Toyota hybrid battery outpaced by demand

[harun]

Source: Associated Press

Toyota is struggling to keep up with booming demand for its hybrid vehicles because it can't make enough of the batteries that are key parts in the hit "green" cars, a senior executive said Monday.

Toyota said last week its hybrid-battery joint venture with Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., which makes Panasonic products, will begin producing next-generation lithium-ion batteries in 2009, and move into full-scale production in 2010.

Toyota also said it's setting up a battery research department later this month to develop an innovative battery that can outperform even that lithium-ion battery.

Toyota has also announced its third plant in Japan for producing current hybrid batteries, called nickel-metal hydride, that run the Prius and other hybrid models on sale now.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/japan_toyota_hybrids

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Nice to see some big money behind battery research, development and production.

[FMArouet]

1. Surprised that Toyota would invest in more nickel-metal hydride...

production capacity rather than accelerate the schedule for lithium-ion battery production.

I'm quite happy with my current Prius (42-46 mpg in town; 53-57 mpg on the freeway) with the old battery technology, but I'm waiting for the lithium-ion version in order to replace a non-hybrid second car now on its last legs.

[krkaufman]

2. You can always go this route, this Fall, if you have a few spare bucks lying around

http://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/products/N5_range_extender

[Skarbrowe]

3. I went serious car shopping this afternoon and the Prius was 32-35 grand.

And even at that price they were sold by the time they hit the lot. I tried to look at a Honda Civic Hybrid but I couldn't find any of them in stock either. I knew there were waiting lists so it wasn't really a big surprise. Almost bought a Honda Fit, but it didn't have cruise control. Found out I hate car shopping. :) I am trying to do the right thing and get a car with the best gas mileage possible. Not only because of the high price of gas, but also to keep some of the dang profit going to the oil companies. I drive very little as it is. If I got 40 miles to the gallon, a tank of gas would last me a long time.

[jaksavage]

4. Hybrids

are starting to come onto the used market for @ half of that 35k price.
As always buy a low mileage used car and save $$$$$$.

[ananda]

5. I ordered a Civic Hybrid about a month ago.

It arrives Monday. Hurray!

[kimmylavin]

6. Considered a Yaris?

Got mine about a year and a half ago.
I drive 50 miles each way to work, and I love my little car.
I get between 36 - 40 mpg (lots of highway driving), its got a lot more room than it seems to, you can fit into teeny parking spaces, and its zippy as all getup.
(No cruise control, but you can buy a kit to install it...)
Paid around $16,000 for it, with the "power package" and the warranty.

[Carnea]

9. Stay away fromthe civic hybrid... the go-cart engine noise will dive you slowly insane.. nt

[spinbaby]

18. Wow, they've really gone up in price

I paid about $25,000 a year ago. Not stripped, either--mid-range model.

[Skarbrowe]

27. Yeah, the demand is way out stripping the supply so they can

ask for over 30 grand and get it. We are still thinking about getting one or as someone suggested looking for a used one. Bet that would take a longer time. heh The guy did call up today and say they got in several Honda Fits that I thought would be good for a "bridge" car until we could make up our minds. Our second car is very close to death. We really do need something within the month.

Thanks everyone on this post for all the very good information!

[primavera]

29. That's about what I paid, too

Actually a little less through a favorable lease deal they were offering at the time. Interesting, glad I bought when I did.

[DebbieCDC]

7. My Prius dealer has twice offered by buy back my 2005 model

First I got a letter from them about 3 weeks ago asking if I wanted to sell my car back to them.

Next, I went into the dealer on Sat. for my 20,000 mile check up. I swear I wasn't even out of the car yet when one of the salespeople descended on me and asked if I was interested in selling my car.

With my gas costing me about $7.00/week, there's no way I'm parting with this baby.

[Paulie]

14. You have 20k on your 05 model?

My 05 (purchased Nov/04) is going to hit 80k this month. :) :) :)

[Blackhatjack]

8. My Q: Batteries Don't Last Forever --How Much Will It Costs To Replace The Batteries?

IF you keep the present hybrid long enough, you will have to replace the batteries. I have read estimates of as much as $5000 or more when that day comes.

That sure would wipe out the majority of savings produced by the improved gas mileage.

[Jack_DeLeon]

10. It all depends on how much gas is then....

and it will probably be even more then.

[Bill219]

11. read this article

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm

Answers questions about the battery life

[Puzzler]

12. I work for a taxi company...

... that has over 60 hybrids (most are the Toyota Prius). The older 1st generation hybrids in my company are over 6 years old, and all of them have been on the road 24/7. Not one hybrid in the company has had any battery problems. Not one. So if taxi companies can drive these things hard (and they are driven hard) for years without any battery issues, then, I think the general consumer can rest easy about the so-called battery problems (there haven't been any!).

[Bill219]

13. Exactly what is talked about in the article

"According to Toyota, the life of the Prius battery pack is determined more by mileage than by time, and it has been tested to 180,000 miles. Supporting this are first- and second-generation Prius taxis in Canada that have reportedly traveled more than 200,000 miles without suffering any battery problems."

Most of these myths posted on blogs and message boards and sent in curious emails daily about the Prius and it's battery have already been debunked.

My wife and I bought a 2007 model early last year and have not had one issue with it.

[Thegonagle]

15. There were some battery failures in some first year Insights,

but a software update that changed how deeply the battery charged or discharged pretty much solved the problem. All affected Honda Insights have been repaired and updated free of charge.

Other than Honda's early gaff, there just haven't been many battery problems.

The oldest hybrids are barely reaching 8-9 years old now, and the majority are less than 4 years old. When a lot of them start reaching 15 years or so, we'll probably have a better idea just how long they can be expected to last.

So far, so good though.

[customerserviceguy]

24. Impressive

thanks for posting that!

[sudopod]

17. Efficiencies introduced by mass production techinques

will affect this price.

[DebJ]

25. We just bought a Camry hybrid last year. At this point in time,

very few people are ordering replacement batteries, because they are guaranteed for seven years. At least, that is what ours is guaranteed for. In five to seven years, when more people need this type of battery, production levels should be up and costs down. Check my math here, I am tired: If you drive the average 12,000 miles per year,and you switch to a hybrid and gain 20 mpg (going from 20+ to 40+), you will have cut your gasoline expenses in half. 12,000 miles at 20 mpg is 600 gallons. With a hybrid, you save half of that, or 300 gallons a year. At what price? 4.00 = $1200 a year in savings. $5 gal = $1500 a year in savings. In three-four years, you can pay for a new battery from gas savings, even at current prices, but you won't have to do so, because it will be replaced by the manufacturer. I kept my last car for 13 years (RIP June 2008), so a car is an investment I plan to get every possible mile out of before I make another pile of crap for the dump and the pollution to create a new one. How much will gas be in ten years? I'm very happy with our Camry. Also, their resale value and excellent repair records are well worth it.

You are also leaving a smaller carbon footprint: what is the price on that? How much is the US coastline worth, or the huge percentage of our population that lives there?
My husband does almost all driving to and from work in the city, and runs on the battery most of the time, so he uses very little gas.

[rexcat]

28. According to Toyota...

there have been no significant failures of batteries in the past 10 years and to date all battery failures have been covered by the extended warranty. Honda has a similar record.

To replace my Honda Civic Hybrid battery, at current cost, is about $3,500 (according to the dealer). I bought the car April 2008. I received a tax credit for 2008 of $1,050 and the dealer knocked of $900 of the MSRP. I don't think at this point the dealers are going to knock anything off the MSRP. On top of that the resale value will be higher than a conventional gas powered Civic plus currently I am getting between 42-47 miles/gal per fill-up. Overall I think I will be ahead when we trade-in the car many years down the line.

[primavera]

30. Toyota told me they would replace them for free

Although I gather that varies somewhat with there you buy the vehicle. The salesman made a big deal out of it, that because we'd bought the car in Maine, and Maine was one of a few states to require "50 state coverage" or something like that, it meant that Toyota's warranty on the batteries had to conform to even the strictest states' law governing warranties. As you can tell, I'm fuzzy on the deatils, but the jist of it was that we supposedly could get the batteries replaced at no cost for as long as we owned the vehicle. The batteries supposedly last 100,000 miles minimum, and, at the rate that we drive, our Prius will probably be 20 years old before we ever need to replace the batteries.

[Puzzler]

31. 100,000 miles?

The batteries last far in excess of 100,000 miles. As I've mentioned in my previous posts, my taxi company has Prius cabs that are over 6 years old. Heck, I drive a Prius that's 1 1/2 years old that has over 100,000 miles. None of these taxis have had any battery problems whatsoever. I don't know what the highest mileage is so far, but it has to be in the 300,000 plus mile range.

[MountainLaurel]

32. Good to know

Thanks for the info!

[primavera]

33. Cool!

I dunno, maybe the salesman was just giving me a conservative estimate or maybe he didn't know and was just making something up, it's been known to happen before. But I'm delighted to hear that the batteries have an even longer lifespan than I anticipated, thanks for letting me know!

[Blackhatjack]

16. 2nd Q: What are the replacement costs in the event of an accident? safety?

Over the last 20 years, I have dealt with numerous vehicles damaged in auto accidents, and OEM replacement parts are always more expensive than their intrinsic cost as included in a new vehicle.

I would imagine that insurance companies would be much more likely to 'total' a hybrid with damaged batteries, especially if they have a policy that requires them to pay only the depreciated value of the vehicle.

Anyone know if the insurance on a hybrid is higher because of battery replacement cost overhang?

If you suffer a crash which results in significant damage to the batteries and electrical system, would there not be a greater risk of personal injury?

I am not against hybrids, I just have questions. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks.

[Puzzler]

20. The main battery pack...

... is in the middle of the car, underneath the rear seats. So if you are in an accident that is severe enough to damage the battery pack, then you're going to replacing much more of the car that just the batteries.

[Blackhatjack]

21. That is true, but does not answer my questions ... n/t

[DebbieCDC]

22. I have not seen any real difference in my insurance rates since I got the Prius

I went from a 1995 Saturn (cost to insure at the level I want) of about $1200/yr to 2005 Prius of approximately $1400/yr. Some of the price differential of course is attributable to new car versus older paid-for car, change from east coast to west coast residence. I don't find a $200/yr increase overall to be any concern whatsoever.

[Puzzler]

23. Ok then...

... I can answer your question for British Columbia: they are not more expensive to insure.

How this applies to where you live... I dunno. Why not check with some local insurance companies?

[DebJ]

26. Our insurance was not higher, except for the fact we switched to

a brand new car. But the price change on the insurance was very low. Maybe $10 a month? You can always call Geico and ask them. They are there 24/7. I've been with them for
15 years now and always get great service and the lowest cost, plus 24/7. Don't mean to be a commercial....just rare for me to be happy with service by anyone for anytime, much less 15 years.

[kiranon]

19. Paid MSRP for a 2008 Prius on Saturday/SF Bay Area

Look at prius.chat to find info on getting a hybrid and where. Craigslist in the San Francisco Bay Area worked for us.