Exxon seeks oil-project value talks with Venezuela

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Reuters

Exxon seeks oil-project value talks with Venezuela
Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:34pm EST

HOUSTON, Feb 12 (Reuters) - Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) is interested in "substantive" discussions with the Venezuelan government over the value of the extra heavy oil project taken over last year as part of the OPEC nation's nationalization drive, a company official said on Tuesday.

"We do remain interested in getting into substantive conversations with the Venezuelan government and with PDVSA around the fair market value of the assets that have been expropriated," said Mark Albers, senior vice president at Exxon Mobil at the CERA week energy conference.

Exxon, the largest U.S. company, has won temporary court rulings to freeze up to $12 billion of Venezuela's global assets in a fight over the level of payment for the project.





Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssEnergyNews/idUSN1225069420080212?rpc=401&

[dipsydoodle]

1. Never does any harm

to talk.

[Peace Patriot]

6. Yeah, that's the headline Exxon Mobile wanted. The reality:

'Talk to us while we kneecap some of your allies, destroy your economy, destabilize your country and get our pals, Bush and Cheney, to 'act swiftly' in support of our 'friends and allies,' who are even now planning your death and the overthrow of your democratic country.'

See below:

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

[nick303]

24. Yeah I thought the article in the OP sounded really biased and distorted

Your version was much more normal and straightforward.

[dipsydoodle]

27. I do think Hugo has got far more savvy

than to let Exxon mess him about in that way. I do however take your point.

[whistle]

2. Exxon actually wants to foreclose on Venezuela and place the entire country

....into bondage...well, almost...:sarcasm:

[Peace Patriot]

3. Wow, those Exxon Mobile dudes have big hearts, don't they? All they want is

fairness and JUSTICE for their little old waddling (cuz they can't stand up straight carrying around all that filthy lucre from the highest profits ever reported by a U.S. corporation) selves.

Poor boobies. And they just want to talk...talk about fairness and justice...talk about a "win-win" for everybody, and "fair market value" for Exxon Mobile. "Fair market value" for Exxon Mobile would be...well, the whole country, with a fascist regime installed to throw leftists like Chavez, and his supporters, out of airplanes, or chop them up and throw their body parts into mass graves.

A little background reading...

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

Exxon Mobile has issued the opening shot in Oil War II: South America. Destroy Venezuela's economy, destabilize the country, then--as Rumsfeld says--the U.S. should "act swiftly" in support of "friends and allies" in South America (fascist thugs planning coups).

Oil War II, coming to you this year, is my guess. But I think we may see the destabilization of Bolivia first ($1.5 million in USAID-NED funds, and lots more in black budget funds, to support rich rural landowners in dividing the country in two, to segment off the oil/gas reserve provinces from the central government of Bolivia's first indigenous president, Evo Morales, one of Chavez's many allies.) They may try to draw Chavez into a shooting war over the division of Bolivia. In any case, weakening Bolivia would be a prelimary to a move against Venezuela. All kinds of black ops going on, organized out of Miama, it appears--for instance, the Bush/CIA caper involving a "suitcase full of money," intended to "divide and conquer" Venezuela from another close ally, Argentina.

Exxon Mobile's action seeking to freeze Venezuela's assets is an act of war. They are behaving like a floating country, with its own foreign policy, unaccountable to anyone, and with no loyalty to any people, including us. Currently, they have control of our government, so their foreign policy is our foreign policy. And they are working together with the "retired" Rumsfeld, and clearly with the blessing of Bush/Cheney, to regain control of the Andes oil fields in Venezuela, Ecuador (another Chavez ally), Bolivia and Argentina (big oil find there, recently). This region has gone leftist (majorityist) and independent, while Rumsfeld & co. were preoccupied with slaughtering 1.2 million innocent Iraqis to get their oil. That didn't work out so well. Now these global corporate predators are desperate. That's part of the reason I think it's going to be sooner rather than later.

Another is, the South Americans are solidifying in the causes of social justice and self-determination, with leftist governments now covering continent, and starting to work together--with Chavez as a key leader of many of those initiatives (the Bank of the South, for instance, which has driven the World Bank loan sharks out of the region, and South American trade groups which oppose U.S.-dominated "free trade"). That's why they hate and demonize Chavez in particular. But their intention to re-conquer the continent extends to all the new leftist governments (Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Nicaragua and possibly Chile--and will extend to Paraguay, if Paraguay elects Fernando Lugo, the beloved "bishop of the poor," this year, which they well might; he's ahead in the polls).

Oil War II: South America. I don't think the Dark Lords will succeed in this case. Too much democracy in South America, where, as Evo Morales has said, "The time of the people has come." But when has greed ever stopped Exxon Mobile--or Donald Rumsfeld? Like Iraq, it's also a war profiteer project. Whoever wins, they win--the gunmakers, the no-bid contractors, the mercenaries.

Don't be fooled by Exxon Mobile ratcheting down the war prelims just a bit--by saying they want to "talk." That is total, unmitigated, lying, murderous bullshit. They are not after fair compensation. For once thing, the amounts of money involved are truly a pittance to Exxon Mobile. For another, they already had fair compensation--with the Venezuelan people getting 60% of the revenues from Venezuelan oil. They walked out of those "talks" (--a deal that other companies, like France's Total, agreed to). They want blood. They want total domination of those oil fields, and the continent. They want to destroy democracy in South America again.

[Peace Patriot]

4. Self-deleted duplicate.

Boy, DU is slow today--causing itchy fingers impatient to post comments!

[Bacchus39]

5. an "act of war"

well, if that is the case, Chavez fired the first shot after confiscating the Exxon project. Oh don't worry about Exxon NOW being prepared to talk, AFTER securing the freeze of Venezuelan assets, they know what they are doing.

but this is great, two unlikeable entitities, Exxon and the Chavez government, going after each other. They were made for each other.

pass me the popcorn and hand me a beer, I like this show.

[endarkenment]

9. "after confiscating the Exxon project"

after initiating quite legal actions to re-nationalize the oil industry, which should never have legally been de-nationalized to begin with, and within which legal framework Exxon refused to negotiate over fair market value for the assets being re-nationalized.

[Bacchus39]

10. and here we are, with Venezuelan assets frozen, and Chavez threatening retaliatory against the US

once again from Chavez. how long will we it be before we hear another assassination attempt is being drummed up by the US in conjunction with Colombia??

hey Hugo, business may not want to invest too heavily in a country if one day their assets and property are going to be taken.

but hey, I have a feeling Exxon will survive this stupid version of Robin Hood.

pass me another beer please.

[endarkenment]

11. Many countries have nationalized oil industries.

In fact it is pretty much the norm. Actually Venezuela had a nationalized oil industry right up until the 90s when the thugs over at the IMF forced Venezuela to illegally denationalize parts of the oil industry. You might want to read up on the actual history here, that is if it wouldn't get in the way of your snarkfest.

[Bacchus39]

12. I never said they couldn't, I'm just enjoying the show

n/t

[Peace Patriot]

13. Yup, an act of war. And if you enjoy leftists being thrown out of airplanes,

or their body parts being tossed into mass graves, and the torture and murder of thousands of innocent people--political leftists, union leaders, community organizers, human rights workers, small peasant farmers, journalists, teachers, the indigenous, as has happened in South America in the past, and is happening today in Bush/U.S. taxpayer-funded Colombia--sure, get out the popcorn, Bacchus39! Enjoy yourself!

This is not a fight between Hugo Chavez and Exxon Mobile. It is a fight between the vast poor majority of South America--long brutalized and oppressed, and robbed by U.S. corporations and first world financial sharks--who are finally coming into their own rightful power as the majority in democratic countries. You and the corporate 'news' media personalize it, the better to deprive the majority of their president and their democratic government. But, unlike Bush, President Chavez speaks and acts for the vast majority. It is not a personal fight. It is a fight for social justice, democracy and decent government policy.

Other countries have also nationalized their resources--most recently, Bolivia. Indeed, most countries of the world do not permit private ownership of their critical resources--as we do--except where there are highly corrupt fascist governments.

Chavez's nationalization of the oil infrastructure was neither unusual, nor out of line with previous Venezuelan policy. (Venezuela nationalized its oil long before Chavez.) It is a normal and reasonable assertion of sovereignty. But we know what Bushites and their oil giant buds think of the sovereignty of third world countries, don't we? Indeed, we had better start worrying about what they think of our own sovereignty, given their desire to sell off our port facilities to the sheiks of araby, and other hair-raising indications.

Venezuela offered Exxon Mobile a fair deal--a fairer deal than Exxon Mobile deserves, a fair deal for Venezuela's poor, a fair deal that other companies accepted. Exxon Mobile walked out of those talks, and went running to the U.S.-dominated World Bank for succor, committed an act of war against Venezuela--seeking to freeze its assets--and now wants to talk, with the World Bank gangsters standing behind them with machine guns. And all this over Venezuela's poor getting 60% of the revenues from their own oil!

Bear in mind that it was Exxon Mobile and their Bush Junta buds who instigated the oil professionals' strike in Venezuela, a couple of years back, with the object of ruining Venezuela's economy and instigating a coup against the elected government. What they can't get one way, they will try to get another. They have endless funds and resources to keep trying--against the meager powers of democratic government to fight them off. This is war plan number...I don't know...seven or eight against the people of Venezuela--and it's all of a piece. Destroy democratic government which is acting in the interests of the people, and re-install fascist government that will act in the interest of Exxon Mobile and other global corporate predators.

I didn't realize the potential for actual U.S. military intervention on the side of fascist coups, in the current climate, until Donald Rumsfeld clued me in, in the Washington Post, in December 2007! What is this 'former' mass murderer, torturer and all round darkest of the Dark Lords doing, interesting himself in Venezuela? And calling a democratically elected president a "tyrant"? And calling for "swift" U.S. action in support of "friends and allies" in South America? Whatever could he mean?

Will we never learn? Or will we keep being stupid, and passing out the popcorn and the beer, as Exxon Mobile & co. oppress and slaughter other people to fill our gas-guzzlers, at the price of the food out of our own children's mouths, at the price of their futures, and possibly at the price of some of their lives, untimely ripped open by bullets and bombs, in the corporate oil wars?

But thanks for informing us who you are rooting for--Exxon Mobile and Rumsfeld. Now we know what your anti-Chavez posts are all about.

[Bacchus39]

14. not rooting for Exxon, I enjoy both the Exxon and Chavez bashing on these related threads

when I travel to Colombia next month, I'll be sure to carry an umbrella with me lest I be struck by a downpour of corpses and body parts.

[Peace Patriot]

17. Vaya con Dios, Bacchus! And I mean that well!

And do report back to us about Colombia, even if through rose-colored glasses!

[MasonJar]

7. If I remember correctly, the oil companies were not paying the V

government its agreed to taxes and V. gave advanced warnings that the money in arrears and currently due was to be remunerated or the government would take over the oil business. Of course Exxon never paid; they still haven't paid Alaska. I cannot imagine why Alaska has not tossed them out. How does Exxon stay in business? Who buys gas there? That is another important campaign that DU needs to foment. I have not bought any gas from Exxon and their subsidiaries since the Vadeez incident. I'd park the car forever first, which is actually a good idea.

[Arctic Dave]

15. They have

Mention the name Exxon in ALaska and be prepared to have little buddies kicked in. People up here are no friends of X-on

[endarkenment]

8. So first Exxon refuses to negotiate with venezuela

within Venezuela's legal framework for re-nationalization of their oil resources, then after Venezuela proceeds with that re-nationalization despite Exxon's non-cooperation, Exxon runs off to a friendly foreign court to get a judgement against Venezuela to allow them to seize Venezuelan assets, and then offers to re-negotiate the terms of the re-nationalization, now quite outside the established legal framework, using the extortive threat of the asset seizure as a bartering chip. Anyone see a problem here?

[Peace Patriot]

16. Yup, I see more than a problem. I see a war. This is NOT about Exxon Mobile's

oil infrastructure in Venezuela (which, in any case, was bought at the price of financial oppression, here, in Venezuela and all over the world). That is NOT the issue. The issue is sovereignty. They want to break these countries for asserting their rightful, democratic power over their own resources and economies.

And, again, read Rumsfeld--in December 2007! This is a war plan. Economic warfare, to be followed with "swift" military action, in support of yet another fascist coup attempt (this one, better organized) in Venezuela, and, I think, initially in Bolivia (to weaken the leftist allies).

Global corporate predators always go for the sovereignty first. They get their talons into the government--one way or another--and, in South America generally, in the past, with U.S.-supported fascist coups (attempted recently in Venezuela)--and THEN they operate with impunity, stealing everything in sight. The government takes care of the dissident poor and their advocates. They buy the rich fascist elite with jaguars and nice housing. They pit the rich against the poor. And they prop up undemocratic, fascist governments for this purpose. Exxon Mobile doesn't want to be bothered with shooting people. They--like Chiquita, Drummond Coal and others--pay the fascist thugs of these elites (rightwing paramilitaries) to do it for them. And when they can, they gain control of entire governments, and their militaries and security forces, and then we have Venezuelans oppressing, torturing and shooting Venezuelans, and Argentinians oppressing, torturing and shooting Argentinians.

This is a nauseating replay of those past scenarios in Latin America--and current one in Colombia. And, frankly, we would be fools not to recognize the pattern. Exxon Mobile has no interest in these petty amounts of money it is trying to extract from Venezuela's poor. They want to topple the Chavez government, and stop this overwhelming trend toward democracy, social justice and independence in South American countries. It bodes ill for them in Central America, and it bodes ill for them here. They are fascists. They are anti-democracy. And they are powerful, greedy and ruthless beyond belief. Look what they have done already--to Iraq, and to our own country.

I think they will fail. But they can inflict a lot of suffering before they do--as we well know.

There is another way to look at this Exxon Mobile act of war (the attempt to freeze Venezuela's assets--most of which are not frozen now, but could be if the World Bank (recently headed by Paul Wolfowitz!) rules against Venezuela), and that is, that it is an end-run around the Bush White House, where they could not find sufficient stomach for another oil war. But even if that is true, do not underestimate the trouble that Rumsfeld can cause, using the billions he and his buds stole from us in Iraq, and the mercenary armies they've created with our tax dollars. (Blackwater has been active in Colombia, for instance--which borders Venezuela.) On the other hand, I think Rumsfeld wants to move before Ecuador kicks the U.S. military base out of that country--which leads me to believe that they intend to use it, and there is some urgency in his words, like he needs to do it while El Stupido (their "unitary executive") is still in office. But, active U.S. military involvement, or not, I think Rumsfeld and the U.S. oil giants mean trouble.

Also, they failed to get their biggest desire--Iran! Next best choice: the oil fields in the Andes.

And wouldn't it be just the shits for any Democratic candidate to be failing to "support our troops," and whining about another preemptive war, and questioning the "unitary executive," and (this is how it will be framed--though a damned lie it will be) failing to support the forces of democracy (fascist thugs) in our own hemisphere?

Can't you just hear it? What has all the demonization of Chavez been for--except this--to silence and befuddle the Democrats, when they make their move against Venezuela, and, of course, to confuse, befuddle and silence the American people?

Rumsfeld's WaPo op-ed is the key--and boy did that go by everybody real fast!

I hope I'm wrong. I'm just trying to fit the puzzle pieces together, to suss out what these bastards might do next. It's hard to do, given the pervasive disinformation in our corporate media. But I've sure seen a lot of evidence to support ill and devious intent by Exxon Mobile in this instance, and collusion among first world powers, oil corps and the Bush Junta, to destroy Chavez and the hopes of millions and millions of people in social justice and democracy. Add Rumsfeld into the picture, threatening U.S. military intervention two months ago, and what does that portend?

[AngryAmish]

30. Exxon does not have a judgment against the VZ oil co.

In essence they have an injunction that means foreign banks, etc. cannot get rid of VZ assets right now. Exxon does not have them. VZ does not have them. They are held until settlement or judgment via arbitration.

Now this is a bit of a distinction without a difference - VZ can't get their hands on this until settlement or judgment.

However this is the agreement VZ entered into to resolve disputes.

Your answer: the people did not agree to this so the agreement to arbitrate is void. This seized should be void ab initio. Problem: the treaty that allowed this and IMF treaty has not been voided by VZ. Under international law one must void a treaty one does not like to avoid things like this.

[Judi Lynn]

18. Honduras to start buying oil from Venezuela

Caracas, Tuesday February 12 , 2008
Honduras to start buying oil from Venezuela

Honduran authorities met Tuesday to coordinate a first purchase of oil byproducts from Venezuela under regional energy alliance Petrocaribe, official sources said.

A Venezuelan delegation arrived in Tegucigalpa "to refine the details for the shipments of bunker fuel," Presidency's Minister Enrique Flores told reporters.

Asdrúbal Chávez, a vice-president of Venezuelan oil giant Pdvsa and Caracas Ambassador to Tegucigalpa Claudio Osorio, headed the Venezuelan delegation AFP reported.

Last January the Honduran government issued a decree under which the country would purchase from Venezuela 100 percent of bunker for power generation and fuel, diesel and gas to meet 30 percent of demand in Honduras.

More:
http://english.eluniversal.com/2008/02/12/en_eco_art_honduras-to-start-bu_12A1361201.shtml
(Opposition newspaper)

[Judi Lynn]

19. Is Exxon anxious to talk because of this? "Venezuela Freezes Oil Sales To Exxon Mobil"

Venezuela Freezes Oil Sales To Exxon Mobil
Nation's State Oil Company Suspends Commercial Relations With U.S.-Based Company

CARACAS, Venezuela, Feb. 12, 2008

AP) Venezuela's state oil company said Tuesday that it has stopped selling crude to Exxon Mobil Corp. and has suspended commercial relations with the U.S.-based oil company.

State-run Petroleos de Venezuela SA, or PDVSA, said in a statement that it "has paralyzed sales of crude to Exxon Mobil." It said the decision was made "as an act of reciprocity" for the company's "judicial-economic harassment."

President Hugo Chavez has shaken oil markets this week with broader threats to cut off oil supplies to the United States. His threats came in response to a drive by Exxon Mobil to seize Venezuelan assets through U.S. and European courts in a dispute over the nationalization of its oil ventures in Venezuela.

The impact of the decision on Exxon Mobil was not immediately clear. Both Chavez and Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez previously said the Irving, Texas-based company is no longer welcome to do business in Venezuela.

More:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/12/world/main3823482.shtml?source=RSSattr=World_3823482

[Judi Lynn]

20. Kick!

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[natrat]

21. they took haiti ez-venezuela will be tougher but they will get it done unfortunatly

[Mik T]

29. I doubt it

Venezuela is not approachable by straightforward military means. They are far superior in military might to Iraq-even before the first Gulf War. They have a really formidable little air force. They just contracted with the Russians for a bunch of planes and they also recently acquired a bunch of French Mirage jets. Sure we could bomb them but we would not be able to follow through with ground forces as Venezuela is a jungle. Venezuela could also reach our coastline with a bunch of their jets and bomb some of our southern coastal cities. There would be no way we could shoot them all down before they got here. It would be a lose-lose situation and the US people would never want to pay the price of an attack on their own soil. War with Venezuela will never happen as long as the current strategic situation exists, and there is no reason why it should change.

Even if it were militarily possible, there is also the negative political capital of an attack on Venezuela. No one in South America would do business with us. The only exceptions to that might be Colombia and Peru. It would be a much bigger mess then the US is prepared to deal with.

[unkachuck]

22. kick....

[Dave From Canada]

23. I feel sorry for the people of Venezuela. Chavez is going to deter any foreign investment in that

country for quite a long time.

Invest in Venezuela, and when your business succeeds, we'll seize (steal) your assets. Thank you for shopping at Hugo's, come again!

[praeclarus]

25. render unto Exxon that which is ...

... Exxon's.

Don't them uppity Ve-nu-zoo-ooleans know who owns
the bloody oil?

[Judi Lynn]

26. France's Total still committed to Venezuela

France's Total still committed to Venezuela
Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:54am EST

PARIS, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Venezuela remains part of French oil major Total's (TOTF.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) future strategy despite its oil row with the United States, its chief executive said on Wednesday.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez stopped oil exports to U.S. oil company Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) on Tuesday, escalating a multi-billion dollar fight with the U.S. company two days after threatening to cut off all supplies to America.

"Venezuela remains of course part of the future of Total's development," Total Chief Executive Christophe de Margerie told a press conference on Total's full-year earnings.

Venezuelan state oil company PDVSA this year agreed to pay $834 million to Total to compensate for taking over part of its stake in an oil project as part of a nationalisation drive.

More:
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssEnergyNews/idUSWEB497620080213?rpc=401&

[Mik T]

28. Is this an attempt of CHavez to influence the Presidential election?

I have been to Venezuela and very much enjoy Chavez. He is a brilliant strategist. People that call him a petty dictator and other such insults vastly underestimate him at best and insult him at worst.

A republican business exec friend and I were talking about this and I think that there may be a possibility that CHavez is using his battle with Exxon mobil as an excuse to leverage the 2008 elections in favor of Obama. We figure that if Venezuela cuts off it's gasoline supply to the US it will cause gas and oil prices to soar to up to 5$ a gallon. We guessed it would take about 8 months for the US to reroute their suppliers and fully address the shortage. In the meantime further angst will be directed against the Bush administration as a result- making it sure that the selected democrat will get in. Is it a coincidence that he directed that threat right after they published the info that Obama was leading in delegates and likely to win the nomination?

We see this as Chavez putting his eggs silently in the Obama basket. If Obama wins- he resumes or increases his supply of oil to the US through Citgo, dropping the price back to it's current level or lower. If Obama loses, Chavez looks for other customers to refine his surplus oil. He loses some money but it pretty much works out either way. Chavez has a history of using the resources of his country very effectivly to leverage politics in other countries. Bolivia and Argentina are examples of this. The stock market should be very scared right now.

By the way, the postings on the major news networks are really revving up all of their propaganda machines on this topic. Public radio listed the net oil worth of Venezuela at 24 billion and Al Jezera listed it at 90 billion. I think their figure is closer to the truth.

[Judi Lynn]

32. The movement in Latin America toward unity is wonderful to watch, isn't it?

It has been a long time coming, but they appear to have kept careful notes each step of the way after watching U.S. right-wing Presidents dividing and conquering them, and controlling the entire Hemisphere by getting progressive Presidents eliminated and replacing them with radical, murderous right-wing dictators.

All the ideas these countries are implementing which you've mentioned are breath-taking. Some DU'ers have read that whereas the World Bank and the IMF used to make almost all their profits from Latin America, in the last years their income from these countries has trickled away to almost NOTHING.

Starting the Bank of the South is fantastic, and I hope there is NOTHING _Bush can do to destabilize any part of their progress up to now, or in the future.

Their new levels of trade within their region should really bring vital, life-saving changes. Just yesterday, saw Venezuela will be trading oil with Argentina for beef and flour, an arrangement both countries dearly need.

It's REALLY time the big bully buttinskis in Washington got out of the road, and pulled their gigantic, round noses out of the private affairs of Latin America. They wore out their "welcome" a long, LONG time ago.

You may remember seeing photos of how happy Venezuelans were to see Nixon's limosine and entourage cruising down their streets back when he was a Vice-President to Eisenhower, around 1958. These photos were carried in all the news magazines at the time:





People had no idea why people hated him. Looks as if our corporate media were doing the same bang-up job of helping Americans stay informed as they have been doing for us!

[Mik T]

34. I saw Chavez speak twice...

It was just like Star-wars, LOL. The rebels against the Empire. You can't help but root for these very charming and determined underdogs.

Something everyone should understand no matter what their opinion about Chavez personally, is that Venezuela is a socialist democracy, not a dictatorship- far less so in fact then the US, where Bush barely won the elections and they were declared problematic by international authorities. In the last election Chavez got over 60% of the vote in an election certified fair by the UN and the Carter center.

Chavez spoke for the World Social Forum in a soccer stadium, and while we were waiting for him to come on people in the audience played skin drums and danced. The unarmed soldiers all were busy passing out water and sandwiches to people. Instead of a big bare podium with an eagle clutching the world in it's talons in the background, they had piles of tropical fruit everywhere draping the podium. Noone wore a suit. He had about 20 of his advisers with him AND Cindy Sheehan whom he called Senora Esperanza- Miss Hope- was there. When the Children's Orchestra came out their lead violin had purple hair and one of the boys in the choir sang from a wheelchair.

Venezuela is so obviously not a dictatorship or a police state. When I went into the stadium the security guards refused to let me go through the metal detector (I was 6 months pregnant) and they would not even pat me down. (Everyone treats you with a lot of respect when you are pregnant in Venezuela-it was a big shock coming back to the US, let me tell you)

WHen I attended a demonstration of 50,000 in the streets of Caracas, I saw NO police with arms ready. There were a few guys in soldiers uniforms around but their kalashnikov rifles were broken down. (They fold in half for easier carrying when not in use) Everywhere I went there was a lack of police. If you contrast this with the police and national guard presence in DC when I went to protest Bush's inauguration or even the antiwar protest at the Boston '04 democratic convention- the US looks a lot more like a police state.

I looked around the place at everyone drumming and dancing and singing in the aisles and I was struck with this sense that these people indeed were the hope of the world, and they were the only thing standing the US corporatocracy and the domination of the rest of the planet. I can't explain it because it was an ephemeral sense. I knew I was watching the beginning of something great and when I came home I figured I might just be witnessing the beginning of the end of something terrible in my own government.

Over the years and the growing enviornmental disasters, I have become more and more convinced that some form of socialized society is the only way the world can go forward and still survive. Planetary resources are finite and if we allow unchecked capitalist greed, we will destroy the planet. It's just a matter of time.

I think we can learn alot from the Latin American model of struggle for economic and social justice and the fair and generous use of their own natural resources. I think that we had better start recognizing corporate propaganda for what it is and start working towards a similar model if we actually do want a future for our children and their children.

[Judi Lynn]

37. Your comments are compelling, considering they contradict ravings from simple right-wingers

who've taken the time from their important days to infest this Democratic message board from time to time.

It's so great hearing your enthusiasm, your positive observations. We can use SO MUCH MORE information on Venezuela, far beyond the crap coming at us from the corporate media 24/7.

If you go to the internet to look for news you will see the same words used over and over and over. When the Exxon thing started ENDLESS articles, all with different headlines all carried the word THREAT in them. It was amazing. They all use the same slurs, same charges, and they repeat all of them every time they write a new article. Simply astonishing. It's as if they're trying to hypnotize the readers. A-holes!

[Robbien]

40. Nice to read a first hand description of Venezuelan rallies

Funny, all the US papers have to do is say that there are demonstrations in the streets of Venezuela, and automatically police in riot gear comes to the mind of almost every American. The papers don't even have to lie about it anymore. They already have most of the US populace brainwashed.

And I agree, as you say, Venezuela is a great model for economic and social justice. I expect that is the reason they are considered to be a threat by the US admin.

Thanks for your summary of the colorful Venezuelan demonstrations.

[Mik T]

31. The Venezuelan Perspective from venezuelanalysis.com

It's a pretty good website if you want to learn what the Venezuelan government thinks about what is going on. I figure with all of the opposition propaganda this might help balance things a bit


(venezuelanalysis.com) - Venezuela's state oil firm PDVSA issued a statement today, in which it said that it was freezing all its business dealings with ExxonMobil, in retaliation for the company's hostile actions in the dispute over compensation for a recently nationalized oil joint venture.

This move comes shortly after PDVSA instructed its traders yesterday to deposit oil receipts with UBS bank in Switzerland in a move to protect its assets. These decisions came days after Exxon announced it had won a series of temporary court orders in Britain, the Netherlands, and the Dutch Antilles, freezing up to $12 billion in PDVSA assets.

As part of a drive to recuperate oil sovereignty in May last year, the Venezuelan government required six major oil companies to hand over equity stakes of 60% or more in four important joint-venture exploration projects in the Orinoco oil belt. U.S.-based Chevron Corp., France's Total, Britain's BP PLC, and Norway's Statoil negotiated deals with Venezuela to remain on as minority partners. However ExxonMobil, along with U.S.-based ConocoPhillips, rejected the terms and its 41.7 percent stake in the Cerro Negro project was subsequently nationalized with an offer for compensation.

ExxonMobil then rejected Venezuela's offer for compenstation and sought arbitration in the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, (ICSID - a World Bank tribunal), in September.

ConocoPhillips, which has also filed for arbitration, said it remains in "amicable" talks with PDVSA.

As the $12 billion in frozen PDVSA assets far exceeds Exxon's $750 million investment in the project at the time it was nationalized, the move by the U.S oil company appears as an agressive legal tactic to pressure the Venezuelan goverment to agree to it's terms.

Venezuela's Energy Minister, Rafael Ramirez, argued that by soliciting the separate court orders ExxonMobil has violated the pre-existing arbitration proceedings in the ICSID, and said that PDVSA is evaluating the possibility of suing the U.S. oil company for damages resulting from it's legal action, which, among other things, caused Venezuela's dollar denominated bonds to experience their sharpest drop in six months.

Ramírez added that the legal actions of ExxonMobil were clearly linked the the U.S. government's policy towards Venezuela, which, President Hugo Chavez said on Sunday, involves a strategy of social and economic destabilisation to oust his government.

The Federal Court in NewYork will hold a hearing on Wednesday over an earlier injunction, solicited by Exxon in January, which froze $300 million of PDVSA funds in a U.S bank account. Exxon claims the court injunctions are necessary to secure compensation if it wins the arbitration case.

However, Patrick Esteruelas, of the Eurasia Group in New York said for the injunctions to be upheld Exxon would "probably have to prove that PDVSA has no intention of compensating them."
In contrast, PDVSA has consistently indicated it would negotiate compensation "at a fair price" and is likely to argue on Wednesday that the injunctions are unnecessary because it has paid out partners in previous disputes - in January, PDVSA agreed to pay compensation of close to $1 billion to Total and Statoil, for the partial nationalization of their holdings.

If PDVSA wins its appeal on Wednesday it could potentially help to overturn the British and Dutch court rulings scheduled for later this month.

President Chavez threatened to cut off supplies to the U.S. if PDVSA's assets remained frozen, causing oil prices to spike at almost $95 a barrel on Monday. However, many analysts haved argued the Venezuelan economy is too dependent on income from U.S. oil sales to cut off supplies.

Roger Tissot, an energy consultant based in Canada pointed out that a 2002-03 shutdown by managers at PDVSA, the state oil company, practically cut off oil exports to the United States. While "U.S. consumers saw gas prices rise a few cents for a time, the strike nearly caused the collapse of Venezuela's economy," he said.

Venezuela supplies about 10 percent of U.S. oil imports, accounting for 65 percent of Venezuela's income from oil exports, which in turn account for almost 90 percent of total exports. PDVSA is the key source of funds for the government's social projects that provide free education and healthcare for the poor.

Conversely, in a statement released today, Robbie Diamond, President of the Securing America's Future Energy (SAFE) lobby group, said Chavez's threat emphasizes "the precarious nature of our energy security."

"With global spare oil production capacity as narrow as it is, any threat by a major supplier has the potential for causing immediate and significant fluctuations in the price of oil worldwide, with tremendous economic implications for the United States," he added.

Others have pointed out that while the U.S. could source oil from other countries, PDVSA is particularly reliant on its U.S. refining subsidiary, Houston's Citgo Petroleum Corp., to process the country's heavy crude, which is more difficult and expensive to process than lighter crudes.

However, Ramirez assured that Venezuela is ready to cut supplies immediately if necessary and is working with China to construct three oil refineries capable of processing 800,000 barrels of Venezuelan heavy crude per day.

[Judi Lynn]

33. Exxon claim is fraction of asset freeze: Venezuela

Exxon claim is fraction of asset freeze: Venezuela
Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:52pm EST

By Brian Ellsworth

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela minimized the compensation it owes Exxon Mobil Corp for an oil project on Thursday, the latest volley in hard-ball negotiations that have prompted a threat to stop sending America oil.

Energy Minister Rafael Ramirez said a crude project seized from Exxon (XOM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) was worth less than $1.2 billion -- a fraction of the $12 billion in Venezuelan assets frozen by court orders the U.S. giant won last week.

"What we estimate is a tiny number compared to what they are trying for with the asset freeze," he said. "It doesn't even reach 10 percent of that."

President Hugo Chavez reacted angrily to Exxon's legal offensive, which he calls "imperial." Last week, he threatened to stop sending oil to the United States and days later Venezuela, America's No. 4 oil supplier, cut off its supplies to Exxon.

But Ramirez said some oil was still going to the Chalmette refinery in Louisiana, a joint venture between Exxon and Venezuela's state oil company PDVSA.

More:
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN1446608120080214?rpc=401&

[Mik T]

35. LOL I was just about to bring this up....

Venezuelanalysis says 750 million, Anyway, it's wierd because that would be like someone taking your entire 100,000.00 house to pay off your 10,000.00 student loan. What right do they have to freeze all of those assets anyway? I smell a rat. A big stinky rat, with an Exxon-Mobil logo on it.

[Judi Lynn]

36. I saw the figure you mention also, yesterday, or so.

Yeah, I have heard that the amount involved is far, FAR smaller.

Looks as if the oil company is trying to flex its muscle, to wield all the power it can command. This is truly strange.

[Mik T]

38. Looks like we need to find out a little more detail about these courts.

How do you go and freeze that much of a countries assets? On what authority? Who is REALLY behind this? Who are the players involved?

Let's do a little research about the judges etc.

[Judi Lynn]

39. We'll post anything we find on this! Gotta run for some time, back later tonight.

It's tremendous seeing a bright, INFORMED person among us watching this situation.

Be back later. Glad you joined D.U.

[Mik T]

41. Holy Sh*t, It's like a court inside a kangaroo!!

http://icsid.worldbank.org/ICSID/FrontServlet?requestType=CasesRH&actionVal=ShowHome&pageName=AboutICSID_Home

ISCID are the people who are judging this case. There are 155 member states signing on to ISCID. I tried to get a member state list and couldn't. I think it might be confidential. ISCID is part of WorldBank, which is formerly run by Paul Wolfawitz. It's a neoliberal organization. Need I say more? This is an evil mess. No wonder Chavez is not happy and feels like it's war. It is- it's economic war. That's half of Venezuela's GDP they are freezing!!(stealing actually) This has got to be stopped!! We, the people of the US will gain nothing from this act except 5$ gas. We really need to remember that the interests of oil companies are diametrically opposed to our owm interests in most ways.

Now lets find out who is on the board of, or owns huge stocks in, exxon-mobil, so we know exactly who is behind this and who is gaining from it.

Stay tuned for part 2...

[Mik T]

42. Countries leaving ISCID

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2007/05/09/bolivia-exits-icsid-endangers-global-direct-investment

A lot of south american countries are leaving ISCID. It began last month with Bolivia. They are pretty much a legal strong arm organization of the neo-liberals. I think it's actually the authority of this court itself that was brought into question.

[Judi Lynn]

43. Great! It's so obvious to people who've started getting informed on US/Latin American relations that

agreements obligating the entire countries were made, back when the U.S. had found a way to dominate them, and control their leaders, and the U.S.-directed Presidents, dictators, etc. arranged agreements which brought THEM wealth, to be paid off by taxes on their suffering masses. Truly nasty business.

Anyone can see only the interests of US investing corporations were generally served for decades, and decades, at the horrendous expense and depletion of the national welfare in these countries. I can't wait until more people start diving into the histories, now that the information is so very easy to find, and getting educated on what has been going on.

An educated citizenry will not be as easy to bend through shabby lies designed to inflame the emotions of the truly stupid! With any luck at all, the we might just start progressing here, too. You can always hope!

Really glad you have been watching these events so closely. You can really shine a light for those who still don't "get it" that they've been manipulated, programmed ALL their lives through the mass media and need to wake the #### UP!