Many Obstacles to Digital TV Reception, Study Says

[FreeStateDemocrat]

Source: NY Times

Many Obstacles to Digital TV Reception, Study Says
By ROY FURCHGOTT
Published: February 11, 2008
Nearly six million people with digital receivers may still lose TV signals when digital-only broadcasts begin next February, a new study says.

The study by Centris, a market research firm in Los Angeles, found gaps in broadcast signals that may leave an estimated 5.9 million TV sets unable to receive as many channels as they did before the changeover. It may affect even those who bought the government-approved converter boxes or a new digital TV. To keep broadcast reception, many viewers may have to buy new outdoor antennas, the study found.

The Centris study predicts greater disruption of service than government agencies like the Federal Communications Commission have acknowledged.

The federal government estimates that 21 million American households have primary TV sets that receive only over-the-air signals. But it says most will continue to get a digital signal by means of a digital-to-analog converter box, which costs about $50 to $70. It is helping to underwrite the cost of a converter box by issuing $40 coupons.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/technology/11analog.html?ref=technology

---

Now we know why they waited until 2009, an off year for elections. Corporate America wins again and the government screws the working class again.

[tridim]

1. Digital TV and especially HD Digital TV is really nice

I just wish they were'nt forcing it on everyone. Basic converter boxes should be 100% free.

[Benhurst]

3. HDTV: Same old crap, sharper picture. NT

[tridim]

4. I'd agree if it weren't for The Science Channel HD, Discovery HD and National Geographic HD.

I watch those three channels about 95% of the time.

[Wilms]

5. As the story title indicated, there's a problem with reception of over the air broadcast.

It's not suggesting a problem with digital video, just the ability of digital RECEIVERS to pick the signal off the air in a usable form.

It's remains a hurdle despite years of trying to, or saying they're trying to, deal with it.

[tridim]

6. Yea, I understand that.

IMO, they should have just quit sending the signals over the air and put everything on a "public" cable that will carry all the basic channels at no cost. I'm currently paying about $6.00 for my local channels on Dish, that doesn't really seem fair. I'm certainly not going to put another ugly antenna on my roof.

[MikeDuffy]

9. You might be able to receive adequate digital reception w/ indoor antenna.

I have used two of the STBs (short for Digital to Analog Set Top Box), Magnavox TB100MW9 ($50) and Insignia NS-DXA1 ($60), and both worked pretty well with an inexpensive indoor antenna in one location located on a hill, and somewhat worse with a more expensive indoor antenna in a second location located in a bit of a valley. With $40 coupons the STBs would be $10 and $20 respectively. The Sling (Echostar) TR-40 (available in March) will be $40, free (except for taxes?) with the coupon. I did the early research because I am aiming to set up a Dish Network system and I wanted to save the $6 a month local channel charge (also wanted to be able to use the smaller round dish rather than the larger oval dish that I understand that local channel support requires).

[karlrschneider]

17. The large dish is for HD, has nothing to do with local channels.

:D

[MikeDuffy]

24. You may very well be correct now

but I was told by a local installer about a year ago who was about to (not as it turned out) install a dish at a house that the larger dish was required at that location if local channels were desired. There was no request for HD service then so I don't know if that also would have required the larger dish. My understanding was that the wider dish allowed for reception from more than one satellite (or possibly multiple satellites that were too far apart for reception from the smaller circular dish). The installer said (and he may have been incorrect or the situation has changed) that the smaller dish could be installed on the garage roof (where the owner preferred), but that due to wind resistance the larger dish needed to be mounted on a ~6 foot pool extending from the ground (where the owner did not like due to aesthetic reasons). At that time low cost digital to analog tuners were not available, but as of this month they are so the owner is reconsidering Dish Network installation in the near future (now that I have established reception there using such tuners is good enough w/ inexpensive indoor antennas).

In any case thanks for your input! BTW does anyone know if there is likely to be a government mandate (or a Comcast internal decision) to cutoff all (or all but analog channels 3 and 4) cable and satellite analog TV transmission within a few years?

[mwooldri]

26. Satellite's gone all digital anyways.

DirecTV and Dish are all digital. The vast majority of channels on C-Band satellite are also in digital, so there's no "analog" problem with satellite.

As for cable... it'd be up to the cable companies to decide this. I see this as a way for the cable companies to force set-top boxes for each and every TV in the house so that analog cable can be discontinued. Because cable and satellite have excellent penetration in the United States, there would be many more homes to switch over than the homes that are receiving just the basic Over The Air channels. It's because something like 80-85% of the population have satellite or cable that the government can get away with switching like they are and not having much of an uproar about it.

Mark.

[Hyper_Eye]

28. I still get CNN in analog on C-Band

People think digital is so great (and for HD it is) but analog on a good C-Band dish is superb. Compressed digital channels can't touch it. Granted, a lot of the digital on C-Band uses a decent compression that results in a good picture but all the re-uplinked channels are getting squished into a couple transponders and they are getting pretty lossy. I am talking about the NPS uplinks on G9 and such. But, it still doesn't compare to the compression of a pizza dish. They hammer so many channels into a single sat that it is ridiculous. I also laugh when I see it barely raining and my neighbors pizza is out. I have had perfect service on my C-Band in a hurricane. No joke. No amount of rain or clouds has ever disrupted my C-Band (and 4dtv ku-band) service.

Anyway, people here are talking about the DirecTV HD antennas being too big. I have a 7.5' dish and I wouldn't mind moving up to a 10 footer!

[karlrschneider]

48. How are you descrambling? I still have my old 10 foot dish with a pretty good low-temp c/ku

LnB that we're leaving to rot...the old receiver died and we pretty much gave up on it. I could bring it back to life
with a little bit of work but didn't think it'd be worth it...?

[Hyper_Eye]

50. DCII and 4DTV is alive and hanging on

There are only a couple subscriber analog channels left. CNN and TNT are the only ones I subscribe to. They come in on DCII. The way to get any real content is with a 4DTV digital receiver. There is content on both the C-Band and KU side for good prices and the quality is really good. There are actually more channels up there now then there ever has been and they are all in digital. The problem is that you have to get the 4DTV receiver if you don't have one. They go for pretty fair prices on ebay (which is where I got mine) and they can also be had for decent prices in combination with a service package with NPS, NPS resellers, or Skyvision. I purchase my programming from www.satelliteprogramming.com.

You will need a decent C-Band LNB to lock in digital on the c-band side and a good ku lnb with a fine-mesh or solid dish to lock in the digitals on KU.

[onenote]

36. satellite is all digital and cable will be in a few years

DirecTV and Dish are all digital -- and you need a box to get their service. AT&T and Verizon FioS also are all digital. Cable systems are in the process of transitioning their systems to all digital. You may or may not need a box to get digital cable depending on what level of service you purchase and whether you have purchased a new television with a digital cable ready tuner built in. Eventually, the notion is for digital cable set top boxes to be available for purchase from electronics retailers, not just leased from cable operators. But so far that market hasn't developed. The main reason that cable operators will transition to digital is because it is hugely more bandwidth efficient. The same amount of bandwidth devoted to a single analog channel can be used for 3 digital HDTV channels and as many as 15 standard definition digital channels. Reclaiming bandwidth also allows cable operators to increase the speed of their high speed data services. Ultimately, in order to compete with satellite and the telephone company video services, cable operators have to convert to all digital and/or switched digital video.

[LiberalFighter]

27. I have HDTV and reception in most cases is good BUT

there are times I get blackouts for about 30 seconds sometimes longer. Sometimes it is the wind. And I am about 5-7 miles from the tv station antennas. I use one of those antennas that is suppose to work in the attic and have it installed just under the eave outside. When it goes on the fritz I switch to the cable station. I figure to get nearly uninterrupted signal I will have to get one of those on the roof type antenna.

I do like the multi-casting part of it. And I redid the programming via my cable and was surprised to see it do the multi-casting channels and I only have cable connection without a box.

[LiberalHeart]

29. I had that problem, too -- and got this on Amazon.com...

It's made for outdoors, but can be used indoors (which is where I use it):
Antennas DB2 Direct Multi Directional HDTV Antenna

The reviews were good so I gave it a try and haven't had any drop outs since installing it. I have it pretty well hidden by plants so it's not an eyesore. Reception is great. I don't need to adjust it at all; get several over-the-air channels.

[LiberalFighter]

44. I will have to check that one out and see how it works. Thanks

[Occulus]

10. Case in point: my mom's place.

She can get HD over the air, but you have to go outside and physically rotate the antenna to get a good, uninterrupted picture. If you lose part of the signal, you lose the picture; it freezes completely until you manage to correctly position the antenna.

Yes, it's a PITA.

[tridim]

11. Wow, that sucks.

People wont put up with that for long.

[LTR]

7. The whole world is converting to DTV

It's not just a U.S. thing. Much of Europe has already shut down or plans to shut down the analog spectrum. Within 10-20 years, most of the planet will shut down analog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_television_deployments_by_country

DTV is much more efficient overall than analog waves, and frees up some of the spectrum for other uses. And no, DTV and HDTV are not the same thing, though HDTV is an available component of DTV.

The problem with coverage gaps can easily be remedied by low-power translator signals. This is already being done in rural areas.

As for the shut-down, I'm in favor of it, so long as the populace is ready and well-informed. As for the converter boxes, if you still receive OTA signals on an old TV set, you can request up to two $40 vouchers from the government. I requested two, and if need be will give one of them away to someone who might need it. Converter boxes will vary between $40-70 (the entry level one will hence be free), and should be available within weeks. They're already being advertised on some retailers' web sites.

http://www.dtv2009.com

An advantage to the converter box is the ability to better receive channels, minus most static or ghosting. Viewers can also pick up side channels (i.e. PBS stations often have several, most NBC affiliates air 24/7 weather, some rural stations are picking up secondary network affiliations like FOX and CW, etc.). And some of the TV broadcast spectrum (chs. 53-69 and probably some of the low VHF, which is not well-suited for DTV, eventually), will be auctioned off for other uses (WiMax, perhaps?). Most of the current cell phone spectrum came from the early 80s, when chs. 70-83 were reallocated.

In the long run, the DTV switchover will be a win-win for all.

[mwooldri]

20. True but not the same broadcast standard...

Europe and most rest of the world are going on some variation of DVB, North America is going with ATSC. ATSC is more prone to multipath interference (on analog TV we'd call it ghosting, where you're seeing a shadow of the picture behind the actual picture itself) and as such it can be harder to get a picture in built-up areas - especially in fringe areas, and viewing ATSC on the move is practically impossible under the current ATSC standard. ATSC also doesn't have the ability to have a single frequency network - but this doesn't matter too much in the US market where there are lots of local TV channels and no nationally owned-and-operated network (in UK BBC, ITV, Channel 4 & 5 operate a national network with local opt-outs. USA has local TV with network opt-in).

One reason why ATSC was chosen is because it works great in rural areas and offers better rural fringe coverage than DVB. ATSC has been tweaked, and newer generation receivers are not as prone to multipath interference compared to the first generation receivers, but still not as good as DBV.

One good thing is that the USA (still lagging behind Japan though, who are already experimenting with ultra-high definition tv) started out with a standard that offers high definition TV. Europe's DVB standard is for standard-definition TV, and will have to roll out additional equipment to view High Definition programming. Right now there's no space there to do it until they turn off analog so the only way Europeans are going to get high definition TV right away is to go to satellite or cable.

Mark.

[ben_meyers]

12. No kidding

And I want a free 8 track player and Polaroid film too!

[tridim]

13. I don't think it's a problem getting 8-Track players for free

But you might have to pay a buck or two for a good one. :)

Can't help you with the film. That stuff is dead for a good reason, it was horribly wasteful and took crappy pictures.

[The Croquist]

18. Basic converter boxes should not be free

There is no right to free TV.

[karlrschneider]

19. Too many mallets to the head?

:shrug:

[tanyev]

25. Gotta keep the bread and circuses flowing.

[NashVegas]

40. LOL

The airwaves are universal public properties the government is now privatizing and selling off to the highest bidder, while televised communications are moved to a band more difficult for the public to access. The move to digital is all about a move to control information.

Peace.

[The Croquist]

46. Maybe we should by everyone a giant screen HDTV while were at it.

After all "The airwaves are universal public properties"

The airwaves are public property but that doesn't mean that the government needs to provide you free access to them. Water is public property too but that doesn't mean that I can force the government owned utility to put a pipeline down my 800 foot driveway for free.

[tridim]

2. self delete dupe

[karlrschneider]

8. Probably a little hysteria there. My partner installs HDTVs every day and rarely finds

them unable to get any digital channels corresponding to the analog ones people are accustomed to receiving. And that's mostly out here in the hills pretty far from transmitters.

[aquart]

14. It isn't a win if those commercials don't reach those homes.

It's a disaster.

Can't wait till Nielsen reports back.

[miles 2 go]

15. Here's something I've been wanting to know about this...

Sorry to get off topic but I was wondering if u have cable connectors inside the house but no cable tv, could you hook up an outdoor antenna to the outdoor cable connection and use the indoor connectors to connect it to your tv's?

[karlrschneider]

16. Yes, no or maybe. sorry...it depends

It depends on whether and/or how the cable 'connectors' are actually 'connected'! I know that sounds dumb, but there are many different ways those can be wired up. If they were put in when the house was built, they MAY all go to a 'dead end' somewhere like in the attic and not have any common connection. If they all go to some common connection point, you can do what you were asking about. ;-)

[miles 2 go]

45. thank you

will have to track them down to see where they go.
thanks much

[L0oniX]

21. Gee I wonder who has stock in the company that makes those converters?

I can guess.

[onenote]

34. I do.

[Orsino]

22. You mean they didn't didn't have a plan to win the peace?

Imagine that.

[winston61]

23. Oh goody,

A shiny new valve on the same old sewage pump. Now we can count the wrinkles on Granny Clampets face and see the veins in Colberts eyeballs. Look Mommy, high definition turds on the TV!

[Skittles]

32. funny what people are impressed with, eh winston?

I don't do ANYTHING that would encourage me to watch more TV :thumbsdown:

[scarface2004]

30. for over the air HD try a little terk antenna

works great, indoors, very small, hooks directly to antenna input. drawback - only pulls local, but its still great for $30-40

[Radio_Lady]

31. Our Secondary Audio Programming is going away at KOPB in Portland, OR.

We currently have the audio service streaming on the Internet and HD Radio (requires another little box and it may very well go the way of AM STEREO -- zilch listeners? HD Radio only covers the city of Portland).

There is a history here of using that channel for a radio reading service to blind, homebound, nursing home, disabled and senior citizens. It's a 24/7 service that is also streamed on the Internet. BUT there is no advertising for it and the volunteers are using equipment from the 1980s.

It has been intimated that several staffers, some of whom are disabled, will be gone without so much as a fair-the-well. Right now, 100 volunteers are putting in 10,000 hours (I guess that's a yearly figure... I don't remember), but it's all "unable to be funded" in the new system.

How the hell can we get people listening? Easy. Regular interviews with call in telephone interfaced with Internet broadcasting and FINANCIALLY SUPPORTED BY A STATION THAT BRINGS IN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PLEDGE DRIVES?

Read about it here: http://www.opb.org/accessinfonet

[mwb970]

33. How much better does television need to be, anyway?

In the old days, we invented all kinds of brand new stuff: cameras, cars, radio, TV, computers. Now, all we seem to invent is endless refinements on these same basic items. At some point, the product is already so good that more refinement produces little benefit. Fancier and fancier TVs, fancier and fancier cameras, etc., but is this stuff now too good?

For example, modern audio equipment can reduce harmonic distortion to well below 0.01%. Trouble is, 99% of the public cannot detect even 1% distortion, a level we passed many, many years ago. But the newest equipment has even lower distortion than last year's! Buy now.

The things I watch on television look perfectly good on a plain old color-CRT TV. People who need to have movie theaters in their homes obviously require higher quality than this, but at some point the refinements will surpass even these viewers' ability to detect them (or to afford them), as happened with the audio gear.

Too bad all the best basic stuff is already invented. About all that's left is telepathy, instant transport, and time travel. Until then, (sigh) we have our 1080p HDTVs! With 0.0001% audio distortion!

[trotsky]

35. Well, it's not so much the improvement in technology, you know.

But more the ability to free up the massive amount of signal bandwidth currently reserved for broadcast TV. Lots of uses for that.

[mwb970]

37. The reduction in bandwidth is indeed a positive outcome of digital broadcast TV.

This is, though, separate from the question of "quality overkill" I wrote about. And, it is not without its tradeoffs.

The bandwidth dividend applies to over-the-airwaves, antenna-based television reception. With standard TV, if you live in a fringe area, or if your antenna and TV are not set up quite right, you will get a degraded but still viewable picture. Digital TV, in contrast, does not "degrade gracefully". You either get a perfect picture or nothing, and if everything isn't just right all down the line, you may well get nothing. Time to buy and install a new antenna!

Digital over-the-air TV also does not respond to interference the way that standard analog TV does. If someone starts up a vaccum cleaner nearby, or a low-flying airplane goes over, an analog set will show noise lines or ghosting, respectively, superimposed on the picture. Under the same conditions, a digital set will likely simply freeze, display "garbage", or go blank.

The prospect of corporations using the freed-up bandwidth to increase their profits while we the people deal with the negative tradeoffs bothers me. Sure, some of the new bandwidth will be used for public service (assuming the corporations will allow it), but city governments don't always use public-service technology all that well (see Giuliani, Rudy).

[trotsky]

38. Very true.

I don't envy the folks who will be in the outer reaches for digital signals, and it's too bad the treasury won't get the FULL value of that bandwidth when they auction it off. Just another giveaway to the megacorps.

[Felix Mala]

39. The last incompetent gasp of the most incompetent administration...

I'm sure all those hired at the FCC got high marks from the Hudson Institute.

[Radio_Lady]

41. Oh, I love that stretched graphic! May I copy it and send it to some TV people I know?

Feles Mala, ummm -- muchas gracias?

Pleased to meetcha on the DU. Do you come here often?

Cordially,

Radio Lady in Oregon

[LTR]

42. I wouldn't blame it on him

This has been in the works since the '90s.

As I said, it's not just a U.S. thing. Most of the world is moving toward DTV.

[comtec]

43. Why not give away broadcast rights for the old frequencies on analog?

IIRC the Digital frequencies, are way up in the Ghz band, where analog TV is way down in the sub 100Mhz (to start).
Isn't DVB-T (over the air waves).... sorry the US equivalent, on completely separate frequencies?
It would make sense (I know I'm crazy) to then free up these frequencies for hobbyists and public TV!
After all, WE OWN THESE AIRWAVES GOD DAMNED IT!

[LTR]

47. Not sure if anything's set in stone for the lower VHF

Some stations are still slated to broadcast in the 2-6 range, though that may have changed since station engineers may have come to their senses since. It looks like the FCC will reserve ch. 6 for FM broadcasting, since it does interfere somewhat with it. There's currently a sizable number of new applications for non-commercial frequencies in areas where there is currently an analog ch. 6.

Most stations will move to new channels (mostly to UHF), but thanks to 'virtual mapping' will still dial to their current channel positions on newer digital TVs and converter boxes. So, a station currently on, say ch. 4 will still be there, virtually.

After the switchover, chs. 7-13 will still host DTV channels. Chs. 2-6 are not very good for digital, and eventually, stations will pull out of there. LPTV will still be allowed to broadcast analog for a while after the switchover (I noticed ch. 6 in New York just debuted a 'radio station' format yesterday, promoting it as 87.7 FM). The high UHF frequencies that will be deleted from TV are currently being auctioned off, with some of the big telecoms drooling over them (new wireless services?).

Whatever becomes of lo-VHF will take a while to sort out.

[devilgrrl]

49. This sounds just like the 'Year 2k' hubbub...

a heaping pile of bullshit, specifically designed to get people to spend more money on shit that they don't need.