Chavez orders nationalization of Cargill

[Grinchie]

Source: CNN.com

CNN) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Wednesday he had ordered the nationalization of at least some of the operations of the U.S.-based food giant Cargill and threatened to do the same with the Caracas-based food maker Polar.

Cargill, which is privately owned, has been doing business since 1986 in Venezuela, where its operations include oilseed processing, grain and oilseeds trading, animal feed, salt, and financial and risk management.

It has 2,000 employees in 22 locations in Venezuela, according to its Web site.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/03/04/venezuela.cargill/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

---

Bam!
Take that International Fruit! er, I mean Cargill! I'm kind of surprised that their is no High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) involved as well, but I guess Sugar cane is just too plentiful in Venezuela. Plus they don't subsidize GMO Corn so much down there.

Hate to say it, but I fully agree with this, as the horrors of Agri-Business are only now leaking out. If I were Chavez I'd throw the bums out. If I were Obama, I would investigate them, provided videos on the web that show how our food is manufactured, and actually remove any veil of secrecy these companies use to hide their processes from public scrutiny.

[davidinalameda]

1. throw them out

and the 2000 jobs that the company has created and the tax dollars that the company puts into the economy there, etc

bring those factories and those jobs back to the US

[JackRiddler]

2. Excuse me, how do you know the company "created" those jobs?

Or that the jobs will now go away because of the nationalization? Have you studied it? Can you provide citations? Because it's also possible the company merely displaced other jobs or livelihoods in the process of "creating" the 2000 jobs. (We are talking about food after all, and obviously it was being delivered to Venezuelans before Cargill's investments.) Possibly Cargill's growth in Venezuela deprived more than 2000 people of their work and income. I don't know - I'm responding to YOU. If you're going to make these assertions, they should not be knee-jerk. Show us your research. Thanks.

[davidinalameda]

7. since you're so supportive of crap like this

talk to those 2000 people who will probably be forced to take pay cuts if they don't lose their jobs outright about how great nationalization of this company is

and as a side note, I'm betting that this little ploy by Chavez doesn't last too long

wonder how much Cargill will have to pay to get their factory back from him

how is the the economy doing down there?

[JackRiddler]

14. Strawman. And you still give no links.

I didn't say whether I support "crap like this."

I confess to knowing little about this case - and I ask you either to show that YOU do by providing citations, or to confess that you, too, know little about this case. Otherwise you make get nowhere with the questions I brought up, which is also indicative.

[Chulanowa]

19. You're all over the place, aren't you?

First off, I do support nationalization of these sorts of things. Cargill is using Venezuelan resources, Venezuelan labor, Venezuelan money, and piping it all to a US bank account. Buck for buck, Venezuela loses wealth from stuff like this. Nationalizing it does a pretty good job of stanching the flow.

Will the workers take a pay cut or lose their jobs? Maybe, maybe not. But they'll at least be getting hte benefits of national health care, a stable paycheck, and for most, decent job security. Would be nice to see some of those in America, too...

As for your idea to bring the factory to the United States... Hey, not a bad idea. Of course, the people you're scraping the skin off your own ass to defend took their business to Venezuela expressly to avoid, you know, employing Americans, paying livable wages, being held to OSHA and health regulations, and all that other good stuff.

But by all means. Keep skinning that ass.

[WriteDown]

23. Nationalize Toyota and Honda in the US!

Using our resources :eyes:.

[Chulanowa]

48. Well, it'd be pretty much the only way to have an American car industry worth a damn...

[marshall]

87. I'm waiting for Obama to start talking about nationalizing some of the foreign owned industry here

A new sense of urgency and nationalism will come out of seeing the success in Chavez's Venezuela, and people in the US will begin to realize he next phase for the US.

[Rage for Order]

76. Do you think before you post?

"First off, I do support nationalization of these sorts of things. Cargill is using Venezuelan resources, Venezuelan labor, Venezuelan money, and piping it all to a US bank account. Buck for buck, Venezuela loses wealth from stuff like this. Nationalizing it does a pretty good job of stanching the flow."

Do realize that Cargill actually pays Venezuela taxes for the use of resources, pays the employees for the use of their labor, does so with company money (not Venezuela's), and does not "pipe it all to a US bank account"? Where do you think Cargill's 2,000 Venezuelan employees spend their paychecks? Hint: not in the US.

"Will the workers take a pay cut or lose their jobs? Maybe, maybe not. But they'll at least be getting hte benefits of national health care, a stable paycheck, and for most, decent job security."

The workers were already receiving a stable paycheck and decent job security as employees of Cargill, and as citizens of Venezuela they were already getting the benefits of national health care. It seems the only thing they weren't faced with before now was the prospect of pay cuts or job losses.

"As for your idea to bring the factory to the United States... Hey, not a bad idea. Of course, the people you're scraping the skin off your own ass to defend took their business to Venezuela expressly to avoid, you know, employing Americans, paying livable wages, being held to OSHA and health regulations, and all that other good stuff."

What makes you think that a plant in the US was closed down in order to open this plant in Venezuela? The article in the OP states that Cargill has been doing business in Venezuela since 1986 - 23 years. Perhaps they opened the plant in Venezuela to produce products intended for sale in South America, thereby reducing shipping costs, storage costs, making it easier to navigate through customs, and other advantages you obviously haven't considered.

The rice mill cited by Chavez was designed exclusively to manufacture parboiled rice, which the company has done at this site for the last seven years and elsewhere in the country for 13 years. Sounds like they've been compliant for quite a while. It seems odd that they would jeopardize their Venezuelan operations in an attempt to make a few extra bucks in an illegal fashion. The company is smart enough not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg, so to speak. So what has changed?

[fascisthunter]

38. LOL... all hail Corporations and Business

fuck the people

[Pavulon]

3. mugabe should be a lesson..

but he will not learn. He says he will pay them with worthless paper from a one trick petro state economy. Oh well, codb in third world nations.

Watch as it falls apart. Man in red will not go hungry.

[Hardrada]

6. Cynic

[JackRiddler]

30. ooga booga! invoke unrelated magic antecedent, win argument...

We're going to need a new Godwin's Law for Mugabe mentions.

[Pavulon]

51. Aww, care to post some intelligent content

about what happens to foreign cash when a country starts seizing assets? Hint it don't go up.

Seems an oil glut is proving a problem for them.

[JackRiddler]

58. Is this supposed to be a joke?

You idea with Chavez is to invoke Mugabe and you think that's smart? Chavez hasn't stolen elections, the opposition is left free (to organize his downfall with help from CIA), Venezuela has experienced growth and is in no way comparable to Zimbabwe.

As the world economic crisis caused by free market religion in the US hits everywhere, make sure you tell us how Venezuela's problems as one of 212 countries screwed by Wall Street are entirely the fault of its lack of faith in private capital!

As to your question, Cuba seized assets and has done very well... even withstood the withdrawal of cheap oil. Better standard of living than most other Caribbean or Latin American countries. No comparison to Central America, where foreign assets were well protected by enforcement operations run by the CIA and the people paid for it.

And no comparison of Venezuela before and after Chavez. Before, 70 percent poverty, 120 percent inflation, thousands of people shot dead for street protests. But hey, American capital was free to exploit the shit out of the workers, that's the freedom you honor.

[Pavulon]

71. Cuba is great

last time I was there it was so great I just wanted to stay. Oh wait, censorship, people leaving on rafts. Sounds like a paradise.

PS cuba is 3rd world. SO is VZ. Hillside slums are really cool. Bet you would move into a stinky shit shack in a minute.

Lets see how well they do with oil at 30 a bbl. So they will take assets they need and eventually implode. Like zim..

The cia, 80's or jeusus are not part of this current situation. Only a myopic fat man in a red shirt who thinks he is bolivar.

[JackRiddler]

73. PS - Cuba is not just third world...

It's the best place to live in the third world. Certainly in the region.

So what's your point, VZ is still poor? What does that have to do with your Chavez hate, since it's less poor than it was before?

And if CIA no longer has a say (other than to constantly try to kill the elected leader and install a death-squad dictatorship), then why do you think that is? Because people fought for leaders like Chavez, and he fought for them. That's why.

And no, I wouldn't move into the shitty shack voluntarily. But if I lived in it, I'd vote for Chavez. So that I'd have a chance of something better. And that's why the VZ majority have voted for him many times.

.

[Pavulon]

86. SO great no one can leave

I would love the government to keep me prisoner.

Venezuelans can leave if they choose, for now that is.

[JackRiddler]

88. If they can't leave, then how is it that 1.5 million left...

for the free green card?

And why do 10 million stay? Why do they vote in elections?

[Pavulon]

89. Please. Did they fly here? Take a safe boat?

no they made open water journeys that claimed lives. You an I both know that is bullshit.

Cuba limits access to media and free movement.

[JackRiddler]

91. What about the Mexican illegals? Do they fly here? Take a safe boat?

They don't get a green card when they arrive, though.

The US limits access to free movement - for example, mine to Cuba. Have you been there?

[Pavulon]

93. Technically no

but if i have been in a sail boat i certainly spent NO MONEY there. But I sailed on out of there with no problems.

Ever been to N korea? NO? Hit it up and tell me how it is.

[JackRiddler]

94. What does North Korea have to do with it?

Perhaps you should compare Cuba in the last 50 years to countries in the same region with a similar level of economic development, for example such free-market paradises as El Salvador and Guatemala and, well, Mexico.

[Pavulon]

98. Border gurads Point guns IN in N. Korea

just like cuba they have to enslave their population as anyone who had the means to leave would. I have been to cuba and it is not some happy paradise. It is not a terrible place either. Normal people going about their lives.

I think people can leave el salvador if they want to.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Good! nt

[KittyWampus]

74. Foreign investments will dry up. Not good.

[Renew Deal]

5. Ahhh, the smell of freedom

The parade of Chavez sycophants will be here any minute to tell us how this is a good thing.

[davidinalameda]

8. they've already arrived

see my previous post

[KT2000]

9. Yeah!!

It's place to start.
Does Monsanto operate in Venezuela?

[defendandprotect]

10. Lovely, lovely to see someone standing up to exploiters . . .

but I doubt Chavez will be alive very long after this--!!!!

Quite some courage he has -- what we need in the world!!!

[WriteDown]

24. Time to nationalize Citgo in the US.

Maybe Sony too.

[Bacchus39]

44. I suggested a similar strategy of nationalizing foreign owned refineries in the US

about a year or so ago. The people cheerleading Chavez's nationalizing oil company assets at the time didn't seem as supportive of the US acting the same way.

[Robbien]

11. The elite of Venezuela are whining they have to stop gouging the public

The elite Whine. "We don't care that people are starving since we doubled, tripled our prices. We don't care that we are manipulating the market. WE WANT ENORMOUS PROFITS. Let the suckers starve."

Chavez says no.

[No Elephants]

18. Which makes them pretty much like the elite of any country.

[onehandle]

12. Chavez is a dead man.

I predict he won't live to see Summer.

[conspirator]

28. No he is not. Chavez, like Castro, knows how to surround himself

Only Che was not smart enough

[JackRiddler]

31. Hell with your (presumably wishful) prediction.

[jakefrep]

90. He deserves it. Chavez is a scumbag and a thief.

[Judi Lynn]

95. Post your links to substantiate your assertions. I'm sure you've got some, don't you?

For sound reasons people don't feel tempted to accept slurs against people without a foundation, well-balanced people, that is.

Right wingers clearly are all too happy to spread filth around about leftists.

[Selatius]

99. That is not for you to judge. Venezuelan voters decide, not you.

He has been constantly re-elected by the voters down there. I'm sure many Americans would bristle if a foreigner said JFK "deserves it" as far as assassination goes.

[Mika]

13. I see the apologists of corporate exploitation are here defending big AG and their hit squads.

[WriteDown]

25. Nationalize Apple in the US...

damn multi-national corporate exploitists :eyes:.

[KittyWampus]

75. LOL! And some DU'ers are too stupid to grasp the obvious truth that foreign capital will dry up

[truthisfreedom]

15. Hmm. Cargill?

The Cargill family will not be pleased.

[Grinchie]

16. Back in 2000, before 9/11, there was a coup attempt on Chavez

I remember distinctly, as Google was not so censored as it is now, that there were indications that Negroponte, Poindexter and others were involved with the Coup in 2000. The Coup failed because the Venezuelen people found Chavez very popular, and supported him totally. The Coup, which was peurported to have been financed by the U.S. failed. Links to training people involved in the coup was reported to have occurred in Florida. The U.S refused to extridite the leader of the leader, and provided him sanctuary here in the U.S.

Since that time, we have seen information regarding Venezuela clamped. The Bush Neo-Cons were infuriated that they failed in what appeared and just another toppling of a pro leftist socially oriented banana republic.

Assasinating Chavez would only trigger a bloodbath and revolution like nothing the U.S. has seen. The U.s. is known to be complicit in attempting to destabilize Chavez for the past decade, and I think even the Neo-Cons know that and accident involving Hugo Chavez is a non starter. Now there is the democratically elected president of Bolivia - Evo Morales, asking the DEA to leave due to interference in realms where it should not be, and other nations that find U.S. Policies distateful.

The only so called allies left in South America is Uribe, and he is a certifiable piece of shit. Brazil has been virtually levelled by the multi-national corporations, and when they figure out what they have lost in the name of GMO Soybeans, they are going to be pissed.

Now we see stories of economic distress in Venezuela, but we have no details whatsoever. This alone leads me to suspect that major pressure is being placed upon Venezuala, especially since the Russians recently visited Chavez, and sailed the waters of Venezuela with their Navy.

We are not seeing the full story, and I was hoping that someone reading this post would have more insight on the apparently sudden cause of inflation and price increases reported to be hitting Venezuela. I sincerely doubt that Chavez is doing this punitavely without good cause. He may be a hothead latino, but he certainly has a record of taking care of his people and calling out the captitalists when they take too much.

[tkmorris]

17. Cargill has been evading govt price controls

They have been insisting upon producing "parboiled" rice, which isn't subject to controls, instead of raw, basic rice, which is. The vastly more expensive parboiled rice is widely available in Venezuela but there is a shortage of plain rice, which is a food staple for the poorest Venezuelans.

Chavez appears to believe that Venezuelan land should not be used by corporations to make a maximum profit while Venezuelan citizens go hungry. I'm not sure I can find anything unethical about such a position.

[WriteDown]

26. Odd..

Not wanting to produce a product at a loss? Why wouldn't they want to do that? Would you take a pay cut at your job if it costs you more to drive to your job then actually get paid?

[quakerboy]

32. Odd, the leader of a country

deciding to make sure that a staple product is available, and screw whether a company prefers to make a bigger profit rather than providing the best option to the populace and make a lower profit.

Actually, in the grander scheme, that is pretty odd.

[WriteDown]

33. Like I said....

Would you work for less than your commute costs to your job. If if was for the greater good or the company? Doubtful. Imagine if you opened a pizza shop in Venezuela and made the best pizza ever for 2$ pie. Your cheese pizza costs about 1$ a pie and you make about 1$ profit. You are told by the Venezuelan govt that cheese pizza is a staple and your 2$ price is too high, and therefore you need to start selling them at 99 cents a piece. What would you do personally?

This policy reminds me of someone else

[Incitatus]

34. Do we know for a fact that the price controls were below cost?

source?

[WriteDown]

35. Below cost is what leads to shortages....

You can hoard all you want, but you're not moving volume which affects your profits just as much. A better question is who set the price control and what measure they used (if any).

[quakerboy]

36. Is the cheaper rice

Sold below cost? I doubt it.

The more likely scenario is that the company makes .05 cents profit(after paying employees their normal wage) on the cheaper rice, and .35 a pound on the more expensive processed rice. So they chose to make the more expensive, even though the people of the country cannot afford the more expensive. If they can sell half as much expensive rice, they make 3.5 times the profit(and may even be able to raise that margin some by hiring fewer people, since less rice is flowing through). And who cares who starves, cause the guys running it aren't.

Show me this isn't the case, and I will listen to what you say. My experience of life tells me your scenario is not terribly likely and mine is almost a lock for the reality of the situation.

[WriteDown]

37. You provided the figures....

You show me.

Strange that you make it a choice though. If only a small part of your market can afford the premium rice then it seems that you are ignoring a large portion of your market. You could therefore sell both kinds of rice and maximize profits. Or another company could come in and sell to the underutilized market. Kind of like a myriad of competition showed up to compete with Starbucks(I'm a Seattle's Best fan myself).

edited for clarity.

[quakerboy]

46. You would think.

You started the discussion making an assertion of what was happening there.

But if you control the supply, for instance, it might be hard for a competitor to spring up.

And if you sell both types of rice as dictated by demand, you might sell 100 pounds of cheap and 10 pounds of premium rice, thus making 3.50+5.00, totaling 8.50 profit. But if you limit the availability of cheap rice, and sell only 10 pounds of it, and people are forced to buy spendy rice because they still have to eat whether, though you only sell 50 pounds, that means you make .50+17.50 for a total of 18.00 profit

Given your experience in life, which is more likely? It would seem to me that Mr Chavez's actions would be seem to make more sense given my scenario. In the end, though, its on him to convince his people.

[WriteDown]

47. So people are forced to buy "spendy"

rice which they cannot afford? How does that work. Also, if people can afford "spendy" rice, why would you create a shortage? Wouldn't you just maximize the production of this rice, but just require a high price? Very puzzling.

[quakerboy]

49. Right

If the ground can only produce 110 pounds of rice, and I own the ground and thus the rice coming out of it.... and can control what happens to that rice

If the only rice I choose to make is "premium" then people will buy premium or starve. That is how a person can be forced to buy a particular type.

If there are price controls, then the cheap rice has a price limit. So I can't just raise the price to raise my profits. Unless I switch to the another type of rice that does not have price limits. Then I can. And that is what they are accused of having done.

Not so puzzling really. Just read the article.

[WriteDown]

50. Ground....

Rice can't be imported? Where do you think the rice comes from on your grocery store shelves? It keeps remarkably well, which is what makes it such a useful basic foodstuff. The article is about shortages. The markets in Venezuela are empty of any rice, "spendy", basic, etc. There is no glut of "spendy" rice and a simple importer can come in and take advantage of the low-end market if this was a normal situation. A great example in the US is coffee beans. How many coffee beans are grown in the US? Probably less than 5%, but there are several different brands and all sorts of price tiers.

Edited for punctuation

Here's also more info on the general subject

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4599260.stm

[Igel]

42. People don't read.

Or, if they do, they automatically gloss over anything that doesn't make it past their filters.

Nobody's commented on a crucial bit of information or its accuracy.

'He said a rice mill cited by Chavez "was designed exclusively to manufacture parboiled rice, which the company has done at this site for the last seven years and elsewhere in the country for 13 years.'

Somebody's wrong. If Cargill's right, Chavez is saying, in effect: Look, you changed over a plant in the last few months which has been unchanged for 7 years in order to avoid price controls. I want you to go back to producing what the plant's not designed to produce and hasn't produced because by continuing what it's always done it's suddenly violating a law saying what the plant must produce.

It seems like a falsifiable statement: Either Chavez is wrong or Cargill is wrong, and personally neither has high credibility. Chavez has been pushing nationalism out of every one of his orifices, and has a problem with low-level facts that don't jibe with his views. Cargill has no reason to support Chavez, since Chavez is saying that Cargill's companies serve at Chavez' pleasure and is an enemy. Enemies have no reason to play fair. Warfare is deceit, no?

[WriteDown]

53. Good catch...

I need to read more thoroughly.

[EFerrari]

57. Some people don't read. The law is that Cargill has to produce

85% white rice, not 85% high priced, unregulated product as they are currently doing. They've also been neglecting to print the price on their product.

Cargill is not wrong, they're spinning.

Remember shortages have been on of the biggest bats raised against Chavez. Food production and transportation have largely been in the hands of his opposition. He's got plenty of reasons to work this out.

Cargill maybe not so much. They don't do very much in Venezuela anyway. If they get paid to go away, I doubt it will matter to them very much. They're vampires, anyway.

[Rage for Order]

77. Did you bother to read the article?

(Mark Klein, a spokesman for Cargill,) said a rice mill cited by Chavez "was designed exclusively to manufacture parboiled rice, which the company has done at this site for the last seven years and elsewhere in the country for 13 years."

The plant was designed to produce parboiled rice, and has been doing so for 7 years. It's not like they suddenly switched over to parboiled rice in an attempt to get around price controls.

[Lost in CT]

79. Good for them... govt price controls only create shortages and starve the populace. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Incredible - the story is about rice, but it took until reply #17 for someone to mention that

DUers, life does not always revolve around you and you personal obsessions. This isn't about HFCS, or jobs and profits of American companies, and not much about the past political positions of Chavez, either.

It's about a staple food supply in Venezuela. Not corn, not sugar cane, and not HFCS: about rice.

[Belial]

21. Wonder if other countries will start to follow this course?

[Nihil]

29. Thank you!

> It's about a staple food supply in Venezuela.

Unfortunately, commenting on the facts of this case would require
reading & writing rather than just cutting & pasting the same old
tired clips yet again ... hence the wait until #17 ...
:banghead:

[fascisthunter]

39. danke

[Kajsa]

52. Thank You, Muriel!

Somehow that fact got lost in the tangle.

Affordable rice is perhaps the most basic food staple
around the world.

That's why it's so damn important.

Thank you,again.

:)

[cobalt1999]

22. Simple math will eventually catch up with Chavez

With a 30% inflation rate, there is no way to keep food prices from going up or be provided by companies at price control levels. When the companies lose money, they have to either reduce production & costs, close plants, or shut down completely.

When Chavez nationalizes them, then the government is basically subsidizing the production of food and making up for the short fall between production costs and sell price.

That's great as long as the government has the money to subsidize all of Chavez's programs. If they don't, then inflation really kicks in and the government programs completely collapse under their own weight.

It'll be interesting to watch because oil prices aren't providing the external cash flow anymore and won't for the foreseeable future either.

[scrinmaster]

27. No sane company is going to risk investing in Venezuala now.

If their operations can be nationalized at the drop of the hat, they'll find another, safer country to set up shop in. Chavez is really killing the goose that laid the golden egg here, 5-10% of something is more than 100% of nothing.

[Tempest]

40. That's what was said when Chavez nationalized oil

And yet all but one of the companies operating in Venezuala signed new agreements with the government.

[Bacchus39]

41. and after taking over majority control, the Ven. government is asking them to invest more

due to the economic downturn.

[Ignis]

43. "at the drop of a hat" --> try RTFA next time (nt)

[Bacchus39]

45. I second the motion to nationalize Citgo and the Hovensa refinery too

until they sell gas below cost.

[Abq_Sarah]

54. Uh

If they sell gas below cost, how do they pay their employees?

[Bacchus39]

55. follow the Cargill model maybe???

Hugo thinks it will work.

[Abq_Sarah]

56. I've no love for Cargill but

This is a stunt and Hugo planned it long ago.

What the hell is he going to do when he runs out of other people to blame?

[EFerrari]

60. The guy that pulled this "stunt" has done more to improve his country's food security

than any sitting leader on the American continent in the last ten years. Oh, that Hugo! What an attention whore he is!

[Bacchus39]

66. that is completely false. Ven is a net food importer

I thought you were always seeking the truth!!!!



The OPEC member is now one of Latin America's few net food importers. Oil contributes to a strong currency, meaning it is often cheaper to import food than produce it domestically.

A weaker currency would help farmers compete, but Venezuela is still a long way from being self sufficient in food.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5246OO20090305?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0


But Venezuela, unlike many of its neighbors, has long imported most of its food, and uses less than 30 percent of its arable land to its full potential, according to the United Nations

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/17/world/americas/17venezuela.html?pagewanted=all

[Lost in CT]

80. What the hell are you talking about... high inflation and food shortages is not an improvement.

You know most countries learned this lesson some 70 years ago...

[EFerrari]

81. I'm talking about a poverty rate cut in half and food security being made policy.

It's pretty hard to judge "improvement" unless you know where you started from, isn't it?


ECLAC confirms important social advances in Venezuela

The Executive Secretary of the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean of the United Nations (ECLAC), Ana Bárcena, confirmed the positive social statistics referred to by President Hugo Chávez during an interview with journalist Patricia Janiot last week on CNN. (Click here to watch the interview.)

Bárcena, in an interview with Luis Carlos Vélez on CNN en Español, emphasized that Venezuela made “very important” progress between 2002 and 2007 in areas like reducing unemployment and the fight against poverty.

“The data I can corroborate are that the unemployment rate fell from 11% to 7.4%; the extreme poverty rate effectively went from 25% to 8.5% as of 2007. . . . Poverty from 51 to 28%,” said Bárcena after being asked about the figures used by President Chávez.

In that interview, the President affirmed that the ECLAC recognized Venezuela as having the lowest inequality in Latin America. He also noted that the United Nations highlighted Venezuela as among the countries with the highest level of human development in the region, and presented data that showed a reduction in poverty.
http://www.embavenez-us.org/news.php?nid=4836


Poverty Rates in Venezuela:
Getting the Numbers Right

By Mark Weisbrot, Luis Sandoval, and David Rosnick

Mark Weisbrot is co-director, Luis Sandoval is a research assistant, and David Rosnick is a research associate at the Center for Economic and Policy Research. Dean Baker provided valuable comments, and Nihar Bhatt and Kathryn Bogel provided valuable research assistance.
Introduction

Over the past year, the statement that poverty in Venezuela has increased under the government of President Hugo Chávez has appeared in scores of major newspapers, on major television and radio programs, and even journals such as Foreign Affairs1 and Foreign Policy.2 (See Appendix for a sample of such statements.) These statements have only rarely been contested or corrected.

For example, writing in the May/June 2006 issue of Foreign Affairs, Mexico’s former Foreign Minister Jorge Castañeda stated that “Venezuela’s poverty figures and human development indices have deteriorated since 1999, when Chávez took office.”3 A May 11, 2006 news article in the Financial Times was headlined “Chavez opts for oil-fuelled world tour while progress slows on social issues; Challengers point to failures in housing and poverty ahead of December's elections,”4 and questions whether poverty has been reduced under the Chávez administration.

This paper looks at the available data on poverty in Venezuela, which show a reduction in poverty since 1999, as well as related economic data. The paper also briefly notes how some of the mistakes surrounding the discussion of this issue have been made. Finally, we also look at the impact of the provision of health care to the poor, which has been greatly expanded over the last few years.
http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/ceprpov.htm

[EFerrari]

59. They have more than one product. n/t

[Abq_Sarah]

61. So?

[EFerrari]

62. The answer to your question may require math.

If you make / sell one product for under cost and you sell other products for a profit, you wind up with a profit margin that is an average.

Cargill is not losing money.

[Abq_Sarah]

63. I'm a business owner

If I have two production plants and I am forced to sell the product produced in one for a loss, I am losing money at that plant. I am forced to use whatever profits I have from the second plant to pay the employees, rent, electricity, etc... from the first plant. The problem isn't Cargill or the other manufacturers who are going to have their property taken. The problem is Hugo and his horrible economy. You can only "expropriate" so much before there's nothing left to take and no one left to blame.

[EFerrari]

64. That's your model. Cargill is not losing money.

And in expropriation, their property will not be "taken".

[Abq_Sarah]

65. They are losing money at that particular plant

And Chavez hasn't paid for the property he "expropriated" last year. He has no money now that the price of oil has dropped. He is "paying" owners with worthless bonds.

Seriously, I see nothing to cheer about in this. Chavez had guaranteed perpetual poverty for many of his people. His actions will keep them poor.

[EFerrari]

68. Well, no. The government hasn't defaulted on anything,

they're renegotiating contracts and Chavez is busting these @ssholes for breaking the law. The opposition has been in control of food supply until now. They can't be allowed to remain in control of supply because their aim is obstruction, not supply.

And I will just add your prediction to all the other ones that have yet to come to pass. I may be wrong but so far you Chavez bashers are 0 for all your dire pronouncements.

[Bacchus39]

69. I think business' aim is to make money

d

[Abq_Sarah]

70. Yeah, we were completely

Wrong when we claimed he was going to ruin his economy and ensure term limits didn't apply to him.

He was riding high with the poor when he could throw a couple of sacks of rice their way due to high oil prices. Now that they've dropped back down, he has to find someone else to demonize because with Hugo, nothing is EVER his fault.

[EFerrari]

82. Baloney. Maybe you have some other objective measure

of how well Venezuela is doing. The vastly improved economic equity rate, the reduction of extreme poverty by 75% and poverty in general by 50% is my measure.

But, I hear the oligarchs are very unhappy right now. Especially since they've lost millions to their boy Stanford because they didn't trust their money to Chavez. lol

And, btw, it was Chavez going into the media and taking personal responsibility for his own failed coup attempt that made him popular in the first place.

[Bacchus39]

67. quite the financial genius

what if the product that sells for less than cost is the one that people buy most??

got any stock tips?


Cargill isn't in Venezuela to lose money and promote Chavez's agenda either.

[dbackjon]

72. Seize Citgo!

[JackRiddler]

92. That ain't happening. For obvious reasons.

Gee, VZ and the other oil nations have power over the US... and it's going to grow. How did that happen? If you believe in the old imperialism, it must really suck to see it reverse itself.

[crimsonblue]

78. hmm... the president would have no right in disclosing private business interactions

The products of Cargill have been determined to be safe by the FDA, so I don't really get what you're going at here. Maybe it's just your irrational hatred towards everything corporate.

[EFerrari]

83. What private business transactions? They were breaking the law.

And please don't tell me your using THE FDA as some kind of benevolent authority!

[crimsonblue]

84. Do you have proof Cargill is breaking the law?

The means of production are trade secrets, and the President can't just unilaterally disclose them. Not to mention the fact that he doesn't even know what their business practices are. The only way to find out what Cargill is doing is either starting a federal investigation or filing a lawsuit. We live in America; even corporations are innocent until proven guilty. You're being crazy.

[EFerrari]

85. It's simpler than that. They're supposed to produce 85% plain white rice

and they've been producing 85% fancy other product. By their own admission, that's what their factory is set up to do. They are not disputing the allegation.

And no, I'm not being crazy. lol

[BreweryYardRat]

97. Anyone know how long Chavez gave Cargill to switch the plant's production facilities to meet quotas?

I'm not too fond of either Cargill or Chavez, so I don't really have a dog in this fight.

If Chavez instituted quotas and didn't give Cargill a reasonable amount of time to switch the necessary production mechanisms over to making plain rice, Cargill's got reason to complain.

If Chavez gave Cargill a reasonable amount of time and they didn't make the necessary changes, then he's doing what he has to do to keep people fed.

[devilgrrl]

96. Hugo Chavez just doesn't understand that the business of life is business - he evil.

:popcorn: