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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 02:17 PM
Original message
For some, job loss can become a gain
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/7844234.htm

Yes, a layoff can pack a powerful punch, but it also can create the pause that refreshes, giving rise to a new career, a new business and, most important, a new sense of optimism about the future.

"After a couple of layoffs, they say, 'I'm going to take control of my life. I'm not going to be laid off again,' " said Lynne Cutler, president of Women's Opportunities Resource Center, a nonprofit group in Philadelphia that trains entrepreneurs.

That is not to minimize the brutal effects of an economy that stubbornly refuses to create jobs, nor the poverty and anguish a layoff can cause. Neither is every career change voluntary, glorious or profitable.

Downsized with early retirement in 1993, Domenick Frese now works at Wal-Mart. His health insurance co-pay is more than his pension, which means more hours at Wal-Mart to make ends meet. "No vacations, no trips to the barber - I cut my own hair - no movies or ball games," said Frese, of South Philadelphia.

I printed the most negative aspect of this article. Mostly it is just "rah, rah", lay-offs can be great BS. I am very disappointed in the Philadelphia Inquirer, which, while not a liberal paper, can usually be counted on to be objective.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. There's been A LOT of this crap going on recently....
they're trying new spin: out-sourcing is good...getting laid off
is great... :eyes:
Sickening...
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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. "I'll never be laid off again!"
because I'll never be able to find employment again!
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here is a copy of the letter to the editor I wrote in response:
I was very disappointed in your Sunday article entitled “For some, job loss can be a gain.” I feel that one important element was missing from the article: a discussion about freedom of choice. The increasing numbers of people who are laid off in this country lose their freedom of choice about where to work and what to do. While it is great that a select few have made lemonade out of this lemon of an economy, I think that the vast majority of the newly-unemployed would say that it is not worth the loss of status, income, and self-respect.

In addition, as the economy continues to decelerate, it will become harder and harder for those forced out of employment to find meaningful ways to support themselves. People aren’t going to be buying a lot of homemade handbags in the middle of a recession.

Please stop trying to put the best face on what is happening to our country right now, and start doing honest reporting about the collapse of our economy and the real challenges it represents.
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intheozone Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Great letter, Finnfan!
:yourock:
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. Write On FinnFan!
I hope they publish your piece!

The media uses these types of articles to discipline the unemployed.

It divides the labor and makes unemployed people think that they chose to be unemployed.

Its analogous to the right-wing's usage of the Asian 'model minority' stereotype to discipline African-Americans and Latinos: "If they can do it why can't you".

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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
55. Just a note: They are considering publishing my letter
Got an e-mail about it today. I'll let you all know if it happens. :bounce:
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Shooting a TV with a 45 may improve reception
Course I'm gonna bet the other way.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Who Moved my Cheese
The usual management psycho-gobbledygook. Imagine the opposite book: Who molotov cocktailed my Beamer? Boo-friggin'-hoo.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I hated that book! Whole dept had to read it though. n/t
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yeah, we had to read it too...
...just as they were shutting down the whole damned company.

Hated it too. I think the title should be: Pop-Psych Bullshit to Make You Think It's Your Fault the Company Went Under.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
42. they made us read it, too.
funny how the true religious conservative that owns my company is preaching about how we should accept change! Ha!
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banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. Not only
did I move it but I ate it... BBUUURRPP
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. PhiliInquirer to the laid off: LuckyDuckies...
what a crock.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
45. Laid off to Philly Inquirer: You're Next
When their wished fro deregulation comes and they can merge with local TV stations and then get bought out by even bigger fish, the people who wrote this article are going to start bleeding co-workers.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. or when the company
realizes how many jobs can be done through telecommuting... from cheaper labor source (in another country...)
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. Amen.
When will all these fools realize that THEY are just as expendable to the elite as WE are?

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. The benefits of changing jobs
Can be had at any time, voluntarily. So, this whole argument is a canard.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Loss of benefits, loss of pension, loss of self-estemm..
This is the biggest piece of bullshit I've seen.. So, what IS this? A new WHite House communcations blitz??? Yesterday I read that the job loss numbers aren't accurate because so many people are starting their own businesses when they lose their job. Uh.. yeah.. most unemployed people run out of benefits then take that 20k they have stashed in the couch to open a consulting firm or a flower shop. This SMELLS of Rove.
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is the same line of bs
that the media tries to feed my generation - the 55+ baby boomers - about how working until you're 80 is a good thing. Heaven forbid if you were to actually be able to retire and enjoy life for a few years before you croak!
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. Bush should use this
instead of telling people they have jobs, he should tell them they're lucky not to have jobs.



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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. So let's make Bu$h lucky -- and take away his job!
Like the bum did unto so many of us.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Maybe he can go to Congress and request...
...another couple billion to put a copy of Who Moved My Cheese? into the hands of every unemployed American.

He can claim it's part of his job "retraining" program.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. Next right wing news headline: "Cancer, it's really really great for you!"
Has there ever been a time in U.S. history when the entire media was so biased?
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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. "Who Moved My Cheese"
is a book written telling employers that they are doing their employees a favor when they laid them off ( See, they can move to get bigger cheese :eyes: )

We can only hope the writer and editor who's responsible can join those 'lucky duckies'
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. ",...the pause that refreshes,..."?!?!?!?!
Who the hell is this writer? Am I living on a different planet? The class gap has become enormous and the 95% of the rest of us at the bottom are suppose to be refreshed by a pause in poverty? Why do these people keep pushing a "dream" when reality is a nightmare? Is it simply to misdirect society such that nothing be done about obvious problems in this country?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
52. That has to be the stupidest line I've EVER read about job loss.
Yes, it's so very refreshing to be broke and wondering how to make the rent and feed your kids.

Here's hoping the idiot who wrote that - and the idiots who gave it their seal of approval - have a very refreshing pause of their own.

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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. "a new sense of optimism about the future"
my ass.

My husband received notice last Tuesday that he is one of the 100 or so employees of his company who will be losing their jobs by July. This is his second lay off since Bush took office.

There's nothing optimistic about this. The last time he was laid off, he had to take a significant reduction in pay to get another job. There is nothing to indicate this time will be any different. That is, if he can get another position at all. He's having to face the very real possibility that his education and his 22 years of experience are being rendered worthless. It's not easy to have optimism about starting over at 47 with 2 kids just a few years away from college.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I empathize, totally,...
,...having been scraping by for three years as a single mother on whatever odd job or contract work I can find while seeking FT employment. I am 41,...I financed my own eight years of education working as a cocktail waitress and, regrettably, indebting myself to the tune of $33K ('cause NOTHING was handed to me on a silver platter). How exactly am I to finance additional training/education? More loans? Please!!!! What additional training/education am I to pursue? How will more training/education serve me better than all that which I invested greated personal time and money?

My whole life have proven time and time again that,...success isn't based upon what you know (knowledge not necessarily being "power"),...but upon who you know. Is that really the case? I dunno. I only know what evidence my life has provided me.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. Liz . . .
. . . why doesn't your husband take his education and his 22 years of experience and start his own business so that he never gets laid off again?

TYY
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. NPR did this a year after ENRON
fried its employees and their retirement accounts. They found a couple of former employees that managed to make lemonade out of the lemons they were handed, and exploited it to no end, as if no one had gone bankrupt, lost their spouses, developed a drinking problem, etc. You'd think those people were going to thank Ken Lay for giving them a good f^#k.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. That's exactly what happened to me
I was off work for almost six years before I pulled myself up and started my own company. Now, as an on-site computer repair geek, using a small corner of my bedroom as my workstation, I charge clients $45 per hour (to be raised soon if the price of gas keeps going up).

It's GREAT taking control by yourself, FOR yourself!

(Anyone in the Dallas TX area needing computer repairs at a good price, PM me....)
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. you have not faced reality...
I'm being a bit nasty, I know. But here goes...

$45/hr @ 30 hours/week = $1350/week
You're not billing 40 hours a week as if you were working for a job shop. There's travel time, time spent marketing, time spent keeping records so that your real hourly wage is somewhat less than $45/hour once you figure out how many hours you spend.

$1350/week x 48 year = $64,800 year

No one wants computer help the last 2 weeks of the year and you are going to want two weeks vacation yourself (never mind other slow times in a year)

take a 30% tax rate so your net is 31,900

let's see... health insurance is going to be about $400/month if you are single and $1200/month if you are a family (remember no employer co pays)

There's also people not paying, checks bouncing... figure you might lose $500-1000 /year.

your car is having a lot more mileage so that you need to replace it earlier than if you were commuting. You are spending more on gas, you are assuming that you can pass the increase along to your customers. but...

You are not in a growth industry, as more people become unemployed, there will be more competition and your rate will go down in the future. By 2015 there will be 1/3 less jobs in the computer industry.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. math mistake here
your tax rate is 21,600 so your net income is 43,200 ...
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. You don't really "Work for yourself"
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 12:14 PM by BiggJawn
You work for whoever has $45 an hour to give you for fixing their computer. I figured that out REAL quick when I tried the "contract engineer thing"

If you TRULY "Worked for yourself", you could take a month off and go see Le Tour, or spend all winter in Cancun, or whatever. But in reality, you'll go "10 years without so much as a weekend off" as I've heard so many who "work for themselves" claim because your client base expects you to be there when THEY want you there, not when YOU want to be there.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. I'm aware of all the facts outlined in the above replies
I don't believe rent was mentioned, nor groceries, nor cat food...

Still, I'm far and beyond more independent an entity than your typical cube rat, factory worker, and so on. I'm pleased to state that after seven months "in business" I now have a base of commercial clients who use me for support and advice, and I've begun getting some rather lucrative jobs from referral. I even do work for a local Chamber Of Commerce. My list of satisfied clients is growing, and word of mouth is starting to work. I've also just put an ad in the Dallas Verizon Yellow Pages (a box ad, not just a listing).

I know "working for myself" is a misnomer, but when I have things to do I CAN be unavailable for jobs if I want. There's a great freedom in being an independent agent-- the most enjoyable part for me is meeting new people on a daily basis in their own environment. Some of the people I've met have crossed over from "client" status to "friend" status.

All in all, no matter what the mathematical realities and theoretical concepts, I consider myself a great success. I may never get rich from this, but damn, I'm sure HAPPY.

BTW, I've only had one customer not pay me, and that was because I handed the check he had written back to him. (It was a complicated story involving him, me, and the support person who had handed the job off to me.) I guarantee my work, and so far it seems to be working very well indeed.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. big problem
you forget... most people cannot start their own businesses. Not everyone should, either. Not unless you're willing to extensively automate everything manual laborers do.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yeah sure whatever
You gain a LOT of free time at the expense of an income, but hey, who needs money to pay for things like gas, food, house, rent, healthcare, etc.

Who needs money anyway?

:scarcasm OFF:
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JohnnyFianna1 Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Oh my God
Oh my God no No No NO NO NO it's happening again! Please no stop. Oh my God not again!!

This is not the first time the press has put a smiley face on unemployment. During a speech in 1982 Raygun (unemployment 10.1 %) made a speech about VOODOO economics success and how it was necessary to have a certain number of Americans unemployed at any given time because of new technology in order to keep the jobs in "rotation". The press hailed him as "The next great conservative." By the time 1984 rolled around unemployment was down (I forgot, I think 4.1%) and Raygun calls it the "fulfillment of the American dream" There is massive growth (sound familiar) however the situation hasn't actually gotten better in the last 4 years. The growth was mearly a sign of the economy returning back to it's usual crapiness. In other words the Reagen Boom only looks good when compared with the Raygun Recession. Meanwhile the press praises him, the Democrats nominate Walter Mondale instead of Gary Hart or John Glenn (both were polling near Raygun. And in 1984, well you know the rest.
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JPace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. And what right wing think tank is coming out
with crap like this?

Somehow I don't think this one is
going to go over, the public is
beginning to feel betrayed.
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TOhioLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
27. Golly Gee!!!
I am SO looking forward to losing my job in less than a month...
(sarcasm off!!)
Trekkerlass
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
30. Anyone else have the feeling that

this country will wind up having an event to rival the French Revolution?

"Who Moved My Cheese?" = Let Them Eat Cake

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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. The Revolution Is Coming Friends, There Is No Doubt About It!
eom
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. No. Why? "Hey! Nekkid Titties on Tee-Vee!"
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 12:23 PM by BiggJawn
When you can look at a thread on Class Warfare and see people espousing the opinion that "$100,000 ain't all that rich", you can see that nobody is going to be very interested in manning the baricades or storming the Bastille....

The French Peasantry KNEW they were peasants. In this country, even the poor think they're "Middle-Class" as long as they know of someone poorer than themselves. and the Middle Class think they're actually "Rich", even though none of them have ever had lunch with The Donald...

Nobody's gonna rise up, they're just gonna stay home staring at their TV, waiting for another flash of Janet's Tit until the bulldozer comes over the top of them....
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
33. Start your own business: who will be your clients,
..in an economy where ever more people lose their job, causing them to have no money, causing them to not be able to be your clients?
Not to mention regulations and taxes that don't exactly favor small startup businesses.

The legalized illegal immigrants don't have much money either (since they're cheap labor), and the workers that now have US jobs in India won't be needing your services in the US.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. By way of parenthesis.....
Unemployment is Good.
Deficits Don't Matter
War is Peace
Ignorance is Strength
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
35. so the rich are allout of luck getting no refreshing pause
i mean, they're all about gaining wealth, why don't they give up their job?
Probably because "it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it" - poor bastards.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. "Free to find NEW Cheez!"
What a crock of shit. Same line we all got fed during the Ray-Gun years.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
39. The big lie
If you live at your parents house and work out of your bedroom once and a while for a $45 cash payment, and I suspect don't declare the income, this a career does not make.

It is very difficult to "start your own business". It was always hard but now even harder.

The typical citizen around here either: Works for the government directly or indirectly, works for the business started years ago by a relative, or is involved with some kind of legal or medical trade on the fringe.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
40. Some sample headlines: "Business Pulse Beating Faster"
"Showing Best In Weeks For Reserve Banks"

"Bright Spots Grow On US Business Map"

"Revival In Trade Gains Momentum Throughout East"

"Capacity Production Reported In Some Cities: Idled Employees Find Jobs"

"Road Is Clear To Prosperity, Washington Feels"

All of these headlines came out in national newspapers during the week of 28 July, 1932, the same week the Bonus Army was driven out of DC at bayonet point.

If "journalists" felt confident about happy-talking their way through the Great Depression, what's to keep their descendants from doing the same thing 70 years later?
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benfranklin1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Thanks for the good object lesson.
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 01:07 PM by benfranklin1776
Those headlines are amazing. They sound an awful lot like the bunk we have been hearing the last three years. More proof that history repeats.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
41. The answer is a barter economy
We'll at least be able to trade skills to keep going, but that means people in local communities are going to have to come together and help each other. Unfortunately our culture is quickly reaching new levels of brute-mentality, so it may be hard to overcome prejudices and divisiveness.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Once the dollar crashes, this will be reality.
Otherwise, you die. Simple as that.

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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
44. Rush has been preparing the minions for this for years...
telling everyone who complains of losing their job to 'just go and start your own business'. Never mind the percentage of new businesses that fail in the first year. Never mind that the odds are stacked against the individual entrepeneur. Never mind that it's near impossible to compete with the Wal-Marts who skirt employment laws, hire illegals at rock bottom wages, and buy from 3rd world countries in mass quantities. I agree that being self-employed removes any wage ceiling, but only a very few will actually do better in their own business.
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Flightful Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
50. I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand
If you're stuck in a crappy dead-end job it can be a good thing. Ten years ago I was working in a succession of low-skill jobs and at the peak of my earning power made all of $20k. Got the axe during the '91 recession, went through a really hellish year while acquiring skills for an entirely different line of work. Within two years I was making twice as much.
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
54. The Article IS Objective
Some people do gain from a lay-off, that's all it is saying. It's showing another side of the issue. I gained from being laid-off. I had a job I hated that I couldn't quite get around to leaving because I had vacation time and a decent salary. The lay-off comes and it was like a giant weight was lifted from my shoulders. I had feared being laid-off the entire time I worked there.

I had severance, so I had the time to take "the pause that refreshes" and I decided to check out an old field I had never gone into. During the lay-off I learned to live on less money, so the lower paying job was an option that I took. Six months later I was researching grad school in my college major, which I had given up ever working in. I am now in grad school and loving it.

This doesn't happen to everybody, and I had some advantages that many people don't have. But there is nothing unusual about what happened to me, and I'm not the only person in the world it has happened to. It doesn't lessen the hardship of people who are in dire straits due to lay-off, it just shows a different side of the coin.
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