"This fight is not over." ACLU will challenge FISA update in court

[BlueJessamine]

Source: Raw Story

As the Senate voted to endorse a Bush-administration backed plan to expand its surveillance authority and grant retroactive legal immunity to telecommunications companies that facilitated warrantless wiretapping, the American Civil Liberties Union unveiled plans to challenge the new law in court.

“This fight is not over. We intend to challenge this bill as soon as President Bush signs it into law,” said Jameel Jaffer, Director of the ACLU National Security Project, in a statement provided to RAW STORY as the Senate was voting. “The bill allows the warrantless and dragnet surveillance of Americans’ international telephone and email communications. It plainly violates the Fourth Amendment.”

After defeating three attempts to improve the update to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the Senate was expected to President Bush a FISA update Wednesday. Senators began voting around 2:15 p.m.

For two and a half years, Congress has been deliberating over how to update FISA, which became law in 1978, to account for technological advances in the last three decades. Critics say President Bush simply ignored the law in ordering the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans' conversations with people abroad without first getting warrants from a secret FISA court.



Read more: http://rawstory.com/news/2008/ACLU_will_challenge_FISA_update_in_0709.html

[Dogtown]

1. K&R n/t

[quidam56]

40. If you aren't a bitter American yet, what are you waiting for ?

http://www.wisecountyissues.com

[tridim]

2. Bush's response: Tap the fuck out of the ACLU. nt

[LuckyTheDog]

3. Good

I am sure that a LOT of folks in Congress would love to see the courts bail them out on this one.

[robinlynne]

6. what do you mean? They could have voted no.

[LuckyTheDog]

12. They probably fear blowback from the right

I suspect many who voted yes did so for that reason.

[humbled_opinion]

35. OMG Appologist?

They need to grow a set period. Democrats refuse to stand on their convictions at the detriment of American civil liberties way to go if our team wont even do it...Next Obama will morph into Bush lite... I am through with all this nonsense time to look for a new country.

[Q3JR4]

57. ....

I agree.

Q3JR4.

[LuckyTheDog]

84. Two words

Grow up.

[alllyingwhores]

106. TWO MORE WORDS "FUCK THEM"

It's not about blow back it's about being bought and paid for by the telecom and other related lobbiest...there, now we're all grown up.

[bahrbearian]

110. Lame,!!

[frogcycle]

123. please do (look for a new country)

I am not at all happy about this vote, nor the various spurious reasons given for supporting it.
I look forward to the day when we will have somehow cleaned house, put the villains in jail where they belong, and resurrect the Great Experiment. As has been said, one can love America while despising the actions of its (current) government. That does not call for looking elsewhere, but, rather, rescuing her.

[lark]

137. I know how you feel

I've been wanting to get the pluck out of here since 2000 when our country and constitution was hijacked by the neo-cons. I have an 84 year old mom and kids in college so feel compelled to stay for my family at this time. So, in the meantime, I, like so many others on this board, stay and try to do my part to improve our situation. If you too are spouting off in anger, but in the end staying put, I hope you will vote for the better of the 2 candidates, even though he's proving to be a very flawed person with a limited set of principals that he's willing to stand by. It's just so sad that honoring our constitution isn't worthwhile to so many spineless Dems. They make me sick!

[dkofos]

51. Then they don't deserve their positions as REPRESENTATIVES.

[Popol Vuh]

55. I agree

However, as the old adage goes, we deserve the government we choose. We never give the time of day to candidates ignored or slandered by the so-called main stream media. I can remember (here in California) when the Repubs succeeded in recalling Governor Davis, I didn't vote for any of the candidates the media took serious. LMAO, I voted for Gary Coleman. I swear to GAWD I sure did and I bet he would have been better than the so-called serious candidates.


:evilgrin:

[paparush]

97. OH..they're representing all right...their just not representing you and I.

[bjobotts]

112. Wrong. They get blowback from the right anyway. There was no downside in opposing this bill.

[bjobotts]

113. The blowback is "See they agree with us and will come around on Iraq also."

[bjobotts]

114. In '06 the dems stood firm against Bush policies and spying and won overwhelingly.

[John Q. Citizen]

126. Yes, they act from fear. It makes them look so weak.

[NorthCarolina]

129. No, the DLC and Blue Dogs ARE the right, every bit as much as the GOP

they didn't fear GOP "blowback", rather they ideologically support this legislation to the same degree that their GOP counterparts do. DLC and Blue Dogs ARE the reason Dems continually scratch their heads wondering why this Democratic Led Congress repeatedly caves to the GOP. The fact is they are not "caving", rather they are "complicit".

[still_one]

4. I support them, but am not optomistic /nt

[Jack Rabbit]

5. Down with tyranny!!

Liberty Leading the People by Eugène Delacroix
from Mount Holyoke College

[dixiegrrrrl]

91. See? going braless wasn't just a 70's thing.

'Cept now if I went bra-less, it would be a threat.

"Gimme my rights and you won't have to look at these"

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Time to send my Obama donations to the ACLU to fight FISA.

[Patchuli]

17. Become a Guardian of Liberty

with a small monthly donation. I've cut my other donations down to a trickle but the ACLU must keep going! It's all of our rights at stake!

[Pastiche423]

18. That is where my donations are going

All of my presidential campaign donations will go to the UCLA and to the 28(?) Dems that voted NAY.

Not a cent will go to Obama. Maybe the people he is courting now will fund his anti-election reform campaign.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. We gots played like a cheap fiddle...again.

[Pastiche423]

29. While I did not support Obama during the primary

I did vote for the lesser of two evils in my state's primary. Something kept niggling at me that something was just not right w/him. I had my doubts then and today my doubts were confirmed.

I am joining the Apathetic Party.

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. He had better study up on the Gingrich-Clinton years.

Because it's going to be like that, only worse. We just get to sit back and watch him get pilloried.

[Pastiche423]

45. He'll deserve to be pilloried

[lame54]

103. Go Bruins

[Pastiche423]

105. i don't get it

[The Backlash Cometh]

128. dyslexia is a itchb

[DUlover2909]

122. UCLA will appreciate it! hehe

[Jefferson23]

60. Glad I am not the only one doing that. I am tired of this, its sickening.

[clear eye]

66. Just Make Sure You Put "For FISA Suit" in the Memo Line,

because the ACLU also has a track record of bringing suits to protect corporate campaign donations as "protected speech" against campaign finance reform efforts, which is what made the Telecoms influential enough to get all these votes in the first place.

[The Backlash Cometh]

69. Will they honor the request, you think?

[clear eye]

74. Your guess as good as mine

Call 'em.

[lame54]

104. good point thanks

[dreyer]

73. Exactly

The house and senate (although I will always of course support/vote democrats over repukes) just lost it over this one, my money is going to the fighters for the rule of law and justice, how could congress let us down like this? Looks like ACLU knows what freedom and our Constitution mean, and know how to fight for it, they should get the donations.

[emilyg]

82. You bet.

[lame54]

102. that's a great Idea

[alllyingwhores]

107. No shit--Obama voted for the bill!!!

[indepat]

8. Passage would invalidate imo the country ballad commencing with "I'm proud to be an American where

at least I know I'm free" or lyrics to the effect. :cry: :D

[johnlal]

9. Good for the ACLU

As much as the courts like to support Bush, this bill threatens to limit the Court's authority. The courts usually will protect their turf when it comes to a power grab from the other branches.

[wryter2000]

10. I'm glad I give them money

I wish I had the few bucks I gave Obama back now so I could give it to the ACLU.

[AlbertCat]

61. Write Obama and ask for it back....

....and tell him where you plan to send it and why.

[frog92969]

87. That's exactly what I did

ACLU gets more of my money now.

[bahrbearian]

111. I just sent them $100

I've only donated to Kuchinich, Dean,and the ACLU, I feel so good.

[NJCher]

11. If this is the case

The ACLU gets all money I'd earmarked for donations. And I will pester my friends for theirs, too.



Cher

[jgraz]

13. Yep, this month's Obama donation is going to the ACLU.

:patriot:

[renate]

54. excellent idea

And another excellent idea might be to drop the Obama campaign a note telling them so.

I feel pretty embarrassed about the first name in my sig right now... still proud of the second one, though!

[Taverner]

14. Donate to the ACLU now

I am!

[MindPilot]

16. And I suggest making sure the ACLU knows where that money came from. n/t

[Erebus67]

31. And letting Obama know where it went.

Perhaps sending letters to his campaign asking for prior donations back so they can be sent to the ACLU. I'm sure you will never get them back, but enough letters might get his attention.

I can dream can't I?

[clear eye]

70. Please, everyone, be aware that the ACLU

has a track record of bringing suits to protect corporate campaign donations as "protected speech" against campaign finance reform efforts, which is what made the Telecoms influential enough to get all these votes in the first place, so WRITE "FOR FISA SUIT" IN THE MEMO LINE.

[Taverner]

76. No - the ACLU will bring suits to ANYTHING that goes against the 1st ammendment

Corporations are protected by this amendment because of corporate citizenship. Love it or hate it, that is the law. If you don't like it, change the law.

But the ACLU is the only 1st Amendment Absolutist organization.

That I can believe in. If you lose your voice, you lose everything.

[clear eye]

80. Oy. It's NOT the Law...

It's a very controversial interpretation of the law. Thom Hartmann wrote a whole book on it and related issues called "Unequal Protection", there is a website with a lot of good info: , but mainly, there never was a law passed declaring that corporations have the rights of people, only some Supreme Court rulings which said this or that behavior, mostly campaign donations, are protected speech. Most informed people who are not corporatists disagree, and the ACLU continues to take a lot of heat by strong defenders of the 1st amendment on this.

[frog92969]

88. Wether or not corps are "persons"

money is NOT speech, that's sick.

[Maat]

93. It IS the law.

Court decisions establish precedent, and are the law as much as any enacted statute.

While it is true that the original ruling was dicta (not in the binding part of the decision), the principle has since been in other rulings (thus, it is case precedent, and that is the law).

The only way to change this situation is either through the legislative process or through a decision by the High Court that overturns the precedent.

That having been said, I'm very proud of being a member of the ACLU, and a donor to the Center for Constitutional Rights.

Maat, J.D.

[bertman]

96. Thanks for the link, clear eye. I'll check it out.

I'm a supporter and big fan of the ACLU but I have to say this corporation masquerading as a person is a crock of bull hockey.

Howard Zinn describes the genesis of that screwed up (but brilliant, if you're a corporatist) idea.

[Taverner]

135. I agree it is hockey of the bovine sort

But it is law by precedent. Change the law, I hope we can. But until then, taking the right of speech away from a corporation is tantamount to taking the right of speech away from an individual.

[fascisthunter]

15. This is Where My Energies will Go

as well as my money. We are on our own.

[katty]

21. mine too-Obama can call his Wall St bankers for more $

[Maureen1322]

33. Me too. Obama can have my vote, the ACLU will get my money.

It won't be much, but it's going to the ACLU.

[katty]

20. ACLU-member and sending $ for this fight...cheney happy today

poppin' champagne in WH - their great work is done-and our cowardly, lame Dem leadership helped them at every turn.

[kirby]

22. List of 21 Democrats who voted FOR FISA!

Here are the Dems who voted FOR FISA! SHAME ON THEM!!!!

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)

and 'Independent Democrat'

Lieberman (ID-CT)

[katty]

23. it's sickening

[rateyes]

25. Almost makes me wish I had supported Senator Clinton. nt

[Maureen1322]

32. self delete

[TechBear_Seattle]

27. Obama is on the list... for shame, indeed! n/t

[humbled_opinion]

37. I said it yesterday....n/t

[hisownpetard]

43. Sheldon Whitehouse? Damn. I had my eye on him as an upcoming Dem star.

Guess he was just a comet, flashing by on its way down.

[balantz]

62. Do you know if Kennedy was there to vote? n/t

[barbtries]

72. DAMN!

i really liked whitehouse. damn.

edited to make that past tense.

[bread_and_roses]

90. That mostly looks like one of those "which one doesn't fit" tests....is that really the list

he wants to be on? It sure isn't the one I want to see him on.

[dixiegrrrrl]

94. Whitehouse ????????????????????????

[Autumn]

99. I knew before I looked at that list that

the worthless Salazar from my state would be on it.:banghead:

[PADemD]

101. Whitehouse? I'm shocked!

[OnyxCollie]

109. So glad you're feeling better,

Sen. Johnson.:eyes:

As for Whitehouse, we would have been better off if Lincoln Chafee hadn't lost.

[bdamomma]

130. Shocking that Senator Whitehouse is on that list, what was

he thinking, I fired off a e-mail to him too.

[Pacifist Patriot]

134. OMG! Nelson from Florida is on the list? Color me shocked

NOT

[rateyes]

24. Good. Let's help them fight.

[kirby]

26. I just joined the ACLU n/t

[bluesmail]

28. I just donated another $50.00. Thanks ACLU

[desktop]

30. Not likely this rightwing supreme court would overturn it

Maybe a lower court would, but eventually it would end up in the supreme court. Then of course the only chance would be Justice Kennedy. You never know about him, but he sure sold out the country in Gore versus Bush, so I wouldn't get your hopes up. If one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse reviews the case for consideration, meaning Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito, then the case would only be considered if a lower court ruled against Bush. Then those 4 will move in lockstep to destroy your rights.

[katty]

38. No way--this RW court is loving this one!

[OnyxCollie]

108. Bush v Gore, not Gore v Bush.

Bush was the one who brought the case to court, despite what Scalia would have you believe.

[MrBlueSky]

34. Like I just wrote over at Raw Story...

(but not yet published as of this writing)

After both Patriot Acts passed Congress, I waited for the ACLU to immediately file suit.

All I got for my wait?

: crickets :

Ain't holding my breath this time! (Once burned, twice shy!)

:mad: :grr:

[jeff30997]

36. ACLU! ACLU!

Fuck the Stasi!

[humbled_opinion]

39. You got to be kidding me....

Clinton voted no and Obama voted Yes... This is insane... This is not the Barak Obama I thought I knew. Why won't he stand up for something... take a stand this is an issue worthy of a long debate and fight to keep our Freedoms.....

Buyers Remorse setting in...

[Independent_Liberal]

42. Good, I'm not letting the 4th amendment go down without a fight either!

Go ACLU!

I'm all for showing the fuckers we're not sitting idly by as they dismantle our constitutional rights!

[Doremus]

44. Fight Back! Join the MoneyBomb on August 8!

"The first campaign of this new organization is the formation of Strange Bedfellows, the ideologically diverse coalition we have formed with liberals, libertarians and others who are devoted to the preservation of our core constitutional liberties and the rule of law. Before it has even begun, The Wall St. Journal and numerous online venues have written about this unique coalition.

To initiate and fund our new campaign, we have teamed with the individual who was behind the innovative and extraordinarily successful Ron Paul "money bombs" -- Trevor Lyman, along with Rick Williams and Break the Matrix -- to plan an "Accountability Money Bomb" for August 8. That is the day in 1974 when Richard Nixon was forced to resign from office for his lawbreaking and surveillance abuses. That day illustrates how far we have fallen in this country in less than 35 years, as we now not only permit rampant presidential lawbreaking and a limitless surveillance state, but have a bipartisan political class that endorses it and even retroactively protects the lawbreakers. "

More at link:
http://www.accountabilitynowpac.com/
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/08/accountability/index.html

[Kermitt Gribble]

46. Shame we have to rely

on the ACLU because OUR congress sells us out. And that's some courageous nominee we ended up with.

[katty]

50. it sure is

[Blue_In_AK]

47. I'm proud to be a card-carrying member. n/t

[lonestarnot]

58. Ditto!

[texshelters]

48. Isn't this tyranny?

Okay DU, you're not supposed to talk in a negative way about the Democrats, but the Democrats sold our rights to corporations, some out fear during an election year, some because they don't really care about our rights or understand how unnecessary this passage was.

So, where the hell are the Democrats that are going to defend you now?

They suck, and I would stop complaining about Bush and the Repug and focus on the party that supposedly knows better.

You know where.

Vote for Constitution Democrats or Lefty Independents. Screw the rest of them. If they act like Republicans, why should you vote for them?

Tex Shelters

[FREEWILL56]

120. Yes, I believe it is tyranny.

Voting to get the bums out anymore may be a big waste of time as it is usually rigged and they just line up more of the cronies to run no matter the party affiliation. I will not vote for any repuke and at the same time I will not vote for a DINO either. I fear we have lost the battle to keep our country and keep it free and there is only 1 recourse if that is true. We've been sold out by too many of our own let alone the repukes and it's not all one big coincidence as much as it is collusion and it is undermining our country and betraying the people they are supposed to serve, NOT RULE.
To those so called representatives that have further circumvented the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, and Habeas Corpus and have also obstructed the law and justice; to you a great big FUCK YOU and by God you'll one day get yours. This includes Obama. Will I get the big ax here because I am speaking the truth of even those within our own party who have betrayed us and some are running for office too? Sorry, but I'll support the real patriotic duty of a citizen to support what is right and I will not support or be loyal to even a democratic piece of trash.
I will still vote as they let me believe I still have a right to do, although this system of voting will throw it out, because it will be Dennis Kucinich that will get my vote.

[texshelters]

49. Help me donate here

Anybody know the mailing address, not email, SNAILMAIL for the ACLU so I can send an anonymouse money order. They are notorious for sending mail and spam and I just got rid of their snail mail for the most part.

Tex Shelters

[I Have A Dream]

67. Their website has this address on it.

ACLU, 125 Broad Street, 18th Floor New York, NY 10004

I'm sure that if you send it there, it will get to the correct department.

[Doctor_J]

52. Snark. Any judge who would have upheld the constitution was fired

They're wasting time and money that should be spent on the next revolution.

[4dsc]

53. Cancel your email subscriptions from Obama

I was on Obama's mailing list but it looks as though he doing nothing more than pandering to the right.. How fucking sad.. I'm going to cancel any email's I may get from his campaign and start looking for a candidate who's going to be looking out for my interests.. This is really sad..

[Phred42]

56. And WHERE will it end up? With the Supremes.

So what is it that you expect from that Fascist gang?

[grasswire]

75. so??????

Make them pry it from our hands. Make a public spectacle of it. You can die on your knees or standing up for liberty.

[barbtries]

59. i think i'm ready to join the ACLU

thank heavens for them

[clear eye]

68. Write "For FISA Suit" in Memo Line

see my post near top of topic about ACLU

[barbtries]

127. i have to wait til my next payday,

but i did visit the site yesterday and will join. for fisa suit or all the other good fights...i'm feeling bad that i didn't do it twenty or thirty years ago to tell the truth.

[quakerboy]

63. Which means all of nothing

because the SCOTUS is rigged. ACLU can challenge to its hearts desire. Won't change the fact that this has been enshrined in law and will used for precedent going forward.

God I want to hope.

[paparush]

100. Has there been one thing overturned, rolled back, or thrown out since this asshat has stole office??

I mean, have we, the people, won anything since these fascists staged their coup?

War, corruption, unfettered greed, stolen elections, are all still happening...in broad daylight.

This country may, literally, never recover from eight years of this man's evil.

[trthnd4jstc]

64. Once I get Money, I will

Send Money to the ACLU. Send Money to the League of Women Voters. Send Money to my Son's Orthodontist. Send money to a fund to buy some farm land, in order to move towards self-sufficiency.

[Taverner]

65. I disagree with Obama on this one

It may turn out to be his Iraq War Vote.

I still support him 100% - but this was a bad bad bad decision. Both for his electability and for all of us.

I am sending the ACLU money to fight this.

[grasswire]

71. today is the day to join the ACLU

If you join or donate today, you strengthen those who support the Constitution and weaken those who attack it.

Join. Even if you can only afford ten bucks, donate.

For the future of liberty.

http://www.aclu.org

[emald]

77. I will support this fight gotta go find their web site

enough of this lawlessness. E N O U G H !! I can't shout any louder than that but I want to be heard. What a disgusting congress and leadership. Obama is toast with me and all who ask will hear an earfull, as will many who don't ask. Man, this really makes me mad.

[Lucky 13]

78. God Bless the ACLU

I'm glad to see SOMEONE out there is looking out for the Constitution. I am horribly disappointed in Sen. Obama and the Democratic Party over this.

[MasonJar]

79. Thank God for the ACLU. They are all that stand between the people and

the government. I have a monthly donation taken from my bank account for them. It is worth every penny.

[LWolf]

81. GOOD.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[yurbud]

83. time to make a donation to the ACLU *** LINK***

http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FJ_donationhome

[whistle]

85. Good, k & r

[pberq]

86. It’s outrageous, unconstitutional and un-American

Received by email:

Dear ACLU Supporter,

Today, elected officials in Washington sold out the Constitution -- again.

Cowed by the Bush administration’s pre-election scare tactics, the Senate passed freedom-stealing FISA legislation undermining your Fourth Amendment rights.

This is not a “compromise,” as some in Congress would have us believe. The only thing they compromised is your freedom. Become an ACLU monthly donor, and stand up for your rights.

The FISA Amendments Act allows for mass, untargeted and warrantless surveillance of all communications coming into and out of the United States. And to top it off, it hands immunity to telecom companies for their role in domestic spying. This means your phone calls can be tapped and emails read with virtually no proof of threat, and there's no chance to learn how the telecoms invaded your privacy.

It’s outrageous, unconstitutional and un-American. That’s why the ACLU is prepared to challenge this unconstitutional law the moment President Bush signs it.

[rg302200]

89. I am still going to donate to Obama

this argument against FISA will get us no where....well it will get us one thing, A McCain presidency!

[Diane R]

95. Thank you. A voice of reason.

[rg302200]

139. It seems that there are not many of us

on this board now a days

[zonmoy]

92. What makes you think that they will win.

what makes you think that the courts haven't been so co-opted to the point that any legal way of making a stand against tyranny isn't doomed to failure.

[paparush]

98. Skype and PGP for everyone!

Skype's encrypted.

Start encrypting all of your email.

Can they crack it? Perhaps.

Lets at least make the bastards work for it. Lets crank up the BACKGROUND NOISE!

[NoodleyAppendage]

115. EXCELLENT IDEAS. Resistance through encryption!!! To arms with the PGP! n/t

Good call. Bringing my PGP out of the cabinet and installing later tonight.

J

[R. P. McMurphy]

116. The System is Broken

They refuse to cooperate on issues that would benefit the country. Both sides are beholden to various constituencies (none of which includes the general public) and play petty partisan games in a never-ending game of one-oneupmanship. They lie to us and mismanage virtually everything in which they become involved. They accuse each other of being out-of-touch but the truth is that they all are. They are so caught up in the madness of "beltway-think" that they don't see that they are part of a pathetic circus - - and that their act has grown old. They won't impeach, they won't establish a rational health care system, they won't guarantee our retirement. They won't do much of anything but grandstand for the cameras, line their own pockets, take care of their buddies and send our children into harm's way. It is time for ALL of these clowns to go. I propose that we put aside our differences, reach out to the people on the other side, and together we make two simple demands. 1) that the Senate drop the practice of requiring 60 votes for passage of legislation. A simple majority is sufficient. If someone feels strongly about an issue then let them filibuster. Its too easy to block legislation now. We could end a lot of this foolishness if Senators were required to pay some consequences for their obstructive tactics. 2) that the Congress pass at least one major piece of bipartisan legislation each year that benefits a majority of persons. If they play their games as usual and refuse to work together - - we vote whomever is up for election out. It doesn't matter if they are republican or democrat. If they can't find some way to work past their differences then they need to find some other line of work. If Congress was confronted with a united, enraged electorate, they would get the message pretty quickly. You want to keep your job - - get something done. Politically, I am a centrist with leftist sympathies. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe that there is something on which the vast majority of us can find common ground. We have to re-assert authority over Congress. They have forgotten who is the Master. We can do this. If we don't we are doomed to suffer this Idiocracy that we have let grow in our midst.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LuckyTheDog]

121. Fuck you

[OkieD]

124. My 2 cents

I am no expert on this, but this is my take.
They traded FISA for the Medicare Bill.

The people who were at risk get their medical care. FISA goes to court where is will lose. At the end of the day everyone will win.

This is how politics seems to work in this country. Wish it were different, but this is what we got.

[John Q. Citizen]

125. The ACLU are great Americans. I support them!

[bdamomma]

131. I just donated to the ACLU.

[Norrin Radd]

132. kr

[dixiegrrrrl]

133. Just sent email to Obama's Illinois office

said I will send all future political donations to the agency which is committed to fight FOR the Bill of Rights: the ACLU.
Said I could not think of any single reason why Obama should have voted FOR the FISA bill.

I am so OVER playing politics.




:mad:

[lark]

136. Obama approved the tool that may cause him to lose

If he doesn't think that the BFEE won't wiretap his office, he's not nearly as smart as he appears. Is he really that naive to think this action will get him anytihng other than runner-up? It certainly won't get him the votes of Repugs or right leaning Independents - they are already sold on "all war all the time". He's pissed off progessives and gutted one of our important constitutional rights - good job- :sarcasm:.

[unblock]

138. THANK GOD FOR THE SUPREME COURT!!!!

oh, shit.