Biblical plaques to return to Grand Canyon

[Nambe]

PHOENIX (AP)

Bronze plaques displaying Bible verses removed from Grand Canyon National Park after a query from the American Civil Liberties Union were returned to the park Wednesday.

The plaques, quoting three verses from the Psalms, were returned to Hermit's Rest, Lookout Studio and Desert View after Donald Murphy, deputy director of the National Park Service, ordered them put back.

The plaques may not be there permanently, however.

David Barna, a spokesman for the Park Service in Washington, said the plaques were returned until park officials can get more legal advice on whether the Bible verses should remain.

``Someone further up the food chain needs to give us more guidance,'' he said. ---

[MrMonk]

1. I need new glasses

The subject line looked as if we were going to see a return of the Biblical *plagues*.

[punpirate]

3. I thought the same thing...

... and then thought, "how long would it have to rain frogs to fill up the Grand Canyon?"

[yellowcanine]

9. plagues, plaques

Yeah, I got snared on that one also. I am wearing my back-up bifocals and I thought it was talking about the biblical plagues also - I thought maybe some fundie group was sponsoring some kind of bizarre reenactment of the plagues of Egypt in the Grand Canyon. I am relieved that it is just a couple of cheesy plaques - though I don't see why we have to have anything there other than what is absolutely necessary to allow people to enjoy the Grand Canyon.

[damnraddem]

14. What I hate is when

Biblical plaques build up on your teeth. ;-)

[yellowcanine]

20. Plaques of Biblical Proportions

Do you mean Biblical Plaques of Plaques of Biblical Proportions? I think it is when one gets the latter that the hygeinist has to do that horrible scraping - FLOSS DAILY, children.

[slackmaster]

11. Me too!

First Federal Government Land Crabs, now a sea of locusts in the GC.

[sarin]

2. I don't

see what the big deal is? I mean you wouldn't see this sort of issue if it were say...a famous poets writing or whatever. I guess it could get into the whole separation of church and state, but it's not the verses are saying Worship God and all that...but I could be wrong (I dunno what verses they are, I thought the plagues et al were in Exodus).

In any event, I say keep them, but thats because I don't care one way or the other.

Sarin

[CBGLuthier]

4. the verses are at the end of the article

All the earth worships thee; they sing praises to thee, sing praises to thy name. - Psalm 66:4

Sing to God, sing praises to his name; lift up a song to him who rides upon the clouds; his name is the Lord, exult before him! - Psalm 68:4

O Lord, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches. - Psalm 104:24



They have no business being in a government park.

[damnraddem]

16. Some people are never happy unless they can get government ...

to endorse their religion. That's clearly the case here. These are not poetic statements about the beauty of a place, they are endorsements of a religious view.

[MrMonk]

19. Oh, I dunno

I think Psalms 104:24 is kind of appropriate.

As another poster pointed out, we wouldn't be having this discussion if these verses weren't from a religious text.

[Az]

5. Its not the entirety of the canyon

It is a government funded park. The government cannot endorse a religion. Displaying religious text can be considreed endorsement of the religion.

Look, religion is a charged issue. It is not the governments job to get involved. There are people on all sides that would love to use the power of the government to push their agendas. Government in representing all of the people has to remain scrupuously clear of these conflicts.

Besides does god really need the US governments help in advertising?

[Goldust]

8. I'm not so sure that qualifies as "endorsement."

"It is a government funded park. The government cannot endorse a religion."

"Endorsement" of a religion would be a statment or action by the government telling people they should support a specific church or religion. Allowing a group of nuns to display plaques they paid for constitutes a violation of the First Amendment, considering that they're carved into the walls of the Supreme Court.

What about Shiva Temple, Buddha Temple, Isis and Osiris, the mesas at Hopi Point named after Hindu and Egyptian gods? Should the park rename them?

[Az]

10. They were not named by the government

It is not the mere presense of religious materials that bring about the entanglement issue. A particular point could be called Jehova's point and not violate the State/Church seperation clause.

[Goldust]

12. The plaques weren't created by the government.

They were privately funded. And any government-issued publication uses the theological names when pointing out the four mesas. This is no different than when the Ku Klux Klan calls for the repeal of the MLK holiday because "he doesn't represent everyone."

My religious beliefs bear no resemblance to those of the nuns who had the plaques put there, but no one's being forced to adopt religious beliefs or support beliefs they don't hold. I'm not a fan of discrimination, even when it's against people I don't agree with.

[Az]

17. The plaques are not part of that natural landscape

They were placed there. Are you suggesting that a plaque placed by the Klan should be allowed to represent our views in our park?

Of course not. But that is exactly the point. It is a national park. Any plaques hung there in are representitive of the governments endorsement. Anything placed there by the public, no matter how fitting, is improper.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. Well that's just dandy

More places in America where I can be reminded that no matter how bad the economy is, no matter how ruthless our leaders are, no matter how many wars we engage in, no matter how low the quality of life for most people in the world is...

God doesn't care.

[skrunch]

7. So where in the HELL can I park?...

WELCOME TO GRAND CANYON NATIONAL CANYONLANDS

This means that the grounds that you and your family are treading upon are paid for by TAXPAYERS MONEY!

PURSUANT TO EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 859-666C The employees of this facility are required to tell you and yours the following:


According to the Holy Bible AKA The Good Book AKA The Scriptures
The Grand Canyon was carved out of the GREAT FLOOD in the 10th Century B.C. as prophesised by NOAH.

You youngsters may have heard of NOAH as he saved ANIMALS two by two thus conserving them for the education as well as enlighenment for future generations without a federal government edict.

Please tread lightly. (ATV USERS: Feel free to disregard)

Refreshments as well as candy and/or cigarettes are availible at the entrance. (Don't forget to tip your RANGERS!)

Thank YOU for Visiting YOUR National Park!

Geo. W. Bush, PROP.

[opihimoimoi]

15. The bible is full of PysOps

Put all THEM Heathens/Pagans to the sword

Stone THOSE who violate the SABBATH

Stone to death women who were RAPED

Stone to death those children not following papas orders.

Its license to do HARM...

Delusional rationalzation.

[yellowcanine]

13. Where is James Watt when you need him?

For some reason this story reminds me of James Watt, Reagon's Sec. of the Interior, who thought it was ok to pave over national parks because "the end times were near and the world would be destroyed anyway". Amazingly, he wasn't forced to resign over that dumb statement but he later did resign over something he said. - something about hiring "Jews" and "cripples", I believe. In case you have forgotton, that was the same outfit that gave us "Ketchup is a vegetable", "you can protect yourself from nuclear attack with a shovel and a piece of plywood", "trees produce more pollution than cars" (Reagon himself said that) and by the appropriately named Earl Butz, Sec of Agriculture, something about that all it took to keep Blacks happy was loose shoes and a warm place to shit" (I think there was a third requirement but I have forgotten it). Butz also had to resign over that one. Just to remind you that Republican stupidity didn't begin with Dubya - nor will it likely end with him.

[IndianaGreen]

18. The Grand Canyon was created by Gawd, some 5,000 years ago!

Don't you believe in the inerrant truth of the Bible, you infidel?

How about the literal truth of the Flood and Noah's Ark? All living beings and creatures came in pairs: boy elephant, girl elephant; Steve and Ralph, Wendy and Sally, etc.

[yellowcanine]

21. Not Steve and Ralph!

What are you trying to suggest? Steve and Ralph, Wendy and Sally? As pairs? Haven't you ever read Leviticus? Heresy!
P.S. The correct Fundie way of saying Gawd is Gawd-ah. That is the way it is in the King James Bible, as dictated in English to Moses and those other guys by Gawd-ah!

[symbolman]

22. Just as long as they put up

those Satan worshiping butt f*cking dope smoking Plaques right next to them..

Or the Pee Wee Herman religion -- how about porno Plaques?

the list goes on and on..