Sound of silence (Yellowstone snowmobile ban) | Missoulian

[Ediacara]

Sound of silence

By BECKY BOHRER Associated Press


A snowmobiler drives past a Days Inn in
West Yellowstone on Wednesday. Snowmobiles
still cruise the town, but in fewer numbers
than in past seasons.
Photo by BECKY BOHRER/Associated Press

Snowmobile town trying to cope with changes to park's winter plan

WEST YELLOWSTONE - Getting a table at Jackie LaFever's sports bar and restaurant is easy this winter. So is finding a room at Vernetta Steele's motel - or most that are still open in town.

This town just outside Yellowstone National Park is much quieter than normal, and for many residents, the mood is bleaker.

While snowmobiles still cruise the powdery streets of the self-proclaimed "snowmobile capital of the world," the numbers are far below those in previous years. Residents blame it on a federal judge's ruling that reversed Yellowstone's snowmobile rules just hours before the start of the season in December and on the confusion and uncertainty that have surrounded the issue for months.

"Just tell them: Yellowstone is open and West Yellowstone is open," LaFever says from behind the bar at Bullwinkle's Saloon & Restaurant.

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[GreenGreenLimaBean]

1. I have no sympathy was dispoilers of Nature

Its Friggin Yellowstone National Park! Is nothing sacred in USA.

[neverforget]

2. As long as you can make a buck of it, it's not sacred or at least

that's the thinking of some.

[LostInTheMaise]

12. Boston was and is built on a wetland

Anything for a buck eh?

[LostInTheMaise]

11. What part of nature do you dispoile GreenGreenLimaBean???

None? Nothing? Are you a God? How much better are you than a snowmobiling family?

[oegthe]

36. comment

angry, aren't we? having had the misfortune to live amongst loud people i've often observed how nasty they become when opposed.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Just look at that asshole in that picture!

Stupid joy ride on some polluting noisy unnecessary piece of shit. No doubt you need a big SUV with a trailer to haul the bastard around with. It's no wonder that the issue caught the attention of bush & he championed the right to use them in Yellowstone.

[LostInTheMaise]

7. Just look at that asshole in that picture??????

What is the problem? He is riding on the asphalt covered with snow just like the cars and trucks do. Newer snowmobiles get the same or better mileage than passenger trucks. Why do you call him an asshole?

[HawkerTyphoon]

23. Calling him an asshole

might be excessive. But the odds are 1,000 to 1 that he's not riding one of the "newer snowmobiles."

[LostInTheMaise]

25. When the EPA set new car pollution rules

How many people junked their cars and bought a brand new EPA approved care right away? Why do you hold a double standard against snowmobiliers that just want to see Yellowstone ON THE ROADS like they have been or thirty years. There are new EPA rules now and just like cars they need to be phased in.

I know a lot of people here hate snowmobilers but it does not make it right anymore than some people that don't like joggers in bright spandex.

[gate of the sun]

4. about 26 years ago I was snowmobiling

outside of Yellowstone I was completly ignorant of the enviromental impact. I hate to see an enviromental decision......hurting people when the economy sucks so bad but it has to be......to me it's kindof like Moab Utah where they wanted to do drilling for something or another and people move there and get jobs doing just that....then a judge says you can't drill there anymore and the people lose their jobs and the town becomes smaller again...some business's close up again.....they should never have been there in the first place..Drilling should never have been allowed. We must take care of our planet..West Yellowstone is absolutly beautiful.

[LostInTheMaise]

10. 26 years ago snowmobiles were dirty and noisy

Today they are as clean or cleaner and quieter than the same vehicles that use the SAME roads in yellowstone. This is nothing but a hate fest against snowmobilers.

[HawkerTyphoon]

24. more misinformation

Not one in a thousand snowmobiles in use today are the cleaner quieter 4-cycle type. It's not snowmobilers (per se), it's the noise and pollution from the 2-cycle engines.

[LostInTheMaise]

26. 2006 EPA rules demand cleaner sleds - and they will be cleaner

When the EPA in the 70's laied down the rules there was a phase out period. Why do you think snowmobilers don't deserve the same?

Hatred of a persons recreation choice is not a good excuse to ban them and is very anti-Liberal.

[HawkerTyphoon]

5. Good news from Yellowstone

My friends in the park (I work summers at Old Faithful) tell me that the peace and quiet are shocking. For years, the worst job in the park has been fee collection (gate keeper) in West Yellowstone in the winter. The noise was deafening, and the smoke nauseating.

Two of the summer rangers that I work with are guiding 4-cycle snowmobile trips into the park this winter and they are very pleased with the new rules. Besides less noise & pollution, having guides reduces the illegal speeds, Bison hazing and off road travel (also illegal)

[mac2]

6. Noise in Yellowstone gone.

Thanks for the information. I've been to Yellowstone in the mid-seventies in the snow. It was not crowded and very quiet. I can't imagine the abuse to the land and air from those snowmobiles. It's like having one hundred bikers outside your door.

I worried about some of those snowmobilers getting hurt off the trails and suing the park or risking the lives of rangers. They always go where they shouldn't and get into problems. Guided tours are much better but still very noisy.

Why doesn't some enterprising farmer set up paths for snowmobilers? Here's a business opportunity if ever there was one.

As if the fires didn't do enough damage for hundreds of years to the water and forests...animals.

[LostInTheMaise]

8. It's like having one hundred bikers outside your door.???

I don't get your complaint. Thousands (unlimited actually) of straight pipe harleys are allowed into Yellowstone on the same roads that the newer and quiet snowmobiles have just been banned upon. What is fair about that? Why allow louder and more polluting bikes and not cleaner and quieter snowmobiles?

[HawkerTyphoon]

22. misinformation

The "newer, quiet snowmobiles" are NOT banned from the roads in Yellowstone. Only the old, noisy, polluting 2-cycle ones.

[LostInTheMaise]

27. Check your facts

Next year ZERO snowmobiles are allowed in even if they emit ZERO pollution and can't be heard. It is a stupid and hateful ban and will be overturned. Even Bernie Sanders supports clean and quiet snowmobile ON THE ROADS in Yellowstone.

This Summer we are planning a 250,000 biker run on Yellowstone and most of the bikes will be straight pipe Harleys that are louder thyan ANY snowmobile. We will be on the same roads the sleds are now banned on and be spewing noise and fumes and IT IS ALL LEGAL.

This stupid ban is about hate and nothing more and we plan to expose that FACT.

[LostInTheMaise]

9. The noise is gone? Really?

What about the millions of Summer vehicles that pollute even more than a modern snowmobile? Why just pick on the snowmobilers? Why not ban all the other more polluting and loud vehicles that are on the same roads in the Summer?

As for accidents, what about skiers and hikers falling into hot vernal pools? I just don't see where snowmobiling families are worse than any other humans.

[Thor_MN]

13. I wasn't aware the sledheads were forced to stay "on the same roads"

If they are required to stay on roads and obey the speed limits and other laws that apply to other vehicles, then by all means they should be allowed.

Then again - if they are not - all arguements including "on the same roads" fall flat. I don't imagine too many of those Harley's are into highmarking.

[LostInTheMaise]

14. The law says they stay on the road

Most if not all families out to see the park stay on the road.

Any moron on a sled, truck or ski can break the law. This bigoted ban against snowmobiles only is almost as bad as putting the different folks in the back of the bus.

[Thor_MN]

20. I would have no objections to on-road use

It's the off-road use of motor vehicles that I object to and in my opinion gets snow mobiles and ATVs banned.

[bvar22]

15. Great News.

I love Yellowstone, and plan to see it again before the eruption.

NOW, if I could eliminate those incredibly irritating jetskis from my river... Sunday mornings are beautiful until they show up.

[LostInTheMaise]

16. Your river?

Modern jetskis are very clean and qiet. Your river> Indeed.

[Thor_MN]

19. Maybe a hearing check is in order...

Just because newer models are quieter than older models does not mean:

Older models are no longer used
That newer models are quiet.

[LostInTheMaise]

28. Pre EPA cars and other vehicles are STILL allowed on the byways

Where is your outcry against them? Selective discrimination against snowmobilers?

[Thor_MN]

32. And those vehicles STILL aren't two cycle oil burners

[bvar22]

33. Yes, my river.

Here's my Certificate of Adoption


Feel free to visit and enjoy; but if you pollute, abuse, don't clean up after yourself, are rude, intrusive, or are disrespectful of the rights of others you will be asked to leave.

[wuushew]

17. Strong correlation between snowmobiles and voting patterns

[LostInTheMaise]

29. Yep and there are over 5 million snowmobilers

Why some here want to despise them while the EPA has cleaned up their sleds is beyond me. Every single snowmobiler I know is pissed off at the bogus attacks aimed at them and most say they will vote for those that suppory their recreation.

The EPA fixed the noise and pollution problem so it's time to stop hating them.

[DiverDave]

30. They are gone from the park.

So get over it.
The Park sevice doesnt have a mandate to see that people make money.
They are there for the park.
Go ride your "silent" machine somewhere else.
So who will YOU vote for?

[LostInTheMaise]

34. Get over it?

Not hardly. Families are there to see the park...not to make money.

Snowcoaches are dirtier, louder and more smelly than new and clean snowmobiles.

Go dictate unjust, uncivil and hateful rules somewhere else.

[DiverDave]

35. Jeez,

I don't think this is the place for you.
And yeah, GET OVER IT!.
Most people don't like them in the park.
Or, do you think the minority should dictate to the majority?

[bleedingheart]

18. I like my nature experience to be natural

not noisy and no I do not believe that new snowmobiles are quieter...If they are quiet enough to sneak up on me without me knowing then I would say that is quiet...but something that is just 5 decibels less noisy isn't quiet.

There is nothing better than walking through the quiet woods.

[HawkerTyphoon]

21. "Picking on snowmobilers"

Up until now 99.9% of the snowmobiles were 2-cycle engines with no mufflers. They mix their oil in with the gas and burn oil as part of their normal operation. The snowmobile clubs, dealers and manufacturers fought any change, citing the costs of conversion. The Park Service has wanted to ban 2-cycle snowmobiles for many years, but have been tied up in court, wasting millions of taxpayer dollars in lawsuits brought by the snowmobile associations.

One 2-cycle snowmobile causes more pollution and noise than 100 cars, not to mention the fact that most cars carry more than one person into the park, and most snowmobiles have only one passenger. The result is more like 300 times the pollution and noise per visitor.

The newer 4-cycle snowmobiles do not mix oil in the gas, so they pollute about the same as a car. They have mufflers and therefore are quieter. The Park service has always said that 4-cycle snowmobiles are OK, they are not "picking on snowmobilers." Most snowmobilers want to continue to come into the park with their loud, smokey 2-cycle snowmobiles.

Harleys: Most Harleys have some sort of baffles or mufflers that help reduce the engine noise. They also have much larger pistons and lower engine speeds. The noise they make is no where near as loud or piercing as snowmobiles. They produce less visible smoke. They must not mix oil in the gas (?), or they would be just as smokey. I have worked in the park for 10 summers and the Harleys come in droves the week before and after the annual Sturgis, SD rally. They are loud, but not as irritating or smokey as 2-cycle snowmobiles.

Inside Yellowstone National Park ALL vehicles must stay on the roads. There is no off road travel by any motor vehicle. Outside the park, on Forest Service land, there are hundreds of miles of snowmobile trails.

"High siding" where you have a contest to see who can climb the highest up a steep hill with out turning over or "chickening out" and hazing bison are just two of the many things that no one but snowmobilers do in the park. Also, the speed limit in the park is 45, sometimes less. Snowmobiles are capable of very high speeds, and a very large % of them do not obey the speed limit, pass on hills/curves, ignore stop signs, drive on the wrong side of the road, etc. As a group, they are known by the rangers to be more likely to beak the traffic laws than the average visitor.

Pick on them? No. Profiling, maybe.

[havocmom]

31. Great info, HawkerTyphoon

And welcome to DU :toast: Looking forward to seeing you 'round here.

A personal observation on the new snowmobiles: cleaner and quieter are relative terms. The new ones may indeed be cleaner and quieter than the 2 stroke models, but a brand new one went by me and the noise was deafening. The fumes darn near knocked me over. They still suck.

That said, let me tell those who don't know me, I live in Montana. I know what an obstacle snow can be. I think snowmobiles are great for folks who are faced with daunting drifts and no cleared roads. They are great to help ranchers get out and tend stock when the snow is bad. In other words, they are a great tool that have their time and place.

Unfortunately, many recreational users just don't get the time and place thing. The high marking you mentioned goes on and it puts search and rescue personnel at risk when hot dog snowmobile jockeys shake tons of snow down off steep hillsides. I hear some (if not all) have transponders on them. Would that be necessary if the infernal things weren't often used ill-advisedly?