Germany to ban cultivation of Monsanto GMO maize

[cal04]

Source: Reuters

Germany will ban cultivation and sale of genetically modified (GMO) maize despite European Union rulings that the biotech grain is safe, its government said on Tuesday.

The ban affects U.S. biotech company Monsanto's <MON.N> MON 810 maize which may no longer be sown for this summer's harvest, German Agriculture and Consumer Protection Minister Ilse Aigner told a news conference.

The move puts Germany alongside France, Austria, Hungary, Greece and Luxembourg which have banned MON 810 maize despite its approval by the EU for commercial use throughout the bloc.

"I have come to the conclusion that there is a justifiable reason to believe that genetically modified maize of the type MON 810 presents a danger to the environment," Aigner said, stressing the five other EU states have taken the same action.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LE218443.htm

---

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,618913,00.html
Germany has banned the cultivation of GM corn, claiming that MON 810 is dangerous for the environment. But that argument might not stand up in court and Berlin could face fines totalling millions of euros if American multinational Monsanto decides to challenge the prohibition on its seed.

[mod mom]

1. I'd love to see the US follow suit! rec'd

[lovuian]

22. soon if Americans don't change their brands

they will have no buyers for their crops

[DrDan]

2. Good for Germany!!!!!!!

and France, Austria, Hungary, Greecce and Luxembourg.

[Cha]

98. Smart countries..now the world

has to join against the fascist frankenfood's toxic seed.

[pleah]

3. K&R

[LaurenG]

4. I hope they stick to it!

:kick:

[SpiralHawk]

5. "Hip Hip Hoooray!" - Human Beings

"We choose to exercise our basic human right to eat clean food, and not to be surreptitiously served no steenkin mutant facsimile chem-saturated, occultly-masked GMO food-product clone crapola."

- Human Beings

[tabatha]

6. Great!

Thank goodness there is the rest of the world to put brakes on Monsanto. Monsanto should be put out of business.

[LiberalFighter]

7. The EU needs to ban it too. And if they refuse then the current leader needs to be fired.

[dipsydoodle]

23. Doesn' work quite like that

current leader is a rotating figurehead - no more than that.

[progressoid]

8. Nazis!!1!

Never pass up a chance for a Nazi post! :)

[Kaleko]

41. Meanwhile, the rest of the world speaks the same way about Americans...

"Ignorant, dumbfuck Americans... never pass up the chance to demonstrate their media-induced trance."

[No More Bushbots]

43. But Xylon B is still legal!

* rimshot *
:hide:

[jmowreader]

85. Why wouldn't it be?

Would you ban gasoline because people use it in arson? Zyklon B (it's now called Uragan D2) is a very effective fumigant.

[livefreest]

104. they should think of cuter names

[jmowreader]

133. They picked a really good name for it

Uragan means "hurricane" in Czech. Zyklon means "cyclone" in German--and they're just two names for the same storm--one which tends to kill everything in front of it, like this product does.

[truedelphi]

9. This is great news. Go Ilse!

Sometimes people have to do what is right, and worry about the court case later on.

California banned MTBE, as it was a major health risk, and was getting into the water supply. The state had to pay millions of dollars to some MTBE outfit in Canada, but in the long run, better to have safe drinking water than to worry over the court case.

[bvar22]

10. ALL GM crops have been banned....

...from our little hilltop in Arkansas along with all non-natural pesticides and herbicides.


bvar22 & Starkraven salute the Germans for taking the lead in Europe.
:patriot:

[Wednesdays]

11. Woo-hoo! I shop at ALDI all the time

And a lot of their stuff is imported from Germany.

[SurfingScientist]

14. Yesssss! :) ALDI ...

... fed me through college and has cult status home in Germany.

Was so pleased to find them over here in New England, too.

Usually, I shop at Trader Joe's; they are actually owned by ALDI since 1979, hence all the German candy on their shelves.

Factoid: The ALDI owners , the brothers Karl and Theo Albrecht (ALDI = "ALbrecht DIscount"), are supposedly the two wealthiest Germans, but are extremely reclusive - their latest photos date from about the 70s. Started out with their parents' grocery store and kept expanding. They are said to be pretty spartanic. One owns ALDI-north, the other ALDI-south. By the way, also Adidas and Puma were founded by two German brothers who then split the business.

ALDI buy brand products in bulk and dictate the prices to the producing companies, slap their own label on.

There are websites that tell you what ALDI product is in fact which more expensive brand product.

People love them for that Robin-Hood-stick-it-to-the-corporate-guys-and-give-the-bargain-to-the-people-approach.

[twitomy]

19. Sounds like another discounter known as

...Wal-Mart

Anyway..

Aldi rocks!

[biermeister]

12. good thing they can't plant that shit here- oh sorry

[RainDog]

13. GM seed use is insane

"suicide" seeds need to be outlawed immediately and around the world (but of course, the U.S. is front and center with this issue.)

Imagine - and this is a VERY REAL issue: suicide seeds (genetically modified seeds that die after one generation to protect "trademark") can and will infect other crops - just as GM corn has contaminated maize in Mexico.

In such an event, we would be facing famine because cross-bred/wind spread seeds from non-gm plants would no longer be able to germinate seeds.

To allow any company to produce such seeds is a crime against humanity. Short-term profit traded for the future of the entire earth. At what point to we recognize the insanity of such tampering with our very food supply for the sake of one company's profits??

I try not to panic when I see the actions taken in the name of profit for the few, but when I learned of the danger of suicide seeds (from farmers who vehemently oppose their existence) I wondered how much suffering the people of this world will endure before we stop the insanity. Do we have to face starvation in order to "get it?"

[twitomy]

20. Hybrids (not GMO) have been around a long time

and can be considered "suicide" seeds too. If you try to plant the seed from a hybrid crop, you will get a nice looking plant, but little, if any, crop. Therefore farmers have been forced to buy new seed every year long before GMO came around.

[winter999]

21. I agree. Like how can "seeds" of a 1-generation plant be spread?

One-generation = no or sterile seeds, right? Also, can someone explain to me what the deal is with GM hysteria? Hasn't Man been doing this in a crude way since he first cultivated crops? Isn't GM related to Gene Therapy and Stem Cell treatments?

Thanks for the enlightenment.

[Kevin Cloyd]

48. Unexpected consequences

I’ve lived in rural Indiana for most of 50+ years and I remember that as a kid there were so many bugs in the summer that you’d stop between gas fill-ups to wash the bugs off your windshield. Since the advent of corn that grows its own insecticide you can drive down the rural roads and only have a few bugs stuck to the windshield after burning up a tank of gas.

Round-up, the weed killer that plants are genetically modified so it does not affect them kills 100% of some species of North American amphibians when applied according to label directions. You ask, if it kills 100% of some species of amphibians how did it ever get approved? The approval process did not require that it was safe for amphibians.

Finally the seed companies are really sticking it to the farmers this year. Last summer corn peaked at over $7.00 a bushel (corn had been around $3.00 - $3.50 for several years prior) Monsanto and the other producers of GM seeds are charging $220.00 for a bag of GM seed corn (roughly a bushel) even though corn prices are about 50% lower than the $7.00 peak last year.

Corn and soybean prices are now pegged to energy prices.

With the price of crude oil below $50.00 a barrel ethanol isn’t very profitable so the demand for corn is way down, VeraSun, the second largest producer of corn from ethanol in the U.S. filed for bankruptcy last Oct. 27. VeraSun was insolvent and the bankruptcy judge is selling off their assets…But he still managed to screw over the farmers that had contracted to deliver corn to VeraSun.

[HamdenRice]

108. You are confusing a number of issues. Suicide seeds are indeed dangerous & different from hybrids

Hybrids are not suicide seeds. Hybrids simply don't "breed true" in the next generation.

Suicide seeds, by contrast, don't breed at all in the second generation. They have had a gene inserted that causes the next generation to be sterile.

On strictly Darwinian principles of course a seed that is sterile will breed (or nonbreed) itself out of existence in one generation.

The problem is that the suicide seed is being introduced into cultures in developing countries that are seed savers. So if we are in Zambia and both farmer Sipho and farmer Mpho saved seeds, generation after generation, and then farmer Sipho adopts Monsanto suicide seeds, his seeds can cross pollinate with Mpho's seeds rendering them sterile. Surprise, surprise, Mpho now has no seeds and has to buy his from Monsanto.

In legal terms, suicide seeds provide a nuisance to neighboring farmers, and economic externalities.

[WriteDown]

26. People really need to do their research...

http://www.agbios.com/dbase.php?action=ShowProd&data=MON810

[Grinchie]

60. So did they test the CRY1 Toxin from the Corn plant or from the Bacteria?

Word has recently leaked out that they used a "Representative" sample of BT Toxin gathered from the bacteria, and not the corn plant itself.

BT Toxin, it its normal application, it a topical pesticide, and not a systemic pesticide, such as when it is produced in every cell of the plant, including the kernals of corn we eat. Furthermore, since we now know that Bacteria can incorporate genetic material from other bacteri into their own, called Horizontal Gene Transfer, these same genetic traits can conceivably transfer into the bacteria within our gut. So, with that being said, we are subjecting our naturally evolved GI Tract flora to traits such as Antibiotic resistance, Herbicide Resistance, and the production of CRYn (Many types) of BT toxin.

Yes, we have done the research, and it all points to a big crap shoot, with us being the victims/lab rats.

Label GMO foods. When people stop buying them, GMO will disappear into industry where they belong, but only after they prove that living next to one doesn't cause asthma, exczema, or lung damage from the pollen drift.

[WriteDown]

95. Please link to this "word"

Also what is a "representative sample" exactly?

[Grinchie]

109. It means they didn't test the effects of the Toxin produced withing the transgenic Plant.

They used purified toxin from a bacterial source, which is most likely different in subtle ways.

It makes the whole toxicology assay invalid as far as I am concerned, and I am not alone in that view.

[WriteDown]

118. Once again...

Please link to this "word."

[Grinchie]

57. Suicide Seeds were conceived as a way to control the spread of escaped GMO

But somewhere along the line, the message was lost, and the reality is that forcing a species to self terminate or be sterile may not be a wise thing if that trait were to escape into a non GMO organism.

For example, pollen infecting a non gmo plant, and the farmer doesn't see the effect until the second generation.

The concept of Terminator seeds has been taken a step further, where it can be reverse withthe application of a patented chemical that will allow the seed crop to be viable for next season. It makes great sense for the Chemical company, like Monsanto, who also sells the Herbicides and Pesticides, who now has the ability to sell more units of "Life" chemical to the dumb farmers that have been taught the unsustainable way of modern farming by Monsanto.

In the past, most Hybrids would perform well for only one season due to "Hybrid Vigor", where the clone would produce ideally for the first generation. After Pollination, the farmer would not be able to depend on the uniformity of the plant, making the saving of these hybrid seeds sketchy at best, requiring a lot of work and observations to select the best offspring. It was more work, but nothing prevented the farmer that wanted to generate his own crop adapted for the specifics of his own farm from doing it.

Monsanto does not want this avenue for the farmer, and has shut it down with the patenting of GMO. Terminator is the next step, but they actually assume that GMO will survive the rigors of real scientific analysis for safety, nutrition and toxicity, which they will not.

[enki23]

58. sorrta self-limiting, don't ya think?

I'm also deeply concerned about the spread of hybrid corn as an invasive species. And mules, if allowed to interbreed with horse populations, might lead to the destruction of all equine kind!

</sarcasm>

[Grinchie]

63. Obviously you've never seen the Pollen coating the countryside

when a corn field blooms. The pollen is so thick, it will color everything yellow. You'll need to wash your car, but I doubt you'll bother to skim it off the surface of waterways where the fish and other organisms eat it off the surface. Nor will you clean the bee's that encounter it and take it back to the hive, where they make it makes it into products from Honey bees.

Nobody ever though Strawberry Guava would be a problem, but look at it now.

[WriteDown]

65. Nothing that a couple of thousand tons of pesticides won't

cure. And extra-nutritious for bees and fish too. :sarcasm:

[enki23]

70. went way over your head, eh?

i grew up an iowa farm kid. so far as that goes, i can guess i'm probably a bit more familiar with growing corn than you are. and... well... your response has truly confirmed to me to me that you aren't particularly bound by reality. "colors everything yellow..." honestly, now?

all that aside, though, it's clear the gist of the message was also lost on you. there's a reason releasing some mules into a group of wild horses won't decimate the population. (and, by the way, that reason isn't that that mules won't happily fuck a horse.)

[Grinchie]

110. So you are saying that Corn does not produce large amounts of pollen?

Because you have some dubious experience on a farm somewhere in the stereotypical Iowa farm lands? Each grain of pollen carries the toxin, and the genetic sequence. It falls on the ground, drifts in the wind, settles on everything it reaches. I've seen ponds and waterways yellow with the stuff, and exactly how many crops are you currently growing?

The Mule statement was not lost on me, I just didn't respond to it because it was a strawman argument. It implied that normal Hybrid corn offspring were sterile, which is not true. Hybrid plant offspring are a lot like Avocados, you never know what kind of plant you'll get from a seedling.

It would seem that the strawman mule story hooked you harder than the reality of GMO pollen drift.

[fasttense]

116. I don't know what planet you live in but here on earth

pollen, especially in spring, covers almost every surface in rural areas. I've seen it and I've had to clean it. It's as plain as my water eyes and runny nose.

PS, it is yellow too, with a hint of green (though not necessarily all from corn).

[BonnieJW]

15. As usual, European countries exhibit

far more intelligence than America.

[indimuse]

16. Monsanto is...

Evil! KNR!:kick:

[Pacifist Patriot]

72. Could not agree with you more.

[dipsydoodle]

17. K & R

Good news.:thumbsup:

[rollingrock]

18. Too bad we can't ban GM corn here

especially not since our new Ag Secretary is a GMO shill who rides around in a corporate jet provided by Monsanto.

[No More Bushbots]

44. Link Please

[rollingrock]

56. Tom Vilsack

Well, weeks after being counted as "out of the running," Vilsack was announced as our new Secretary of Agriculture. The general reaction I'm hearing is not a very happy one, but also "he's not the worst pick." How's that for a ringing endorsement?

Iowans who I've spoken to tell me about their disappointment in Vilsack's vote (as a state senator) to take away local control on hog factory farms in Iowa. During his time as governor "Vilsack oversaw the largest proliferation of hog confinements in the states history." These new hog CAFOs put tens of thousands of independent family hog farmers out of business in the state. The end result of this was a "decimation of rural Iowa" and serious degradation of the state's drinking water.

Iowans also remember the rides on Monsanto's corporate jet that Vilsack - the Biotech "Governor of the Year" - enjoyed during his time in office. He repayed Monsanto by working with the Republican floor manager in the House, promising to do everything he could to get a seed bill to pass. This bill took away county power to regulate GMOs within county borders.


------------


Six Reasons Why Obama Appointing Monsanto's Buddy, Former Iowa Governor Vilsack, for USDA Head Would be a Terrible Idea

Organic Consumers Association, November 12, 2008

1. Former Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack's support of genetically engineered pharmaceutical crops, especially pharmaceutical corn:
http://www.gene.ch/genet/2002/...
http://www.organicconsumers.or...

2. The biggest biotechnology industry group, the Biotechnology Industry Organization, named Vilsack Governor of the Year. He was also the founder and former chair of the Governor's Biotechnology Partnership.
http://www.bio.org/news/pressr...

3. When Vilsack created the Iowa Values Fund, his first poster child of economic development potential was Trans Ova and their pursuit of cloning dairy cows.

4. Vilsack was the origin of the seed pre-emption bill in 2005, which many people here in Iowa fought because it took away local government's possibility of ever having a regulation on seeds- where GE would be grown, having GE-free buffers, banning pharma corn locally, etc. Representative Sandy Greiner, the Republican sponsor of the bill, bragged on the House Floor that Vilsack put her up to it right after his state of the state address.

5. Vilsack has a glowing reputation as being a schill for agribusiness biotech giants like Monsanto. Sustainable ag advocated across the country were spreading the word of Vilsack's history as he was attempting to appeal to voters in his presidential bid. An activist from the west coast even made this youtube animation about Vilsack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
The airplane in this animation is a referral to the controversy that Vilsack often traveled in Monsanto's jet.

6. Vilsack is an ardent support of corn and soy based biofuels, which use as much or more fossil energy to produce them as they generate, while driving up world food prices and literally starving the poor....more

www.opednews.com/articles/Ag-Secretary-Announced-To-by-Jill-Hamilton-and-081216-596.html

[Grinchie]

64. All we need is Mandatory Labeling of GMO ingrediants. That will kill GMO in the US

[rollingrock]

73. An estimated 70% of food supply in US and Canada

already comes from GMO seeds and modified animal genes. Labeling is never going to happen as long as industry shills like Tom Vilsack are in charge of the USDA.

The absence of any kind of regulation of our food supply is a huge problem completely ignored by government and media. So how do we draw attention to it? The only thing I can think of is organized mass street protest, but that's probably never going to happen either because Americans are too lazy to get off the couch, so I guess we're just screwed!

------------
Frequently Asked Questions

www.thecampaign.org/

Question: Why don't the food manufacturers and the biotech companies want you to know if your foods have been genetically engineered?

Answer: Because if they are labeled, you will start asking questions such as "Have these genetically engineered foods been safety tested on humans?" The answer to that question is NO!

Question: Doesn't the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) require genetically engineered foods to be safety tested like they do for new drugs and food additives before they are sold to the public for consumption?

Answer: NO! With limited exceptions, under current FDA regulations, companies are not even required to notify the agency they are bringing new genetically engineered products to the market.

Question: How much of the food I buy in the grocery stores contain genetically engineered ingredients?

Answer: Since genetically engineered soy and corn are used in many processed foods, it is estimated that over 70 percent of the foods in grocery stores in the U.S. and Canada contain genetically engineered ingredients.

Question: Are people all over the world eating genetically engineered foods?

Answer: No, all of the European Union nations, Japan, China, Australia, New Zealand and many other countries require the mandatory labeling of foods that contain genetically engineered ingredients. As a result, food manufacturers in all those countries choose to use non-genetically engineered ingredients.

Question: Are you telling me that people in the United States and Canada are eating a lot more genetically engineered foods than in many other countries in the world?

Answer: Yes, citizens in the United States and Canada are engaged in the largest feeding experiment in human history and most people are not even aware of the fact.

Question: What countries are growing genetically engineered crops?

Answer: There were only five countries that grew about 98 percent of the $44 billion of commercial genetically engineered crops in 2003-2004. Those five countries were: the United States ($27.5 billion), Argentina ($8.9 billion), China ($3.9 billion), Canada ($2.0 billion) and Brazil ($1.6 billion).

Question: What can I do to help properly regulate genetically engineered foods so that I can rest assure that these experimental crops will not harm human health or the environment?

Answer: The single most important step you can take is to mail three letters using the U.S. Postal Service. One letter goes to your Congressional Representative in the U.S. House of Representatives and the other two to your state's two Senators serving in the U.S. Senate. The letters request that they support legislation to label genetically engineered foods. We have form letters on this web site for this purpose. Click here for more information.

A brief word about terminology

Analysts use many different phrases to describe genetically engineered foods. The biotech industry rarely uses the phrase "genetically engineered foods," sticking with the more bland (and less controversial) phrase "biotech foods."

In Europe, genetically engineered foods are more commonly referred to as genetically modified foods, genetically altered foods or GMOs (short for genetically modified organisms). But scientists generally agree that "genetically engineered" more accurately represents the process than "genetically modified."

Supporters of biotech foods often try to argue that we have been genetically modifying our foods for centuries, through a process known as hybridization, or interbreeding. But that process is far different than the recombinant DNA splicing used in modern agricultural biotechnology.

It is interesting to note that the eleventh edition of the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary added the word "Frankenfood" as another term to describe genetically engineered food.

[Grinchie]

111. Excellent list Rollingrock, thanks for posting it here.

The news media in America doesn't even report GMO news. It's like Monsanto has paid them off to just avoid the subject entirely.

[Redstone]

24. All righty, then. It's time SOMEONE stood up to those evil fuckers.

Redstone

[orleans]

25. good. n/t

[Deep13]

27. The article does not say what the danger is.

Maybe someone can clue me in.
:shrug:

[WriteDown]

28. No one knows...

http://www.agbios.com/dbase.php?action=ShowProd&data=MON810

[Javaman]

33. And that is exactly the problem...

monsanto introduced a genetically modified tomato to the market years ago, "the flavor savor". it had "better" taste and had a longer shelf life.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.05/food.html
"Flavr Savr wasn't just oddly spelled; it was a misnomer. Even worse, the fruit was a bust in the fields. It was highly susceptible to disease and provided low yields. Calgene spent more than $200 million to make a better tomato, only to find itself awash in red ink. Eventually, it was swallowed by Monsanto."

The tomatoes were pulled from the shelves.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7796594/State-of-the-Science-on-the-Health-Risks-of-Gm-Foods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Health_Risks

This is why gm foods are bad, there just isn't enough research being done on a large scale.

The general population are now becoming their lab rats.

And just what is wrong with eating regular tomatoes?

Because monsanto which also puts out Round Up, modifies their tomatoes to be round up resistant. Sounds okay right? wrong, what is now happening is that the weeds that once died due to the use of Round Up have themselves genetically modified themselves via nature to be round up resistant. So now you have super weeds and monsanto needs to develop a new version of round up that is stronger to defend against these new super weeds.

Now do you see how it works?

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/RRSDSA.php

http://www.nowpublic.com/environment/superweeds-coming-your-neighborhood-soon

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2008/db20080212_435043.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_businessweek+exclusives%20

[WriteDown]

35. Obviously, you were against Gregor Mendel's work as well..

He basically used an unnatural process(a paintbrush) to create desirable traits in plants. Plants that taste better are less of a concern to me. Adding Vitamin A to rice in places where blindness runs rampant due to vitamin A deficiency is a little higher on the list. Ways to stop the corn borer beetle without pesticides are also pretty good.

You also missed part of the article you linked to:

In some cases, GMOs have fulfilled their promise. They've allowed US farmers to be more productive without as much topical pesticide and fertilizer. Our grocery stores are stuffed with cheaply produced food - up to 70 percent of all packaged goods contain GM ingredients, mainly corn and soybean. GM has worked even better with inedible crops. Take cotton. Bugs love it, which is why Southern folk music is full of tunes about the boll weevil. This means huge doses of pesticides. The world's largest cotton producer, China, used to track the human body count during spraying season. Then in 1996, Monsanto introduced BT cotton - a GMO that employs a gene from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis to make a powerful pesticide in the plant. BT cotton cuts pesticide spraying in half; the farmers survive.

edited to complete thought.

[Javaman]

37. oh for fucksakes...

Obviously you didn't read any of the links, because I just posted them and unless you are a graduate of the speed reading institute, I seriously doubt you did.

Comparing monsanto to Gregor Mendel's work is like comparing apples to oranges.

If you even tried to read the links I posted you will see that monsanto inject human genome into the tomatoes DNA.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Gregor Mendel was synthesizing human DNA in his work.

so much ignorance. Just try reading a little, huh? they post back with an informed opinion instead of ridiculous canards.

on second though, I don't want your opinion, because you are of lazy mind. You are now blocked.

[WriteDown]

38. Read again...

The world's largest cotton producer, China, used to track the human body count during spraying season,. Then in 1996, Monsanto introduced BT cotton - a GMO that employs a gene from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis to make a powerful pesticide in the plant. BT cotton cuts pesticide spraying in half; the farmers survive.

Of course those people must be expendable.

[No More Bushbots]

46. Don't try to explain Genetically Modified crops to these people

They still believe that the seeds that they buy to plant their organic garden in their back yard have not changed since their knuckle dragging ancestors first found out that they could eat the stuff without dying.

[AtheistCrusader]

59. I think it would be helpful to divide

Anger about what appears to be predatory marketing practices by companies such as Montsano, away from potential environmental risks of the GM crops, or chemicals used in conjunction with them, and also from any potential allergic or other danger humans might encounter eating the end product food.

If people want to be mad about their marketing practices, hey, more power to them.

But if it's over actual danger from the food, or the way in which we grow them, that is endangering either the food supply, or the environment.. well, I want to see some serious evidence. There's an awful lot of hyperoble and angst mixed in with a few facts, and a lot of fears. Each of these are separate issues.

[Tumbulu]

100. Insults clearly show how limited the person throwing insults around is.

DU is composed of many intelligent people. You have demonstrated that you are not one of them.

[Grinchie]

71. They just commit suicide now, and the workers get rashes when they harvest the Cotton.

I can't wait to see the next crop of clothing that has allergic "Cheap" cotton material as it's main constituent.

It may cut pesticides in have, but it doubles Herbicide spraying, doesn't work well when stressed or in drought conditions, and has failed on several occasions. I guess you'll find that information a little hard to track down, because the Monsanto machine has seen to that. Try linking to India someth=imes, and expand your news to something other than Corpoarte media.

[WriteDown]

93. Links to any of this?

Makes for quite a yarn(pun intended) though. Amazingly, my hanes has yet to give me hives :eyes:.

[Grinchie]

113. You're welcome to eat all the surplus GMO food you want Writedown

You are obviously enamored by the technology so much that you are unable to think rationally about the known effects, and are totally in denial that the possibilities for trouble with GMO are nearly limitless.

I allow you to choose to eat GMO, but you'll be damned if you force me to eat it. There is plenty of information out there. Just open your eyes.

[WriteDown]

119. GMO cotton is already in wide use.

I am still waiting for these rashes.

[PaulaFarrell]

106. Your info is very old

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July06/Bt.cotton.China.ssl.html
Although Chinese cotton growers were among the first farmers worldwide to plant genetically modified (GM) cotton to resist bollworms, the substantial profits they have reaped for several years by saving on pesticides have now been eroded.

The reason, as reported by Cornell University researchers at the American Agricultural Economics Association (AAEA) Annual Meeting in Long Beach, Calif., July 25, is that other pests are now attacking the GM cotton.

The GM crop is known as Bt cotton, shorthand for the Bacillus thuringiensis gene inserted into the seeds to produce toxins. But these toxins are lethal only to leaf-eating bollworms. After seven years, populations of other insects -- such as mirids -- have increased so much that farmers are now having to spray their crops up to 20 times a growing season to control them, according to the study of 481 Chinese farmers in five major cotton-producing provinces.

more at link...


As stated by other posters, GM is a giant experiment in which we and the environment at large are the test rats. You may be fine with that but the rest of us aren't.

[Grinchie]

68. You'd have to eat 20 pounds of "Golden" rice a day to get any benefit.

You've fallen for the the oldest trick in the book. Like calling cigarettes "Freedom Torches".

[WriteDown]

81. I like how you never provide any links for your assertions..

Luckily, I don't have that problem. Plenty of info and links here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice

I also like how you casually condemn entire populations to blindness.

[eridani]

90. What horseshit. Why not spend a dollar a year for vitamin A supplenents?

Beta carotene is one of the most common molecules on earth, and it is abysmally stupid to think you have to add it to a grain in order for people to get adequate consumption. Why not kill off monocropping and put back some of the many veggies that are far richer in it.

Just because only tool you have is a hammer does not mean that every problem is a nail.

[WriteDown]

92. You're a genius...

You've solved Vitamin A deficiency in Africa. i hope you're on your way to the UN right now with your proposal. :eyes:

[eridani]

96. You need not be too bright to figure it out

The following is one of quite a few charitable foundations that have been on the problem for awhile. Since vitamin A is fat soluble and stored for a long time, a kid can get a year's supply in a single dose. Thousands of times cheaper and a lot easier than eating 20 lbs of rice a day.

http://www.vitaminangels.org/menu/programs/vitamina.htm

[WriteDown]

99. The problem is always in the transportation....

Or are you currently making deliveries to Africa. Why are many African's starving when it would be so easy to ship food there? An even better question is why in some parts of Africa is rice the main diet?

Please link to this 20lb figure you cite.

[eridani]

105. OK, 15 lbs, then

There isn't even any vitamin A in the golden rice--it's beta carotene, which cannot be converted to vitamin A on a diet lacking enough fat and protein. Africans are starving because Africa is getting a lot dryer and more heavily populated, plus export crops take up too much land.

http://ngin.tripod.com/282.htm

If that sounds harsh, consider this: an 11-year-old would have to eat 15 pounds of cooked golden rice a day—quite a bowlful—to satisfy his minimum daily requirement of vitamin A. Even if that were possible (or if scientists boosted beta-carotene levels), it probably wouldn’t do a malnourished child much good, since the body can only convert beta-carotene into vitamin A when fat and protein are present in the diet. Fat and protein in the diet are, of course, precisely what a malnourished child lacks.

[WriteDown]

117. You link to an article from 2001 on tripod?

15lbs? Nope. This problem has been solved. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice#cite_note-paine2005-2) as have many things since 2001.

Africa has been starving since I was a kid and that was in the 60's.

[eridani]

131. Try reading your own references

"Theoretical analyses of the potential nutritional benefits of golden rice show that consumption of golden rice would not eliminate the problems of blindness and increased mortality, but should be seen as a complement to other methods of vitamin A supplementation<13>."

So ferchrissakes do the simple and cheap thing and give the kids supplements. Why in bleeding hell is a complicated, expensive and incomplete solution better?

[WriteDown]

134. Once again...

Making perfect the enemy of good.

When is your company going to start shipping Vitamin A supplements to Africa?

[eridani]

135. Why duplicate effort? I gave you references for groups that are doing exactly that

Smart, simple and cheap is always the enemy of stupid, complicated and expensive for excellent reasons.

[Grinchie]

114. Strawman arguments don't work here Writedown

Your statement about "Condemn entire populations to blindness" shows how much of a troll you really are.

But for you, because you are so persistant in your blind defense of the indefensible, and my penchant for popping the stupidity bubble of people like you, here's a link.

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/GEessays/goldenricehoax.html

QUOTE
"While the complicated technology transfer package of "Golden Rice" will not solve vitamin A problems in
India, it is a very effective strategy for corporate take over of rice production, using the public sector as a
Trojan horse."

[WriteDown]

120. Haha...

Yeah, the solution is to grow things like spinach in Africa. Its brilliant. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?

The author of your article is LITERALLY a tree hugger. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandana_Shiva

Here's some more info that may help you. This time concerning cotton. And I'll actually INCLUDE the good with the bad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bt_cotton)

Possible problems
Further information: Genetically modified food controversies

The most celebrated problem ever associated with Bt crops was the claim that pollen from Bt maize could kill the monarch butterfly.<33> This report was puzzling because the pollen from most maize hybrids contains much lower levels of Bt than the rest of the plant<34> and led to multiple follow-up studies. In the end, it appears that the initial study was flawed; based on the way the pollen was collected, they collected and fed non-toxic pollen that was mixed with anther walls that did contain Bt toxin.<35> The weight of the evidence is that Bt crops do not pose a risk to the monarch butterfly.<36>

There was also a report in Nature that Bt maize was contaminating maize in its center of origin.<37> Nature later "concluded that the evidence available is not sufficient to justify the publication of the original paper."<38> A subsequent large-scale study, in 2005, failed to find any evidence of contamination in Oaxaca.<39> However, further researchs confirmed initial findings concerning contamination of natural maize by transgenic maize <40>.

There is also a hypothetical risk that for example, transgenic maize will crossbreed with wild grass variants, and that the Bt-gene will end up in a natural environment, retaining its toxicity. An event like this would have ecological implications, as well as increasing the risk of Bt resistance arising in the general herbivore population. However, there is no evidence of crossbreeding between maize and wild grasses.

As of 2007, a new phenomenon called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) is affecting bee hives all over North America. Initial speculation on possible causes ranged from cell phone and pesticide use<41> to the use of Bt resistant transgenic crops.<42> The Mid-Atlantic Apiculture Research and Extension Consortium published a report on 2007-03-27 that found no evidence that pollen from Bt crops is adversely affecting bees. The actual cause of CCD remains unknown, scientists believe that it may have multiple causes. <43>

A 2008 study carried out by Navdanya, an organisation that promotes organic farming, compared the soil of 25 fields where Bt-cotton had been grown over three years with adjoining fields planted only with non GMO crops. The study found statistically significant drops in microbes and beneficial enzymes. The most significant drops were Acid phosphatase which contributes to the uptake of nutrients by microorganisms (-26.6%), Nitrogenase which fixes atmospheric nitrogen (-22.6%), Actinomycetes which break down cellulose to make humus (-17%), Bacteria (-14.2%) and Dehydrogenase an oxidiser which increases beneficial microbial activity (-10.3%).<44>

[Grinchie]

66. Because you cannot patent a Regular Tomato.

But you can work really hard to make sure that growing a regular tomato is really expensive by controlling the seed companies and refusing to sell them.

Don't forget the millions that Monsanto gets every years for spraying the Coca and Marijuana fields in South America, which comes right back and buys influence in the USDA ade the FDA, as well as permitting outlandish media campaign on the virtues of Polluting our naturally adapted genetics.

[Runcible Spoon]

36. Sure people know.

It's the predatory trademarking and use restriction of seeds that ruins entire local economies that's the main problem.

Forget whatever the health ramifications of GM foods are; allowing huge transnational conglomerates to tell local growers what they can and can't do with their crops after manipulating and outright brute forcing them to use Monsanto products in the first place is the main issue. It's just not as sexy as Frankenfood scare tactics.

[WriteDown]

39. No argument against that.

:).

[AtheistCrusader]

61. As far as I can tell

This is the primary concern. Or should be, I guess. These companies seem to be flirting with racketeering, in a way.

We've been 'genetically modifying' our food for thousands of years. The only difference is, in the past it was painstaking trial and error, now we have a map.

[Grinchie]

74. The trouble is, the Sex life of plants has been discontinued.

There is no way in hell that the trait of a fish, or of a human would ever make it into a rice plant, yet we have experimental rice that Produces Human Serum Albumin. We also had a contamination the 2006 U.S. Rice supply that cost farmers billions of dollars.

Of course, if the bee's continue dying off, we'll all be put to work pollinating our plants in one way or another.

[rucognizant]

45. In addition to being a way of controlling the food supply...........

Genetically Modified in plain english means ( in the laboroatory in petri dishes...) INJECTING INTO the DNA of the plant foreign substances, like pesticides.
A certain kind of corn has been injected with the DNA of a nursing Mother sow ( PIG)! The basic premise to make the corn more nutritious.
How do you vegans feel about eating corn merged with pig?
It's science carried WAY TOO FAR!

[WriteDown]

50. How is insulin made?

?

[AtheistCrusader]

62. Pigs and sheep, mostly.

[Grinchie]

76. Insulin is made from recombinant DNA Altered E. Coli.

Yes, that is a good example of DNA serving a useful purpose. It does not validate the alteration of food crops where safety is not proven.

Just because you don't die from a spoonful of GMO corn does not make it right when 20 years of exposure ends up giving you Crohns Disease, constant pain, or triggers of focal infections from a perpetual low grade poisoning.

Their are compunds created that noone can predict, and it you are trying to say that this is natural or inherantly safe, then you need to go back to school and get some real education.

[eridani]

91. And those bacteria in big culture drums are highly modified so they CANNOT survive

--without all the supplements also provided to them. Much better that letting this stuff loose in the general ecology, no?

[WriteDown]

121. Almost like some sort of "suicide" gene was placed in them...

ponder that for a moment.

[eridani]

132. Not really. They just deleted some genes for some synthetic pathway enzymes

If the critter can't make its own lysine, for instance, it can only survive in cultures that supply it as a nutrient. Delete enough of those genes, and survival requires a complex cocktail that is highly unlikely to be found in nature. That gets them permanently stuck in vats making humulin.

[Deep13]

84. Yes, I know what genetic modification means.

The article says that Germany suspects it is dangerous. I understand your philosophical objections, but where is the danger?

As far as control goes, well, corporations do tat anyway, so how is this different?

[pam4water]

130. Everyone who has not read Jane Goodall's Harvest for Hope GO READ IT!

[DFW]

29. This feels like a replay of 2002-2003

The German foreign minister at the time, Joschka Fischer, was hosting Donald Rumsfeld in Germany, while
Rumsfeld was trying to convince Germany to come on board with the USA to invade Iraq. They even left the
original English on the news here, something the Germans rarely do. Fischer told Rumsfeld point blank:
"You have to convince me . You have not convinced me."

Now Americans are again trying to convince Germany to do something that will benefit narrow American business
interests. But the Germans want to be convinced that it is in the German interest as well. Once again, Germany
is tell those American interests: "You haven't convinced me." Once again, despite some yelling and screaming
on the part of those American business interests, they will not get their way unless they can figure out how
to prove that GM crops are a good diea. For all their mighty technical prowess, they don't appear to be able
to do this. How stupid do they think the Europeans are? Does Monsanto think they are cleverer than Donald Rumsfeld?
If not, it appears they have the impression that the Germans have become more stupid. All they had to do was ask
me. I could have told them: the Germans have not become more stupid. On thecontrary--ever since Iraq, they have
become even more wary of American interests trying to talk them into something risky whose advantages have not
been established beyond a doubt.

[Grinchie]

79. The Germans are incredibly smart to distrust the U.S.

They have been through so much hell, endured the lies of Fascism and suffered for decades. One has to believe that they have learned to discern reality for fantasy, unlike the Americans that are spoonfed fantasy every day of their lives.

Fascism=Corporations without regulation.

[WriteDown]

94. Interesting logic...

Perhaps Americans would be incredibly smart to distrust the Germans. Afterall, they started two world wars in in the past century. Just saying, haha.

[DFW]

101. A little mistrust is always healthy

However, as far as starting wars goes, the post-war Germans have acquired a healthy dose of pacifism.

I have been stationed here for thirty years and am married to one of the friendly natives. Here in Germany,
youth camps that even smell of militaristic tendencies are quickly disbanded by the government, and the
main far right splinter party is facing calls for its banning not only from popular movements but by members
of the German parliament. A station like Fox would be shut down for spewing out hate porpaganda within five
hours of its first broadcast.

I'd say that German distrust of the USA is at the very least as justified as any distrust we might still
have for them. I don't know of any country today that fears military intervention by Germany. I cannot
say the same for my own country, although the new administration has inspired a LOT more confidence in
that regard--like a 50 pound weight being lifted from our national shoulder.

[WriteDown]

102. I was just joshing around a bit....

Glad you like Germany. I'm there about once a year and love it. Used to work for a German electrical connection company. Can't say that working for the Germans was a pleasant experience though.

[DFW]

126. That was one possibility I had considered

Even so, I have discovered that DU has its share of completely humorless types, so I was covering
my bases. There are still some out there who think that Germany is still a nation of baby killers
and Gestapo deportations. My girls went to the Anne Frank Elementary School up the road from where
we live (just happened to be the nearest one--we didn't choose it), and yet I sometimes get asked how
I could possibly live among these "monsters," not to mention be married to one.

I don't have the experience of working for Germans, though, so I can't compare notes there. I work
for an American outfit, same one since I was recruited in the mid-seventies. The hours suck, but the
travel perks are cool, and the only way up from here is some comfortable desk job full of power-
jockeying intrigue back Stateside, so I'm staying put until the old bones creak more than they
carry.

[Metta]

30. Damn good news. Where compared with Bush is Obama?

Concerned near Pittsburgh.

[Grinchie]

80. Obama is extremely quiet on this issue

I am hoping he is waiting for Monsanto to use all the rope he has given them to hang themselves.

But only time will tell.

[Metta]

88. Watch and wait, then.

He'll show his hand sooner or later.

[winyanstaz]

31. good news for the planet!

its about time we started taking a stand...these people should all be in jail.
The little farmers they ran out of business should be able to sue the crap out of them and so should the people they made sick.

[Pisces]

32. This is great news.

[lovuian]

34. its about the Bees

they are dying and becoming extinct

they have been around longer than GMO food

[rucognizant]

47. Good Point!

Not yet proven but a pretty good guess that this is what is making them disappear!

[WriteDown]

49. No proven correlation...

Nothing to suggest that is the likely culprit either. The bees started disappearing when ipods became popular. Perhaps the extra sound waves that the millions of ipods all over the world are producing are affecting the bees. Just as likely.

My bet is on a virus.

[Joe Chi Minh]

40. I feel absolutely gutted. All my Monsanto shares will suffer, and the Halliburton ones in sympathy,

[Vidar]

42. Bravo Germany!

[laylah]

51. Awesome!

:woohoo: Maybe, just MAYBE, we'll follow suit!

[cal04]

52. video: Germany bans Monsanto's GM maize

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7999159.stm
Germany is to ban the cultivation of genetically modified maize - the only GM crop widely grown in Europe.
The German Government says the maize, MON 810, produced by the American bio-tech company Monsanto, is a danger to the environment.
Russell Padmore reports.

[antimatter98]

53. We need to eradicate Monsanto from the US too. n/t

[Grinchie]

54. There is no doubt that all GMO are risky. Perhaps Vilsack will require real testing in 5 years.

If one looks at the History of GMO Fast Tracking in the United States, it reveals a internal corruption and fraud on par with AIG, Maddof and all the other fraudsters.

If the possibility fo slipping unforseen allergans and toxins into our food, the ongoing research into Terminator technology, The wanton sacrifice of the state of Hawai'a as a test bed for GMO's due to its remote nature somewhat protecting the world from disaster should anything occur, and the uncontrolled, greedy acquisstion of Seed companies by a large, military industrial chemical manufacturer, Monsanto were not enough to force a review of currently held dogmatic beliefs, then I'm afraid that we will see no movement here until we as a people demand that all GMO ingrediants are listed on the labels of the foods we eat.

There is a reason that the GMO manufacturers have fought labeling so hard, and that is because if people knew the grotesque scope or magnitude of GMO's in our food supply, they would abandon it overnight, totally destroying the Big Corporations that churn out good tasting, non-nutritive crap for pennies a ton.

Europe has mandatory labeling, and the citizens are allowed to make a choice, where Americans tend to believe that the "Experts" know best. Fight for labeling, it is our only chance at destroying the coverup buy demonstrating that people don't want GMO's. Those that do can go right ahead, but don't take my choice away by hiding GMO's in everything we eat.

[Duer 157099]

55. Read "Seeds of Deception" if you really don't know why GM foods are controversial

http://www.amazon.com/Seeds-Deception-Government-Genetically-Engineered/dp/0972966587/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239746137&sr=1-1

I also used to be confused about the debate, thinking that it was just a speeded-up version of what nature (or Mendel) does with genes.

NOT SO.

If you don't understand what the debate is really about, you should educate yourself. I'd recommend starting with the book suggested above.

It's not benign. It's not trivial. It's not "mendelian genetics". It's much more than that.

Educate yourselves.

[Optical.Catalyst]

67. Great news from Germany.

If all countries would ban Monsanto, the whole world would be better off

[humus]

69. Ring Them Bells !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0HQUy-eSrc

Ring Them Bells
Ring them bells, ye heathen
From the city that dreams,
Ring them bells from the sanctuaries
Cross the valleys and streams,
For they're deep and they're wide
And the world's on its side
And time is running backwards
And so is the bride.

Ring them bells St. Peter
Where the four winds blow,
Ring them bells with an iron hand
So the people will know.
Oh it's rush hour now
On the wheel and the plow
And the sun is going down
Upon the sacred cow.

Ring them bells Sweet Martha,
For the poor man's son,
Ring them bells so the world will know
That God is one.
Oh the shepherd is asleep
Where the willows weep
And the mountains are filled
With lost sheep.

Ring them bells for the blind and the deaf,
Ring them bells for all of us who are left,
Ring them bells for the chosen few
Who will judge the many when the game is through.
Ring them bells, for the time that flies,
For the child that cries
When innocence dies.

Ring them bells St. Catherine
From the top of the room,
Ring them from the fortress
For the lilies that bloom.
Oh the lines are long
And the fighting is strong
And they're breaking down the distance
Between right and wrong.

B.Dylan

[truedelphi]

89. That song is spot on!! RIng those bells ! ! !

What a great arrangement. Thanks!

[valerief]

75. Somewhere in the world where there will be real food!!!!

At least until they create their own monster food.

[Summermoondancer]

77. We sould outlaw anything like this

no manufactured anything crap, no hormones in meat or eggs..ect...this is why we have such an overweight population.

[LaPera]

78. Hoping Spain & Italy will follow as well.

[TheCML]

82. Biotech Biotech

Biotech is Godzilla.

[Taverner]

83. Now this is what we need!

I have no problem with GMO per se - but the legal restrictions are simply wrong

[marmar]

86. DIE MONSANTO.........FUCKING DIE!

:nopity:

:nopity:

:nopity:

:nopity:

[MasonJar]

87. Good for "Old Europe"!!!!!!!!!!! Monsanto is a stain on life on this planet.

And our country is complicit in their crime against humanity. Read Al Gore's Earth in the Balance and find out how the seeds of the Fertile Crescent and a few other areas have been the same for 1000s of years and have kept mankind going. We, through the Bushistas, refused to let the Iraqis continue to use their precious seeds. We are indeed an evil empire.

[Cha]

97. Danke Schoen!

I bet monsanto is pissed!

[livefreest]

103. so should we. and ban all food engineered by Dupont, Bayer,syngenta, AgrEvo

and similar companies.

[tclambert]

107. What crap. All maize is genetically modified.

Do you see any of that grow wild? No, because we've bred it and hybridized it to the point where it CAN'T grow wild.

[panzerfaust]

112. Yep. Otherwise it would not be corn.

Nice to see that vitalism has survived the turning of the century.

Now, if we could just bring back smallpox, our lives would really be enriched.

[Grinchie]

115. Try reading the Omnivores Dilemma for clarification.

One of the better reads on how our food system has been destroyed by industrialization and a one size fits all mentality.

Corn is an industrial commodity and a raw material. Most of the stuff you eat is about as tasty as gravel, and just as resilient. It's not until it cgoes through the refinery process into basic molecules that it becomes useful. Without Industrial processing, it would be inedible.

Given the right conditions, anything can grow wild, even modern corn.

[WriteDown]

122. Bring back pellagra!!! nt

[ensho]

123. thank you Germany

nt

[redqueen]

124. Fantastic news.

Let's hope the trend continues.

[my future me]

125. "Suicide Seeds"

"Suicide seeds" are getting a bad rap. It 's very important to realize that so-called "suicide seeds" are a very important aspect of any altered crop. When plants are engineered to be heartier, use less water, or produce more product, it is vital to eliminate the possibility that the plants would proliferate in the wild. They would essentially become weeds, in the sense that they would/could dominate the landscape due to their modified genome. Not only that, but it would be extremely unethical and unwise to introduce new genetic information into the wild without understanding all of the possible consequences.

It is profitable for these companies to produce "suicide seeds", but any genetically modified plant should be one-generation only. The majority of one-generation plants produce no gametes, i.e. do not sporulate. Their is essentially no way to pass genetic information or even produce "dud" spores. "Dud" spores, however, do still exist; and it is essential to eliminate these. "Dud" spores would have all the physical characteristics of a sporulating cell, however they would not carry any genetic information. These could interfere with neighboring crops and reduce their seasonal viability.

Also, genetically modified food is here to stay and with good reason. It allows us to increase production and increase the security of our food supply from natural disasters and drought. However, it should be strictly regulated. It would be unwise for any government to allow a company to introduce a genetically modified organism into the environment without extensive and hopefully redundant experimentation by independent sources, i.e. regulatory agencies and universities. It is also important to develop methods that would inhibit viruses in GM plants. Viruses, which account for much of the lateral gene exchange outside of microorganisms, have the ability to infect cells and carry random sequences of the host cells genome with them. This could allow for modified genes to be propagated in non-GM controlled, i.e. "suicide seed", crops.

[humus]

128. keep the balance true

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Raids-on-Seeds-life-itsel-by-Linn-Cohen-Cole-081215-45.html

"But even if the GE-seeds were wonderful and all that was promised, the real problem with them are the patents they come with. The biotech companies are monopolizing seeds themselves, actually privatizing the DNA of life. They sell the GE-seeds at many times the price of normal seeds. In India, where Bt-cotton farmers have been committing suicide in huge numbers because of debt, Monsanto sells Bt-cotton seed at 1000% higher than normal seeds. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1082559/The-GM-genocide-Thousands-Indian-farmers-committing-suicide-using-genetically-modified-crops.html.


And the seeds come with a contract that must be signed, preventing farmers from collecting seeds off their own land at the end of the season - an historic rupture of humankind's free access to natural growth. For it is important to notice that the biotech multinationals are not just claiming a patent on their process of altering the seeds but claim to own growth itself".



------------------------------------------------
-----------
"a people who are entirely lacking in economic self-determination,
either personal or local, and who are therefore entirely passive in
dealing with the suppliers of all their goods and services, including
political goods and services, cannot be governed democratically--or
not for long."
Wendell Berry

[defendandprotect]

127. War by Monsanto -- Food by Monsanto -- Suicide seeds . . . NO . . .

Stick with Mother Nature and stop the war on nature -- !!!

[pam4water]

129. Hurray for Germany! There is one! Damn I'm too late to R '_'