Schwarzenegger budget plan would eliminate welfare, close most state parks

[Newsjock]

Source: San Jose Mercury News

Faced with a ballooning deficit and a clear signal that voters won't pay more to fix it, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger Tuesday released a budget plan that would eliminate welfare, drop 1 million poor children from health insurance, cut off new grants for college students and shut down 80 percent of state parks.

In a state that long has prided itself on its social safety net, it could well go down in history as the most drastic reduction in social programs ever. And billions in further cuts will be unveiled later this week.

The governor's proposal to whack an additional $5.5 billion from state programs stunned even longtime Capitol-watchers with its blunt force. Ending cash assistance for 1.3 million impoverished state residents, for example, would make California the only state with no welfare program.

"Every single first-world nation has a safety net program for children," said Will Lightbourne, Santa Clara County's social services director. "This would return us to the era of Dickens — you'd have to go back to the 19th century to find a comparable proposal."

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/topstories/ci_12454979

[Odin2005]

1. OMFG!

:grr:

[begin_within]

2. Conservatives' wet dream: get rid of welfare, get rid of health care, privatize public parks,

in other words, dismantle the public sector piece by piece.

[JDPriestly]

23. The Christian Right will take care of this, of course.

Where is Huckabee? Where is Romney? Where is George W.? If government can't raise taxes to pay for welfare and parks, shouldn't those who vote against taxes, welfare and parks suggest an alternative?

How many homeless, hungry children do we need here in California?

[Joe Bacon]

31. Yeah, where are the churches?

I'm just waiting for the Crystal Cathedral to start taking in the destitute. Fat chance!

[begin_within]

33. Isn't the Crystal Cathedral itself destitute?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/01/BA8T15KTAM.DTL

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

70. The Block at Orange needs a bigger parking lot anyways

[begin_within]

114. Is that what the mall is called now?

I worked there briefly in 1976 and at that time it was called "The City," and it was an experimental type of development at that time, with businesses, residences and shopping all one property. Now that's pretty common but on a smaller scale, but then it was considered an innovation. I haven't been to it in 30 years though, it was still a fairly small shopping mall when I was there.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

117. The redeveloped it into a "lifestyle center" about a decade ago

It is actually in pretty rough shape these days losing several large retailers in a few months with no replacements on the horizon.

[begin_within]

120. I notice their "anchor stores" are "Neiman Marcus Last Call" and "Off Saks Fifth Avenue"

so I guess it's not exactly the tony neighborhood. I don't think it ever really caught on, I worked there in the General Nutrition Center in the mid-1970s and the mall was usually very quiet.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

134. It gets the tourists

There is a shuttle that serves the Disney strip hotels, it was doing okay until it abruptly lost a whole pile of stores recently. They still would have been better off building "Orange Mills" as originally planned but they thought the site was too small.

[tclambert]

88. I think I overheard George W. whispering, "Mission accomplished."

[roguevalley]

135. honest to god. The legislature better have a pair. I hope those who

recalled whats his name are happy. Fuckers.

[KakistocracyHater]

161. Ever notice how Republicans CAN'T balance ANY budget?

becoming a 3rd world nation seems to be their perrenial goal. Pete Wilson did his damage too, I believe he was the 1 that took away motel vouchers for the evicted.

Will Arnie take away ALL Social Security? Is this even legal-his current proposal? Republicans ALWAYS go after children, the elderly, the veterans, the disabled & STILL FAIL TO BALANCE ANYTHING. Each time though, they leave the State worse off & with goppy presidents-they leave the NATION WORSE OFF.

I say emergency recall of the "governator", time to terminate him. Again.

[babylonsister]

3. Wow. Grasping at straws, no plan, and a rethug?

I have two sisters in CA, I feel really bad about what's going on, but who is supposed to fix it?

If the prez attempts it, he'd have 49 more states to talk to.

[musette_sf]

4. "Ahhr dere no vorkhauses?"

[tclambert]

89. "If dey be laik to die. let dem, and decreaze de zurpluss populashin."

[tclambert]

90. Um, yeah, actually workhouses would presumably be a government run enterprise

and the conservatives wouldn't want that, either. So it's tent cities for everyone! (Recommendation: invest in camping stores.)

[Mind_your_head]

5. A conservative's wet dream......true.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

30. yes, my first thoughts exactly

conservatives must be doing cartwheels with happiness.

[caseymoz]

79. Actually, the resulting tragedy could make conservatives finally shut up

Everyone will see the results of conservatism in practice.

I'd much rather that there not be this tragedy, but it was almost fated since Ronald Reagan that we'd see this happen.

[certainot]

109. CA can thank their RW talk radio monopoly for making it happen

so when are californians going to start boycotting and picketing their local stations and their local sponsors?

[NYC_SKP]

6. This has been a long time coming. Blame lays well beyond Arnold.

We should know better than to blame the sitting governor or president for the good or bad that takes decades to create.

We had Republicans George Deukmejian and Pete Wilson from 1983 through 1999, and an ineffectual Democrat, Gray Davis, until 2003.

[girl gone mad]

49. Arnold does deserve blame because of what he has decided to cut.

There were plenty of other options at his disposal, but he chose to hurt the poorest and neediest, those who have few means to fight back.

[caseymoz]

81. What were the other options?

I'm not coming out for Arnold, but the conservative platform of "no new taxes" either has to give way, or the State is ruined. He dares not borrow more money on top of what California has borrowed for decades to fund the tax-cutters, and to tell the truth, probably nobody would buy the bonds at this point.

So, are there Repubs in the State Legislature willing to lose so many votes for their anti-tax convictions? If so, are there many of those who would actually starve people in their own State to see unfettered capitalism in action? Are there many who believe in their free-market ideals enough that they won't break faith now that crunch time is here?

Arnold has actually done a very courageous thing here. He has challenged free market conservatives to stick by their convictions. Whether they do or not now, free-market conservatism is finished. If they approve the budget, the resulting tragedy and revolt will leave conservatism in ruins. If they don't, they've shown how little they actually believe their convictions.

I'd rather this had been avoided completely, but let's face it, the low tax crowd was going to continue till it wrecked the country, so, let's hope we can mitigate the wreckage.

[iamthebandfanman]

93. have they gone without pay ?

why should the people of california suffer because of political mistakes they had nothing to do with?

seems to me that elected officials should be taking the brunt of the downfall.

less pay and less benefits would be nice , since things are so gosh darn awful that they would hafta elminate welfare.


start knockin' off their financial and social protections first.

[rvablue]

144. "political mistakes they had nothing to do with"????? Er....

all of this mess is squarely at the feet of CA voters who voted in Prop. 13.

It may have kept some in their houses, but it also allowed multi-million dollar real estate developers from paying their fair share and has completely gutted municipal tax revenues.

To deal with that, since CA schools were becoming miserable failures, the CA voters then passed another referendum mandating that 40% of the state budget go to fund education. There's nothing else like it that I know of in the United States. The voters want it all and they don't want to pay for it.

And while the legislators are still getting paid, they just cut their salaries 10%.

[KansDem]

149. "all of this mess is squarely at the feet of CA voters who voted in Prop. 13."

I agree. As a transplanted Californian who was living there in 1979, I voted against Prop. 13 mainly for the reasons you stated.

What a bullshit campaign Prop. 13 was! Scare homeowners shitless with "if it doesn't pass, you'll lose your home!" statements, then watch California endure budget problems as it spirals downward financially...

I knew a couple who swore up and down if Prop. 13 didn't pass, they'd have to move out of California. They listened to all the pro-Prop. 13 propaganda. Well, it passed and the first thing this couple did was buy a second home in Big Bear. They must have confused "sense of entitlement" with "sense of need."

[rvablue]

153. Perfect example. It should be an OP!

And I bet your friend's still have that vacation home.

And when they pass, they'll give it to their kids. And, the Prop. 13 cap will still apply to them.

And that nice little home that they paid, what?, maybe $50,000 for in the 70's, is now worth a million or more now.

And their kids will continue to pay taxes on $50,000 (with miniscule annual increases), not $1 million.

It's ridiculous and as far as I know the only bargain like it the United States! In other states, if you can't pay the taxes, or don't want to, you sell.

The law should have been limited to a certain age (50-55+??)and it should have only applied to one's primary residence.

[KansDem]

154. They moved out of California in 2007

They sold their "cabin" in Big Bear for some $80,000 and sold their home in Long Beach for something like a little over $300,000 (I think they bought it for around $18,000 in 1966) and all the while they paid capped taxes when Prop. 13 passed until they sold and moved out of state (30 years later).

They moved to Idaho, "reminding me" of how they "got out" just in time (before the housing crash), and all the time bitching about southern California minorities and graffiti.

I thought, "Wow!!! Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!" I don't find them too pleasant to be around and am glad I don't talk to them very much any more...

[ContinentalOp]

156. That's the thing that's annoying about blaming CA voters for Prop 13.

Many of them moved out of state since then. And hey, some of us weren't even BORN yet!

[caseymoz]

148. Good principle, but it would save little real money.

Salaries of elected officials don't add up to a flea bite on those budget deficits.

[rvablue]

143. Like what? Give some examples?

I'm just curious to see what you come up with.

Ater passing Prop. 13 which gutted municipal budgets, CA voters then decided to pass another referendum mandating that 40% of the state budget go to fund education.

That leaves 60% of revenue from sales and income taxes to pay for everything else. It's simply untenable.

Don't for a minute take this as some type of defense of Ahnuld. He knew damn well this was the fate of CA and exploited it to get into the Governor's mansion.

CAers want all of these services but they aren't willing to pay for them. And I think Ahnuld is going after these more "progressive" services in order to blackmail Obama into giving a bailout. It's cynical for sure.

[No Elephants]

77. Don't forget Reagan! Rahnuld to Ahnuld.

[NYC_SKP]

104. Yep. We only had one good man in there. Jerry Brown. Drove a Fury I, not the limo.

And refused to live in Reagan's new governor's mansion, stayed in his apartment.

Rahnult to Ahnuld! :rofl:

[xxqqqzme]

119. Yea, thank god we got rid of

'ineffectual' Davis. We got a MUCH better barain w/ steroid boy!

You can trace California's slide back to st ronnie as well. He started the dismantling of education in CA. And don't forget prop 13.

[SharonAnn]

133. And don't forget Governor Reagan.

[rvablue]

141. Can't even fully blame those guys. Switch them out and things would be the same right now.

CA has to repeal Prop. 13 and that's that. Or else things will never change.

Do you know there are people who bought apartment buildings and commercial property back in the early 70s and either still own it or passed it on to their heirs and they are paying 1970 tax rates on what is now probably hundreds of millions of dollards worth of property.

Prop. 13 has got to go. No governor or legislature can save services and balance the budget with it still in place.

It's going to be harsh reality, but someone is going to have to face it and start speaking up eventually.

[Cha]

160. I read the other day

it goes back 30 years

Richardo (1000+ posts) Tue May-26-09 03:18 AM
Original message
Krugman nails the reasons for California's economic debacle

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/25/opinion/25krugman.htm...

The seeds of California’s current crisis were planted more than 30 years ago, when voters overwhelmingly passed Proposition 13, a ballot measure that placed the state’s budget in a straitjacket. Property tax rates were capped, and homeowners were shielded from increases in their tax assessments even as the value of their homes rose.

The result was a tax system that is both inequitable and unstable. It’s inequitable because older homeowners often pay far less property tax than their younger neighbors. It’s unstable because limits on property taxation have forced California to rely more heavily than other states on income taxes, which fall steeply during recessions.

Even more important, however, Proposition 13 made it extremely hard to raise taxes, even in emergencies: no state tax rate may be increased without a two-thirds majority in both houses of the State Legislature. And this provision has interacted disastrously with state political trends.

I graduated from a California university with a shiny new BA in Political Science in 1978 - the year Proposition 13 passed. Consequently, entry-level jobs in Public Administration at the city level dried up, and young Richardo was compelled to find employment in the private sector, never again to have a job that used that Poli Sci degree. I left California in 1980 for ten years, and again for good in 1993. As I tell employers, I'm not worth the amount of money they'd have to pay me to go back there.

Since 1978, the combination of the property tax ceiling, a requirment for a 2/3rds supermajority of both houses to raise taxes, and the citizen initiative have made that California's economy an ungovernable, unsustainable, internally-conflicted clusterfuck. The fact that other states are toying with the citizan initiative is absolutely unconscionable, with the end-result plainly visible.

In the face of this crisis, the GOP in California is, just as on the national level, being reduced to its base and its nonsensical, laughable core mantras of lower taxes and limited government (for business anyway - they're very much in favor of unlimited government in social issues).

While this self-immolation of the GOP is kinda fun to watch, what remains unburned is still enough to prevent rational solutions from being implemented. This is another argument for more aggressive executive and legislative initiatives from the Democrats - the leverage is in their favor, and pushing the GOP toward ideological purity will cause the moderates either to jump or reassert themselves. Either result would lessen the GOP's ability to obstruct.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5720208

This was all over DU at the time..Arnold and the Enron Connect..

<snips>

"Well a new report by investigative reporter Greg Palast published on Saturday is charging Arnold and Enron’s Kenneth Lay involvement in a $9 billion California swindle.

At the center of the story is a private lawsuit filed last year by California’s Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante to make Enron and other power companies pay back $9 billion in illicit profits. The suit shows how they carried off the profits by fraudulent reporting of sales transactions, megawatt “laundering,” fake power delivery scheduling. Palast cites a 34-page internal Enron memo he obtained."

http://i1.democracynow.org/2003/10/6/schwarzenegger_accused_of_involvement_in_9b


Arnold did run on the premise that he would govern California like a business and eliminate all the up and downs of the economy..It's too bad all the history is making it impossible right now.

[pfitz59]

7. Ready for Anarchy?

People will use the parks, even if they're closed. What will happen is the toilets won't flush, and the trash will go uncollected! The folks coming off welfare will flood city streets like a wave of refugees. Maybe its time someone again asked Arnold why he met with Ken Lay in 2001?

[glinda]

8. NRA dream. They will charge for hunting to keep money coming in. Ya think?

[Triana]

9. aways taking out of the hides of the poor, children, elderly, sick, unemployed..

....when is Aaaahnuld going to give up HIS salary?

[MUAD_DIB]

14. I'm not sure he draws a salary. Like former Gov. Mittens Romney here

in Massachusetts I think that Arnold had enough money to do the job for free.


Never trust a person that is so rich that they will do the job for free because you'll be paying for it for a long time to come.

[No Elephants]

84. No salary, but he spends a ton of other people's money. Check links like

these

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/05/local/me-arnold5

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/02/15/arnold/index.html

http://www.arnoldwatch.org/special_interests/index.html


Not a pretty picture. Besides, a governor's salary is a drop in the bucket compared to what the state furnishes a governor in terms of housing, domestic staff, other staff, transportation, chauffeur, etc. And all that is a drop in the bucket compared to Arnold's other spending that does not come out of his own pocket.

[rpannier]

17. He doesn't take a salary

[happygoluckytoyou]

73. AND HE IS WORTH EVERY PENNY HE GETS ! ! !

[Pharaoh]

10. This is Capitalism

Just wait.............it will get worse unless enough wake up.

[villager]

11. Delete

computer glitch...

[villager]

12. Or will it have to get worse *until* they wake up?

Alas...

[MUAD_DIB]

13. Is Arnold trying to destroy what is left of the Republicans in CA?

That is stunningly the last thing I would expect any sane politician to do.

Tell me he is not running again.


If this goes through what will be the ramifications of cutting so many off from public assistance?

If this goes through then the GOP, and any Democrat that okays it, is done in California.

[villager]

15. If we can get the Death Party below its toxic 1/3 grip on the budget process

Then maybe we can begin to incrementally turn things around here...

[MUAD_DIB]

18. I hope that they are run out on a rail.

[dotymed]

97. Capitalism

If anyone is watching, is unsustainable on its own. It funnels
al of the money and property to the wealthy, and then what?
Well, you have to cut out all "social programs" in
order to keep funneling what capital is left.
Socialism, is such a heinous word to the
"republicans", that are left. They say it will
change our constitution,,etc... Where does our constitution
say that we are a society based on "unfettered
capitalism?" More propaganda! Unfortunately, America was
created to "maintain the status quo." Which has
always been interpreted as keeping the rich, rich and the
poor, poor. We could choose to interpret it as keeping the
citizenry (corporations are not people no matter what the
SCOTUS says) prosperous and able to pursue, life,liberty and
the pursuit of happiness.
We could do this by following the lead of a "tin horn
dictator"(more repub. propaganda) from Venezuela. Chavez,
nationalized the money making enterprises of his country and
said that the land and its contents belong to the citizens.
The poor are no longer slaves to the wealthy. What a concept.
Equality and no more indentured servitude, WOW. That, to me,
is what America is supposed to represent. Of course the
wealthy won't "go gentle into that brave night."
Just like in Venezuela, we need a leader that is bold enough
to say "no mas" and stand up for the majority of
citizens. These are not the monied, unscrupulous leeches, who
now own our country. They are the poor, average working class
who deserve their fair share. ie..single payer health care,a
living wage, jobs,property, paid leave....all of those things
that civilized countries in Europe take for granted. Their
citizens, long ago, DEMANDED that their politicians stop
getting rich and start working for them. Civil Disobedience is
the answer. Americans are too soft and greedy (maybe I'll win
the lottery)to work for real change. Not the change promised
to you in a politicians speech, but fundamental changes that
you have to work for and demand. The wealthy won't just give
in.

[Old Hob]

115. Only 1/3 of Californians voted to increase taxes as a means of shoring up the CA budget deficits.

So it sounds to me like it isn't just a Republican thing anymore and, perhaps, Democrats would be wise to recognize this.

[villager]

130. and yet, a small cabal of rightwingers can nix any generally agreed budget settlement

in Sacramento -- tyranny of the minority. Which is why those poorly written propositions -- you neglected to mention how low the overall voter turnout was for the "special election" -- were put to the voters in the first place.

Californians would be wise to recognize how broken the legislative process is.

[shanti]

44. he's termed out

with about 18 months left. it can't come soon enough.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[caseymoz]

83. He isn't running again, I would think.

This isn't the move of a politician who cares about his career. I think he wants a part in "Terminator 5: Anarchy." In fact, I think he has just wrote the plot.

Even if that's true, I am in the minority around here who thinks this takes guts. It tells conservatives to stand up for it now if they really believe their free-market, low-tax drivel. Frankly, I think they're going to give in, but even so, I think California is going to still be facing tragic cuts in the safety net, at a time when they need it most.

[Le Taz Hot]

101. By not bailing out California

but yet finding money for banks and corrupt insurance companies, Obama's pretty much done the same thing to the Democratic Party here. It will be a pox on both your houses in this state.

[xxqqqzme]

121. Thankfully, he can't run again.

Termed out - at last!

[bloomington-lib]

16. why would they need to be in jail that long anyway

"In the prisons, rehabilitation, education and vocational programs would be hacked. So would the sentences of nonviolent, non serious offenders, who would go free a year early. "

[rpannier]

19. And what is everyone elses suggestion here

They had a plan

The stupid voters decided they didn't want to have their taxes raised, so what is he supposed to do

As Boxer said, "Elections have consequences." And now people in California are going to start seeing them.

Let's see how they like them

[shanti]

45. it makes

me so angry that he's even in office! only an idiot would have voted for him!!!!

[ContinentalOp]

58. It wasn't a real plan. Arnold's plan only temporarily raised taxes two years from now anyway.

There would have been no immediate increase in revenue as far as I can tell. It was just more cuts and spending caps that we would have been stuck with for a long time. And it would have been a big political win for Arnold. And now he's getting his revenge.

[Xithras]

128. Yeah, which is why the CTA and other unions were BEGGING people to vote for them.

Because they're all in Arnie's pocket. Right.

Those teachers unions know the score in this state. We spend more than we take in, and nobody will loan us money to cover the difference any longer. There are no tax increases immediate enough to cover the difference.

The voters of California were pissed off at Sacramento, so they cut off their nose to spite their face. Would it have been a panacea? No, but it would have eliminated more than six billion in cuts.

[lolly]

163. Not the AFT

American Federation of Teachers (part of AFL/CIO) endorsed NO on all but 1B and 1F.

The spending caps in 1A would have just forced further decimation 2 years down the road (when Schwarz. would be conveniently gone).

[xxqqqzme]

122. May 19th special election had NOTHING

to do w/ raising taxes. It was all about robbing peter to pay paul and 'find the pea' shuffle. It still targeted the mentally distracted, children, disabled and education.

[alarimer]

129. Can they raise taxes and fees without voter approval?

Then they need to double, say, car registration fees and fees for other services.

The people will pay one way or another.

[KansDem]

151. "Can they raise taxes and fees without voter approval?"

It was done here in N.E. Kansas. Several years ago I received a letter from the county about the move from paying for wastewater removal with taxes to a "fee-based" system. I thought :wtf:, why should I pay a fee for what is essentially a public service? The letter began with the sentence, "In order to make things more equitable..." and I thought "for whom?"

Waste-water removal should be a public service paid for with taxes.

[ContinentalOp]

157. Sure, but not without a 2/3rds vote.

So no. Because Republicans won't cooperate.

[opihimoimoi]

20. Blame ISSA for this shit...it was he that fucked Davis who got blindsided by a recall

That clearly was a case of "CAREFUL OF WHAT YA WISH FOR"....YEP...They got the Gropeanator for a GOV...who brought in the Pub Team...

Yup..as suspected...they didn't have a clue as what to do...now look...FUBAR...all because of ISSA

[opihimoimoi]

21. BTW....one of the answers is the legalization of POT and how to tax

those pot lounges sim to those in Amsterdam...bucko bucks. and release those pot offenders would reduce their overloaded penal system
of several billion dollars....

Are they that DUMB????

[robinlynne]

26. plenty of oil tax revenue unpaid for the past 8 years....

[NJCher]

36. that is a very practical idea

But Republicans won't want to do it because (as we all know here), most of the people in prison are there for pot. And Republicans all have their buddies running private prisons, making money off these people.

I had one of my students do a speech on this topic and the statistics are mind boggling. The student presented her speech with bar charts showing the imprisonment for pot and it shocked everyone in the room. That bar on the chart soared, sort of like the WTC used to soar on the skyline.


Cher

[opihimoimoi]

67. Prisons evolved into a lucrative cottage industry which has a draining effect

overall if exceeds critical mass in ratio to the States Means...

[Le Taz Hot]

105. Okay, I have to correct something here.

California decriminalized pot in 1978 and voted in MM in 1996 so unless someone was growing ACRES of pot, or on federal land, the statement "most of the people in prison are there for pot" is woefully inaccurate -- at least in CA. And we don't have private prisons in California -- the union wouldn't let them in. We also voted in, by proposition, first-time drug offenders get rehab and not prison. The problems in CA are much more complex than "Oooo! Those nasty Republicans!" or "It's all because of pot offenders!"

California's fiscal problems are complex but one of the factors that no one is talking about are the life-long welfare/MediCal/food stamp recipients and yes, that DOES include the wealthy who get their own type of welfare but in a more indirect form.

[NJCher]

113. my student's speech was based on nationwide statistics

Thanks for your input though. Guess this idea wouldn't work. And good for your unions for keeping out these private prisons.


Cher

[rpannier]

22. The voters of California have only themselves to blame

They voted for the recall

And the sunk the new budget because they didn't want their taxes raised

They are totally to blame for this mess

[opihimoimoi]

34. they gatta fix it soon....

[rpannier]

38. Agreed. But sadly I think WC Fields was right

If you think people can't get any dumber wait 5 minutes...You be amazed at how much dumber they get.

[opihimoimoi]

66. Tis Reality...among us is a fungus

[lolly]

164. That's Arnold's line

But the propositions weren't about raising taxes--certainly not about raising taxes on the people who could most afford to pay them.

They were about spending caps and singling out which groups would lose state services.

The LATimes was full of letters from people challenging Arnold's interpretation of their vote--they all said they weren't against raising taxes to meet the state's needs, but were against spending caps and cuts.

[ContinentalOp]

64. Issa was just a useful dupe to set up the Enron-backed coup. -nt-

[opihimoimoi]

68. Didn't he run for the slot? Until Gropey showed up....?

[xxqqqzme]

125. He thought that because it was his money

backing the recall - he put up all the money for the signature gatherers - that the rethugs would hand him Sacramento. After the recall qualified, the rethugs told him 'don't even think about putting your name on the ballot' and he didn't. The campaign for steroid boy started the day after Davis was re-elected.

[rvablue]

145. It was a disgrave what happened to Davis, but CA would be in the same position today

even if he was still Governor or hadn't been recalled.

It's Prop. 13. It needs to be repealed. And until it is, CA will continue to go down the drain.

There is no other solution.

[tishaLA]

24. Terrifying. I have friends on GR (general relief) that nets them

a whole $220/month. They have to live on that because they are unemployed and, in some cases, unemployable. To think that their small pittance might disappear astonishes me....the streets would be filled with starving, angry people.

[The_Casual_Observer]

27. They'll shoot or beat up angry & starving people, the minute they start making trouble

It's that close right now.

[Joe Bacon]

32. Hey, let the destitute set up Arnoldvilles in the State Parks

What a legacy for that asshole!

[Fiendish Thingy]

25. Don't blame this on anti-tax voters- only one prop raised taxes, the rest CUT

education, mental health, etc. and borrowed a ton of money from the lottery which is supposed to go to schools. Prop 1A also imposed a Draconian spending cap, ala the infamous Prop 13., only allowing a fixed increase in spending, even in good years when revenues are up.

They were badly cobbled together and the voters were right to reject them.

I contacted my assemblyman and asked him to raise my taxes (I'm in the top 10%) and the taxes of everyone who makes as much or more than me, as well as raising the taxes on the large corporations.

This nonsense about taxpayer's revolt is wingnut spin.

[Triana]

28. 'raising taxes on the corporations' - they need to be paying taxes before you can raise 'em

make 'em pay - along with the churches - and yea, raise them on the richest. That alone would take care of it, probably.

[diane in sf]

42. Thanks for injecting facts about those stupid propositions

[Raksha]

46. It's been downhill for California ever since Prop. 13.

Is there any way of getting rid of it?

[rvablue]

147. There are two ways, both of which are highly unlikely:

1. CA Voters can wake up and eduate themselves and vote it down with another referendum.

This will never happen because who in their right mind would voluntarily raise their property taxes even though in the long run it would drive down housing prices and multi-millionaire and billionaire real estate developers would have to pay their fair (and very large share).

2. A two-thirds majority of CA legislators could vote to repeal it.

This will never happen as Prop. 13 is the third rail of CA politics and it would be sure political suicide to do so.

Prop. 13 is an utter disaster and CA will never heal with it on the books.

[ContinentalOp]

60. Thank you! A rare voice of reason. So many DUers buy into all sorts of nonsense...

that they use to blame CA voters rather than the Republican minority that is holding our state hostage.

[rpannier]

80. Yeah don't blame the people who have repeatedly refused to raise revenue

who have consistently supported 3 strikes (which keeps many in prison who shouldn't be there)
who want a mandatory number of days of PE (but won't fund it)

I mean why blame the people who have the power to change things, when we can blame someone else

[Fiendish Thingy]

107. Historically, Californians share responsibility with the legislature

for not voting for revenues to pay for infrastructure and services, but that's NOT what these recent propositions were mainly about- aside from one minor tax increase, they were about service cuts and spending caps.

[Moochy]

110. yeah because the proposition process is wonderful!!!!1111

It channels the will of the mob so effectively that the proposition industrial complex here in California just keeps churning out more unintelligible, misleading and complex propositions.

Propositions are a mainstay of the broken government out here, but these ones were merely created to give the governator cover to cut programs.

[Bluenorthwest]

116. Yeah! It is the politicians! Not the voters that elect them again and

again. CA voters put Arnold in twice. That 'minority' of yours, they were voted in by Californians, the same California voters who passed Prop H8, refuse to pay their share of taxes, and constantly elect Republicans to high office. The voters did all of that. All of it.
California voters are the sort of people who spend time and money to make sure minorities they don't like do not have equal rights, while they can not even afford to educate their own kids nor care for their own poor and elderly.
At least you got Prop 8 in place before the crash. Priorities and all of that.

[ContinentalOp]

138. There are a TON of conservatives here.

Nobody is denying that. They are a minority in the legislature though and since we need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes or pass a budget they consistently hold the process hostage year after year and refuse to budge. THAT is not the fault of the millions of liberal voters in CA.

[xxqqqzme]

126. Thank you for putting the May 19

'special election' in focus. You are so right.

[sce56]

29. Steal from cities budgets! This is a snowball effect that will make it even worse!

Borrow gas tax revenues from cities

$744 million

$745 million

[KamaAina]

35. Time for a "Total Recall".

Seriesly. As it happens, I'm going to Sac next Saturday for a conference. By the time I get there, I expect Der Gropenfuhrer to be gone. 'Kay?

[MilesColtrane]

37. It seems he knows this scene by heart:

The evening arrived; the poor children of California took their places. The master, in his Governator's uniform, stationed himself at the copper; his Republican assistants ranged themselves behind him; the gruel was served out; and a long grace was said over the short commons. The gruel disappeared; the children whispered each other, and winked at Oliver; while his next neighbors nudged him. Child as he was, he was desperate with hunger, and reckless with misery. He rose from the table; and advancing to the master, basin and spoon in hand, said: somewhat alarmed at his own temerity:

'Please, sir, I want some more.'

The master was a flabby, large-headed man; but he turned very pale. He gazed in stupefied astonishment on the small rebel for some seconds, and then clung for support to the copper. The assistants were paralysed with wonder; the boys with fear.

'Vhat!' said the master at length, in a faint voice.

'Please, sir,' replied Oliver, 'I want some more.'

The master aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arm; and shrieked aloud for the beadle.

The board were sitting in solemn conclave, when Mr. Norquist rushed into the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentleman in the high chair, said,

'Mr. Nooorquist, I beg your pahdon, zir! Olivah Tweest has ahsked for mo-wore!'

There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.

'For more!' said Mr. Norquist. 'Compose yourself, Schwarzenegger, and answer me distinctly. Do I understand that he asked for more, after he had eaten the supper allotted by the dietary?'

'He deed, zir,' replied Schwarzenegger.

'That boy will be hung,' said the gentleman in the white waistcoat. 'I know that boy will be hung.'

[DerekJ]

43. Did you write this?

[MilesColtrane]

76. Just an attempt to satirize the Dickens out of that meathead Ahnold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Twist

[Dogmudgeon]

48. Bravo, Mr. Trane. Well done; well done indeed!

IOW: Nailed it!

:thumbsup:

--d!

[Riverman]

39. two words: Disaster Capitalism!

[shanti]

40. just like *ush

the repuke's plan for cali has been to destroy it. and like *ush, it appears that they are getting their desire. the next governor will be like obama, cleaning up the mess that was left. :(

[slay]

41. Become the first state to LEGALIZE AND TAX MARIJUANA! Tax it huge!

It's a weed, it will grow anywhere. They could undercut all dealers while still taxing it at a rate of probably 100%. Do it Arnold - for the love of California and pot smokers everywhere - DO IT!!!! :hippie: :evilgrin:

[WriteDown]

118. If you tax it HUGE...

won't a black market just pop up? :shrug:

[ozu]

140. Yes

Legalization and huge taxes would just encourage home growing. Reasonable taxes wouldn't.

[defendandprotect]

47. Schwarzenner is a nazi -- heaven forbid they should increase corporate taxes - !!!

Stop bailing out corrupt capitalism . . . move on!

[farmboxer]

50. Bet he won't cut corporate welfare

Corporate welfare is one kind of welfare Republicans love.

[bjobotts]

51. Overburden so they can drown it in the bathtub by lowering tax rates on wealthies

[bjobotts]

52. Always cut the social programs for the poor rather than rolling back Reagan tax cuts

[bjobotts]

53. How about rolling back th tax cuts first on corporations and wealthiest Americans

[bjobotts]

54. Tarrifs and tax fines on outsourcing so wages go up. There are many alternatives

[bjobotts]

55. But they lead to the same conclusions. The disparity between rich and poor in California

[bjobotts]

56. Welcome to the California corporatocracy and police state made possible with Chinese slave labor

[durablend]

98. Norquist is creaming his pants

Probably never thought in his wildest dreams it would become a reality

[SleeplessinSoCal]

57. This is a disaster because nobody wants to pay for anything anymore.

Grey Davis tried to do something, but they tossed him out for raising taxes. We're all in search of freebies. The Internet and most of its content is free. Music is free. Musicians aren't paid. Newspapers are going broke. Everybody is going broke!

I see many libertarians coming face to face with their wildest dreams. And they will become nightmares as homeless wander the streets and illness spreads because no treatment is provided. Our parks becoming either private dwelling places or out of bounds to the public isn't going to sit well with even California's Republicans.

Time to pay the piper. Way past time.

[martymar64]

155. I predict L.A. will burn again within a year.

I was there the last time it burned and this is much worse. It will burn and how.

[Strawman]

167. You're absolutely right

[XemaSab]

59. Heckuva job...

:banghead:

[PatSeg]

61. If you read the entire article,

it suggests that this is a political stunt by Arnold to jar the lawmakers into some kind of constructive action. It is a typical Arnold-type maneuver - shock and awe. He tends to lean to the dramatic.

There obviously will be cutbacks in some areas, but this proposal is just that, a PROPOSAL meant to get the kind of reaction seen here.

[ContinentalOp]

63. True, there was a big uproar a year or so ago about his plan to cut 20% of state parks.

So now it's 80% and maybe they'll actually cut 20% like he proposed before.

[PatSeg]

69. I am no fan of Arnold,

but I have to admit that California is a very difficult state to govern. Unfortunately he tries to get his way by bullying and threatening. His tactic may work, but there has to be a better way. Hopefully Gavin Newsom will replace this big thug.

[slackmaster]

108. Exactly right, and people keep falling for it

:nuke:

[ContinentalOp]

62. This is payback. He's getting his revenge for his props not passing.

That was supposed to be his big victory and now his legacy is screwed and he has nothing to lose so he's sending a big fuck you to the people of CA.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

65. I checked and all the liberal leaning papers endorsed the measures and right leaners said no.

[farmboxer]

71. Plutocracy at work.

Never allow anyone to tell you America is a democracy, it clearly is not, it's a plutocracy!

[xxqqqzme]

127. Maybe the papers did but groups did not.

We had a representative from the League of Women Voters at our DFA meeting before the special election. The League endorsed none of the props and was neutral on 'F' I think.

[XemaSab]

72. And just for yuks, here are some of the better known state parks:

Andrew Molera, Angel Island, Ano Nuevo, Anzo Borrego, Asilomar, Big Basin, Bodie, Bolsa Chica Beach, Calaveras Big Trees, California State Railroad Museum, Carpenteria Beach, Castaic Lake, Castle Crags, China Camp, Donner Memorial, El Presidio de Santa Barbara, Empire Mine, Folsom Lake, Fort Ross, Fort Tejon, Half Moon Bay Beach, Hearst Castle, Humboldt Redwoods, Huntington Beach, Lake Oroville, Lake Perris, Leo Carillo, Malakoff Diggins (if you haven't been, you HAVE to go), Malibu Lagoon, Marshall Gold Discovery, McArthur-Burney Falls, Millerton Lake, Mono Lake Tufa, Morro Bay, Moss Landing, Mount Diablo, Mount San Jacinto, Mount Tamalpais, Natural Bridges, Oceano Dunes, Old Sacramento, Old Town San Diego, Pacifica Beach, Palomar Mountain, Pfeiffer Big Sur, Pigeon Point, Placerita Canyon, Plumas-Eureka, Point Dume, Point Mugu, Prairie Creek Redwoods, Salton Sea, Samuel P. Taylor, San Elijo, San Juan Bautista, San Luis Reservoir, San Onofre, Santa Cruz Mission, Santa Monica Beach, Old Shasta, State Indian Museum, Sutter Buttes, Sutter's Fort, Tahoe State Recreation Area, Tomales Bay, Topanga, Torrey Pines, Tule Elk, Watts Towers, Weaverville Joss House, Will Rogers, Ide Adobe, and the Woodland Opera House, among many, many, many others.

There are 281 parks all told, so all but 57 would be closed. I listed about 70, and I'm sure there are LOTS of terrific parks that I don't know about. But if they closed all but 57, 13 on the list would be closed. :(

What a downer. :(

[Riverman]

112. Close Parks! Step toward the California Corporate Colony?

Counterproductive to Close Parks in drought years! Unintended or Intended Consequences?

No visitor activity, no parks maintenance, no rain - the perfect storm! Firestorms will consume the closed parks and the neighborhing private lands. The destroyed parks will be clear-cut by private interest under some made-up "public benefit" pretext. The publically owned clear cut land will be auctioned off to private interests to "fix" the state budget crises.

The parks are where people go for respite, to get out of the cities and life-sucking burbs! Without places to escape to for just and afternoon will increase tensions in cities. People already hurting from extended unemployment, young people who cannot find jobs, likely cities will explode into reactive violence. Gov will have justification to send the National Guard into cities and will soon become overwhelmed and then call in the military - who have been training for urban violence in the US. Massive arrests will fill the state prisons - already over-crowed and under court order to provide adequate medical care. More pre-text - "fix" budget crises and "demand for prison space"for Gov Arnold to auction-off prison sites - San Quentin listed recently! Private interests will benefit from taxpayer public investment! Bingo! Disaster Capitalism in play - over and over again - remember Katrina?

The Plan that started at least with Enron - rolling blackouts, pre-text created for a crises, electorate whipped into frenzy and blamed former Gov Grey Davis with recall, Cheney's staff helps Arnold get elected (Arnold attended some of those infamous energy meetings Cheney held), Arnold presides over the next phase of the collapse! Now he cuts programs for the poor, creating more customers for the Prison-Industrial Complex.

Welcome to the California Corporate Colony!

[hedgehog]

150. Do some of those parks bring in out-of-state tourist revenue?

[ContinentalOp]

158. Sure they do. And you can't really keep people out.

So we just won't be collecting parking or camping fees from any of them? :shrug: nice move.

[XemaSab]

159. Maybe not Ide Adobe

;)

[happygoluckytoyou]

75. CLASS WARFARE IS ON!!!! TIME FOR THE WEALTHY TO BUY THE PARKS

[zoff]

78. I say ban all middle class and lower income families

from California. The Great Cali Bailout Plan : One-time payout for all these families to move out. Homeowners get paid more. The rich can have California all to themselves. No more nannies and gardeners. Let them cook and clean for themselves. Let them harvest their own fruits and vegetables and press their own wine. No mexicans or working immigrants allowed. No more mall workers. Let them pay as little taxes and see what kind of services they get. No working class allowed, EVER.

That or all of california can deal with the backlash of such inhumanity.

[Jeep789]

82. This will go over well

:sarcasm: Especially, in the light, of so many (used to be) middle income folks losing their jobs and turning to the safety net that no longer exists. Not to mention the new loss of jobs from city and state workers and the contracted private workers. The downward spiral continues!!

[liberal N proud]

85. Hard core Republican wet dream

Cut out any help to those who need it and close government parks.

The poor become poorer, if that is possible.

The state parks would probably become surplus property and potentially be sold to the highest bidder for private development.

[Hubert Flottz]

86. Typical republican MO...

"drop 1 million poor children" Bullies ALWAYS, attack those who are least able to fight back. Take the case of Bush invading Iraq, who didn't really have WMD but who's military was almost wiped out already, instead of North Korea or Iran who do have WMD but who have the power to fight back.

Arnold is just like the rest of the GOP. Always was, always will be.

[and-justice-for-all]

87. California is rolling off the cliff...nt

[Vidar]

91. Time for revolution perhaps?

[mod mom]

92. Is this a way that Arnold will try to get poor people to move to other states?

[slackmaster]

146. Yes, I'm sure that's it

There are plenty of vacant houses in New Orleans.

[KamaAina]

168. Years ago, CA and other states would put the chronically homeless on a plane out here

with a one-way ticket, of course.

We are in no position to absorb a similar influx today. :scared:

[iamthebandfanman]

94. 'weve done a shitty job as elected officials!'

'lets punish the poor for it!'


great logic there Arnold.

[Dappleganger]

95. The poor should all move to Utah

and completely overwhelm them.

[texastoast]

96. This shows to go ya

The government is not your friend, no matter who is in office. You can never count on any government to feed you, house you, or take care of your illness. It's just too tenuous a faith. I'd be collecting some canning jars. And not having any more babies. Maybe times will get better down the road, but surely not now.

[tomreedtoon]

99. Congratulations, California recall voters.

Even we people in Florida, whose ineffectual and vapid Democratic party let Bush take the White House, have someone we can laugh at now.

The country looked at the recall of your former governor like the circus it was. You ran a former bad TV star, an actor who played a robot and a mercenary killer, a billboard model and probably some family's backyard goat in that election. It was a typical California choice of style over content, and so you got a good-looking bubblehead to lead your state.

Now you have no welfare program, no state parks and no hope. The rich and powerful who were your idols, whom you looked up to as their limos went driving by, have shown what they truly feel about you. Congratulations, you've earned it. What's in your wallet? Nothing!

[Moochy]

111. Stupid Californians

Worst of all, No Hope!!! :(

[tomreedtoon]

142. The idiots Floridians elect TRY not to look like idiots.

Former "Governor Duuuuh" Jeb Bush at least looked better than his brother. Current Governor Charlie "Jesus" Crist was no dumber than any other state governor.

But seriously...Gary Coleman? Schwartzenegger? Carrot Top? That goat I mentioned? Everyone east of the San Andreas Fault knew this election would be pathetic...although few of us guessed it would also be tragic.

[ContinentalOp]

139. Uh, pretty rich coming from a Floridian.

The Enron-backed CA coup is almost directly analogous to the stolen election in 2000.

[eringer]

100. I guess it was just time to send the Hillbillies home

[feslen]

102. so why doesn't

Jerk Wad raise taxes for oil companies, corporations, rich-elites, instead of closing ....

oh yeah, he's a rethug controlled by the heartless conservative morons.

[scentopine]

103. After bailing out ultra-rich, republicans seek to punish children

Wow! Do we love the rich or what? Until we take to the streets in mass protest, the rich will continue to move the rest of us into servitude. Privatization of parks? Imagine what hell will come from that. How about naming rights for parks? :sarcasm:

[XemaSab]

162. Naming rights for parks? That's a great idea!

Betty Crocker's Angel Food Island. Kohler Big Basin Redwoods. Hungry Man Donner Memorial. Carpeteria Beach. Spode China Camp. Fort Ross Dress for Less. Lake Ore-Ida. Smirnoff Diggins. Malibu Rum Lagoon. Cash4Gold Discovery. White Wave Tufa. Pfizer Big Sur. Shasta Cola State Historic Park. Cache Creek Casino Indian Museum. Chevy Tahoe State Recreation Area. General Electric Watts Towers.

And so many more...

[slackmaster]

106. Same tired old threats, different day

:eyes:

[hunter]

123. California leads the nation...

...down the drain.

[GReedDiamond]

124. As long as the Gropenator keeps open those tax loopholes for...

...corporations and the rich, what else can he do? He's only "human" (or perhaps CGI).

After all, it's very unfair to the wealthy to put a luxury tax on a yacht purchase. Why should the rich have to pay for some poor kid's health care at the expense of increasing the cost of a yacht?

Do this post really need a "sarcasm" tag?

[dugaresa]

131. Perhaps this is a good thing in disguise

for some reason there are a lot of adults who don't seem to understand how things are paid for like roads, schools, etc.

They seem to believe that some magic money tree pays for stuff and it doesn't. A civilized society understands that taxes make things happen in a community.

So sometimes people need to be reminded that without money, the government can't provide the services they come to depend upon.

Why people never learn this lesson, I will never know.

[BrotherBuzz]

132. Remove industrial and commercial property protected under Proposition 13

Simple, no? Well, not exactly. State voters would have to approve a constitutional amendment to Proposition 13 to allow a split tax roll. Under Proposition 13, which passed in 1978, all property assessments were rolled back to 1975 values.

If California citizens were to allow industrial and commercial property to be taxed at 1 percent of market value, the state would reap about $3.3 billion more tax dollars, says a new report from the UC Davis Center for State and Local Taxation.

"We were asked to look at how much money the state loses by keeping industrial and commercial property under the current Proposition 13 limitations," said UC Davis economics professor Steven M. Sheffrin, co-author of the study and director of the UC Davis taxation center. "Many think the Proposition 13 protection is more appropriate for homeowners."

Subsequent assessments could increase only by a maximum of 2 percent per year until the property was sold, at which time it would be reassessed at market value.

The UC Davis report points out that property values have increased on average faster than 2 percent per year, and the current assessed value of real property in California is significantly below market value.

"Hence property-tax revenues statewide are significantly less than what would be collected if property were assessed at market value," the report says.

<more>

http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=6276

[katty]

136. Amen to that!

[slackmaster]

137. I'm a rabid supporter of the Prop. 13 controls on residential property taxes, and I agree

Industrial and commercial properties should be treated differently.

But lack of revenue is not the whole problem. We have a legislature that pisses away everything they take in and more.

I have to run a responsible budget for my own personal finances. I expect my elected represenatatives to do the same for the state.

[pinniped]

152. I bet that asshole has plans to sell off all the parks.

F him.

[kitty1]

165. So all those rich cosmetically enhanced Californians.....

are left alone, while the poor who are on welfare will be left to fend for themselves.
Arnold doesn't want to take away from his buddy's coffers. It's always the people on the lowest rung of the economic chain who take the brunt of these kind of cuts.
Why don't they cap the salaries on some of those obscenely wealthy people out there.

[ohio2007]

166. cut in other states force citizens to take action ( California isn't the only trend setter)

As budgets get cut around the country, reactions will result in front page breaking news stories soon.

Toledo police layoffs leading to gun buying

TOLEDO, OH (WTOL) - The first round of Toledo police layoffs, in which 75 officers were let go, may already be having an affect on gun ownership.

"I just don't feel safe with the amount they're laying off," says Jonna Ewing. "I think it's going to be a longer respond time."

She is spending the day at a conceal carry class. She's been thinking of getting a gun for awhile, but feels now's the time due to the recent layoffs.

She's not alone. Case in point, someone in Jonna's class wears one those infamous police t-shirts: "I called 911 and all I got was this lousy garbage can" that showed up soon after the TPD cuts.

People are panicking, they're figuring the only way they can protect themselves is for them to protect themselves," says Urbanski. "So yeah, my business is booming."

Urbanski says since the presidential election and the collapse of the economy, people have become more interested in owning guns.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=10415019

If they weren't so close to Detroit, would this really happen ?