WP: Rumsfeld OKs Increase in Army Size

[Newsjock]

From Thursday's Washington Post. No link yet.

Rumsfeld OKs Increase in Army Size
By Bradley Graham
(c) 2004, The Washington Post

WASHINGTON -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, invoking emergency powers, has authorized the Army to grow temporarily by 30,000 troops above its congressionally approved limit of 482,000 to facilitate a restructuring of forces severely strained by operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and counterterrorism missions elsewhere.

The increase, disclosed Wednesday in congressional testimony by Gen. Peter Schoomaker, the Army's chief of staff, surprised members of the House Armed Services Committee, many of whom have been pressing for a larger Army.

Rumsfeld has resisted a permanent increase for months, arguing that a number of efficiency measures and restructuring moves could alleviate some of the stress on U.S. forces. But his approval of a temporary rise -- which does not require congressional action and which Schoomaker said would probably be needed for four years -- appeared to acknowledge that some relief is needed.

... An aide to Schoomaker said after the hearing that the troop increase probably would be achieved through incentives to keep soldiers from leaving once their contracts expire and through ``stop-loss'' orders barring their exit.

more to come

[DemoTex]

1. What a cold, cruel draft I feel.

Nothing like a cold, cruel draft for warming, profitable oil. Mothers, Verb Sap!!

[kellycp]

2. conscription

will never happen again

[MattNC]

4. thank you

some DU'ers seem convinced a draft is coming back despite strong evidence suggesting there's no need for it. ah well...

[salin]

8. No need.... unless this administration takes us into more Wars

which their rhetoric indicates that they would like to do.

I would not want to see a draft.

However, if this administration starts to discuss actually acting on their rhetoric regarding Syrian, Iran, and North Korea - we have to start asking the question of whether or not we have the troops to sustain such efforts - and force the public to think about it - as the administration will treat it flippantly, just as they did the costs of the war (prewar .. "it will pay for itself through oil revenues...") There is a cost to this administrations policies. If they push those agendas we HAVE to ask the question how. Not to push for a draft, but to push for the realities of the polices... less we find ourselves by default requiring a draft due to overcommitment of the military thanks to GWB and co.

[Sugarbleus]

27. This is making me VERY uncomfortable.

Why in heaven's name hasn't that bunch in DC been thrown out on their keester already? ????? :::: ?????

I'm seeing more repubs complaining about their illustrious leader; will they be helpful in stopping our bombing the crap out of every third world nation on earth??? Are you guys saying that if a Dem wins in '04 I STILL have to worry about my teenage boy here?
:scared:

[Just Me]

35. I share your concern,...I don't want to lose my only son,...

,...to a "regime change" policy that is being forced by deception upon the American people.

[marie123]

71. yep

Are you guys saying that if a Dem wins in '04 I STILL have to worry about my teenage boy here?
:scared************************************************************

yes you will. Even if Kerry gets in we still have to finish whatever it was that we started.

Dean, was the man of change. He was/is the only guy talking about turning Iraq over to the UN immediately. The others talk about how we cant just pull out blah blah

So sad, I feel for those moms losing their babies in this ridiculous war/conflict. soon the government will come after ours. Love them now and hold them tight or try. Teenagers don't get into hugging mom to much.

Peace
May your God be with you

[Zhade]

80. Excuse me for interrupting, but you misspoke.

Dean, while I like him and could vote for him, was NOT and is NOT the only guy talking about getting our soldiers out of Iraq. Dennis Kucinich was saying that before Dean, and he wants ALL of the soldiers out.

Just wanted to clear that up.

[Barkley]

29. Sending draftees to Iraq ...

that ought to do wonders for troop morale.

[maxrandb]

91. And Don't Forget Pakistan

Lot's of talk of limited strikes into Pakistan. And they possess Nukes.

I thought the fundies were just kidding about bringing about Armagedden, but the more you see and hear...the scarier it gets

Like Earl Pitts says; "Wake up Amurika"

[atreides1]

14. What Strong Evidence????

There was no need for the war in Iraq, but look what happened. The
budget for the Selective Service was recently increased, so that if a draft becomes necessary, it can be up and running in just 75 days, as
opposed to 8 months, which is how long it will take should the draft
be implemented now.

I volunteered for my local draft board, and I am now waiting to be told when and where the mandatory classes are going to take place.
When I was sworn in by the lady in charge of the board here, I was
informed that right now they are waiting for the money to start
conducting the training classes.

Do you really think that the Army is going to be able to recruit 30,000 troops, they didn't meet their original quota in the last fiscal year, they had to lower the recruiting numbers so that it
looked like the military had mamde their goal, they did, once the
numbers were cut back.

By the way what strong evidence are you referring too. Could you put up a link to this evidence.

[MattNC]

19. i'll post

the links tomorrow but no senior military has said we need one nor do they won't one. and no the SSS budget has not been increased yet.

do i think the army can recruit up to 30,000 extra troops? yes, but i don't think they'll have to, as some of rummy's restructuring plans will likely free up sufficient resources.

some of you don't understand what a monumental change conscription is. the modern u.s. military simply doesn't work that way anymore.

[leesa]

20. Umm...ya think because there's an election coming up?

Of course they will need to draft. You can't have 30 years of war without it. You can't invade Pakistan without it. You can't expect to invade Syria and Iran and Jordan and SA without it. You hope enough people are losing their jobs right now to fill the gap, but it won't. Dream on that Bush won't bring a draft. The senior military people have been lying through their teeth throughtout this tragedy, why should they be believed now?

[MattNC]

23. you've lost your mind

if you honestly think we're invading all those countries.

[kellycp]

47. agreed

[Hell Hath No Fury]

54. You haven't been paying attention...

We've already started plans for military action within Syria's borders against Hizzbohla (sp?).

Read Richard Perle's new tome on just what the neocon's plans are for that region. Read the PNAC reports on their plans for that region. Understand that there are 13 members of the PNAC in the Bush Administration, most at the highest levels.

You have to be crazy to NOT think we very well may be moving militarily through that region.

[kysrsoze]

57. Bravo - call it what it is.

These people are smart, ruthless, and in control. The only thing delaying their plans is the election.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

73. Here's a listing...

Of some of the Administration members/Bush advisors who are PNAC. The "out" ones, that is:


Dick Cheney (current Vice-president)
Donald Rumsfeld (current Secretary of Defense)
Paul Wolfowitz (current Deputy Secretary of Defense)
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby (current Chief of Staff to Vice President Dick Cheney)
Elliott Abrams (current National Security Council: Senior Director for Near East and North African Affairs)
William J. Bennett (current presidential advisor)
Eliot A. Cohen (current member of the Defense Policy Board)
Aaron Friedberg (current Deputy National Security Advisor to Vice-president Cheney)
Francis Fukuyama (current member of the President's Council on Bioethics)
Zalmay Khalilzad (current Ambassador to Afghanistan)
Peter W. Rodman (current Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs)
Henry S. Rowen (current member of the Defense Policy Board)
Jeb Bush (George W. Bush's sibling)
Vin Weber (current Midwest campaign chairman for George W. Bush)
John Bolton (current Undersecretary of State)
Richard Perle (current member of the Defense Policy Board)

[trogdor]

67. One way they can do it without the draft...

...is lower the bar on ASVAB scores. Take more Forrest Gumps.

Stupider troops are harder to train, but easier to lead anyways.

[kysrsoze]

68. Ooooh, that was rough - but I'm sure it's under consideration

Just think of the drives underway to train mentally challenged people to vote. Disposable people, right?

[LincolnMcGrath]

5. STOP LOSS=CONSCRIPTION?

[hang a left]

6. Oh really?

http://www.bushdraft.com/proof.html

"the nation must be prepared to conduct a draft"

--Lewis C. Brodsky, director of public and congressional affairs with the Selective Service System

Many people have been wondering if our President has secret plans to reinstate the draft. This website will provide absolute proof that Bush is making plans to reinstate the draft by the middle of 2005.

In the last few months Bush has launched a recruiting drive for people to work on the draft boards around the country, the DefendAmerica government site posted an advert looking for volunteers, but when someone brought this to the attention of the press it was promptly removed, fueling rumours about the possibility of a draft.

There are also CURRENTLY bills in the Senate and in the house that, if passed, will make military service a requirement for all men, women (including college students) between the age of 18 and 25.

Senate Bill - House Bill

Articles about the recruitment drive for draft board workers can be found here

A Copy of the DefendAmerica page

Bush drives to fill draft board positions
Draft Board Vacancies Prompt Questions of a Draft
Is the Draft on the Drawing Boards?
Talk of a Draft Grows
Will US Bring Back the Draft
Selective Service Notice Spurs Worries about Draft
US Raises Spectre of Conscription
Will Bush Reinstate The Draft?
Appeal for Draft Board Volunteers Revives Memories of Vietnam

[MattNC]

10. nothing in there

is evidence of the draft coming back. it's speculation -- nothing more. and the two bills were nothing more than points trying to be made by hollings and rangel.

[hang a left]

15. It was read twice and referred to committee.

oops
On edit: This is the other bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
H.R.163
Title: To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Rangel, Charles B. (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors: 13
Related Bills: S.89
Latest Major Action: 2/3/2003 House committee/subcommittee actions. Status: Executive Comment Requested from DOD.


S.89
Title: A bill to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Hollings, Ernest F. (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors: (none)
Related Bills: H.R.163
Latest Major Action: 1/7/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.

[hang a left]

17. Here is the budget

http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

[MattNC]

24. that's the plan

but it hasn't been approved to my knowledge. it wasn't a part of the DOD's latest budget i know that.

[hang a left]

30. Yep, that is the plan alright.

Do you actually think that they would activate it in an election year?


I have read that the Patriot Act was written and was "the plan" waiting for...?

[DemoTex]

7. My young drafted-ass it won't!

You are wrong, my friend. You must be very young too, to say never. Never say never! It will happen again. Mark my word. Bit me in the ass in 1968, and I thought I was home-free. If you are <22, you had best get a plan.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

11. yep, and it is a wonderful feeling to be presented with the kind

attentions of your local AFEES station. Oh what joy, bordering on rapture, it is to stand in line with hundreds of others, having to strip and have a finger inserted in your rectum all the way down the line, then shuffle off naked to be observed for back problems.
And that is just the screening.
They are far from done with you.

There will be a draft, because we don't have enough troops to pull off the stunts these clowns want.

So, pick your side now, or your color.

North or South....

stay away from green if you can.... Coast Guard blue is a good color to wear when we are playing in the desert.

Take it from veterans, it can happen to you.

[DemoTex]

25. Spread your cheeks ... turn your head and cough ...

Meathead!

[Just Me]

36. Yup, coast guard blue is the advice I've received,...

,...from vets with respect to directing my only son IF I cannot somehow manage to remove us from the circumstances. Also, I was told grunts in the USAF are the second best protected from hard-core service.

[kellycp]

no

there is no country on the face of this planet that would make it necessary to have the 4 million man cold war army of the past. the 1 million man army will do just fine. and yeah ill pick my colors, it'll be ranger tan

[kysrsoze]

46. removed

[Zhade]

82. Multiple occupations call for millions of soldiers.

We're occupying Afghanistan, at least in part.

We're occupying Iraq.

The PNAC crowd calls for unilateral world domination to protect American interests. Now, don't you think a few more occupations might be planned?

As for "ranger tan", if you're willing to go fight and die for lies by fascist traitors...well, it's a pretty horrifically stupid move, but try not to get shot, I guess.

[kellycp]

40. sry double post

[Zhade]

18. Oh, really?

http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/draft-boards.htm

Once identified as qualified candidates for appointment, prospective Board Members are recommended by the Governor and appointed by the Director of Selective Service, who acts on behalf of the President in making appointments. Each new member receives 12 hours of initial training after appointment, followed by 4 hours of annual training for as long as he or she remains in the position. They may serve as Board Members for up to 20 years, if desired.

Local Board Members are uncompensated volunteers who play an important community role closely connected with our Nation's defense. If a military draft becomes necessary, approximately 2,000 Local and Appeal Boards throughout America would decide which young men, who submit a claim, receive deferments, postponements or exemptions from military service, based on Federal guidelines.


That came from the Defense Department Website "Defend America" - which removed the notice calling for people to join local draft boards. The notice went up on 9/23/03 and was taken down in early November after growing interest in and greater exposure of the notice in the press.

[PaDUer]

21. What makes

you say this? Explain please.

[greatauntoftriplets]

38. Do you really think they will get 30,000 more volunteers?

I lived through a time when the draft existed, same era as DemoTex and others here. Manpower is stretched way too thinly. They are calling up National Guard right and left. My own nephew is heading to Afghanistan for the "spring offensive". He has had to leave school to prepare and train and spend time with his family and girlfriend before leaving for 365 days (plus how many more we don't know). Others are leaving their jobs, wives and families.

[kellycp]

41. yes

believe it or not there are plenty of people who want to go and serve their country, not sit and whine at the thought of being forced to

[kysrsoze]

42. Yeah, are you one of them, Kelly?

You going to volunteer before the draft ever happens, or are you just going to sit and let everyone else stop whining/volunteer?


Grow up.

[hang a left]

43. so are you ready to sign up? or maybe send your kids?

[kellycp]

45. actually

yes, my contract is set, one more year of college, then officer candidate school, airborn, and ranger schools. and when i do have kids i'd be totally supportive of them enlisting

[kysrsoze]

48. Freeper alert

Nice try. Hopefully when you get to 500 posts or so, you will have learned something. Hey, if you want to send your kids - great. Hopefully, they won't need mine.

[kellycp]

50. and

that's your and their choice to make

[kysrsoze]

53. You know, I wouldn't be opposed to my children serving...

If they weren't going to be used as pawns in a bullshit, preplanned oil grab and pork barrel spending plan, disguised as a necessity in preserving our country's safety.

Iraq II was planned years prior to 9/11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Whatever WMDs once existed were supplied by US contractors and it was authorized by your government. As far as Saddam being such a bad man (which I'm sure he is), about 10,000 of his own people died so the country could be "liberated." Regardless, the US continues to support a number of brutal dictatorships, who are not attacked because there is nothing to gain in currency stabilization or oil profits from those countries - just keeping those dang'rous commies from takin' over.

We've severely damaged our foreign policy and caused other countries to ally themselves against possible aggression from the US. We've spent $140 Billion on this war and are NO safer than before, b/c we weren't going after Al Qaeda.

Stop swallowing everything that's spoon-fed to you by the corporate-controlled US media. Take some time to read from independent sources. Or if you don't want independent sources, go right to the horse's mouth: www.newamericancentury.org

[trogdor]

69. Take it from somebody who's spent 22 years in the Army.

I do NOT want my son getting his ass shot off just so a bunch of old rich white guys can get richer and Idiot George can get his rocks off. That, in my not-so-humble opinion, is a STUPID way to die, and there is NO honor in it.</klingon>

[greatauntoftriplets]

58. Why wait?

On edit: Obviously you want to be regular Army. My nephew joined the National Guard last June upon discharge from four years in the Army -- it was the only way they would let him out.

He has had to withdraw from college to prepare for deployment to Afghanistan. I wish to hell he could had finished his first year of school.

[kellycp]

61. because

you need a 4 year degree to enter OCS

[hang a left]

63. That is nice. My 16 year old son who will be 18 when he

graduates won't have that opportunity.

[kysrsoze]

64. Well, not everybody can be an officer, can they?

It's a different story when you're out there carrying a rifle around and waiting to be attacked. Incidentally, what type of officer are you planning to be?

[kellycp]

79. well

the army has programs for people who cannot afford college and want to become officers, officers still carry rifles and they still die like everyone else, and i'm going to be an infantry platoon leader if it works out like my contract says

[hang a left]

86. We can afford to send our son to any college he wants to

attend. Doesn't look like he or his parents get that choice.

[oneighty]

66. Four year degree for OCS?

Must have changed it since I was in.

180

[oneighty]

65. Jumper? Ranger?

WhoooHooo

You got your work cut out for you.

180

[kellycp]

78. yeah

I'm a good athelete but just practicing the PT tests makes me wish my legs were a bit longer

[oneighty]

84. You gonna

need will power and like snakes a lot (for lunch! Strength is great but it is not enough. Beware of the lowly enlisted men that have become officers. There is nothing meaner than a high school dropout that has become (somehow) a major and decides not to like you.

Good luck in pursing your dreams.

180

[kellycp]

85. thanks

yeah ive heard the stories, as a fresh 2nd lt you're basically a higher rank's lackey for quite a while, the younger guys don't care for you much either, but i just want to contribute, i really believe soldiers, for the most part are some of the most dedicated, loyal, and honorable people in our society, and i just want to be a part of that

[PaDUer]

88. If you aren't

shipped back in a box.

[tabasco]

93. From an ABN RGR CIB

Good luck to you. BTW, if they guaranteed you Ranger School, think again. You have to qualify. Hell, even for Airborne, but just about every stiff gets to go Airborne. Maybe you will acquire a more informed view after a few years of service. I hope so. Afghanistan was right. Iraq was wrong. We are screwing up Afghanistan because of Iraq. Stupid.

[tabasco]

44. Been there, done that. Vet with 2 combat tours.

If you haven't talked to some recruiters lately about their numbers, you're talking out your ass. I have good buddies who are recruiters and they tell me people aren't breaking down their doors to fight in the Haliburton War.

[Just Me]

51. It is noble indeed to serve the interests of this country,...

,...but, I'll be damned if anyone be forced to serve the interests of the "freon neocons" who don't give a rat's crap about the broader interests of the American people. To hell with those arrogant, greedy, power-mongering, self-interested old farts!!! If they seek more economic and political power for themselves, they can spill their own freakin' blood for it!!!

[kellycp]

52. all

i'm saying is that there won't be a draft, it would damage army infrastructure and almost destroy morale. our military today has a professionalism not seen in any army in the history of the world, conscription would ruin that. number of troops does not matter, not in our army, not with our technology.

[greatauntoftriplets]

55. Don't you think that Army morale is in the crapper already?

[kellycp]

59. i'm

sure it's not the greatest, morale is alway's highest right before an offensive and right after victory, what's going on now, is a bunch of soldiers standing around bored, then next thing they know their buddy just got blown up by some nutbag suicide bomber, and that's about as damaging to morale as you're gonna get. draftees would only worsen the problem though and they know it. I mean honestly, who's going to react better? someone who signed up knowing they could go, or someone who got yanked cause their govt told them they had to? The US military has been working for close to 2 decades to perfect this
small(er) numbered professional army idea, a draft now, would absolutely ruin it. it's just not gonna happen

[trogdor]

70. What makes you think Bush gives a rat's ass about morale?

Post Nov. 2nd, he'll give even less than that.

[Dhalgren]

75. Complete doofus!

Ass with lips.

[kellycp]

81. well

not everyone who disagrees with you on a particular topic is a "complete doofus" it seems like you're almost hoping there is a draft. :/ i havent called anyone names here, that's not discussion, that's just silly, but fine, im gettin beat up on from all sides so i'll stop posting, i support our guys over there, in about a year and a half ill be one of them, and i have confidence that they can finish the job whether or not everyone agrees with it or not

[kysrsoze]

56. Wrong

Number of troops actually does matter, otherwise Rumsfeld wouldn't have done what he just did. Technology matters less when you are fighting a guerilla war. Ask any of the Vietnam vets who are on this board. I'm sure you've read The Art of War?

As for morale - it's piss-poor. A number of soldiers have refused to return from leave. There have been over 20 documented suicides. There is extremely low morale in those who are over there and serving.

There will be a draft if Bush is re-elected. Mark my words.

[Just Me]

60. Simply put and separate from our military, I invest no trust in

self-serving freon neocons who have demonstrated the propensity to hide the truth about their ulterior motives, lie and deceive the American people, and misuse/abuse the incredible resources of this nation at enormous personal gain to themselves. I accept "your" belief that there will be no draft. But, I in no way, shape or form believe that the cabal which presently rules this nation has no intention of sneaking the draft back into the picture; particularly since their actions have proven an allegiance to the PNAC plan.

[jpak]

62. Bush has already damaged army infrastructure and morale

he doesn't need a draft.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

76. Troop numbers matter for occupation

Occupation requires boots on the ground. Until Bechtel/Halliburton unveils the Terminator 2004 robotic troopers, the kind of mission the military is embarked upon in Iraq will require many troops for a long time.

[Zhade]

83. The troops are not serving their country.

They are serving the fascist traitors in the White House and the PNAC crowd.

Don't you get it yet? Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Card/Powell/etc lied and people died. Are still dying. Attitudes like your ignorant belief that the soldiers are "serving their country" GET PEOPLE KILLED.

You are culpable. The troops', and Iraqis', blood is on your hands.

Deny it. Your hands are still wet.

Support the traitors in office, and you support murder for empire. Deal with it.

[PaDUer]

89. Great...we'll see all the happy

people at freepsville at the recruiting station..matter of fact, we'll all bring camcorders and cameras..maybe even a few reporters. But from what I've read at freepsville, there were many who weren't all that happy and were already looking for a way out.

[susanna]

13. Goodness, reading between those lines...

...was so obvious. The first thing I thought was draft, too. Is this their trial balloon for needing a larger Armed Forces? :-(

On that note, is this not the same Rumsfeld that about two years ago said we needed to "shrink" the Armed Forces because we could do more with less (i.e., technological gains)?

Nauseating spin. I guess in the end they figured out that there is no technological answer for folks patrolling hostile ground.

Will any of these people EVER learn?

[raifield]

3. "WP2006: Rumsfeld OKs Increase in Army Size"

From the future's Washington Post. No despair yet.

Rumsfeld OKs Increase in Army Size
Authorized for Distribution by the Ministry of Information
(c) 2006, The Washington Post

WASHINGTON -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, invoking emergency powers, has authorized the Army to grow temporarily by 30,000 conscripts above its congressionally approved limit of 482,000 draftees to facilitate a restructuring of forces severely strained by operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran and Syria and North Korea and counterterrorism missions everywhere else not listed.

The increase, disclosed Wednesday during a treasonous testimony by Gen. XXXXXX XXXXXXXX, the Army's XXXXX XXXXX, surprised members of the Ministry of Love, many of whom have been pressing for a secret draft.

Rumsfeld has resisted a permanent increase for months, arguing that a number of efficiency measures and restructuring moves could alleviate some of the stress on U.S. consumers. But his approval of a temporary rise -- which does not require congressional action and which Schoomaker said would probably be needed for four years and then some -- appeared to acknowledge that some relief is needed.

An aide said after the hearing that the troop increase probably would be achieved through a draft and once their contracts expire, a ``stop-loss'' order will bar their exit.

To come?

[legin]

9. Perhaps

It is another way of doing the two extra divisions that was talked about in the Byrd report.

We could do with a figure for the turnover of staff in the military, how many are leaving and how many joining per year so we work out exactly what effect these stop-loss things have. Something to watch out for while browsing.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

12. I used to look at those kind of things all the time, now I notice

they have been removed from the web.

I am sure that is some kind of national security concern. Meaning, of course, they must show things in a negative light.

[kaitykaity]

16. They can't get them all trained by the time the rotation

starts.

They're getting desperate. I hate these fucking
people. (I have never sworn so much in my life.)

[pfitz59]

22. Invoking "emergency powers" to run govt.....

is same tactic Hitler used! Insane Fascist monkeys!

[mikehiggins]

34. Nah, can't happen here

Anyway, you can't compare this administration to the Nazis.

The Nazis had more than greed behind what they did.

If Bush gets reelected I fully expect we'll be living in Tommy Franks' America before 2008 rolls around.

Bush Amerika for "the duration of the present emergency."

And a lot of the Democrats will vote to support the new regime.

This election is THAT important.

[BrotherBuzz]

26. And this is the guy that told us

that draftees added "no value, no advantage, really, to the United States Armed Services over any
sustained period of time."? ....when pigs fly....

These 30,000 troops (I've heard as many as 40,000) are nothing but a stopgap measure until the 2004 elections are corrupted and the draft machine is reinstated in early 2005.

Just a dumb draftee who added no value, no advantage...telling the young ones to check their six.

[lebkuchen]

28. 105,000 that are rotating in now are due to rotate out April 2005

Those troops don't know who's going to replace them, though the Dod, as we can see, is working on it.

The back to back deployments are killing reenlistment goals (not to mention the military family structure--plan on an increase in divorce rate).

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. here comes the draft...and here goes my children to my best friends home

in Canada :(

[catmandu57]

32. 100,000 per for next three years

minimum, just in Iraq was what was reported last night on the news. Where are those soldiers going to come from? They can't meet the enlistment quotas now, and as things get worse with much of the A team out, they sure as hell aren't going to have enlistees banging down the doors.

[alittlelark]

72. They might come from the illegal immigrants

that * has talked about giving amnesty to. Conservatives are all ticked off about the issue - maybe * will 'acquiesce' and say they can become citizens if they serve our country in the military. Just a thought.

[tlcandie]

33. Please explain to me why a stop-loss order was put in on our

son-in-law as a recruiter in the army if this is all nonsense? My question is this... Can they FORCE him into being deported rather than serving as a recruiter?

We have two wonderful grandbabies who absolutely think the world of their daddy and I'm very worried about whether he can be FORCED to be deported.

Stop-loss against a recruiter? They are already hard-nosing them for enlistments...why don't they just drop the numbers of recruiters?
How are they so important that they need a stop-loss order?

[bobthedrummer]

37. Amidst all the other things Rumsfeld has been up to during his tenure

as Secretary of Defense, there is the ongoing re-organization of the military called for by the doctrine of RMA/Revolution in Military Affairs.
http://www.datafilter.com/mc/rmaWarCollege.html

Then there is the RPMA/Revolution in Political and Military Affairs from the USAF in 1996, a study of the efficacy of coups, of which we might have had one back in December 2001 IMO.
http://www.guerrillacampaign.com/coup.htm

[no one in particular]

39. Job Creation

Bush style

[Rockholm]

49. Incentives? I doubt it, try the DRAFT, Rummy!

[DubyaSux]

74. There will be a draft

I don't think they can avoid a draft.

40% of everyone we have over in the middle east are reserves. Although they are keeping many from getting out on time (stop-loss), there will evenutally be a mass exodus. Assuming we are going to be occupying either Iraq or another axis-of-convenience country, in 3 years we're going to be hurting for troops.

I beleive a draft is unavoidable if Bush wins.

[Bandit]

77. stop-loss'' orders barring their exit.

Nice way to win the military vote.

[mn9driver]

87. The Military folks at Bush's SOTUS looked mighty peeved.

I don't think the Bushies are gonna want to be counting too many late military absentee votes this time around.

Driver
Roachblog

[PaDUer]

90. Notice all the

newbies on this thread..wow..

[Corgigal]

92. I know two people who came home from Iraq

last month. They agree that is we get entangled in one more country we will be forced to draft. We are spread too thin in Iraq as it is. They told me how scary it is over there right now but they did tell me that the Bush Turkey is still in the mess hall and someone wrote on a piece of paper that the war is this, with an arrow pointed at the turkey.

No one is voting for Bush, not one of these guys nor anyone they are serving with. They know what they were dealt. I agree with them, the damn draft is coming and like we knew a war was coming. They didn't spend all the money on selective service boards to get ready for nothing. Disregard at your own peril.