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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:18 PM
Original message
Pope Admits Mistakes in Letter to Bishops
Source: New York Times

MADRID Pope Benedict XVI has written an unusually personal letter to bishops worldwide explaining why he revoked the excommunication of a Holocaust-denying bishop and admitting mistakes in how the Vatican handled the case.

The letter, which the Vatican will release Thursday, is a further attempt to calm the waters after Benedict pardoned four schismatic bishops, including Richard Williamson, who in a television interview aired in January said that there were no Nazi gas chambers.

The revocation provoked worldwide outrage and caused Catholics and Jews alike to question Benedicts commitment to ecumenism and the reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

In passages of the letter that appeared on Wednesday in the Italian newspaper Il Foglio, the Vatican admitted mistakes in handling the case, and said in the future it would pay more attention to how news spreads over the Internet.




Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/world/europe/12pope.h...




It's official. The papacy is NOT "infallible".
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, how is this reconciled with core Catholic dogma about the infallibility of the Pope?
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greenkal Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Great point!
Of course the Hitler Youth is going to side with the Nazis.
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Someone will soon be along to inform you ...
...that "infallibility" only applies to ex cathedra pronouncements, whatever that means. It doesn't mean, at any rate, that the Pope is never wrong. (This "core doctrine" goes back only to the late 19th century, BTW.)

So the holocaust-denying bishop is out, but the rabidly antisemitic order he belongs to is still dandy, I take it.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I don't understand what that means.... but I'd be willing to get edumacated :)
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Ex cathedra occurs about once every 100 years
In practice, popes seldom use their power of infallibility, but rely on the notion that the Church allows the office of the pope to be the ruling agent in deciding what will be accepted as formal beliefs in the church."<2> Since the solemn declaration of Papal Infallibility by Vatican I on July 18, 1870, this power has been used only once ex cathedra: in 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as being an article of faith for Roman Catholics. Prior to the solemn definition of 1870, Pope Pius IX, with the support of the overwhelming majority of Roman Catholic bishops, had proclaimed Immaculate Conception an ex cathedra dogma in December 1854.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_Infallibility

As you can see it has rarely been done, and then only after a lot of debate on that issue. Abortion re-definition as Murder in 1869 (at the same Council as Ex Cathedra was made official) was and is NOT Ex Cathedra even in the Catholic Church (Through the Catechism says the definition of Abortion as Murder if NOT a debatable point, the dogma has never been made an Ex Cathedra rule of the Pope).

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KnaveRupe Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. The infallibility is only when speaking "ex Cathedra".
In other words, unless the Pope switches on his infallibility powers before speaking, he's not ACTUALLY infallible.

But don't quote me on that. I stopped drinking the kool-aid altar wine 30 years ago.

Pretty much right after I cashed the checks I got for my Confirmation.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. That piece of 'core' Catholic dogma was a lie created by man
to award himself the powers of God.

No one with half a brain cell would ever swallow that shit. I went to Catholic schools, went to a Catholic boarding school for high school (although I only had to live there for a year). The smart girls, the ones where when you looked them in the eyes you could see there was someone home, they didn't swallow that nonsense any more than I did.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Yes it was in the 1860's and the loss of the Papal States
before that power consolidation it was considered an attack on the Pope to say he can never be wrong.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. That piece of 'core' Catholic dogma was a lie created by man
to award himself the powers and attributes of God.

No one with half a brain cell would ever swallow that shit. I went to Catholic schools, went to a Catholic boarding school for high school (although I only had to live there for a year). The smart girls, the ones where when you looked them in the eyes you could see there was someone home, they didn't swallow that nonsense any more than I did.
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. That's a very special doctrine.
It only applies when the Pope speaks "ex cathedra". It's happened maybe a half dozen times in the history of that institution.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. He's only infallible when he SAYS he's being infallible.
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 07:39 PM by Ian David
Like the time last year when he predicted The Jersey Devils would win The Stanley Cup.

The rest of the time, he's just popeing it old school.

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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Infallible my ass
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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. What is "my bad" in Latin?
Nice of him to apologise to his bishops: now how about apologising to the rest of us?
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. mea culpa
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. 
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 03:09 PM by RaleighNCDUer
Are you KIDDING?

There's nothing he would like more than to do away with both. Given half a chance he'd probably start a new crusade against protestants, too.

This guy is SOOO 14th century.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. He was turned off by some protesters in Germany while still an Archbishop
even though he was a major figure in creating the VII reforms. Since then he wants a more conservative, old style approach which the SSPX fits in.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's refreshingly human of him to do this. Morality is not only about avoiding mistakes.
But also in how to promptly admit and correct them. Pope Benedict XVI is demonstrating great leadership in this. How many sins have been perpetuated and protected in the name of papal infallibility? I see how there can be much less of that in the future.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. God must have wanted him to make that mistake. n/m
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. I watched "Deliver us From Evil" last night.
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 03:37 PM by fjc
After that, and the deep history of virulent antisemitism, it's anybody's guess as to why people stay Catholic.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. He was infallible when he admitted his mistakes
ex cathedra. :think:
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. So, we don't have to take him sriesly about excommunicating Dems for PRO CHOICE deals? n/t
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