NY officer kills self after fatal stun gun case

[sasquatch]

Source: Associated Press

NEW YORK - A police lieutenant committed suicide Thursday, days after he ordered another officer to fire a stun gun at a naked, distraught man who then fell to his death, police said.

The body of Lt. Michael Pigott, a 21-year police veteran, was found in a police locker room at a former airfield in Brooklyn, dead apparently of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, said Paul Browne, deputy commissioner for public information. He used a weapon that was not his, police said.

<snip>

On Wednesday, Pigott had apologized, saying he was "truly sorry."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081002/ap_on_re_us/officer_killed;_ylt=ArP8oXFtZj5w_XgPEGq.6P1vzwcF

---

I have nothing to say that would be productive.

[coffeenap]

1. Sadness....nt

[closeupready]

2. If he was the one who stunned this guy into falling,

well, what can I say? I'm not being facetious or coarse, but that guy had a mother.

[WriteDown]

3. Perhaps he shouldn't have been.....

naked running around like a lunatic in the streets? Let's not forget that he only fell 10ft. I don't think a taser should have been used, but the outcome was really one in a million.

[femmedem]

4. He wasn't running around in the streets. He was on a ledge, obviously mentally ill.

Especially if the ground was hard--a sidewalk, for example--no, it was not a one in a million chance someone could die from that fall. When you're unconscious, you're not controlling your fall to protect your head.

[WriteDown]

7. A lot of assumptions there....

This guy was running around naked too.

http://news.aol.com/article/father-kills-sex-offender-amid-break-in/193392

[femmedem]

10. I don't think these two cases are very similar.

This man's mother called the police because her son was suicidal, and they found him on a ledge. That's not an assumption--that's in the article. Sure, he was swinging a fluorescent light. But if the cops kept their distance he wasn't a threat. This was completely unnecessary. And they knew from the mother's phone call that he was in crisis.

[WriteDown]

16. What would you suggest you do to someone swinging...

a long dangerous object? The first priority is to subdue someone like that. The police do not wait for him to actually hurt someone.

[femmedem]

20. It doesn't have the range of a gun. I understand fear that he might throw it.

And I would not want to be a police officer making these decisions. But I think they could have backed off, tried to talk him down, and scrambled to get a net or something to break the fall in place.

I have to get off the computer now, so please don't think I'm rude for not responding if you reply to this.

Peace out.

[Steelworker In OH]

23. They Should

have backed off and waited till they could get an inflatable device under the ledge. that’s what they do for a lot of jumper scenarios. The cops acted to swiftly and anyone who carries one should know what a taser does to the human body, if he’s in convulsions from the shock, of course he'll fall, and not be able to control his landing.

It's a big misjudgment on 2 officers parts, the lieutenant who ordered the stun shot, and the officer who actually pulled the gun and used it. I'd rather take the risk of being reprimanded for disobeying a direct order (which probably would have been dismissed considering the circumstances) than to follow it and run the risk of permanent injury or death to someone who is mentally unstable and is not directly threatening my life.

It's a sad story all the way around and just another example of people who have athority making bad choices. Wonder if they have put the officer who used the taser on suicide watch yet?

[uppityperson]

25. Standing naked on a ledge, what danger was he to others? HOW could he hurt someone?

Running amok down on the street, swinging something, I can see might be an issue. But naked and up 10 ft on a ledge? How about taking time, backing off, taking their time to prepare for him falling after getting tasered? What was the rush?

[WriteDown]

44. Getting poked with a long, dangerous bulb can put....

people on edge. 8 feet is a LONG glass tube. I don't necessarily think a taser was the right option, but I can see what motivated it.

"He then stood there, jabbing at officers with an 8-foot fluorescent light.

The lieutenant ordered another officer to fire the stun gun. The 50,000-volt shock immobilized Morales, who then toppled headfirst to the ground."

[uppityperson]

54. Up 10 ft on a ledge, swinging a 8 ft long lightbulb. Do the math.

Even crouching down on a ledge, if people on the ground were to stand back, oh, 8 ft, they wouldn't get poked.

[WriteDown]

55. These people only 2ft? n/t

[uppityperson]

57. Is he swinging it with his toes?

Perhaps you didn't read the message part of that post.

[WriteDown]

58. He was trying to poke the cops....

coming down the fire escape to help him. I'm surprised the ledge held his weight to begin with. You can definitely see its a hectic situation. You can watch the video at http://www.nypost.com/video/ . Just search for "taser."

[uppityperson]

59. Here is direct link. Thank you for that. It won't play, argh.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09242008/news/regionalnews/cops_taser_deranged_nake_man_130563.htm

That story tells more than the OP did. I would like to see the video as what they say there is different from what I read in OP and would like to see it as being on a 10 ft ledge swinging a 8 ft lightbulb is different from what this story says.

[WriteDown]

61. Yeah, I had to switch...

from my iphone to my pc to get it to play earlier. It looks pretty frantic.

[uppityperson]

62. Thank you. Based on what that says, I was wrong.

Tragic situation for 2 people, their families and friends.

[WriteDown]

77. No worries....

Its a tragedy for sure. Hope both families get through it.

[w4rma]

84. Dude, why are you defending the actions of this officer. Its obvious that the officer felt they

were wrong. The officer killed himself because he knew that he had made a mistake that cost someone their life. The officer was a good man who fucked up, once, very badly ending the life of another human being. This officer was obviously very very distraught over his own decision.

Don't defend the officer's actions. It's obvious he wouldn't have wanted you to. :(

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msanthrope]

43. A fluorescent lightbulb??? Look, this is New York City.....

A lightbulb shouldn't even faze these cops. They should have waited for medical backup, or the unit that deals with mentally disturbed cases.

[Dorian Gray]

41. I assume

the cop regretted what happened and felt extraordinary guilt, hence his taking his own life.

The whole situation is very tragic. The man who fell to his death after being tasered, and the cop who kills himself as a result. Everything about the situation is horribly sad.

[closeupready]

12. So fucking what?

? You weren't born in your birthday suit?

[WriteDown]

17. I don't stroll around in it...

or go to work in it.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pattmarty]

9. This is exactly the fucking point, you now have these............

......so called "non-lethal" weapons that are "easy" to use and these mental midget cops just whip it out (pun intended) and use it like a fucking toy.

[WriteDown]

11. You could always use a club or your....

hands. Hard to say what this naked guy was up to.

http://news.aol.com/article/father-kills-sex-offender-amid-break-in/193392

[pattmarty]

13. Exactly right, they just don't want to get 'their hands dirty". easier to use a tool.

[WriteDown]

18. No offense....

but i have no desire to touch a naked man either. especially one swinging a fluorescent tube.

[pattmarty]

31. Ok, then you can use a gun.....

[closeupready]

14. NO! dying from a 10-foot-fall to concrete is absolutely NOT a one in a million chance.

More like probably 50% chance, with probably a 95% chance that you will be permanently disabled due to such a fall.

[cabluedem]

38. Quite true. Falling on hard concrete would have shattered bones easily.

[Zhade]

33. That carries a death sentence now?

Go back to the conservative pit you came from, you heartless-

[cabluedem]

36. Apparently so. I don't know this country anymore.

[cabluedem]

35. Thats a great rationalization. My wife freaked out years ago like this. I guess she would be tazered

and dead nowadays, even though she is quite well mentally now.

Good riddance to bad trash. Karma is a real bitch.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. all the newspapers in nyc, write this as a man who was mentally ill

what a stupid thing for you to say

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. How do they know it was self-inflicted?

When you have a room full of potential killers, any one of whom could have a grudge or motive. And he brought in an unauthorized gun to kill himself, or used another officers gun? Smells fishy if you ask me.

[drgonzosghost]

6. This just compounds the tragedy....

I think it was stupid police tactics (brutality) that caused the naked man's death. But the fact that Pigott (could he BE anything but a cop with that name?) took his own life shows this haunted him in ways we may never understand. This is just sad all the way around.

[pattmarty]

8. Good. Cops are going to have to start "paying" for..................

.......the "accidents" that THEY ARE CAUSING. Let's start getting back to holding people responsible for their actions ie police, bankers, insurance companies. Hey, the grunts that work everyday and have to pay their bills on time or else don't get any slack, so fuck all the rest of these ass holes that have had a free ride for 30 yrs.

[MilesColtrane]

22. Cheering a suicide.

That's a new one for here.

Nice.

[annarbor]

27. No shit....

Sad story for all involved...

[pattmarty]

29. READ my post before you start with your BS.

[tburnsten]

63. I did, you were excited about a law enforcement veteran

Killing himself after he gave an order that resulted in a man's death. Obviously he was quite human and not a brutal or otherwise bad person, why would you cheer his suicide? Granted it wasn't a very safe move for the naked man but you have to understand that law enforcement officers in leadership positions like the deceased are the subject of a lot of pressure to meet time goals, keep things going smoothly, not allow disturbed people to threaten others with glass rods while naked.

[DrCory]

79. I read it...

The headline: "NY officer kills self after fatal stun gun case"
Your response: "Good. Cops are going to have to start "paying" for..................
.......the "accidents" that THEY ARE CAUSING."

That you are pleased the officer in question committed suicide is obvious by your use of the word "Good" in this context and that you believe his death is an appropriate form of "paying".

[pattmarty]

28. Did you cheer for Hitler????????

[tburnsten]

64. I actually wish hitler had survived long enough to be captured

by the Russian army. German forces were fighting tooth and nail to get through Berlin to surrender to the Allies instead of the Russians, I can only imagine what they would have done with hitler.

[pattmarty]

30. I take it by your reply you support your local police no matter......

.....what. All the accidents over the last 30 yrs involving the police are just that accidents? I was/am making a statement with that post if you read beyond the one word "Good".

[cabluedem]

39. Sean Bell. No charges. Thats all we need to know about how police get off the hook.

for a completely needless murder.

[cabluedem]

37. I have no problem with seeing a human who was responsible for the murder of another human

having a conscience and committing suicide.

It was his destiny after destroying another human life, with no good reason.

[w4rma]

85. I have a problem with suicide and capitol punishment in general.

Think about it, if the officer committed suicide over this then he was a good man, who made an *extremely* dumb mistake, to begin with, therefore the world lost a good man who could have done a lot of good over the rest of his lifetime. At least with capitol punishment, people whom are inherently bad are put to death.

Fuck your asshole opinion that suicide can ever be a good thing.

[cabluedem]

86. Right back at you. Suicides are often people who did very bad things and..

use suicide as a way out. You assume to much and fuck your self righteous opinions about people.

[w4rma]

87. Wrong. You are absolutely wrong. (nt)

[Posteritatis]

88. Hi pot! (nt)

[jkappy]

15. the Wrong Man

why Piggott and not one of the much more vicious officers who have been implicated in the NYPD murders of young Black persons---so many over the years and all freed from serving any prison time.

[truthisfreedom]

19. THey should have had counselors all over that guy. And there should be more tools in the "bat belt"

that cops carry around with them. And they should be trained for dealing with mental health issues. Maybe what we need is another year of training for every cop.

[mainegreen]

48. Bingo. n/t

[tburnsten]

65. MORE on the belt?

Those things are already completely coated in apparatus! Where would it go? It is unfortunate that the man put himself in a situation that resulted in his death, and it is unfortunate that they were unable to safely retrieve him any other way, but officers do tend to have quite a bit of training and a wide array of responsibilites already. An on hand crisis specialist of some sort would probably be both more effective at dealing with a disturbed person as well as giving the police someone to fall back on, so that containing a person in this sort of situation and waiting for qualified help would be more of a reality.

[Taverner]

24. How do you solve a death problem with more death?

I just don't get it...

None of these folks had to die - the tazered and the commanding officer.

[uppityperson]

26. Indeed, it is sad all the way around.

[cabluedem]

34. Karma at work. What goes around come around.

Too bad, so sad.

[Robb]

42. Wow.

Responses like that make me ashamed to share a species with you.

Oh, and welcome to DU.

[cabluedem]

56. Guess you missed my post about how my wife had a mental break and did much the same thing.

No sympathy for out-of-control cops who harm people who are mentally ill from me.

[tburnsten]

66. "out of control cops" always end their lives after

a fatal screw-up don't they? :spank:

[uppityperson]

72. "No sympathy... for cops... who are mentally ill from me." from that poster indeed.

[tburnsten]

73. It's like he can't understand

that not everything is fully intentional, and that there are a variety of pressures on an officer above and beyond keeping the person causing the disturbance they are repsonding to safe. Obviously they do everything in their power, but they are not supermen, they cannot just shrug off being bashed with a flourescent lightbulb and lift the man to safety. Their safety matters too, and while it is unfortunate that the disturbed man died, it very clearly was not the goal of the officers to hurt him, they were just trying to resolve the situation as safely as possible.


The man on the ledge is not the only person who could have been seriously injured. Sometimes we expect too much from our law enforcement.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[magellan]

40. Sad

Tasers are too easy and it's making cops stupid.

RIP Lt. Piggot

[graegoyle]

45. I would say:

Tazers are being relied upon by too many stupid cops.

[magellan]

74. That's an unsupportable claim

Provide a link to data showing "too many stupid cops rely on tazers" including a comparative study of what qualifies a cop as "stupid" -- or STFU.

The fact that this officer felt such remorse for his mistake that he took his own life should evoke compassion, not a pile-on mentality. Hopefully his suicide will lead to a better study of tazers and more rigorous training on their appropriate use, if not their complete abandonment as a "weapon of choice".

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. i am sorry the man killed himself but sorrier that he killed someone else first

[mainegreen]

49. Stupid is all over this thread like flies to shit. n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

50. Not all cops are bad. The fact that this guy was

so distraught over the death that he caused kind of proves that he could feel remorse for a stupid/bad (not evil) decision.

Not sure what dancing on his grave will accomplish as far as getting rid of the truly cruel cops that are out there. :shrug:

[tburnsten]

67. Thanks for not being a crazy dick with your post

It's refreshing to know that at least two or three people on DU aren't enraptured with the thought of a dead public servant.

[progressivebydesign]

52. there was no way for him to know that the man would fall to his death.

Sounds like a double tragedy here.

[marew]

53. Oh please! No way to know?

Did you even read the original story? He was on a LEDGE!! Department guidelines were violated!

"Almost immediately, police said the use of the stun gun appeared to violate department guidelines, which explicitly bar their use "in situations where the subject may fall from an elevated surface."

[uppityperson]

60. True, but he could have assumed the man would fall when tased.

Double tragedy indeed.

[closeupready]

68. self-delete

I misread the above post, sorry.

[uppityperson]

69. no problem, been there myself and I agree.

[closeupready]

71. Absolutely.

:hi:

[closeupready]

70. He was on a ledge, buck naked, standing 10 feet above a concrete sidewalk.

use your brain.

[WriteDown]

76. You probably need to watch the video.

www.nypost.com/video. Search for "taser." He's poking the officers on the fire escape stairs right next to him. Also, its not so much of a ledge as a metal awning. Can't believe it even supported his weight. The situation looks panicked.

[crossroads]

75. How sad - this multiplies the tragedy!

Guess he couldn't live with what he did... this police state mentality has been fostered and allowed to grow under the Patriot Act! My God... something needs fixing in our society and we need curbs on control by authority figures!
CR

[Gwendolyn]

78. Sad all around. The officer left a note.

"The NYPD lieutenant who gave the deadly order to Taser a naked Brooklyn man killed himself Thursday - leaving behind a heart-rending suicide note saying he did it to protect his kids, police sources said.

Emergency Service Unit Lt. Michael Pigott wrote that he put a bullet into his head over fears that his three children would see him in handcuffs or behind bars, the sources said.

He left the note, along with pictures of his wife and children, in a locker room at ESU headquarters in Brooklyn before pulling the trigger on his 46th birthday."





http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/10/02/2008-10-02_nypd_lt_michael_pigott_who_ordered_fatal.html

[Fumesucker]

80. That's not heart-rending...

It's mind-bending..

He killed himself so his kids wouldn't have to see him in handcuffs or behind bars?

That's so egregiously stupid I'm having a hard time believing it.

And I live in the Bible belt, where I freakin' *marinade* in teh stoopid every time I go out of my home.

[Gwendolyn]

81. We don't know the exact wording of teh note...

...it may be heart-rending in the way he expressed himself. He apologized for what he did, and asked that the other officer who did the tazing not be blamed. That's at least honorable.

I'm sure his kids would prefer their father alive, but he was obviously not well either. He may have been buckling under stress before the incident, which might've caused him to make a bad decision. It's speculation, but then again, that's what we're here for, to speculate, and to judge.

[Fumesucker]

83. Think about what he has said to his children

In his final words to them..

He blamed his kids for him killing himself, that is something that will follow them all their lives if the note is ever revealed to them and bears any resemblance to what has been reported.

To kill yourself is one thing, to blame your kids for you doing it is entirely another.

[cabluedem]

91. What a sad sad hopeless coward he was.

[cabluedem]

90. What a spineless coward he was!

[zanne]

82. Damn. Sad on both sides. nt

[pork medley]

89. here's hoping more police follow the example of this true servant of the public

:toast:

[cabluedem]

92. How can they protect the public by killing them? That said I am glad he "retired" himself.