Macedonia archeologists uncover 4,000 year old writing

[Adsos Letter]

Source: MINA

Uncovered are the first traces of the old Macedonian language in the country, says "Dr. Dushko Aleksovski, paleolinguistics professor and honorary president of the World Rock Art Academy.

"This is a very rare artifact, the name of the Goddess Vesta is written on it. However, the first written name is Bsefa, which later became Vesta. This is the oldest artifact written in the old Macedonian language discovered on our territory." says Dr. Aleksovski.

The 4,000 year old signs written on the lid of the clay artifact, according to Dr. Aleksovski, are considered as a monumental discovery, first of its kind and very important for the paleolinguistics.

The discovery was made in central Macedonia, the precise location is being kept secret by the Government so the area doesn't get over run by archeological poachers looking for treasures and artifacts.




Read more: http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/4915/2/

---

This is the full extent of the article; there is a picture of the artifact at the site.

[3waygeek]

1. Lemme guess...

it was a grade-school essay by John McCain.

[Fearless]

2. 12th grade actually... fourth time around too.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

16. "How 'bout that Bsefa? Heh? Heh?"

[SoCalDem]

3. best part?

"...honorary president of the World Rock Art Academy...."

[xchrom]

4. recommend

[Mari333]

5. Goddess, of course it would be a Goddess.

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Goddesses-Marija-Gimbutas/dp/0520229150/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230607264&sr=8-17

[Dr.Phool]

6. For Croation, press one. For English, press two.

[bluesmail]

7. recommend n/t

[starroute]

8. That date can't be right

If you zoom in on the picture in the article, you can see that the letters are Greek -- I can clearly make out Beta and what might be a tipped-over Phi. And letters of that sort weren't used until 800-500 BC. According to Wikipedia, the alphabet was adopted in Macedonia around 400 BC.

So this may well be the oldest example of Macedonian writing -- but it's surely not 4000 years old.

[dipsydoodle]

9. The linear scripts are older than 400 bc

c. 1300 - 1500 BC. Maybe its an even earlier script. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B

[14thColony]

10. They might not be 'Greek' letters in the modern sense

Remember that the Greek alphabet descends from the Phoenician alphabet, which descends from the proto-Caananite alphabet. So it's not inconceivable that letters approximating modern Greek letters might have existed 4,000 years ago, since they all came from the same point of origin in Palestine. But I agree that these letters do seem kinda 'modern' looking - like the tipped over Phi. Maybe the Greek alphabet descended from a lost Macedonian intermediary and not directly from Phoenician? Even then that alphabet would have been amazingly highly advanced 4,000 years ago - considering that proto-Caananite doesn't even date to that period, but about five centuries later.

Possibility 1 - Incredible breakthrough in the history of the development of the mother alphabet of most of the modern world; or
Possibility 2 - Someone is going to be embarrased when the artifact is re-dated.

[Trajan]

11. Perhaps you don't know how to post photos

[sofa king]

12. The object itself is pretty interesting.

It's a wheel and axle of some sort, maybe a key?

There is a very Phoenician looking "p" on the tip of the axle.

[semillama]

13. err... it's a pot lid, not a wheel.

but it's a very interesting artifact none the less!

[Igel]

14. Huh?

"Bsefa" became "Vesta"? I'd like to see them work out *that* bit of historical phonology in a bit more detail. *bse- > bes- sounds unlikely (maybe *bse- > *bise > *bis-, but then the i > e isn't just a real common change), and *f > *t I've never seen: Change of manner of articulation and fortition, probably in a post-tonic syllable, but certainly between vowels? Like I said, I'd like to see more of a correspondence set than just this one token. (I'd also like to see a rubbing of the pot, or something that actually shows the symbols as clearly as possible. If that is a beta, he's got some paleographic 'splainin' to do, as well.)

For all I know, it's something widely known among Indo-Europeanists who study that bit of the territory. I'm not one of them, Phrygian and Macedonian (is it even IE?) were blips at the periphery of the periphery of the PIE gunk I studied in grad school.

Maybe they're just stating that the word were replaced and it's a bad translation (I can't find this in Macedonian, but it must be there); then I'd want them to show that they know "Bsefa" is equivalent to "Vesta" from some other source, and why it's a reference to a goddess and not just a name. It happens that gods and humans have the same names sometimes.

Not saying Aleksovski is wrong. But there's a tendency in some quarters to overreach a bit in the significance of what's found, and go for interpretations based as much in hope and aspiration as in reason and fact. I've seen some rather odd expositions of what appears to be early writing from East Slavic territory and Bulgaria, usually bolstering not so much a scholarly, but a nationalistic, point. Makes me leery of claims that just happen to be so perfectly coincident with nationalist claims.

A makedonec is pointing out the importance of his homeland in things Macedonian(TM) ... since Greece, of course, claims the moniker and the "real" territory. At the same time, it would burnish the Macedonian's credentials against the Kosovar, some of whom had said that they were also the autochthonous inhabitants of the region before the Slavs came in (and usurped the name in the south before moving, paradoxically, north). To find actual Macedonian written there--not Slavic, not Phrygian (which some Albanians claim were they), would undercut the Albanian claim, as well, unless the Albanians can find some evidence that the pot was imported over hill and over dale. Such as doing an analysis of the clay and where that kind of clay deposit is found. Ahem.

Now, if the writing is Phrygian, he's screwed (but good luck with showing that, there's not just a lot of Phrygian documents lying about); if it's not Phrygian or Macedonian, it's pointless in this debate if it's a language known from elsewhere, or groundbreaking if it's a new language. I'll wait for the publication, and hope that it's one of Aleksovki's better ones.

BTW, it'll be ah-LEK-sof-ski, accent ever on the antepenultimate (in standard Mac.).

[SoxFan]

15. Exclusive first look