Dean urges a different direction from Clinton

[robbedvoter]

Dean urges a different direction from Clinton
By Susan Page, USA TODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/
DES MOINES — The battle among Democrats that begins with the Iowa caucuses on Monday will determine more than the identity of the party's presidential nominee. Also at stake are the identity of the party and the legacy of the last Democrat to win the White House.


"Bill Clinton was a master politician ... but that was a different time," former Vermont governor Howard Dean told supporters gathered at an Indianola, Iowa, winery the other day. Republican leaders have become more conservative, he said, and Clinton's philosophy of governing from the middle is no longer the right thing to do. "I think this is a time to fight," Dean said.

For his more moderate rivals, Dean's combativeness raises the specter of the landslide losses the party suffered in 1972 and 1984.

"I have no idea" why Democrats would move away from Clinton's approach to the economy and other issues, retired general Wesley Clark said in an interview. "They work."more

[blm]

1. Great reply from Clark.

.

[cprise]

20. Clark comes out of the closet (DLC Belgian Liberal)

And you can expect more of the same if this corporate lobbyist is elected:

* Meek Dascale-esque responses to Republican attacks

* Pushing Right-wing economic policy ("Congress made me do it")

* A reverence for corporate media that extends to deregulation and monopolies. Yet more power to brainwash the population.

* Peace and love for all nations (* except if you resist having your water and energy rights taken over by American corporations, then you are an enemy of "freedom")

* War on 'Welfare Queens'

* More anti-gay legislation ("Congress MADE me sign DOMA...")

* Involvement in Congressional elections results in more Right-winger Democrats (again: "Congress made me do it!" )

* Etc. etc.

[Guaranteed]

25. Yeah, let's not fight.

Let's roll over and repeat the 2002 election. Great idea.

[realdem]

2. Dean is Absolutely right.

You cannot win this election against an energized Repug base with a right of center Dem message. It will not energize our base.

[bushisanidiot]

3. Dean Has Refreshing New Ideas and Does NOT Claim That Clinton Was Wrong On

everything. We aren't repukes. We don't all follow the leader off the cliff and ask the voters to check their brains at the door at their polling place.

The Dean Train's Goin' All The Way, Baby!


Also, is this editorial really late breaking news?

[artr2]

4. Lousy response from Clark

but this what I would expect from clark. He's the candidate from the DLC and 3 mo old democrat. Talked into running by bill clinton, what do you think he would say. The time is to fight for our country. Clark is the big money candidate so if either bush or clark win, so does big money. They can't lose


Clark = Bush

[BeyondGeography]

9. Dean wants Clinton's tax structure

and Clinton's economy. He has said it repeatedly. How does that fit with "we need to move in a different direction from Clinton"? Another example of Dean's lack of clarity, which isn't helping him with a lot of us.

Clark's tax plan is to the left of Dean AND anything Clinton ever proposed. Clark = Bush. Right.

[cprise]

21. Media deregulation didn't produce Clinton's economy

Although it did produce the Bush junta.

And tell me what NAFTA had to do with the .com bubble? (hint: nothing)

America doesn't need THAT kind of corporate power to balance its budget and prosper.

[lark]

35. Nobody is as bad as Bush and his gang

NOBODY!!

While I do distrust Clark, do not equate him with the emperor of evil.
This is how Democrats destroy themselves while Repugs pick up the pieces.

lark

[NewYorkerfromMass]

5. Dean wakes up and decides to write off the middle?

Despite having lived there for 10 years? Wes, I have no idea either.

[cprise]

23. Twisted definition of 'middle'?

Economically there was nothing 'middle' about Clinton. The healthcare initiative was a dog and pony show to keep liberals occupied. Beyond that, he was about corporate whoring.

Clinton was Right-wing and now that he legitimized corporate power as the answer to everything, we are getting a taste of Hard-Right.

Even if he was the 'middle', compromising between Center and Hard Right gives us an end result of Center Right.

This suits the DLC because they do not identify with your heros; they identify with Ronald Reagan. They respond to conservative ideas more than liberal, and even the conservative social agenda doesn't particularly frighten them (this is something that CMB has apparently recognized).

There is no 'middle', just a party devoted to half-measures and a profitable coexistence with crooks.

[Guaranteed]

26. No...not write them off. LEAD them.

It's about LEADERSHIP, NYFM.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. governing from the middle is no longer the right thing to do

But Dean did that in Vt. Another case of the guv. trying to remove a too well fitting shoe.

[PassingFair]

6. "I think this is a time to fight"

Anyone here, after 3 years of suffering through this Neo-Con nightmare, who does not see the truth of this statement, is downright unclear about what's at stake with this election.

Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt and Lieberman all rolled over. Why? 163 others didn't.
Kerry said in a Truthout interview with Will Pitt that he had been shown "evidence" of Saddam's WMD. Isn't it a crime to LIE to members of Congress? Why isn't he pushing for legal action? Gephardt stood over *'s shoulder and smiled as he signed papers that sold our country and our freedoms down the river. Lieberman personally crafted language and programs designed to smash the wall of separation of church and state to smithereens.
Republican lobbyist Clark didn't decide until a month or so ago that he even WAS a democrat.
From the beginning, while hundreds of thousands of us watched our TV and computer screens for some sign of sanity in Washington, Dean has stood out from the pack. I must stop here to applaud Kucinich and others whose opposition to Bush & Co. has been unwavering. I hope Dean launches a Department of Peace, and I hope Kucinich turns it into the most important aspect of Dean's cabinet...
Dean has raised the bar for democrats in this election, and I, for one, am extemely happy to be able to walk through the arch he has created, rather than having to limbo or hunch my way through the polls this year.
GIVE THEM HELL, HOWARD!

[cthrumatrix]

7. This is goofy --- nobody is like Clinton --- and nobody needs to act like

criticize or defend Clinton.

This is media trash...for the Enquirer

have the media focus on issues!

(and I am for Dean)

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[artr2]

10. And what RW web site did you get that graphic from

and thank you for spreading more right wing propaganda

[PassingFair]

12. Nothing like doing George's dirty work...

and when Clark goes under the waves, where will his erstwhile Republican supporters go? I have enough faith in Clark to believe that he will order them to unseat BushCo., but will his para-military followers find the Dem candidate martial enough?
Huah!

[Danieljay]

22. who needs the right wing?

when the left continues to do your dirty work for you? The attack on Dean from within his own party is absolutely appalling. Personally, I'm a Kucinich supporter, that being said these vicious attacks on each other from within the democratic party will be partly responsible for handing the election to George Bush. One thing is is to disagree about issues, its quite another to smear and trash one another. In my opinion, this is making the entire democratic party look like a bunch of infighting baboons. Can we at least in the primaries debate what we are FOR and not what we are against. Its easy to say what you stand against, what do you stand FOR? Thats why I support Kucinich, win or lose.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

13. Is it any surprise that a Clark supporter would...

post an image from a right wing website?

Yes, I checked out CoxAndForkum.com and I noticed they sell t-shirts. I wonder if you have bought this one yet:



BUSH IN 2004 Branded Donk - Front Design

(Click here for the back version.)

100% Preshrunk Heavyweight Cotton T-Shirt.

Illustrated by Cox & Forkum, this design has been called "a masterpiece on cotton."

Democrats - Watch Your Ass! George W. Bush previews his plans for the '04 elections.

But hey, like I said, from a Clark supporter - BIG SURPRISE!

[cthrumatrix]

14. Hmmm...when Dean mentioned that Clark seemed Republican...oh I see

what he meant.....thanks for the link shoing me how Clark supporters go to pro bush web sites

[cprise]

15. Great that you find far-right sites to useful

...esp. one that is exceedingly anti-muslim.



Well, you might need it if you consider freepers to be the swing vote.


Or perhaps Clark supporters should stick to the corporate, more garden-variety anti-Dean attack mill.

[joeunderdog]

19. Get a grip, will you?

You don't have to be posting BushLover propoganda to support a particular candidate. Dean is not my candidate, either, but we are loading Bush's guns when we smear opposing Dem candidates. The Chimp is just sitting back letting his handlers track which smear job works the best. DON'T HELP HIM.

[RetroLounge]

28. Trolling RW sites much?

Karl Rove thanks you...

[libview]

29. I Love it!!

[Melinda]

31. I alerted your post. Stealing bandwidth is a violation of the rules...

unless you are the owner of that right-wing site. Here's the site for those who would like to see what one Clark supporter apparently likes to read:

http://coxandforkum.com/

Beyond the pale. :puke:


Edited to add DU Rules:

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[not systems]

33. Wow .. Clark slips another notch down because of ...

you.

This and the Clark supporters with Hitler Dean graphic have
ensured I will never ever support that Neo-con plant Clark.

[Fridays Child]

11. To compare this to '72 and '84 is to ignore the totally unprecedented...

... and deadly, hard right, neo-fascist-corporatist ideology of the bushistas.

Am I justifiably angry about it? Damn right.

Am I going to fight? You bet.

[PATRICK]

16. the rub, General Clark

is that the current Republican entrenchment is like no other except the radical Republicans after Lincoln. Clinton barely managed to contain them- or appear to. In governance approach, unless you want even more compromise and gridlock than Clinton is to squash the nonsense and get more Non-Radical Republicans elected. As a governor, Dean knows this better than the others who might think they can float and maneuver above.

The fear is that Dean can't break through the Grand Illusion of the GOP madness. If he can't and no one does, there is no happy bipartisan twilight zone to creep into. There is no Cold War, no substance to the GOP mantras and fears, no actual middle ground, in no little part due to not beating the forces that won 72 and 84 with strong, unified and committed party spirit under a energizing candidate. The irony is that Clark will have to, and he has shown he can in his own way meet that challenge head on.

The middle is the vast majority of decent people now held captive by fraud and lies. All our candidates want to govern from the middle, but govern not ignore the problem.

[PassingFair]

17. Right On, Patrick!

The way I see it, a vote for Dean is a TWOFER. Unseat the Pretender, and flush out the compromised (Global Crossing, anyone?) dems at the same time..
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

[cprise]

30. Global Crossing Democrats!

Or is that double-crossing?

LOL!

[Larkspur]

18. Dean is right and Clark is starting to speak like a "Bush-lite" Deam

Why am I not surprised.

Clark being a faux-Dem would not defend the Party or the principles that most Americans actually support and some of those principles are contrary to Clinton's legacy.

[adamrsilva]

24. This is why Clark will be destroyed

I do not believe he is the easy win his supporters think he is. Far from it.

[Guaranteed]

27. Agreed. nt

[stickdog]

34. Dean is exactly right.

Meanwhile, Clark is center-right.

[Moderator]

36. Dupe... locking

Please continue discussion within the original LBN thread on this topic, which can be found here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=106879&mesg_id=106879

Thanks!

DU Moderator