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MoonAndSun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:42 PM
Original message
Dean Getting Second Look From N.H. Voters
<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=2... >



snip>>2 minutes ago

By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer

LONDONDERRY, N.H. - Larry O'Sullivan said Howard Dean (news - web sites) "looked like a yahoo" bellowing in defeat from Iowa. Patricia Fields thinks he was "a bit wild." And Kim Lindley-Soucy said he was "overly excitable."


So why did these New Hampshire Democrats stand shoulder-to-shoulder Friday to listen to the embattled presidential candidate's new stump speech? They were giving the former Vermont governor a second look.


Dean's presidential aspirations, teetering on the edge of a political abyss, depend on voters such as Fields, Lindley-Soucy and O'Sullivan finding virtue in his faults and giving him what O'Sullivan called "one more once-over."





I hope this is the beginning of a blowback from the fake media frenzy of Dean's Iowa speech.

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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. teetering on the edge of
a political abyss...these guys just keep beating that dead horse. Somebody needs 2 tell them what day of the week it is.
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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. This sentence from article is also editorializing strongly
and very subtly.

"The five-term Vermont governor, no stranger to Washington institutions such as the Democratic Governors Association, said American needs change. "We're not going to do this by nominating a Washington insider," said Dean, former chairman of the DGA."

Since being head of the DGA does not make you a Washington insider, even if it is a "Washington institution", seeing as how the Governors are from states and states are not part of Washington, Washington is not part of the states. At least that's the way I see it. But the sentence sneaks the assertion in.



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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Hell, he's the wire guy
He's supposed to know what time of day it is, as he's one of those everybody else better be in synch with or somebody back at the home news room gonna wonder what's wrong you you.

When did journalist go from being a wildly underpaid avocation of intellectural idealists to the sorry crowd of lemmings we have today?

Our current media environment is a casebook study in why the free enterprise system fails miserably at some things (like, for another example, health care).

What is valued in the profession (or what once was) is in direct opposition to the requirements of the market place, just as it is in health care.

So, it not how did I serve the public good today, it's how to I produce N lines of copy that maximize the readership/viewership and thereby build stock holder value for my employer.

Health Care has gone down the same rathole.

And the GOP is determined to do the same to education.

I'm sorry, I guess I'm high hacking this thread, but as a former journalist (who started in the profession in the high four figures, and went in to the line to do good for the world), I just get more and more depressed at what the majority of Americans see and hear.

How the hell can we every restore real Democracy in this country without destroying the power of the media monopolies? And how the hell do we do that?
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I studied journalism when it was still noble..
I am amazed, daily, at how many times the most basic rules of objective journalism are broken in mainstream media. Wire stories looking like editorials now... it's a sad end to a noble profession.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. I WAS a journalist for 25 years. What passes for "journalism" now
is a complete travesty.

Did you hear Helen Thomas - I think on NOW, recently, telling Bill Moyers that it was 9/11 that did it. They just all got scared and decided to buy into the party line that you make nice-nice and don't question authority and shut up and behave yourself and don't make any waves. And CERTAINLY you don't ask any uppity questions. And when Helen Thomas, THE DEAN OF THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS CORPS, who was covering presidents when most of the schlubs in position around her now weren't even twinkles in their mama's eye, was snubbed by bush and forced to move to the back of the room, NOBODY STOOD UP FOR HER. NONE OF THESE PANTIWAISTS STUCK UP FOR HER, AND OBJECTED TO THAT LOUSY TREATMENT OF HER. NOBODY.

Good GOD am I glad I am NOT a journalist anymore. I bailed in 1996, and never looked back. It disgusts me. THEY disgust me. I'm proud NOT to be one of them anymore. The stains and stench would kill me. And I probably wouldn't be at it for long. I'd complain and probably get my ass fired.

It's JUST AWFUL. SHAMEFUL! They are a disgrace. As much of a disgrace as bush is. Complete sell-outs. Even Bob Woodward! MAN, what a Monica he's become!

Please forgive me for the coarse reference here, but whenever I watch these people, I find myself looking for "those" blue dress stains on their blouses and neck ties.
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Longhorn79 Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Journalism and Idealism should not mix
I assume we are all fans of the truth be it convenient or not. While I agree with your thesis that journalism has gone downhill, that particular statement about how journalists used to and should still be intellectual idealists is a bit off. I don't want any journalist writing the articles I read, righty or lefty, inserting their idealism unless it's the editorial page.
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Born Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. running the video over and over again
Seems like everywhere I go I see it over and over again, with the "MADMAN/INSANE" description of Dean's behavior. Reminds me so much of 2000. These people can't tell the difference between mad and enthusiasm, create and invent or even Osama and Saddamn. They keep running it over and over and over again, far better attack ads than anything the democrats can afford to run. As I said before and I'll say it again, SCREW them all, I'll decide which candidate I want and I'll decide who is best for the White House, I won't be told what to believe by a corporate controlled media getting it's cues from the RNC.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. actually the article is quite favorable towards Dean
these are undecideds or past Dean supporters giving him another look which is what he needs. I'm optimistic that over the weekend Dean will begin to close the gap. Enough to win? I doubt it, but enough to show some momentum.
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trapper914 Donating Member (796 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'll be surprised if he can pull it out of the fire...
...I like Dean, and while the video of the Iowa speech didn't seem all that bad to me, the audio-only clip makes him sound like a moron.

There's still a long way to go, and hell, how many of us had written Kerry and Edwards off? (I'm embarrassed to say I did.)
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EFF BrandyWine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The problem for Dean is...
that the unflattering demonstration of his vocal talent will be played endlessly by his republican enemies in ads all over the country if by some chance he is the nominee.
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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. if he gets that far
the clip won't make a bit of difference one way or the other.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. I agree--it'll be old news then
nt
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. That which did not kill him, made him stronger..
IMHO. I think the media has unwittingly created a swarm of publicity for Dean. They chose to frame it negatively, but the public seems a bit more realistic about it. When you stop to listen closely, and to his voice today, he was completely hoarse. He was funny, he was laughing. At first the media pushed it as anger.. then when it became obvious he was laughing, they made him sound like a lunatic. Whatever the RNC/White House talking points of the day tell them to say, I suppose.

I think the Democratic voters are smarter than that. They continued to support Clinton, regardless of the shit he went through by the media.

All the media did was give Dean some publicity, and it's backfiring on them. It will be very telling to see how his campaign handles all this. So far, they've done very well diffusing it, and laughing at it. If voters now look at him and think that he doesn't have the platform they support, then that's okay. But all the media did was give him a big, giant opportunity for voters to check him out. They are getting more than they bargained for. Dean is STILL making headlines for his every comment... and his interview and Top 10 last night are only increasing his visibility.

Dean is not the best singer in the world. But he plays guitar... that alone should qualify him for tons more support, in my eyes.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I hope so but....
If the voters actually buy this shit the media is peddling I think I am giving up. I don't really see the point.

I wonder if the fix is not already in to tell the truth.
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I like your reasoning.
If people get a chance to know the real Howard Dean, I think they will like what they see. And the media seems to providing that chance, whether intentional or not.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Good post! I had forgotten the "what doesn't kill him makes him stronger"
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I prefer a different version of that old aphorism:
That which doesn't kill you makes ya goddamn sick.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. They sure have.
The more frequently the so-called media plays the clip from Iowa the more over-the-top they, the media, appears. The man is-----GASP!!!-----human. :o
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. I agree--the only thing worse than bad press is no press
nt
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. I even heard that he "re-performed" the speech
wearing a suit, and in a much calmer manner, as a way of mocking himself. They got it on tape, too. Someone said that they saw it on their local news, and that it was really funny and being played in a favorable manner....

I can only hope that it was in NH. :)
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michaud Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Overblown
This is the same shit they did to Clinton and Gore, now they are doing it to Dean.

Hey media. What about Bush/Edwards-Kerry 2004.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. Somebody forgot to tell the news media that the only people that
independent, flinty Democrats like less than Washington politicos are slick media pundits. I smell a comeback.

<Snip>

"Lindley-Soucy, cradling her baby at a Dean event, was not a supporter, certainly not immediately after Iowa. Suddenly, she's curious.

"He comes across as honest, even when it hurts," she said.

Fields, 66, a mental health counselor from Londonderry, said the media has made too much of the speech, a sentiment echoed by others.

"I think he was too tame to tell you the truth. I hope he doesn't back down," she said.

Gloria Kelley, 53, a union worker who attended one of his events, said she still has her doubts about Dean.

"He was over the top, wasn't he? It makes you wonder about his judgment," she said. Then a smile crept across her face, and she said, "I think I'll give him a second look, if the media doesn't mind."

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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. I am a Dean supporter
I do the letter writing and the precinct walks. I have a bumper sticker on my car etc... I did not see the thing until well after it happened. My wife and I both saw it for the first time together, she is indifferent to him. Neither of us saw it as a mad man that needed some Thorazine. We both saw it as a man that had energy, and was trying to get people motivated. I hope I have his energy and enthusiasm at that age. If you consider he said on the interview with Diane Sawyer that he is currently dealing with a head cold, that was an incredible display of energy.
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
23. I watched the speech on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
It was fine, absolutely fine. This was just a fake media scandal, and I think real people will know that. Dean also went on Letterman and did the top 10 list. This is just a human who was trying to keep his hard working troops from feeling down. I admire him for his passion. That's one of the reasons he's my candidate.

I like Kerry too, but for a candidate to motivate the people, I'll keep my candidate Howard Dean. He's the man.

Sonia
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