Southwest denies family travel (4 unruly kids)

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Austin Statesman

A woman, her four children and her pregnant sister were refused boarding on the second leg of their Detroit to Seattle trip. Southwest said the family was too unruly during the Detroit to Phoenix portion of their journey to continue on to Seattle.

The family says they were asked twice by flight attendants to quiet the children but they didn’t expect to be denied travel. It was the family’s first flight. One of the children is autistic. Another has cerebral palsy.

The mother Wendy Slaughter told Seattle Television station KIRO-7:

“The children were out of control on the flight you know, they were restless, excited and worked up and they are kids,” said Slaughter.

-----

(Southwest spokesperson)“They were being disruptive and unruly on the plane, and for the safety of our customers and the flight crew, we decided to not allow them to travel on to Seattle at that time. Typically if it’s a threatening behavior, it’s not safe to travel 30,000 feet in the air in a contained environment.”

Read more: http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mamadrama/entries/2008/07/07/southwest_denies_family_travel.html

---

BTW some police officers donated money to get them hotel rooms and meals. A grandmother spent $2,000 to get them tickets on another airline.

I'm kinda on Southwest's side but I think they should've flown the family anyway perhaps after sitting them down and really laying down the law to both the mother, her sister and the kids. Don't think it was great they stranded them. If I was Southwest and the kids continued to be unruly I'd have banned them from future flights for a time period.

Too bad they don't film for "Airline" anymore (show on A&E). This would've made a heckuva episode.

[Bluzmann57]

1. Some police officers donated money?

But I thought all police were bad. :sarcasm:

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Do you really meet people with such simple opinions?

:shrug:

And wouldn't the opposite opinion be just as silly?

[TheMadMonk]

83. I certainly do, and to bloody many of them are here on DU. n/t

[Skittles]

99. there's been some anti-cop crap on DU that is very disturbing

very broad-brushing stuff - very ugly

[Midlodemocrat]

2. Psst. Head over to the lounge.

Potential flame war brewing on this. Bring your :popcorn:

[LaurenG]

3. You would think the airlines would have to foot any bills the family incurred after being left

there.

[tularetom]

4. There really IS a Screaming Baby Airlines

I don't think any airline ought to be doing anything to discourage even unruly passengers. They should be glad they still have passengers.

[WriteDown]

5. I'm on Soutwest's side too

Nothing is worse than an unruly child on a long flight. I can feel a migraine coming on just thinking about it. I am surprised that mother did not have something to be given to the children to calm them down for the flight.

[Sabriel]

10. What do you suggest? A martini? A Valium?

Why should kids be given "something" in order to be allowed to fly?

[WriteDown]

13. Maybe just some benadryl....

Although the Martini works for me personally.

[joeglow3]

40. Benadryl is what we gave our kids before flying

We asked our Ped. and he said it would make the flight more comfortable for them, in addition to not bothering other passengers. It really was not a big deal.

[pansypoo53219]

54. a grasshopper or two may be more to their liking.

baby schnapps.

[TXDemGal]

91. Some kids who take Benadryl

get *more* wired up. It just depends on the kid. Just my experience.

[sui generis]

189. yeah I think diphenhydramine hcl is a chiral product

meaning half of it has a "handedness" that certain physiologies react to with unpredictable results.

It's also primarily anti-cholinergic which means either way, hung over cranky kids later.

[Ilsa]

105. Benadryl has a paradoxical effect on ALOT of kids. It is a very

typical reaction. Makes them VERY hyperactive. It is not the panacea the airlines claim.

[AnneD]

119. It is important to know your kids reaction prior to the flight...

I gave a Tylenol/benadryl mix when she was very young. The benadryl would make her sleepy and the Tylenol makes the body temp drop which mimics what naturally happens in a deep sleep. Worked like a charm. I have been stuck on international flights with unruly kids and while I have patients (I have the most with infants), much had to do with lack of planning and behaviour issues. I took my daughter on many flights and she knew what was expected of her. There was a lot of planning involved and I had to plan many diversions, but it worked. On more than one occasion we were complimented on her behaviour. I also taught her restaurant and shopping manners too. Kids can learn these thing if you teach them.

Southwest can but them off, but for good PR they should help them to a different airlines if possible.

Edited to add that special needs kids can require different things and those needs should be made known up front. The child's doc should have been consulted and a mild seditive may have been called for if the child with autism. CP doesn't have the same issues that I am aware of.

[Ilsa]

124. My son used to get sleepy with benadryl, but not anymore.

He also takes other meds. His dentist wouldn't give him anything when he had a cavity filled because of drug reactions. I had to take care of it myself. I'm an RN; I know how dangerous this stuff can get in medicating young children, or older kids already on meds.

[slackmaster]

21. Not all kids, only kids who have behavior issues that are hard to control

Sometimes a Valium is the best solution.

[roguevalley]

32. I remember a flight where some kid kicked the back of my seat all

the way and then peered over messing with me. the parents were ASS BASTARDS!!! God, I cannot believe I can get that mad just thinking about it again. People who cannot control their kids need to rethink flying. We all pay and we all deserve peace. Nothing worse than a kid not ready to do something howling like a monkey for three to five hours.

Also, I remember riding on a train from London to Edinburgh, seven hours. This woman had a man captive across from her and talked constantly, I MEAN CONSTANTLY WITHOUT EVEN TAKING BREATHS FOR THE ENTIRE SEVEN HOURS!!! I thought I would go postal and kill her. It was like being tortured.

[uppityperson]

50. I remember a flight when some elderly woman shoved the back of my seat all the way.

6 hours of her hitting the back of my seat, shoving it up really hard and fast even when they turned out the lights and everyone was supposed to rest. It really pissed me off. Not a word, not a request to not recline too far, but any time I lowered it back even one tiny bit, WHAM!

People who cannot control themselves need to rethink flying. We all pay and we all deserve peace. Nothing worse than a person shoving your head up for three to five hours. (copy pasted yes, but also yes, this is a true story)

[LisaM]

80. I always get stuck behind a seat reclining person

It bugs me because I like to do crossword puzzles and this gives me almost no room to do them. I'm not elderly, so it wasn't me kicking you, but I spend the first hour of the flight fighting for some of my space by pushing the seat in front of me before I finally gave up.

I also stay awake later than most and like to read. Last time I flew, a few weeks ago, I was trying to read, after not being able to do my crossword puzzle becuase of the seat-recliner in front of me, in the little tiny wedge of space I had left, and the lady next to me reached up and turned my light off! WHILE I WAS READING!

[uppityperson]

86. If I were politely asked to not recline far, I probably would.

Shoving my seat back up every time I moved it at all, that is not very civil. The seats are able to recline, and passengers are allowed to recline. It seems that if a passenger has an issue with the person in front of them reclining, or even tipping back slightly, there could be a better way than just shoving it back up.

Turning off your light, that was an intrusion indeed. Asking someone, talking to each other, often it can help.

[LisaM]

88. I haven't figured out the best way to deal with it (the reclining)

because some people are tall, and they are probably uncomfortable (as far as the light lady, I did ask her "did you just turn off my light?" and she said, "yes, I did" (can you believe that? LOL) and then I turned it back on). I've never had anyone consult me whether it was okay to recline their seat. Some just recline a little, some just throw themselves back with abandon. I'm not sure of the protocol. I don't want them to be all squished, but OTOH, what about me? If they throw it back all the way right away, I generally give them a little punch just to let them know there's someone there.

[uppityperson]

117. Everyone's seat reclines, they don't have to ask permission.

That is part of the deal, your seat reclines, you can recline your seat. If the person behind you has an issue with it, the best thing to do is talk with the person in front of you. Most of us on an airplane are aware there are other people there, punching the back of a seat merely shows you have either no manners or for some reason are unwilling to civilly discuss the matter.

If you are squished, you have the ability, and the right, to recline your seat also. I do not think you have the right to physically accost the person in front of you.

My mistake is I did not speak up. I was concerned that if someone continually punched the back of my seat, they would not restrain themselves with me. Next time I will ask, and then talk with a flight attendant as that behavior is uncalled for.

[Angleae]

147. Not all of them do.

At least there are a few that shouldn't recline. The row immediately in front of the overwing emergency exits by default should be rigged not to recline in order to prevent blockage to the emergency exits (either that or the row behind has extra space.)

[uppityperson]

168. That is true, I missed that. Everyone's seat reclines except for the few that don't.

[SheilaT]

220. That row is rigged not to recline.

Or at least that's the case on every plane I've been on.

[LisaM]

171. LOL, just a light punch. More like a push back. I think you misunderstand.

I was attempting a joke.

I think I also have the right to use my tray table and do a crossword puzzle. Of course, the seats are too close together to begin with and that's a huge part of the problem, but for one thing, I don't even like to recline. I sit up straight. Everyone has an equal right to the space they've paid for and the space I use on a plane is the space in front of me. If I reclined, I'd be too far away from my tray table to use it for the crossword puzzle. Again, though, there are plenty of people who don't recline. I just always seem to get stuck behind one. They briefly made a product you could buy to prevent the seat in front of you from reclining, but I guess it didn't catch on.

[jberryhill]

203. That device was banned by American Airlines (among others)

...because interfering with the operation of the seats is against airline policy.

I did 19 hours from Auckland, NZ to Los Angeles, and there was a woman behind me who didn't want me to recline.

19 freaking hours.

Good thing I had ear plugs when the FA explained to her that, no, every passenger on the plane is entitled to recline their seat.

[jberryhill]

137. You deal with my back problems....

...or you deal with me reclining.

That's the way the seats are made.

I would not wish on you the pain that I get from airline seats, and I have to fly a lot.

[LisaM]

172. I sympathize

though I don't have back problems and that is because I don't slouch. I've always sat up very straight, since I was a kid, and my back problems over the years have been extremely minimal.

However, I don't think you are sympathizing with ME. I hate flying. I like to get a drink, and work on a crossword puzzle to distract myself. If the person in front of me reclines fully, MY tray table space gets reduced to a tiny little wedge that is rendered virtually unusable. I'm rarely on a flight that is less than four hours, and this is a problem for me.

[jberryhill]

186. Here you go....

Yeah... and someone writing on the tray table is pretty irritating.

Have a drink:



and a crossword puzzle:



or get fancy:





...but I'm reclining. The seats are made that way.

Or... get yourself a pair of "Knee Defenders", which attach to the tray table supports and do not permit the seat in front of you to recliine:

http://www.extend-its.com/knee.htm

You WILL get kicked off of American Airlines for using them, though.

[nodehopper]

110. the light thing was rude, but seat reclining?

everyone's seat reclines, unless you are in a back row--if you are reclining your seat and expect the person in front of you to not recline theirs, then you get more space than everyone else. if you recline your seat and the person in front of you reclines theirs you get exactly as much room as you would get if neither of you reclined.

[izquierdista]

185. You need to ask for the seat puller then

Ask to be seated in front of an obese elderly person who doesn't know how to use the armrests to lift themselves. I've had several flights where the the person in front of me reclined their seat and I didn't have much room until the person behind me had to use the lavatory. Miracle of miracles! When they grabbed my seat to hoist their 300 pounds up into the aisle, I had all the room in the world, as I was looking straight up at the ceiling.

[Horse with no Name]

213. goddamned you

You made me laugh so hard I peed my pants.:rofl:

[roguevalley]

114. its awful but then flying is hell anymore. I remember when it was great.

i actually remember getting real silverware with my dinner. (yes, i am that old) :)

[yardwork]

175. Let's reminisce about that. I remember real silverware - cute little utensils

The food was supposedly bad but at least it was food. And for a while there in the 1980s the airlines offered fairly good food. Rolls with cream cheese, that kind of thing.

[appleannie1]

231. I actually remember getting dinner.

[Demeter]

148. Before Seats Were Spaced Roughly Equivalent to Slave Ship Accommodations

this didn't use to be such an issue. Now, it's nearly impossible to avoid banging the seat in front of you--there's simply no room at all.

Sardine Airlines--real cosy!

[LibertyLover]

90. I've been on that train up to Edinburgh

with my 4 year old daughter who was content to play quietly and stay with her parents. Then there was the mother and 4 year old boy across the aisle. The entire trip up to York where they de-trained, all we heard was a whine from her over his screams - "Paris, please behave, you're making mummy sad." I wanted to tell her that if the little brat was making her sad, she had ways of taking care of that and if she didn't I could. It was almost a relief to just have the drunken teenagers trying to pick up the slightly older university girls going home for Christmas break - at least that was amusing.

[Posteritatis]

103. Love the runon-sentence types

I was on a five-hour bus ride across a good chunk of Ontario this spring; in the seat behind me was a woman who was having a monversation on her cell phone basically consisting of how wise and awesome she is. it was, as you describe it, more or less a single, hours-long sentence.

I'm still convinced she didn't actually have the phone on, but just wanted to expose everyone within earshot to her nuggets of folk wisdom and the like. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen someone faking a cell phone conversation.

[roguevalley]

113. this was like fingernails on a chalkboard. I've never seen anything

like it and I hope I never do.

[Lorien]

123. Hell, I was on a trans continental flight once on one of those jumbo jets

the kind with five or so seats in the center row. A businessman and myself were already seated in the center section when two kids-ages about six and nine-started running back and forth in the eisle. Their parents came on board, carrying a huge load of suitcases and toys. "No kids, we're on the other side, over there"! the mom pointed. So the kids came through the center section, CRAWLED ACROSS THE LAP OF THE BUSINESSMAN, then GRABBED MY HAIR, STEPPED ONTO MY LEGS AND JUMPED OFF! I stated loudly "What the hell is wrong with you two? Can't you just say "excuse me" and wait for us to move"?? They ignored me. The businessman was too flabbergasted to say anything. I asked the parents if they witnessed their kids behavior and they just shrugged. Unreal!

I usually carry a portable DVD player, two headphones with a Y connector, and about a dozen children's flicks (I work for Disney so they aren't hard for me to come by). That DVD player has bought me quite a few peaceful flights. It's amazing how often parents neglect to bring ANYTHING to entertain their kids with on a long flight!

[Jack_DeLeon]

79. how about not flying at all...

if you cant control your kids you really shouldnt be taking them out into situations like that.

Why should someone force their problems on everyone else.

[nodehopper]

111. I think people just need to get over being bothered by kids on airlines

I am so sick of people making statements like--if you can't control your child, don't bring them on the flight--does that apply to infants, who cannot be necessarily "controlled" or disciplined?

in many cases people don't have any other option except to fly with their children (like visiting elderly parents in another country)--I find these statements about children to be incredibly spoiled and privileged. Your not being bothered by a flying child is not a prerogative to be safeguarded at the expense of other people's ability to fly.

[Jack_DeLeon]

127. I actually dont fly...

havent really had a need to yet, I'm not fond of paying lots of money to be treated like cattle. Flying is a "luxury," one certainly doesnt it need it to survive. When I have kids I certainly wont force them to fly, just so we can go have a "vacation."

[nodehopper]

136. right, and that is totally your choice

on the other hand, for many immigrants, who make up a sizable percentage on many air routes, not flying to the islands, or Central America, or China, or Ghana, WITH their kids--is not really an option--that is where their families are, that is where their parents are, and given how many people fall into that category, I find all of these sentiments (not yours, but others in the thread), to be incredibly privileged and classist.

[krabigirl]

128. Seriously. If you don't want "unruly" kids on your flight, take a private jet.

[Lifetimedem]

177. Exactly !

[bitchkitty]

169. Normal kids, no. Autistic children - yes!

For their own protection and peace. The child must have been in agony.

[FourScore]

204. Doctors are not at all adverse to medicating children with

behaviorial issues before a flight. The mother should have consulted her pediatrician. Especially regarding the child with autism.

Sounds like she had her hands full. But it must have been pretty bad for the Airlines to ban them on the next flight.

[Maraya1969]

241. No it's for the adults silly............

[krabigirl]

126. ugh...all I can say

[high density]

7. Good for Southwest

I'm tired of parents bringing their rugrats into public and then forcing everybody else to deal with their antics. I see it in restaurants far too often and I've seen it on planes as well. Just because the parents have mastered the art of ignoring their kids doesn't mean the rest of us should have to put up with their out of control kids.

[skooooo]

9. I felt the same way until I read...

..that one child is autistic and the other has cerebal palsey. Seems like the parents are just screwed no matter what.

[enlightenment]

11. Not an excuse.

CP is a physical, not a behavioral disorder - and it is rather suspect that the "condition" of the other child shifted from "short attention span" to autism over the course of a few hours of reporting.

I strongly suspect the biggest problem these kids have is a complete lack of discipline in the home.

Southwest was correct and I applaud their decision. I would have tied the little buggers to the wing.

[skooooo]

14. Should have given them antihistimines..

..or something safe to sedate them a little bit.

[pnwmom]

74. In many children antihistamines have an opposite effect to what you'd

expect.

I don't think there's a simple solution in the case of autism.

[skooooo]

78. By the age of those kids..

...the mother should know how to handle it - whatever.

[pnwmom]

87. That comment shows you know very little about autism.

"Handling it" is a day-to-day, minute-by-minute proposition. Very few children will grow out of it and the vast majority of parents never get a chance to stop learning how to deal with it.

I have a friend with an older teenage son with autism, and the challenge is still huge. Why do you think these kids used to be automatically institutionalized? Thank goodness most of society is more open to these differences now.

[Ilsa]

106. Not with autistic kids. A moderately autistic child can be very unpredictable.

I know. I have one. Drugs don't always work they way you think they will, either, especially benadryl, which gives alot of kids paradoxical side effects like hyperactivity and agitation.

I feel bad for the airline and the passengers and this family. Here they were, hoping to go on a trip. I bet the adults and older kids hadn't been anywhere in years. I only get further out than 120 miles once every three years because of the autism problems.

[kaygore]

29. I agree! Many parents just don't take responsibility for their children's behavior

I have friends with autistic children and those children behave. If they are unruly, the parents remove them from the situation. If the child was a problem on the flight, then the parent should have requested a time out for the kid and a later flight. I bet the kids behaved on the new flight! As a society, there seem to be no consequences, no accountability.

If the kids really were a nightmare, then the parents should never have confined them in the small space of an airplane for all that time. There are trains and cars and just staying home.

Sorry, but being a very frequent flier, I applaud Southwest!

[kiranon]

72. Autistic tantrums don't last forever.

I'm sure they did well on the next flight where the passengers and flight crew were more sympathetic. As a mom to 2 autistic children, once an autistic child starts to tantrum it is very difficult to stop the behavior. A tantrum can come on from almost any stimulus - too much air blowing on the child, the seat fiber rubs the wrong way, the smell in the air is objectionable to the child, something within the child is going haywire because of something no one else is perceiving but the autistic child is. Our family has the resources to hire people work with our children so they can function most everywhere but most families are not so fortunate. Should only the well to do fly? Should only those who behave perfectly fly? Who decides what is perfect? Were all of you never children before? Can no one put up with some discomfort? What will you do if your child turns out to be autistic? Are you ready to give up your life and all travel and going to any restaurant or outside? What do you expect these parents to do - crawl in a hole and never come out? Place their children in an institution and walk away?

[pnwmom]

75. Thanks for your post, kiranon. As a parent of so-called "normal" children,

I can well imagine the stress that parents of "different" children must be under. What kind of growing child does well having to sit still for hours on end? I have to question the parenting skills of many of those who are expounding on what this mother should have done -- even though none of us know the exact details of the children's behavior.

I do know that flight attendants aren't universally sweet and patient; some of them have even been known to kick nursing mothers and babies off the plane. And then there was the 2 year old who was doing nothing more than looking out the window and saying "bye bye" (in an ominous way!)

Without more facts, I would never presume to judge this mother; and, even with more facts, I would probably be thinking -- I'm glad I didn't have to face her situation. Flying with my own kids was hard enough.

[woo me with science]

115. No evidence these kids were having a tantrum.

According to the story I saw, they were running and rolling in the aisles.

[knitter4democracy]

236. That can be an autistic kid's tantrum.

Many have difficulty communicating and can therefore act out in ways other kids wouldn't. It's not an easy situation by any means.

[LWolf]

217. This brings up a question.

Knowing that stimulus might trigger a tantrum, should an adult traveling with an autistic child be able to request a seat that might reduce excess stimulation? All the way at the back or front, for example.

Are there things that can be brought on a trip to provide comfort, and reduce some of the stress?

[pnwmom]

31. Autism can cause severe behavioral issues. I seriously doubt that

this mother would be putting that label on her child if it weren't true. It is much more likely that she had trouble admitting the diagnosis at first.

Edited to note: I've googled this, and see no mention of a "short attention span" at all. (Every article mentions autism.) Where did you get that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Some autistic kids are also ADD

Perhaps it was an assumption. :shrug:

[enlightenment]

64. From the interview this morning on CNN.

I my first thought was "that's IT?" Your kid has a short attention span and that's your excuse?

Stuck in my head.

And I wouldn't put it past anyone to give their kid a label like that if they thought it might make people more sympathetic. Sorry. I realise that there has been a spike in autism diagnoses since they widened the net and started calling it a spectrum disorder, but it has become this decades version of ADD - the disorder du jour.

I am not suggesting that there are not a lot of children with autism, but I do firmly believe that it is being diagnosed inaccurately and far too easily. Just like ADD. We know that to be true today and I think we'll find the same is true of autism in another 10 years. My now 28 year old son was diagnosed with ADD when he was four - and he still is today. He's learned techniques to deal with it, but it's always there. Not fun, but he manages pretty well. But in the years that I was raising him - volunteering at school to help in his classes or standing in for the school nurse or whatever - I saw kids who could turn the behaviour on and off like a light-switch. They were all diagnosed ADD, too. Took me a few years to realise that there were a lot of doctors who were handing out the diagnosis (and the drugs) to every parent who complained that her little darling wouldn't stop sticking fire crackers up Mr. Boots arse or gluing his sister's hair to her pillow at night.

It's naive to believe that every child called "autistic" really is -or that every parent who labels their child "autistic" is completely sincere.

But even if this kid is autistic, there's no excuse. Mom and Auntie should have prepared the child and been prepared to deal with the child. Period.

[Ilsa]

108. Doctors aren't handing out those diagnoses very easily any more.

ADD or ADHD requires alot of screening in order for a label to be attached or a drug script to be written. The drugs are expensive and sometimes dangerous.

Autistic children are frequently incapable of learning, as a child, the appropriate social skills, especially holding back frustration, anxiety, fear, etc. Some are unable to recognize and label their own feelings at that moment. We are dealing with that right now with our autistic son, age 11. We hope he can get a better handle on it as he gets older and with additional training from patient, well-trained educators.

We spent over a year not going out ANYWHERE with our son except school, etc because once a store employee threatened to call the police on us because our son was crying so loudly that she figured we must be abusing him. My husband and I have both been through periods of feeling suicidal, partially because we are so LOCKED DOWN most of the time.

This little family was trying to go see other family, a rare event. It's a shame for everyone that it went so poorly.

Give this parent a break. She is probably doing everything she can to manage such a terrible situation. There is no need to minimize her difficulties by re-diagnosing her child as fraudulently autistic.

[enlightenment]

134. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I did not "re-diagnose" the child - I simply stated that simply because someone says their child is autistic, it doesn't necessarily mean their child is autistic.

I see no reason to give this parent a break. You are projecting your own frustrations, which is understandable - but hardly relevant to how other people should perceive this situation. If you want to not only accept her story at face-value, but add your own little emotional twists - This little family was trying to go see other family, a rare event. - feel free to do so; but don't expect other people to do the same.

I sincerely wish you well with your son.

[Demeter]

149. That's Just Plain Ignorant and Nuts

I have an autistic daughter, 25 years old. I would give anything for her not to be autistic. There is no mistaking it. People don't designate their kids "autistic" for the perks. There is no automatic sympathy. There is no cure, nor is one likely. And there are no sure-fire techniques.

"prepare the child" "Deal with the child" I would LOVE to give you a first-hand education in that.

The first time I watched "Rain Man" I was looking for clues and my child was young. The second time, I couldn't even watch. My child is now considered an "adult" when it suits the authorities, and dependent when it doesn't.

[kiranon]

67. Perhaps you will be so fortunate to get a chance to find out.

Parenting children with disabilities is very hard - and, made harder by those who do not understand autism or CP or both.

[Stewie]

22. Eh, I'm not so quick to believe that.

All the children I know with CP tend to be well-behaved, and I've seen a lot of parents claim their child is autistic or has ADD when they don't want to take the responsibility of parening them. Even then, there are a lot of autistic children who are well-behaved.

Sounds more like lousy parents who think everyone else is responsible for raising their kids. I'm booking a flight to Dallas today, and I think I just decided on Southwest.

[LostinVA]

65. CP is not an emotion/behavioral/mental condition

It's not fair to the other passengers, nor is it safe for ANYONE, to let FOUR KIDS run around the cabin. My mom is a pediatric nurse, and her doctors always suggest Benadryl.

[Lifetimedem]

179. Bingo!

mom used that as an excuse IMHO

[Lifetimedem]

178. Believe it or not

Handicapped children are not animals . Like all children they can be taught to listen to their parents .

[LeftishBrit]

215. Severely autistic children cannot always be taught to listen to anyone

About 50% of autistic children never develop useful language.

And even high-functioning, well-trained autistic children may go to pieces when their routine is disrupted and they are exposed to sensory overload and lots of people milling around. A plane - and still more so, an airport - are close to being the worst environment for autistic children. Probably it would have been better not to *take* the child on a plane in the first place; but that isn't always possible.

I do suspect that in *this particular case*, part of the problem may not be with the disabled children, but with their siblings who probably get very little attention *because* their parents are concentrating on the disabled ones, and who may be troublesome for that reason. And if the children were causing a potential danger to others, the airline *may* have had no choice but to ask them to leave the plane - though they should have given them more help with accommodation arrangements.

But I don't think it's fair to blame parents for the abnormal behaviour of an autistic child, unless one knows much more. Handicapped children aren't all the same. A child with a limp or a paralyzed arm can be taught to listen to their parents. A child with severe autism often cannot. A child with mild autism can be taught to do so under many circumstances, but it may not be possible to stop them from having a 'meltdown' when the environment becomes too chaotic and stressful.

[Lifetimedem]

234. If the parents

know the child is uncontrollable they need not take him when they travel .

[LeftishBrit]

239. So where do they leave him?

Some people have relatives who are capable of looking after an autistic child for the duration; some don't. Some places have affordable 'respite care' available for such circumstances; some don't. Sometimes the parents could simply choose not to travel, especially by plane; sometimes it isn't a choice.

I agree that ideally the child, and therefore the other passengers, would not have been placed in a situation with which he couldn't cope - but this is the real world, not an ideal world.

[sui generis]

15. agreed - parents should have to go to school and get a license

and I am 1000% dead serious. Plus don't fuck with me, continuing education. And if you really piss me off, I'll have your brats spayed and neutered.

There are dangerous breed laws in most cities. I think there should be stupid bred laws too. Put them on a harness, make sure they have food and water, and muzzle the little shits in public.

Or leave them at home.

:P

Most kids are decent and within tolerability even when they're challenging the boundaries, but there are some brats that are just :eyes: not public venue material. Leave them at home until they're old enough to inbreed or whatever they do (see suggestion re: spaying and neutering), and spare the rest of us please!

[enlightenment]

17. I love you. nt

[kestrel91316]

34. Yeah!!

[uppityperson]

52. Damn straight! give then tasers and spray valium in their "newborn" packages also!

After all, no one has proven that spraying a kid with valium and then tasing them hurts them in any way, right?

[kiranon]

61. Thank you for understanding children with disabilities

Not all children are as perfect as I am sure you were. My two children are autistic and their behavior stems from their disability not poor parenting. We just returned from a trip to Disneyland leaving the Bay Area and driving to Anaheim. We drove because we knew the children would not do well on a flight but this family may not have known how their children would react. Benedryl for our son sets him off and would do no good. I do not know what the answer is for children with disabilities but their hardship calls IMHO for a different response than yours sets forth. I hope the karma you sent out today does not come back and bite you when you have children or grandchildren. Autism is everywhere. Often if the flight attendants and the fellow passengers tried to stay calm and help the mom the problem would have been resolved.

[sui generis]

163. I'll be more gentle with you

I wasn't referring to kids with disabilities.

I will say this though: my sister has two perfectly normal older teens whom she has told everyone are slightly autistic, have ADHD, bi polar disorder, and every other malady she can think of to cover for their bad behavior.

They read, write, play video games, and apparently are the unipolar variant since they don't experience depression or anxiety. She's never had a formal axis diagnosis of any of these "conditions", and though she is my sis and close family, she is utterly blind to the idea that her poor put upon kids don't require any less discipline or expectation of behavior than a normal child (and, surprise, they're pretty damn normal).

"When you have children". When you have grandchildren. I'll just leave that alone in the name of my subject line.

I are old and evil and have spawned generations now.

About Karma - as little as I know about you to qualify me to issue a judgement, which is nothing, I can say with certainty that karma has nothing to do with my life or my worldview or philosophy. A living universe requires that you take responsibility, not put it off on fate.

Karma offends me, but I'm not going to hell for it. ;)

[DarthDem]

141. Ugh

Meant to be funny? I sure hope so, despite the spectacular failure. Truly a "sui generis" post indeed.

[sui generis]

162. grow up

it was funny except to the humor challenged. And if I were talking about children with disabilities I would have mentioned children with disabilities.

I'm talking about rude little shits made that way by their rude inconsiderate parents. I also qualified the post by observing that not all kids are devilspawn.

You will actually have to get off your high horse to procreate and see for yourself.

[Lifetimedem]

181. The more out of control children I see

The more I agree with you.

Parents are too busy being pals with their kids or too busy with their own lives to teach common courtesy and obedience.

[DrDan]

16. "rugrats" . . . well, no one will accuse you of going overboard with your family values

I travel quite a bit on business - in and out of Orlando. There are constantly kids on those flights. I have yet to get as worked up about it as you apparently are.

Changes in air pressure are more difficult for babies and infants. It is not like they are "our of control" - just physiologiaclly different than adults.

I'll bet you are a real treat to go to a meal with.

[high density]

41. I guess you haven't sat for a few hours on a plane in front of kids that are constantly screaming

Since the woman has four kids, I assume we're not talking completely about babies and infants, though I do think parents who fly with infants are both stupid and being very inconsiderate to the fellow passengers. That said, most infants on a whole generate less noise than some of these rambunctious kids.

I have sat in front of out of control kids for hours on aircraft and it is not a fun thing to do. I also didn't know that wanting to eat in a restaurant without the kid(s) in the booth next to me making my ears physically hurt was some sort of a character flaw. There are plenty of kids out there that are well behaved, but there are also plenty that are not with the oblivious parents to go with them.

[DrDan]

55. oh I guess I have.

I live in the Orlando area and have done extensive business travel from OIA for many years. I would bet you would be hard-pressed to find more kid-laden aircraft than those headed for or out of Orlando. I think I am just a tad more tolerant.

And I have spent plenty of time in restaurants with children all over. Hard to avoid them in Orlando. I have yet to reach the point where I would begin to refer to them as "rugrats" etc.

[hedgehog]

93. "Rugrat" can be a term of affection or derision depending on

context. My husband used to describe our kids as two rug rats, two curtain climbers and two porch monkeys. We also called them little monsters. Other families affectionately refer to their kids as brats.

[DrDan]

94. I certainly agree with that - but read the post

it is obvious how the poster feels toward children that challenge his personal space.

[DrDan]

95. read post number 7 above

the tone of the poster is obvious.

[hedgehog]

98. I have to admit that I agree with the poster that it's up to parents to

teach their children how to behave in public. I can understand a kid fussing over ear pain, but if you don't let them kick your seat in the car, why are allow them to kick a stranger's seat on a plane? Restaurant dining is usually an optional event that can be delayed until the kids an behave.


I had six kids, and they knew that when we went to the store, it was look, don't touch! They are also still the first ones to step forward to offer an arm to an elderly person on an icy day or open a door.

[DrDan]

150. How do you know they were kicking the seats?

I did not read that anywhere. I ask that seriously - I don't know myself.

These children have disabilities. Where is the compassion. Not necessarily from you - but from this "progressive" site. Seems the police and some woman contributor found it - coming up with some hotel money and money for other airline tickets to allow the family to continue.

[hedgehog]

166. I was referring to the other posts that indicate that children kicking the seats

is a common problem on airlines. I doubt it was a problem in this particualr case since apparently these children were running up and downthe aisle!

[high density]

160. How do you know my tolerance level?

I'm glad you feel it's in your place to judge me for expecting parents to control their children, but the fact remains a lot of parents don't care and the disruption can reach a level where it ruins the experience for everybody else involved.

[pansypoo53219]

57. they need a no children section.

or go where they ain't.

[nodehopper]

112. stupid and being very inconsiderate?

yes, they must stay home. not visit relatives, not travel for work. it is far more important that privileged travelers don't have their flight disturbed.

I don't understand where this attitude, that people are ENTITLED to a child-free flight comes from. I don't like it when I end up sitting next to fat people who, without even trying, spill over into my personal space on the airplane (or a bus or the subway)--but I am not under a delusion that my discomfort is anything besides precisely that--my discomfort--that I should try my best to cope with graciously for this finite period of time.

[high density]

157. Well when you pump out the kids

Certain things change.

We're not entitled to a 'child free' flight, but it is expected by both the passengers and crew that the kids can behave themselves (or at least the parents control them) for the flight. If everybody went through a flight screaming at the top of their lungs then air travel would not work.

[nodehopper]

209. yes, but parents can't always control their kids

flying is stressful; toddlers don't like to sit still and don't always do well in new environments, they get overstimulated, there are biological forces at work that even the best nurture can't always control.

[Zhade]

211. I don't understand where people get the idea that they're entitled to let their kids run wild.

They're not.

[nodehopper]

226. my response wasn't to the OP's article

but to all the messages on this thread complaining about crying children or screaming infants. It's not always possible to make a child stop crying. The end.

[jberryhill]

187. I flew Frankfurt to New Delhi in front of an uncomfortable baby...

We are human. We have children. Deal.

Earplugs and a sleep mask do wonders.

[LostinVA]

68. I personally prefer "ankle biters"

These kids weren't babies or very young toddlers, they were old enough to at least keep their seats. AND CP IS NOT AN EMOTIONAL/MENTAL/BEHAVIORAL CONDITION.

My sister and I never acted liike that, nor did my niece and nephew.

[slackmaster]

70. My mom calls them "curtain climbers"

:D

[liberal renegade]

156. crumb snatchers.

[DrDan]

85. How old were they?

[LostinVA]

100. They were all school aged

[DrDan]

154. how do you know that

I have seen a claim of the autisic boy being 10. The picture of the CP girl shows here to be around 4 in my view.

[LostinVA]

197. She was 7 -- all the articles I read said that

The video showed all of the children. And, four-years-old is old enough to act semi-calm for a flight from Detroit to Phoenix.

[DrDan]

198. I agree if there are no other circumstances - like CP at play

I read several articles as well - and never saw the children's ages listed. If you saw that - I would appreciate a link.

[LostinVA]

225. CP should not affect a child's ability to behave

[DrDan]

230. you would think - however please note the following from an earlier post of mine

"behavioral problems and cerebral palsy are usually correlating, depending on the degree of mental retardation in the patient. "

http://www.cerebralpalsysource.com/About_CP/behavioral_...

******************

"Because the symptoms of cerebral palsy can cause behavioral and emotional problems"

http://www.treatmentofcerebralpalsy.com/01-behavioralth...

*************

"Children with cerebral palsy sometimes develop behavioral or emotional problems. These problems may require special treatments, such as behavioral modification (structured programs for changing behavior) and/or individual and family counseling."

http://www.faqs.org/health/Sick-V1/Cerebral-Palsy.html

[DrDan]

89. hmmmmmm

"behavioral problems and cerebral palsy are usually correlating, depending on the degree of mental retardation in the patient. "

http://www.cerebralpalsysource.com/About_CP/behavioral_cp/index.html

******************

"Because the symptoms of cerebral palsy can cause behavioral and emotional problems"

http://www.treatmentofcerebralpalsy.com/01-behavioraltherapy.html

*************

"Children with cerebral palsy sometimes develop behavioral or emotional problems. These problems may require special treatments, such as behavioral modification (structured programs for changing behavior) and/or individual and family counseling."

http://www.faqs.org/health/Sick-V1/Cerebral-Palsy.html

[LostinVA]

101. WTF? CP doesn't cause mental retardation

My friend and relative with CP are totally "normal."

And, I doubt the woman's claim her daughter has CP. The kid was literally running all over the airport.

[uppityperson]

121. Local person has CP, gets around well except for ft drag and hand contraction.

There are degrees and variations. Spastic type can affect 1 side of body (hemiplegia), 1 half of body (diplegia), all 4 limbs (quadriplegia).

[DrDan]

152. I believe the references I provided state a correlation

between CP and behavior and emotional problems. Not mental retardation.

However, please note this - "Approximately 65 percent of individuals with cerebral palsy will have mental difficulties or mental retardation. Of those, roughly one-third are classified as mildly impaired and the other third are moderately to severely impaired"

http://www.originsofcerebralpalsy.com/03-conditions/11-mental.html


CP is any one of a number of neurological disorders. The fact that one with CP is "totally normal" does not mean that is true for everyone with CP.


(Note - the DR in screen name does not imply a medical doctor. I do not want to be accused of playing one.)

[LeftishBrit]

216. True; but sometiimes a brain injury at or before birth causes both.

Many people with CP don't have mental handicaps or behavioural problems; but such problems *are* commoner in children with CP than in the general population, because they share some of the same causes.

[uppityperson]

118. All children sometimes develop behavioral or emotional problems

These problems may require special treatments, such as behavioral modification (structured programs for changing behavior) and/or individual and family counseling.

[DrDan]

151. such as children with CP

Of course they do. I was responding to a post where the poster claimed CP children do not experience behavioral or emotional problems.

[Captain Hilts]

219. In the navy community, we were all called "house apes." nt

[Ilsa]

125. Thanks Dr. Dan. Anyone who can't handle the crying should wear earplugs, IMO. nt

[DrDan]

155. I agree - time for adult to be adults

Be prepared for life events like this.

This is supposedly a site for progressives. You would think that would include compassion for children - PARTICULARLY children with disabilities.

This reads more like a self-centered free republic thread. Don't invade my space. Don't bother me. Don't cross the boundaries of my life. Good Lord - don't these posters have a thread of compassion for children with disabilities?????

[wtmusic]

8. Let the kids have the run of the cabin

A bucket of water balloons would have kept them occupied.

[Demobrat]

12. I'm flying Southwest from now on.

I too am sick of lazy parents who think once they're on board an airplane they can safely ignore their children. On my last flight there was a couple with two little brats who fought and screamed the whole way. Guess what - the parents thought ahead and brought noise blocker headphones - for themselves. Everybody had to listen to the screaming - except them. So I'm totally with the airline on this.

[kiva]

18. I knew there was a reason I prefer to fly on Southwest...n/t

[slackmaster]

19. There are ways of keeping challenging children calm without using force

[LisaM]

20. They must have been really, really unruly

I have flown with kids that are somewhat disruptive and annoying, so if the problem rose to the level of having to kick them off the flight, it must have been bad.

I don't think I'm imagining that kids are more out of control than they used to be. When my sister and I were little, we were good. We could entertain ourselves for hours as long as we had books and things to draw with (we didn't need fancy electronics, either). Kids don't seem to be able to do this anymore. Of course, we would have had consequences for misbehaving in public, but we didn't really need them because we didn't feel the need to disrupt. It no longer seems the norm to remove disruptive kids. I've seen them having tantrums in stores, for example, and the parents keep right on shopping! We always went grocery shopping with our mother or grandmother, and we didn't kick and scream the whole time. We also didn't need to be bribed by eating or drinking and then expecting the clerk to ring up an empty wrapper (I know it's a little off topic, but I was in a hotel the other day making a reservation, and a family, parents included, all stepped up (interrupting me, I might add, instead of waiting) and held up wrappers of four ice cream treats they were already EATING!)

If the mother herself can't exercise control, it's no surprise her kids act that way.

[pnwmom]

35. One of these children has autism, a severe behavioral disorder.

It can't be compared to any situation that you had growing up.

[LisaM]

38. I was just speaking in general terms

What I said was that in general kids seem to be more disruptive than they used to. I was comparing us to kids in general, not this child who may or may not (according to one poster, the disorder morphed from short attention span to autism) be autistic.

Again, they must have been really disruptive, because I've seen plenty of exuberant behavior from kids on planes with nary a word said.

[bigworld]

167. The mother SAYS he has autism.

[LostinVA]

69. Great post -- agree completely

My sister and I didn't act like that, nor did my niece and nephew. Even the mother says the kids were out of control, so I expect it was Bedlam!

[Igel]

23. I've flown while my kid was acting up.

Warsaw to Houston can be a long flight.

When he--or others--have screamed from ear pain, I've seen the flight attendants just ignore it. As I asked when signing the lease for where we live now, "We have a kid, he cries at night, is that a problem?" "Babies cry, that's what they do."

I've seen kids doing a bit of running and seat kicking, also ignored. Passengers were upset, but the attendants' attitude is that it comes with the territory--some kids are perfectly behaved, some aren't, and the range of tolerable behavior runs from perfect to just this side of intolerable.

To be asked twice to control your kid ... wow.

But I agree--maybe sitting them down, telling them they will all be seated together (moving other people around on the second flight, if necessary) and if the kids are up for any reason than going to the bathroom, or if they disturb the people in adjacent rows, then the kids and parents under discussion will simply be tied down and gagged--all of them, not just the kids.

[diddlysquat]

24. Who in the world flies from

Detroit to Phoenix to get to Seattle????? There are easier ways to go from Detroit to Seattle aren't there?

[Sabriel]

26. That's Southwest's hub, isn't it?

I flew Chicago to Phoenix to Tampa once, for the same reason.

If you don't have a lot of money, you take what you can get.

[pokercat999]

59. I was asked to go by way of Buffalo but I thought that

a train, car or even a horse would be better.


sorry..........:evilgrin: no I'm not, just a little tired maybe.

[Lifetimedem]

182. I would have bought you lunch

Real Buffalo wing

[pokercat999]

191. Sorry veggies only here, maybe a FAKE buffalo wing.

[slackmaster]

27. Someone who can afford to fly on Southwest but not on Alaska Airlines?

People who have limited budgets often end up flying through the major hubs of airlines.

There is an old joke about going to Heaven or Hell - Either way you have to change planes in Atlanta.

[mnhtnbb]

28. Cheap tickets.

[RamboLiberal]

30. Stupid Airlines do - Amazing how out of the way they will fly you

So what should've been a trip of a couple of hours turns in to a day-long if you're lucky trip. If you're unlucky it turns in to more than a day!

[high density]

43. People who choose the lowest fare above anything else

Which seems to fit these folks perfectly.

[Sabriel]

82. Sometimes "folks" don't have any choice

Ever tried to get tickets for that many people without much money?

[dysfunctional press]

48. it's called a hub and spoke system.

it's how the american air system has operated for a LONG time.

[DarthDem]

142. Well . . .

Yes, but that's oversimplifying the question, apart from the unneeded sarcasm. Most of us get how it works.

Southwest operates uniquely from the other major carriers in terms of where it flies and how it structures its flights and connections. In fact, the "hub and spoke" metaphor is completely inapposite with regard to Southwest.

More to the point, a Southwest schedule I have on hand (I'm a frequent flier) lists five non-Saturday flights from DTW to SEA and five Saturday flights - - the line's current schedule has almost completely different arrangements on Saturdays, across the board, than it has for the other days of the week. Only one of the ten flights goes through Phoenix, and it's one of the Saturday ones, so they run it only once a week. The other (and much more commonly used) connecting cities on the route are Chicago, Kansas City, and Denver.

[Retrograde]

97. cheapest fare?

My sister and friends recently flew Buffalo->Atlanta->Seattle (and not on Delta) because the person arranging the trip went for the lowest fare. I fly SFO ->BUF a few times a year, and the lowest fare often goes via Charlotte, NC. I'm in a situation to pay a few dollars more to save time, so I usually go for a more direct route.

The cheapest fare was once San Francisco to Los Angeles to (after a 5 hour delay) Denver to (another lengthy delay) to Chicago on the redeye to Buffalo. I thought it was worth $70 more not to spend the additional 22 hours in airports or on planes, but not everyone has that luxury.

[mnhtnbb]

25. It's tough to have kids with medical problems--BUT they don't belong

on a full plane (and Southwest is usually jam packed)if their behavior is beyond control. Sorry.
It's tough--even with normal kids--to fly. But the rest of the passengers don't expect to be
subjected to a couple of hours or more of uncontrollable kids.

[Ilsa]

109. What should families with disabled kids do?

Really, I'd like to know. I have a child like this. We don't go anywhere, either. I take my vacation, four days once every three years, separate from my husband. Driving for three days to see relatives halfway across the country doesn't work well either.

[kestrel91316]

33. Years ago I flew LAX to Chicago at Christmas on American? or United?

We were delayed hours on the ground due to weather there, and a toddler across the aisle from me was restless and then unruly and then a hysterical screeching MANIAC. For HOURS. When we finally got clearance to leave the gate, the parents were repeatedly and at great length asked to quiet their child, SIT HER DOWN AND BELT HER IN, and get her under control.

After about two hours of this crap where the parents whined and fussed and failed to make anything resembling an effort to control the child (the pilot refused to back out of the gate until the child was belted in), the flight attendents told them if they didn't get her in her seat they would be asked to leave. They still didn't. All the time the little girl is running up and down the aisle, screaming and yelling and having the longest temper tantrum I have ever seen.

Finally the captain himself came back and told them to sit the child down. They argued and fussed and would not control the child, so the pilot called security (the parents became assholishly abusive) and they were ordered off the plane. All the other passengers CHEERED when they left.

We got to Chicago so late I missed my connection to Milwaukee.

[pnwmom]

36. You were delayed for hours on the ground, and a toddler

had a meltdown.

I'd have wanted to have a meltdown, too, if I'd been delayed for hours.

[kestrel91316]

37. Yep. We were ALL pretty much at the ends of our wits just with the weather

delay. The kid put everyone on the plane at the brink of homicidal.

[pnwmom]

73. The child actually had a normal, predictable reaction to a huge stress.

I wonder if a planeload of passengers will ever revolt after several hours of sitting on a hot tarmac? Would they all be put in jail?

[kestrel91316]

96. Actually, the child appeared to be a spoiled brat, as evidenced by the

parents complete failure to attempt to assert ANY meaningful control over her. They truly didn't give a damn that she had every other passenger on the plane about to go ballistic. And they basically refused to seat her after they "told her nice" and she didn't comply. My parents would have PICKED ME UP AND STRAPPED ME IN.

[krabigirl]

130. Um...the kid was a toddler.

[kestrel91316]

173. You had to be there. There was a MAJOR problem with the parents

failing to even attempt to control the child. They literally let her run up and down the aisle screaming for a couple of hours, even when told they were delaying the flight for others by not controlling her.

I have been flying for decades. I have seen just about every kind of child behavior imaginable on a plane and this was 100x worse than anything I have ever seen before or since. And I have seen many toddlers fuss on planes.

[krabigirl]

129. Seriously. It's obvious the poster doesn't have kids. A toddler - hello?!

Toddlers have meltdowns - deal.

I've flown on plenty of flights with loud kids, and this was pre-kids. I always preferred the kids to many of the uptight, jerky adults.

[knitter4democracy]

237. When that happened on a flight I was on, I got out my frog puppet.

Distracted the toddler, she and I played silly puppet jokes for awhile, and she settled down. Distraction can work wonders in kids.

[Scout]

242. so why don't the PARENTS distract them then? n/t

[knitter4democracy]

243. They do, but it doesn't always work.

They already know all of Mommy's and Daddy's tricks, so sometimes it takes someone else to help out.

[happygoluckytoyou]

39. fuckin Autistic kid ruined it for everyone else....

when they going to finally change the law so those goddamn autistic kids and retards and the like stay the shit out of my way...
smokers too.... fucking up the air i breathe with their goddamn smoke...
and people who are overweight.... fat fucks sitting in their chair with their big arms touching mine...
and smelly people... people eating foods that smell... fucking smelly food eating fucks smelling up my air...
and gassy people too... passing gas and all that...
and people with phones... talking loud when i want quiet...

damn human scums getting in my pretty damn important way!!!!

[high density]

42. Yeah, damn it for expecting parents to control their kids

It's much better to have loud chaos on a plane, because everybody loves that.

[happygoluckytoyou]

60. why argue with me..... i said the bastard kid was at fault

[kiranon]

62. Why such language about a child with a disability?

As posted earlier, I hope the karma you sent out today does not come out and bite you when you have children or grandchildren. I have 2 autistic children and life is very hard for them and for us. Neither one is a bastard. They are beautiful, loving children who will have a hard time in this world. Thank you for your understanding. Autism is occurring at an alarming rate and soon you too will know someone with autism and perhaps find some compassion along the way. I'm not asking anyone to fly with them but please do not damn them.

[Ilsa]

107. I have an autistic kid. It isn't that easy to know how they

are going to react in a new situation or to control them. Benadryl makes alot of them hyperactive. The only "safe" thing to do is not go. Soooo, this family won't have a long trip for years, if ever.

[MrsBrady]

44. did it occur to anyone

to say

"hey, how can I help?" passengers or flight attendants?

instead of "shut the hell up?" - where is the humanity?

I thought we were all Democrats here?

[high density]

45. Erm, why is it our or the crew's responsibility to parent another person's children?

If the parents can't shut them up, how is a stranger going to do it?

[MrsBrady]

47. so what, are you saying...

Being nice and friendly....you know, maybe they needed some help.

So what, being helpful is out of the question?

on edit: article says it was their first flight.
Maybe they didn't know how stressful flying could be.

I have enough of a hard time staying sane on a plane...and it's just me...no kids!

[kiranon]

63. Autistic children respond well to calmness but not to anger.

I thought Democrats believed in being their brother's keeper. I guess not. So what is the difference between the democrats and the republicans if no one cares?

[pnwmom]

76. Have you ever heard "it takes a village"?

I agree with Mrs. Brady. There's a lot of intolerance for children around here. That seems to be one of the groups that it's still okay to disparage.

[high density]

158. Give me a break

I can just imagine going up to some low life's kids and telling them to quiet down. It's not going to work and would likely bring unfriendly comments from the otherwise oblivious parents and make me even more pissed off.

The passengers on a plane, people in a restaurant, etc expect a certain level of calmness from the kids that parents bring along. If the kids can't settle down then don't put them in these public situations, period.

[pnwmom]

161. Nope, that's not what I'm suggesting. All I'm suggesting is that people

have some compassion and model their own good behavior. And expect to occasionally encounter children with autism and other disorders out in the world. They're not being kept in institutions any longer, but with families who have lives and other people to visit.

I don't know what these kids actually did, do you? But I have read of cases where a mother was kicked off because her seated two year old wouldn't stop quietly repeating "bye bye plane." So I don't have infinite confidence in the wisdom of every single flight attendant in dealing with children. (The vast majority perform admirably and exercise thoughtful judgment but we don't know the particulars of this case.)

[Tansy_Gold]

51. There is also a level of paranoia --

I once offered to watch a small child (sleeping, in a baby carrier) in an airport while the mother checked a stand-by at the counter, which was no more than ten feet away. The mother gave me a dirty look and snatched the child away, as though fearful I might be a sexual predator or kidnapper or something. I've never again volunteered to help a stranger for fear my motives might be misunderstood and I find myself in security custody having to explain my "generosity."

A few months back I flew a late-evening flight from ORD to PHX with three disruptive 3-year-olds on the flight and a neurotic annoying 7-year-old "kicker" behind me. I had a window seat, with one of the 3 year olds in the seat next to me. While his mother -- who spoke no English -- slept in the aisle seat, the boy climbed all over me, the seat in front of us, on the floor. He tried to get into my purse, shoved garbage into the magazine pockets, dropped bits of torn paper on the people seated in front of us. flight attendants repeatedly told the mother to belt the child in -- she just shook her head not understanding, and the FAs couldn't touch the child to restrain him.

Another of the children was a screamer who refused to be belted in. Seated on the other side of the aisle from me between her two morbidly obese parents, she screamed and yelled through the entire flight except when her father gave her his cell phone to play with. FAs had to repeatedly tell him to turn the cell phone off in flight. He ignored them.

The third 3-year-old sat several rows in front and pretty much screamed through the entire flight.

As desperate as I was to get out of freezing snowy Chicago and back to Phoenix, I'd have gladly turned around in the first hour or so to get rid of these children. Halfway through the flight I turned around and told Mr. 7 -- who was constantly whining to his mother that he was afraid about being so high up in the air and not being able to see the ground (it was night and dark outside) -- that he needed to keep his feet to himself and stop kicking me. His mother sniffed as though to say "Well, I never!" But he stopped kicking.

If I go into a restaurant and there is a screaming child who is throwing food or running around and pestering strangers, I expect the management to tell the parents to get the child under control or leave. The same is true for an airliner. People need to understand BEFORE they board the plane that they will be expected to exercise reasonable control over their children and that if they can't, they will be asked to make other transportation arrangements -- at their own expense.

[LanternWaste]

58. That hadn't occurred to me

" for fear my motives might be misunderstood and I find myself in security custody having to explain my generosity."

Too true. That hadn't occurred to me in this thread, but thinking about it, I do tend to find myself consciously not getting too friendly when a co-workers brings their kid into the office for that very reason...

Sometimes I think the mores and social codes of this brave, new world are getting too complex for a guy like me. lol

[LanternWaste]

56. Probably not.

Probably not. Unfortunate. And I hate to say that were I present, I most likely would not have even attempted to assist-- and having said that, I'm none too proud of myself about it, so I hang my head in shame... x(


"I thought we were all Democrats here?"
Thinking about it I don't believe it should make a difference whether we're Democrats, Republics or a member of the Bull Goose party-- it should be a collective human habit to help out when we can, regardless of party, nationality, or any other thing we label ourselves with. Sometimes it seemsw like it is. Other times, not so much...

[enlightenment]

71. How do you know that no one offered?

Pretty broad sweep of your brush.

There are a BOATLOAD of parents out there who think "it takes a village" means that the village has to tolerate their brats' behaviour while they blithely ignore it. It doesn't mean that they would allow anyone to so much as look at their kid, much less suggest they cease and desist. It's a one-way street. Love my kid - or else.

I've offered to assist parents with out-of-control kids in public places and have more than once been shot down for my efforts. "Don't need help" "If you have a problem with my child, why don't you just leave?" "who the hell do you think you are, trying to tell me how to raise my kid?"

All that for offering to HELP. Distract them; help clean up a spill; find a missing toy . . . Not yelling, cursing or telling them to "shut the hell up."

I've got plenty of humanity, lady - but there are a lot of very selfish and self-absorbed parents out there who think the sun shines out of their little darling's arse. There are also a lot of parents who will gratefully accept help.

I strongly suspect someone offered to help these women, because there IS a lot of humanity out there. I'd be willing to bet, though, that mom and auntie told them to mind their own business.

[superconnected]

46. 1. They shouldn't have left them stranded, 2. They should have kicked them off the flight and told

them they can fly when their kids stop being unruly. I'm not against sending dead beat parents a bill. Sure kids cry, but they don't run up and down the aisles etc unless they have a dead beat parent that allows that. I only worked at 2 daycares and 1 elementary school, in my younger years.

[LanternWaste]

49. While the policy may or may not have been reasonable

While the policy may or may not have been reasonable, I imagine I could tolerate some unruly kids for a flight-- I've done it on a long bus trip so I imagine I could do it in an airplane.

Maybe I can ignore people easier than some can-- even the loud ones.

That being said, I do think there was a moral burden on SW Airlines to lodge and reschedule the family (which doesn't rule out any burdens of responsibility on the parents, of which there always are many).

[LostinVA]

66. GOOD -- unsafe and unfair

And, if even the mother is saying they were out of control, imagine how bad they were.

Give 'em Benadryl, unless they're allergic to it, and strap 'em in.


(Southwest should have given them assistance in some way.)

[Jack_DeLeon]

77. I'd hate to be locked up in a confined place totally without any control and having rowdy people...

making the situation even more worse.

[Seedersandleechers]

81. I was traveling with an infant from KC to Tampa

The entire flight my baby cried non-stop. Nothing I could do would pacify him including giving him a bottle, breast feeding, or a pacifier. I felt so bad for the other people on the flight-but what was I to do? I did not have any idea my baby would cry like that, and yes he might have had extreme pressure in his ears but still. The interesting part of that trip was that I sat right beside Hulk Hogan.

[LostinVA]

84. Babies can't help something like that -- older kids should behave

Even kids with autism. I've known lots of children wirth this condition, and they don't act like hellions, even when they are rampaging.

[kiranon]

131. Nonsense! Autism is a spectrum disorder - it varies with each child.

If you have seen one autistic child then you only know one autistic child's response. Any one with any knowledge whatsoever about autism can fill you in on tantrums these children can have (not all of them but many of them).

[Retrograde]

102. I have no problem with infants

they're to young to know any better. Older children, though, I hold to different standards. I'd rather have a fussy baby than the twelve-year-old I sat next to recently who sprawled, occupying his entire seat as well as part of his father's and mine. Yes, I had a word with him.

I get bored on long flights too, but I'm old enough to entertain myself quietly.

[Hannah Bell]

122. how did hh react to the noise?

[Seedersandleechers]

135. Very calm,

not bothered at all. He acted like a gentleman. Also, that was about the time he had several young children himself.

[marshall]

174. Noise is one thing, these kids were a danger to the flight

A screaming baby is not pleasant, but it's not going to bring the plane down. Four kids rampaging through the plane, possibly opening escape windows or doors or knocking down serving carts or pushing over elderly people trying to get to the rest room, or blocking the aisles in case the flight attendants have to get somewhere quickly--that is not acceptable.
There are ways to prepare for a flight. I just got back from a cross country flight by myself with a 2 year old. I walked him all over the airport to make sure he was tired by the time we got on the plane and I also waited to feed him his milk until the flight started so he was involved with eating and that helped his ears stay adjusted to the changing pressure.
This woman sounds like she just should not have been traveling with her brood. It sounds like she was having to tend to the child with CP and could not keep the other three from their on flight rampage. It doesn't sound like the pregnant relative was any help either. It's tough but families have to make adjustments to situations and she should have just stayed home or found another way to travel. A crying baby can be tolerated, but she doesn't have the right to endanger everyone else on that plane as well as her own children.

[cliss]

92. Re: unruly kids.

I disagree with the suggestions listed above. Why do we have to give our kids booze to calm them down? Or Valium? Or medication of any kind?

What the parents should have done, before the flight, was to take the kids on a LONG hike. Or make sure they did some physical exertion to wear themselves out before taking the plane.
Or, the parent could have made sure the kids didn't get anything to eat for a few hours before the plane took off. Then, right before the plane leaves, give them a BIG meal, something really filling like porridge or some type of casserole.
Then, they will be tired and sit quietly during the flight.

I'm speaking from experience here. When my 3 kids were younger, I would take them on a REALLY long walk, make sure it was outdoors. Get lots of fresh air. Don't eat too much. Then, when it was time to go, the kids actually snoozed on the plane. My co-passengers loved me.



Autistic and cerebral palsy?
There's something wrong here. I thought these kids were typically quiet.

This whole story seems dysfunctional to me.

[hedgehog]

104. My husband and I sat in the passenger lounge at Newark and watched

a father play with his toddler and walk him around for a good hour or so. When we boarded the plane, we didn't hear a peep out of the kid.

[EFerrari]

140. Some autistic kids can get quite frantic when their routine is disrupted

or when there's too much stimulus in their environment.

I wonder exactly how tired that mom was. :(

[renate]

144. yeah, and maybe the other kids picked up on that

My neighbors have an autistic daughter, and at 16 she will still flip out, all the way up to eleven, at the slightest provocation. She's a total sweetheart, absolutely a heart of gold, and I love her dearly, but she has to be handled with velvet gloves or she has a tantrum. I feel awful for her parents and the stress they have to deal with on an hourly basis, let alone daily, so I'm guessing that this child's mom was beyond exhausted... especially since traveling with children is almost always a horrible experience.

And having paid my dues as a parent of young children, I'm totally not bothered by the regular behavior of kids--noise, crying, whatever. I'm not particularly fond of screaming, but I don't resent it, either. Kids scream. Every adult who thinks they deserve a scream-free flight screamed as a child, I have no doubt.

So I sympathize with the mother, I honestly do, but judging from the flights I've been on, on which nothing was done about unruly children (unruly for whatever reason), these kids must have really been making the flight untenable for the other passengers. I wonder whether Southwest had any choice. I hope that kicking them off the flight wasn't a punishment for the kids' behavior, just a way of making the flight safe and endurable for the other passengers.

And for parents of kids who are likely to act up, I think "traveling with children" zones, just like there used to be smoking zones on airplanes, would be a good idea.

[EFerrari]

146. Resolving a safety issue or even a behavioral issue

by asking the family to leave is one thing. Dumping them in a strange city with no notice and no options is unacceptable. The airline has since refunded them but, oh my god, what a stupid and uncivil way for a major airline to behave.

[LeftyMom]

196. I had a long flight with LeftyKid when he was two, so I kept him up real late the night before.

I had books, snacks, etc along for while he was awake, but mostly he slept, and this was CA to OH with a layover, so not a short trip.

But I don't take him places where I can't reasonably expect him to behave. He just had his first trip to the regular theater last week (he's seven) because I wasn't positive he'd sit quietly until then.

[MadMaddie]

116. One of the children is autistic. Another has cerebral palsy.

Don't businesses have to accomodate the disabled. An infant will be uncomfortable with the pressure in it's ears, a disabled child who has not experienced the sensation would be uncomfortable too.

They should have a plan when families have disabled children or adults.

Are the airliines that lazy that they can't come up with a plan.

Southwest packs passengers in like sardines, who wouldn't be anxious.

No don't get me wrong I would not have wanted to be there but in my mind there has to be a better way to deal with this.

[New Dawn]

120. But many or most planes have special seating areas for wealthy customers

I.e. "first class", yet nothing for the disabled. That speaks volumes about this society...

[EFerrari]

139. Bingo.

If those kids could have boarded first and into a quiet area, this whole thing probably could have been avoided. I used to have to board my husband that way. He was exactly the same way.

[DarthDem]

143. Southwest Doesn't

No first class, no business class. A lot of people posting on this thread seem to be missing some key points due to a lack of understanding that Southwest is a unique airline.

[EFerrari]

145. Those seats are bolted down and can be re-arranged.

That's the point. Southwest is only "unique" insofar as they've decided how they want to arrange their bolts.

[marshall]

180. Not everyone who flies first class is wealthy

Some have just saved their money and choose to travel in more comfort.
They do have special narrow wheelchairs for disabled passengers to board. Don't they also allow service animals on board at no extra charge?

[jberryhill]

188. Actually...

Most of them are frequent fliers who travel for business and get free upgrades from the airline. I've flown first class about ten times this year on a coach fare.

[MadMaddie]

208. Yes it does..

[Fumesucker]

132. One point that has not been made here..

When I was a child, if you were unruly you got a hard smack or three on the buttocks.. With "normal" children that works wonders but cannot be done today without risking having your children taken away and yourself imprisoned, particularly somewhere like on an airliner with a hundred others watching.

One of the reasons children today are less well behaved in general is that punishment options for parents have been severely curtailed.

My younger brother was (and still is at 53) ADHD and nearly drove both me and my parents out of our minds.. I was quiet and reserved and he bounced off walls, ceilings, you name it. Seriously, the only thing that would shut him up even temporarily was the threat of imminent bodily harm backed by the knowledge that the threat would be made good if his behavior did not change. I'm lucky, neither my child nor my grandchildren are like my younger brother so I do not have to futilely search for a solution to that particular dilemma.

Kids don't bother me if I have an enjoyable book, I can make the world go away with no problem. Screaming, what screaming? And I have always made sure to have a book when I fly.

Yes, I know that using physical pain on someone so much smaller than you is not really ethical , but sometimes there is simply no other solution, particularly in a situation where the behavior might put the child in danger.

[EFerrari]

138. Too bad parents can't smack autistic children any more.

OMFG.

[Fumesucker]

153. What part of "normal" children do you fail to understand?

I wasn't talking about autistic children, I was talking about non autistic kids that are out of control.

[PA Democrat]

218. Unbelievable, isn't it?

Silly me, if only I'd known you could beat autism out of a child. BTW, I wonder where all the cured kids are because sadly, there are parents who DO beat their kids with autism.

[Zhade]

212. What do you propose? A board with a nail, or a cat-o-nine-tails?

I hope you don't have kids.

[Fumesucker]

214. Actually I prefer a bullwhip..

Funny thing is, I'm watching my three grandchildren this summer so that my daughter could take the dream job she managed to land recently. Three kids in daycare would essentially absorb most of her income and make it financially pointless for her to work.

Do you think my daughter and son in law would let me watch my grandchildren if either of them thought I was an abusive person?

There is a line between abuse and some corporal punishment, I had a conversation with my daughter well after she had her own children and asked her if she thought I had ever unfairly punished her.. She told me that every time she was spanked she both deserved and needed it. By no means was it a daily, weekly or even monthly happening but she did get spanked on rare occasions.

I remember when I was a kid that I would far rather take a spanking and get the punishment over and done with than get put on restriction for weeks/months at at time.

[Mind_your_head]

133. Everything (most things in fact) are not black-and-white

Finesse, understanding, intuition are key. (Qualities only humans, not corporations, are capable of TRULY understanding ~ not a threat, not a challenge.....just true. Think of how "Data" on the Star Trek series wanted to be fully human. Data had more "human decency", btw than 'corporation', by definition, would EVER possibly muster.

[JNelson6563]

159. Hoo-boy.

There is so much here.....yes, some kids have serious issues and deserve consideration. There are also some parents who are truly terrible parents and couldn't control their ki8ds if their lives depended on it.

Seems to me this situation was a perfect combination of both.

Julie

[sui generis]

164. the funniest part about this thread

is the cavalry, hell infantry and aerial recon of sputtering humorless DU self proclaimed saviors of the poor underdog that think everyone should be as outraged and humorless as they are.

They just don't get that unlike zombies you can't just show up on a thread and bite someone and turn them into an army of more glaze eyed militant humor challenged zombies.

puhshawww. :P

[ContraBass Black]

170. "you can't just show up on a thread and bite someone and turn them into...zombies"

Yes you can. You just have to bite the right people.

[nam78_two]

183. lol

:spray:

[n0nesuch]

165. This doesnt happen often enough...

…and should be applied to theatres, restaurants, etc.

I am sick of spending my hard earned money and be expected to tolerate children of undisciplined parents.

My family had to move tables while dining the other day because a two year old budding Jeffrey Dahmer was stabbing his mother with a fork at another table. This was between blood curdling screams.

[Lifetimedem]

176. People have a responsibility

to have their children under control, especially in public. Imagine being on a flight with out of control children screaming and helpless adults with them.

I do understand them being removed from the flight. They have an obligation to the safety of the other passengers.

That said they should have made some arraignments to get them home, perhaps an overnight flight with only a few passengers (them or another airline)

These parents are fully aware of their children's behavior, I do not think sitting them down and pointing it out would change much .

[question everything]

184. I agree. On the one hand we feel for the family that was stranded

on the other hand, were I a passenger on the plane I would have cheered the airlines.

It is bad enough that are shoved into tight space like cattle and everyone is on edge (and, thank you, FAA for still banning cell phones). Having children screaming during the flight can turn even the most understanding passengers into murderous creatures..

I sympathize with the mother but she will just have to find other ways to travel with her family.

Some sedatives would be out of question, I suppose?

[Taverner]

190. They were DISABLED. Jeez, how can anyone take SW's side in this??

They weren't simply "unruly kids" they were autistic and the other had cerebral palsy.

[hedgehog]

192. It doesn't matter whether the kids are disabled or not. Can you imagine

trying to manuever that beverage cart up and down the aisle and pour coffee with kids running back and forth?

[Taverner]

193. Have the parents subdue them, but this is plain discrimination

[hedgehog]

194. They weren't kicked off because of a disease or condition they have,

they were kicked off because of the way they behaved!

[Taverner]

195. Ask any parent of an autistic child how easy it is to control their kid

[hedgehog]

199. If she couldn't control her child, she shouldn't have brought him onto the plane.

We still have no information about the Phoenix to Seattle leg of the trip. Did the child's autism magically resolve overnight?

[Taverner]

200. That's just cold - so Autistic children should never fly?

[hedgehog]

205. Anyone who is not capable of sitting down and strapping in as instructed

should not fly.

On edit: and that includes the jerk who wouldn't shut down his electronics when asked repeatedly on the last flight I was on. If you want to argue tht your electronics will not cause a problem with the plane, fine. Get off the plane and argue with the people at the ticket counter.

[Robb]

207. FINALLY!

THIS is exactly the broader issue here. I wish I could recommend a single post.

It doesn't matter what condition causes the effect -- poor parenting or a disability or just being a jerk -- the result is the same: you're out of compliance with the rules of being there. The rules governing behavior in some places -- such as an airplane -- are quite old, well-tested and sound.

If your sister, for example, cannot be trusted to be on the White House tour without yelling "I"M GONNA KILL EVERYONE HERE!!!" then guess what, she should not be allowed in.

SWA's PR department should have taken over and gotten the parents a refund, alternate transport, and what-not. But the move was correct, if the flight crew's assessment is to be believed.

[LeftishBrit]

240. Autistic children's behaviour is not necessarily consistent

They may be 'set off' by things that could be quite minor to other people.

In fact, while autistic children vary, they are more likely to show periods of relatively normal behaviour interrupted by 'meltdowns' when they can't cope with something, rather than consistently unruly behaviour.

I'm not necessarily even blaming the airline for putting them off the plane until I know more about it, as it could have been a real safety issue. But it seems unfair to treat it as a case of parents just not controlling a naughty child.

[marshall]

201. I figured she was tending to the autistic and CP kids and the other two were wreaking havoc

The article doesn't say it was the two special needs kids who were causing the problems (though it doesn't rule it out either).

Maybe the other two kids are angry at how much attention their siblings are getting and they act out to punish their mother.

[marshall]

202. I'm amazed that people will go on television and prove themselves to be such idiots

It reminds me of the family who made all the morning news shoes after their toddler daughter ran around the house with a screwdriver in her hand and rammed it into her skull but luckily avoided any serious brain damage. Do these people like advertising their own shameful inability to properly parent their children? It's not enough that their family and unfortunate onlookers know what fools they are--something drives them to tell the entire country that they thoughtlessly put their children's lives (and the lives of others) in danger.

[lumberjack_jeff]

206. Fuck Southwest.

Worst. Goddamn. Airline. Ever.

[Zhade]

210. Considering Southwest skipped 30 MONTHS OF SAFETY CHECKS, this family should feel lucky.

I'll NEVER fly that fucked-up airline. No way.

[apnu]

221. Do any of you siding with Southwest understand what CP or Autism is?

The family says they were asked twice by flight attendants to quiet the children but they didn’t expect to be denied travel. It was the family’s first flight. One of the children is autistic. Another has cerebral palsy.

"laying down the law" "I'm on Southwest's side"

Jesus. Fucking. Christ people! One of the kids has cerebral palsy and the other is autistic Yeah its disturbing and annoying to deal with children with mental disorders on the plane but imagine what life is like for those parents every day.

I'd side with Southwest if the children were normal but unruly, that's just a sign of shitty parents. But this is not the case! I can't believe there are so many so called liberals and progressives on this board who'd react this way. How the hell do you "lay down the law" on an autistic person? Even more a child? People who make those comments obviously don't have kids, of if they do, they aren't aware of them.

[slackmaster]

222. It doesn't matter what medical conditions the children have

Their behavior presented a real danger to everyone on the plane. The children had to be removed from the plane.

What Southwest did or failed to do to help those people after that is a valid subject for discussion.

[apnu]

223. Really? you were there witnessing this real danger?

According to the article they were "unruly" in other words noisy and annoying. I fail to see how unruly translates into a "real danger" They're children for crying out loud. Furthermore, the cops on the scene thought it was bullshit too, since they chipped in to help out the family after Soutwest decided to be pricks about the thing.

But this is what we get in our fear-based society. The terrorists won, we're good and terrorized now, scared of our own shadows.

[marshall]

224. According to eyewitnesses....

"McElroy said the children kept moving around when the seatbelt sign was on. He also said the kids were shouting, going up and down the aisle being disruptive."

http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=8917fae9-b0c5-462b-bbe2-ff2890c873ee

He also says he had never experienced anything like that flight in all his years of flying. It must have been truly horrible--and shame on that mother for putting those children through that. Hopefully she will plan better for her next vacation.

Passengers MUST stay in their seats while the seatbelt light is on. It was up to the mother to make sure her children remained in their seats and did not roam about the plane. Had there been some kind of problem with the flight the attendants could have been blocked from their duties by the children.

Shouting and screaming can be tolerated, but these children posed a safety violation.

This reminds me of when I went to see the last Pirates of the Caribbean movie. A family had brought in a child that looked to be 10 or 12 months old. The child would lull off to sleep during the quiet times and then when a fight scene happened the child would scream wildly. Then he would lull off to sleep again only to be awakened and terrified when the next loud fight scene started. This was annoying for the rest of us, but it was sheer torture to the child. Those parents might as well have sneaked up and screamed "boo" at it everytime it went to sleep. In the same sense this mother had no business subjecting her children to a multi-leg flight with no preparation and not enough support to help keep the children in line.

[slackmaster]

229. The article I read said the children refused to take their seats and fasten their seat belts

Did you read a different version? Were you there yourself?

Would you want to be on a plane in flight with an unsecured person in the cabin? I sure wouldn't.

Federal law requires passengers to comply with instructions given by the crew. Newton's First Law of Motion can be stated as "A particle will stay at rest or continue at a constant velocity unless acted upon by an external unbalanced force."

[nodehopper]

227. WHAT DANGER?

[slackmaster]

228. A person who is not seat-belted on an aircraft in flight can become a missile

Such a person poses an OBVIOUS danger to self and others, just as any object that is not secured. There is a very good reason that carry-on luggage has to be stowed under a seat or in an overhead bin.

Please review Isaac Newton's First Law of Motion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion

[appleannie1]

232. Raised 7 kids and could take them anywhere, without resorting to meds.

I taught them from a young age how to act in public, taught them manners, and when on long trips, provided them with books and games to entertain themselves. One is mentally retarded and as a child had an attention span of less than a minute. I simply kept him occupied. As a result, I received compliments from restaurant managers, store clerks and strangers on things like airplanes.
Those children must have been running up and down the aisles and carrying on to high heaven if the airline resorted to denying them from boarding another flight.

[Phoonzang]

233. Everyone's focusing on the autistic kid but there were 3

others. Who's to say the autistic one was running up and down the aisles being disruptive? If he was...I'm sorry that the kid was autistic, but I'm not going to pay 500 dollars to be tortured all for hours by being trapped in a small space with out of control kids and I don't want one of them turning into a missile if we hit severe turbulence.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/07/07/dnt.family.off.plane.kiro

[knitter4democracy]

235. And this is why I always travel with a puppet in my carryon.

I did puppet ministry in church for years growing up and have a few still around that my kids play with. When I travelled in college, it was for mission trips, so I had my puppets with me anyway. I found that a soft cuddly puppet in a happy voice calms down most kids. I'd play with them while the parents relaxed, and we'd do silly puppet jokes for as long as I could. I had a flight attendant help move me to the seat in front of a child once, it worked so well.

The problem here was that two of the kids are special needs and were most likely extremely uncomfortable. Autistic kids can have amazingly sensitive hearing, and the noise from the plane itself was probably enough to set him/her off. Once one kid is yelling in pain and frustration, it sets off a chain reaction. Awful situation. Extremely awful.

[AngryOldDem]

238. The dilemma: A family of six vs. a planeload of other passengers.

Easy. The safety and comfort of the planeload of passengers take precedence over the family of six.

To me it's that simple.