FBI Whistleblower Testimony: Gonzales Imposed Brutal Interrogation Tactics

[sabra]

Source: ABC News

Ali Soufan Also To Testify CIA Torture Program Architect Was Unqualified

As President Bush's top lawyer, Alberto Gonzales pressed counterterror officials to use brutal interrogation techniques on terror suspect Abu Zubaydah in 2002, even when those techniques hindered Zubaydah's cooperation, a former FBI agent who was present is expected to testify Wednesday before Congress.

In the first public testimony of anyone directly involved, former bureau agent Ali Soufan is expected to directly contradict assertions by CIA officials and former Vice President Cheney that the "enhanced interrogation techniques" were successful in prying information out of al Qaeda detainees.

Cheney has said that the CIA interrogation program that began in Thailand in 2002 "saved thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives."

...

Soufan will testify that within an hour of Abu Zubaydah's arrival at the secret prison, he was revealing parts of the 9/11 plot and had identified the mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Soufan has contended publicly that the FBI approach to interrogation had been so successful, George Tenet ordered that the gravely ill Zubaydah be kept alive.

According to a former intelligence operative at the scene, Zubaydah's confessions and intelligence collected by Soufan and Gaudin resulted in the CIA determining that "death was not an option" for the prisoner. Tenet wanted Zubaydah kept alive, and to continue talking. A top Johns Hopkins surgeon was flown in to treat Zubaydah, and the two FBI agents helped nurse the terrorist into good health. The former operative tells ABC News that the intelligence continued to flow, as Soufan interviewed Zubaydah in the hospital while tending to his recovery. But that all ended when the CIA's team of specialists and a contractor arrived to take over interrogations.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7560666&page=1

[snot]

1. k & r'd

[Titonwan]

2. Thanks to all activist here! (K&R)

Don't think for a minute that activism doesn't matter. If you just read and comment, that's not activating. You are not helping. Please consider doing something to
make this take traction. We MUST see these War Criminals prosecuted. It's OUR Country and I want it BACK.

[greiner3]

14. I'm thinking of instuting a personal goal;

To daily kick a republican. Is this something along the lines of what you propose. Your post leaves open so many opportunities and this idea of mine is just the start.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

3. more importantly. Miss California will keep her crown !

NOT.


Wonder what channel the hearing will be on.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

27. Here

http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=3842

[bdamomma]

38. thank goodness, Senator Whitehouse is presiding over this hearing.

he does not hold anything back.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

40. No kidding

thank the goddess!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

45. thanks - you're a doll. I'd better go buy some popcorn !!

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

60. Thanks!

:hi:

[pleah]

4. K&R

[Moochy]

5. "top Johns Hopkins surgeon was flown in to treat Zubaydah"

A torture-enabling doctor violated his Hippocratic oath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_torture

The Hippocratic Oath makes explicit statements against deliberate harm not in the patient's best interests. These statements are often translated as "I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgement" and "to never deliberately do harm to anyone, for anyone else's interest." (Note: these statements are formulations of the ethical principles of beneficence and non-maleficence.)

on edit emphasis added.

[thereismore]

7. He probably did not know that Gonzo will start torturing him when he gets well. nt

[never cry wolf]

9. No, this was a good doc

This was a doc flown in by the FBI to honestly get the prisoner healthy. Later on after the CIA took over the interrogation they may have brought in their own torture-enabling doctor.

[JohnWxy]

48. recommended.

[goforit]

63. Never knew this. Unphuckingbelievable !!!!.... I guess they had to keep him alive?

Why???

Bush & Cheney ARE AlQaeda..........Did it really matter whether this "terrororist lived or died???

[never cry wolf]

71. The FBI wanted him alive because he was so cooperative

Why let an asset die?

[myrna minx]

6. This is just the beginning. K&R n/t

[Mermaid7]

8. I don't know why we have allowed them to change the debate to whether the torture provided results.

Torture is just plain wrong, whether it is effective or not.

United States does not torture?

[HillWilliam]

11. From what I understand, according to the law

"it got results" is no defense. Rather, "it got results" is a direct admission of a war crime. At least that's what I got from listening to John Turley on KO last night. I expect Turley would know.

[Mermaid7]

65. Exactly, and that's the good and the bad news.

By trying to say it got good results, is in fact an very clear admission to the fact they did approve torture.

But what I still can't fathom, is how the debate has turned now from whether they approved torture, to whether or not it worked.
This is what they are trying to make the issue about.
That should not be the issue regardless if it worked or not.
This is what I'm taking exception to.

Cheney wants records released, that according to him will show, torture saved us from an attack.
While so far, what we have seen proves not to be the case...I still say it's not the issue...it's a diversion tactic, so why are not so many of us pointing this out, rather than the grounds it isn't true that it worked?

Who cares if it worked? It was frigging torture!

Torture is wrong whether it works or not.

Lets stay on track here, ...please.

[sansf]

72. see how easily the 'debate' changes:...

Of course the only response should be that torture is illegal.

But in your understandable anger you ask 'Who cares if it worked?' Moot. You would never know what is true or not.

The goal of torture is not information ... it is to terrorize until you get information you already believe or need (so as to get what your boss has told you he/she must have). That's why tapes were destroyed. Not as proof that we torture. They would prove that the info gotten was garbage.

[elleng]

73. The debate has only moved

if we credit the b.s. cheney has been spewing lately.

Torture is against our law.
Torture is usually not productive.

[HillWilliam]

76. I have never wavered

In the military, I worked alongside professional interrogators. Not only was torture spelled out CLEARLY to be illegal, they weren't allowed to touch the people they were interrogating. The logic was very simple: torture doesn't provide accurate or actionable intelligence. Torture isn't just "wrong" (of COURSE it is!! any decent human being can come to that conclusion). Torture can lead you right down a path of mistakes, missteps, dead-ends, and even suicidal actions.

Exhibit One: the current state of the invasion of Iraq.

See what I mean?

A good interrogator can ask you a few almost innocuous-seeming questions and tell you your life's story. They're some awesome, even almost scary-uncanny sharp people. The nicest ones are the sharpest. Believe me, I met quite a few in the military. The fact is -- they don't need torture to get good, actionable intelligence.

I don't give a good, bigfat goddam what Cheney or the nutfreak keyboard-commandos on the right say. They haven't been there. I have.

Torture is morally reprehensible and no decent or moral human being would ever resort to it. It is also the hallmark of amateurs, pikers, and unprofessionals who simply do not understand how intelligence-gathering works nor how to process it once they've got it.

Exhibits Two and Three: The entire Bush-II Administration and the Bush-I-infested CIA.

This shit started when Bush-I headed up the CIA. Lay it at Papi's doorstep and light it afire.

[wryter2000]

30. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Piewhacket]

10. Pretty clear that the torture wasn't about "interrogation".

It was about torture. Simple criminal reprisal by
a group of criminals holding high public office.

Indict the MFs.

[EFerrari]

16. They wanted two things. They wanted false confessions they could use.

And they wanted to scramble the memories of men who knew too much, as DUer leveymg has reported:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5638152

[sce56]

39. BINGO!

Sounds very plausible!

[EFerrari]

42. Read Mark's new piece if you have a minute. It's very well done. n/t

[Piewhacket]

70. Sure, that was the OTHER culpable reason.

Both reasons wrongful, criminal.
Two reasons then, to seek the death penalty against those who
ordered torture.

Cheney claims it provided valuable intelligence. Idiot. Scum. Animal.
He sold our country, our honor, our humanity, our blood,
for hubris, for a mess of pottage.

Hang the MF. And use an extra long rope.
Drive a stake through the corpse's heart.
Bury it all in a toxic waste dump.

I have spoken.

[glitch]

77. Exactly! Anything else is just obfuscation. Thanks for the link. nt

[goforit]

64. Right on .....It was about psychopathic perverts getting high making their fantasy reality.

[Overseas]

12. K&R with admiration for the whistleblowers. //nt

[Inuca]

13. The hearing tomorrow

with Soufan and Zelikow should be VERY interesting. I won't be able to watch :-(, hopefully a replay sometime.

[EFerrari]

18. Sometimes CSPAN puts those videos up on their website.

If not, maybe L Coyote or someone will catch it and put it up here. :hi:

[Inuca]

56. Yeah, Iknow, BUT

I cannot watch more than a few minutes online, I have a lousy satellite service and it penalizes me to a crawl after only 200MB/day. And THAT'S what I pay $60/month for!!!!

[EFerrari]

57. Yikes. I finally went with ATT broadband and only pay $40 or so.

Of course, the NSA puts it all on my Permanent Record.

[Solly Mack]

15. K&R

[EFerrari]

19. It's a measure of how corrupt this whole thing was that

the FBI turn out to be the good guys. :shrug:

[Solly Mack]

20. The FBI knew that when the poop hit the fan they didn't want to take a hit

on the use of torture.

Which tells me - and should tell everyone - that no one in the interrogation business was ignorant of the fact that torture was taking place.

And all of them knew that torture - regardless how it is dressed up - is illegal.

That said...it would well be worth knowing the exact time-line (and all instances) of the FBI "clean teams" coming in to "cleanse" evidence gained by torture. There's just something less than decent about coming in after the torture has taken place and interrogating people who have been tortured - then calling the evidence gained legitimate. I'm talking the full scope of FBI involvement. Not addressing the case (Zubaydah) related in the article. Point being - I'm not exactly sure I'm willing to call them the good guys just yet.

I know clean teams were used on the so-called "911" detainees after they were tortured (2006)...and also Binyam Mohamed (2004)

So...when did the FBI start sending in clean teams to try dress up so-called evidence gained by torture?

[EFerrari]

28. That's an excellent point. I hadn't realized that they went in that way.

Oh, geeze.

[EFerrari]

37. Solly Mack, question: Do you have a good grip on the Congressional leaders

who are routinely briefed on classified material? I know it's the Speaker, the minority leader & their cognates in the Senate; the chair and ranking members of the House & Senate Intel Committees. But, isn't is also the chair and ranking members of the Armed Services Committees?

I'm asking because, it was John Warner that chaired the Taguba Hearings in May 2004.

[Solly Mack]

44. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence consists of

(A) two members from the Committee on Appropriations;
(B) two members from the Committee on Armed Services;
(C) two members from the Committee on Foreign Relations;
(D) two members from the Committee on the Judiciary; and
(E) not to exceed seven members to be appointed from the
Senate at large


B) The Chairman and Ranking Member of the Committee on
Armed Services (if not already a member of the select
Committee) shall be ex officio members of the select
Committee

Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for 2004, for example
http://intelligence.senate.gov/press/releases.cfm?year=2004&congress=108&y1=2003&y2=2004


Is that what you're asking? (on just who was within the potential briefing circle in Congress?)

Here's the House select committee on intelligence from 2005 - it also has various members from various committees to include the house armed services committee

House Rules
House Rule X, clause 11 addresses the creation, membership, and jurisdiction of the
Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
! Clause 11(a)(1) establishes the select committee and states that the panel
should have no more than 18 members, of whom no more than 10 may
be from the same party. Further, the Committees on Appropriations,
Armed Services, International Relations, and the Judiciary should each
have at least one Member serving on the select committee.1

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/intel/RS22123.pdf

[EFerrari]

49. Yes! Thanks! This was their membership in 2004:

2003-2004
Republicans
Democrats
Pat Roberts,
Kansas
Chairman John D. Rockefeller IV,
West Virginia
Vice Chairman
Orrin G. Hatch, Utah Carl Levin, Michigan
Mike DeWine, Ohio Dianne Feinstein, California
Christopher S. Bond, Missouri Ron Wyden, Oregon
Trent Lott, Mississippi Richard Durbin, Illinois
Olympia J. Snowe, Maine Evan Bayh, Indiana
Chuck Hagel, Nebraska John Edwards, North Carolina
Saxby Chambliss, Georgia Barbara Mikulski, Maryland
John Warner, Virginia


Bill Frist, Tennessee, Ex Officio
Thomas A. Daschle, South Dakota, Ex Officio



Now, the Senate Armed Services Committee that round, the people who held the Taguba hearings:

FULL COMMITTEE MEMBERS

REPUBLICANS

John Warner (Virginia)
Chairman

John McCain (Arizona)
James M. Inhofe (Oklahoma)
Pat Roberts (Kansas)
Wayne Allard (Colorado)
Jeff Sessions (Alabama)
Susan M. Collins (Maine)
John Ensign (Nevada)
James M. Talent (Missouri)
Saxby Chambliss (Georgia)
Lindsey O. Graham (South Carolina)
Elizabeth Dole (North Carolina)
John Cornyn (Texas)


DEMOCRATS

Carl Levin (Michigan)
Ranking Member

Edward M. Kennedy (Massachusetts)
Robert C. Byrd (West Virginia)
Joseph I. Lieberman (Connecticut)
Jack Reed (Rhode Island)
Daniel K. Akaka (Hawaii)
Bill Nelson (Florida)
E. Benjamin Nelson (Nebraska)
Mark Dayton (Minnesota)
Evan Bayh (Indiana)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (New York)
Mark Pryor (Arkansas)

----------------------

So, the overlap is Levin, Bayh, Roberts and Warner, with Rockefeller only sitting on the Select Committee.

What do you think the chances are that Warner was not briefed in 2002? I'd say I have a better chance of beng revirginized than he had of not being briefed on the torture program.

[Solly Mack]

50. I'd bet good money he was briefed

[defendandprotect]

22. Yes, and even the CIA, of course, has its well-intentioned members . . .

some have not discovered the true CIA intent until much later--

[DCKit]

52. They psychopaths know who the "Boy Scouts" are.

Their continued employment, even their survival, depends on being able to read decent people in order to do and say the right things in order to avoid detection. Of course the goody-two-shoes, genuine patriots or those with morals and ethics weren't informed, kept in the loop or involved in any way. They would have ruined the party.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

17. My guess

This torture was to provide cover for the Bush admin pre-emptively invading Iraq. They needed cover for the war they wanted. They needed these guys to connect 9/11 to Iraq. They tortured these guys until they got what they wanted.

[Old Time Pagan]

53. This is the real reason for the torture

That combined with a vicious sadistic streak in "Blow up Frogs" Bush, "Shoot your Friend in the Face" Cheney and "Scary" Alberto Gonzales.

If they were REALLY looking for information there are all sorts of chemical interrogation substances that cause ANYBODY to sing like a canary.
Nope, these guys were looking to get their jollies AND to provide justification for their illegal invasion by forcing these guys to say just want was needed.

Emperor George and the evil Darth Cheney are no different then the fiends back in the middle ages who acquired lands and possessions by arresting those that had what they coveted and then tortured them till they confessed to anything just to make the torment end.

Too bad that some things never seem to change.

[shadowknows69]

21. Ok, so for the GAZILLIONTH time I'll ask

WHY ISN'T ANYONE IN JAIL YET????

[davidhilton1]

36. i ask that too.

thats what i wanna know shadow...y isnt anyone in jail? my answer is "they're above the law" plain and simple...

[defendandprotect]

23. "Cheney has said that the CIA interrogation program that began in Thailand in 2002"...??????

WTH does that mean?

Are they saying Thailand was our first "rendition" location?

Or that we were torturing Thailanders?

[sabra]

26. Thailand was our first "rendition" location

[defendandprotect]

43. Thank y ou -- even more evidence that we need to remove ALL of our troops/intelligence

from every nation -- nothing but shameless perversions by CIA out there -- !!!

Notably also the Golden Triangle.

[jgraz]

24. I can't wait until that little toad is behind bars

[truebrit71]

25. He will sing like a canary a long, LONG time before that happens...

..either that or he'll have an "accident"...

[wryter2000]

29. Hmmmm ABC

Will we hear this on the news tonight?

Until this stuff is on the teevee, it might as well not exist.

[winyanstaz]

47. Its a New Age...tv is dying because they don't tell the truth....

The news is now to be found on the www..Television is sooo last century and they did it to themselves along with the Newspapers.
Thats what happens when you allow the News to be "privatized".

[90-percent]

31. Helpful info for torture debate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=307187&mesg_id=307187

This Democracy Now video is helpful with much profound knowledge on American Torture. (hmm, sounds like a new Discovery Channel reality show!)

-90% Jimmy

[90-percent]

34. SADISM

this was

SADISM FOR IT'S OWN SAKE!

Almost makes one wonder if Bush and Cheney and Gonzo all masturbated to the torture tapes together?

Or maybe they took turns enjoying the TORTURE THEATRE in private?

-90% Jimmy

[Mermaid7]

67. You Know That's Really Kind of Grossly Said...

And pretty much closer to the truth than any of us really want to imagine.
But I can actually see them drolling and gloating over the wicked deeds they thought they pulled off.
Torturing human beings, in order to perpetuate their lies, and enjoying their perversities along their very merry way.
A sick bunch for sure, who would stoop to a level below all of humanity.

[kpete]

32. FBI Agent's Account of Interrogations Conflicts With Report

Source: Washington Independent

FBI Agent's Account of Interrogations Conflicts With Report
Tuesday 12 May 2009
by: Spencer Ackerman |

As former FBI agent Ali Soufan prepares to testify publicly for the first time about the FBI's role in the torture policies of the Bush administration, some aspects of his testimony are already clear. Torture doesn't work, Soufan wrote in a high-profile New York Times op-ed in late April, and he knows because he, as part of the team interrogating al-Qaeda detainee Abu Zubaydah "from March to June 2002," got reliable information out of him "before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August." Alongside accounts of FBI agents resisting torture at Guantanamo Bay and with another al-Qaeda detainee named Ibn Shaikh al-Libi, Soufan's account has gone a long way toward portraying the FBI as a lonely institutional outpost of opposition to harsh interrogations.

The truth, according to a 400-page Justice Department inspector general's report, released in May 2008, is more complicated. According to the report, the FBI did frequently refuse to lend support to abusive interrogations. But FBI officials did take part in interrogations where abuse occurred, even after senior FBI officials issued orders against agents participating in detainee interrogation sessions that went beyond the FBI's traditional non-physical style of eliciting information. And the report reveals some discrepancies from the account Soufan gave - and which he may be asked about in his testimony before a Senate Judiciary subcommittee on Wednesday morning.

Soufan's account does not entirely match up with the inspector general's, both in terms of the timeline he gave, and his participation in a subsequent interrogation that went beyond traditional FBI interrogation techniques. He wrote in his op-ed that "the harsh techniques" used on Abu Zubaydah - such as waterboarding, to which Abu Zubaydah was subjected 83 times, according to a recently-declassified 2005 Justice Department memorandum - only occurred in August 2002, after "I objected to the enhanced techniques" and was subsequently withdrawn from the interrogation by senior FBI management.

The inspector general's report tells a somewhat different story. Using the pseduonyms "Thomas" and "Gibson," it gives the account of two agents who participated in Abu Zubaydah's interrogation during its early phase, which occurred at a CIA facility, most likely in Thailand. ("Thomas" is most likely Soufan.) FBI headquarters evidently knew that the interrogations would not result in a criminal prosecution of Abu Zubaydah, which is the typical outcome of FBI interrogations, as their supervisor informed the two agents not to Mirandize him, and to "leave the (CIA-run) facility and call Headquarters" if the CIA - which had custody of the detainee - "began using techniques that gave the agents discomfort." The report corroborates Soufan's account that "relationship-building techniques" with the detainee, - going so far as personally administering medical care when Abu Zubaydah still required it for injuries sustained in his capture - resulted in Abu Zubaydah positively identifying Khalid Shaikh Muhammed as the architect of the 9/11 attacks.

Read more: http://washingtonindependent.com/42481/fbi-agents-account-of-interrogations-conflicts-with-report

[Solly Mack]

33. K&R

[NoodleyAppendage]

35. KICK. We MUST hold these WAR CRIMINALS and SADISTS accountable! No wavering. n/t

J

[Stinger2]

41. Rove, Telling about Torture is Bad, Not the Torture Itself, Fox News 5/11/09

Rove, Telling about Torture is Bad, Not the Torture Itself. Fox News 5/11/09

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," May 11, 2009. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


VAN SUSTEREN: All right, switch gears. Former vice president Dick Cheney over the weekend and the last couple weeks has been talking about how under the new administration that -- I don't mean to put words in his mouth, but I guess I'm going to do so now -- is that -- is that we're at greater risk under the new administration than the old administration. How do we know that?

ROVE: Because he understands intimately the kinds of changes that have been made and how these are going to affect our ability to collect actionable intelligence that allows us to break up these plots before they are launched, and I frankly agree with the vice president on this. I think Vice President Cheney has made a reasoned, thoughtful series of observations about how doing things -- well, let me give you just one example.
Taking, for example, the memoranda about the enhanced interrogation techniques and making them public has been a value to our enemy. They have -- it has served, frankly, I think, as a recruiting tool. They can now take these memoranda and go to prospective, you know, recruits and say, This is the worst that the enemy, the United States, would ever do to you, and they've even forsworn these things. We can help you, prepare you to deal with these things, but even the enemy is so weak they're not going to use these techniques on you.

And it's given them a tool to make it more attractive to recruit people, and you know, this kind of thing is harmful to us over the long haul. I mean, if the enemy thinks that we're going to deal with them toughly and severely -- and they've got to know -- they've got to know that these methods have yielded an enormous amount of intelligence which has allowed us to break up their networks -- I mean, even the director of national intelligence under President Obama acknowledges that these techniques yielded vast amounts of information that allowed us to stop these attacks. And if you do that, if you stop using these techniques and -- it gives -- it makes the world a less safe place for America and our allies.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519872,00.html



Rove in short was saying Torture OK telling about Torture Bad, Telling about Torture is Bad and a Recruiting value to our enemy, this is insane! Like torturing wasn’t the problem it’s talking about torture or prosecuting torture is the problem.

Rove is Insane !!!!!!!

[PufPuf23]

59. Most of our "enemies" are because we have attacked,

subverted, or otherwise messed with their nations and lives and because our culture is a military Empire.

We have had such opportunity to forward ourselves and be a world leader but the bullies are in charge.

The Military-Industrial-Financial Complex has been and is out of control.

Torture affectianatos are criminal perverts. They broke people to get the answers to justify their aggressive actions.

Rove = bile puke

[FourScore]

46. WOW. K&R. n/t

[bdamomma]

51. If anyone wants to thank Senator Whitehouse and keep him

focused on this--- contact him here:

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/webreturn/?url=http://whitehouse.senate.gov

[defendandprotect]

54. "Beware of those with a strong urge to punish" . . .!!!

[KansDem]

55. K&R!!!

[Hubert Flottz]

58. It's about time somebody remembered what Gonzo was up to.

Alberto couldn't remember where he shat last...had a mind like a 95 year old.

Some quiet time in solitary confinement waiting on his well deserved date with the hangman might jog his memory.

[santamargarita]

61. Can't wait to hear more...

:popcorn:

[clarence swinney]

62. TORTURE STOP BLARNEY BLABBERING

One Question no further discussion

DID THEY BREAK A LAW?

NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

Why do Democrats contiunue to get into traps of distraction

Torture saved lives.

Bank robber robbed to pAy for operation saved a life. Go free?

LAW BROKEN?

[MasonJar]

66. Ali Soufan is a hero; The FBI has been honorable as a whole in this

nefarious and dishonorable segment of American history. They have not stood by and they have refused to participate. Kudos to this incredible group of patriots.

[Wednesdays]

68. K&R

:kick:

[sellitman]

69. What happened to the "just a few bad apples" story?

You mean they lied?

[livefreest]

74. i hope Dick Cheney keeps talking

[olegramps]

75. Cheney and his ilk are devious bastards.

The major problem is that the majority of Americans are willing to justify torture. Cheney and his gang of fascists are going to use this basic lack of ethics by the majority of Americans to justify their actions.

This is a major flaw in the character of the majority of Americans today which I attribute to the failure of our school system and religious institutions to instill basic ethics. Sadly we see the massive failure of our religious leaders evidenced by the fact that the majority of people who profess to be Christians share the same moral bankruptcy.

When you accept the concept that the ends justify the means, you have totally lost your moral compass. The entirety of Jesus' teaching is centered on your ethical conduct with your fellow mankind regardless if they were your friend or enemy. It appears to me that the majority of Americans are willing to sell their soul as the price of a little false security. Germany went down this same road to a bitter end under Hitler and his propagandists who preached the same message.