Senator questions, prods Microsoft on inclusion of H-1B workers in layoffs

[Ichingcarpenter]

Source: Computerworld

U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) told Microsoft Corp. this week that U.S. citizens should get priority over H-1B visa holders as the software vendor moves forward on its plan to cut 5,000 jobs.
"These work visa programs were never intended to allow a company to retain foreign guest workers rather than similarly qualified American workers, when that company cuts jobs during an economic downturn," Grassley wrote in a letter sent Thursday to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer. The letter asked Microsoft to detail the types of jobs that will be eliminated and how those cuts will affect the company's H-1B workers.

"It is imperative that in implementing its layoff plan, Microsoft ensures that American workers have priority in keeping their jobs over foreign workers on visa programs," Grassley added.
In some respects, it was a letter that Grassley, a vocal critic of the H-1B program, could have sent to any number of IT vendors that have announced layoffs recently. But Microsoft has been an outspoken proponent of increasing the annual cap on H-1B visas — primarily through its chairman, Bill Gates, who has spoken in support of raising the cap in speeches and in testimony before congressional committees, most recently last March. Grassley's letter noted as much.

Read more: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9126721&intsrc=news_ts_head

[LakeSamish706]

1. Holy crap, never even thought of that but that certainly would be the question of the day.....

I wonder if other companies have also been asked this question? In fact the H-1B's should probably be terminated until all Americans have been hired first.

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. I'm surprised the letter came from a Republican first

What's up with the dems?

[kitfalbo]

6. Well..

"elected" Dems are pussy's on this subject. I agree with republicans on this.

[ChromeFoundry]

88. Kucinich has been very much a opponent of the H-1 and L-1 visas

He is one of the few Dems that actually has a solid set of balls on this issue. The rest of them are a disgrace.

http://kucinich.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1695&Itemid=48

[spindrifter]

15. Yeah, what's up with our own Dems, Murray and Cantwell??

[Acadia Blue]

23. The corporate Dems have sold us down river.

[us_citizen]

141. It's imperative that every Democrat contact their rep and let them know you're on to them

becasue it will never change if you dont

[OhioChick]

55. Durbin and Grassley Zero in on H-1B Visa Data

Durbin and Grassley Zero in on H-1B Visa Data

http://durbin.senate.gov/showRelease.cfm?releaseId=295338

From 2008. Where's Durbin at now?

[us_citizen]

142. they've sold you out

all there is to it

[MannyGoldstein]

3. The Sole Purpose Of H1-Bs Is To Drive Down Engineer Salaries

So why is it that a REPUBLICAN has to point out what a load of shit this is?

And why is it that "Democrats" are pushing for more H1-Bs? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOW0cUaGWZU

Disgraceful.

[OhioChick]

75. You're absolutely right regarding the driving down of wages....

As for Hillary, she's always been a fan of H-1B's. No surprise there.

[Matariki]

93. yeah, because god forbid a programmer make as much money as a plumber or electrician.

[ThomCat]

4. It does make you wonder if layoffs will be used

as a way of increasing the percentage of workers who are here on visas, and therefor paid less. You know that has to be in their plans somewhere from a human resources point of view. They're just debating whether or not they can get away with it.

[LakeSamish706]

5. I think that with the current job loss situation in the US, all non American citizen jobs....

ie: Green cards, H-1B's, etc. should be reviewed. If there are Americans that can do these jobs, then these people should be terminated and returned to their countries of origin until this (Recession/Depression) is over.

[People4Change]

8. Memo to Microsoft & all: there are US workers available.....

....the problem is, Microsoft and others are using the H-1B visas to bring in outside people at much lower pay levels.

My brother worked for over 20 years for a major corporation, designing software programs for them. He was making a very comfortable 6 figure salary for his skills.

About 7 years ago there was a shake up, and he and others in his department were let go but then "rehired" as independent contractors (ie no benefits or perks).

5 years ago his job moved overseas to India. After a 2 year job search in which he was told time and time again that they couldn't pay him anything close to what he previously earned, my brother is now remodeling homes & making less than $50,000 a year.

Isn't Bill Gates rich enough? How many gazillions does one man need? There is a lot of talent in this country not being utilized in the great quest to run American wages into the gutter.

[sledgehammer]

25. Yep, this is pretty pathetic

And paying H-1ers less than the prevailing wage is AGAINST THE LAW!!!

But just one point (and it could be because I understood wrong so please correct me), if your brother's job was shipped overseas, then it's not really an issue of H-1B, but an issue of offshoring (which is really a different ball game altogether, but one where the US govt has almost no way to control other than through incentives).

[w4rma]

112. And decentives. (nt)

[aggiesal]

43. I agree with your assessment, ...

In San Diego, the biggest guilty party is Qualcomm.

I have a friend that works at Qualcomm, and the way they get around these gov't regulations is really unethical.

Before they can get an H1B employee, they're supposed to advertise in a local paper and open the position to
american workers first. The positions are suppose to pay at the prevailing market wage. So in theory they should
be paying the H1B applicant the same wage as an american engineer.

First what they do is advertise in newspapers in out-of-the-way locations like Big Bear Times, or the Podunct gazette.

Knowing that these newspapers are rarely used by engineers to look for jobs, no resumes are received for these
positions, so obviously they have to turn to H1B's. Once an H1B applicant is identified, then they can throw out
prevailing wage (except half salary or go back to your pay nothing country).

His excuse is that all the other companies are also practicing this method.

Now I'm told that Qualcomm has a hiring freeze.

[glowing]

44. Same thing happens in the science field... People with degrees and

college loans to pay off expect to be paid. So, many jobs go to H-1B persons. Its disgusting the amt. of talent that the US is forfeiting for a profit margin. The idea that you can be what you want to be is a myth.

[OhioChick]

64. You're absolutely right....

Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Study-There-Is-No-Shortage-of-US-Engineers/

Research finds US H1B visa holders paid less

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2005_10_26/us/us_h1b_visa_holders_earn_less.htm

[Deja Q]

121. When I was told a bug would be fixed in a NEW RELEASE (not a patch), that was the straw.

And it's a bug that affects the products I and others make. So to have to wait -- and then pay $300 for the upgrade price or whatever the price will be. That's really sad.

[AnneD]

122. They are trying to do the same ....

to Nurses salaries here. If they could ship the sick oversea's for treatment they would. And if your surgery goes poorly in the other country-just try suing them for malpractice.

There is no shortage of Nurses-only a shortage of those Nurses willing too work unsafe conditions.

HB-1 is outsourcing jobs on our own soil.

[getthefacts]

10. I disagree

with your comment that we should return permanent residents (green card holders) to their country of origin. Some of these people waited ten years for their green cards, have established lives and families in the U.S. and are only waiting their time in order to become citizens.

We can't start to scapegoat immigrants like we did with the Irish, the Jews and the Italians in the past. This is not what America is about. We are all on this boat together and we will get out of it together. Those who saw immigration as a danger to this country where always on the wrong side of history.

Additionally, H1b's have a time limit of six years anyway.

[LakeSamish706]

12. I think that whatever needs to happen to alleviate suffering on American....

citizens as a drain on their ability to survive should be undertaken. If this means hard ship for non US citizens, I'm sorry but that is the way of the world.

[varun]

50. If you dump the workers back in their countries, the jobs will move there.

Thats the way the world works.

If you hire Americans only, the wages will become so high that the products will not be able to compete with foreign goods.

We are in a connected world now.

What you are suggesting is isolationism.

This is a recipe for disaster.

[OhioChick]

57. I Disagree Wholeheartedly.

If the jobs move elsewhere, penalize the corporations that are shipping them overseas. Close all those tax loopholes. You'll see the jobs return quickly.

[teknomanzer]

106. And if there are not enough adequately paid Americans...

Then there will be no market for the bullshit corporations consumer products - or do you think the sweatshop folks in China and the boiler room workers in India will make up for that?

[Doremus]

111. Yeah, globalism is working out so well for American workers

it would be disastrous to do anything to upset it.

:sarcasm:

[northernlights]

13. well in that case

maybe we should ship dumped American citizens on India, where they can join the street people in Calcutta. After all, why should working Americans and *guest* workers have to trip over the unemployed who've lost everything and are living in the streets here?

[spindrifter]

16. I agree. We should only eliminate the H1b's, as they are

the ones who are lowering salaries, not the green card holders.

[OhioChick]

58. Not only H-1B's but the L-1's, as well. n/t

[Azlady]

78. Not only H1-b's, there are other visa holders (not green card) programs

that are taking jobs away from US workers, the entire Visa Worker program needs to be revamped.

[ecstatic]

132. Yeah. It's too harsh a solution

and maybe I feel this way because my mother is an immigrant who worked as a registered nurse for 17 years before becoming a citizen. I understand giving US citizens the priority, but that's as far as it should go.

[robinlynne]

27. agreed. great idea!

[Runcible Spoon]

52. Green Cards? are you fucking kidding me?

My fiance is applying for green card status, I'm marrying him and we're spending thousands of dollars to go through the ridiculously complicated paperwork and interview process so that he can get his residency here. If you want to rip him away from me, you'll have ME to deal with!

H1-B's on the other hand, are usually corporate sponsored and have no promise of permanent residency. They would be the easiest to review.

But FUCK YOU if you think you should be ripping families apart! Green card holders are not here merely to work, they are here because they have family here and are sponsored by a citizen!

[ecstatic]

133. exactly nt

[OhioChick]

56. Damn Straight...

Also....the L-1's are hurting us in the tech sector.

[HopeHoops]

7. H-1B workers are indentured servants at best, and unmentionable terms beyond that.

I worked for a tech company that used a lot of H-1B workers. They were paid about half of what we were and treated like garbage. They submitted under threat of revocation. Shortly before the company was sold, they hired a hatchet man as the new president and he sliced and diced with no regard for service record or circumstances. One of those to get canned had only worked for the company for a month and had spent everything he had to bring his wife and 4 month old son to the US. With no sponsor, he was in limbo. I lost touch with him so I don't know the outcome, but it couldn't have been good.

[sledgehammer]

14. Yes and no...

Most H-1Bers work their way up through hard work and are treated with dignity. These are mainly those who have graduated from a college/university in the US, are hired competitively, and are paid the same as everyone else in the same position as them. I am a product of this process, and am now a proud citizen of the United States.

But there's a dark side to the whole program, and that is the abuse, mainly over the last 10 years. And it's quite prevalent. Some DUers had posted articles showing 30% fraud (I am not surprised by this number). Basically, these H-1Bs are hired straight from abroad based on questionable credentials, and are paid considerably less than their US counterparts. This practice is also known as body shopping. It depresses wages and affects "American" jobs negatively. And yes, some of the H-1Bers are not treated all that well - this is true, but it's relatively a minority.

There are some ways to end the abuse. One is to raise the H-1 hiring fee, especially on those who are not hired competitively. If it's worth it to hire the H-1, then put your money where your mouth is. Another is better oversight, especially on wage discrepancy (it's not that hard to do).

The abuse in the H-1 program needs to end, as well as the abuse in the L-1 (where massive abuse exists). Grassley and Durbin have brought the abuse to attention since last year. Good for them!

[spindrifter]

17. The companies also operate fraudulently when

they "pretend" to look for citizens to take the jobs, but do not actually do so.

[sledgehammer]

21. Yes, that's also part of the abuse

And it only makes sense for the companies if they are paying the H-1s less. So if you have oversight on wage discrepancy, or jack up the H-1 fees, then it reduces this abuse automatically.

When companies pay the same, then they hire competitively from the getgo. Every H-1 I know who was hired from college/university was interviewed in the same pool as everyone else, and hired at the same salary. Therefore, in most cases, the companies are hiring the most qualified person. Especially so since they have to dish out extra bucks for the fees and paperwork required to process the H-1er toward a green card. This cost can be around 10-15k over the 3-4 years it takes for the green card, and it's often a hassle for the company to deal with.

Most companies don't even hire H-1s (and that's totally fair). When I was interviewing in my college senior year (during the tech boom days) it was only around 20-30% of the 300+ companies at our career fair that were willing to consider H-1s, and some had extra academic/work experience requirements to justify the hassle of hiring an H-1.

[OhioChick]

63. Like this?

DOJ settles H-1B job ad case for $45,000

Complaint filed by Programmers Guild over H-1B-only job ad

May 2, 2008 (Computerworld) A Pittsburgh-based computer consulting company that advertised for H-1B visa holders only is paying $45,000 in civil penalties to settle allegations that it discriminated against U.S. citizens, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) said Thursday.

The company, iGate Mastech Inc., placed 30 job announcements between May and June of 2006 "for computer programmers that expressly favored H-1B visa holders to the exclusion of U.S. citizens, lawful permanent residents and other legal U.S. workers," the DOJ said in a statement.

A complaint against iGate Mastech was filed by the Programmers Guild in 2006. It was one of dozens of complaints lodged by the Summit, N.J.-based organization against various companies.

John Miano, who founded the guild, said in a statement that the DOJ's announcement was "is probably the most visible result" of the guild's campaign against companies that discriminate against U.S. workers "in favor of cheap H-1B workers."

One job advertisement by iGate Mastech for a Java developer on Dice Holdings Inc.'s job board said "Only H-1s apply, and should be willing to transfer H-1B."

"The problem of companies only looking for H-1B workers is a serious one," said Miano. "We are only scratching the surface right now with the companies that are brazen enough to put out ads like these."

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9081898&intsrc=hm_list

Pfizer Accused of Using U.S. Workers to Train Foreign Replacements

Pfizer's outsourcing contract with Infosys Technologies and Satyam Computer Services means job losses for IT workers in Connecticut. Many U.S.-based contractors are complaining that they are being asked to train H-1B workers who will soon replace them.

Pfizer is taking flak for what detractors charge is a plan to use U.S. workers to train the foreign contractors that will replace them during a years-long outsourcing project.

Contractors in the company's Groton and New London, Conn., R&D facilities—many of whom are either former full-time staffers or replaced Connecticut-based staff—are complaining that foreign workers on H-1B visas are coming in to be trained on the company's systems, according to local newspaper The Day.

Those temporary workers are scheduled to return to India, where they will run the same systems as part of an outsourcing deal Pfizer signed in 2005 with Infosys Technologies and Satyam Computer Services.

The complaints about IT contractors are part of a larger swell of discontent focused on Procedure 117, a policy Pfizer instituted in January that requires the closure of even long-term contractor arrangements as those terms expire. It also institutes conditions—and some say harsh ones—on which contractors in IT and other specialties may or may not be able to continue to work with Pfizer.

U.S. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., and U.S. Rep. Joe Courtney, D-2nd District, who represent the region, sent a letter to Pfizer asking the company to reconsider laying off U.S.-based workers in Connecticut.

The situation, as reported by The Day, is unpleasant for U.S.-based IT workers, but not terribly unusual for companies shifting IT operations overseas during major outsourcing deals.

Calls to Pfizer requesting confirmation or comment were not returned. In a public statement the company said it was continuing to evolve IT operations "to meet global business challenges and look for efficiencies to help better manage operations, which include the use of contract workers on an as-needed basis."

Pfizer circulated an internal memo in 2005 saying it would try to cut $4 billion from its annual operating costs by 2008, largely by moving IT and other operations from the United States and Europe to countries with lower costs of living.

The memo, entitled "Evaluating Options: Moving IT Services to Low-Cost Locations," outlined a plan to shift much of the company's IT operations to Indian IT services firms Infosys and Satyam.

It's not illegal for companies to bring in H-1B workers for training, even if they're there to learn how to replace U.S. workers, according to Ron Hira, assistant professor of public policy at Rochester Institute of Technology and co-author of "Outsourcing America."

"It's not surprising to have a company bring in H-1B or L-1 visas to transition that work to companies like Infosys and Satya, which are classified as H-1B-dependent because more than 15 percent of their work forces here are on visas," Hira said. "Still, you shouldn't have to dig your own grave by bringing in someone on an H-1B and training them to do your job."

Pfizer has between 800 and 1,000 contractors working in Groton and New London on any given day, alongside about 4,500 full-time workers, according to The Day.

The IT outsourcing contract is only one part of Pfizer's overall outsourcing and reorganization plan, which includes offshoring much of its manufacturing and raw-material production and acquisition. Pfizer cut more than 11,000 jobs in 2007 and closed a number of factories in an attempt to save $2 billion in operating costs, according to Bloomberg News.

Much of the reconsolidation was sparked by the approaching end of the patent and exclusive-manufacturing rights to anti-cholesterol drug Lipitor and negative publicity about the effects of its anti-smoking drug Chantix. The two are among the company's most profitable products.

Pfizer, the world's largest drug maker, announced in October that its third-quarter net income had risen to $2.28 billion compared with $761 million in 2007, when it took a $2.8 billion charge for the failed development of an inhalant version of insulin. The company said cost-cutting played a major role in improving its net income during the quarter.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Pfizer-Accused-of-Using-US-Workers-to-Train-Foreign-Replacements/

[cap]

20. how about we don't need H1b's any more

we have a very high unemployment rate. We need to hire our own and not define the jobs so narrowly. Let people retrain. The people we are laying off can't pay their mortgages and this is screwing everyone up financially.

[sledgehammer]

24. I can see the argument here...

But, as I have discussed in previous threads, then it shouldn't be limited to H-1Bs. It should apply to all immigration - family sponsorship, asylum, students, diversity visa, artists, etc. Every immigrant who comes to America takes a job (or other resource) away from an "American."

Immigration is one of America's greatest traditions, and has been a strategic success for America for many many decades. Immigration needs to continue, and this includes the H-1 program. However, as with any policy, it should be flexible enough to be modified based on the prevailing environment. So a temporary reduction, more stringent requirements, etc. are perhaps in order. But going down the path of ending legal immigration programs is against the spirit of this great country.

And realistically, Obama is not going to make any changes such as ending immigration programs. His own father was here on a student visa, so his perspective toward those who come to America on student/work visas is going to be sympathetic.

Sidenote: I rarely see outrage on DU against illegal immigrants. These are people who have had a far, far greater impact on the job market and don't pay any taxes. And, they have knowingly broken the law. Yet, it's the H-1Bers (who pay taxes and have not broken the law) who are the first to be picked on in a declining employment market.

[robinlynne]

28. hib is not immigration! It is not about immigration. It is about going around

immigration law in the same way jumping over a fence is going around immigration law. I say that becuase these people would not be immigrants, period. If they could be, h1b visas would not exist.

[sledgehammer]

30. H-1Bers become immigrants

H-1 is a nonimmigrant visa initially, but it leads to permanent residence. I was on H-1B out of college, got my green card in about 4 years, and then a citizen after another 5 years.

It's been a way for America to attract educated people - not necessarily the best and the brightest as is commonly touted, but often it's highly educated and skilled people.

As an example of the program working well, look at doctoral programs in the US (in all fields except maybe liberal arts) and you will see it's mostly comprised of non-Americans. The US wants to keep these people since they are extremely skilled in specific areas and are exposed to unique research. So the H-1 visa is used to keep them here.

H-1 has a lot of abuse, and it's because of this abuse that the program has been maligned. I can totally see the perspective of someone critical of and antagonistic toward the program. But I do think that it's a valuable program, just like other legal immigration programs, as long as proper oversight and commonsense rules are implemented.

[notesdev]

32. "as long as"

"as long as proper oversight and commonsense rules are implemented."

Hard to do in an environment where anybody can freely bribe almost any elected official in broad daylight under the guise of business as usual. Check out the bang up job the overseers at the SEC did.

[sledgehammer]

36. Absolutely agreed!

Accountability and oversight have been non-existent for the last 8 years in every area. And this would include immigration/work visas/H-1s of course. The abuse of the program has been rampant in these years, though it did start in the late 90s (but perhaps went unnoticed for a few years).

Looking for some real CHANGE here! More oversight, more accountability!

[sledgehammer]

33. And going from H-1 to immigration is absolutely legal

Comparing it with jumping over a fence is inaccurate and insulting. However, if it was your intention to insult, then you have succeeded.

Now, some companies are breaking the law (not interviewing US candidates, paying significantly less than prevailing wage, hiring on unverified credentials, etc). That's a failure of oversight not to catch them. And when they are caught, they fines are just pitiful! If you took away the H-1 abuse, you'd solve a lot of problems.

Illegal immigration is just as the name implies - illegal! From the moment an illegal immigrant enters and everyday he/she is in the country and not paying taxes, it's all illegal! Yet, there is often sympathy with illegal immigrants among liberals. Don't H-1ers also have families, and aren't they also looking for the promised land?

[amandabeech]

102. There are people here who are outraged.

You're a newby, so you haven't been around for the hot immigration threads.

If you stick around long enough, you'll see them.

[sledgehammer]

107. I joined DU after being a long-time reader...

...specifically to share my views on the H-1/immigration issues. I am one of millions of proud and dedicated American citizens who have benefited from legal immigration programs (in my case, the F-1 student visa, and then the H-1B work visa). I have been a part of some interesting immigration threads since I joined, and have learned a lot from fellow DU posters.

Immigration is one of main things that makes America great, and calling for an end to legal immigration programs (as is often expressed on such threads) is a slippery and dangerous slope. But, when programs are abused as badly as they have been with H-1s and L-1s, and/or they lack some commonsense modifications in adverse times, I can understand (and am part of) the outrage.

However, it does surprise me that very little outrage is directed toward illegal immigration on this site (and among liberals in general) in the face of increasing unemployment and worsening economic conditions, but yet there is so much ill-will toward H-1Bers.

[cap]

108. I have no problem with immigration where there is a need

I think there should be a very small quota for true experts -- ie PhD Oxford in a hot R&D specialty. But we don't need a large H1b or L visa for average skills aka Java programmer. All H1b java programmers should go home. They are not needed. We have enough laid off engineers of our own to employ. Also, there is a displacement factor for native born trainees. We need to ensure that enough of our own trainees can get jobs. Remember the purpose of H1B and L is overflow, not displacement.

I think this might end the overflow of non-citizens in PhD programs. Citizens with PhDs in STEM do not get hired. They are told that they are over qualified. So citizens do not pursue PhDs. It's that simple.

BTW, you notice that with the rise of H1Bs came the diminishment of the employment of women in the field? H1Bs will work the long the long hours that American women won't. American women want to go home at 5 pm to pick up their kids from school. An H1B wont leave early.

In the 1980's before the rise of H1bs, there were a lot of women and African American programmers. Roughly 30% of the labor force. Now, there aren't very many at all.

[sledgehammer]

109. Immigration to the US...

...has not always been based on specific need only. It's been about attracting people from all over the world to build a diverse and progressive society. It has been a successful strategy for so long, through recessions, depression, war and peace.

Immigration policy is sorely tested during adverse economic conditions. But it is the greatness of America that it has kept an open mind to immigration. Europe has been somewhat closed-minded, and it has not been as successful economically and societally (I'm making words up now!) as the US. Europe recently introduced a "blue card" (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1674962,00.html) modeled on the US green card to try to emulate some of the success America has seen.

A side story to share with you, and perhaps off-topic, but whatever. Both my brothers are born US citizens. So they were able to get federal loans in college, vote the day they turned 18, work whenever and wherever they wanted, go in and out of the country as they pleased, etc. I was in the US for over 13 years before I could enjoy most of these privileges, and had to go through a lot of hassle and paperwork throughout the way (and I'm not complaining at all about this - it was all worth it).

Interestingly, for lack of better words, I have been a much more "patriotic" and "dutiful" American than my brothers. In terms of being involved in the political process, knowing about America and its history, vocally defending America when appropriate, serving the community, identifying as an American, understanding the freedoms that we have, etc. My Congressman was kind enough to have a flag hoisted on the Capitol building the day I got my citizenship, and I display that flag and certificate proudly in my living room as a reminder of how fortunate and privileged I am to be a United States citizen.

I understand the criticism of programs like H-1 and L-1, I really do. But I get a little concerned when there are blanket calls to restrict immigration, because I fear it's the beginning of a closed America, something I hope I never have to see in my lifetime.

Thanks for your response. I really appreciate the discussion. And an excellent point on women programmers. I agree with you on that, though I do think the entire work environment is structured unfavorably toward women. Regardless, the H-1 factor does apply too.

[cap]

117. there has been an ebb and flow of immigration depending on labor force needs

check your history. In good economic times, we've opened the borders and in bad ones, we've closed them. We've closed the doors to immigration before -- ask the Mexicans (especiallly during the Great Depression).... that's why we have the Border Patrol sending those guys back to Mexico. We've never had a completely open border with Mexico. Why? We can't soak up the demand for entry into the US. It takes an extraordinarily long time for those guys to get legal visas. Why? We don't want to be flooded by unskilled labor so we use a lengthy bureaucratic process to tamp down on the number of immigrants. We don't even make it easy for skilled Mexican labor to come here. Never have.

Close it down until workforce needs change. When there is a real shortage of labor, open it back up. But make sure it is not used as cheap labor. If people are brought here for their skills they should be superior to those here in the US. There is a bill proposed in the Senate goes a long way towards transparency (ie forcing the listing of H1B jobs and their wages on the Dept of Labor web site with instructions on how to apply for those jobs, mandating that the wage is the higher of the average local wage or the national average for that profession, mandating that a copy of the H1b's w2 form is sent to the DOL for auditing purposes). As soon as that happens, you will see (unfortunately) that diversity is not really management's concern. Cheap labor is. I think this bill will end immigration as we know it now.

I do support family exemptions, refugee status (under some quota system) and humanitarian concerns.

[sledgehammer]

123. Bills like the ones you have mentioned...

...are absolutely essential. The abuse of H-1 and L-1 needs to be addressed yesterday. Not sure if you're talking about the Durbin-Grassley bill but that's the only one I know of. Hopefully there's another one as well.

End the abuse asap. But before serious restrictions are put on issuing H-1 visas, the following should be addressed:

- Illegal immigration, and the hiring of illegals. Absolutely devastating for the economy. A huge influx of low-skilled labor, and no taxes received in return to city, state, and fed govts. A massive burden on govt resources. A very unfair situation for American citizens, and for legal immigrants following the law and due process.

- The diversity visa lottery system which "makes available 50,000 permanent resident visas annually to persons from countries with low rates of immigration to the United States." This was instituted by Ted Kennedy back in the day. This is basically a pure lottery, and the requirements are "at least a high school diploma, or its equivalent, or two years of work experience in an occupation requiring at least two years training." Here's a link for more info: http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1317.html

With the "proper" use of the H-1, you are primarily allowing students who have received their Bachelor's, Master's and PhDs from US educational institutions to be competitively hired and work their way toward permanent residence. And/or you would also be addressing true shortages. That's a hell of a lot better than both illegal immigration and the diversity visa.

Regardless of all the passionate discussion here, the reality is that little is going to change on the immigration front. Other than addressing abuse within H-1 and L-1, I doubt you will see restrictions on immigration. Especially with Obama (the son of a student visa holder, the product of the American Dream, a believer in the "shining beacon on the hill" imagery) at the helm.

[cap]

139. I would tighten up the requirements such that there is real expertise

and real need.

I think you will see the caps on H1b's dramatically lowered. Microsoft just laid off a bunch of their own H1bs.

[Azlady]

35. I agree with you Cap

Bye-bye to H1-B's, personally I believe the worker visa program needs to be redesigned, that first always protects the American Worker then the Visa Worker.

[OhioChick]

65. Agreed. Unemployed American Citizens FIRST. n/t

[HopeHoops]

48. I've been very impressed with the skill and training of H-1Bers I've known.

My post is from personal experience at companies that employed them. Several were very open in discussing their fear of losing sponsorship and the management clearly took advantage of this. There is no question that the program is used by some as a means of wage depression, but they were being used as lower cost employees with a threat hanging over their heads. The program is supposed to provide access to skilled labor when there is a shortage of locally available and equivalent employees. Yet even now, when there is a major glut of skilled workers, companies are taking advantage of H-1B to hire at lower wages - and they want access to more bodies.

I have no problem with the concept and I'm glad it worked so well for you, but I believe it needs more protection so that everyone who comes here as an H-1B feels they were treated as well as you were. It should also be difficult for companies to hire H-1B when there is an available pool of available workers with the same skills. The Microsoft case is an extreme form of abuse, but I doubt it is that uncommon.

[OhioChick]

66. Study Says H-1Bs Aren't the Best or Brightest

Study Says H-1Bs Aren't the Best or Brightest

http://blogs.eweek.com/careers/content001/h1b_foreign_workers/study_says_h1bs_arent_the_best_or_brightest.html


Consider yourself to be fortunate. I'm usually put on projects that have screwed up beyond belief by either H-1B's or through overseas outsourcing.

[Azlady]

79. I agree with this article - trust me, I lost 4 jobs to h1b's...

even though they couldn't grasp the tasks I was let go. 2 Co's have gone bye-bye, putting all their trust into these visa holders that simply could not do the job!

[HopeHoops]

101. Well, to be fair, it was some time ago. Perhaps the pickings are leaner now.

[us_citizen]

147. h-1bs have never been anything more than a baseball bat on tech labor nt

[leveymg]

92. You make some good points about H-1B, but the the L-1B problems were addressed

by Grassley-Durbin's 2004 amendments. It's now much more difficult to hire out L-1B workers to customer sites ("body shopping") than it was previously.

The approach DOL is now likely to take with layoffs is to require companies that layoff workers is to submit new LCAs for all H-1Bs in the same geographical area, and to require DOL supervised competitive recruitment for positions held in the same occupations that layoffs occurred.

The 30 percent fraud figure for H-1Bs is a bit high - USCIS published an audit last September that found 20.7 percent out of compliance - 13 percent fraud and 7 percent technical violations. See, See, USCIS, H-1B Benefits Fraud and Compliance Assessment, http://www.laborimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/uscis-h1b-audit-report.pdf

When you come down to it, the problem isn't foreign workers. The lack of US jobs in the tech sector is that US companies failed to reinvest profits made from offshoring in expanding operations here where US workers do have a comparative advantage. Those profits were simply pocketed by executives or distributed to shareholders under pressure from Wall Street.

[notesdev]

31. Indentured servitude makes a comeback

... which is basically what these people are, they stay in the US at the whims of their employers. Of course workers like that are going to be easy to control and to bargain for salary with. Why would a business ever even start to consider hiring an American when these guys are available? They hire Americans only when the H1-B quota is run out.

[Azlady]

80. and then when h1b quota is upped, the American worker is let og..

[busybl]

86. is this too mean?

I wouldn't move my family across town for a job I've only had a month. It's foolish.

[Missy Vixen]

9. WOW. Someone finally addresses the 800 pound elephant in the room,

and it's a REPUBLICAN?

As most here know, my husband works in the software industry. Well, he worked before he lost his job in November. He's looking for another. At the same time, the software industry in the Seattle area is FLOODED with H1B holders.

To my shock, I'm agreeing with Grassley. It's time for the Obama administration to cut off tax breaks/H1B visas to corporations who do business offshore to avoid taxes, as well as bringing in those from other countries who work more cheaply, till the economic downturn is over in the USA. The whole reason Microsoft hires these folks is because they can pay them less, and I defy any Microsoft executive to prove me wrong.

Julie

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. Microsoft is for microsoft they really pushed the H1B and lobbied $$$$$

for it more than any other corporation.

[spindrifter]

18. Yes. Oddly enough the H1-B's are not so uppity as

"contractors" who sue them to get benefits because they are not actually working independently.

[FatDave]

40. As one of those "contractors"...

...I once had a co-worker, not even my boss, tell me I had to report to work at 8AM like everybody else. I replied with documents from the US Department of Labor.

[Matariki]

94. curious

what documents specifically were you referring to? what laws govern contractors and work hours?

[FatDave]

97. Sorry, took me awhile to notice your question.

The Fair Labor Standards Act lays out guidelines for determining when there's an employer/employee relationship. My point is if you're going to treat me like an employee, I'm going to demand the same benefits employees get.

I think this is the document I sent: http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs13.pdf

[OhioChick]

60. Microsoft to axe 5,000, no job cuts in India

Microsoft to axe 5,000, no job cuts in India

NEW YORK: Starting with 1,400 job cuts, software giant Microsoft will slash 5,000 jobs over the next 18 months.

"Microsoft will eliminate up to 5,000 jobs in R&D, HR, marketing, sales, finance, legal, and IT over the next 18 months, including 1,400 jobs today," the company said in a statement.

The layoff, however, would not be impacting the Indian operations. "It's not going to impact us. No job cuts in India," a Microsoft India spokesperson said in New Delhi.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Microsoft_to_axe_5000_but_no_job_cuts_in_India/articleshow/4018194.cms

[Azlady]

96. Screamm

No Job cuts in India....... once again.... the American worker BUILT Micro$oft and they are getting screwed! I am SOO tired of these rich suckers just ripping our jobs out of our country!

[OhioChick]

59. From someone in the software industry....

Agreed and well said! :applause:

[LakeSamish706]

19. Clarification on my part, if you are now a citizen of the US then you are a....

US citizen and should be treated as such. I was meaning anyone that is working in the US as a non citizen, taking a job that a citizen can do....

[dickthegrouch]

82. Green Card holders are formally known as

PERMANENT Residents. There is an implied contract that we have met all the conditions and restrictions and petty bureaucratic hoops and are now treated in most ways as citizens. If I commit a crime I might still (after 26 years residency) face deportation, but I'm not about to do that.

One of the things I find most odious about the US is its xenophobia and people like you LakeSamish who would rip the fragile stability from my life just because in some way you think I haven't done enough or been enough to warrant it.

In DU I am extremely disappointed to find such sentiments.

I've earned the right to change jobs at will. My Green Card is a right to be employed in the US.

Treat others as you would wish to be treated. If I see more of this kind of BS, I'll know exactly how you wish to be treated, LakeSamish: as someone with zero stability, zero compassion and zero sense.

[D-Lee]

22. US friend just let go by US computer firm, replaced by H-1B visa worker

Yeah, that program works really well to protect American workers! (Sarcasm)

[Azlady]

81. d-Lee I am so sorry you have lost your job

Write the White House... let them know how you lost your job... it is important that they hear this from all of us..
here is the link
http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/opl/

Hang in there -

[robinlynne]

26. fantastic! I agree 1000%!

[cliffordu]

29. Lessee...Gates was in front of Congress a year or so ago telling them that

HE favored an unlimited number of H-1Bs........

Dude's a software stealing scumbag.

[OhioChick]

68. Gates is a greedy SOB.

Notice when he's in front of Congress pimping for more H-1B's, no else is allowed to be there to refute his claims of there being no skilled U.S. citizens avaliable? It's all about that cheap labor.

[Riley133]

34. President Obama, in Nov 2007, said he wanted to increase them at least temporarily as part of ....

.....immigration reform:


Q&A With Senator Barack Obama On Key Technology Issues

November 26, 2007

Michael Arrington


Immigration and H1B Visas

MA: What is your position on H1B visas in general? Do you believe the number of H1B visas should be increased?

BO: Highly skilled immigrants have contributed significantly to our domestic technology industry. But we have a skills shortage, not a worker shortage. There are plenty of Americans who could be filling tech jobs given the proper training. I am committed to investing in communities and people who have not had an opportunity to work and participate in the Internet economy as anything other than consumers. Most H-1B new arrivals, for example, have earned a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent abroad (42.5%). They are not all PhDs. We can and should produce more Americans with bachelor’s degrees that lead to jobs in technology. A report of the National Science Foundation (NSF) reveals that blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans as a whole comprise more that 25% of the population but earn, as a whole, 16% of the bachelor degrees, 11% of the master’s degrees, and 5% of the doctorate degrees in science and engineering. We can do better than that and go a long way toward meeting industry’s need for skilled workers with Americans. Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively. I support comprehensive immigration reform that includes improvement in our visa programs, including our legal permanent resident visa programs and temporary programs including the H-1B program, to attract some of the world’s most talented people to America. We should allow immigrants who earn their degrees in the U.S. to stay, work, and become Americans over time. As part of our comprehensive reform, we should examine our ability to replace a stopgap increase in the number of H1B visas with an increase in the number of permanent visas we issue to foreign skilled workers. I will also work to ensure immigrant workers are less dependent on their employers for their right to stay in the country and would hold accountable employers who abuse the system and their workers.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/26/qa-with-senator-barack-obama-on-key-technology-issues/

[Still Sensible]

37. I understand the sentiment and can certainly argue

both sides of this question... but coming from Grassley I would have to say it is most likely motivated by a desire to scapegoat immigrants. That is not to say the general concern is not quite valid. I just think this is a more layered qurstion than it would first appear.

[sledgehammer]

45. Grassley has been working with Durbin...

..,on the issue of abuse in the H-1 and L-1 programs. It's a bipartisan effort in the right direction.

http://durbin.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=271783

But nothing's been done on it since being introduced, at least that's what I interpret from the Senate's THOMAS search engine:

S.1035
Title: A bill to amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to reduce fraud and abuse in certain visa programs for aliens working temporarily in the United States.
Latest Major Action: 3/29/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

[Still Sensible]

62. Thanks for the info

[Yavin4]

38. The IT Sector Was What Pulled Us Out of Our Last Economic Depression, the 1970s

We're going through now what we went through in the 1970s, high unemployment, a very weak economy, and the end of a very expensive war/quagmire.

Our economy was horrible throughout the 70s and into the early 80s. What saved us economically was the birth of the personal computer. At Reagan's inaugural in 1981, the majority of offices and homes didn't have a single computer. By the time Reagan left office in 1989, almost every office had a computer on every desk. This tech wave created new jobs in hardware, software, networking, databases, etc. Millions of jobs were created and they paid above average wages.

In the 90s, the internet allowed computers to exchange data with each other outside of their own networks. This tech wave created even more jobs in IT and Telecom.

Today, because of outsourcing, these tech waves have crested, and that's the biggest reason why we're in a financial crisis. Simply put, no industry is creating new businesses and new jobs that pay above average wages. In fact, all wages have been in a decline since 2000. To make matters worse, loose interest rates policies and lax lending standards created a tsunami of borrowing which cannot be paid back because wages are not growing.

The end result is that housing prices are falling back in line with current declining wages.

Bottom line, without a new economic wave creating new businesses, jobs, etc., our current economy will stay in decline, which may necessitate a new economic paradigm.

[Virginian]

39. Worked in IT for over 20 years...

Encountered my first H-1s in the late 1990's. None of them were educated in the US.
Started learning about Tata and Satyam opening US offices. They can bring in the L-1s anytime they want. That can't be fair and is just begging to be abused.
Most of the H-1s were trying to get that green card. They wanted to become citizens, because they could make higher wages here than in their country of origin.

I was laid off from my IT job several years ago when the company I worked for lost a contract to an 80% H-1b company. I finally gave up trying to get another job in my field. I am now working part time in a Doctor's office making about a tenth of what I made before. It is discouraging to watch the H-1bs that I used to mentor drive by in their Lexis and BMWs.

[sledgehammer]

46. Yep, the L-1 is more abused than the H-1B

Plus, the L-1 visa does not even have a prevailing wage requirement. Now, that's a great idea, isn't it???

A lot of the contractors in the US are on L-1s and are often mistakenly referred to as H-1Bs.

Sorry to hear about your story - sadly, it's more common that one would like to hear. Late 90s is exactly when the abuse / "body shopping" started.

[Yavin4]

89. Your Story Is The Real Reason Why We're In This Financial Crisis

Your former career pave the way for ALL salaries, IT and Non-IT alike. Because of outsourcing, H1B, L-1, etc., there's been no salary growth at all for U.S. workers in the past decade even though housing prices shot up in the same decade.

In the last two years, housing prices are falling in line to what you are currently making. Thus, all of the financial products, Mortgages, Mortgage Backed Securities, Credit Default Swaps, etc. that were dependent on ever rising housing prices are now worthless. Moreover, state and local governments are falling behind because they're losing property taxes.

The bottom line is this, IT jobs were responsible for much of the wage growth throughout the 80s and the 90s, and that was killed by outsourcing, H1-B, L-1, etc. Without wage growth, we don't have a growing economy. In fact, we have an economy in decline.

[Azlady]

99. I agree, give these jobs back to American Workers,

Watch the economy start to recover, if it is not too late.

[us_citizen]

148. sickening nt

[FatDave]

41. First time I've ever been happy with both my senators.

Well, since I left Illinois anyway. I'm sure it will pass.

[Triana]

42. THANK YOU Senator Grassley. n/t

[Vinca]

47. A very good question that never occurred to me. nt

[treestar]

49. They were brought in during the time of a good economy

Seems rather vicious to treat them differently later.

We don't have to be assholes to people because they aren't American.

[ChromeFoundry]

67. Where have you been for the past 5 years????

Times in the tech sector have been nose-diving south for at least 5 years. How many of these jobs have been offshored and how many workers have been displaced due to corruption within the unnecessary H-1B program?

When a company starts having money problems, shouldn't the contract-workers and the temporary workers be the obvious first choice in staffing cuts? This is not all that different of a situation. For you to call the act of keeping citizens working over temporary workers - H-1Bs, a vicious action... you obviously do not understand the landscape or just have another agenda.

In these troubling times for our economy, we need to invest in a long term plan that promotes a stable future. That means keep our citizens employed and trained, FIRST. It does not mean become the worlds employer, while having China be our banker.

[OhioChick]

69. Her agenda is the fact that she's an immigration lawyer. n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

71. Oh, I see....

That makes sense... her comments show that she does not really think this act is vicious... she's just looking out for her own job interests. Kind of hard to be an immigration lawyer that handles H-1B holders, if there is no argument to be made for keeping them and lowering the cap.

She must be a "protectionist"... for her own job!

[OhioChick]

70. Remember YOUR quote from 2007?

"right wingers are oddly not all that bothered by outsourcing."

[goforit]

51. Microsoft Is so anti-American. Stop buying their product folks.

[conspirator]

95. My Windows XP and my Office are pirate versions. And I am proud of it nt

[OhioChick]

53. About Fucking Time!!!

Go Grassley! I thought Durbin was on board with this one....where's he at?

[ihavenobias]

54. K & R

[alfredo]

61. MS is now punishing Grassley's state by delaying plans for a data center

in Iowa.


http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D95T3ADO0.htm

[w4rma]

114. It looks like Grassley hit Gates where it hurts. (nt)

[us_citizen]

140. Big woop - 75 tech jobs for 20 million in tax breaks

assuming that the plans were ever anything more than a bargaining chip against the other locations

75 jobs, of which at least 1/2 would have been foreign workers comes to over 1/2 million dollars per job

Iowa is better off with Senator Grassley fighting H-1b, than going silent so Iowas can buy 38 jobs for 1/2 million a pop

Even the stimulus program gives jobs for 'only $275,000' a piece, about half the microsoft price

Folks, this is just an illustration how vicious this is getting. it also shows, that the value of a job is between 250-500k per job - INSANE to give away 140,000 per month

If your FED UP with this, please contact your Senators and ask them to support Senators Grassley and Durbin on this

or do nothing, and watch your nation go broke giving jobs away

[AngryOldDem]

72. Kinda shoots in the ass the theory...

...that the reason why companies had to resort to foreign labor was a dearth of qualified American workers. That argument was bullshit then; even more so now.

It's not the least bit "protectionist" to put American workers first here.

I applaud Grassley for bringing this up.

[OhioChick]

73. This news made my day....

as my job currently hangs by a thread.

[AngryOldDem]

129. Yours, and a lot of other people's.

The bottom line is, H1-Bs save companies a lot of money, and that's all that matters. Most turn out shit product/code that qualified, AMERICAN IT specialists have to clean up. At ultimately MORE expense to the company than what it supposedly "saved."

Jesus Christ. You know all this already. This whole goddamned subject makes my blood fucking boil.

[OhioChick]

131. Damn Straight.....

You nailed it and obviously see the big picture.

[doodadem]

74. As a Recruiter........

I can tell you that the vast majority of companies out there won't touch candidates that they have to sponsor (anything other than Green Cards/Perm Residents, or T-1's). I've been doing this for 20 years, and I can count on one hand the number of people with visa's that I've had hired. Most hiring authorities WANT to hire American citizens.

However, I will say this--I've never talked to any visa folks who aren't highly educated, experienced, and very sharp. If we want to remain competitive, we have to make sure we are making the investment in education and training necessary.

[varun]

83. a proper H-1 visa

is issued only after an American is given the first chance at the job.

On paper, all H-1 visas and employment based green cards have protections for American workers.

Its the few bad apples that give a bad name to this whole immigration process.

Even honest immigrants suffer because of these unethical companies / workers.

[ChromeFoundry]

87. Not true...

issued only after an American is given the first chance at the job.

This is only in companies that are considered "h-1B dependent"; at least 15% of the companies employees are h-1B visa holders.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/title_20/Part_655/20CFR655.736.htm


On Edit: added link to D.O.L. definition of "H-1B Dependent Employer"

[us_citizen]

146. is that from the cheap labor field manual?

"If we want to remain competitive, we have to make sure we are making the investment in education and training necessary."

[babylonsister]

76. Wow. Grassley gets one right. Nice to see. nt

[AzDar]

77. American workers should be the priority, period.

:mad:

[Azlady]

84. AzDar I so agree with you!

[busybl]

85. that was my first question when I read of this

Time to send them home.

[OhioChick]

90. Top H1b Employers in 2006

Top H1b Employers in 2006

1 INFOSYS TECHNOLOGIES LIMITED 4908
2 WIPRO LIMITED 4002
3 MICROSOFT CORPORATION 3117
4 TATA CONSULTANCY SERVICES LIMITED 3046
5 SATYAM COMPUTER SERVICES LTD 2880
6 COGNIZANT TECH SOLUTIONS U S CORP 2226
7 PATNI COMPUTER SYSTEMS INC 1391
8 IBM CORPORATION 1130
9 ORACLE USA INC 1022
10 LARSEN & TOUBRO INFOTECH LIMITED 947
11 HCL AMERICA INC 910
12 DELOITTE & TOUCHE LLP 890
13 CISCO SYSTEMS INC 828
14 INTEL CORP 828
15 I-FLEX SOLUTIONS INC 817
16 ERNST & YOUNG LLP 774
17 TECH MAHINDRA AMERICAS INC 770
18 MOTOROLA INC 760
19 MPHASIS CORPORATION 751
20 DELOITTE CONSULTING LLP 665
21 LANCESOFT INC 645
22 NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS 642
23 ACCENTURE LLP 637
24 JPMORGAN CHASE & CO 632
25 POLARIS SOFTWARE LAB INDIA LTD 611
26 COVANSYS CORPORATION 611
27 PRICEWATERHOUSECOOPERS LLP 591
28 QUALCOMM INCORPORATED 533
29 GOLDMAN SACHS & CO 529
30 KPMG LLP 476
31 MARLABS INC 475
32 UNIV OF MICHIGAN 437
33 UNIV OF ILLINOIS AT CHICAGO 434
34 UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA 432
35 THE JOHNS HOPKINS UNIV MED INSTS 432
36 SYNTEL CONSULTING INC 416
37 CITIGROUP GLOBAL MARKETS INC 413
38 BEARINGPOINT INC 413
39 UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND 404
40 KEANE INC 386
41 HTC GLOBAL SERVICES INC 382
42 IGATE MASTECH INC AN IGATE COMPANY 378
43 HEXAWARE TECHNOLOGIES INC 362
44 CAPITAL ONE SERVICES INC 362
45 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY 355
46 LEHMAN BROTHERS INC 352
47 YAHOO INC 347
48 US TECHNOLOGY RESOURCES LLC 339
49 INTELLIGROUP INC 336
50 HEWLETT PACKARD CO 333
51 RAPIDIGM INC 330
52 MERRILL LYNCH & CO INC 329
53 GOOGLE INC 328
54 CITIBANK N A 322
55 DIS NATIONAL INSTS OF HEALTH DHHS 322
56 YALE UNIVERSITY 316
57 NOKIA INC 314
58 TEXAS INSTRUMENTS INC 313
59 CAPGEMINI U S LLC 309
60 HARVARD UNIVERSITY 308
61 EMC CORPORATION 305
62 SUN MICROSYSTEMS INC 303
63 RITE AID CORPORATION 301
64 BLOOMBERG 298
65 GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY 292
66 AMGEN INC 289
67 MCKINSEY & COMPANY INC US 286
68 MORGAN STANLEY 285
69 STANFORD UNIVERSITY 279
70 WASHINGTON UNIV IN ST LOUIS 278
71 VERIZON DATA SVCS INC 276
72 NYC-HHC HARLEM HOSPITAL CENTER 276
73 UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH 275
74 INDIANA UNIVERSITY 273
75 OHIO STATE UNIV 271
76 EVEREST CONSULTING GROUP INC 269
77 UNIV OF MINNESOTA 269
78 AMTEX SYSTEMS INC 268
79 UW MADISON 268
80 STATE UNIV OF NY AT STONY BROOK 262
81 AMAZON GLOBAL RESOURCES INC 262
82 CLEVELAND CLINIC FOUNDATION 256
83 DALLAS INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT 255
84 UNIV OF CA DAVIS 254
85 NORTHWESTERN UNIV 251
86 SYNTEL INC 250
87 UNIV OF MISSOURI COLUMBIA 247
88 GLOBALCYNEX INC 247
89 KANBAY INCORPORATED 246
90 AMERICAN SOLUTIONS INC 242
91 UNIV OF FLORIDA INTL CENTER 240
92 UCLA 239
93 DUKE UNIV UNIV MED CTR & AFFIL INS 238
94 MOUNT SINAI MEDICAL CENTER 236
95 BANK OF AMERICA N A 236
96 SOFTWARE RESEARCH GROUP INC 234
97 BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE 234
98 MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL 232
99 CIBER INC 232
100 VERINON TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS LTD 230


Next 100 (Top 200 H1 applicants)

101 EVEREST BUSINESS SOLUTIONS INC 226
102 VOLT TECHNICAL RESOURCES LLC 224
103 OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY 223
104 COMPUNNEL SOFTWARE GROUP INC 222
105 US TECH SOLUTIONS INC 221
106 SYMANTEC CORP 220
107 JSMN INTERNATIONAL INC 218
108 UBS AG 216
109 CVS PHARMACY 213
110 THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY 213
111 UNIV OF WASHINGTON 213
112 NORTEL NETWORKS INC 212
113 UNIV OF CA SAN FRANCISCO 211
114 UNIVERSITY OF MA MEDICAL SCHOOL 210
115 SPRINT UNITED MANAGEMENT COMPANY 209
116 HOUSTON INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRIC 209
117 PURDUE UNIV 208
118 GLOBAL CONSULTANTS INC 207
119 EMORY UNIVERSITY 207
120 UT HEALTH SCIENCE CENTER 207
121 UNIV OF COLORADO 207
122 VANDERBILT UNIV 205
123 OBJECTWIN TECHNOLOGY INC 205
124 DIASPARK INC 204
125 HSBC BANK USA N A 203
126 EBUSINESS APPLICATION SOLUTIONS 203
127 BROADCOM CORP 203
128 PRINCE GEORGES COUNTY PUBLIC SCHS 203
129 MICRON TECHNOLOGY INC 202
130 COUNTRYWIDE HOME LOANS INC 198
131 TEXAS A&M UNIVERSITY 198
132 APPLIED MATERIALS INC 195
133 SCHLUMBERGER TECHNOLOGY CORP 194
134 UNIV OF IOWA 194
135 IBM GLOBAL SVCS IGS INDIA PVT LTD 194
136 DELOITTE TAX LLP 194
137 CUMMINS INC 193
138 ITECH US INC 191
139 COMPUWARE CORPORATION 189
140 INTL STUDENTS AND SCHOLARS OFFICE 186
141 UNIVERSITY OF CA SAN DIEGO 185
142 WALGREEN CO 184
143 HOWARD HUGHES MEDICAL INSTITUTE 184
144 USC 183
145 VISION SYSTEMS GROUP INC 182
146 T MOBILE USA INC 180
147 MULTIVISION INC 178
148 EDS ELECTRONIC DATA SYSTEMS 177
149 MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECH 175
150 CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY 174
151 CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIV 173
152 UNC CHAPEL HILL 173
153 THE UNIV OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM 172
154 DEUTSCHE BANK AG 170
155 CATERPILLAR INC 170
156 HALLMARK GLOBAL TECHNOLOGIES INC 169
157 CYBERTHINK INC 169
158 CORPORATE COMPUTER SERVICES INC 167
159 ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES INC 167
160 MEGASOFT CONSULTANTS INC 166
161 ENTERPRISE SOLUTIONS INC 165
162 FREESCALE SEMICONDUCTOR INC 163
163 UT SOUTHWESTERN MEDICAL CENTER AT 163
164 FIRST TEK TECHNOLOGIES INC 161
165 MICHIGAN STATE UNIV 161
166 RESEARCH FDN OF THE STATE UNIV OF 160
167 COMSYS SERVICES LLC 160
168 VIRGINIA TECH 160
169 JUNIPER NETWORKS INC 160
170 THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA 158
171 IOWA STATE UNIV 157
172 UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA 157
173 FEDEX CORPORATE SVCS INC 157
174 CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON LLC 156
175 BRISTOL-MYERS SQUIBB COMPANY 156
176 VERIZON SERVICES CORP 156
177 EBAY INC 155
178 AJILON LLC D B A AJILON CONSULTING 154
179 GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION 153
180 CAMO TECHNOLOGIES INC 152
181 MARVELL SEMICONDUCTOR INC 151
182 CMC AMERICAS INC 150
183 THE UNIV OF TEXAS M D ANDERSON CAN 149
184 NVIDIA CORPORATION 149
185 AT&T SERVICES INC 147
186 WEILL MED COLLEGE OF CORNELL UNIV 146
187 AXIOM SYSTEMS INC 146
188 WAYNE STATE UNIV 146
189 MAYO CLINIC ROCHESTER 146
190 NC STATE UNIV 146
191 GENENTECH INC 146
192 MAKRO TECHNOLOGIES INC 145
193 SVAM INTERNATIONAL INC 144
194 MEMORIAL SLOAN-KETTERING CANCER 143
195 NUTECH INFORMATION SYSTEMS 143
196 XPEDITE TECHNOLOGIES INC 143
197 AUTOMATIC DATA PROCESSING INC 143
198 LOUISIANA STATE UNIV 142
199 FANNIE MAE 141
200 MINDTREE CONSULTING PVT LTD 141

http://www.garamchai.com/TopH1b2006.htm

[samsingh]

91. Microsoft laying off is scary.

[high density]

98. Well thank God for that

All this whining for years by corporate America that they need more H-1Bs and now they are in full tilt layoff mode. It is sickening. The program needs to end NOW.

[antigop]

100. Well, let's see what becomes of this. At least Grassley is calling them on it.

Thanks for posting.

[Waiting For Everyman]

103. If the cos. ignore this, Congress should end the program.

(they should anyway)

The premise is that there aren't enough American workers to do these jobs, so if Americans are being laid off, obviously the program isn't needed.

Checkmate. Good move from Grassley.

[RCinBrooklyn]

104. Seems a good time to release all H-1B workersfrom emplyment and get Americans back to work.

[Azlady]

105. Yes, all Visa Workers, should be released from employment & allow

Americans to fill those positions, it is a hard reality, but we need to get Americans back to work.

[OhioChick]

110. Damn Straight. Also, release the L-1's from employment.

Too many U.S. tech workers that are without a job. It's sickening.

[Romulox]

113. Since we have "free trade" of goods in this country, it's only fair we have "free trade" in services

How do IT workers expect $14/hour employees to pay their inflated wages? :shrug:

[OhioChick]

116. "Inflated wages???"

I've taken so many pay cuts over the last 8 years that I've lost count.

[Romulox]

118. Sorry, but wages have been stagnant in America for 30 years

It was never realistic to think that manufacturing workers where going to shoulder the entire burden of globalization.

[OhioChick]

120. Most IT workers have seen their wages decrease since 2001...

Not to mention having to compete with Indian IT companies, the outsourcing of U.S. jobs overseas.....and here at home competing with H-1B's and L-1's.

We're all in this together, not just laborers. We always have been.

[Romulox]

124. The point is: we are all hanging together.

"We're all in this together, not just laborers. We always have been."

With all due respect, this is nonsense. White and blue collar workers have never been in this together, and, quite frankly, my guess is that IT workers will have to suffer a great deal more before they make common cause with Labor.

[OhioChick]

125. So....

I should continue to support my blue collar brothers and sisters (As I do) but not expect any support back?

Makes absolutely no sense.

[Romulox]

126. It's got to start somewhere. Obviously, what you propose makes no more sense

than what you criticize.

In other words, blue collar workers aren't going to support IT workers until (unless?) they get some reciprocation.

[OhioChick]

127. They do from me right now...

An American car in the driveway, I purchase "Made in the U.S.A." products. When you purchase software for your home PC, do you research it's country of origin or do you simply go with least cost?

[Romulox]

136. The problem is much larger than you and I. As a whole, I don't see any support for Labor

from IT types.

But by all means, ignore me. That will probably make the problem go away.

[ChromeFoundry]

137. She just got done saying that she supports U.S. labor...

what more do you want from her? I am an IT type as well... 2-American made cars in the driveway, always buy "made in the U.S.A." products when they are available. I agree with her choice to put you on ignore; you don't want to debate the issue, you want to pass blame. That makes you the problem, and you go away by being placed on ignore.

The problem is not much larger than you and me... that is a cop-out excuse for you not wanting to support IT workers. I bet you are the type that shops at Walmart, because the problem with lopsided importation of cheap goods manufactured in China's sweatshops, is much larger than just you!

[Romulox]

138. I never accused her of not supporting US Labor. I said there is no solidarity between IT and Labor

as a whole. It's a difficult point to argue away, I think you'll have to admit. That doesn't mean that you, or OhioChick do not support Labor.

The problem is not much larger than you and me... that is a cop-out excuse for you not wanting to support IT workers.

What makes you think that I don't support American IT workers? I myself lost my job in the software industry to outsourcing and off-shoring. I damn well supported the American IT industry when I depended on it to feed my family! I don't buy much software these days, but the software I do buy is almost 100% made in the USA (as far as I can tell--most recent purchases Apple Logic, Fallout 3.) So that makes 3 of us. Is the problem solved? No? Then I guess it's bigger than us.

I bet you are the type that shops at Walmart, because the problem with lopsided importation of cheap goods manufactured in China's sweatshops, is much larger than just you!

I've been talking about supporting Labor throughout this thread. Do you really think I shop at Walmart, or are you just lashing out? In fact, I spent $50 more than I had to yesterday to buy an item at store other than Walmart (online price check.) Believe me or don't; it's true.

In short, I think you're confusing the person pointing out a problem with the problem itself. I simply think it's wildly unrealistic to expect that IT jobs will be protected at the same time society is demanding blue collar workers accept deep wage cuts so that they "can be competitive" with labor in the developing world. Not from a fairness or justice standpoint--from a feasibility standpoint.

[Azlady]

128. Hey Ohiochick -

The ignore feature works great for posters like you're "trying" to communicate with...

[OhioChick]

130. Funny....

You're not the first person that's suggested that to me today. ;-)

[Romulox]

135. Ignore me if you want. I think I'm making an important point. But bury your head if you like. nt

[lanlady]

115. even in good times--

--the H-1B program generated resentment among IT people. Everyone knew it was a ruse to depress wages. But let's not blame the H-1B workers or go around accusing them of "stealing American jobs." People do what they gotta do to survive.

I wish Congress would vote to end the program. Let those who are here already remain until their visas expire. There's no reason to continue H-1B, there are plenty of unemployed IT workers and many other jobless who could train up on these skills.

BTW, my kid lost his job today. I'd like to extend a very special FUCK YOU to John Thain.

[Deja Q]

119. Agreed.

A counselor I once had used the "stealing" line and I responded it wasn't. It's more about opportunism than stealing; I mean nobody is holding a gun to any H1B's head and it's not slave labor to them... opportunity. Return on investment. Total cost of ownership for the education they get (via their own coffers or their employers' generosity). RIO and TCO are equally valid for workers too.

[ecstatic]

134. 6 figure + salary makers on H-1B visas--PM me

Maybe we can work out a marriage arrangement.

[us_citizen]

143. Each and every person who is FED UP with this stuff must contact their reps

I hear that the new jobs program could cost $275,000 per new job.

(see article) http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2009/01/19/is-275000-per-job-a-good-deal/ Yet, we allow in 140,000 foreign workers per month, according to NumbersUSA.com. How do we know that the jobs we're creating at $275,000 a pop are 'jobs Americans will do', given that Americana are having to train their Indian H-1b replacements for 'jobs Americans won't do'?

If a job is worth $275,000, then 140,000 guest workers per month comes to
$275,000 x 140,000 x 12 = $462,000,000,000 per year BORROWED from other nations, to give jobs to foreign workers

that's $462 billion per year - insane

What's the morality of borrowing this much money, putting it on the debt of today's American children, when we're already giving away jobs wholesale that their parents need? That's not a recipe for recovery, it's a recipe for certain national bankruptcy

Imagine if the people who went to Grassley thought is wasn't worth their time to contact their Senator - where would we be

we must all do everything we can, or we are finished

[Waiting For Everyman]

144. How come we don't see a big influx of cheap foreign lawyers?

That'll be the day!

They make $500/hr., so why don't students come here to study and take THEIR jobs?

[us_citizen]

145. funny how rarely that is asked n/t

[OhioChick]

154. LPOs set to ramp up India headcount

LPOs set to ramp up India headcount

27 Jan 2009, 0045 hrs IST, Paramita Chatterjee, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI: The global slowdown is keeping the legal process outsourcing (LPO) sector in India extra busy these days. With the sudden surge in business in the LPO space in the last one year, firms such as Pangea3, UnitedLex and Legal Circle are looking at ramping up headcount in the entry and mid-management levels over the next few months.

The turmoil in the financial services sector globally is driving more legal outsourcing to India both in the corporate and litigation space.

Gurgaon-based UnitedLex’s vice-president HR, Rakhi Sharma, said: “We plan to hire 700 professionals in the next few months to keep pace with the work coming from the US and the UK.” The firm has seen a significant jump in the number of outsourced projects over the last few months both in the corporate and litigation space.

Bankruptcy filings in the US have gone up in the last couple of months raising demand for lawyers in India. “Legal work related to bankruptcies in the global market has increased,” said Pangea 3 Vice President Legal Services Antony Alex, adding that the law firm is set to recruit around 500 lawyers by the end of 2009. This includes campus placements across several law schools in the country.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/LPOs_set_to_ramp_up_India_headcount/articleshow/4034216.cms

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[us_citizen]

151. What is Obama's position on this?

he supported raising H-1b not that long ago

it is imperative that we urge him to not allow companies to throw American workers under the bus, replacing them with H-1bs when we're spending $275,000 per job in a jobs program

we'll all be broke if this continues

[us_citizen]

152. Jim Webb seems to have lost interest in this issue

and we KNOW that he knows the full truth

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/webb_flyer_color.pdf

[us_citizen]

153. although admittedly, his record is not bad

but i was hoping for more leadership

in the primary, he was agains tthe worst h-1b guy of all time, harris miller

http://profiles.numbersusa.com/improfile.php3?DistSend=VA&VIPID=1211

[OhioChick]

155. I've written Senators Brown and Voinovich...

Both wrote me back....Brown (D) is against H-1B's/outsourcing/offshoring and Voinovich (R) just wrote to me explaining what H-1B's are. :wtf:

As for Kucinich....he's against H-1B's/outsourcing/offshoring and "free trade." :)