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

[Cleita]

32. It just so happens I used to work in northeastern Washington, sixty miles

from the Canadian border. Since I have been at this health care thing for a long time I used to ask the Canadian tourists about their Medicare. Most of them liked it and when asked if they would prefer our system, none would trade our system for theirs. For chrissakes, Ezra Klein says our system is busted in the LATimes article and your wikipedia comparison does not favor our system either. Both articles point to the fact that Canada can deliver the same health care for half of what it costs us.

[pattmarty]

11. Noooooooooo, seems like we cut our military budget by AT LEAST half.

Evidently you WANT to keep our fine and dandy healthcare system. You got yours, and fuck everybody else. There was a recent poll of Canadians about how they felt about their system and a big majority love it. We in the US have been fucking around with this since 1948 and still have a shit system, it's about time we upgrade to 21st century healthcare.

[WriteDown]

15. Please become informed...

Try this for a little insight...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml


As I said in a previous post, its not just military spending, its foreign aid, UN dues, etc.

I'm all for cuts in all of these, but they are the current reality.

[bemildred]

7. You could start by taking all the money that goes for "insurance" right now

and put it into Medicare. I would bet that would go a long way towards paying for covering everybody. Then, of course, you could regulate medical care effectively, work on fraud and other abuses. The present "system" is so broken it would be hard to fuck up worse.

[Cleita]

16. Yep and with that money that isn't going to 30% administrative costs,

you could cover everyone 100% and for dental and vision as well. If you could divide our per capita cost of approximately $8,000.00 per year in health costs in half to $4,000.00 a year, you probably could end homelessness too, a fact that out of work insurance CEOs might appreciate.

[kooljerk666]

8. look at this article on health care costs.....

Some rat hole county in Texas is spending $15K per medicare recipient.
In Minnesota in the county where the mayo clinic is located, under $7k per medicare recipient.

Dr.'s in Texas work on commission & own diagnostic practices where they are doing unnecessary tests to pump up the bill.

Nobody at the mayo clinic works on commission, ALL ON SALARY.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande?yrail

The feds ought to outlaw commission payments to ALL HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS!

[Aragorn]

17. wrong

No commissions to Texas doctors. Your point is otherwise correct.

[kooljerk666]

31. this paragraph seems to indicate MD are getting commisions....

I am not looking for a fight, just single payer health care.

Plz find this paragraph & look at the context.


She wasn’t the only person to mention Renaissance. It is the newest hospital in the area. It is physician-owned. And it has a reputation (which it disclaims) for aggressively recruiting high-volume physicians to become investors and send patients there. Physicians who do so receive not only their fee for whatever service they provide but also a percentage of the hospital’s profits from the tests, surgery, or other care patients are given. (In 2007, its profits totalled thirty-four million dollars.) Romero and others argued that this gives physicians an unholy temptation to overorder.

[Old Coot]

29. Good article! n/t

[dpbrown]

33. Universal, Single-Payer Health Care Now!

It's not like insurance companies won't find something else to insure!

[Stellabella]

34. Why don't we take a survey of the over 65 crowd and see if they would rather

go back to trying to buy their own insurance?

Doubt many would want to eliminate Medicare and SS. That's enough for me that it works and expanding it is a good idea.

[Cleita]

36. Here's my vote. I never felt secure in my health plans until I got old enough

for Medicare. Without Medicare, I would be blind today because I wouldn't have been able to afford my cataract surgery. I would probably have colon cancer because the polyps that are removed every time I get a colonoscopy wouldn't have happened because there would be no colonoscopy. I already pay 20% of my income on health care but at least I get health care. On a private plan I would probably have a five thousand dollar deductible. I want all Americans to have what I have and they should.

[Old Coot]

38. How often do you get your colonoscopies?

I have Medicare AND Blue Cross insurance. Blue Cross no longer allows colonoscopies, even after the deductible. My understanding is that Medicare covers them only once every ten years.

I had my last one 5 years ago and am now due for another. I have put off getting it because of lack of coverage. If it is every 10 years, then I guess I just have to take my chances for the next 5.

I appreciate your input.

[Cleita]

39. They were doing them every five years and I'm due for one next year.

I hope that Medicare hasn't gone to ten years. Of course our pols seem determined to cut benefits on Medicare so I guess I should check up on it.

[Old Coot]

41. Thanks. You are helpful.

I will probably contact a different doctor and check it out. My existing doctor never sees me for appointments. I just see him every 5 years for an endoscopy and a colonoscopy. I think he is just in business to do procedures. Some time back I saw another doc who said I didn't need an endoscopy every five years like I have been having. So, I have put it off, too. (I have Barret's esophagus. Supposedly. The second doc says I don't.)

[WriteDown]

46. I have to get mine every two years...

And the prep never gets any better. Ugh.

[Cleita]

40. Here's an article I found about it.

It seems the ten year figure is for those at low risk. If you have a history of polyps it seems you can get them more frequently...I hope.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_1_1x_Medicare_Expands_Coverage_of_Colonoscopy_Screenings.asp

[Old Coot]

42. Thanks for the info. I will have to check on that. n/t

[Stellabella]

48. And I'm sure you're in the majority.

After all, until Social Security, the largest group of Americans in poverty were the elderly. Now the elderly are quite well off.

Of course, now it's children who are the largest numbers in poverty, but after all, they have been born, so the GOP doesn't care about them anymore.

[and-justice-for-all]

43. bull shit!!! total BULL SHIT!!! LIES!!!

By expanding Medicare, which is a National Health Care plan, it would in fact cut cost. Why? Because the Government would be negotiating cost of services and prescriptions. The medical industry shouldn't be a for profit industry anyway.

There is a reason why prescriptions in the UK only cost 6 to 8 GBP(which is roughly 10 to 14 USD), its is because of those negotiations that Parliament has with the Pharmaceutical companies and that medical doctors are in fact Government employees. Do they tell you which doctor you can see? Not at all, but insurance companies sure do. I could not go to my dentist that I have had since I was 8 because he was not in the network, I mean I could go, but that defeats the purpose of paying for coverage now doesn't?

So it is in realty that the insurance companies do dictate as to which doctor you can and can not see; it would not be the Government.

And yes, those same companies sell the same drugs here at astronomical prices.

Would Medicare solve all the issues? Not at all. Would it be 100x better than what we have or do not have now? YES.

What would also help, would be cutting the Pentagons budget by a least a 1/4 and ending the illegal wars and occupations. Then, pump those funds into Medicare and give any needed overhaul.

[defendandprotect]

44. GOP bias . . . and we need to stop corporations from ripping off Medicare ...!!!

As far as I know, they've just continued to let this happen -- !!!

[defendandprotect]

45. MEDICARE FOR ALL . . .is the cheapest AND best way to go --

[defendandprotect]

47. MEDICARE FOR ALL . . .is the cheapest AND best way to go --

And it's what the GOP has always feared would happen -- !!!