Real Deal on ‘Joe the Plumber’ Reveals New Slant

[Purveyor]

Source: New York Times

One week ago, Joe Wurzelbacher was just another working man living in a modest house outside Toledo, Ohio, and thinking about how to buy the plumbing business where he works. But when he stopped Senator Barack Obama during a visit to his block last weekend to complain about taxes, he set himself on a path to becoming America’s newest media celebrity — and as such suddenly found himself facing celebrity-level scrutiny.

As it turns out, Joe the Plumber, as he became nationally known when Senator John McCain made him a theme at Wednesday’s final presidential debate, may work in the plumbing business, but he is not a licensed plumber.

Thomas Joseph, the business manager of Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, based in Toledo, said Thursday that Mr. Wurzelbacher had never held a plumber’s license, which is required in Toledo and several surrounding municipalities. He also never completed an apprenticeship and does not belong to the plumber’s union, which has endorsed Mr. Obama. On Thursday, he acknowledged that he does plumbing work even though he does not have a license.

His full name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher. And he owes back taxes, too, public records show. The premise of his complaint to Mr. Obama about taxes may also be flawed, according to tax analysts. Contrary to what Mr. Wurzelbacher asserted and Mr. McCain echoed, neither his personal taxes nor those of the business where he works are likely to rise if Mr. Obama’s tax plan were to go into effect, they said.

None of that is likely to matter to those who see Mr. Wurzelbacher as a symbol of the entrepreneurial spirit they hope to foster with tax cuts, but even Mr. Wurzelbacher said he was shocked by all the attention.

“I’m kind of like Britney Spears having a headache,” he told The Associated Press on Thursday. “Everybody wants to know about it.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/us/politics/17joe.html

[Make7]

1. Not everbody wants to know about it. ( n/t )

[tularetom]

2. You got that right - i could NOT care less about Mr Weaselfucker

[melody]

3. ok, my favorite line today

That's his name tome now -- Joe Weaselfucker :rofl:

[silverojo]

4. It's not Mr. Weaselfucker's fault that the media is all over him

His last name really should not have been used (to protect his anonymity), and McCain shouldn't have kept using his newfound "Joe the Plumber" stick ad nauseum.

[Eric J in MN]

5. When someone sends a letter-to-the-editor, the newspaper...

...also prints the last name of the writer.

[Ferret Annica]

39. Hey! I like weasels

and mustilids of course. But I agree with you in spirit if not in metaphor. :)

[Ferretherder]

41. Fer Sherr, Brother, Fer Sherr!

n/t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

11. Then try not clicking next time

It does wonders for threads you don't wish to read.

[Kalifornia.Kid]

6. Joe FAKE Plumber brought it about himself ...

Too stupid to realize the skeletons in his own closet before he tried to play stump the candidate.

[Leopolds Ghost]

8. Haven't you ever worked in a job like that?

Guess what, a lot of these exurban white tradesmen (unfortunately) hate Dems precisely because of the nanny-ism directed against licensing of contractors and building sites (which is what keeps our property values so artificially inflated) combined with American disdain for construction work (which leads to nobody protesting about scab wages or trying to bring immigrant wages on par with domestic wages in order to stem the flow of scab labor). Which reinforces racism among the white working class that the left has done little to challenge. As it happens, the contracting system (which is union-based) predates the licensing system whose setup is mostly to protect the wages of the dwindling class of domestic plumbers which is destroying the union system (since only the domestic guys are unionized and they are being co-opted into management or ownership to oversee non-unionized, non-protected-on the job immigrant laborers just like in every other industry). This system of course fosters inequality but the government does not care. The objective is to build expensive houses for the top 10%, not provide high-paying domestic jobs. If you work for a master plumber, you don't need a license. the master plumber does. It helps to have a union card, though. It costs $250,000 easy to be a master plumber. Why are people trying to ruin this guy's life for, as you say, daring to speak his mind?

[norepubsin08]

14. Because he's a douchbag asshole

who tried to do the dirty work for the GOP

[GalleryGod]

16. Here's A good one,L.G. He Registered with the NATURAL LAW Party

Did you watch his Press Conference yesterday?
Seig Heil,Joe!

[GalleryGod]

17. Not Quite.

But I worked some awful jobs and "ate a mile of shiite" to get my PhD.
Oh, and UNlike McCain, I spent lots of time "commuting to the office" by Chopper.
Hey,it got me the G.I. Bill So the USA & I are "even Steven".

[Tansy_Gold]

22. the guy ruined his own life by lying, and I don't care what he lied about

But as a homeowner who has gone through hell and a half trying to find someone who will do decent repair and maintenance work -- plumbing, electrical, minor reconstruction, roofing, etc., etc., etc. -- I frankly very much appreciate the so-called "nanny-ism" of licensing and registering contractors.

I'm a pretty handy person myself. I can use a drill and saber saw (my favorite hand tools) with some expertise. I can sweat solder a copper plumbing joint just as neatly as you please. I've done more than my share of household wiring and rewiring.

But when I hire someone to replace a water line or resolve an unlocatable leak, I don't want to shell out $50/hour to someone who isn't qualified. I want to know that I'm not going to have to call someone ELSE two weeks later to fix the problems the first "plumber" fucked up. My home is my only investment, and it's also where I have to live. I want it taken care of and taken care of properly. What I can't do myself, I want done by someone who has some evidence that they know what they're doing.

And I know this from personal experience.

My daughter in NJ is dealing with a licensed contractor on a major home remodeling project. He screwed up. She can go to the state's department (I don't know what it's called) and get some resolution, and if he doesn't pay up she can take him to court and get higher damages than if he were just some guy advertising in the paper.

My son in Seattle is dealing with a licensed contractor on a new home construction project. The contractor is screwing up. He can go to the state's department and get some relief.

A friend in Gold Canyon had some work done on his patio and pool area last year. In order to save some money, he hired an unlicensed local handyman and bragged about how cheap it was. This summer he had to have everything redone because the concrete started to disintegrate, tiles fell off the pool, the gas grill was so far off level you could only cook on half of it. So he didn't save a penny: he had to pay MORE for the licensed contractor to fix what the other guy screwed up PLUS what he'd already wasted on the cheap job.

You seem to be blaming everyone -- unions, whites, scabs, everyone. I think most of your complaints are bullshit. Frankly I hang around with a bunch of people who are a helluva lot better off financially than I am and they include retired IBM executives, retired military, retired professors and teachers, and retired government workers PLUS retired uniobn auto workers, at least one retired plumber (selling his business to his son back in a Cold Northern State), and at least one retired electrician. There's no disdain for construction workers.

Now, I'm not saying that in some places people might look down on construction workers or skilled construction tradespeople. But that's no reason to justify the lying of a man who claims to be something he's not.

Joe Wurzelbacher, like far too many RW morans, shot off his mouth without thinking. "Without thinking" is a trademark, IMHO, of his type of idiot. They've simply turned off any capacity for critical analysis of what they do, what they say. He deserves every bit of ridicule that's ultimately heaped on him.


Tansy Gold

[LanternWaste]

23. Ahhh... that oft-used, little understood term...

Ahhh... that oft-used, little understood term "Nanny-Stater".

Which, as far as I know is nothing more than disdain for rules and regulation one doesn't like (the result of the nanny-state, I presume), yet righteous justification for those rules and regulation one agrees with (called common-sense).

[NJCher]

26. are you serious?

It costs 250,000 to be a master plumber? If you don't mind, can you explain that a little bit? Is it in the preparation, the licensing, what?

Ay yi yi. I never knew!



Cher

[lynnertic]

29. Take a breath. From a standpoint of local politics, licensing and building permits are really

the only way for locals to exert control over the shape of their landscape and assure some quality of work for their citizens. We don't have a disdain for construction work here, because a large number of my neighbors are contractors and developers.

The people in my area who complain the loudest about licensing are really effing rich and spend gobs and gobs of money trying to thwart perfectly reasonable standards, all to get away with something that's bad for the environment and miserable for their neighbors.

I know your point is that Plumber Joe's being thrown under McCain's bus, and that we should have some compassion for a poor schlub who's trying to wiggle around illegally in a tightly regulated situation. Alright, fine. So was Jack Abramoff. How sorry should we feel for him?

The lesson:
If a political operative from the losing side approaches you, asking if you'd help your cousin's father-in-law's good buddy McCain by becoming the poster child for his losing campaign in a desperate and cynical move, run the other way, no matter what favors are being called in.

[hedgehog]

34. I'm guessing a couple of things about Joe the plumber. He spent three

years in Arizona before returning to Ohio. My guess is that he went out there because he heard there were a lot of construction jobs out there due to the housing boom. Once he got there, he found out that while construction still pays a good wage in Ohio (with all its nanny state licensing requirements); in Arizona construction is done by undocumented immigrants who work off the books by the day at very low wages. He couldn't make a living out there so he came back to family in Ohio. He may resent local union plumbers in Ohio because apprenticeships tend go to friends and family.

Can anyone come up with a better way to stir mutual resentment among the working classes than the above scenario?


My second guess? That his boss does a lot of cash work that never gets reported to the IRS. Joe might be doing the same.


All of this is speculation, of course.

[dropkickpa]

35. As the sister of a licensed union member journeyman plumber

I have to say, he and his boss (it's a 4 man business including bossman) do make a tidy profit off of unlicensed workers, as they get called to come in and repair and to do the job right after unlicensed Joe the plumber fucks it up. The licensing system is a means of verifying that the necessary training has been completed, and it's not that easy.

Being a union member gives members access to healthcare, unemployment benefits, defined contribution plans, pensions, and healthcare plans that a business with just 3-4 employees (as most plumbing businesses are) would never be able to afford, and also gives them the opportunity for education and continuing education they'd otherwise not have (being a union member, my brother payed a much lower rate for his journeyman classes and books). How is that a bad thing???

[mitchum]

44. That fcking bonehead wanted to play the big man and call out Obama...

by regurgitating right wing barking parrot talking points. He brought this upon himself.
Stupid prole.

[Leopolds Ghost]

7. Now that folks are dumping all over every white working class guy who comes along

It may confuse some that he's changed his mind about Obama and is apparently now considering voting for him.

As someone whose worked in the construction trade part time, it saddens me to see the hatred and anti-populist mistrust of people who work in the building trades, fuck that.

And BTW, most tradesmen don't have licenses. You don't need a license to work for a master plumber.

If this country produced anything of value, professionals and students on blogs would be aware of such things -- having worked blue-collar jobs in their youth. But most Americans seem to regard such work as beneath them.

Is it any wonder guys like Joe have to be persuaded to support the Dem when people instinctively attack such people and pretend we don't need jobs like these any more? How will folks recieve him if he votes for Obama? Snarkily, I'd bet.

I'm tired of anti-populist rhetoric. The guy from Nation magazine on KO tonight was abominable. They are quickly going the way of the neolibs over at TNR.

[Roy]

9. Where can I find this change of heart?

That would indeed be some change of heart after all of the Sean Hannity type far right wing talking points he was spouting on TV.
This guy may not be a professional plumber but listening to him as I type, he is no more than a professional right wing victim of every liberal policy that may have help to keep his head above water to this point.

[lynnertic]

32. Touche.

Thanks for that salient point

listening to him as I type, he is no more than a professional right wing victim of every liberal policy that may have help to keep his head above water to this point.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

10. The county where he works says he DOES, in fact, need a license to work.

I don't think anyone had a problem with the polite respectful question and answer session between "Joe" and Obama......

It was Joe's foray in to the right-wing blogosphere, his desire to extend his 15 minutes and his subsequent description of Obama's forthright answer as "tap dancing like Sammy Davis".............not to mention his desire to use his new found fame to spout off his chicken-hawk stance on the war, his accusations of "socialism" and his disdain for social security.

The guy is an unlicensed hack. I wonder if he is even insured. And I'm sorry, but plumbing IS a trade where you SHOULD be licensed.

[catrose]

21. well, exactly

As a home owner I have some interest in knowing that the plumbing in my house has been installed properly. That's the goal of licensing and union education programs. Their success is an issue for another thread.

Our building inspector described each code provision as someone's epitaph.


















p

[lynnertic]

33. catrose your comment really bears repeating.

Wow.

Our building inspector described each code provision as someone's epitaph.

[KakistocracyHater]

13. is he for real or like Gannon?

That is what the fuss is about. I have always liked men who do real things (my dad was a plumber too) & am shocked that you feel Liberals disdain blue collar guys. I sure don't feel superior or disdain for the blue collar crowd. White collar crime is the biggest wrecker to our society & I vaguely despise them because I have watched them pit the world's workers against each other. Construction is central to all civilizations & it's pop culture that archaelogists study, they go & look at the homes people lived in, the kinds of clothes they wore, their food, their hairstyles, their government, their religion.

[Tuttle]

38. what about the Keating connection?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-j-elisberg/john-mccain-and-the-joe-t_b_135319.html

Tut-tut

[Born Free]

15. But most Americans seem to regard such work as beneath them.

Most people I know consider "tradesman" jobs better than most, but extremely hard to obtain. If plumbers jobs would have been plentiful, I would have helped and encouraged my son to become one, but in our area, those type of jobs that pay well were (and probably still are) very limited. Apprenticeships were very difficult to find and obtain, oh there were some sub minimum wage type jobs with no benefits. On the other hand computers were everywhere and an individual with the right ability and attitude could stand a pretty good chance of getting a job that would be equal to the pay and benefits the tradesman were getting. Over the years I made some poor decisions and ended up working many less than desirable jobs and I get fed up with so called "hands on" type workers that will repeatedly go against the democrats and unions and buy into the idea the republican trickle down approach is going to be better for them.

[GalleryGod]

18. LG, You've been posting here, for a long time,so I respect your opinion.

"most Americans" don't support an out of touch old Flyboy who uses "air quotes" when talking about the Health of the Mother Exception in Roe V. Wade.
If you are THIS hot about non-licensed plumbing...please..start your own thread.

[nichomachus]

20. Please unwad your panties

People are dumping on right-wing loudmouths who try to convince people they're on the verge of being millionaires, which is why they support the Bush Crime Family. Christ -- half the people here are union people and many other work or have worked in blue-collar jobs.

Get over yourself.

[LanternWaste]

24. I'm a ex-house framer...

I'm a ex-house framer (three years in college) and don't see this disdain and "anti-populist" hatred you allege.

My grandfather once told me, "insults are unique in that they can found anywhere if you look hard enough-- even in places where they don't exist..."

[dgibby]

25. Seriously doubt that,

considering that he equated Obama's positions on issues to Sammy Davis' tapdancing!
And I don't care if he's blue collar, white collar, or no collar, when I hire someone to do a job, it had better be done correctly.
Also, I wouldn't knowingly hire someone who didn't pay his taxes,or was an obivious racist, but that's just me.

[Carni]

27. I don't think it's a hatred of trades people or Plumber Joe

People (myself included) assumed this guy was a plant by the McCain campaign/GOP

I certainly have no problem with Mr W's profession.

[lynnertic]

30. You keep asserting Americans' disdain for blue-collar work when it's just

not true.

[fascisthunter]

36. I'm a White Male and You are Reading Way too Much into this

by a long shot.

There is nothing Anti-populist in this thread either. The guy is a low-life liar who worked to help a fascist, and anti-populist fascist into power. Snap out of it.


PS - Joe or whatever the hell his name is.... he does NOT represent anything populist or blue-collar. He's a liar, an idiot and a right wing tool who wants to destroy populism. How you could ignore this to take issue with this thread is very puzzling.

[mitchum]

45. I assume you built a lot of straw men when you worked in the construction trade part time.

Obviously, you picked up that skill somewhere.

[dysfunctional press]

48. as someone who's worked in the trades FULL time- i don't see what you're talking about...

"hatred and anti-populist mistrust of people who work in the building trades.."

i just don't see it that way at all.

"most tradesmen don't have licenses"

union guys have union cards- and if you're going to let a tradesman work on your house- he'd better be bonded and insured- and in many places that also requires being licensed.

i still do occasional side jobs for people/friends plumbing/electrical/carpentry type of stuff- but i had to turn one girl down who wanted to replace the kitchen faucet in her older third floor co-op apartment in evanston...there were no shut off valves for the water under the sink, and no way to turn the water off completely to the individual units, and i wasn't allowed to shut off the entire building. i did get it down to a trickle in her unit- but i told her that there was no way i was goiing to attempt it without being able to shut it off completely- specifically BECAUSE i wasn't bonded or insured to do the work. had there been a problem, we BOTH could have ended up with some hefty bills from it.

[Algorem]

12. McCain needs a plumber because he's going to be circling the bowl until Nov. 4th

when he finally goes to his well deserved watery political grave.

he's getting very dizzy.

[nichomachus]

19. Give me a break

Thinking about buying the plumbing business where he works? Come on. The guy is an unskilled laborer, a single father who makes about $40K. He's not thinking about buying anything but a six pack and a Playboy.

He's just a right-wing loudmouth with grandiose ideas about his own importance and his own success.

[NJCher]

28. buying a plumbing business--hah

He's not thinking about buying anything but a six pack and a Playboy.

Well, we all know why he wouldn't be buying a Hustler.

Algorem, first laugh of the day award goes to you. :rofl:



Cher

[HopeHoops]

31. So how much did the McCain camp pay Joe Weaselfucker to be a plant?

I bet it wasn't enough to cover being fired - the state is sending his employer notice because of the violation.

[fascisthunter]

37. they should be paying him....

because he fucked himself for them.... although without realizing what he had got himself into....

[last_texas_dem]

40. All the Repugs and their like-minded media colleagues (FAUX News, etc.) care about

is that the dude attacked Obama. They don't give a shit that he misrepresented himself on several fronts, and may not have much of an idea of what he's talking about. It's all about appearances over substance for them. Not too surprising; considering, they've set someone like Sarah Palin up as an example.

[depakid]

42. Here are what seem to me to be the salient points:

Aside from the fact that he's on record as a tax dodger, he doesn't seem to grasp:

1. The difference between gross receipts and taxable income; or

2. The nature of marginal taxation rates. Several tax analysts looked at his numbers and the consensus was in his FICTITIOUS situation, he'd pay all of around $773 more per year under Obama's plan!

Under his REAL LIFE situation, where public records show that he makes approximately $40,000 per year, he would save (single without dependents) $481 per year under the Obama plan. $456.27 more than the $24.79 he would receive under McCain’s plan.

You can see for yourselves how much you might save or have to pay by using the tax calculator for Obama's or McCain's plans from the non-partisan Tax Policy Institute here:

http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/

Sadly, Joe the Plumber is just one of millions of hard working people who've been bamboozled by talk radio types and divisive Republican rhetoric into voting against their own interests- for politicians who have proven to care not one lick about us. Hopefully, this year, people will have learned that lesson, albeit the hard way.

[superconnected]

43. Everyone should care - at least if you live in his town. He's going to show up and do your plumbing

and he doesn't have a license. Pretty soon he'll own the whole business without a license and not paying taxes.

[crossroads]

46. What a shit stirrer!

[unkachuck]

47. "...symbol of the entrepreneurial spirit..."

....more symbolic of a plastic fake like the ever-morphing johnny mcsame....johnny's been continuously babbling about his 'Joe the Plumber'. Why?

....johnny is belching never-ending smoke up our ass....johnny wouldn't know a real plumber if he seen one....can you imagine multi-million dollar seven mansion mcsame worrying about a plumber after the election?