500 DNA samples taken; no children expected to leave Texas arena today

[uppityperson]

Source: Salt Lake Trib

Child welfare officials this afternoon have sent away six empty buses that pulled into the San Angelo Coliseum where FLDS children now in state custody are being housed.
A spokeswoman for Texas Child Protective Services says there will likely be no movement of children from the Coliseum today. District Judge Barbara Walther is scheduled to meet with CPS officials in court this afternoon for an update on foster care placements.
Yesterday, 111 children ages 5 and older left the Coliseum for temporary homes located throughout the state. Authorities have said siblings under age 5 will be placed together, and attempts will be made to place older siblings together.
Authorities late Tuesday finished taking DNA samples from all the children. The attorney general's office sent 10 technicians on Monday to the Coliseum to take the court-ordered samples as child welfare officials try to sort out the complicated family relationships at the compound. Roughly 500 samples were take

Read more: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9026403

---

Looks like no more kids will be sent out today. What a blooming mess.

[stellanoir]

1. This is so counterintuitive

As if. . .kids don't instinctually know who their mums are.

[uppityperson]

2. That depends. Do you mean baby and genetic mom? Or mom who raises them?

Do you keep the biologically related ones together, or the ones related by contact/raising? Who takes precedence, genetic or adoptive mom? What happens in a society where there are lots of women raising the kids all together?

I'm glad they're not sending more off today though.

[stellanoir]

4. Yeah

I mean even if "it takes a village" the mother child bond is inextricably interwoven. At least it is with my kid.

[uppityperson]

7. There is a bond, but adoptive parent/child bond can be greater

1 problem with this FLDS stuff is we each have a tendency to look at things emotionally depending upon our own lives, experiences, so forth.

There is a bond between genetic mother/child, but there can be, and often is, a greater bond between adoptive parent/child. As far as an infant intellectually knowing who his/her genetic mother is, I don't think so.

[stellanoir]

10. I recently dated my first adoptee and I don't doubt that.

I always joked that when I end this life I'll be thoroughly confidant that I had been a positive influence on my 4 god daughters than I could ever be sure about that with my own son whom I love beyond words.

Still objectivity can be a good thing.

I was just saying that genetic resonance is recognizable to little ones for the most part.

I was not meaning to minimize the great work that adoptive and foster parents do at all.

[uppityperson]

13. Thank you for the clarification. This case hits a lot of emotional buttons for a lot of people.

[provis99]

3. no, they don't know who their mom is.

Where do you get that bizarre idea from, some New Age magazine?

[stellanoir]

6. see post #4

It's experiential for me at least

and I never underestimate the wisdom of little ones.

[uppityperson]

8. Haven't you and your child been together since birth?

Then no, it's not just intellectually knowing, but having had continuing contact and care with each other. Does feeling this way make you feel sorry for adopted babies, since they are not with genetic mom but with a mom who takes care of them and loves them day in, day out?

[stellanoir]

11. see post # 10

[wickerwoman]

24. Is your child the product of rape?

Have you been forced to pump one out every year since you were 13 or 14?

It's great that you have such a strong mother-child bond, but I know for a fact that that's situationally dependent. My grandmother hated kids and was forced to have six of them. She beat the shit out of all of them and not a single one was on speaking terms with her when she died.

I find it really hard to believe that there wasn't a lot of child-beating going on or children conceived by rape or very young mothers completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of claims on their attention. Is a completely uneducated, basically unemployable 17 year old supposed to be saddled with 4 kids her whole life because of the miracle of the mother-child bond? And is that seriously the best thing for the kids?

[XemaSab]

26. To play devil's advocate here

teen moms in the FLDS are not like teen moms in our society.

They've got a MUCH stronger support network for parenting than we could even dream of, plus they probably grew up raising their own siblings so they've already been parenting for years by the time they have their own kids.

That being said, I think for these folks a lot of raising 10 kids is keeping them in line through abusive methods, plus once the support network is gone you're right, these women cannot be effective parents to their children if taken out of this society.

[Scairp]

14. Well, they don't seem to

The problem in this society is that the children are taught that all the wives their biological father is married to are their mothers, therefore, from day one, they may not be clear who gave birth to them until they get old enough to understand. A five year old who has been taught that 10 women are all his/her mother is completely confused when someone asks which one woman is their mother. What I find rather ironic in this situation is that the women up until now have been kept at home, barefoot and pregnant as it were, while the men went into town and interacted with the regular people and had more or less regular lives (exept for the part where they are worked like dogs at their "ranch"). Now, it's the women who have to go to court and fight the fight and give DNA samples and talk to the media, etc. I do hope that at least some of these women have their eyes opened during this ordeal and get their children and leave that place forever.

[stellanoir]

21. I just feel it's traumatic for little ones to be separated from their mums

even if the mums seem like zombies.

As long as they're doing no harm.

That's all.

[Scairp]

22. It will be better for them in the end

The older one's won't talk to investigators with the women around, but all women with children under five have been allowed to stay. Though how they know a particular woman is a toddler's mother might be a good question.

[rubberducky]

5. How sad for these children.

I can not help but wonder what will happen to these children who will be exposed to the "outside" world for now, if these children are then sent back with no toys, no "outside" contact. They have been ripped from all they know to be safe, will they be ripped away from all they come to know to be safe to be sent back to a life of servitude to "The prophet"?

[superconnected]

18. Yeah, cause you know, life in a religious cult where they have NO freedom

to be individuals - even change their hair or dress, is SOOOO much better than outside where they have total freedoms to chose even their religion.

I mean after all, why free people when it means it will be into something they aren't familiar with.

Let's keep them locked FUCKING UP.

:sarcasm: All of it. :sarcasm:

[rubberducky]

34. I do not understand your sarcasm.

I am an old grandma and my heart aches for these children. My point was if we take these children into "our world". What happens to these poor children if the courts send them back to thier parents? These are very young minds we are dealing with. My hope is that these poor innocents will find very good homes to help them into "our world". I would die happy if I could show just one of these children how to play with my granson`s WI, or to ride on his beloved "green machine". So, if you thought I meant that these children shouldn`t have been removed from from thier oppressive parents, I am sorry. They should have been removed years ago and they should never be returned, until they are allowed to be recognized as the individuals that they plainly are.

[orangerevolution]

9. This case screams for the ACLU

Where are they? Have they stepped up?

[uppityperson]

12. Why do you say that?

[orangerevolution]

28. Do you always answer a question with a question? n/t

[uppityperson]

33. Do you always ask questions and never give answers?

No. I answer but I also like to see what others think too. Your turn.

[LisaL]

30. ACLU has already issued a statement that its concerned about

these people rights being violated.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/20/polygamy.sect/index.html
You know, freedom of religion and all that good stuff that is in the constitution.

[orangerevolution]

31. Why not something more forceful than a statement

given the number involved and the attention it has gotten?

I think this is right up their alley to come out and stand on the court house steps with TV cameras.

They have done so for less.

[uppityperson]

35. Freedom of religion doesn't excuse breaking the law.

Have you written the ACLU and asked them? If you did so, would you please post the answer as I do wonder what they say about it? That is a serious request. Thanks.

[orangerevolution]

39. aven't they reacted to other instances

without a letter writing campaign?

Why not this time? The cicvil liberties of these kids are in jepordy.

[izquierdista]

15. American Lebensborn

The solution may end up being worse than the original problem.

[kestrel91316]

16. I doubt that. SERIOUSLY.

Maybe you think a live of captivity and reproductive slavery a la The Handmaid's Tale is all sunshine and roses. I don't.

[uppityperson]

17. Are you seriously saying CPS is stealing kids to make a Master Race?

that is the funniest thing I've read here today, beyond the squirrel posts.

Or are you saying the Nazis stole kids that were being raped and placed them where the abuse would stop?

I'm confused as to what you mean.

[izquierdista]

23. I'll let you figure it out

I heard today where the judge decided NOT to remove nursing infants from their birth mothers. Perhaps someone has some sense in this sad episode.

[uppityperson]

25. Yeah, no sense trying to clarify anything when guesses and assumptions are so much more fun, eh?

I hadn't heard that about the nursers. Good.

[superconnected]

19. Why? Cause living in a religious cult where they have NO FUCKING freedom

to even change their hairstyle or think what they want - switch religions etc, is sooo much better than going out to the free world because they're not used to the free world and they're safer in the cult? Is that it?

Maybe you belong in a brainwashing cult all safe and sound, but other people need not be forced into your values.

And, no, I don't get your reasoning.

It's like someone from saudi arabia proposing that giving women rights could make them end up worse than when they had no rights. I'm pretty sure they're willing to take their chances and don't need suppressors input on their welfare. As far as those little kids the parents tried to get out of germany, had they stayed, they would have died. So no they weren't better off not going.

[fed_up_mother]

20. Problem - Warren Jeffs & henchmen chose these kids to produce a master race

that was untainted. If the "parents" get their kids back, what is going to happen to them? I foresee many of these kids being shuffled right out of "Zion" and other kids shipped in from various compounds because these children will no longer be "innocent."

And most of the "parents" will probably let that happen. :banghead:

[sam sarrha]

27. they are go'na find out which "babies" belong to what 12-14 yr oldsand who's their dady

[greymattermom]

29. statutory rape?

So will the DNA evidence be used for prosecution? An underage girl who gives birth was raped, and the DNA will identify the father.

[saigon68]

32. And then the Cell Door will squeakily slam shut

on the Pederast

[uppityperson]

36. Rapist. Please, get the terms right.

[High Plains]

37. Statutory rapist, to be a bit more precise.

[uppityperson]

38. Rapist is closer than pedophile, even without adding statutory or fundamentalist.

An interesting bit I just found while searching to see if a person convicted of statutory rape is considered a statutory rapist or rapist.

http://www.resource4criminallaw.com/rape.html

And a statutory rape conviction will stay on your record for the rest of your life. Some people think that twenty years down the road, the statutory rape conviction will be "in the past", but people are not always that forgiving. In fact, if you get a statutory rape conviction in your 20s, you could be paying for it well into your adulthood, as employers might not hire you because of your criminal record.

Additionally, it might be difficult to form new relationships, as statutory rapists are considered "sex offenders" and are expected to register whenever they move to a new location. Thus, your label as a statutory rapist will follow you from town to town no matter where you go. And with a few clicks of a mouse button, your neighbors will learn of your statutory rape conviction.(more)