Obama Offers Poland No Commitment on Missile Plan

[Ichingcarpenter]

Source: associated Press

CHICAGO (AP) -- President-elect Obama has spoken to the president of Poland about relations between the two countries but didn't make a commitment on the multibillion-dollar missile defense program undertaken by the Bush administration, an Obama aide said Saturday.

That contrasts with a statement by Polish President Lech Kaczynski, who said Obama told him the missile defense project would continue.

The U.S. and Poland signed an agreement in August for basing American missiles in Poland as part of a shield against possible missile attacks from Iran.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Obama-Missile-Defense.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

---

Moderators this is not the same post but a rebuttal from Obama

[ingac70]

1. Kaczynski is such a liar.

The US should reject shit stirring crackpots.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. The Kaczynski brothers rule "the law and order' party supported Bush's Iraq Policies

They even threaten the free press in Poland

[izquierdista]

14. They are appropriately named

Their PiS party really is full of piss.

[moodforaday]

29. Our president, Kaczynski,

basically lives in the 19th century, politically. But Poland has a parliamentary system and the president, while he represents the country abroad, has no decision-making power in foreign policy (except that he can veto Parliament bills). His "Law and Justice" party was given a solid kick in the ass by voters a year ago, and as an opposition force their support is falling weekly.

But I am still surprised that he would misrepresent what Obama told him. It's what unmerited pride does to you.

[humbled_opinion]

41. Is their any doubt about

Our newly elected Presidents judgement... I love it. Poland lies by misrepresenting what Obama said. The difference here is that Obama corrects the record and straightens those that Misrepresent him out. He did it all through the campaign and he will do it all through his Presidency.

[harun]

2. Missile attacks from Iran? Good grief, how can reporters even report lies that big (n/t)

[Chulanowa]

40. Didn't you know? Them arabs have super magic powers!

They can make a missile that can circle the world eight times before blowing up the whole planet! And it'll turn us gay and convert us to Islam while it does!

(And yes, I know Iranians aren't Arabs. I doubt most of the media talking heads do, though)

[Montauk6]

44. Hell, some of these folks can't tell the difference between an Arab and a KENYAN!!!

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Scrap that puppy.

The starwarz bullshit has to go. Sticking these missiles on Russia's borders was a bullshit move to begin with, part of the neocon american hegemony failed nonsense.

[Indenturedebtor]

15. Agreed! What a steaming waste of money that whole thing has been

If we ever get nuked it won't be by an ICBM.

[pinto]

5. Thanks for the update. I figured the Polish prez was talking through his hat.

- or whatever that phrase is -

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. I figured it too but it scared me for a second and I awaited Obama

to straighten it out and DAMN that was fast!

[Mari333]

7. These guys think Bush's projects will go forward under Obama?

They must live in lala land. Sorry, Mr Kaczynski, Obama isnt Bush.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Yeah, and even after I posted this others are still piling on Obama on the other thread

that's why I kicked this again.

[IndianaGreen]

9. Let me point out that Lech Kaczynski and his brother are homophobes and anti-women

The Kaczynskis have conducted pogroms against gays and have taken away abortion rights from women.

Bush's missile system should be scrapped!

[moodforaday]

30. Actually, no, please don't spread bullshit.

If they did anything close to a "pogrom", they'd be in chains before the European Criminal Court by now. What Lech Kaczynski did, back when he was the mayor of Warsaw, was issue an unconstitutional ban against the Gay Pride parade. This resulted in more people attending the parade, including straights like myself, than would have attended otherwise.

And while the other brother was prime minister, his party was in alliance with another, much more radical right-wing, nationalist party ("League of Polish Families"), who did want to amend the constitution by introducing a total ban on abortion, even in cases of rape etc. This did not happen, partly because the Kaczynski brothers were opposed to it. Poland's anti-choice law is pretty bad as a result of kow-towing to the church, but for all their faults and all their conservative idiocy, the Kaczynskis were opposed to the idea of making the law even worse.

[bluestateguy]

10. I really don't know much about this issue

I will learn more before forming an opinion.

[jennied]

18. I don't know much on this issue either... Can someone...

point me to a link that explains this issue????

[Frisbee]

11. K-n-R, just to set the record straight. eom

[pjt7]

12. thanks for posting this

[FirstLight]

13. Firstly, President Obama will be re-thinking ALL of Bush's policies.

He knows this in his heart and gut, that many if not ALL of his policis are Bullshit and BAD for us as a nation and a people. Let's start from this premise...

Secondly, This is the old world politics of the Cold War and Terrorism era combined. Bush Doctrine at its worst, Reagan's posturing and BS still happening with the words from Russia and then this....
President Obama (god I love writing that!) Knows better, he didn't just plan to change politics in Washingon...he knew he would have a chance to play a different ball game with these world leaders too.

Do you really think putting warheads and anti missile stuff in another country is going to ONLY be meant to provoke Iran? Russia wasn't playing and decided to be agressive back...
so then our "grown-up" President Obama calls the game and chooses to get the other nations to use their energy constructively...much like a mother with a toddler...I hate to simplify it this way...but Distraction is our best friend. We need to distract the eneergy from war and towards helping our collective people live better. All over the world.

Watch, Obama is not a dummy, He has the ability to appeal to the best interests of ALL in a peaceful way, he knows how to stop the games before they have started, he is going to change the way we negotiate. No more "us vs. them"... But 'How can we all share and play nice and keep things running smoothly...'


I am looking forward to this!

[bertman]

16. If Obama's spokesman said that Obama doesn't plan to put the missile defense program

into effect until "the technology is workable" that is a far cry from being against a missile shield.

The whole point of the missile shield is to make the Russian missiles ineffective so the U.S. can continue its imperialistic expansion and encirclement of Russia without having to worry about any resistance from them. This is not about defending the U.S., but about defending the corporate energy pirates so they can continue to use our military to secure their drilling sites.

Whether Kaczynski is a homophobe, a fascist, or a dope fiend is irrelevant. It's the U.S. position that matters here, and Obama's spokesman McDonough seems to be saying that Obama is opposed to it because it is not up-to-speed technologically. Not because it's the wrong foreign policy move.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. What you call "encircling Russia" others would call stopping Russian expansion

And actually I think both of them have a ring of truth to them. I do think Russia has expansionist goals but I also don't think we need to be spending substantial amounts of US blood and treasure to stop them and that anybody who thinks we do either needs to either needs to have their head checked or has ulterior motives. McCain's warmongering rhetoric on the Georgia crisis scared the living shit out of me, for this reason. I also don't think that we need to be throwing billions into a missile defense system that doesn't even work, merely so that we can intimidate the Russians.

That being said, if Obama completely abandons the idea of the missile defense system, it sends a signal to Medevev and Putin that they can do whatever they want without fear of US intervention. Obama and any other wise US President should commit to stopping Russian aggression up to the point where stopping it doesn't actually involve substantial cost to the United States. Such a strategy will eventually require making some concessions to Russia, which the neocons would not approve up, but it also would allow us to stop them from getting everything they want.

[bertman]

46. I suspect that others would also call it stopping communism or protecting America from

the Red Menace. That doesn't mean it's anything other than exploitative rhetoric, though.

The fact is the U.S. and NATO can and would stop Russia cold if she really started being a major aggressor. We don't need a missile shield to do that. Russia knows this and, in my opinion, is unlikely to do anything more than secure itself against being cut off from the oil supplies it desperately needs.

Americans have forgotten that we consider it our right to intervene militarily any time ANY COUNTRY in our hemisphere is deemed a threat, yet we have no compunction whatsoever about creating militarized (by us) U.S. puppet governments on Russia's borders. Maybe forgotten is the wrong way to put it. We have been encouraged to forget is more appropriate.

It is our nationalistic hubris that leads us to think that we can bend every other nation to our will. This type of thinking has to stop if we are going to be anything more than the imperialist bully of the planet. The missile shield is another vestige of the cold war that Reagan, Bush One and now Bush Two are pushing in order to eliminate Russia from the petrochemical sweepstakes.

The Oil Boys up to their usual planetary domination tricks again.

[jeff30997]

17. Lech Kaczynski ?

Can we call him Unabomber 2?

He seems to have the same sociopathic profile and apparently he loves bombs too.

[moodforaday]

31. One difference:

He looooooves America. Reagan was a hero, Bush was a godsend to him and his party. And he's too stuck in his conservative groove to be able to reevaluate his thinking. But he's very unlikely to be reelected, we just have to put up with his temper tantrums for another two years. He does not set the foreign policy though - in fact, he has very little to say except that he can veto bills and refuse to ratify treaties.

[Ichingcarpenter]

38. Thank you so much for your National insights and perspectives.

On what is happening now in your country.

I spent 4 weeks on a Polish freighter back in the 70's so I know
a bit about Poland and had Polish friends over the years.

[JDwho]

19. Here's a link of what Pres. Medevedev stated when Obama was elected:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5090077.ece

[BlueMTexpat]

21. Just saw your post ...

that's definitely for show ... there's a great game of "Bluff" going on here.

[BlueMTexpat]

20. I am relieved to see this because I had a feeling that

Kacynski either heard what he wanted to or he wanted to tie Obama's hands with a "commitment" in the hopes that Obama might be too intimidated to respond. Nice try, Lech, but FAIL. :evilgrin:

Obama's quick response to this false report is excellent ... and as for other concerns associated with this particular issue, I believe that Obama is canny enough to parse his way through the minefield. After all, the last thing he needs is to escalate tensions with Russia. He has enough on his plate.

[JDwho]

23. Here are some other good links on the subject, it's very interesting:

There is really a lot of tension brewing with Medevedev, but the Russian president seems to be willing to wait until after Jan. 20, when Obama is inaugurated.

One of these articles hints that Medevedev may step down to put Putin in place as President. Hmmmmm.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/6e55082e-ab71-11dd-b9e1-000077b07658,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F6e55082e-ab71-11dd-b9e1-000077b07658.html&_i_referer=

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/6e55082e-ab71-11dd-b9e1-000077b07658,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F6e55082e-ab71-11dd-b9e1-000077b07658.html&_i_referer=

http://www.newsweek.com/id/112769

[Borgnine]

22. Glad to hear.

The rampant dog-piling on President-Elect Obama around these parts is amusing to see, and apparently all for naught.

[slipslidingaway]

24. Thanks for clarifying, Obama statement from the 9/27/08 debate...

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/first-presidential-debate.html

Near the end of the debate...

"...And the biggest threat that we face right now is not a nuclear missile coming over the skies. It's in a suitcase.

This is why the issue of nuclear proliferation is so important. It is the -- the biggest threat to the United States is a terrorist getting their hands on nuclear weapons.

And we -- we are spending billions of dollars on missile defense. And I actually believe that we need missile defense, because of Iran and North Korea and the potential for them to obtain or to launch nuclear weapons, but I also believe that, when we are only spending a few hundred million dollars on nuclear proliferation, then we're making a mistake..."

[Andy823]

25. Those of us who remember

The Cuban missile crisis of the 60's know that the U.S. would not put up with such antics from the Russians, so why should the Russians put up with the BS that Bush was going to do by putting missiles around the Russian border?

Bush was is an idiot that allowed Cheney to tell him what to do. All Cheney wants is to control the whole world and all the resources, and he doesn't care how many american troops have to die for him to get what he wants!

[markevil]

26. I have heard that this program is a money pit and does not work as of now..

It's at a point where Obama has to decide whether to keep throwing money at it or give it up. It's already cost over $50 billion with little progress.

[HPD]

27. Kaczynski Brothers worst than Bush

I'm Polish American and follow Polish news closely. In my opinion the Kaczynski brothers are worse than George Bush. Absolutely vile creatures.

[moodforaday]

33. Well, they do not have the blood

of nearly as many people on their hands, AND they are actually unfriendly to big corporations. At least their destructive idiocy does not extend much beyond Polish borders. So I disagree they are worse than Bush - but they are indeed Poland's little Bushes.

[HPD]

36. they're unfriendly

they're unfriendly to Foreign corporations because they are xenophobic protectionists.

And absolutely hateful to womens rights, gay rights. They try to cleanse the country of any left of center ideology--in the schools and government. Yes Bush had more power in his hands and so he destroyed more, but when focused on the individuals...lets say if the Kaczynski Brothers had the power Bush had, the world would be more doomed IMHO. These boys are nuts and the Poles don't even approve of them.

[KakistocracyHater]

28. Missile Command is just a game

that is a tax-payers moneypit since Reagan. It won't be anything more than what Atari had to offer. They should have killed the money-stream to that unworkable piece of garbage a long time ago.

[Politicub]

32. Finally, we can forget Poland n/t

[HPD]

37. In what way?

[HPD]

35. HEre's what i hope happens

Poland has been trying to get the US to drop visa requirements to travel here for close to two decades now. The people of Poland want this and their government has been asking for it. Obama I think is considering it.

So I think he will scrape the missile plan and give Poland the visa waiver.

[baby_mouse]

39. I'm extremely glad you posted this.

Many thanks!

[ohio2007]

42. Obama vows to go ahead with missile shield

WARSAW (AFP) — US president-elect Barack Obama has told Polish President Lech Kaczynski he will go ahead with plans to build a missile defence shield in eastern Europe despite threats from Russia, Warsaw said on Saturday.

"Barack Obama has underlined the importance of the strategic partnership between Poland and the United States, he expressed his hope of continuing the political and military cooperation between our two countries

snip
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3590489&mesg_id=3590489

Somebody lied

[HPD]

43. kaczynski is a known liar

It seems like everyone wants a piece of Obama. Obama won't have it.

[MJJP21]

45. "Somebody lied"

No kidding. Do you want to guess who? It wasn't Obama. He is too smart for that. He said this week there is only one president for now and he isn't it.