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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:21 PM
Original message
Female soldiers raise alarm on sexual assaults
Source: Associated Press

Female soldiers raise alarm on sexual assaults
Pentagon responses include new trauma ward, prevention strategy
By Kimberly Hefling

YORK, Pa. - It took Diane Pickel Plappert six months to tell a counselor that she had been raped while on duty in Iraq. While time passed, the former Navy nurse disconnected from her children and her life slowly unraveled.

Carolyn Schapper says she was harassed in Iraq by a fellow Army National Guard soldier to the extent that she began changing clothes in the shower for fear he'd barge into her room unannounced as he already had on several occasions.

Even as women distinguish themselves in battle alongside men, they're fighting off sexual assault and harassment. It's not a new consequence of war. But the sheer number of women serving today more than 190,000 so far in Iraq and Afghanistan is forcing the military and Department of Veterans Affairs to more aggressively address it.

The data that exists incomplete and not up-to-date offers no proof that women in the war zones are more vulnerable to sexual assault than other female service members, or American women in general. But in an era when the military relies on women for invaluable and difficult front-line duties, the threat to their morale, performance and long-term well-being is starkly clear.

Of the women veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan who have walked into a VA facility, 15 percent have screened positive for military sexual trauma, The Associated Press has learned. That means they indicated that while on active duty they were sexually assaulted, raped, or were sexually harassed, receiving repeated unsolicited verbal or physical contact of a sexual nature.


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25784465
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hasn't this been known for years?
I recall reading maybe five years ago about female soldiers having dehydration problems (maybe even some deaths.) They wouldn't drink any fluids after noon to avoid having to go to the latrine at night where they would be pounced upon.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, and there were also stories about soldiers being raped within hours of being in country. nt
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, several deaths of this nature have come to pass
Dehydration is an excruciating way to go too. But the rapes are so widespread, the women risk it anyway.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. That's right. This is yet ANOTHER case of selective memory. n/t
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Actually, no such deaths have occurred.
The "dehydration" claim is a myth. It was a story former Abu Ghraib commander Janice Karpinski pushed to embarass the military in retaliation for her ousting, but it's completely unsupported by facts.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. I'd like to see where these deaths at Camp Victory are debunked.
That would be a better outcome. Do you have a source?
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. Um, no they aren't
The rapes aren't widespread at all. From the article posted in the OP:

"The data that exists offers no proof that women in the war zones are more vulnerable to sexual assault than other female service members, or American women in general."
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Actually, this is a myth.
Not saying rape in the military isn't a problem, but the "death by dehydration" story is not true. People analyzed it and went through every female casualty in Iraq during the specified period: none of them died from dehydration or anything similar.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. I wonder if there is any connection with the fact that recruiting standards have been lowered?
About 17% of the first-time recruits, or about 13,600, were accepted under waivers for various medical, moral or criminal problems, including misdemeanor arrests or drunk driving. That is a slight increase from last year, the Army said.

Of those accepted under waivers, more than half were for "moral" reasons, mostly misdemeanor arrests. Thirty-eight percent were for medical reasons and 7% were drug and alcohol problems, including those who may have failed a drug test or acknowledged they had used drugs.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-09-army...
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. No, problems were there before lowering recruiting standards ...
Iraqi newspaper accuses U.S. soldiers of raping Iraqi girls

11 Jun 2003
khilafah.com

Newspaper trades charges with coalition over:
Alleged rape of two Iraqi girls

An Iraqi newspaper run by Sunni Muslims traded charges Monday with the US-led occupation authority over the alleged rape of two Iraqi girls by US soldiers, a claim denied by the coalition.

According to the daily As-Saah, the girls, aged 14 and 15, were talking to American soldiers in Suwaira, 180 kilometers (115 miles) south of Baghdad, on Friday when the soldiers suggested they accompany them to their camp to take pictures but then collectively raped the pair.

This allegation is "absolutely false," the US Central Command said in a statement.

"We take any claim of this nature extremely seriously, have looked into the allegations and found nothing whatsoever to substantiate the accusations -- including checking local hospital records," it said.

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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. One of them was me (being honest)i
I came in with a moral waiver because of a marijuana paraphenia a crumbled up piece of tinfoil with resin in 2001 no trouble since then with the exception of a minor possession with tobacco products when I was 17.I Joined in October in 2005 with regardless of how you looked at it everyone who joined after 2003 joined in a time of everyone go to war. I know people with at the most 3 going on 4 times. I went there one time came back with alcohol and marijuana addiction, the alcohol was the bad one I had to stop, the environment to stay sober is terrible. It is everywhere especially on weekends. I was depressed when I came back and still am today but without treatment I'm still managing my life. Althe way up until Jan of this year I never got into any trouble but when my wife had to move back home because her family lives there and my rent was too high compared to the bills I was in negative just trying to pay the rent everything and then after that with the pressure and then I had a positive UA. I was not the worst but I was one of the rising I got promoted well. There are really positive individuals that were leaders over me that I have great respect for, some were alright, and others turn your back on you when you work hard for them. As a battallion or even as a brigade we all came back in a close with our sister unit 20 days before us there was all sorts of caseofassault, one rape case that I'm aware of, destruction of property, I believe the battalion or the brigarde had the highest percentage of Alcohol related Instances(which covers most of the fighting, and other stuff) And there are other drugs too, but I'm not saying anything bad about US Soldiers that all that stuff is there and some people adapt better to being deployed and coming back while others stress hard, some get help before it becomes a personal problem and others don't. I have made good friends in the Army not like people in the outside world, the people there look out for you and have a good time with you. I have good friends everywhere but some of the best friends I have were in the Army.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. A belated welcome to DU, Jon.
I'm glad you're back. :)
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is no surprise at all.
Rape has always been a part of war. When you have thousands of testosterone driven, young warriors facing death every day they need that sexual outlet. The camp follower or comfort woman has been around since the beginning of warfare itself. And if there were none, the conquered were the victims. The problem over there I think, is the lack of prostitutes in the Muslim culture. These guys have nowhere to go to release that tension and they prey on their own. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the so-called leaders set it up this way.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. You nailed it, MrSlayer.
I have never had a problem before with having women serve in the military. I believe that they can be as good as soldiers as men can. And, even if they aren't "supposed" to be on the front lines, there are lots of jobs they can do. And, if needed pick up a rifle and get down to business.

BUT, the price seems WAY too high for these women. They are making the same sacrifices as the male servicemen for our country but they have to live in fear of THE ENEMY and THEIR COMRADES IN ARMS. Now, that is fucked up.

How does the Israeli military deal with this? They've had women in their ranks since they started their independence struggle.

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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. rape is an act of power, not sex
most men will not rape no matter how stressed out they are
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. But you must admit it is very common in warfare.
Both as a terror tool and just to do it. War tends to make people do a lot of shit they would never normally do. It changes your mentality. Sometimes it is just to get off. Once you're able to kill indiscriminately, without prejudice or remorse, you're capable of all kinds of things.
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Truth4Justice Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Thanks for posting that. Many women seem to think men are potential rapists and that just isnt true.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. actually many men seem to think that too eom
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. These women should shoot their attackers in the face repeatedly
so they can release the tension built up by being assaulted by comrades. This would be "comforting" to all the other women. And shooting rapists in the face should not be considered misconduct- its just the way women are.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I concur.
I wonder why that doesn't happen as often as the rapes themselves. These women are all trained in hand to hand and any Marine is supposed to be able to kill with their bare hands before they leave the Island. If you're ganged there isn't much you can do but in one on one situations you would think there would be at least a few guys lacking a penis or an eye or something after it was over.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. One on one a trained man is still stronger than most trained women
but that doesn't explain why they don't go after them with a weapon.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. The female killer of a rapist
would have to prove that she was in danger. To a court-martial panel. Of rape-deniers.

The rapist does not need to fear prosecution.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. How? All of the Rapes of US Army women have been in the Barracks.
In such situation almost everyone has turned in their weapon and ammunition. I do NOT hear of such attacks outside the Green Zone of other "safe areas" and that being the case I fully expect the Military to fall back on SOP, which is to secure all weapon in a Armory.

Remember these women are in a Combat Zone, but technically in a "safe area" of that Combat zone, where the use of any weapon is not needed (The natives are kept outside the "Safe Areas" and the attacks are mortar rounds not direct hostile fire). In such situation I fully believe most of the people in the "Safe Zone" do NOT have access to a Weapon, except if on the way outside the "Safe Zone". The attacks I hear about are in the "Safe Zones" not outside where the women are armed.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. What the HELL are you talking about, do some research before you make claims
Yes men need sex, as do women, but RAPE rarely (if ever) has anything to do with rape except as the instrument of assault. This includes Rapes in the time of war, were just like in Civilian life the men rarely if ever ejaculate, most rapes is penetrate only (and if the man is castrated or otherwise incapable of penetrating with his penis, the rapist will do the penetration with something, anything else).

Rape is NOT done for sexual pleasure, it is done to attack women, or a particular woman. Rape is a way for the attacker to do something to a woman, something to make her look weak and unimportant to the attacker. Studies have shown this, having a sexual release does NOT reduce rape. In ancient times (And more recent times unofficially) to rape the women of the side you defeated was to show your superiority over them and their men. Rape was the use of sex to attack NOT for sexual satisfaction or even to gt the woman pregnant (Seduction is much more important when it comes to sex).

I have NOT heard of a Lack of prostitute in Iraq. Now the US Military is afraid of prostitutes in the areas where US troops are barracked for fear that the whores will bring in explosives into the barracks of the men. As to going into a Whore house outside the Green Zone, the men have that option, but in such a house, there is a good chance they will lose all of their equipment, which can cost more than what soldier earns in a month. If the men lose their equipment, other then in combat, they have to pay the army for the cost of that equipment.

Anyway, prostitution and rape have always been separate issues, some men do rape whores, but these are the same men who rape any women given a chance. My point is Rape is NOT the product of the denial of sex, if that was the case when these guys come home no woman would be safe. Men will seek sexual relief, but in ways they find satisfying, that the best way is with a partner who enjoy having sex with them. In rape that mutual enjoyment is missing, and the men who rape want it missing. Rape is NOT a man looking for sex, Rape is where someone attacking another using sex as the weapon.

I have read enough to see the fallacy that a lot of men have, that Rape is a product of men not having sex. As one old Sargent told me after two weeks in the field, he was getting horny, and if he did not get any that weekend from his wife, he would have to jerk off (Which is how most men "relieve" that tension and why Playboy and other "Men" magazines are popular on Military bases). Rape is not an option for most men, for the pleasure of a willing partner is NOT THERE. Even whores make an effort to sound like they can't wait to have their John's dick in them, because they know this is what most men want to hear during sex.

One last point, men can live without sex, it has been done. Rape is rarely viewed as a satisfactory solution (And those Societies where Rape is "permitted" you quickly find out "Rape" in such societies is NOT what we call "Rape" but a form of courtship with both parties willing participates, while called rape is something else, Rape as that term is used in the West, is also forbidden in those societies).

No, the rape of these women is NOT because the men have no access for their sexual desires, the rapes are assaults on these women when the men doing the rape believe they can get away with it. This is what the studies I have read all show, that rape is NOT for sex, but the use of Sex to attack women.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. thanks for clearing that up
they do it because they can get away with it.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Maybe that's what the research says, but the research isn't done in a combat zone with a bunch of
horny troopers who are under stress that we civilians aren't under. As a matter of fact, I doubt that there's much research done at all on rape under those cirmcumstances because that's not something the military wants to admit is happening. Plus, having all these U.S. military women in combat zones and in close contact with the men is a recent phenomenon.

Just sayin'


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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Women in the Military RECENT!!!! You do NOT know your history
Prior to about the 1880s every country in the world ALWAYS had women in their military. These were the "Washer Women" who are reported from the time of Crusades (c1000 AD) till the 1880s. As to the Crusades, washer women were an old institution within BOTH Christian and Moslem armies (And existed in Byzantine Armies that operated at that time period). Arabs Armies tend to copy Byzantine Army formations Through Arabs units tended to be lighter armed and more horse and Camels). Byzantine Armies had been reformed just before the Arab Conquest from the remains of the last of the Roman Legions. Thus when these washer women first appeared in Armies is unknown, they may have existed in the days of the Roman legions but unreported. Washer Women being unreported seems to be typical, in the Militia Act of 1794, the Militia of the US was given a set formation, including how many men to a Company, but how many Platoon to a Company is silent and the fact that Traditional Platoons of the 1700s were made up of 20 men under a Sargent and those 20 men were assigned a Washer Women (The washer Woman tended to be the Wife of the Sergeant, but this was NOT required). Notice these women were NOT mentioned in the 1794 Militia Act, the various acts setting up how the US Army was to be formed. Washer Women were NOT even mentioned in the Civil War (Through if wounded, what they received as compensation was set by the same statute that set the compensation for the men). The reason washer Women were NOT mentioned was everyone knew they existed and by tradition every 20 men had to have one.

The tradition of Washer Women was so strong that Congress had to pass a Statute in the 1880s outlawing Washer Women when it was decided that the jobs such washer women were doing (Other then washing clothes which had been just one of they many duties) had to be done by people who had gone to school for such duties, and congress did NOT want to pay women to go to schools.

One of my favorite facts about the Crusades was after a battle there was always talk about exchanging prisoners. The first prisoners to be exchanged were always the Washer Women, no matter which side had "won". So you how DEEP washer women were in both armies by that time, and the tradition INCREASED as time went on.

Another story of the Washer Women was the shipment of an British Regiment to India in the 1850s. The ship the Regiment as on started to sink. It was discovered that all by a handful of the life boats were unsafe (i.e. only a handful of boats could take ANY of the members of the Regiment). The Crew of the Ship followed the tradition of the Sea of that time, claimed the boats for themselves and any other passengers who could fit on (The Crew First Rule). IT was the Lt-Colonel of the Regiment that told his men to stand fast and permit the women and children on the boats first (This is the first time "Women and Children" is heard on any sinking ship). The Officers and Men held their ranks tell the the Women and Children (Mostly the Washer Women and their Children plus some officers wives and children) were loaded on the life rafts that were usable. The Officers and Men of the Ship went down with the Ship, and the "tradition" of "Women and Children" First was started.
For more details read about the 1852 Sinking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Birkenhead_ (1845)

Anyway, after the 1880s, the Sergeants wives still were on the base and did most of what the Washer women had done previously. The only change was they no longer went to war with the men of their Platoon. This official period of no women in the Army lasted till WWII when the "Women Army Auxiliary" (WAC)s ere formed. The WACS (and the female pilots who flew planes, mostly from the US to either Britain of the Far East) were suppose to NOT carry weapon (But many were in France in 1944 and given the possibility of German counter attacks many were given weapon training in 1944 and 1945). Women have been in the US Army ever since. The number of Women in Army actually Jumped in the 1970s where do to the ending of the Draft the Army had a problem getting recruits (Do to the fear of integration, when Congress reformed the US Military in 1948, restrictions as to women and other minutes i.e. blacks etc) as to combat roles were listed for the US Navy (Including the Marines) and the then new US Air Force, but no restrictions were put women and Combat Roles in the US Army. Prior to the 1970s the Army restricted women out of Combat Roles by Regulation, but jumped at the lack of legal constraints in the 1970s.

The lack of legal Constricts as to women for the Army, while the Navy and Air Force had clear restrictions was do to the fact that same act not only formed the US Air Force but also better integrated the National Guard in with the Army. It was clear that Congress could pass clear restrictions as to the Navy and Air Force (And even the Regular Army) but when it came to the National Guard, the States had rights, including the right to select the officers. Technically National Guard Officers received two commission one from their state the other from Congress. Generally there is no problem with this dual appointment system, but Congress was worried that a State may appoint a black to head an all-white unit and if Congress refused to accept that commission, that would lead to a Court Case where the Supreme Court may find the Dual commissioning system violates the US Constitution (Which reserves the right to appoint officers of the Militia to the States NOT congress). Thus Congress decided the best way to avoid this issue is to leave it up to the Army itself to use its regulatory powers to prevent this from happening. By the 1970s no one was worried about a black being appointed an officers of an all -white unit any more, but the lack of statutory restriction was jumped at by the Army. This was the law from 1948 till the early 1990s when Congress decided to open up the Air Force and Navy to the same lack of statutory restriction as the Army has had since 1948.

My point is that women have served in the US Army since the founding of this country in 1607 till the 1880s, and again from WWII till present (Thus women were NOT in the Army for only a roughly 60 years period out of the last 400 years of the existence of the Army in this country, i.e. since the settlement of Jamestown). Thus your comment as to women bring in the military a "Recent Phenomenon" is just plain wrong, and the military did address this for centuries, basically by making rape a capital offense AND making the men of the unit the women belong to, responsible for her protection, as they are responsible for the protection of each other.

As to such rapes, I paraphrase Patton from WWII, he made a comment about rape by US Soldiers and expected such rapes to occur AND WANTED THEM REPORTED TO HIM SO HE COULD HANG THE RAPISTS. He knew, as most people know, it is the "freedom" to do want you want to that lead to the Rape. Rape does NOT occur because men need and want sex, rape occurs when a man, who wants to attack a woman, can do so. In Iraq I notice almost no cases of Rape of Civilians are being reported (They was one bad case where a soldier and his buddies raped a teen age Iraqi, but again it was more to show her "We can rape her" then any desire for Sex). The rape cases involve women in the Green Zone and other "safe" areas who are working with men in non-combat roles.

Even today, Women can NOT serve in the any Combat unit i.e. the Infantry, Artillery or Tank Units. Women can serve in Combat Support units like Combat Engineer, Military Police and other Maintenance units. Most women serve in other support units where the men who commit the rapes against them are also NOT going into combat. Many of the raped women are in medical units and being raped by fellow medical personnel. Both see the results of Combat, but no where near the level of Combat of the Combat units. This may be the results that the Combat units have no women to rape, but the more logically explanation is that the rapists in the non-combat units see Iraq as an opportunity.

No, the fact these rapes are occurring when women are NOT allowed in Combat units implies it is NOT Combat that is causing the Rapes, but that being in Iraq the Rapists believe they can get away with it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Very well done.
We really are the United States of Amnesia.

And, a similar argument can be made for a gay subculture in any military back to time immemorial so those rightwing idiots and their lefter appeasers should just get an education or get out of government.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. thank you!!!
some statements nearly make my head explode.

"The problem is they don't have access to prostitutes."

WTF. The problem is that men are raised to believe they are ENTITLED to have access to women's bodies on demand - and that the penis is viewed as a weapon to assert male supremacy.

Some men move beyond that viewpoint, and thank you if you are in that group. The others think it's a "problem" when vaginas aren't available for purchase, and blame male supremacy and violence against women as a "natural" reaction to this "problem."
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. There are prostitutes in the Muslim culture.
Edited on Fri Jul-25-08 12:54 AM by onager
Or at least, there sure are in Muslim countries. I've lived in two of them: Saudi Arabia for 2 years, and I'm currently on my third year of living/working in Egypt.

These places don't have the rip-roaring red-light districts or sex clubs I have...er...observed in Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, etc. But hookers are certainly available and everybody knows it.

The prostitutes I saw in Saudi Arabia seemed to be mainly women fleeing from the wars in Eritrea/Ethiopia/Sudan (right across the Red Sea. I lived in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, the big West Coast seaport). It was horribly sad to see them, and usually their kids along with them.

Here in Alexandria, Egypt, I have been approached downtown by young hookers very modestly dressed in the long, neck-to-ankle gellibyah, and wearing the hijab--headscarf.

Whenever my Egyptian driver sees a woman wearing Western-style clothes, he will smirk and announce that she is "doing some business." Meaning, she's a prostitute. The women he's smirking about are often, quite obviously, just tourists or stylishly dressed young women.

When I told him I had been approached by hookers wearing headscarves, he got very indignant and said they were probably not Muslims, but infidels who were trying to make Muslim women look bad.

:rofl:

For the record, Alexandria, Egypt had a booming red-light district in the early 20th century. At that time, the city still had large foreign populations of Greeks, Italians, French and the British colonial overlords.

According to eyewitnesses--one of them being the famous writer E.M. Forster, who worked in Alexandria during WWI--every night the hookers congregated on the aptly-named Rue des Soueres: the "Street of the Sisters," named for an old convent nearby.

Not all the hookers were "sisters." By tradition, female prostitues worked one side of the street and male prostitutes worked the other. Alexandria's unofficial poet laureate Constantine Cavafy wrote some very explicit poems about picking up young men in the city. One of his poems describes a young man in Alexandria selling himself whenever he wants to buy a new shirt.

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fbahrami Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. What else would you expect?
You're there to kill and destroy (Tell me that is not a soldier's job). Rape and pillage goes hand in hand with that. Do you expect the killers to be gentlemen off the job? Think.
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Ben777 Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I served in the Marine Corps,
raping and pillaging were most definitely NOT part of my job or any other serviceman's.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Welcome to DU, Ben. We try not to rape or pillage here either.
:)
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